REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Does Obama have a chance being re-elected?

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 09:16
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Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:06 PM

OPPYH


http://www.piie.com/realtime/?p=2324
Not according to the 'Misery Index'.

I was also watching the news the other day, and heard something very disturbing. Apparently he is expected to lose 1/3rd of the African American vote at the polls next time. They cut to a little segment of a rally of some sort, an elderly African American woman stated "Obama hasn't done nothin for our people". ???
I was more puzzled than anything. Didn't know the presidency was a racial affair.


I like Obama. I will vote for him again although I think it would take three terms of him in office to fix the mess we are currently in.


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Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have been frequently disappointed by President Obama, but most of the alternatives seem horrific to me.

If Ron Paul doesn't get the GOP nomination, I will be voting for Obama... barring some other surprise candidate that knocks my socks off.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:03 PM

DREAMTROVE


I couldn't vote for Obama now, it would be like voting for Bush. If Ron Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination, I'll be voting 3rd party.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 1:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Hope not.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Does Obama have a chance? Well, he probably SHOULDN'T have a chance at re-election, and he's probably the worst candidate running - except for every Republican in the race, of course.

I wish somebody on the left would primary his ass, but it's not going to happen. And at this point I wish Ron Paul would get the nod from the GOP, but that's not likely either. Although I *did* see where MSNBC made quite a big deal of his latest straw poll win (California) yesterday. Maybe the media has decided they couldn't ignore him anymore.

At this point, I have no real idea who I'll be voting for. Not Rick Perry.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA



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Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:48 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Does Obama have a chance? Well, he probably SHOULDN'T have a chance at re-election, and he's probably the worst candidate running - except for every Republican in the race, of course.


But don't you think he just walked into the mess Bush created. Not like he is standing still, it is just that things take time to change.

I also agree with many that he hasn't lived up to his promise.




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Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:56 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


On promises Obama is not doing to bad.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Does Obama have a chance? Well, he probably SHOULDN'T have a chance at re-election, and he's probably the worst candidate running - except for every Republican in the race, of course.


But don't you think he just walked into the mess Bush created. Not like he is standing still, it is just that things take time to change.

I also agree with many that he hasn't lived up to his promise.





Well, yeah - of course he walked into a shitstorm of a mess. It's what he did after that - or rather, what he DIDN'T do - that is what he'll be re-elected on, or not.

There's never been a moment when I regretted voting for Obama or wished I'd voted for McCain, but I have regretted some of the things Obama has done.

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:49 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Will Obama be reelected? Probably, given the alternatives put forth thus far. I wish there were some better alternatives. I'm surely not voting for him, but I'm not voting for perry either.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 10:09 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Obama may lose the election, but it won't come at the hands of any of the current Republican candidates. This very weak field may prompt someone else, perhaps someone relatively solid, to come into the Republican race after the primaries start if it looks like the front-runner can't beat Obama.









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Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:57 PM

SIMONWHO


Obama has made the best of an appallingly bad situation. I think a lot of Americans didn't grasp quite how bad the situation was. What's worse is that they still don't hence any action he or Congress to legislate against a reoccurence is labelled class warfare or taxing 'job creators'.

You don't want to know how much worse it could get.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 3:25 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


A lot of people hear keep saying they wish there was a better candidate. My questions is, what would that better candidate be like?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 4:12 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonWho:
Obama has made the best of an appallingly bad situation. I think a lot of Americans didn't grasp quite how bad the situation was. What's worse is that they still don't hence any action he or Congress to legislate against a reoccurence is labelled class warfare or taxing 'job creators'.

You don't want to know how much worse it could get.



Hello,

I do not agree that he has done the best job possible. He has backed laws and blocked the prosecution of laws that detail civil rights abuses. To say that it could have been worse is not saying that it's the best it could be.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 4:17 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
A lot of people hear keep saying they wish there was a better candidate. My questions is, what would that better candidate be like?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Hello,

A better candidate would be in favor of ending our military adventurism.

A better candidate would express disagreement with the desire not to pursue illegal wiretappers.

A better candidate would wonder why we haven't already ended our policy of indefinite detainment, and why, after so many years, we still can't conduct public trials of people who have supposedly committed criminal acts against this nation.

