REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Speaking of guns...

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Monday, February 7, 2011 16:23
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VIEWED: 1902
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Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:46 PM

CANTTAKESKY


...7 year old faces misdemeanor charges for bringing Nerf gun to school.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Cops-Charge-7-Year-Old-
for-Bringing-Toy-Gun-to-Class-115125844.html


Quote:

A 7-year-old child allegedly shot a Nerf-style toy gun in his Hammonton, N.J., school Jan. 18. No one was hurt, but the pint-size softshooter now faces misdemeanor criminal charges.

Hammonton Police began an investigation into the “suspicious activity” at the Hammonton Early Childhood Education Center Jan. 18 after school officials alerted them to the incident.

The "gun" the child brought to school was a $5 toy gun, similar to a Nerf gun, that shoots soft ping pong type balls, according to the school's superintendent.

Officials also say that there was no evidence of anyone being threatened. The child's mother told school officials that she didn't know her son brought the toy to school.


"I'd rather it be dealt with more severely than not," said Gherard. "I would rather them go a little bit too far for the safety of all the children then to say 'okay, it was probably nothing.'"
.....



It WAS nothing, you dickhead.

Another victim of the Zero Tolerance Policy.


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Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:51 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Isn't it time that this foolishness was brought to an end?



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:05 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Another victim of the Zero Tolerance Policy.


ugh, don't even get me started with that bullshit. Zero tolerance exist to create criminals. I had a student, a real bright girl, big into arts and crafts and music, come to me and tell me she was sorry because she forgot she had a razor tool of some kind in her purse from crafting stuff on the weekend. Of course we had to take this to the principal and I was hoping the little girl could just leave it with them and have her mom pick it up after school or something but no, because of brilliant zero tolerance, she was sent home for a week for bringing a weapon to school.

You know what that just taught her? She's now learned, if she accidentally brings something dangerous to school, she shouldn't let anybody know about it or else she will get in trouble. In fact, if she unintentionally breaks any rules for any reason, she should not tell anybody. How much further before that becomes "it's okay to break the rules if you don't get caught?"

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:08 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Um... why did you take her to the principal?

Living under a tyranical situation its up to people like YOU to protect people until things can be changed.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Must we? Speak MORE of guns, that is? Really? Haven't we just had two very, very long discussions on guns? Why start another?

Don't worry, I'll leave you alone to play, it just struck me when I saw the title; I groaned and thought to myself "Jezus, they just won't let go of it, will they?"

Guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns...have fun. Time to go do something more constructive...and enjoyable.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:14 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


What was I supposed to say "just keep it hidden until school is over?"

A lowly teacher could get fired if someone found out a child had a "dangerous weapon" that the teacher had knowledge of it and did nothing about it. As a matter of fact, we are also by law required to report any suspected cased of child abuse/neglect amongst several other not directly related teacher duties. Honestly, I was hoping the principal would be reasonable about it because she was a straight A student and never got in trouble. I suspect the principal would have liked to have been, but his hands were likely tied as well, gotta do things "by the book" and all...

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:14 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yes, we must, Niki.

As long as you and your kind keep up with "zero tolerance", "gun control" etc...

Oh, yes. We will.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:15 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I suppose I may be threadjacking, but I am more interested in Zero Tolerance policy than guns.

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:16 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Did she have a locker? A car?

Ok, granted you did what you thought was right... fine.

But playing it by the book has rarely EVER turned out good for ANYONE.

I would have told her to just go put it in her locker and not say a word.

But thats me, and I rarely play by the rules.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

As long as you and your kind keep up with "zero tolerance", "gun control" etc...
Ah, Wulf, you poor one-dimensional thinker. Me and my kind? When did I ever say I was in favor of "zero tolerance" (which I happen to think is totally absurd, assinine and just plain wrong)? Or "gun control" (which I've spoken quite clearly on being kind of in the middle on and not wanting to take away people's guns, just lessen access to high-quantity clips and weapons intended for nothing except mass slaughter...)? Go for it, single-minded one; when I saw the e-mail notification and what it was about and that it was from you, I rolled my eyes. I see I was right...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:33 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

I would have told her to just go put it in her locker and not say a word.


Would that I could. She was a 6th grader. Also, we did not want any other students knowing she had a sharp implement that the school would consider a 'weapon.'

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:36 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I suppose I may be threadjacking, but I am more interested in Zero Tolerance policy than guns.

Yes, this thread is about the Zero Tolerance policy.

I just put "guns" in the thread title to annoy Niki.

This situation is worse than the usual Zero Tolerance policies. It would be one thing if the kid got suspended for 3 days for bringing a Nerf gun to school.

