REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Sometimes there's a post so good...

POSTED BY: HARDWARE
UPDATED: Monday, May 9, 2011 14:32
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4927
PAGE 1 of 2

Monday, May 2, 2011 4:53 AM

HARDWARE


Sometimes you run into a post so good that you need to just spread it as far as you can.

This comes from Slashdot, in a thread regarding the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Quote:


circletimessquare wrote;
My last day of work at the World Trade Center was September 10, 2001. I remember turning around, looking at a lone guitarist playing near that fountain with the Globe sculpture, it was a beautiful Monday night, around 9 pm. I had worked late, so I was going to show up late to work on Tuesday. I woke up to my phone ringing off the hook. I lost my job, but compared to what others lost, I lost nothing.

The people who died that day were liberal and conservative, but all were American. Bin Laden hated us all, just because we were American. So please, no political games here. This isn't about left and right, this is about a cowardly attack on all of us, as Americans. As a hardcore liberal, I embrace my fellow Americans who are conservative on this good news for us all.

Come together, as Americans, left and right, lose the useless political snark and sniping, and celebrate this asshole's death. Good fucking riddance.




The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 6:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Would you like a shovel with that load of bolus ?

He didn't hate us "because we were american", he hated us cause we fucked him and his country over, broke our promises, left em swinging in the breeze when the Soviets pulled out, on top of a long history of exploitation and abuse going back well over fifty years.

There's also no evidence linking him to the events of 9-11, for a fact he denied it and as much shit as he liked talking - cause I'll give you that he really was a murderous dick and showboating asswipe, I can't see him not takin credit for it if he had anything at all to DO with it.

The guy we *DID* charge, who's sitting in a federal supermax right now, is some dickheaded Kuwaiti financier with links to the Carlyle Group, whom I don't really consider guilty so much as ignorant in that they turned a blind eye to Saudi payoffs of shitheels like Osama, Khalid-Sheik-Mohammed, and Ramzi Youssef, the latter two being far more "guilty" in the sense that they were directly involved in the Bojinka concept plans which were recovered in a by the book search with a properly served warrant back when the american DSS and Pakistani ISI arrested Khalid-Shiek-Mohammed on an outstanding warrant for his many crimes.
(and for the moment, we'll put aside where he got the bomb in 1993, unless you want to go there.)

Sure, the world is prolly a better place with Osama dead, but since that happened back in the second week of December 2001, and we been bullshitting ourselves with this Emmanuel Goldstein fearmongering, at least accepting that he's gone is something - albeit a bit too late to amend the damage WE caused to ourselves and others, far in excess of anything OBL could have ever done to us, which was exactly his plan, and we fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

HOWEVER - This kind of who-cares-about-the-details STUPID FUCKING IGNORANCE, is *HOW* we wound up with the fucking Patriot Act, the TSA and the ever so appropriately named gaterape-groping and a whole bunch of our freedoms and the things that ever made America worth a damn pissed right down the drain, because no one QUESTIONED it, for fear of being accused all McCarthy-like, of disloyalty or politicking.

I *DO* care about the details, CAUSE THEY FUCKING MATTER.

So what, we acknowledged today the death of a guy who we really wanted dead, not because of anything he said or did, so much, but that he was a living example of our own actions coming back to bite us on the ass - we made him, trained and financed his Mujas to kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan and made all kinds of promises we didn't ever hold up to, but now he's conveniently not around to tell his side of the story anymore, and that more than anything else is what is being celebrated here - hoorah, the guy we screwed over who never let us forget is finally gone, yippee.

And all with a nice, tidy and convenient story which doesn't require producing any proof because nobody other than bastards like me questions it.

All this shit as of late is all too convenient, all too suspicious, to go unchallenged, from the assassination of Bhutto, to the incident with "Raymond Davis" which you've no doubt forgotten just as expected when the story was buried, to Petraeus being placed in charge of the CIA, it paints a really ugly picture of what we're really doing over there and why.

So yeah, you better question it - but if you prefer to dance on the supposed corpse of some dickhead who never could have done us shit for damage without us doing most of it for him, right on cue like a monkey dancing to the organ grinders tune, you go right ahead and do that.