A better candidate would promise to end the security theater, and when confronted about the possibility of future attacks, will explain that a free society must be a brave society. That bravery does not come from whittling away freedom in exchange for a sense of security, but rather in proudly enduring its dangers.

These things would make me very interested in a candidate.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I wish somebody on the left would primary his ass, but it's not going to happen.
The progressive caucus of the CA Dem party has issued a resolution calling for a contender in the primary. Good on them!

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:14 AM

BYTEMITE


I grasp how bad the situation was when he took office, I just didn't think he'd pour more money, bombs, and bullets into new foreign wars.

Also, he rolled over for BP on the oil spill, and the thing is still a huge freakin' mess, now we have oil AND surfactant coating the sea floor and a big die-off of gulf fish and blue crabs. And if the administration hadn't been playing hurry up with off-shore drilling to increase oil yields to cover for a possible war with Iran, that debacle might not have happened.

And he still hasn't closed Gitmo (although I realize there's substantial resistance to that) and the PATRIOT Act was reinstated (which most people do not want).

So, I think I'm justified in being pretty pissed off.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:22 AM

SIMONWHO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

I do not agree that he has done the best job possible. He has backed laws and blocked the prosecution of laws that detail civil rights abuses. To say that it could have been worse is not saying that it's the best it could be.

--Anthony



Yup. And yet when you look at the President that preceded him and the Republican candidates hankering for his job and indeed the attitudes of Hilary Clinton who clearly felt it was her Presidency by right, Obama's far more liberal.

The prospect of President Bachmann is quite astoundingly terrifying and I'll only have to face the third hand consequences.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think what most liberals fail to realize is that Obama really has been as bad as Bush. He has done nothing to redress the Bush wrongs, and in some cases made things a lot worse: expanded wars, called for indefinite preventive detention, increased the use of Predator drones, shoveled more money at the rich.

He NOW finds himself in a compromised position -well, he's been compromising all along, so it should come as no surprise. He ran on a campaign of hope and change and here we are: in the same situation as we were when the Presidency changed hands.

Now, I realize that thanks to a 40-year pro-corporate anti-government campaign the government itself faces a divided populace. HOWEVER, Obama has not created a narrative that would allow our collective problems to be solved collectively; he has conceded the terms of debate. Nobody knows where he stands. And NOW that he wants everyone to back him on the Jobs Bill, his base is stepping back and saying... We were with you on the public option, Social Security, closing Gitmo, and helping Main Street and you fucker stabbed us in the back. Thanks but no thanks

Payback, she's a bitch, yanno?

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There is ONE thing I can get behind, tho: Tax millionaires.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:48 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

A better candidate would promise to end the security theater, and when confronted about the possibility of future attacks, will explain that a free society must be a brave society. That bravery does not come from whittling away freedom in exchange for a sense of security, but rather in proudly enduring its dangers.



Funny enough, this is what I think when I have endured TSA checkpoints, "this is one of the prices of being free."
And I'll take bad theatre any day over doing nothing...

I can't imagine anyone beating Obama. Bachman and Perry will fade - they are entertaining now and they are good for clicks so you will read about them for a while longer, but eventually people will realize, "yup, crazy." Dr. Ron was never a possibility - does the man have any teeth? I've never seen him smile - I don't care, but millions of voters probably do on a most basic level no matter how good his ideas are. Mitt will be the GOP candidate, and I think he'll give Obama a run, but he just won't be strong enough. Unfortunately, this will give O. a sense of a mandate, not unlike Bush #2. But, what are you going to do?

ETA - "what are you going to do?" other than hope he will get better with experience.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, September 19, 2011 5:48 AM

BYTEMITE


Sig, right with you here. On everything that I actually voted for Obama for (and I actually DID vote for Obama), he has disappointed me in the extreme.

I'm so disappointed that I don't have it in me to trust enough to ever vote again.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Disappointed? Well, there are ppl smarter than I... Rue, for one... who predicted this. She sat back and looked at candidate Obama and his record and told me bluntly more than once Obama is a game player, not a game-changer. And what I was thinking... silly me!... Does anyone really expect they can campaign so aggressively and then go back so far on their word as to be 180% away from where they started? Yes, I KNOW that Dem candidates campaign left and then shift right but still, his starting point is a long way to the left" The only thing Obama has managed is to repeal DADT. Yep, we can all be equal oppty cannon-fodder. Guess I was wrong!