It is quite another to call the cops. Really. Cause catching criminals like this kid will make us all safer.



-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:37 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
What was I supposed to say "just keep it hidden until school is over?"

So knowing what you know now, would you do it again? Take the girl to the principal?

In an unjust system, sometimes the just thing to do is to not participate in it.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:40 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"In an unjust system, sometimes the just thing to do is to not participate in it."

Amen



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:41 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"In an unjust system, sometimes the just thing to do is to not participate in it."

Amen

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:44 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

As long as you and your kind keep up with "zero tolerance", "gun control" etc...
Ah, Wulf, you poor one-dimensional thinker. Me and my kind? When did I ever say I was in favor of "zero tolerance" (which I happen to think is totally absurd, assinine and just plain wrong)?



Expecting Wulfie to answer a question - one that would require that he admit to jumping to conclusions?

I figured you'd know better by now.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:49 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


There's a moral dilemma. When I'm on the clock, I have a responsibility to follow and enforce the school's policies. I hate that she got in trouble for doing the right thing, but could I in good conscious tell her to break the rules and keep it hidden?

Also there would be the little part about my job and possibly losing it. I did the only thing I could, said I was proud of her for doing the right thing, even though it got her 'in trouble.'


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Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:10 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
There's a moral dilemma.

Not judging you, man. It is a moral dilemma and a difficult position to be in.

But, if it were me, I wouldn't have gone to the principal. It is about using common sense about the spirit of the law, rather than follow the letter of the law.

Here is an example. John is a federal employee. He goes to his office supply kiosk to ask for an Exacto knife to make a cardboard display for his presentation. The office supply lady says, "I'm sorry, but federal regulations require that Exacto knives be dispensed to only those employees with proper training. You haven't taken that training course, so I am not allowed to give it to you."

Now, she is doing exactly what she is paid to do. Safeguard the supplies per regulations. However, she is also a woman with common sense.

So she takes out the Exacto knife and puts it on the table. Then she says, "I'm going to get a cup of coffee. I'll be back in about 5 minutes."

I don't see a problem with this. Just me.


-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:19 PM

MINCINGBEAST


I have no interest in guns. As a general rule, whenever someone discusses guns, they are really discussing either their wiener or wiener anxiety. Or biceps. Those are also proxies for wieners.

I do, however, like discussing zero tolerance. Zero tolerance policies, and other bright line rules, aren't inherently wicked and stupid.

Giving an administrator the discretion to determine an appropriate response for a rule infraction inevitably leads to disparate punishment. Sometimes this is bothersome. For example, there are a number of people on this board that would roar if X kids were routinely set home for a rule violation, while Y kids handled more delicately. Let X and Y stand for "black/white," "christian/jew" etc...

Accordingly, to avoid inequitable results, sometimes inflexible rules are advanced that produce the occasional ridiculous result.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 3:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


"Zero-Tolerance" policies come out of the same kind of thinking as "Mandatory Minimums" and "Sentencing Guidelines" - they allow no room for individual judgment or discretion.

"You and your kind", Wulf? Really? So it would be a valid statement for me to say that Gabby Giffords was shot, and 6 people were killed, because of "you and your kind", eh?

This Space For Rent!

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Friday, February 4, 2011 3:27 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Zero Tolerance policies are usually enacted by progressives. (But to be fair, its also enacted by schools/businesses looking not to get sued)


Ok, I admit that "you and your kind" bit was over the top.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh bullshit - what it is, Wulfenwhiner, is that at the extremes of the spectrum are pyschotic fucks like you on both ends, chug-a-luggin some would be tyrants koolaid and regurgitating it on command upon everyone else, and factually, I tire of seeing threads covered in slime every time you open your fekkin piehole.

Thing is, this shit is about POWER, and here's the rub...

You know what they call Zero-Tolerance when you apply that shit to adults ?
Airport Security.

FOR A FACT, every dimwitted control measure has been applied against kids first, and then if not resisted, will be applied to YOU - which is one reason *why* I am so damn passionate about standing up for youth rights, cause that is the front line.

Worse is that by hitting them as children, desensitizing them to it, putting off that this is the way it is, it inclines them to be more accepting of even the most obviously fucking ridiculous bullshit - which explains YOU, bitchboy, cause no one could possibly believe the bullshit you spew unless they'd never been exposed to anything to contradict it, and even now when exposed to anything that contradicts your precious little bullshit bubble, like, yanno, REALITY - you run screaming like a bitch.

Cause you might well have noticed if you weren't so blinded by your own desperate NEED to validate yourself, TO yourself, cause the truth is all that screaming and howling isn't meant to convince us, no, you're trying to convince YOURSELF, of things you know damn well ain't true, thinking if you pretend hard enough they'll become so ?
Seriously, grow the hell up, child.