Cause if you think this is going to really matter, if you think that we'll actually pull the hell out of such a lucrative and convenient conflict, or hand back any of the freedoms we pissed away while the lot of you were dancing to the masters tune instead of holding them to the question - you're dreaming.

And in your slumber, being robbed blind of everything that ever mattered worth a damn, by the very folk who claim to be protecting you.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 7:03 AM

DREAMTROVE


I wanted to point out a logical fallacy: The crime is horrible, ergo, the suspect is guilty.


Select to view spoiler:


"Need a shovel" is a nice one. Might go on my list of terseties.




That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 7:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thank you DT and Frem.

This kind of "We are all just American's so let's hug each other and celebrate the death of an enemy" is the kind of horsepuckies that enables us to commit even more stupidities.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 7:34 AM

HARDWARE


Oh yes, how tragic. We're the big bad Americans. We feel so guilty because we can actually make our systems work.

Sorry, time for you children to WAKE THE FUCK UP.

OBL and a whole bunch of his sand-workshipping kinsmen would love to kill you, and your children and run your women off to slavery.

It's in the fuck koran for Christ's sake! They have a waiver on any sin when it comes to fucking over infidels. Lie, cheat, steal, kill, screw over, it's all good with their Imams.

So, if you want me to apologize because we stomped the life out of a cockroach, you're going to be waiting a long, long time.

The only regret I have is that they didn't throw his body to the hogs.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 7:39 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


No one ever goes to war 'cause they have an 'idea'. They go to war over resources and power, or the lack of them. Change that and it wouldn't matter what the Koran says, war would just not be worth it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 7:46 AM

BYTEMITE




@ thread

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 8:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's in the fuck koran for Christ's sake! They have a waiver on any sin when it comes to fucking over infidels. Lie, cheat, steal, kill, screw over, it's all good with their Imams.
Jews too. The same thing is in the OT. And look at our Crusades, and the way we wiped out native populations for God, gold, and glory. All part of that lovely militaristic Judeo-Xtian-Muslim heritage.

BTW- Not apologizing at all. But WTF are we doing in THEIR countries? How would YOU feel if the Saudis decided they would set up an army base in Texas, and then took over Washington and rewrote our laws to be acceptable to them? Goose sauce= gander sauce, no?

Hardware, as an exercise in logic why don't you try re-framing things? For example, in anti-abortion discussions, every time you read the word "abortion" substitute "war" or "death penalty". In discussions about "terrorists", every time you read the word "terrorist" substitute the phrase "American military" or "police". You might see that the same arguments and logic apply in different contexts. Perhaps, logically, there is no separation.

FWIW I'm relieved that he's dead. That is one less boogeyman to hype people up with. But I don't kid myself that this spells an end to jihadism specifically or terrorism in general.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 10:15 AM

KIRKULES


I think after a rocky start Barak Obama has come to the realization that when it comes to the war on Islamist terror the Bush administration had it right for the most part. Bush fell short on persuing terorists in Pakistan while Obama has done so admirably.

I love it when the libs here show their true colors, they hate America so much the excuse the murder of 3000 Americans. Its makes me sick, but I've come to expect it from the sick fucks here.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 10:34 AM

DREAMTROVE


I've met jihadists, they didn't want to kill me, nor did they hate freedom. One went so far as to say that the infadel did not have souls... okay, that's a bit extreme. But do you really think there are no christians or jews who feel the same way (more or less) about muslims?

Both sides have preachers of hate that fill their heads with this sort of notion. What you really have to ask yourself is "Do you want to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?"

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 10:40 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:

I love it when the libs here show their true colors, they hate America so much the excuse the murder of 3000 Americans.



Kirk. Let me put it to you in a way you cannot possibly fail to understand. I knew people killed on 9.11. I suspect everyone in New York does. We're sick of radical ideologues making it their battlecry. We're not your political football. You don't think I care what happened? Why do you think I'm so ticked at the govt. over this. I did a lot of digging into this topic, and the more you look, the more certain you become that it was not OBL and the jihadists but someone a lot closer to home.




