REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

U.S. AAA rating downgraded.

POSTED BY: OLDENGLANDDRY
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 16:20
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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Why is it that the Left tries to promote this lie , that when ever they dislike something political, they feel it necessary to attack symbols of this country ?




You mean like the Statue of Liberty?


Meanwhile, conservatives don't waste time attacking the symbols of our nation. Nope - they go straight to shredding the Constitution, every single time.

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:

Just glad I lived to see the capitalist dream reach it's inevitable tragic conclusion.




Fixed that for ya, Kirk.

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Why is it that the Left tries to promote this lie , that when ever they dislike something political, they feel it necessary to attack symbols of this country ?




You mean like the Statue of Liberty?


Meanwhile, conservatives don't waste time attacking the symbols of our nation. Nope - they go straight to shredding the Constitution, every single time.




Statue of liberty - Made in France, by Frenchmen. Given to this country, on it's centennial celebration.

And the constitution remark is so beyond silly, I just have to laugh at the absurdity of the claim. Another classic example of the Left accusing the Right of what the Left itself is exclusively is guilty.


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Sunday, August 7, 2011 8:27 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I actually feel some sympathy for the libs here, their belief that they could solve all of the World's problems if they could just get their hands on other people's money is going down in flames. They are correct that we could raise taxes and put off the inevitable for a few more years, but that does nothing to put us on a sustainable path for the long run. At least we still have the option to raise taxes. The European socialist utopias that they want us to emulate have come to the point were taxes are so high that raising rates actually reduces revenue and so they have no choice but severe austerity measures. We'll be right there with them in a few more years, but not until we've spent an few more trillion of other peoples money. Just glad I lived to see the socialist dream reach it's inevitable tragic conclusion. Now we can get back to what we know works, but there's going to be a lot of suffering in the short term, I hope you're all prepared for it.



You lost me at European Socialist utopias, because there is not a socialist country in Europe. You must be talking about a fantasy land.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 8:32 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Probably edging more towards treasonous, as it not only attempts to make a mockery of one of this country's revolutionary icons, but does so under the misplaced guise and phony claim of vilifying the current TEA party movement.

Why is it that the Left tries to promote this lie , that when ever they dislike something political, they feel it necessary to attack symbols of this country ?

Burn the flag of the USA ? " Oh, but we LOVE America! We're just showing our displeasure at some of those with whom we disagree. "

Graphic parodies of Gadsden's flag? " Why, they're nothing but TERRORISTS!

Are you such simpletons, that you can't think of ways to voice a counter view, with out defacing the very images of the country you claim to love ?

Talk about useful idiots.




I have no problems vilifying people or groups that spread outright lies, be it because of ignorance or not. Auraptor you have not backup one of your claims with any kind of evidence since I've been here, so don't talk to me about being an idiot. According to you at least I'm a useful one.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 5:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Wisconsin tea-baggers cheer the announcement of the credit downgrade.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/08/video-tea-partiers-cheer-downgrade
-americas-credit-rating


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 5:49 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


In my world, Triple A means the people who will come and tow ya if ya get in a pinch, and the place where we go when we're going on a big trip to see if they can save us some money. My family loves _that Triple A. I don't even know what the other is, apparently something to do with credit.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And now we're AA. In my world that's the place you go to to when you have a drinking problem.

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


make that a double

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Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:21 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Thank You Teabaggers!



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, August 8, 2011 6:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That is so sad. Why can't the right speak in plain old, regular terms, without everything being extremes?
Quote:

their belief that they could solve all of the World's problems if they could just get their hands on other people's money
is just plain stupid.
Quote:

that does nothing to put us on a sustainable path for the long run
No mention of the fact that we, along with the majority of Americans, want to cut spending ALONG with raising taxes (or even just closing loopholes and subsidies, to oil companies, who are among the only ones making huge profits in this time of scarcity)...no, it's gotta be all extremes, liberals are to blame for EVERYTHING, there is no moderation, there is no middle ground...
Quote:

