REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Seriously, we're nearing the end/beginning...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, October 31, 2011 14:01
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2476
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Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:59 AM

CHRISISALL


@ Climate 'see-no-evil's', it's happening. Cyclical, man-made, man-influenced, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference now.
Population? We're way past our carrying point.
Resources? Drill, baby, drill. Will it alleviate things? Not so much. But go ahead.
World economy? Do more with less, my peeps. Unless you're rich. Then you can feel free to do less with more.

Get ready for the food riots of the mid-21st.

UNLESS peeps like AU wake up (good luck with that).
UNLESS peeps in control realize that being fantastically RICH in a totally unstable world society just ain't worth bein' the one with the most toys (that they'd likely get killed in out there anyways).

Quote:

James T. Kirk: If we don't help each other, we'll die here.
Kruge: Perfect. Then that's the way it shall be.







The not-so-laughing Chrisisall



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:02 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

it doesn't make a damn bit of difference now.
Population? We're way past our carrying point.



I agree with the rest, not sure I can agree with those.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:07 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Chris, you ok?

This is an especially gloomy post for you. Dare I say it doesnt' sound like you?



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:16 PM

CHRISISALL


Just not likin' the signs I'm seein'.
Y'all notice the food prices increasin'?
Police shoot an IRAQ VET in the head with a 'projectile' for protesting peaceably?
Peeps in Pacific island nations considering seeking RELOCATION due to erosion & flooding never seen before in their collective memory?
And with all this, record profits to the '1%'?



The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Ya see Chrissy, folks like me woke up like 20 years ago, when the fears of the hysterical were soundly mocked and ignored, into the background noise of nonsensical chatter, where it belongs.

Food riots ? Then put an end to the lunacy of ' corn for fuel' for cars. STOOPID ! How about some nice sugar cane, instead ? Yeah, that works better.

There's always gonna be " the 1% ". No matter what system you're in. Get over it. At least here, you're free to achieve what ever you want, and not be bound to a socio-economic class, the same as your parents, and their parents, and their parents....

Yeah, freedom pretty much kicks ass.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:24 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

it doesn't make a damn bit of difference now.
Population? We're way past our carrying point.



I agree with the rest, not sure I can agree with those.

We STOP greenhouse gasses RIGHT NOW & guess what? The ball is rolling Byte. It may slow a bit, but it'll still hit the pins.
And by estimates on long-term planetary Human feeding capacity by peeps much smarter than you or I, 3 billion is the ideal max #.

With the CURRENT world agricultural droughts/freezes, industrial food production is just beginning to show the lag.

"We were so many..."


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:31 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Ya see Chrissy, folks like me woke up like 20 years ago, when the fears of the hysterical were soundly mocked and ignored

AU, as nice a guy as I'm really sure you are IRL, on this issue(s) on this site you're just a fucking idiot. 'Comfortably numb' I believe is the scientific term.

Luckily for you, you're really old, and won't have to do the serious fighting.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Hey Chrissy, would you prefer we lived on a ice ball ?




Try growing a world supply of crops under a mile or 2 of solid ice!


C'mon... snap out of it !




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Try growing a world supply of crops under a mile or 2 of solid ice!


We're gonna TRY growing it in dust bowls & swamps.
UNLESS we accept what the situation is and plan ahead.
Which current trends make seem... unlikely.
When you plant your little ostrich head so FIRMLY up the but of any one political party, how can it be otherwise?

Oh, and Hero, I note for the record that Obama is a FAIL.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:41 PM

JONGSSTRAW






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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:49 PM

CHRISISALL


Very funny. Yeah, this thread needed a laff.
I'm just so disgusted with the Dems & Reps who aren't intelligent nor courageous enough to see the truth of things, and the rest who KNOW, but still seek to serve the status quo (which will be very HARD to do when the dyin' starts).



The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:50 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Just not likin' the signs I'm seein'.

I hear ya. A lot of people's spidey sense has been going off.

Something bad is coming down the pike, for sure.

Not sure what can be done about it.



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:55 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

The ball is rolling Byte. It may slow a bit, but it'll still hit the pins.


Yeah, to between 600 to 1000 ppm CO2 and the methane released from the permafrost.