That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 11:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think this was a no-win situation for us ObL was dying, his organization was "degraded". We have made him a hero. Not sure that is a good move. It might have been better to bring him to trial.

By going into Pakistan w/o the SSI (Pakistani security, who would have surely warned ObL) we have just seriously pissed off a LOT of Pakistanis. First, we embarrassed them. There will surely be a lot of questions about how ObL could have moved into a compound w/o SSI knowing. Or, if they DID know, doing anything about it. Secondly, we have insulted their national sovereignty.

Pakistan isn't much of an ally, god knows. The SSI has been playing footsie with terrorists for a long, long time... the Afghani Taliban was set up with SSI help, and the SSI takes a cut of the heroin being traded cross-border. But Pakistan as an enemy might be worse.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Would you like a shovel with that load of bolus ?

He didn't hate us "because we were american", he hated us cause we fucked him and his country over, broke our promises, left em swinging in the breeze when the Soviets pulled out, on top of a long history of exploitation and abuse going back well over fifty years.



I was unaware that Soviets ever WERE in S.Arabia, and then pulled out.

Quote:


There's also no evidence linking him to the events of 9-11, for a fact he denied it and as much shit as he liked talking - cause I'll give you that he really was a murderous dick and showboating asswipe, I can't see him not takin credit for it if he had anything at all to DO with it..



And here's the point where I'm reminded just how completely out of touch you are with reality.

Say goodnight, Gracie.






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 11:58 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Sometimes you run into a post so good that you need to just spread it as far as you can.

This comes from Slashdot, in a thread regarding the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Quote:


circletimessquare wrote;

The people who died that day were liberal and conservative, but all were American.




Ahem, actually not true.


Apart from the approximately 2,669 United States casualties, 372 foreign nationals (excluding the nineteen perpetrators), representing just over 10% of the total number of deaths, also perished in the attacks. The following is a list of their nationalities (not accounting for some cases of dual citizenship). By far the foreign country with the largest loss of life was the United Kingdom, with 67 deaths (including the overseas territory of Bermuda). India lost 41, South Korea lost 28 and Canada and Japan lost 24 each. Colombia lost seventeen and Jamaica, Mexico and the Philippines lost sixteen each. Australia and Germany lost eleven each, while Italy lost ten.
wiki

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:00 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


What strikes me as rather strange, is that a vast superpower nation such as the USA, is throwing a big party because they have taken 10 years to kill ONE Man. Do you think that the whole Islamic terrorist shit is now going to collapse and fold because Bin Laden is dead? Is there no more organisation below Bin Laden?
I'm sorry, but your Government is easily pleased.
The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.
I'm shedding no tears over his death, but partying in the streets over one man???It's a pretty pathetic effort IMO.


Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:04 PM

SKYWALKEN


Quote:

Come together, as Americans, left and right, lose the useless political snark and sniping, and celebrate this asshole's death.


Right on!!!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:12 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

It might have been better to bring him to trial.



Difficult to do with dead people

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The celebrations are about as organic as they come. The ones I know of occurring are in NYC, at the Mets / Phillies baseball game , and in D.C...

I'm glad he's dead. Maybe the significance of it all hasn't really sunk in yet. I don't know. I'm not 'elated', and do find the sudden outburst a bit curious, but then I'm not FROM NYC, and didn't live through it, as they did. And continue, still, to do so.

I'm personally more subdued. Usama has long been rendered impotent as a 'leader', but still had to answer for his crimes. 10 years or 100 years, doesn't matter. He had his comin', and I'm proud that he was put down, by our own military. ( That he was hiding behind a *woman, in a last ditch effort to have others die for his sins, is a prime example of who this piece of debris really was, at the very end )

And lay off the 'one man' nonsense. Hitler was ' one man'. Saddam was 'one man'. Iraqis danced in the streets when he was caught... .Usama is the face of modern day evil. Any time that good defeats evil, is a very good thing. Sorry you don't GET it, but that's o.k. Usama is dead, and that's all that really matters.


* Turns out that the woman was his own wife. Sorry, but most men would stand in FRONT of their wives, when bullets start flying. This gutless piece of shit used his wife ( his property ) as a human shield.