What you manage to desperately turn away from is the simple fact that while progressives tend to throw these measures at kids via the state, while conservatives do so under the guise of religion...

It's the conservatives throwing them at adults via the state, while progressives do so under the guise of morality/religion...

Ergo, not one fucking dimes worth of difference between em, and don't even get me started on the paper thin coat of paints the so-called conservatives use to hide their slimy countenence behind, like your pathetic tea party, like the libertarian party, and whatever bullshit they pull up next, like a used car lot which keeps changing its name to keep the creditors and angered, ripped off customers at bay.

And screw it, imma godwin it cause it damn well applies!

Whether you sig-heil for Hitler or Stalin doesn't matter, cause they're both dicks, and till you grow up and realize that, which you won't cause you're a pathetic wussy who can't face anything outside their own little plastic bubble where reality is what they want it to be... you really got nothin to say I am interested in hearing.
And if I *wanted* your opinion, I'd beat it out of you, punk.

-Frem

Ok, yes, that felt good, imma verbal sadist, I admit it.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:16 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Zero-Tolerance" policies come out of the same kind of thinking as "Mandatory Minimums" and "Sentencing Guidelines" - they allow not room for individual judgment or discretion.

"You and your kind", Wulf? Really? So it would be a valid statement for me to say that Gabby Giffords was shot, and 6 people were killed, because of "you and your kind", eh?

This Space For Rent!




Yes. It would be valid if his kind was a socialist liberal.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:20 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You know what they call Zero-Tolerance when you apply that shit to adults ?
Airport Security.

You got that right.

My son has a life-size nerf sword he got for Christmas. He loves that thing, but we haven't figured out how to bring it here. It's light and small, but very long. It won't fit into our luggage, so I suggested bringing it as an odd-sized carry-on.

We haven't tried it because, the darn thing is shaped like a sword, and my hub doesn't want to either lose it because of some TSA asshole (probable scenario) or get arrested for bringing a "weapon" to an airport (worst case scenario).



-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:23 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Good job Frem.. (golf clap)

You got your rocks off enough for the time being?

Good. Now, let us begin.

"FOR A FACT, every dimwitted control measure has been applied against kids first, and then if not resisted, will be applied to YOU...Worse is that by hitting them as children, desensitizing them to it, putting off that this is the way it is, it inclines them to be more accepting of even the most obviously fucking ridiculous bullshit " - agreed.

"the simple fact that while progressives tend to throw these measures at kids via the state, while conservatives do so under the guise of religion... It's the conservatives throwing them at adults via the state, while progressives do so under the guise of morality/religion..."
-agreed

So, out of that tirade, you actually managed to make some good points, both of which I agree with.

Good job.

Might want to dial it down a notch, tho. Bad for the blood pressure. Don't want you dying on us here. After all, you bring a lot to the discussion. It would be a shame if you were not able to rant and rave (and sometimes make good points).






"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:24 AM

KANEMAN


Tolerance is for the weak and non-principled. I'd rather hate than tolerate. Zero-tolerance is the pinnacle level of the principled mind and should be celebrated for its purity. Those that tolerate things that they are against are intolerable...

If this child's parents had any functional respect for their values they would not tolerate this schools zero-tolerance policy, grab dad's real guns, and go to school and "gifford-ize" these intolerant pigs.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 6:30 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh bullshit - what it is, Wulfenwhiner, is that at the extremes of the spectrum are pyschotic fucks like you on both ends, chug-a-luggin some would be tyrants koolaid and regurgitating it on command upon everyone else, and factually, I tire of seeing threads covered in slime every time you open your fekkin piehole.

Look, I don't like to get in the way of your ass ripping. But in this case, Wulf didn't deserve that.

All he said was snark at "[Niki] and your peeps," progressive/liberals, of being supportive of zero tolerance policies. When corrected by Mike, he admitted that generalization was over the top--a retraction if you will.

I really don't see that as regurgitating tyrant koolaid and covering the thread in slime.

The fact of the matter is, left power hungry extremes and right power hungry extremes *do* go after different types of power. Weapons control (such as zero tolerance policies) is more consistent with liberal power hunger than conservative power hunger. Not that it makes any difference in the end, but Wulf wasn't completely off-base in his association.



-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 5:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Zero-Tolerance" policies come out of the same kind of thinking as "Mandatory Minimums" and "Sentencing Guidelines" - they allow not room for individual judgment or discretion.

"You and your kind", Wulf? Really? So it would be a valid statement for me to say that Gabby Giffords was shot, and 6 people were killed, because of "you and your kind", eh?