European socialist utopias that they want us to emulate
Always with the buzz words...would be interesting to count how many stupid, meaningless buzz words are tossed out here by each side; I'll betcha dollars to donuts which people would use them most. What the hell does "socialist utopia" even MEAN? Yes, I know what it's INTENDED to mean, but it's nonsensical. Nobody wants to be Europe, or even be LIKE Europe. Like us, they have some good ideas and some bad ones; some we think are worth trying, others we know are not.
Quote:

until we've spent an few more trillion of other peoples money
It is, of course, all "libs" fault that we've spent so many trillions ALREADY; because Obama's spent a lot trying to shore things up, and he's a Democrat, it's got to be LIBERALS who want to borrow everyone's money. But not right-wingers, despite everything they've done in the past, despite setting us on this road in the first place then following it up, hiding the costs of the wars, giving tax cuts to the rich (which show no sign of "trickling down"), etc.

It's just weird. I know what I learned from The Authortiarians, but it just doesn't seem to MAKE SENSE that they keep doing it over and over and over...does it give them some pleasure or other? Some sense of self-righteousness or something?

Ah, again with the "treasonous"...that one is so weird. Another example of going immediately to extremes, without anything in between. Of course, the extremism is inhereint in this:


The fact is, the Gadsden flag is an icon, used by the Marine Corps and now used by the Tea Party; everyone understands this and that's all there is to it. Irony and satire are American forms of expression, and the REAL U.S. flag has been satirized over and over in a million ways. It's just silly.





Perspective; something some people just don't have.

Riona and Kiki; those are giggle-producing! And show a sense of humor and perspective, missing in the treason "discussion". Kudos.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, August 8, 2011 1:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

No mention of the fact that we, along with the majority of Americans, want to cut spending ALONG with raising taxes (or even just closing loopholes and subsidies, to oil companies, who are among the only ones making huge profits in this time of scarcity)...no, it's gotta be all extremes, liberals are to blame for EVERYTHING, there is no moderation, there is no middle ground...



Yup. That's pretty much why I stopped bothering to treat ol' Kirk like he was anything other than the boot-licking fascist neo-con tea-bagger that he's shown himself to be.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

I have no problems vilifying people or groups that spread outright lies, be it because of ignorance or not. Auraptor you have not backup one of your claims with any kind of evidence since I've been here, so don't talk to me about being an idiot. According to you at least I'm a useful one.





If you're not fond of groups that spread out right lies, then the Democrats must really piss you off.

The idea of a fiscally responsible govt, and holding it accountable for the use of OUR money, is what we're talking about here. This claim of 'lies',associated w/the TEA party movement , is left wanting.

Unfamiliar w/ the term 'useful idiot', are we ? Seems like.

Show me were I've not been able to explain my views, and why I think the way I do. You can't, because I know of what I speak.

And while there may not be any countries in Europe which are full blown socialist, the term 'European socialist ' countries was used, I believe. Contrary to Niki's claims, Ero socialism is EXACTLY what the Left is pushing here, with more regulations, less freedom, higher taxes...

Many people in the US would have a hard time comprehending the idea of needing to get a license to watch t.v. But that's life in much of Europe, as well as many other places across the world. ( watching in color ? That costs more )

Here, I can go out, buy a t.v. and a digital t.v. antenna, and watch as much t.v. as I please. No reporting what I buy or what I watch to any govt bureaucracy, or anything.






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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 3:48 AM

BYTEMITE


In addition to Ero-Socialism, there's also Ero-Christianity, Ero-Feudalism, and Ero-Bureaucracy.

None of them are nearly as hot as they sound, though all the naked people are pretty funny.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CloudCuckooLander

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 4:53 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

I have no problems vilifying people or groups that spread outright lies, be it because of ignorance or not. Auraptor you have not backup one of your claims with any kind of evidence since I've been here, so don't talk to me about being an idiot. According to you at least I'm a useful one.





If you're not fond of groups that spread out right lies, then the Democrats must really piss you off.

The idea of a fiscally responsible govt, and holding it accountable for the use of OUR money, is what we're talking about here. This claim of 'lies',associated w/the TEA party movement , is left wanting.

Unfamiliar w/ the term 'useful idiot', are we ? Seems like.

Show me were I've not been able to explain my views, and why I think the way I do. You can't, because I know of what I speak.