But we've seen levels like that before. It's a problem, to be sure, and there'll be some animal die off and mass migration due to animals having some difficulty adapting to the change in atmo and temp. But people talk like it's the end of the world or the human race or something.

Exaggerating the science just turns people off, or makes them skeptical.

Quote:

Human feeding capacity by peeps much smarter than you or I, 3 billion is the ideal max #.


Hey.

You want to say someone's smarter than me, ante up the scientific data and studies that give that number and I'll tell you if they are or not.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:56 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
A lot of people's spidey sense has been going off.


Here in Western Mass the state police have erected concrete pillars in front of their HQ. The kind that could easily stop a car coming in at 70mph. Is THAT what they're expecting? THAT kind of anger & civil unrest???

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



For Chris...




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:00 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
But people talk like it's the end of the world or the human race or something.


I'm not posing that in any way my own self. But the Plague or the American Civil War weren't exactly FUN, now were they.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:03 PM

BYTEMITE


Ah.

Then I am mollified that your concerns are realistic. Just watch out for that 3 billion number. Lots of people bandy it around, but I've never seen much actual calculation or modeling to support it. The actual carrying capacity of the Earth is widely contested, and there's even still plenty of question left about just what happened to Easter Island and what the actual carrying capacity was there as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

For Chris...




I love that song. Ever since Independence Day. Thanks.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Independence Day...wha...mehh...

Hell, I was diggin that song when it came out, LONG before ID.




REM is one of the few GOOD things to come out of Athens, GA. Them and The B-52's. ( Kate Pierson....yes,please! )

But I digress.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:11 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Ah.

Then I am mollified that your concerns are realistic. Just watch out for that 3 billion number. Lots of people bandy it around, but I've never seen much actual calculation or modeling to support it.

Carrying capacity estimation is affected by present location of populace and likely or possible migratory factors combined with food production capability due to soil density/loss and cyclical climate change by millennia. Plus or minus 2 billion.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:11 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Here in Western Mass the state police have erected concrete pillars in front of their HQ. The kind that could easily stop a car coming in at 70mph.



Those are to stop "the terrorists", aren't they?

Everybody knows that a state police headquarters in Western Mass is a higher priority terrorist target than NYC, the Statue of liberty, Washington DC, the US Capitol and the Pentagon combined. Or so thinks the staff of the Western Mass state P D.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:28 PM

BYTEMITE


Depends on the model, Chris. I've seen estimates from the low ball 3 billion all the way up to a trillion. According to a study that took a historical survey of rebound capacity of agriculture to human demand, we're only 20% over capacity at the moment, not 66%, and that's not taking in consideration bad agriculture practices the world over, technology improvements, land use, and so on.

And we don't really have a whole lot of models that have been around long enough to determine which are predictive. So they're not actually much use right now.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
So they're not actually much use right now.

Ummm, so, it's really a best-guess thing?

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Or so thinks the staff of the Western Mass state P D.

You know them!

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here in Western Mass the state police have erected concrete pillars in front of their HQ. The kind that could easily stop a car coming in at 70mph. Is THAT what they're expecting? THAT kind of anger & civil unrest???


Yes.

The powers that be have been tenatively plotting for this since the 50's-60's, Hoover, McCarthy, Angleton, Nixon and his cronies...

And formulating offical plans since the early-mid 80's, Rex-84, Garden Plot, Conplan 3502...

It's no longer a conspiracy THEORY when it's official and fully documented official POLICY.

The only surprise in regards to someone possibly car-bombing a police station or bank that screwed em is that it hasn't happened YET, although there was that kamikazee on the IRS, and we've had a local lawyer carbombed, after a fashion.
http://www.freep.com/article/20110922/NEWS05/109220563/In-Monroe-shock
ing-car-bombing-an-unclear-motive


Of course the papers and press agents try to paint the guy as some kinda squeaky clean innocent, and he ain't, far, FAR fuckin from it...
Which is why they have no idea, all the shit that guy has done leaves too damn many suspects to investigate in a decade.

But yeah, sooner or later, Chris, sooner or later.
My own preparations for this have long since been laid, it's other people I worry about, and how difficult it's gonna be to assist communities in denial when the ball goes up and they find out that the "forces of law and order" are in truth the bad guys - cause past a certain point, ignorance is no excuse for wearing jackboots, and IMHO *that* point was some time ago, thus I have a less than kind view of anyone in service to "them", and no merciful intentions whatever.