Honor be unto him....


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, dead men tell no tales.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well, dead men tell no tales.



Nope. But any files they may have on their computers...







" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:32 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
What strikes me as rather strange, is that a vast superpower nation such as the USA, is throwing a big party because they have taken 10 years to kill ONE Man. Do you think that the whole Islamic terrorist shit is now going to collapse and fold because Bin Laden is dead? Is there no more organisation below Bin Laden?
I'm sorry, but your Government is easily pleased.
The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.
I'm shedding no tears over his death, but partying in the streets over one man???It's a pretty pathetic effort IMO.


Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!



I wasn't aware this became a national holiday. I certainly wasn't let out of work for it. Not that I would want to celebrate another person's death, regardless of how evil I considered them. Still, I get your point. It wasn't a royal wedding after all

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, just to chime in and then I'm outa' here: there is as much evidence of bin Laden's guilt for 9/11 as there is for Hussein's WMDs. In other words - nada. And, I'm detecting a Bush administration patten here which goes: start a war and look for reasons later. And, uh, fail to find any evidence. Geeeeze. What a dunce.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And lay off the 'one man' nonsense. Hitler was ' one man'. Saddam was 'one man'. Iraqis danced in the streets when he was caught... .Usama is the face of modern day evil. Any time that good defeats evil, is a very good thing.
In the AI thread we talk about the capabilities of "one man". I said in that thread- and I repeat here- even the most sociopathic among us depend on the cooperation of many others to further their own goals.

One man ranting about evil Jewish bankers would simply be a lonely soapbox orator without the cooperation of millions. The fact of war is not an indication of human aggression as much as it is an indication of cooperation.

It's that whole libertarian fantasy of "the individual"; like Ayn Rand's protagonists. Anything that we do that is significant, we do collectively. A lone individual doesn't have enough power. They may as well be jacking off in a corner.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

It's that whole libertarian fantasy of "the individual"; like Ayn Rand's protagonists. Anything that we do that is significant, we do collectively. A lone individual doesn't have enough power. They may as well be jacking off in a corner.



Wow... project irrelevant and non related issues much ?

I said UBL was the FACE of evil, not the total embodiment of it. When folks who riot over his death ( and yes, that's exactly what is going on in places like Pakistan ) carry signs, there's HIS face. That's the point.

That zealots follow leaders like Hitler, Saddam or Usama, has nothing to do w/ what Ayn Rand was talking about, at all.

Curious insight into your thinking ,but you completely miss the mark here.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 1:51 PM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. I thought this thread was turning into flamebait, maybe it wasn't.

The gatherings and jubilation seem a little much, not that I could or would have prevented them. Reminded me of some of the celebrations in the Middle East whenever America gets some bad luck.

Sometimes it almost seems like people lack awareness of what people on their own side are doing, and how something like this could provoke and perpetuate feud violence.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 2:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I thought this thread was turning into flamebait, maybe it wasn't.

The gatherings and jubilation seem a little much, not that I could or would have prevented them. Reminded me of some of the celebrations in the Middle East whenever America gets some bad luck.

Sometimes it almost seems like people lack awareness of what people on their own side are doing, and how something like this could provoke and perpetuate feud violence.



I'm trying to think of a time when this sort of spontaneous celebration has occurred. Other than New Yorkers and in D.C., I don't know that there was much in the way of open celebration. There wasn't wide spread talk of it on FB, least not that I saw. But I'm not all that heavy into FB or Twitter....


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 2:39 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I thought this thread was turning into flamebait, maybe it wasn't.

The gatherings and jubilation seem a little much, not that I could or would have prevented them. Reminded me of some of the celebrations in the Middle East whenever America gets some bad luck.

Sometimes it almost seems like people lack awareness of what people on their own side are doing, and how something like this could provoke and perpetuate feud violence.



I'm trying to think of a time when this sort of spontaneous celebration has occurred. Other than New Yorkers and in D.C., I don't know that there was much in the way of open celebration. There wasn't wide spread talk of it on FB, least not that I saw. But I'm not all that heavy into FB or Twitter....