And while there may not be any countries in Europe which are full blown socialist, the term 'European socialist ' countries was used, I believe. Contrary to Niki's claims, Ero socialism is EXACTLY what the Left is pushing here, with more regulations, less freedom, higher taxes...

Many people in the US would have a hard time comprehending the idea of needing to get a license to watch t.v. But that's life in much of Europe, as well as many other places across the world. ( watching in color ? That costs more )

Here, I can go out, buy a t.v. and a digital t.v. antenna, and watch as much t.v. as I please. No reporting what I buy or what I watch to any govt bureaucracy, or anything.



Okay, you say you can back up your views. Start with a solid citation regarding the need for a TV license, including the part about color cost more.

Second define socialism, provide a reference for that definition and then note the countries that are socialist in the EU, again with citation.

Do that and then you can say that you explained your views and backed them up with facts. Until then you are all talk.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 5:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I don't know of any NEED for a license to have a t.v., but that's how many govts treat their citizens. Is this something with which you're unfamiliar? Sounds like.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/

" If you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV you must, by law, be covered by a TV Licence, no matter what device you're using. "



I thought I said that there aren't any purely socialistic nations, but there are nations in Europe and elsewhere which incorporate many socialist ideas in their form of govt.

If you need citations for the concepts of which I'm talking, by all means, google is your friend.

Read up on the issues, first, then YOU come back and discuss. Until then, I don't give a flying flip whether you think I'm all talk or not.


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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:25 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I don't know of any NEED for a license to have a t.v., but that's how many govts treat their citizens. Is this something with which you're unfamiliar? Sounds like.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/

" If you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV you must, by law, be covered by a TV Licence, no matter what device you're using. "



I thought I said that there aren't any purely socialistic nations, but there are nations in Europe and elsewhere which incorporate many socialist ideas in their form of govt.

If you need citations for the concepts of which I'm talking, by all means, google is your friend.

Read up on the issues, first, then YOU come back and discuss. Until then, I don't give a flying flip whether you think I'm all talk or not.




Okay, so in the UK you need a license. It is much the same as you need a license for a car. Also the UK has many more, free TV stations and programming, and that includes commercial free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_Kingdom

Yes, you said no pure socialist countries. I want you to define socialism and then show what socialist ideas are used in EU countries.

....or just provide a citation to define EU socialism.

Your making the claims, the burden of proof is on you. The EU socialism thing is pure BS. That is the way debate goes. If you don't care, fine. Don't expect me to give your claims the time of day.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 7:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I'm not playing this game w/ you. You were ignorant as to the comment of licenses in order to view t.v. I showed you what the facts were. You casually tried to dismiss it as... " Okay, so in the UK you need a license. "

No, in MANY countries, the GOVERNMENT issues you a permit ,or license which ALLOWS one to watch t.v. or not. Who the hell's business is it of theirs ?

This isn't by any stretch of the imagination comparable to buying a car, and getting a license to drive it.

I can pick up close to 100 channels, FREE, on a digital antenna, and not pay any government or company a damn dime. I don't have to 'register' my t.v., fill out a form, tell anyone what I'm watching, how many t.v.'s I have... it's a thing called freedom. Heard of it ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 7:18 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm not playing this game w/ you. You were ignorant as to the comment of licenses in order to view t.v. I showed you what the facts were. You casually tried to dismiss it as... " Okay, so in the UK you need a license. "

No, in MANY countries, the GOVERNMENT issues you a permit ,or license which ALLOWS one to watch t.v. or not. Who the hell's business is it of theirs ?

This isn't by any stretch of the imagination comparable to buying a car, and getting a license to drive it.

I can pick up close to 100 channels, FREE, on a digital antenna, and not pay any government or company a damn dime. I don't have to 'register' my t.v., fill out a form, tell anyone what I'm watching, how many t.v.'s I have... it's a thing called freedom. Heard of it ?



I did not dismiss it, I just don't see it as a huge deal. More so when you considered the TV stations you get in those countries.

Why isn't it like needing a license for a car, or a permit to build on your property? Explain how it is different.

Plus you have not yet back up your EU Socialism claim with anything.

You’re all talk, and nothing else. If you are so smart all of what I'm asking should be easy. So, stop with the BS and put up.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 10:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If the t.v. license wasn't such a big deal, why then did you ask me for proof ?