The REALITY is that Obama has been afraid to offend TPTB- banks, insurances, the military and its contractors... yanno, the money-men. Re-election candidate Obama is hustling money... hard... from Wall Street. Sheesh.

You know what they say... fool me once...

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:04 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonWho:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

I do not agree that he has done the best job possible. He has backed laws and blocked the prosecution of laws that detail civil rights abuses. To say that it could have been worse is not saying that it's the best it could be.

--Anthony



Yup. And yet when you look at the President that preceded him and the Republican candidates hankering for his job and indeed the attitudes of Hilary Clinton who clearly felt it was her Presidency by right, Obama's far more liberal.





Hello,

Being far more liberal is a far cry from doing the best job possible. The least of all possible evils still stinks. I may be stuck with Obama, but I'll never hail him as having done the best job possible. He hasn't even done an adequate job.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:10 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Funny enough, this is what I think when I have endured TSA checkpoints, "this is one of the prices of being free."
And I'll take bad theatre any day over doing nothing..."

Hello,

I will have to disagree with you there. In fact, while the choice between 'security theatre' and 'doing nothing' is a false choice...

Doing nothing would have been the far less costly option for our country, both in terms of actual costs and in terms of freedoms surrendered.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:25 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Funny enough, this is what I think when I have endured TSA checkpoints, "this is one of the prices of being free."
And I'll take bad theatre any day over doing nothing..."

Hello,

I will have to disagree with you there. In fact, while the choice between 'security theatre' and 'doing nothing' is a false choice...

Doing nothing would have been the far less costly option for our country, both in terms of actual costs and in terms of freedoms surrendered.




You really can't know what would have happened without the theatre, can you? I can only speculate that our theatre is much the same as the venerated Israeli airport theater. Remember too - the way wall street acts when a terrorist act occurs, even fails. That kicks millions of average working stiffs in the gut in terms of the value of their retirement. I think we have exactly what the majority of us would put up with in terms of freedoms lost. I found it quite negligible, and I got the pat down.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Doing nothing WOULD have been better.

Obama bin Laden...he WON. He got us to destroy our own freedoms and bankrupt ourselves in a bunch of feckless wars of choice. Feh. "War on Terrorism". Likely to be as successful as the "War on (Some) Drugs". Seems like anytime you declare a war against something other than an actual army, you're bound to fail.

Anyway, back to OBama. We should be able to vote for a people's candidate, not a business candidate. That leaves out the Tea leaves, the GOP, many Dems, and some third-party candidates. But I refuse to vote for anything less.

And yes, I know... Michele Bachman would be a horror show, as would Rick Perry. And people WILL vote for the lesser of two weevils. But the only way to pressure a candidate is with the knowledge that people with vote for someone else. So I'm going to put a boot up Obama's ass... insignificant as my boot might be... and vote third party.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I don't see why he'd doubling down on an already failed policy, more spending, with lip service to making the necessary cuts, all while amping up the division between Americans with his class warfare rhetoric.

His policies won't work. He's already stated, time and time again, that he's more interested in his phony definition of "fairness " than doing what's sound and economically , fiscally right.

Soaking the rich isn't the answer. They didn't cause this crisis, and taking more from producers with out addressing the run away spending by the federal govt will achieve nothing, but to shove this country further and further into a depression.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:31 AM

BYTEMITE


Again, right on, Sig. It's too bad most of us missed the interview where Obama said he would represent no real change in policy from Bush when he was campaigning, we might have seen more of the warning signs.

I also wish I'd been on these boards that November, I might have not made such a colossal mistake.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy, the nation stayed afloat on bunch of fake money that the banks flooded the economy with. BANKS have the ability to literally multiply the money supply by a factor of more than eight... because they are only required to have about 12% of the money they loan out as actual cash-in-hand. The rest they make up as they go along. And when they start selling their assets to other banks, they get to do this over and over in a daisy-chain of money-making.

