REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What would happen if we had the power

POSTED BY: RIONAEIRE
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 19:11
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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 7:16 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


This is the first time I've started a topic, but now that I know how maybe I'll do it more often. What's up with the "check this topic if its newsworthy"?

So if we were the leaders of the US, we'll include the posters from other places too since we're all here on this forum, what would happen? How would our policies look? How would we handle disputes? Would we be any better at compromise than the goonches in charge in real life? What would the general population think of our policies and decisions? Would we be nicer, or meaner, to each other in person than we are online? Who here would be most likely to be reelected by the American people? Would we be more or less civil than the people who actually are in charge?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 7:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


'We', as in the folks on fff.net ?

Not much would change. There'd be petty squabbles, misunderstandings, childish alliances and pretty much the same sort of mindless power brokering as we see happening everywhere.

We meddle. People don't like to be meddled with.




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Thursday, November 3, 2011 2:59 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not much would change. There'd be petty squabbles, misunderstandings, childish alliances and pretty much the same sort of mindless power brokering as we see happening everywhere.


I'm with you.

But if we had the power...first thing to do is use that power to quickly take it from most of the liberals and crazy talkers here perhaps.

Why screw around? Just get it done up front, be harsh, be brutal, then we can spend the rest of our time getting things done that benefit everyone (everyone else that is). We get rid of most everyone which both eliminates the worst troublemakers and gets of the loyalty of those we spare.

Some might call it wrong, but I've been looking at what the other side does to get their message out and their big plans which mainly comes down to bitching and complaining and then rioting when they don't get their way.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:27 AM

BYTEMITE


Cue Kristallnacht comparisons in three, two...

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:37 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Some might call it wrong...



...and others might call it fascism.

I think we were in power we could come to some agreement for a wide range of things. Yes there would be fighting, but you will always have that in any system of goverment that is not a type of dictatorship.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:43 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Cue Kristallnacht comparisons in three, two...


Didn't you ever see the movie Hoffa? Hoffa gets elected, gives a speech, then tells his guys to fire everybody first thing in the morning. Better to get it all done upfront he says.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:46 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I think we were in power we could come to some agreement for a wide range of things. Yes there would be fighting, but you will always have that in any system of goverment that is not a type of dictatorship.


I agree. I'm all for that on Day 2. Day 1 get rid of the crazy talkers, anarchists, and hard core liberals. Day 2, lots of good things and coming together (maybe even some musical numbers and talking forrest creatures).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:47 AM

BYTEMITE


Your initial post left it somewhat ambiguous just what kind of "fire" and "get rid of" you were talking about.

If you meant 1) you were assuming that the hypothetical here was that everyone on the board would be in some sort of ruling council, and 2) you just meant that you'd gather support to quickly fire all the "liberals and crazy talkers" from their positions, I suppose that's not SO bad, though I can't speak as to say what the reaction would be among half the population we'd theoretically be representing.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:51 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I agree. I'm all for that on Day 2. Day 1 get rid of the crazy talkers, anarchists, and hard core liberals. Day 2, lots of good things and coming together (maybe even some musical numbers and talking forrest creatures).



Or we would just get rid of you, Rappy, Wolf and go about out merry without you. In the end there are more of us then there are of you.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Or we would just get rid of you, Rappy, Wolf and go about out merry without you. In the end there are more of us then there are of you.




Then you'd be left with an organized pile of hot mess, resembling on Occutard encampment. Which, while entertaining to watch, wouldn't actually accomplish very much.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Then you'd be left with an organized pile of hot mess, resembling on Occutard encampment. Which, while entertaining to watch, wouldn't actually accomplish very much.


...I thought y'all were trying to make an argument AGAINST having liberals, crazy talkers, and anarchists in the government.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Then you'd be left with an organized pile of hot mess, resembling on Occutard encampment. Which, while entertaining to watch, wouldn't actually accomplish very much.


...I thought y'all were trying to make an argument AGAINST having liberals, crazy talkers, and anarchists in the government.



" Y'all " ? I merely replied to nickerson's comment. There's no 'y'all' here, just me.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:45 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Would we be any better at compromise than the goonches in charge in real life?