Do you have any idea how tedious and lame your " replies " are ? I say something , you doubt it. I back up my claim, yes, with citations, and you dismiss it, out of hand.

If you can't see the difference between owning an appliance like a t.v., and a car, or building a structure, then I'm wasting my time.

If you're so clueless as to the differences between the form of govt here in the US and the socialized countries of Europe, then I haven't the time or interest to educate you on the matter.


Apparently, from reading your signature, you fear yourself. Ya might want to look to that.



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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:11 AM

BYTEMITE


Technically Britain is a Social democracy, which on the sliding scale is not all the way over to socialism (meaning a centralized economy), but it's not NOT socialist. Arguably a number of the programs it has are socialist ideologically.

People are currently rioting in the UK. The police shooting was the spark for this specific riot, but we're essentially seeing the result of austerity laws, meaning laws that have taken way their normal social benefits. The result is socialist revolution, and the working class, the most affected by these policies, rising up in protest against conservatives.

But you have to HAVE those programs in order to get rid of them and have people rioting to get them back, y'dig?

Sweden is probably the closest European nation to socialism. It's a welfare state, in other words a mixed economy (some parts capitalism and some parts socialism).

Most nations in the world are a mixed economy to some degree or another (including China, which was established as a Communist nation, as we all know). The US doesn't have quite as many socialist elements in its economy as others.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Well said, Byte

But since you didn't cite any sources, you're just all talk...





( kidding )

But I'm half expecting nickerson to reply that , since *I* didn't give such an answer, and or give at least 3 citations, it doesn't count.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:26 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
If the t.v. license wasn't such a big deal, why then did you ask me for proof ?

Do you have any idea how tedious and lame your " replies " are ? I say something , you doubt it. I back up my claim, yes, with citations, and you dismiss it, out of hand.

If you can't see the difference between owning an appliance like a t.v., and a car, or building a structure, then I'm wasting my time.

If you're so clueless as to the differences between the form of govt here in the US and the socialized countries of Europe, then I haven't the time or interest to educate you on the matter.



I asked for proof because I hve never seen you provide any.

You are making the claim that countries in Europe are socialized. I call BS. I will back that up.

Socialium is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively, or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.

Socialists inspired by the Soviet model of economic development, such as Marxist-Leninists, have advocated the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a single-party state that owns the means of production.

There are also splits between market socialists and proponents of economic planning. Overall Socialisum is not easy to nail down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

The closest the EU comes to socialism is the distant off shoot of the Nordic Model. The Nordic Model:

Economic publications, such as "The Nordic Model - Embracing globalization and sharing risks", characterize the system as follows:[2]

An elaborate social safety net in addition to public services such as education and universal healthcare.

Strong property rights, contract enforcement, and overall ease of doing business.

Public pension schemes.

Low barriers to free trade.[3] This is combined with collective risk sharing (social programs, labor market institutions) which has provided a form of protection against the risks associated with economic openness.

Little product market regulation. Nordic countries rank very high in product market freedom according to OECD rankings.

High degrees of labor union membership.

High public spending.

Public expenditure for health and education is significantly higher in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway in comparison to the OECD average.

Overall tax burden are among the world's highest; 51.1% of GDP in Sweden, and 43.3% in Finland, compared to 34.7% in Germany, 33.5% in Canada, and 30.5% in Ireland.


This link you can look up each member of the EU. You can see by that not one, not a single you one is even close to a Socialist Country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

I asked for proof because I hve never seen you provide any.



nickerson, you're full of shit.

You're simply parroting the same nonsense that others have said on here, simply because they don't agree w/ my point of view. I've given evidence and proof a plenty, but just as you've shown here, when I do so, you never acknowledge it.

So, what's the point ? I see none.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Came back to see if there was anything new. And yes, given it was the last post, Raptor, I read yours. So out of curiosity I scrolled back through both pages. Your "evidence and proof a-plenty" and elsewhere your mention of "citations" consist of one, and only one, link...something about a TV license. From beginning to end of thread. Just so others know you're inflating your claim hugely.

It's been my observation that neither Raptor nor DT offer cites or links most of the time, while PN puts up FAR too many. ;o) Just sayin'.

