REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Cain's electrified fence "joke"...and the real "joke" about 9-9-9

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, October 23, 2011 19:23
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3107
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Monday, October 17, 2011 4:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.”

But The New York Times, which reported on Cain making those comments during campaign stops over the weekend in Tennessee, didn’t see Cain’s comments in the same light at all, writing that they had not been presented as a joke, but as “serious commentary” that drew “cheers,” rather than laughter, from the audience.

Cain has in fact been making this “joke” - whether you see it that way or not - on the stump for some time. This video below was taken last May, in Council Bluffs, Iowa.

Watch it for yourself. Here’s the text of Cain’s remarks:

“We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2011/1017/Herman-Cain-joke-Elec
trified-fence-on-the-US-Mexico-border
now he say's it was a joke. Why am I not surprised the audience cheered rather than laughed? Because THEY took it seriously, of course, and they love the idea.

The man himself is the joke. His 9-9-9 sounds real nice, but when you look closely at it, IT's a joke, too...but a very, very bad one!
Quote:

If the Republican candidate's 9-9-9 tax plan – which would set up a 9 percent federal sales tax, 9 percent federal payroll tax, and 9 percent federal business tax – were to go into effect, the new federal sales tax would piggyback on top of state and local sales taxes already in existence.

As a result, sales taxes around the nation would be considerably higher than 9 percent.

The residents of Tennessee and Arizona would, on average, have to pay more than 18 percent in combined state, local, and federal taxes, using data from the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group in Washington.

At least 12 states would have average sales taxes over 17 percent. California, for example, would come in at a combined rate of 17.13 percent.

And residents of four states – Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon – would have to start paying a sales tax. Currently, they have none.

It's a glimpse of of the potential nationwide effects of Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan, which would result in a median national sales-tax rate of 15.8 percent, according to the Tax Foundation data. To compare sales taxes by state, the data average local sales taxes across each state, since they can vary widely from one locality to another. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2011/1014/Herman-Cain
-9-9-9-sticker-shock-18-sales-tax-possible-in-some-states

Anyone wanna guess what's REALLY behind it?
Quote:

To the Cain campaign, these statistics miss the point. Since personal taxes would drop significantly with only one, 9 percent tax rate, individuals would have more disposable income to buy things which would be more expensive, 9-9-9 backers say.
Yeah, right:
Quote:

“I understand his theory,” says Michelle Ahlman, executive director of the Arizona Retailers Association in Mesa.

But she worries about “sticker shock,” when customers see how much an item will be with the new sales tax. “People will balk at it and either turn to buying online or not spend at all,” she says.

So the rich would get even RICHER, and we'd all pay more for goods, which THEY can easily afford.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 4:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Much less attention is paid to the fact that his 9-9-9 plan is just an early step in his tax reform plans. (Taxes you'll still pay under Cain's plan)

Ultimately, Cain wants the country to adopt a Fair Tax. He's not the first presidential candidate to propose it. In 2008, for instance, Mike Huckabee made it a central part of his economic plan.

So what's a Fair Tax exactly?

In essence, it's a national sales tax that would replace the current tax code entirely and all the credits, deductions and exemptions that go along with it.

With a national sales tax you would pay federal tax on what you spend rather than on what you earn, save or invest. The idea is to make the tax system less of a hindrance to economic growth.

Cain hasn't offered any specifics on how he would set up a Fair Tax. But here's how the general proposal put forth by Fair Tax proponents would work.

You would pay what amounts to a 30% tax on top of the price of anything you purchase. So for something that costs $1 you would pay $1.30. The extra 30 cents represents 23% of the final purchase price ($1.30). That's why you will hear Fair Tax supporters say that the tax rate under the Fair Tax is just 23%.

A Fair Tax, like any tax that applies across the board to everyone regardless of income, would hit the poor harder than others. http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/17/news/economy/cain_999_plan/index.htm?h
pt=hp_t1
there you go. Another version of class warfare, disguised as "less income tax!"


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, October 17, 2011 5:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation's capital. But Cain's economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.

Cain's campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity, or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending. Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his "9-9-9" plan to rewrite the nation's tax code. And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans.

http://news.yahoo.com/long-ties-koch-brothers-key-cains-campaign-11051
8961.html


EDIT: I see you posted this under "the Rise of Cain" thread, which I didn't even read until now. (I no longer participate in- or even read- many threads)

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Monday, October 17, 2011 5:05 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


The video clip I saw he used the word " electrocuted," then went back and corrected himself to "electrified". The audience cheered the first version. He also went on to say, " Put up a sign that says, 'This fence will kill you.'" No doubt about what he meant.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 5:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think he was joking either, NewOld. Given he's said it several times, and it's not been laughed at, it's a pretty obvious "back-pedaling", as so many have done, on something he said that worked for his audience but which he has to deny to the general public.

Hey, works for him!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, October 17, 2011 5:15 AM

BYTEMITE


I heard that Cain got the idea for his 9-9-9 plan from a somewhat imperfect simulation game for city building and management. The 9% 9% and 9% are the default tax rates in the game.

Though I guess it could also be a coincidence.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 10:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Even farm animals learn not to come near an electrified fence.

Cain's right, again.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, October 17, 2011 10:57 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Even farm animals learn not to come near an
electrified fence."

It's hard to learn a 'lesson' when the first one kills you.

And once again, we see little Rappy for what he really is.

Geezer, do you really want to be seen as being on the same side as little Rappy? At this point you must be noticing he's a dead weight that will drag you under.


While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Monday, October 17, 2011 11:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Even farm animals learn not to come near an
electrified fence."

It's hard to learn a 'lesson' when the first one kills you.

And once again, we see little Rappy for what he really is.

Geezer, do you really want to be seen as being on the same side as little Rappy? At this point you must be noticing he's a dead weight that will drag you under.



Farm animals can't read, either. But they see one of their own get zapped, they can figure it out, I'm guessing.

Why am I 'little' , in your mind, simply because I have a defensible point of view, and you don't ?

And why are you addressing Geezer, who has yet to even respond to this thread ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, October 17, 2011 11:24 AM

BYTEMITE


...I think the main objection here is comparing human beings to farm animals.

Last I checked, we don't harvest illegal Mexican residents or border-jumpers for their meat. That's not even me getting into the discussion about whether that's an insult to their intelligence, or whether that's dehumanizing (yes to both).

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Monday, October 17, 2011 11:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"That's not even me getting into the discussion about whether that's an insult to their intelligence, or whether that's dehumanizing (yes to both)."

That was what I noticed.

While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Monday, October 17, 2011 11:39 AM

KIRKULES


I doubt Cain was entirely serious, but it is a pretty good idea. With a impenetrable barrier on to border many Mexican lives would be saved. Right now Mexicans die in the desert trying to cross, if they knew it was pointless to try they wouldn't put themselves in a position to die lost in the desert. It would also save the lives of border control agents that are killed by the criminals among the illegals. I think it's funny that the Libs here think Mexicans are to dumb to understand that concept of an electrified fence, they imagine thousands of dead Mexicans hanging from the border fence. If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 11:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



It's only an insult if one views illegals ( be they from Mexico or anywhere else ) as being on par with farm animals. My premise being, that since humans are unquestionably smarter than farm animals, then they'll learn fairly quickly to not try to climb a fence which likely is electrified. Signs and word of mouth, being clear enough warning that humans could figure out. Even with OUT visual and verbal warnings, farm animals can figure this out, so why should we not believe humans could ?

If anything, those trying to belittle the illegals to farm animal status aren't me.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I doubt Cain was entirely serious, but it is a pretty good idea. With a impenetrable barrier on to border many Mexican lives would be saved. Right now Mexicans die in the desert trying to cross, if they knew it was pointless to try they wouldn't put themselves in a position to die lost in the desert. It would also save the lives of border control agents that are killed by the criminals among the illegals. I think it's funny that the Libs here think Mexicans are to dumb to understand that concept of an electrified fence, they imagine thousands of dead Mexicans hanging from the border fence. If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.




Define "impenetrable".

An electric fence? Welcome to my rubber blanket factory, conveniently located next to the electric fence, on the Mexican side (cheap labor, natch).

A 20-foot wall? Welcome to my ladder factory, where our biggest selling ladder is the 21-footer. We also save money by stamping "Hecho en Mexico" on them, amigo!

I wonder what Herman Cain's reaction would be if the white folks in his town put up a lethal electric fence around the country club. Or the whites-only lunch counter. Would he have gotten the message?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Meanwhile, Cain says his plan would raise taxes...

Quote:

GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain acknowledged Sunday that his 9-9-9 plan would raise taxes for some Americans, Reuters reports.

"Some people will pay more. But most people will pay less," Cain, a former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza said on NBC's "Meet the Press," as reported by Reuters.



Most will pay less, some will pay more.

How come the right supports Cain when he says it, but vilifies Obama for saying the same thing?

Oh, that's right - Because Obama wants the richest 1% to be the ones paying more, not the poorest 50%.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I doubt Cain was entirely serious, but it is a pretty good idea. With a impenetrable barrier on to border many Mexican lives would be saved. Right now Mexicans die in the desert trying to cross, if they knew it was pointless to try they wouldn't put themselves in a position to die lost in the desert. It would also save the lives of border control agents that are killed by the criminals among the illegals. I think it's funny that the Libs here think Mexicans are to dumb to understand that concept of an electrified fence, they imagine thousands of dead Mexicans hanging from the border fence. If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.




How'd that concept work out for the U.S. in Iraq? Remember some contractors being killed and hanged from a bridge? Boy, that sure taught the U.S. a lesson about going into Iraq, didn't it? We got out quick, and never tried to send another person there! [/snark]

By the way, Kirk, I *do* think YOU are "to dumb" to understand, well... much of anything, really.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, October 17, 2011 3:37 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, Kirk, I *do* think YOU are "to dumb" to understand, well... much of anything, really.



Kwicko, you sad pathetic little puppy dog. I've told you before don't come to me any longer for your abuse. My pity for you overcame my dislike long ago. There are plenty around still willing to give you the abuse you feel you deserve but I hope some day you'll get the help you need to learn that while it may seem that negative attention is better than being ignored it's not. Thanks for thinking of me but I will now go back to ignoring you for your own good and hope others will do the same.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 4:12 PM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. Okay AuRaptor, but if even I was kind of going "...what?" then that means it was pretty easy to misunderstand you there.

I'll chalk it up to a miscommunication.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 4:18 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


An electric fence? Welcome to my rubber blanket factory, conveniently located next to the electric fence, on the Mexican side (cheap labor, natch).

A 20-foot wall? Welcome to my ladder factory, where our biggest selling ladder is the 21-footer. We also save money by stamping "Hecho en Mexico" on them, amigo!



Go-een eento competition weeth my chovel ( shovel) store, senoro. We deeg under thee pinche fence.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 6:07 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I bet that 30 years ago people thought we would have invented a forcefield by now, no more of that electrified stuff. But no, we still haven't invented a forcefield, just like we still don't have flying cars that drive themselves or a colony on Mars. Living in the future isn't all its cracked up to be.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, October 17, 2011 6:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, Kirk, I *do* think YOU are "to dumb" to understand, well... much of anything, really.



Kwicko, you sad pathetic little puppy dog. I've told you before don't come to me any longer for your abuse. My pity for you overcame my dislike long ago. There are plenty around still willing to give you the abuse you feel you deserve but I hope some day you'll get the help you need to learn that it my seem that negative attention is better than being ignored but it's not. Thanks for thinking of me but I will now go back to ignoring you for your own good and hope others will do the same.



So far, I'd have to say you're failing at the whole "ignoring" thing. Perhaps you don't know what the word means. Given the (very low) intelligence level of your previous posts, I'd have to say that's a distinct possibility.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, October 17, 2011 6:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


An electric fence? Welcome to my rubber blanket factory, conveniently located next to the electric fence, on the Mexican side (cheap labor, natch).

A 20-foot wall? Welcome to my ladder factory, where our biggest selling ladder is the 21-footer. We also save money by stamping "Hecho en Mexico" on them, amigo!



Go-een eento competition weeth my chovel ( shovel) store, senoro. We deeg under thee pinche fence.




Competition? Hell, we'll join forces and call ourselves a cartel!
I'm considering adding a line of fake DEA/ICE/DHS badges to the catalog, too. ;)


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.
Thus is explained why the crowd Cain was talking to cheered, rather than laughed at his "joke". I suppose Mexicans are too stupid to figure out how to dig UNDER a fence, too, by these people's thinking. Given the size of the open border, I think digging under it wouldn't be all that hard--they're still discovering tunnels all the time, aren't they?

Ooops, further down I see NewOld made my point, and Mike had several other good ideas. If a lot of people want to go somewhere over a miles-and-MILES-long stretch of land, barriers aren't going to stop them...slow down the volume, perhaps, at least for a time, until someone comes along with a better suggestion. But then hey, the war on drugs has worked so well and cost us so little, securing the border would probably work just as well. Or not.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Can you imagine the American response if some other country were to start putting the heads of American "border-jumpers" on pikes on their borders? Some country like, say, IRAN, for instance?

Somehow, though, the idea of US doing it gets lots of support from the right.

Imagine my surprise that Kirk and Rappy are in favor of killing more brown people. How very *expected* of them, really.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:49 PM

KIRKULES


I don't know if you've noticed but my avatar is a dude with a bloody sword. I am a caricature of a conservative designed to help keep liberals in the state of perpetual outrage they enjoy so much. Maybe if I had suggested we fire dead fetuses over the border to warn potential border crossers they would get on board. Most Mexicans are socially conservative and make great US citizens but we only need those that understand we are a country of laws and respect for our sovereignty is part of that. I would trade one Occupy WS hippie for one Mexican any day of the week. Maybe they could set up their socialist utopia in Mexico, they could call it Cuba 2.0. Without Soviet aid to keep them propped up we'd be able to see them fail in real time. If we could swap one Mexican for every whinny Lib in the US we'd have this economy firing on all cylinders in no time.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:06 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Farm animals can't read, either. But they see one of their own get zapped, they can figure it out, I'm guessing.



...and you would be guessing wrong.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:14 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I don't know if you've noticed but my avatar is a dude with a bloody sword. I am a caricature of a conservative designed to help keep liberals in the state of perpetual outrage they enjoy so much.



...or your Avatar is of a gay actor.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:04 PM

BYTEMITE


Hey, Sean's badass, gay or not.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:07 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




No need for an electric fence, just a few school girls...








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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:13 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I don't know if you've noticed but my avatar is a dude with a bloody sword. I am a caricature of a conservative designed to help keep liberals in the state of perpetual outrage they enjoy so much.



...or your Avatar is of a gay actor.




I'm just glad Alan is still in the closet. Er, you know what I mean.

Because I really like pirates. But not in a gay way.



"As Africans, we want to ask Barack Obama to explain to us, is this what he wants to bring to Africa, the human right to eat da poo poo?"
-Dr Martin Ssempa, both his brother and sister died from AIDS
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=49790

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:24 AM

BYTEMITE


Honestly, PN, trying to save people from shortening their lifespan by accidentally consuming fecal matter during intercourse is pretty similar to trying to save people from shortening their lifespan due to smoking cigarette crap, drinking alcohol crap, or eating fast food crap.

People are gonna do so, and stopping them from doing so would require the kind of powerful controlling entity you'd probably be opposed to.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:29 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
...or your Avatar is of a gay actor.



I never have used the new site so I was unaware of my new avatar. I do like it though. I may not be attracted to those of the opposite sex but you'd have to be blind not to notice Sean Maher is an attractive man. While not as hansom as Sean I do have a keen fashion and interior decorating sense that might make me fit in well with the Gays. Now i understand why some were taking me more seriously than usual and why Kwicko was more the usually attracted to me. I think I'll keep my new avatar for now but if I start getting virtual hugs from Liberals its got to go.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 2:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


How is gayness relevent to this conversation whatsoever? Its not.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:08 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:



If a lot of people want to go somewhere over a miles-and-MILES-long stretch of land, barriers aren't going to stop them.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





Cain's example, the Great Wall of China, DID work, against ARMIES, at least. But for several reasons. It is tall, but it's also THICK. It's low tech, cheap, and made of ROCKS. So it's heavy, and tunneling under it would have been risky, because of the danger of cave-ins. It also had guards garrisoned on it, and rapid communication by signal fires. A steel barrier 20 feet high and only 12 inches thick, unsupervised and abandoned in the wilderness, ain't gonna do it.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:38 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
How is gayness relevent to this conversation whatsoever? Its not.



I mentioned it because Kirkules brought up social conservatives, was just trying to tweak him a little.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:02 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.”



Ah. Selective editing again, Niki?

You left out part of Mr. Cain's quote, since it kind'a indicates he WAS joking.


“We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top."

You left out the next bit.

"And on this side of it, it would have a moat the depth of a football field. And yes, Mr. President, it would have alligators in it.”

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, October 21, 2011 7:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I wonder what Herman Cain's reaction would be if the white folks in his town put up a lethal electric fence around the country club. Or the whites-only lunch counter. Would he have gotten the message?


Or suggested Slave Owners should have used steam boilers to electrify theirs, and then when he threw a hissy (or, being yanno, practially a shill for the Ku Klux Gop, tried to pretend to not be black), someone could rag on him for not having a sense of humor...

But then again, maybe he does have a fine sense of humor and actually appreciates the dramatic irony of working directly for a political party who'd like to strip women and minorities of their rights and get back to the "good old days" and "conservative values" of when only rich white men had rights at all.

Or maybe he's just fucking stupid.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, October 21, 2011 10:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.”



Ah. Selective editing again, Niki?

You left out part of Mr. Cain's quote, since it kind'a indicates he WAS joking.


“We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top."

You left out the next bit.

"And on this side of it, it would have a moat the depth of a football field. And yes, Mr. President, it would have alligators in it.”

"Keep the Shiny side up"




What makes you think he was joking?

He's also flat-out said he wants an electrified fence with signs on it saying "This fence will kill you."

Odd sense of humor y'all have.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, October 21, 2011 10:33 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.”



Ah. Selective editing again, Niki?

You left out part of Mr. Cain's quote, since it kind'a indicates he WAS joking.


“We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top."

You left out the next bit.

"And on this side of it, it would have a moat the depth of a football field. And yes, Mr. President, it would have alligators in it.”

"Keep the Shiny side up"




What makes you think he was joking?

He's also flat-out said he wants an electrified fence with signs on it saying "This fence will kill you."

Odd sense of humor y'all have.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



If he is not kidding I might vote for him, a moat with alligators would be cool as fuck!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 21, 2011 1:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
If he is not kidding I might vote for him, a moat with alligators would be cool as fuck!




OM NOM NOM!

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Friday, October 21, 2011 1:20 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
hat makes you think he was joking?



The punch-line, which Niki left out.

When he addressed the caller on his talk show, who was complaining about the impracticality of the fence as "Mr. President".

Here's the video.




Quote:

He's also flat-out said he wants an electrified fence with signs on it saying "This fence will kill you."


I've yet to find a video of that, or a text of his entire remarks, but I'd bet it's about the same as the video above.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, October 21, 2011 5:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

(AP/The Huffington Post) — Herman Cain has risen fast. Now the question is: Will he fall?

As Republican presidential hopefuls were preparing for a debate here Tuesday night, Cain has been facing more and more intense scrutiny as his poll numbers have jumped upward.

Now that he's in the national spotlight, he's already had to apologize for comments he made over the weekend calling for an electric fence on the Southern border with Mexico.

At a campaign stop Monday in Arizona, Cain appeared with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, an aggressive anti-immigration proponent. "It was a joke," Cain said emphatically during a news conference. "I apologize if I offended anyone. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa."

However, the Phoenix New Times, reports:

Only, it might not be a joke, he later said, before finally saying he just doesn't want to offend anyone.
"I don't like to offend anyone...however, I don't apologize for using a combination of a fence. And it might be electrified -- I'm not walking away from that," Cain backtracked. "I just don't want to offend anybody. It was a joke to the extent in the context of the views of that speech, but in terms of what we need to do, I fully intend to do so because I'm more sensitive to our citizens being hurt."

Cain told an audience in Tennessee on Saturday that the fence is "going to be electrified. And there is going to be a sign on the other side that says, `It will kill you.'"


Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, took issue with the presidential contender's remarks. "Words have consequences, both in shaping ideas and inspiring actions. Whether or not he made his comments in jest, Mr. Cain's words show a lack of understanding of the immigration issues our country is facing and a staggering lack of sensitivity," he said.

Immigration already has flared on the campaign trail -- and contributed to the sinking of another fast-rising GOP candidate. Texas Gov. Rick Perry has struggled to explain why he signed a law giving in-state tuition breaks to undocumented immigrants at Texas universities. When he first entered the race, he was at or near the top of many national polls. He's fallen back since, and Cain has emerged as the more popular alternative to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Cain raised eyebrows over the summer with remarks he made on the issue of border security during a stop in Iowa. ThinkProgress relays what the presidential hopeful had to say:

I just got back from China. Ever heard of the Great Wall of China? It looks pretty sturdy. And that sucker is real high. I think we can build one if we want to! We have put a man on the moon, we can build a fence! Now, my fence might be part Great Wall and part electrical technology...It will be a twenty foot wall, barbed wire, electrified on the top, and on this side of the fence, I'll have that moat that President Obama talked about. And I would put those alligators in that moat!

Shortly after, Cain was asked about his comments in an interview with New York Times Magazine.

You said of the Great Wall of China, "I think we could build one" as a solution to our immigration problems. Are you concerned that as many as three million Chinese died building it?
[Cain:] My point was, if they could build that wall centuries ago without bulldozers, we can secure the border today. It could be a combination of walls and high-tech equipment. Now, if accidents happen, that's one thing. But I think we can improve upon that ratio of three million people dying.




So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement".

Right. Got it.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, October 21, 2011 6:56 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement".

Exactly.

I blame the Indians for not having done this:

http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/1indainwall1.JPG

They're probably kicking themselves too.



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Saturday, October 22, 2011 2:59 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
(AP/The Huffington Post)...However, the Phoenix New Times, reports:
...Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus,... ThinkProgress relays...



So much for complete videos or speech transcripts. These folks do the same thing you do. Take bits out of context and build a whole false story around them.

Quote:

So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement".

Right. Got it.



I bet when you watched that video, you chuckled.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


From that version of the video, it seems obvious to me he WAS joking. I'm not sure he was at other times. For politicians, it kind of depends on the audience what you joke about and what you say seriously. It works both ways. But I certainly don't deny that in the video provided, he was joking, they were laughing.

Now, about that 9-9-9 "joke"...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
(AP/The Huffington Post)...However, the Phoenix New Times, reports:
...Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus,... ThinkProgress relays...



So much for complete videos or speech transcripts. These folks do the same thing you do. Take bits out of context and build a whole false story around them.



Which is the same thing you've always done. Congratulations.

Quote:


Quote:

So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement".

Right. Got it.



I bet when you watched that video, you chuckled.



You lose.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 2:26 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


You lose.



Liar

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


You lose.



Liar

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Troll

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Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


In all technicality, Cane is "more black" than Obama is. Obama is only half African and he's half European, just as much as he is African. That has always baffled me about people who are of varied ancestry. Society wants them to pick one and stick with it, and the one they usually want them to pick is the one that is physically more obvious. Kind of simplistic and unrealistic in my opinion. If someone chooses one for themselves that's a little different, but I don't like it when society assumes things about people. I think self identification is good, at least when it makes sense. If I called myself black I'd probably get laughed at and called delusional since I'm clearly not. But then again one never knows with genetics and how certain traits are expressed. For all you know I'm 1/4 or something. More unsuspected things have happened in this world.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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