You cannot cut the money supply by 20% or more and still have a functioning economy, which is what the financial meltdown did. The economy depends on money changing hands ... buying and selling, lending and investing. Once that money stops changing hands, the economic activity stops. The economy withers.

ANOTHER entity has to step in an make up the flow of money. And if it wants to do this w/o creating debt, it needs to raise taxes on the wealthy and redistribute it to the 90%, so that those people will once again start buying stuff, and factories can once again start production, and start rehiring people.

If you want to be a capitalist, you need to look at the flow of "capital" (money). As the song says: Money makes the world go 'round...


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Monday, September 19, 2011 6:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The 'banks' didn't do anything what the govt didn't allowed them to do and even forced them to do, for purely political reasons.

This has been debated and discussed ad nauseum, but you just want to focus on the " evil rich". I got news for ya, there will always be rich, and super rich folks. Even in the old Soviet Union, there were super wealthy folks, but far fewer, and a hell of a lot more living in poverty. But hey, it was more 'fair' back then, right ? More folks had less $, and only the very few had lots of it.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 7:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy, the only person who is debating this is you. Economists and regulators have gone over the data with a fine-tooth comb, and what they have found is a lot of BANK AND LENDER FRAUD. (Cuntrywide being the most notorious.)

In fact, it got SO bad in during the BUSH years that several States Attorney General (including NY) tried to take the banks to court to force them into more honest lending practices, and the BUSH administration prevented the states from filing charges against the banks, claiming this was a Federal regulatory issue. So if anyone "allowed" or "forced" the banks to do anything, it was Bush.

You claim you want to settle things reasonably but reason isn't part of your mental armamentarium. All you ever manage to do is stuff your fingers in your ears and say La la la. I can't hear you. And that is why I call you a flat-earther and generally refuse to engage in conversation, because despite being presented with actual facts, you refuse to learn. Ignorance is one thing, but being willful about it...

Now, I dare you to prove me wrong. You bring some facts and figures to the table, not just blank assertions and apparently baseless opinions, and I'll listen. Specifically, you might want to tell me what percentage of the troubled loans were purchased by Fannie and Freddie, and how many were issued independently of that program. And you might want to explain HOW Fannie and Freddie affected the real-estate loans in Britain, Spain, France, Portugal etc. Really. I insist. Otherwise your whole argument turns into a pile of go-se. Stop blathering. Get some data.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 7:18 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
There is ONE thing I can get behind, tho: Tax millionaires.



YES! Maybe the smartest proposel that will never happen

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Monday, September 19, 2011 7:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Sig, I already have proved you wrong, and this is what falls under the 'ad nauseum' category. It's been fully explained, more than once, that much of this fiasco has to do w/ Fannie and Freddie, guaranteeing high risk loans to folks who had no damn business in the first place buying a home. The banks were FORCED to lend to these people, thanks in large part Democrats, going back to the Clinton era.

I'm not going to have this discussion again. Sad fact is, the Dems are pushing for more of the same, having learned nothing from the last / current housing collapse.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 7:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Sig, I already have proved you wrong
rappy, you've already "proven" me wrong? Facts and figures? Really? Prove it. Bring it, man.

Quote:

much of this fiasco has to do w/ Fannie and Freddie, guaranteeing high risk loans
Did they also guarantee British and Spanish home loans?

Fascinating!

The earth really IS flat!

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Monday, September 19, 2011 7:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"The 'banks' didn't do anything what the govt didn't allowed them to do and even forced them to do, for purely political reasons."

Hello,

Were banks 'allowed' to do what they did? Most certainly.

Were they 'required' to do what they did? Most definitely not.

Most of the questionable lending practices undertaken during the banking/financial crisis were motivated from within, in the interests of making money. Banks entered a race with each other to see who could lower lending standards faster and sign the most loans. It was madness, and I continuously shook my head in wonderment as I saw DSR, LTV, and Proof of Income requirements changed time and again to become more lenient, so that more people could qualify and get more money with payments that would be harder and harder for them to make. Eventually it seemed like there was almost no way to get denied for a loan. I saw questionable appraisals being accepted without question, and I saw no effort to stop using the appraisal providers who were clearly gaming the system.

None of this was mandated by the government.