So if that is some proof of "socialism" at work in Europe, it doesn't actually "prove" anything.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Technically Britain is a Social democracy, which on the sliding scale is not all the way over to socialism (meaning a centralized economy), but it's not NOT socialist. Arguably a number of the programs it has are socialist ideologically.

People are currently rioting in the UK. The police shooting was the spark for this specific riot, but we're essentially seeing the result of austerity laws, meaning laws that have taken way their normal social benefits. The result is socialist revolution, and the working class, the most affected by these policies, rising up in protest against conservatives.

But you have to HAVE those programs in order to get rid of them and have people rioting to get them back, y'dig?

Sweden is probably the closest European nation to socialism. It's a welfare state, in other words a mixed economy (some parts capitalism and some parts socialism).

Most nations in the world are a mixed economy to some degree or another (including China, which was established as a Communist nation, as we all know). The US doesn't have quite as many socialist elements in its economy as others.

Very nice, Byte. Well written and edifying, for me at least. Presents, as far as I know, a very accurate portrayal of "socialism", as well as the fact that most nations have a mix; ergo calling anything purely "Socialist ____________" is inaccurate on its face. Thank you.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:16 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

No mention of the fact that we, along with the majority of Americans, want to cut spending ALONG with raising taxes (or even just closing loopholes and subsidies, to oil companies, who are among the only ones making huge profits in this time of scarcity)...no, it's gotta be all extremes, liberals are to blame for EVERYTHING, there is no moderation, there is no middle ground...



Yup. That's pretty much why I stopped bothering to treat ol' Kirk like he was anything other than the boot-licking fascist neo-con tea-bagger that he's shown himself to be.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Damn Kwicko, you cant respond to anything without including one of your homoerotic fantasies.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:23 PM

BYTEMITE


ehhh... Marxist/Leninism as socialism? I mean it's communism, which is a subset, but comparing all socialism to that isn't quite right.

I mean, Fabian socialism is different, as are many others. Anarcho-socialism is even more so.

EDIT: Hmm, I think you were getting at this, but only elaborating on Marxist/Leninism makes this unclear.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Huh. So Rappy is upset that someone asked him for cites and then acknowledged them when he finally provided some?

I know it will come as a complete shock to Rappy, but that's actually what you're supposed to do when someone provides the info you've asked for. Rappy's method is to ignore it, leave the thread, and then post his same old bullshit two weeks later in another thread, without ever acknowledging that he was conclusively proven wrong in the first thread.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 12:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I thought I said that there aren't any purely socialistic nations, but there are nations in Europe and elsewhere which incorporate many socialist ideas in their form of govt.




Hell, there's one right here in the U.S. that does that as well, and has for as long as there's been a U.S.A.


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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

No mention of the fact that we, along with the majority of Americans, want to cut spending ALONG with raising taxes (or even just closing loopholes and subsidies, to oil companies, who are among the only ones making huge profits in this time of scarcity)...no, it's gotta be all extremes, liberals are to blame for EVERYTHING, there is no moderation, there is no middle ground...



Yup. That's pretty much why I stopped bothering to treat ol' Kirk like he was anything other than the boot-licking fascist neo-con tea-bagger that he's shown himself to be.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Damn Kwicko, you cant respond to anything without including one of your homoerotic fantasies.




Says the guy who has a semi-nude Frazetta male as his avatar... Projecting much?

Sorry, Kirk, I'm not the man you're looking for. ;) Good luck finding him, though - I support your right to gay marriage when you finally find Mr. Right!

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:41 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

No mention of the fact that we, along with the majority of Americans, want to cut spending ALONG with raising taxes (or even just closing loopholes and subsidies, to oil companies, who are among the only ones making huge profits in this time of scarcity)...no, it's gotta be all extremes, liberals are to blame for EVERYTHING, there is no moderation, there is no middle ground...



Yup. That's pretty much why I stopped bothering to treat ol' Kirk like he was anything other than the boot-licking fascist neo-con tea-bagger that he's shown himself to be.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Damn Kwicko, you cant respond to anything without including one of your homoerotic fantasies.




Says the guy who has a semi-nude Frazetta male as his avatar... Projecting much?