EDIT: Angleton in particular was a real piece of work, and if you ever wanted someone to blame, really blame - for the CIAs mission drift from intel gathering to fuckin with their so-called protectees, it's his feet you can lay it at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jesus_Angleton

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 10:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hi Chris, good to see you. Another good voice we need to hear more from. Yes, I'm as gloomy as you about stuff, I suppose I just try to ignore it as much as I can, and take action where I can.

Uhhh, you've been responding to Raptor...you might want to see to that.
And you've been discussing climate change with Byte...ditto.
And you've posted ABOUT climate change, here, where it's been beaten to death...ditto.

World population just hit 7 billion this month? Welcome to...well, you know what.



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Friday, October 28, 2011 10:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Uhhh, you've been responding to Raptor...you might want to see to that.



LOL! Yeah, like you've seen to it ?

Crassic!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 28, 2011 10:58 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor: At least here, you're free to achieve what ever you want, and not be bound to a socio-economic class, the same as your parents, and their parents, and their parents....


More like anywhere but here (the US)

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/chart-of-the-day-paul-ryan-
wrong-about-upwardly-mobile-america.php?ref=fpa




The American Dream is alive and well...in Denmark!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 11:13 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Hey, Nick, glad to see the Scandi-Whoovians out in front. It's no surprise to ME to see those socialist/liberal/pinko Commie leftists on the top of the list, except for the Canadians who have their own issues with socialism, and that crappy medical system they've got.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 11:17 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Hey, Nick, glad to see the Scandi-Whoovians out in front. It's no surprise to ME to see those socialist/liberal/pinko Commie leftists on the top of the list, except for the Canadians who have their own issues with socialism, and that crappy medical system they've got.



I somehow think the beer, strip clubs and hockey make up for those.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 11:32 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
@ Climate 'see-no-evil's', it's happening. Cyclical, man-made, man-influenced, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference now.
Population? We're way past our carrying point.
Resources? Drill, baby, drill. Will it alleviate things? Not so much. But go ahead.
World economy? Do more with less, my peeps. Unless you're rich. Then you can feel free to do less with more.

Get ready for the food riots of the mid-21st.





Chin up Chris, 75% of America is either overweight or obese, so we're built for this. You got food riots? Bring it! USA! USA! USA!
Also - see that timeline going all the way back to when there were dragons on the Earth? Close your eyes and pick out a point on the line any where between then and now, any point. Bet it'll have just as much darkness and chuckle headedness as you're seeing today. BUT, a lot of them won't have a 24 hour church of Elvis. http://24hourchurchofelvis.com/ This is the time to be alive dude.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, October 28, 2011 12:39 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
This is the time to be alive dude.


LOL, you sound like Bill &/or Ted!!!

We'll make it through to the Trek era, I've no doubt. The GETTING THERE might not be as pleasant as we'd like, though...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 12:41 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


Uhhh, you've been responding to Raptor...you might want to see to that.

To quote Joker:
"Who is this loss?"


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 12:44 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:




According to the book I'm holding (The Rappyworld Guide To Factual Assumptions) that chart is backwards.
Which means it's spot on.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 12:57 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
But yeah, sooner or later, Chris, sooner or later.
My own preparations for this have long since been laid, it's other people I worry about, and how difficult it's gonna be to assist communities in denial when the ball goes up and they find out that the "forces of law and order" are in truth the bad guys



"They blinked and before they knew it they turned over the store to a bunch of thugs who were happy to take it off their hands. Overnight, the government, the police, everything intended to protect the people had been turned against them.
....Look, maybe we got screwed out of living in a time when we could hang out for the afternoon in a cafe someplace wearing $2,000 wristwatches, planning our next vacation, but the world got a whole lot meaner all of a sudden. It wasn't supposed to, but it did. So now it's back to the law of the jungle, and there are predators and victims."

Ummm, need I say where this came from or what I predicted based on it?




The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:11 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The American Dream is alive and well...in Denmark!