It started with bad lenders, Countrywide was among the worst. But as this behavior went on and the dollars started going to the competition, the more responsible banks felt the irresistible temptation to start reducing their lending standards as well so that they could stay competitive. Then even the most responsible lenders felt the same temptation. In order to stay competitive in a business where everyone is being irresponsible, the pressure to become irresponsible is hard to resist.

The bank I work for is among what I consider to be the most conservative and responsible of lending institutions, and their exposure to this slippery slide was less than most of their competitors. But even so, I think if the wild ride had gone on for much longer, we would have proved no better at resisting temptation than the others. It just would have taken us a bit longer to reach their depths because we were chasing the trend and not leading it.

So, the short story is this, Raptor: I feel very strongly that you are wrong. The banks weren't forced into this behavior by government. It was appetite that ruled the day, followed by survival instinct.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 9:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The earth never was flat, and you were never right.

Anthony, I don't care how strongly you ' feel ' I'm wrong, I'm not.












And the most comprehensive, telling video...



( Note both the dates of certain comments - when given - and the tone by those defending Freddie and Fannie, injecting race and violent rhetoric into a discussion, which was completely out of line. Even Bill Clinton conceded that the Dems resisted the GOP's attempts to regulate Fannie and Freddie. Don't know how it can be made more clear than that. )


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:04 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mr. Raptor,

I think it's important for you to understand that my feelings on this matter are not whimsical, but based on my experiences and observations from within the apparatus of the banking industry. From my perspective, I can tell which decisions are being made as a result of government mandates and which decisions are being made as a result of company policy and internal decision-making. I also have the opportunity to review the loan process of other companies because those documents come over during a refinance process. Refinances were exceedingly popular during the bubble period due to escalating home values. Throughout the Real Estate boom, it was possible to see the decisioning process of banks erode as a result of internal decisions and in response to a desire to remain competitive.

I do not know what alternate experiences you may have had in this arena, but at the moment it seems you are holding your position as an article of faith and not as the result of experience in the field.

Please understand that whatever influence the government had on the crisis was peripheral. The banks quickly gained their own momentum and rode this particular train right off a cliff.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


As with the ruse of religion, I hold no faith on this matter. I've provided more than ample evidence to support my view, and you've casually dismissed and ignored it, simply because you don't want to take the time to view what I've posted.

The banks ran with this 'train', as you say, because the Imperial Federal Govt gave them no choice.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:48 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor: I've provided more than ample evidence to support my view"


I'm pretty sure by this point you have no idea what evidence is.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



M52, then you'd be wrong. And why I'm wasting my time with you , is beyond me.


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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:56 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

M52, then you'd be wrong.



Great witty response, what did you learn that in 2nd or 3rd grade?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 10:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



When you can comment on the items I've posted, which are specific to the discussion at hand, I'll reply. Until then, have a great day.


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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:13 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

When you can comment on the items I've posted, which are specific to the discussion at hand, I'll reply. Until then, have a great day.



Okay,

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The 'banks' didn't do anything what the govt didn't allowed them to do and even forced them to do, for purely political reasons.



Your right the banks did not do anything illegal, thanks to the lack of regulations. Had the Glass-Steagle act still been around the whole sub-prime mess would not have happened.

Second that government did not force banks to make bad loans. If you think that you are grossly uniformed. The Community Re-investment act simple forced banks to have to considered loans for people making less then an arbitrary amount the bank set. It did not stipulate how much those loans had to be for, nor stated that they had to be made in all cases.

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:This has been debated and discussed ad nauseum, but you just want to focus on the " evil rich". I got news for ya, there will always be rich, and super rich folks. Even in the old Soviet Union, there were super wealthy folks, but far fewer, and a hell of a lot more living in poverty. But hey, it was more 'fair' back then, right ? More folks had less $, and only the very few had lots of it.


Your right there will always be rich people. Your whole argument is a strawman. It is not because the rich are evil that people are calling for them to be taxed more, but because when you take into account all the types of taxes they don't pay there fair share.

Not to mention that it is an fact that since Reagan got his tax cuts which favored the rich the wealth gaps has continued to widen.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mr. Raptor,

Let me give you an example of specific Home Equity bank behaviors that were not ordered or even encouraged by the Federal government. These behaviors were common in varying degrees amongst multiple institutions, and helped contribute to the Real Estate Bubble. Note that I will only mention behaviors I am personally aware of from personal experience.