No, (cite: Kwicko v. Rappy) and odds are pretty good we'd even be worse. It always looks easier when you're sitting in the stands with a big foam finger.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:15 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Then you'd be left with an organized pile of hot mess, resembling on Occutard encampment. Which, while entertaining to watch, wouldn't actually accomplish very much.



Let try it and see! Let's set up a mock government here and see what we can do.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, Riona, does this short exchange answer the main question for you? No tolerance, just infighting, starting with the second post. I didn't expect otherwise, but I admit the brutality of it surprised me a mite. I agree with Raptor; what we already have would just be illustrated differently. If people can't control themselves in a forum, they wouldn't do so in an internet "government".

Now, if we tried it in real LIFE, there's at least a possibility that people wouldn't behave as they do here and would get along better. Still, it wouldn't work, in my opinion. There are some mentalities just too set in their ideology and too quick to hate others. It's a shame.



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



You want to play model UN? Have at it.


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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:30 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

You want to play model UN? Have at it.



No it would be model US. What, don't have the courage to try it? Afraid that you could not compromise or get any of your ideas passed?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think so, Nick. I think it's more that he, like the Republicans/Tea Partiers, want total control; the concept of compromise has already been clearly shown as something they have no desire for. Besides, Raptor has no interest in such things, he'd only hear to stir up others and get attention. So all he'd do if we tried is behave in his usual trollish fashion. You need people actually being willing to debate, vote, compromise, etc., which immediately leaves out Hero, Raptor, Wulf and the others of his little clan.

Ergo, just like in the real world, you'd have nothing but some people discussing solutions to problems, and them coming in to throw "libtards", etc., around everywhere. Who wants to play that game??



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:09 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


I know.

I still think it would be interesting to try. In the end those who are unwilling to compromise would simply be ignored.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, yeah right. Like everyone ignores Raptor now, you mean. It's to laugh. No, they'd sidetrack as many threads as we came up with into the usual back-and-forth, and most of us would lose interest. That's MY expectation.

But dream on, Leon...



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:17 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


He could sidetrack and arugue all he wants, but unless he offered something up that a multitude of people could get behind he would be ignored when it came time for a vote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Vote, yes, but I think he'd have a ball threadjacking everything we attempted to discuss up until the vote. He and his cronies, giggling to themselves all the while. I for one am not going to make the attempt; experience has taught me to ignore them for the most part, and partaking in a lengthy thread where they're all over the place triggering people into fights isn't my cup of tea.

By the way, congrats on your first new thread, Riona, you provided something very thought-provoking, despite my own negative expectations. Hopefully now people will move on from my threadjack and discuss your interesting concept.



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Heads.
On spikes.
Out in front of the fortress of doom.

As I have said before, handing ME the reins of power directly, is a bad, bad idea - might as well clone Robespierre.

Having said that though, it confounds and disturbs me that knowing the result, a lot of people are downright cheering on and supporting the notion, which is another thing I gotta deal with...

Yeah verily I *do* have administrative skills, I was a damn good quartermaster thankee, but to hell if I would wanna run other peoples lives for them, the mere notion of it being an affront to any Anarchist worth the name.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

What sort of government are we making? Is it just the United States with different people in charge? If so, who is the President? This is important, because the president appoints a great number of people.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, November 3, 2011 10:48 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think it's more that he, like the Republicans/Tea Partiers, want total control; the concept of compromise has already been clearly shown as something they have no desire for.



So just out of curiosity, where would you be willing to compromise?

What government programs that you really like would you be willing to reduce or end to reduce government spending? I'm not talking about normal liberal targets like military budget or crop subsidies and the like, but stuff that you really thing is a good idea, and is good for your concept of what government should be doing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:07 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

What sort of government are we making? Is it just the United States with different people in charge? If so, who is the President?



For a mock government I was thinking we would have to vote for a president, then each other member would be a senator equivalent.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:09 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
So just out of curiosity, where would you be willing to compromise?