With the population of Denmark less than some US cities and 80% of their GDP coming from the service sector I don’t know if industrialized even applies to Denmark. The only reason there is opportunity in Demark is because they live next to Germany which is an industrial powerhouse. The same can be said about Canada, if they didn’t share a border with the US the only opportunity in Canada would be for the Japanese and Chinese to exploit their natural resources.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Bill and Ted rock! I love the first movie, with the time machine phone booth and Genghis Khan, I can't figure out why they have him not talking in human speech, just making silly noises, oh well its funny anyways.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



When you have further to go, it's easier to make up lots of ground than when you're standard of living is already pretty good.

And yes, I'll dismiss the apples to apples attempted comparison of a country with 5.5 million people to one of some 300 million. Just not an equal or valid side by side, sorry.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:35 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:

With the population of Denmark less than some US cities and 80% of their GDP coming from the service sector I don’t know if industrialized even applies to Denmark. The only reason there is opportunity in Demark is because they live next to Germany which is an industrial powerhouse. The same can be said about Canada, if they didn’t share a border with the US the only opportunity in Canada would be for the Japanese and Chinese to exploit their natural resources.



I find it funny that you think Canada's success in upward mobility is because it is next to the US. So explain then why the US is so much lower.

I would also like a citation on the fact the Denmark's success is because it is next to Germany.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:37 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And yes, I'll dismiss the apples to apples attempted comparison of a country with 5.5 million people to one of some 300 million. Just not an equal or valid side by side, sorry.




Really, explain why other then just the US size, but why that difference in population matters. More so considering that the states in some ways are more like the countries in the EU the the whole of the Republic is.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:46 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Really, explain why

Dear Buddha, are you REALLY asking AU to EXPLAIN something?!?!?!???

BWAHAHAHAHAH, give me some of the drug you're takin'!!!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:56 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And yes, I'll dismiss the apples to apples attempted comparison

To be clever is to blur the point. But you're not clever here, so you just miss it entirely. 20 years from now you'll understand. Maybe. If you haven't killed yourself from the sheer shame of having lived a lie most of your adult life. I *hope* it never comes to that. I *hope* you never have to feel the pain that will come from the decisions YOUR & MY elected officials will cause to rain down upon us. But I doubt it. Enjoy the fantasy while you can, you've been doin' a heck of a job of it so far, Brownie!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Chris, what model glue are you sniffin' ?

Seriously, back away from the table. Open a window.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:30 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Chris, what model glue are you sniffin' ?

Seriously, back away from the table. Open a window.

Heh heh, yeah. Let me unglue myself from reality. A window of the unreal, that's what I need. May I borrow yours?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Looks like you picked the wrong week to stop sniffin glue, huh?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:45 PM

CHRISISALL


Funny Airplane ref.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 5:29 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:

With the population of Denmark less than some US cities and 80% of their GDP coming from the service sector I don’t know if industrialized even applies to Denmark. The only reason there is opportunity in Demark is because they live next to Germany which is an industrial powerhouse. The same can be said about Canada, if they didn’t share a border with the US the only opportunity in Canada would be for the Japanese and Chinese to exploit their natural resources.



I find it funny that you think Canada's success in upward mobility is because it is next to the US. So explain then why the US is so much lower.

I would also like a citation on the fact the Denmark's success is because it is next to Germany.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.


Any objective look at the numbers clearly shows that the amount of opportunity created by those at the top of your chart is miniscule compared with that created by those at the bottom. If you take the combined GDP of Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway they only add up to about half the GDP of France. France alone created more wealth than four of your top five combined. US GDP is almost twice all countries on the chart combined.
You actually think that 80% of Danes in the service sector make their wealth providing services to the 20% in the remaining sectors. They make their wealth selling wooden shoes from Norway, Candy from Sweden and Lederhosen from Finland to rich Germans tourists.
If you compared those with equal education and skills you would find that workers in US are just as upwardly mobile as those in Denmark. Their small population and homogeneous culture make their population more educated and skilled on average than most other countries. This may make a slanted look at the numbers show more upward mobility, but it actually just shows one of the benefits of a fully assimilated society like we had in the past when people came to the US to become educated Americans. Comparing dependent economies with the diversified, self sustaining economy of the US is just silly in my opinion and shows the statistics of desperation.