This Space For Rent!




Yes. It would be valid if his kind was a whacked-out, batshit-crazy gun nut.



Fixed.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 5:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Zero Tolerance policies are usually enacted by progressives. (But to be fair, its also enacted by schools/businesses looking not to get sued)




Which "progressives" do you blame for things like "three strikes and you're out" mandatory sentencing regulations?


This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, February 5, 2011 8:17 PM

HARDWARE


Zero tolerance = zero brains.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 12:42 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Zero Tolerance policies are usually enacted by progressives. (But to be fair, its also enacted by schools/businesses looking not to get sued)




Which "progressives" do you blame for things like "three strikes and you're out" mandatory sentencing regulations?


This Space For Rent!



California passed its own in 1994, when that state voters passed Proposition 184 by an overwhelming majority. 72% in favor and 28% against. The initiative proposed to the voters had the title of Three Strikes and You're Out, referring to de facto life imprisonment after being convicted of three felonies.[2]


well, you asked......California. 'nuff said.




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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:01 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I have no interest in guns. As a general rule, whenever someone discusses guns, they are really discussing either their wiener or wiener anxiety. Or biceps. Those are also proxies for wieners.

I do, however, like discussing zero tolerance. Zero tolerance policies, and other bright line rules, aren't inherently wicked and stupid.

Giving an administrator the discretion to determine an appropriate response for a rule infraction inevitably leads to disparate punishment. Sometimes this is bothersome. For example, there are a number of people on this board that would roar if X kids were routinely set home for a rule violation, while Y kids handled more delicately. Let X and Y stand for "black/white," "christian/jew" etc...

Accordingly, to avoid inequitable results, sometimes inflexible rules are advanced that produce the occasional ridiculous result.



I agree, just because legislators and school boards make stupid rules doesn't mean they shouldn't be enforced. Stupid laws end up staying on the books because they are not enforced and that discretion is abused by those enforcing the rules. A Cop should be required by law to give you a ticket or arrest you if they pull you over for a traffic stop. The only other reason for doing so is to exercise their authority. If a cop pulls me over and starts telling me what he could do to me, but is only going to give me the lesser of his possibilities, I tell him to throw the book at me, I dare you. If a cop thinks I'm going sit and listen to their power trip to avoid paying a few hundred dollar for a traffic ticket, they're nuts. Those that strictly enforce stupid laws are doing us all a favor, uniform enforcement of stupid laws is the only thing that will lead to their repeal.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Zero Tolerance policies are usually enacted by progressives. (But to be fair, its also enacted by schools/businesses looking not to get sued)




Which "progressives" do you blame for things like "three strikes and you're out" mandatory sentencing regulations?


This Space For Rent!



California passed its own in 1994, when that state voters passed Proposition 184 by an overwhelming majority. 72% in favor and 28% against. The initiative proposed to the voters had the title of Three Strikes and You're Out, referring to de facto life imprisonment after being convicted of three felonies.[2]


well, you asked......California. 'nuff said.



The following states have enacted three strike laws:

In 1974: Texas
In 1994: Colorado, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, North Dakota
In 1995: Arkansas, Georgia, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Wisconsin
In 1996: Florida, Tennessee, Virginia


Since you want to cherry-pick. ;) 'nuff said.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, February 7, 2011 6:15 AM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I have no interest in guns. As a general rule, whenever someone discusses guns, they are really discussing either their wiener or wiener anxiety.



ROFL! If that were true nobody would every buy a gun with a 1 5/8 inch barrel.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, February 7, 2011 7:38 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Zero Tolerance policies are usually enacted by progressives. (But to be fair, its also enacted by schools/businesses looking not to get sued)




Which "progressives" do you blame for things like "three strikes and you're out" mandatory sentencing regulations?


This Space For Rent!



California passed its own in 1994, when that state voters passed Proposition 184 by an overwhelming majority. 72% in favor and 28% against. The initiative proposed to the voters had the title of Three Strikes and You're Out, referring to de facto life imprisonment after being convicted of three felonies.[2]


well, you asked......California. 'nuff said.



The following states have enacted three strike laws:

In 1974: Texas
In 1994: Colorado, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, North Dakota
In 1995: Arkansas, Georgia, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Wisconsin
In 1996: Florida, Tennessee, Virginia


Since you want to cherry-pick. ;) 'nuff said.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill




You asked about "three strikes and you're out"...That was California. Sure, other states followed the crazies and enacted three strikes laws, but California passed "three strikes and you're out"....'nuff said

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Monday, February 7, 2011 4:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Twenty years after Texas did... you know, that liberal bastion they call "Texas".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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