1) Using corrupt appraisers who would return the precise value you require in order to lend on a property, regardless as to whether that value is actually supportable by evidence.

2) Increasing DSR, or Debt-to-Service ratio lending limits. In 2004, the common acceptable DSR was 45%. That is, your monthly debt commitments could be up to 45 percent of your monthly income. Within a few years, that limit was at 55% even within 'responsible' lending institutions. In less responsible institutions, it could climb as high as 65%.

3) Increasing LTV, or Loan To Value lending limits. In 2004, a common acceptable limit was 80%LTV. That is, the bank would lend up to 80% of the value of a home. Within a few years, some loans were being offered at 110%LTV. That is, we are loaning you 10% more money than your house was actually worth.

4) Calculating DSR on a dual-feature product based on the lowest rate even when that rate wasn't practical. I will explain: Lines of Credit have a low, low interest rate that fluctuates. They also sometimes have an option to convert to a loan at a much higher interest rate. This option could be chosen at inception, so that you could get a Line product and Lock it immediately at the higher rate as part of the initial product. However, when computing the customer's ability to pay, the Line of Credit rate was used, and not the Loan rate, even though the customer was already converting to a Loan. This caused loans to be issued in cases where the DSR exceeded lendable limits because the phantom line rate was being used inappropriately for such calculations. Sometimes this was done specifically so a customer who could not qualify for a loan could get the loan anyway by exploiting the Line conversion feature EVEN THOUGH IT WAS KNOWN THE CUSTOMER WOULD HAVE TROUBLE MEETING THEIR OBLIGATIONS.

5) Failure to Verify or Secure Lien Position. The Banks grew lax in their verification of lien position. This means that in the event of a foreclosure, they may not be able to recoup losses because they are not where they thought they'd be in the sequence of collection. This also caused a peripheral problem. When you do not accurately identify all the liens on a property, you may miss the presence of other loans and mortgages. This caused some homes to be indebted to 2 times their already inflated value.

6) Failure to Verify Income. This was, to me, one of the most incomprehensible decisions the banks made. No paystubs, No W2's, No Tax Returns. The customer says they're earning tons of money? Fine. We just write down the amount and take their word for it. So our inflated DSR figures were probably based on inaccurate data anyway. This is just the customer's problem, right? Wrong. The banks usually lose money on foreclosures (especially when you don't secure your lien position and lend in excess of the home value) and so the banks were setting themselves up for incredible losses. You never want to foreclose, and you don't want to set up a situation where your customer is likely to default.

I hope now that you have specific witnessed examples of how the banks contributed to their own crisis, you will acknowledge that the reality of the situation was much broader than you imagined.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

It is not because the rich are evil that people are calling for them to be taxed more, but because when you take into account all the types of taxes they don't pay there fair share.



They actually pay far more than their fair share. And it's not even remotely close.

The problem isn't that we're not taxed enough, it's that we're spending far too much.

But Obama and the Dems ARE painting the 'rich' as being evil, greedy, how ever you want to paint it, simply because they want to keep some of what they earn.

Wanna talk strawmen ? Here's a great example...

‘YOU DON’T DESERVE TO KEEP ALL’ YOUR MONEY…SAYS DEM REP. SCHAKOWSKY


Quote:

In a interview with Chicago’s Don Wade & Roma radio show this morning, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky claimed that Americans aren’t entitled to all of their own money.

Toward the end of a wide-ranging interview, the hosts played a clip from this week’s Republican Presidential Debate where California teenager Tyler Hinsley asked, “Of every dollar that I earn, how much do you think I deserve to keep?” Co-host Don Wade asked Schakowsky to answer the same question.

After some initial back-and-forth, she replied, “I’ll put it this way, you don’t deserve to keep all of it. It’s not a question of deserving, because what government is, is those things that we decide to do together.”

Despite the hosts’ persistence, Schakowsky declined to answer what percentage of a person’s income they deserved to keep. “I pay at a 35% tax rate, happy to do it,” she explained when the hosts persisted with their question. She again declined to say how much more she would personally be willing to pay.