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Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nobody noticed that Rap completely missed the "relative" part? But then hey ho, we're the greatest nation on earth, remember? WE CAN DO NO WRONG!



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Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:58 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:

Any objective look at the numbers clearly shows that the amount of opportunity created by those at the top of your chart is miniscule compared with that created by those at the bottom.



Yes, because of smaller population. It still stands that person in Denmark has a much better chance to move up economically then a person in the US.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:If you take the combined GDP of Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway they only add up to about half the GDP of France. France alone created more wealth than four of your top five combined. US GDP is almost twice all countries on the chart combined.


Okay...so? GDP is not a measure of wealth creation.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:You actually think that 80% of Danes in the service sector make their wealth providing services to the 20% in the remaining sectors. They make their wealth selling wooden shoes from Norway, Candy from Sweden and Lederhosen from Finland to rich Germans tourists.


No, they make their wealth in trade with countries around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Denmark

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules: If you compared those with equal education and skills you would find that workers in US are just as upwardly mobile as those in Denmark. Their small population and homogeneous culture make their population more educated and skilled on average than most other countries. This may make a slanted look at the numbers show more upward mobility, but it actually just shows one of the benefits of a fully assimilated society like we had in the past when people came to the US to become educated Americans. Comparing dependent economies with the diversified, self sustaining economy of the US is just silly in my opinion and shows the statistics of desperation.



Really, provide evidence that compared those with equal education and skills you would find that workers in US are just as upwardly mobile as those in Denmark and that this has anything to do with their homogeneous culture. I think thing that is a crock!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:36 PM

DREAMTROVE


Only because I'm here right now and it's Chris...


Sorry man, I gotta disagree

1. It's not the end. It's a cyclical return to the historical norm. This will have no serious adverse effects on mankind or life on Earth. Sure, humans are helping, but humans are insignificant overall, except in the far more direct impacts they're having, destroying species, ecosystems, etc.

2. No, the price of food is being manipulated for selective distribution purposes, but the earth produces a hundred times what we can consume in excess foodstuffs. There's no way to sustain a human population on Earth that would even be capable of running out of food, there are more serious problems that would hit first, like disease critical densities, but still, I can see an Earth with a trillion humans without much obstacle. We're hardly a significant Earth biomass, nor a major energy consumer.

3. True, but we're fighting it, and we can win. Strangely I don't think folks like Auraptor are the problem, even when they're on the other side. It's us, and the degree to which we fail to organize and get things done. Rap doesn't really want to destroy the planet, but on occasion he listens to right wing ideologues who might try to convince him that something like fracking is an energy source, which it's not, it's a ponzi derivatives scheme and a form of ethnic cleansing against rurals, but even if the powers that be convince all the uninformed that there's no threat, those people are still not going to stop us from defeating the threat, it's us, and our inability to organize as those who *do* understand, to face the threat. If you crush a threat, Auraptor will not stop you, because he's not the threat, he's just a person who does not believe that, say, mass contamination is a threat, the same way you and I don't believe that islamic terrorism is a threat. Still, if Rap stops terrorists from attacking the US, we don't try to stop him in that task, we probably don't even notice that he's done it.

4. I really agree. I would go further. The economy is dead. I urge the abandonment of the entire system en masse. If a small elite can create more wealth by juggling numbers than the entire productivity of the entire workforce of the country, the economy is dead. If the wealthiset worker at a company can buy all of the lives of all of his employees with his spare cash then the economy is dead. If you can not take the wages from your hour of work and hire an hour of equal or less skilled labor to work for you, than the economy is dead.

Lots of things killed the economy, but most of it was either financial products or taxes, but it doesn't matter now, it's dead, it's been killed. It can't possibly get better unless we start over, so I see no point in waiting...

Still, that said, yes, do more with less. And yeah, Rap shoudl wake up and defend his country against a real threat, and if he doesn't, he is among the all of us that the enemy will kill, but maybe the better take is to just ignore him and move on to those you can actually get to, and actually do something. PN posted something about this a while back.

But don't buy into the end times. It's not the end, we're just losing what little we have, and the more we fight amongst ourselves, the more we lose.

ETA: Ya left one out: civil liberties. This is something we're losing fast.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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