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

Each and every time Fidel Castro has died, sneezed, or been hospitalized, Miami experiences a similar celebration.

I've seen it enough times that it makes me a bit sad.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 2:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Well I'm glad he's dead. And the celebrating (not that much in the grand scheme of things, just in New York and DC as has been said) makes sense to me, I think people are feeling closure, maybe even a closure that they didn't know they were looking for in some cases, I felt it and I didn't know I would, or that I was seeking it, I didn't know until it happened. I like the comradery I see in the news footage of people at the White House etc. Call me whatever you want I don't rightly care.

Byte's point is worth considering though, it feels good to celebrate and have said comradery as countrymen, but will it lead to more trouble for our warriors? It may, which bothers me. But I don't think we can stop spontaneous jubilation, so we'll have to handle things as they come.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:05 PM

DREAMTROVE



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well, dead men tell no tales.



So true.

ETA: There was much more evidence for Saddam's WMDs, that's why it was the case for war. If there hadn't been evidence, they would have made a better case, because that's a terrible reason to go to war. There must be three dozen nations at least with WMDs, many of which were sworn enemies of the US. It was not that there wasn't any evidence, it was that just because there is evidence doesn't mean that it is so. That's why there are trials. Or aren't, in this case.


Rap,

I'm sure he was already dead, but there is something here: Now the idea of him is dead. The "one man" as you said, the face of evil. Whether or not the man was evil in life, he became the image of evil, for a decade, and now with that gone, we can move on, and perhaps look at things more objectively. I can see a positive side to that.


Quote:

Sig

One man ranting about evil Jewish bankers would simply be a lonely soapbox orator without the cooperation of millions.



Pirate News has the cooperation of millions?


Byte,

Maybe we can celebrate that now we have no legitimate reason to be in the middle east


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Oh yes, how tragic. We're the big bad Americans. We feel so guilty because we can actually make our systems work.

Sorry, time for you children to WAKE THE FUCK UP.

OBL and a whole bunch of his sand-workshipping kinsmen would love to kill you, and your children and run your women off to slavery.

It's in the fuck koran for Christ's sake! They have a waiver on any sin when it comes to fucking over infidels. Lie, cheat, steal, kill, screw over, it's all good with their Imams.

So, if you want me to apologize because we stomped the life out of a cockroach, you're going to be waiting a long, long time.

The only regret I have is that they didn't throw his body to the hogs.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36




HW, your own "good book" is full of all sorts of evil cocksuckerish bullshit, too, y'know. Does that make all Christians evil murderers?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

It's in the fuck koran for Christ's sake! They have a waiver on any sin when it comes to fucking over infidels. Lie, cheat, steal, kill, screw over, it's all good with their Imams.
Jews too. The same thing is in the OT. And look at our Crusades, and the way we wiped out native populations for God, gold, and glory. All part of that lovely militaristic Judeo-Xtian-Muslim heritage.

BTW- Not apologizing at all. But WTF are we doing in THEIR countries? How would YOU feel if the Saudis decided they would set up an army base in Texas, and then took over Washington and rewrote our laws to be acceptable to them? Goose sauce= gander sauce, no?

Hardware, as an exercise in logic why don't you try re-framing things? For example, in anti-abortion discussions, every time you read the word "abortion" substitute "war" or "death penalty". In discussions about "terrorists", every time you read the word "terrorist" substitute the phrase "American military" or "police". You might see that the same arguments and logic apply in different contexts. Perhaps, logically, there is no separation.

FWIW I'm relieved that he's dead. That is one less boogeyman to hype people up with. But I don't kid myself that this spells an end to jihadism specifically or terrorism in general.




Bingo, Signy. It probably doesn't bring one soldier home from Afghanistan anytime soon, but whether he died a decade ago or a day ago, making it "official" that he's dead and gone brings a sense of closure to the whole debacle, in a way. It means Osama is one bogeyman they'll never be able to hoist up to terrify people with again.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I think after a rocky start Barak Obama has come to the realization that when it comes to the war on Islamist terror the Bush administration had it right for the most part. Bush fell short on persuing terorists in Pakistan while Obama has done so admirably.