What government programs that you really like would you be willing to reduce or end to reduce government spending? I'm not talking about normal liberal targets like military budget or crop subsidies and the like, but stuff that you really thing is a good idea, and is good for your concept of what government should be doing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



I would think that would depend on what is offered in return.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:10 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


The thread title is actually a quote from a book I haven't read, but it sounded like a great thread title.

Specifics: In this scenario we are all senators/congressfolk. We are getting together in real life as does the congress and senate, so people wouldn't be able to get away with the same stuff they get away with here, probably me included. It would be in the present time with America's present problems. No one could be kicked out, lets pretend its right after an election, so everyone is in for four years unless they decided to quit, on second thought, no quitting, that would skew the results.

Ultimately it would come down to votes like in the real congress/senate. The difference between the real government and us is that they've been doing it for a while and that they've been selected, where as we've been thrown together here, the only commonality between all the posters here is that we all like Firefly, but our opinions are as varied as they come nearly. We've got more extreme views than some of the people in charge, in either direction, ... or maybe we don't after all.
Discuss.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:38 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
So if we were the leaders of the US, ...

...we would be just as petty and ineffective as Congress and the Senate. HOPEFULLY, nothing would get done, but I'm afraid we would do more harm than good.

I think if we actually had power, we should ALL put everything we have into space travel/colonization technology. Once we have the ability to blow this popstand, you guys can have the earth that was, and leave us anarchists alone.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

You want to play model UN? Have at it.



No it would be model US. What, don't have the courage to try it? Afraid that you could not compromise or get any of your ideas passed?



Y'all can play pretend, I'll stay in the real world.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:43 PM

BYTEMITE


Don't vote for me, I'm crazy and my chaotic alignment makes me really irresponsible. I'd be looking to fob off whatever powers you give me on someone else at the first chance, and it's pretty likely that person would not be who any of you wanted me to give power to.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 2:39 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Don't vote for me, I'm crazy and my chaotic alignment makes me really irresponsible. I'd be looking to fob off whatever powers you give me on someone else at the first chance, and it's pretty likely that person would not be who any of you wanted me to give power to.


Hello,

Vote for Byte! Honesty in government!

Actually, the election's already over according to the specifications laid out by Riona.

You're already in, Senator. Fob away!

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, November 3, 2011 2:50 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I would think that would depend on what is offered in return.



If you're the ones who really want compromise, shouldn't you make the first offer? What are you willing to give up?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, I'd be quite happy to look at everything and anything, as I'm well aware there are useless and/or badly-managed programs supported by the government which we SHOULD do away with. As for
Quote:

stuff that you really thing is a good idea, and is good for your concept of what government should be doing
why would I be willing to cut something which I FIRMLY believe is good for the country and its people? That doesn't make sense. I'm not even sure about cutting subsidies, I think it would have to be looked at very seriously and considered very carefully. The military is easy, of course, do even YOU insist that there's nothing there that can be cut??

So, aside from specifics because we haven't gotten specific, I'm quite willing to talk compromise. Where would YOU be willing to compromise? Raising taxes? Not reducing NECESSARY regulations? Loopholes? I'm with you on getting rid of some of the ridiculous regulations, ones that have outlived their usefulness, ones that are badly mismanaged and don't accomplish what they're supposed to, or ones that



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,



I don't think there can be any doubt. We are number One in spending for the military. If we spend only as much as numbers Two Through Ten Combined, then we could shave 200 Billion off of our military budget. And then we'd only have sufficient military spending to match the nine next biggest militaries in the world.

I have never heard of a spending cut that would generate so much savings, and I have never heard of government spending that was more absolutely bonkers.

The Senator from Arizona votes that we shave those 200 Billion from the budget, and that we satisfy ourselves with outspending the next nine most powerful countries in the world.

--Anthony






_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Besides, Raptor has no interest in such things ..."

It struck me in the other thread where he posted a blank video and never noticed until it was pointed out to him, TWICE. People who REALLY want to communicate tend to review their posts - Did that come across? Was it complete? Was my spelling OK? Did I address the point?

Apparently not Raptard. Nope.

And that tells me tons about what he's doing here.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"What government programs that you really like would you be willing to reduce or end to reduce government spending? I'm not talking about normal liberal targets like military budget or crop subsidies and the like ..."

Why not? After all, if you can't argue for something on its CONCRETE MERITS (and not vague words like 'security' or 'liberty') - and I presume any decisions would be made only after discussion - then what is the basis for your insistence on your fixed position?

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Friday, November 4, 2011 1:41 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I would think that would depend on what is offered in return.



If you're the ones who really want compromise, shouldn't you make the first offer? What are you willing to give up?

"Keep the Shiny side up"



I would be willing to reduce Medicare and Medicaid spending by 50 and 25 billion dollars respectivly if you agree to reduce Military spending by 150 billion. I would say those cut could come over 3 years.

Now we have about a trillion dollar budget shortfall to make up here.

http://deathandtaxesposter.com/

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Besides, Raptor has no interest in such things ..."

It struck me in the other thread where he posted a blank video and never noticed until it was pointed out to him, TWICE. People who REALLY want to communicate tend to review their posts - Did that come across? Was it complete? Was my spelling OK? Did I address the point?

Apparently not Raptard. Nope.

And that tells me tons about what he's doing here.



I hate to do this....well, maybe just a little, but this just shows how limited you are in your thinking. You DO know there is a beta site for fireflyfans.net, right ? On there, the link DID show up, every time. On the 'classic' site, the link was blank. I DID go back and check out my post, and , as you can see, eventually solved the issue so that the video DID post, correctly.

So, apparently, as is the case with so much of how you see things, you're wrong. But I'm guessin you're use to that by now, huh?




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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:26 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Geezer, I'd be quite happy to look at everything and anything, as I'm well aware there are useless and/or badly-managed programs supported by the government which we SHOULD do away with. As for
Quote:

stuff that you really thing is a good idea, and is good for your concept of what government should be doing
why would I be willing to cut something which I FIRMLY believe is good for the country and its people? That doesn't make sense.



You do realize that this is pretty much exactly what the Republicans are saying?

They're willing to do away with what they consider wasteful useless programs, but stuff that they FIRMLY believe in, like not increasing taxes or spending, they aren't likely to compromise on.



Me, I have no problem with a moderate tax increase, if it were to be used only to pay down the debt. I'd like to see it linked with a modest decrease in tax-related entitlements such as EITC and Child Credit, so everyone who files a tax return gets to feel like they're contributing.

With the drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'd expect a reduction in the military budget to be doable, with some of the saved money spent on more assistance for returning vets.

The big entitlement programs - Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid - are fun to talk about, but for all practical purposes cuts are off the table. It'd be political suicide for either party. About all that could be done there would be to find whatever efficiencies can be identified and use them.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"What government programs that you really like would you be willing to reduce or end to reduce government spending? I'm not talking about normal liberal targets like military budget or crop subsidies and the like ..."

Why not? After all, if you can't argue for something on its CONCRETE MERITS (and not vague words like 'security' or 'liberty') - and I presume any decisions would be made only after discussion - then what is the basis for your insistence on your fixed position?



Trying to talk compromise here. That generally means everyone gives up something to get someting. Saying things should be argued only on their merits ignores the fact that different folks and factions see merits in different things.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:33 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I would be willing to reduce Medicare and Medicaid spending by 50 and 25 billion dollars respectivly if you agree to reduce Military spending by 150 billion.



Fine with me. However, I'm afraid that trying to cut Medicare/Medicaid is gonna be a poison pill with the electorate for either party.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:why would I be willing to cut something which I FIRMLY believe is good for the country and its people? That doesn't make sense.



You do realize that this is pretty much exactly what the Republicans are saying?

They're willing to do away with what they consider wasteful useless programs, but stuff that they FIRMLY believe in, like not increasing taxes or spending, they aren't likely to compromise on.



This is why the concept of 'compromise' doesn't always work. Not everything CAN be compromised on.

Say I want to have sex with your wife and daughter. You object. I listen to your objections, but reiterate that I REALLY want to have sex with both of them. As I see it, it's the right thing to do. You object again. I then ask for you to work with me, compromise, meet me half way...just let me have sex with your daughter, and we'll call it even.

See how absurd that is ? And yet there are some who are so in love with the process, the idea of "compromise", they've lost sight of what it is that 's really important.

Which is why being a country of laws, and not of man, is what's so crucial. We don't have mob rule or a pure democracy, where the simple needs of the majority win out, every time. We have a constitution, and a framework of principles, with which to work.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:47 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Fine with me. However, I'm afraid that trying to cut Medicare/Medicaid is gonna be a poison pill with the electorate for either party.



They are going to have to be cut, or changed to reduce how much they cost.

That is simply a pill that some of out elected officals are going to have to take.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:51 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
This is why the concept of 'compromise' doesn't always work. Not everything CAN be compromised on.

Say I want to have sex with your wife and daughter. You object. I listen to your objections, but reiterate that I REALLY want to have sex with both of them. As I see it, it's the right thing to do. You object again. I then ask for you to work with me, compromise, meet me half way...just let me have sex with your daughter, and we'll call it even.

See how absurd that is ? And yet there are some who are so in love with the process, the idea of "compromise", they've lost sight of what it is that 's really important.

Which is why being a country of laws, and not of man, is what's so crucial. We don't have mob rule or a pure democracy, where the simple needs of the majority win out, every time. We have a constitution, and a framework of principles, with which to work.



Of course not everything can be compromised, but a lot can. That is the point.

You also have to remember that the framers of the constitution made it so that we could change that constitution. They understood that if it was unchanging it would be doomed to fail.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:.

You also have to remember that the framers of the constitution made it so that we could change that constitution. They understood that if it was unchanging it would be doomed to fail.



So, you've gone from cuts in medicare to changing the constitution ?

Umm.... ok. What are you wanting to change ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:10 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Umm.... ok. What are you wanting to change ?



Nothing right now. I was mearly responding to your statment regarding the constitution as our nations frame work.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Umm.... ok. What are you wanting to change ?



Nothing right now. I was mearly responding to your statment regarding the constitution as our nations frame work.



My point on the constitution was to show that we're a nation of laws, not men. Do you understand what that even means ? If you want to have a separate conversation on constitutional amendments, fine, but this talk of compromise is futile with out a basis on which to work. Which is why I was including the comments I did, where Niki says she'll compromise, but not on the crucial points SHE thinks are important.

HUH??

The points SHE thinks are vital are often the very ones I think should be abolished entirely, or greatly reduced. Healthcare isn't a 'right'. You have no 'right' to another person's time or life, and yet Niki here seems to think she does. On this, there IS no compromise.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
My point on the constitution was to show that we're a nation of laws, not men. Do you understand what that even means ? If you want to have a separate conversation on constitutional amendments, fine, but this talk of compromise is futile with out a basis on which to work. Which is why I was including the comments I did, where Niki says she'll compromise, but not on the crucial points SHE thinks are important.



I understand what you mean, but we are a nation of men. Laws are nothing more then a construct of men. Those laws can be changed. They are not some unmovable framework.

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
HUH??

The points SHE thinks are vital are often the very ones I think should be abolished entirely, or greatly reduced. Healthcare isn't a 'right'. You have no 'right' to another person's time or life, and yet Niki here seems to think she does. On this, there IS no compromise.



...and on that and other issues where thers is no compromise you have the situation of majority rules. That is why we vote and the popular vote wins. It is for those time when there is no room for compromise.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I DID go back and check out my post .."

But only after it was pointed out to you twice over three and a half hours. Apparently, you didn't bother to even so much as LOOK at your post.



We have to realize that the biosphere we live in is fragile and cannot be treated like a battered wife because the surface of the planet itself is not fragile. It will simply adjust probably eliminating us in the process. The core of the planet is beyond our ability to affect and can deal up some pretty horrific to us events. The space around the planet is hostile beyond our comprehension. And there are no exits.

EVERY SINGLE YEAR BETWEEN 1996 AND 2005 66% OF ALL FCDS CORPORATIONS PAID NO TAXES.
I think the current tax structure is about right for corporations. - Geezer


Without the benefit of the surrounding society, a corporation dies. If society looks at a corporation and says 'work, or die', what work should be demanded of the corporation for it to earn its survival?

While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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