Sorry, Kirk, I'm not the man you're looking for. ;) Good luck finding him, though - I support your right to gay marriage when you finally find Mr. Right!


You know of course that just the fact that you responded makes you my bitch. Glad my Avatar arouses you, but I don't think Frazetta was going for a gay audience. He does just one painting without a nude slave girl and you guys claim it for your own.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 2:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So you admit to wanting to be my bitch - why else would you respond to me, after all.

How awesome that you've decided to come out on a web forum. Your lucky fella must be proud.

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Tuesday, August 9, 2011 2:19 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So you admit to wanting to be my bitch - why else would you respond to me, after all.

How awesome that you've decided to come out on a web forum. Your lucky fella must be proud.


Sorry Kwicko, I just assumed from you previous posts that you'd want to assume the feminine role. It's been fun but I have to go now, meeting the guys down at the bath house to look at Frazetta prints.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 2:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

nickerson, you're full of shit.

You're simply parroting the same nonsense that others have said on here, simply because they don't agree w/ my point of view. I've given evidence and proof a plenty, but just as you've shown here, when I do so, you never acknowledge it.

So, what's the point ? I see none.



You claimed many countries make people get a license to watch TV. You gave one link for the UK. That I did not ignore I addressed. Just because your link shows that UK has TV licenses does not mean a lack of freedom, or that the country is Socialist. Socialist countries would not make people pay a separate license; it would come out of government revenue from government owned production.

Oh, and since you seem to equate free over the air TV with freedom, you should know that the FCC is pushing to use those signals for mobile broadband. I will what for the "FCC/Obama is taking away my freedom" speech.

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2011/04/26/fcc-trying-to-take-back-ota-
spectrum
/

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 7:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


nickerson - nothing in your reply remotely disputes the facts.

ME not providing a link on the topic doesn't disprove your ignorance.


On this matter, I'm done w/ you.



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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:48 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
nickerson - nothing in your reply remotely disputes the facts.

ME not providing a link on the topic doesn't disprove your ignorance.


On this matter, I'm done w/ you.



Fine, be done. You don't have to participate for me to make you look like a coward and a fool.

What facts doesn’t it dispute? The fact is you did not post anything that indicated that multiple countries make people get TV license. They very well may. You just have not shown that to be true.

Or are you talking about the fact that making people get a TV license does not make a country socialist, or take away freedoms. You don't even understand what socialism entails.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:25 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, in a way the tv licenses can create a limit of access to information for the poor, which is a control mechanism and which can also result in disenfranchisement. Especially when the information media is intended for the public in general, so you can see how this is counterintuitive. Really, it seems like the only reason to have licenses for anything is just so people can be jerks about it.

It's like having roads that are meant for the public, but restricting whether people can use them - oh wait.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:07 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Making people get a TV license is disgusting and abhorant to me. What about all the poorer people who can't afford that? What about the people who need to know the news if there's an emergency but they don't get to see it because they don't have a TV license? Because ya know they'll make one get a computer license and a radio license next. When we all had to go get converter boxes it pissed me off something fierce, we didn't get to vote on that, they just shoved it down our throats. Totally inconvenient and my TVs don't work any better than before, in fact they work worse because the signal is always getting lost, rutting idiots. Who ever came up with that idea was mean, if we'd voted and said yes then that would be one thing, but to make us all do that if we wanted to have basic channels? Trash all of them. Luh suh, that's what. Note that I'm being really harsh here, it was just totally unfair.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:22 PM

KIRKULES


Given the UK's socialist leanings, I think it's most likely that the license fees are used to give the poor free HBO and Showtime.

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:05 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Making people get a TV license is disgusting and abhorant to me. What about all the poorer people who can't afford that? What about the people who need to know the news if there's an emergency but they don't get to see it because they don't have a TV license? Because ya know they'll make one get a computer license and a radio license next. When we all had to go get converter boxes it pissed me off something fierce, we didn't get to vote on that, they just shoved it down our throats. Totally inconvenient and my TVs don't work any better than before, in fact they work worse because the signal is always getting lost, rutting idiots. Who ever came up with that idea was mean, if we'd voted and said yes then that would be one thing, but to make us all do that if we wanted to have basic channels? Trash all of them. Luh suh, that's what. Note that I'm being really harsh here, it was just totally unfair.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



It might not too much longer and the over air broad cast may go away completely. TV stations have little reason to continue them, and there is no mandate for them to do so.