But Rep. Schakowsky is not alone. Her views are sadly typical of a liberal worldview that sees a person’s earnings as belonging first to the state. In fact, the left is now doubling down on this misguided belief, with the President pushing for more stimulus spending despite the failures of earlier “stimulus.”

But while the left continues to promote the same failed policies—more taxes, more regulation, more big government—conservatives need to trumpet the benefits of low taxes, sensible regulations, and small government. As Heritage’s Dubay explains:

The best way to grow revenues is to promote faster economic growth, which will increase the number of taxpayers and taxable income more rapidly. Tax hikes—whether through higher tax rates or slashing credits, deductions, and exemptions without offsetting reductions elsewhere—will not do the job. Under President Obama’s current policies, spending will continue to grow at a faster rate than can be paid for by tax hikes—even assuming the huge tax increases the President insists upon. To add insult to injury, as history has shown, tax hikes would slow economic growth and make it even harder for unemployed Americans to find a job.


http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/14/congresswoman-jan-schakowsky-you-d
ont-deserve-to-keep-all-your-money
/







" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:42 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Everybody knows black folk love Obama...













Quote:

"Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet."
-Hussein Obama Soetoro
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=297609#ixzz1MA1K19BK

"We invented all kinds of ways to obtain false identity papers, and got busy building multiple sets of ID for each of us and for every contingency. We soon figured out that the deepest and most foolproof ID had a government-issued Social Security card at its heart."
-Bill Ayres, terrorist bomber in Weather Underground for CIA's Operation Northwoods, confessed author of Obama's "autobiography" Dreams of My Father

"Obama is a radical Communist. He's going to destroy this country, and we're either going to stop him, or the United States of America is going to cease to exist."
-Ambassador Alan Keyes PhD, black candidate for president against Obama in 2008
http://loyaltoliberty.blogspot.com

"Being an American is not a matter of blood or birth, it’s a matter of faith. Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, and then there are ignorant mutherfuckers like you! You can put lipstick on a pig. Sorry ass mutherfucker's got nuttin on me. I inhaled frequently - that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead. That's where I'd been headed. You ain't my bitch nigger, git your own damn fries!"
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father
http://www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/





"If I have to cross a line to blow that bitch out of the sky, I will."
-FBI Agent Erica Evans, V

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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:55 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

They actually pay far more than their fair share. And it's not even remotely close.



The top 10% control over 70% of the wealth, so no not paying their fair share.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-i
n-america-2010-4#half-of-america-has-25-of-the-wealth-2


Quote:

The problem isn't that we're not taxed enough, it's that we're spending far too much.


Right now government spending is what is supporting the economy. If anything we should be spending more right now. Look at the EU, all those austerity measures have really worked right?

Quote:

But Obama and the Dems ARE painting the 'rich' as being evil, greedy, how ever you want to paint it, simply because they want to keep some of what they earn.


No they are not, you should listen to what they are saying directly and not through the right wing talking points.

Quote:

Wanna talk strawmen ? Here's a great example...

‘YOU DON’T DESERVE TO KEEP ALL’ YOUR MONEY…SAYS DEM REP. SCHAKOWSKY



You should really look up what a strawman argument is.

She is right, you and I don't deserve to keep all the money we earn. That is the cost of living in this country.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 12:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



You're confusing wealth to income. It's not how much left over 'the rich' have, it's how much $ the federal govt gets from all of us, and how it then decides to use that $.

I know what a straw man argument is. Clearly, you do not. NO ONE has made the claim that we should allow the 'rich' to keep ALL of their money. It's a completely false position the Congresswoman is raising here.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 19, 2011 12:21 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

You're confusing wealth to income. It's not how much left over 'the rich' have, it's how much $ the federal govt gets from all of us, and how it then decides to use that $.



No, I'm not. The fact is if they were paying their fair share on their incomes the wealth gap would not be as big as it is and getting bigger.

Quote:

I know what a straw man argument is. Clearly, you do not. NO ONE has made the claim that we should allow the 'rich' to keep ALL of their money. It's a completely false position the Congresswoman is raising here.


Sure they are, each time some one states "the government has no right to take what I earn" they are making that argument. "


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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