I love it when the libs here show their true colors, they hate America so much the excuse the murder of 3000 Americans. Its makes me sick, but I've come to expect it from the sick fucks here.



By the same token, you and all your right-wing asshole brethren hate humanity so much that you'll excuse the murders of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and cheerlead it as "patriotism". The true "sick fucks" in this country vote for Republicans and teabaggers, and claim they care about anything but their own murderous and greedy desires. No wonder you're with them!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
What strikes me as rather strange, is that a vast superpower nation such as the USA, is throwing a big party because they have taken 10 years to kill ONE Man. Do you think that the whole Islamic terrorist shit is now going to collapse and fold because Bin Laden is dead? Is there no more organisation below Bin Laden?
I'm sorry, but your Government is easily pleased.
The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.
I'm shedding no tears over his death, but partying in the streets over one man???It's a pretty pathetic effort IMO.


Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!




Did nobody in England celebrate when Hitler's death was announced?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Well I'm glad he's dead. And the celebrating (not that much in the grand scheme of things, just in New York and DC as has been said) makes sense to me, I think people are feeling closure, maybe even a closure that they didn't know they were looking for in some cases, I felt it and I didn't know I would, or that I was seeking it, I didn't know until it happened. I like the comradery I see in the news footage of people at the White House etc. Call me whatever you want I don't rightly care.

Byte's point is worth considering though, it feels good to celebrate and have said comradery as countrymen, but will it lead to more trouble for our warriors? It may, which bothers me. But I don't think we can stop spontaneous jubilation, so we'll have to handle things as they come.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




Well said, and about sums up my feelings on it. I don't celebrate his death, but the closure it will help bring.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 3:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:

Sig

One man ranting about evil Jewish bankers would simply be a lonely soapbox orator without the cooperation of millions.



Pirate News has the cooperation of millions?





Good one. I lol'd. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 4:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Each and every time Fidel Castro has died, sneezed, or been hospitalized, Miami experiences a similar celebration.

I've seen it enough times that it makes me a bit sad.

--Anthony



Likely they were celebrating the death of the one who killed their siblings, parents and or grandparents, as he took their land.

It IS sad that Castro still lives. I agree.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 4:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Each and every time Fidel Castro has died, sneezed, or been hospitalized, Miami experiences a similar celebration.

I've seen it enough times that it makes me a bit sad.

--Anthony



Likely they were celebrating the death of the one who killed their siblings, parents and or grandparents, as he took their land.



So you will be completely understanding when large-scale celebrations break out in Baghdad when Dubya dies, right?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 4:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



No, not really. But you're too stupid for me to even bother explaining it...


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 4:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


You mean you've got nothing. Color me surprised.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 5:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

That zealots follow leaders like Hitler, Saddam or Usama, has nothing to do w/ what Ayn Rand was talking about, at all.
Oh? I thought you were HER zealot! My bad.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 9:23 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
What strikes me as rather strange, is that a vast superpower nation such as the USA, is throwing a big party because they have taken 10 years to kill ONE Man. Do you think that the whole Islamic terrorist shit is now going to collapse and fold because Bin Laden is dead? Is there no more organisation below Bin Laden?
I'm sorry, but your Government is easily pleased.
The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.
I'm shedding no tears over his death, but partying in the streets over one man???It's a pretty pathetic effort IMO.


Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!



I wasn't aware this became a national holiday. I certainly wasn't let out of work for it. Not that I would want to celebrate another person's death, regardless of how evil I considered them. Still, I get your point. It wasn't a royal wedding after all

I know what you are trying to say, but we were celebrating the history and tradition of one of our national institutions and identity.And that is a specific internal occasion that is the culmination of 2000years of continuous history. What exactly does the death of Bin Laden achieve in real terms!! I understand how people would be pleased(I'm not trying to belittle that), but I think the Gov is making too big a deal.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 2, 2011 9:28 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
What strikes me as rather strange, is that a vast superpower nation such as the USA, is throwing a big party because they have taken 10 years to kill ONE Man. Do you think that the whole Islamic terrorist shit is now going to collapse and fold because Bin Laden is dead? Is there no more organisation below Bin Laden?
I'm sorry, but your Government is easily pleased.
The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.
I'm shedding no tears over his death, but partying in the streets over one man???It's a pretty pathetic effort IMO.


Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!




Did nobody in England celebrate when Hitler's death was announced?

I'm pretty sure that they did. But Hitler's death signalled the end of a world war, and he was a man that had total political power in that. The death of OBL signifies the end of nothing.This war will carry on and possibly escalate VERY soon.No comparison whatsoever.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 2:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

That zealots follow leaders like Hitler, Saddam or Usama, has nothing to do w/ what Ayn Rand was talking about, at all.
Oh? I thought you were HER zealot! My bad.



Nope. Never even read all of Atlas Shrugged. It bored me, so I put it down. But the message that the individual should have the right to do as they please, so far as they don't impeded on the rights of others....seems like a dangerous idea to you. Wonder why.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:26 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Good one. I lol'd. :)



I'm surprised someone actually got it, rather than thinking that I simply misread the post. I was expecting a rant from someone, but they're too busy bickering like an old married polygamous couple (imagine the nightmare ) to notice that I was here at all. Maybe it's time we started seeing other forums

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 7:45 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

The fact that just one bloke's death can cause massive chants of "USA" in the streets is a pretty poor indication of how desperate you are to achieve a victory.

This is more than just a tactical 'victory' - this is about overdue revenge, and justice.

This was a very fitting and satisfying end to the Bin Laden story if you ask me. He was hunted down and expertly taken out by US special forces, reportedly in his last moments using a woman as a human shield. Ok I don't revel in that woman's death - but my point is everything about this operation goes a long way towards destroying the man's courageous and invincible mystique (in radical islamist thought).

As said before: Win.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:14 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Speaking of post that bear repeating, I saw this post on a friends facebook and lol'd

Quote:

Hey Pakistan, I know you think you're being cute when you say that it was your intelligence that led to the death of Bin Laden, but you might want to stop drawing attention to yourself while we go over Bin Laden's little black book of friends.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:54 AM

BYTEMITE


...Well, crap. Judging by the popular response that's already being whipped up, we really ARE heading for a war with Pakistan.

Joyous.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Did nobody in England celebrate when Hitler's death was announced?



I'm pretty sure that they did. But Hitler's death signalled the end of a world war, and he was a man that had total political power in that. The death of OBL signifies the end of nothing.This war will carry on and possibly escalate VERY soon.No comparison whatsoever.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!



I think you're misremembering your history. Unless you believe that Japan surrendered the day Hitler died. As I remember it, the war carried on for quite some time after Hitler died. In fact, it escalated to a nuclear war!

If anyone expected that the death of Bin Laden would equate to the end of all terrorism, I'd have to ask them if the death of Hitler signaled an end to all Nazism. Or an end to Germans.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:56 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Did nobody in England celebrate when Hitler's death was announced?



I'm pretty sure that they did. But Hitler's death signalled the end of a world war, and he was a man that had total political power in that. The death of OBL signifies the end of nothing.This war will carry on and possibly escalate VERY soon.No comparison whatsoever.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!



I think you're misremembering your history. Unless you believe that Japan surrendered the day Hitler died. As I remember it, the war carried on for quite some time after Hitler died. In fact, it escalated to a nuclear war!

If anyone expected that the death of Bin Laden would equate to the end of all terrorism, I'd have to ask them if the death of Hitler signaled an end to all Nazism. Or an end to Germans.

The death of Hitler meant the end of the war in EUROPE.So as English people, THAT was what concerned US. The Japanese conflict was YOUR problem.And no,it did not mean the end of Nazism, but is was no longer a worldwide threat and was an end to ARMED CONFLICT in Europe.
Don't be pedantic just to prove a point, son.It's embarrassing.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, May 4, 2011 1:54 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Sorry, but I seem to remember some Brits and Aussies doing a bit of fighting in the Pacific Theatre as well.

You want to remember things in broad swaths, you'd do well to remember that OBL was the face and image of Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism in the last decade. As such, his death DOES mark the end of something, even if it's only a symbolic something.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL