REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama to Announce Complete Withdrawal from Iraq

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, October 23, 2011 18:21
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Friday, October 21, 2011 7:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

President Barack Obama on Friday declared an end to the Iraq war, one of the longest and most divisive conflicts in U.S. history, announcing that all U.S. troops would be withdrawn from the country by year's end.

Obama's statement put an end to months of wrangling over whether the U.S. would maintain a force in Iraq beyond 2011.

"After nearly nine years," the president, "America's war in Iraq will be over."

He spoke at the White House after a private video conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and he offered assurances that the two leaders agreed on the decision.

The American withdrawal by the end of 2011 was sealed in a deal between the two countries when George W. Bush was president. Obama declared the end of the combat mission earlier this year. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097533,00.html president also noted he is planning to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan, a process hoped to be completed by 2014. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/10/obama-to-
speak-on-iraq-at-1245-pm/1

We'll see if that comes to fruition, but hey, it's a start!

Let's see how long it takes Raptor to twist that into some kind of negative for Obama. Three...two...one...

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Friday, October 21, 2011 7:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

No need for Mr. Raptor.

The negative for Obama is that this should have been done ages ago. Also: We were trying to get permission for the troops to stay longer under the auspices of 'training programs.' The troops will be leaving only because we have essentially been kicked out.

Thank God for THAT though.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, October 21, 2011 7:58 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Overseers to Obama: "Your polls are in the dumps. We can't have you being a one-term President.. it ruins all our plans... bring the troops home from Iraq.. we can spin that."

Obama: "Sho nuff!"


P.S. Ron Pauls pimp hand is getting itchy.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, October 21, 2011 9:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course we should have been out long ago--we shouldn't have BEEN there in the first place. But:
Quote:

U.S. and Iraqi officials have spent months debating whether to honor a planned December 31 deadline for troop withdrawal, set in 2008, amid concerns that the full withdrawal of U.S. forces could put the country at risk. Many U.S. officials wanted to leave a few thousand military trainers in the country past the end of the year, but, as the Associated Press reported Sunday, "Iraqi leaders have adamantly refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans have refused to stay without it."
I assume you're saying that the Iraqis had none of those concerns about us leaving...?
Quote:

Iraq's leadership has been split on whether it wanted American forces to stay. Some argued the further training and U.S. help was vital, particularly to protect Iraq's airspace and gather security intelligence.
.....
The U.S. said repeatedly this year it would entertain an offer from the Iraqis to have a small force stay behind, and the Iraqis said they would like American military help. But as the year wore on and the number of American troops that Washington was suggesting could stay behind dropped, it became increasingly clear that a U.S. troop presence was not a sure thing.

The issue of legal protection for the Americans was the deal-breaker.

Iraqis are still angry over incidents such as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal or Haditha, when U.S. troops killed Iraqi civilians in Anbar province, and want American troops subject to Iraqi law.

American commanders don't want to risk having their forces end up in an Iraqi courtroom if they're forced to defend themselves in a still-hostile environment. http://www.theolympian.com/2011/10/21/1847009/obama-announces-total-ir
aq-troop.html
applaud the Iraqis for standing fast on the matter of immunity, that makes sense. But I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dried as you and Wulf think. If it weren't for the immunity issue, as it says some of them would like troops to stay. It's easy to see things in black and white, but in my opinion the world is made up of many shades of grey.

I don't see it as much a matter of being "kicked out" as of them very rightly not being willing to have things like Abu Ghraib happen again, or at least to be able to prosecute those involved if they did. WE should have been responsible for that, but obviously we weren't. Barring that, I think there are many who would like the help we could give them to remain.

I'm NOT in favor of any troops remaining, let me be clear. But I've also long believed that once we DO leave, things will worsen. Our government screwed up, big time, and now the Iraqis will be left to face the vacuum that will be left behind.

Wulf, you're an idiot. The terms of our leaving were set back before Obama even came into office.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, October 21, 2011 9:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Wulf, you're an idiot. The terms of our leaving were set back before Obama even came into office."

So.... Bush set an end to the war he "illegally" started?

Sho NUFF!!

Keep on keeping on!

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, October 21, 2011 9:57 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Any time US troops can get out of harm's way and come home, well that's a great thing!








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Friday, October 21, 2011 10:06 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Wulf, you're an idiot. The terms of our leaving were set back before Obama even came into office."

So.... Bush set an end to the war he "illegally" started?



No moron. Obama set an end to the war that Bush illegally started.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 21, 2011 10:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


JS: Amen.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, October 21, 2011 12:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

No need for Mr. Raptor.

The negative for Obama is that this should have been done ages ago. Also: We were trying to get permission for the troops to stay longer under the auspices of 'training programs.' The troops will be leaving only because we have essentially been kicked out.

Thank God for THAT though.

--Anthony




And yet, here I am.

They're leaving because who is 'kicking them out' ? The Iraqis ? Some yes, others, maybe not.

They should have been home under Bush's 2nd term, at the latest.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 21, 2011 5:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


They should have never been there in the first place.

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Friday, October 21, 2011 6:44 PM

OPPYH


First off, I always said Hillary would have been a much better choice for president......I get blasted, and harassed about those thoughts(this after all is the RWED). After Obama gets elected and is president I think he does an ok job, after all I knew he was wishy washy from the get-go and didn't expect a whole helluva lot. I figured as much. At least he isn't Bush. While I'm thinking this all the pro-Obama supporters in the RWED who were clearly wrong in what they thought he was going to be as president are then against him. Not living up to his "promise".
Now you are all 'YAY OBAMA'.
Either you like him, or you don't.
So which is it?????


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Friday, October 21, 2011 7:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Either you like him, or you don't.
So which is it?????



Is it purely a binary choice? Must one's opinion of him hinge on one action?

I dislike a lot of the things he's done and/or hasn't done. This one I like, although it's been a long time coming.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 3:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oppyh, don't count me in that snark; I've been real clear since the beginning that I didn't vote for him in the primary and had serious questions about him from the start. I thought he might be too much of a neophite to presidential politics and too easily led by his "advisors", and he's been exactly what I feared. I didn't vote for Hillary, either, and I know she gets a bad rap here, but I think she might well have been a better Prez in the end, too.

Nonetheless, I don't see the world in black and white; he's accomplished somethings, he's neglected to accomplish others, and he's done some things I abhor. I guesss 30% should have been about what I expected in the first place. Here in RWED,I try to give him credit for the good things he's done and bitch about the shit he screws up. Why can't we appreciate him for what he does right and excoriate him for what he does wrong...isn't that what Presidents are for?

But who exactly is saying 'Yay Obama', please? I for one was noting that (as far as we can tell) he's holding to the promise to get out of Iraq, that's all. I disagree that they all want us out or that we've been "kicked out", and that's pretty much all I've had to say on the subject.

For one thing, I think Obama gets very little credit for Gadhafi's death/overthrow. The people who did the dirty work and died deserve the credit. Yeah, we helped, as did the French and others, but they were the ones fighting and dying, not our guys. I know the righties adore to lay everything that happens at his feet, to the point of working HARD to find a negative in even the positives, so I'm getting a giggle watching the current slate of candidates squirm and wiggle to avoid giving him ANY credit. And I'm glad our guys are coming home. That's about it for me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


When you change the name of a unit from Combat Troops to Combat Support Troops, that's the same thing as removing them from Iraq.......or removing the WORD from Iraq.

Besides, most of the troops are needed for the invasion of Iran next month.

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
When you change the name of a unit from Combat Troops to Combat Support Troops, that's the same thing as removing them from Iraq.......or removing the WORD from Iraq.

Besides, most of the troops are needed for the invasion of Iran next month.



Next month ? I figured Barry would hold on on that until at least the middle of next summer. Would make a helluva acceptance speech, at the DNC rally, no ?


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Saturday, October 22, 2011 7:51 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Nonetheless, I don't see the world in black and white; he's accomplished somethings, he's neglected to accomplish others, and he's done some things I abhor. I guesss 30% should have been about what I expected in the first place. Here in RWED,I try to give him credit for the good things he's done and bitch about the shit he screws up. Why can't we appreciate him for what he does right and excoriate him for what he does wrong...isn't that what Presidents are for?



I don't see the world in black and white either, but I do see strategically timed major actions from our president. And if he is re-elected, in 2014 he will have the rest of the troops out of harms way. It's like dangling a carrot in front of us. 'See what you will get if I'm president for a second term'?

I'm sorry Niki, but this is outrageous. His number one priority as president should have been to pull all military from the middle east ASAP. He didn't. How much blood should be spilled while he decides an opportune time to make himself look better?

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:51 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
I'm sorry Niki, but this is outrageous. His number one priority as president should have been to pull all military from the middle east ASAP. He didn't. How much blood should be spilled while he decides an opportune time to make himself look better?

Okay, how exactly do you get from "his number one priority should have been to pull all military from the ME" to he decided to wait until he needed a bump in the polls? Honestly, do you think a sane human being is going to let tens of thousands die just because he intends to improve his poll numbers at some later date? Or are you one of these sorry misanthropes who claim that all politicians are psychopaths?

Seems to me, Obama could have used a bump in the polls pretty much after the first year. Definitely during the midterm elections. Why didn't he bring the troops home then, if all he was waiting for was "an opportune time?" Would have put a definite dent in the whole TP madness.

It disgusts me, the amount of control some folk ascribe to one man, or a body of men. And then they go on to demonize this man or men, ascribing to them every evil. What's the point of that, except to create a world where you and yours are utterly powerless and bitching about it becomes the highest form of art? You gunning for PN's job? The plain truth of the matter is that this world is vastly more chaotic than these childish conspiracy theories would allow.

Life would be so much more simple if SOMEBODY were in charge, right? Might never get what you wanted, but you'd at least have someone to blame! Sorry to break it to ya, folks: no one's in charge. No one. No one's gonna come round and fix it for ya, and no one's to blame. One way or the other, we're gonna have to take care of it ourselves.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:57 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Honestly, do you think a sane human being is going to let tens of thousands die just because he intends to improve his poll numbers at some later date? Or are you one of these sorry misanthropes who claim that all politicians are psychopaths?


>_>

Mark me down for yes to both because it's happened in the past.

As for Obama, I think it's his administration more than the man himself. But I think pretty poorly of the whole white house bunch unofficially expanding the Afghanistan war into Pakistan the sixth day they were in office, so you know. I've been mad at them ever since because I felt like they'd misrepresented themselves. And maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, since apparently he told Katie Couric the plan, but good luck having heard bout it before the election.

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:14 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ooops...I was going to say the same thing you did, Cav, and it's just as ridiculous to me to think Obama could just wave his hand and bring everyone home whenever he wanted to. There are a FEW more people in charge of the military than just Obama, and what he WANTS to do isn't necessary what he CAN do...or when he can do it. Luckily the 2008 agreement gives him backing for pulling out of Iraq, DESPITE MANY THINKING WE SHOULD STAY:
Quote:

Despite their inability to agree on the economy or much else, Republican presidential candidates spoke with one voice in reaction to President Obama’s announcement of a full U.S. withdrawal from Iraq this year.

They were against it.

It was an “astonishing failure” that risked all the gains made “through the blood and sacrifice” of thousands of Americans, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said he was “deeply concerned” that Obama had put “political expediency ahead of sound military and security judgment.” Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) cited it as another example of the president’s foreign policy weakness, and Jon Huntsman, Obama’s former ambassador to China, called it a “mistake.”

Herman Cain let stand his assessment of last weekend, in which he announced that withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan were “a dumb thing to do.”

They didn’t necessarily all agree on why they were outraged by the news, only that bringing U.S. troops from Iraq is just awful.

Let’s remember exactly what these candidates were saying yesterday: they want at least some U.S. troops to stay in Iraq indefinitely. This disastrous, costly war began nearly nine years ago, but nearly all of the Republican presidential candidates still aren’t in any rush to end the U.S. mission.

As the nation’s attention has largely shifted to domestic concerns, there’s been far less polling on the public’s attitudes on U.S. policy in Iraq. The most recent data, however, shows that most Americans simply do not support the war.

The American mainstream will very likely consider yesterday’s announcement a terrific development. That the Republican presidential field doesn’t care is rather amazing. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_10/gop_candidat
es_decry_iraq_with032982.php
if you want to excoriate anyone for not wanting to get out, try the right, not the left, and if you think a President can just say "okay, let's get out" on a whim, to improve his numbers, or for any OTHER reason with no backing, well, what can I say?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:36 PM

BYTEMITE


Evacuation of Sai-Gon. Sudden, abrupt, ordered by the Commander in Chief.

Not very pretty, but, you know what, I'm not sure drawing it out an extra three years in Iraq reduced that death toll any.

I don't give a damn about left or right. I'm pissed we were over there, I'm pissed we've stayed as long as we have, I'm only glad that we're coming back, and even what tiny amounts of happy feelings I do have are rapidly starting to evaporate because of the back and forth.

The commander in chief and the secretary of state can't control the military, then something is wrong with all three elements: commander in chief, his secretary of state, and the military.

Period.

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Saturday, October 22, 2011 7:33 PM

OPPYH


"I will promise you this: that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank."

Barack Obama
On the presidential campaign trail, Oct. 27, 2007
====================================================
So he thinks bringing our troops home could be done in less than a year, but it took him 3 years to make it a reality, and possibly another 3 for the rest of the troops to exit? What exactly is the holdup?

And to make you sleep better Gerald Ford pulled all troops out of Vietnam in a span of four short months. So yeah, whatever. I'm paranoid.


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Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:40 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:


The commander in chief and the secretary of state can't control the military, then something is wrong with all three elements: commander in chief, his secretary of state, and the military.

Period.



Apparently, you, and I are the only people that see something is wrong with the picture. Obama can't just wave his hand, and make things happen. He can however deploy troops at the drop of a hat(Feb. 2009). It's just that getting troops back on U.S. soil is a liiitle more tricky, and takes roughly 3 years. Unbelievable!



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Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:53 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Honestly, do you think a sane human being is going to let tens of thousands die just because he intends to improve his poll numbers at some later date?


Yes. After all, he is the one that deployed more troops to Afghanistan in the first few months of being president. He is bringing the troops out if Iraq now. Great. Now, let's make sure he gets re-elected so all American troops can make it home in time for Christmas.....2014!!


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Sunday, October 23, 2011 5:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I give up. If it's that impossible to feel good about the troops coming home and the responses have to be this, then why bother? They ARE coming home, it's set now; for myself, I'm tickled pink and that's all I need to be.

And no, I don't think these days that Presidents can just wave a wand and make miracles happen. If that were true, we'd have been in Iraq a few days after 9/11, Bush wanted to get in there so bad.

But it's all irrelevant; I'm glad it's happening. I'll take any good news in these miserable times, and this is really good news. Period.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:25 AM

BYTEMITE


In fairness to you, Niki, the Troop surge OPPYH mentions was to Afghanistan rather than Iraq. But I don't really like our occupation of either country.

I'm angry with the political machine that scared the American public into supporting such a measure. But I'm also angry with the President for bowing under that pressure for his approval ratings, especially since, yes, people have died on both sides of the Afghanistan conflict because of it.

We are leaving Iraq, and yes, that's to his credit. I'm glad it's finally happening, and I think it took long enough.

Looking at things Obama has accomplished, he could otherwise be hailed as a great president. But there's been a few too many times I feel he has caved under pressure and done the wrong thing, and in this case I feel like it has taken him three years to do the right thing.

The Bush administration was like them gleefully grabbing America and jumping off a cliff. With the Obama administration, what's been frustrating is that it seems like there's been an actual struggle and attempt to not fall of the cliff, but then we get a one-step-forward-two-steps-back kind of dance and end up going over ANYWAY. And I'm not talking about liberal or progressive policies or the Republican resistance, I'm talking about the ridiculous and horrible compromises that have been made with the health/insurance industry, the military (wars in the middle east), the intelligence community (Gitmo, PATRIOT act), Wall Street, and over the gulf oil spill.

I'm just frustrated. I don't mean to take that out on you.

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Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:14 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"if you think a President can just say "okay, let's get out" on a whim, to improve his numbers, or for any OTHER reason with no backing, well, what can I say?"

Hello,

The President of the United States has complete authority over troop movements. Including movements back to the US. Congress can fund a war, and they can declare a war, but only the President can order one to be fought.

It literally can be done on a whim, but this president has shown no desire to go against the grain, even to fulfill his campaign promises.

I grant no kudos here.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:13 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm just frustrated.



I'm both saddened and pissed by these "wars." They will never be removed from our history. Ever. Up until now that history has had some moments that I have been on balance pretty proud of. Lots of stumbles, but considering the amount of humanity and all the many voices that want to be heard, pretty decent.
20-50 years from now though, will Afghanistan and Iraq be seen as the be our biggest failure ever? The 18 Year wars, that gained us exactly...? Future generations must think we were insane.
They certainly will think we were idiots to run around wondering why we're in a recession while we were funding 2 wars at a 2 Billion dollars a week.

http://costofwar.com/en/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Financial_cost

The financial cost of the war has been more than $9 billion) to the UK, and over $845 billion to the U.S., with the total cost to the U.S. economy estimated at $3 trillion.

"New budget estimates predict the government’s deficit will reach almost $1.5 trillion in 2011 - a new record."



Islamic Fundamentalists must be loving this. They have virtually no traditional weapons, just some rusty AKs and rocket launchers and donkeys and they have crippled us.


Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:26 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
It literally can be done on a whim, but this president has shown no desire to go against the grain, even to fulfill his campaign promises.



That is the point I have been trying to make all along. He could have pulled the troops out along time ago. Just recently he decides to do so. How many American soldiers would have been saved in the meantime? If HE made this order a few years ago, It would have been fantastic. He would have gained every bit of respect I could ever have for any commander in chief. Doing it now shows selfish motives at worst, and blind aloofness at best.


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Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm sticking with what Jongstraw said.

In hindsight I believe that we shouldn't have had a war with Iraq, a quicky assassination and a little else on that note should have been sufficient, done clandestinely of course so no one could prove for sure it was us. But at the time, given the information presented I understand why it happened. Unfortunately the folk in charge at the time didn't know the info was incorrect and incomplete and didn't know how problematic it would prove to be for us in future. Hindsight is 20 20. But I'm glad it can be over now.

As for American history, we've always had horrible things happen, we've also had good things happen. Now adays is no exception. I personally think slavery and genocide are worse than warring in the middle east and those are part of our history from way back, they are not recent.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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