I not one for slippery slope arguments so when they do require a computer or radio license the I will be more upset.

It should also be noted that watching TV programs online after the original broadcast does not require a person to have a license.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:32 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm definitely a "slippery slope" arguer, I can't imagine that changing anytime soon, I guess we just have different ideas about humanity and different ideas of what happens in cause and effect etc.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:26 PM

CONCHOBAR71


SignyM,

Many moons ago, we had our differences LOL (I believe it was over Yellowcake, instead I was forced to eat crow). In this case I agree with you. Somewhere a billionaire banker is rubbing his boney fingers together as he reads the prepared statement he had drafted, as he quietly shifted his money into stocks that will be unaffected and watches as the market crashes. Only to begin buying up all the fiercely devalued stocks to begin anew.

~ I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here and here and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.~ Hospitaller, Kingdom of Heaven


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Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, in a way the tv licenses can create a limit of access to information for the poor, which is a control mechanism and which can also result in disenfranchisement. Especially when the information media is intended for the public in general, so you can see how this is counterintuitive. Really, it seems like the only reason to have licenses for anything is just so people can be jerks about it.

It's like having roads that are meant for the public, but restricting whether people can use them - oh wait.




Yyyyyup. Whether you want to use the roads or not, you have to pay for them. And if you want to USE them, the government - even the beloved STATE governments that the tea-baggers want to run everything - make you get [*GASP!*] - A LICENSE!

So much for "freedom", eh?

I certainly can't get 100+ channels with nothing but an antenna on my TV. More like 3 channels. For any more than that, I need a subscription of some sort. Call it a "license" that I have to buy from a corporation, who charges well more the $149 per year for it. Usually more like $149 PER MONTH.

Guess it just goes to show how socialist we are.


Oh, as to disenfranchisement - here in the U.S., there's a current move on to make it much harder to people to vote, and to make sure that they have to pay for the privilege (after all, if you have to pay, it's not a "right", is it?), by requiring photo ID to vote, and charging them to get that photo ID. Call it a poll tax, because that's what it truly is. It's specifically designed to get the poor to not vote, because if you have $16 to your name, you're more likely to buy food than you are to buy an ID card.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Given the UK's socialist leanings, I think it's most likely that the license fees are used to give the poor free HBO and Showtime.




Betcha can't find any cites to back up that assertion, though.

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Making people get a TV license is disgusting and abhorant to me. What about all the poorer people who can't afford that? What about the people who need to know the news if there's an emergency but they don't get to see it because they don't have a TV license? Because ya know they'll make one get a computer license and a radio license next. When we all had to go get converter boxes it pissed me off something fierce, we didn't get to vote on that, they just shoved it down our throats. Totally inconvenient and my TVs don't work any better than before, in fact they work worse because the signal is always getting lost, rutting idiots. Who ever came up with that idea was mean, if we'd voted and said yes then that would be one thing, but to make us all do that if we wanted to have basic channels? Trash all of them. Luh suh, that's what. Note that I'm being really harsh here, it was just totally unfair.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




Should people be forced to have cable? After all, poor people can't afford it, and some areas you don't get much - or ANY - reception without either cable or satellite TV.

Is there no other way besides TV to get weather warnings and the like? (NOAA weather radios come to mind...)

As to the switch to digital TV and the converter boxes, that was the work of the GOP majority in Congress in 2005. But keep voting for Republicans; maybe one day they'll actually DO something "small government" with all that power y'all keep giving 'em. Hasn't happened yet, of course, but there's always a first time. ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:20 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Top Gear alone is worth 149 pounds a year!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Top Gear alone is worth 149 pounds a year!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.




Indeed it is!

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:18 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


The TV license is not about control or restriction; it's a form of taxation, that funds the BBC. People that don't want a TV don't pay the tax.

Certain disadvantaged categories (disabled, over 75s) get the TV licence free.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:41 PM

BYTEMITE


I dunno... My brother said he had some kind of Arabic tv license or something due to the neighborhood and apartment he lived in, and I don't think that was for the BBC.

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