REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Family-court judge whips disabled daughter

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, November 7, 2011 05:30
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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


By now I'm sure we all know about this one, but I thought I'd put it up to see what discussion it provoked.

Warning: The video is pretty sickening, so don't watch if you're not prepared. It goes on for 7 and a half minutes, and the verbal abuse is almost as bad as the physical abuse:



There's also this:
Quote:

A woman who launched a firestorm by posting a 2004 video of her father, a Texas judge, beating her on the Internet said Thursday that violence was a regular occurrence in her family home.

"It did happen regularly, for a period of time, and I could tell, because of the pattern, that things were escalating again," Hillary Adams, now 23, said on NBC's "Today." She said she left her video camera on her dresser recording and covered its light with a scarf in order to capture the video.

Her father, Aransas County, Texas, Court-At-Law Judge William Adams, faces a police investigation and a judicial probe after the graphic video surfaced of him striking his then-16-year-old daughter repeatedly while cursing at her and berating her.

On Wednesday afternoon, William Adams was temporarily relieved of his duties for the next two weeks, and a visiting judge will take over his caseload while the matter is being investigated, according to the office of Aransas County Administrative Judge Burt Mills.

No court dates were scheduled this week, Mills' office said.

A woman who launched a firestorm by posting a 2004 video of her father, a Texas judge, beating her on the Internet said Thursday that violence was a regular occurrence in her family home.

"It did happen regularly, for a period of time, and I could tell, because of the pattern, that things were escalating again," Hillary Adams, now 23, said on NBC's "Today." She said she left her video camera on her dresser recording and covered its light with a scarf in order to capture the video.

Her father, Aransas County, Texas, Court-At-Law Judge William Adams, faces a police investigation and a judicial probe after the graphic video surfaced of him striking his then-16-year-old daughter repeatedly while cursing at her and berating her.

On Wednesday afternoon, William Adams was temporarily relieved of his duties for the next two weeks, and a visiting judge will take over his caseload while the matter is being investigated, according to the office of Aransas County Administrative Judge Burt Mills.

No court dates were scheduled this week, Mills' office said.

The 2004 beating occurred when her father was punishing her for using the Internet "to acquire music and games that were unavailable for legal purchase at the time," Hillary Adams wrote on the Internet posting. She said she released the video after being harassed by her father.

"It was the straw that broke the camel's back," she said Thursday. "It wasn't any huge happening or anything." She said she told her father she had the video, "and he didn't seem to think anything of it, and basically dared me to post it."

The video posting said, "Judge William Adams is not fit to be anywhere near the law system if he can't even exercise fit judgment as a parent himself. Do not allow this man to ever be re-elected again. His 'judgment' is a giant farce. Signed, Hillary Adams, his daughter."

Receiving an outpouring of support after posting the video has been like a form of therapy, she told KRIS, which is based in Corpus Christi, Texas.

"People are believing us now, instead of calling us liars like they have in the past," she said.

The video is punctuated by cracks of the man's belt and the girl's screams and cries.

At one point, the man says to his near-hysterical daughter, "What happened to you, Hillary? Once you were an obedient, nice little girl. Now you lie, cheat and steal."

At another point in the 7 1/2-minute video, he yells at her, "You want to put some more computer games on? You want some more?"

"Are you happy?" he asks her. "Disobeying your parents? You don't deserve to f---ing be in this house."

He also berates the girl's mother for allowing a "f---ing computer" in the house.

The older woman also strikes the girl with a belt once, and near the end of the video instructs the girl not to "touch one other thing on the computer besides your schoolwork until you are given notice otherwise."

Hillary Adams "has had ataxic cerebral palsy from birth that led her to a passion for technology, which was strictly forbidden by her father's backwards views," according to the posting on the YouTube video.

Aransas County Attorney Richard Bianchi said his office has been overwhelmed with calls and e-mails, including some from overseas, since the video went viral on the Internet.

"Just a sad day. It's unfortunate for all the people in that video. It doesn't bode well for the image of our community or our judiciary or our legal community in Aransas County," Bianchi said.

William Adams is up for re-election in three years, Mills told CNN. He was elected to a four-year term last year, said Aransas County Clerk Peggy Friebele

CNN tried repeatedly on Wednesday to reach William Adams at his Rockport, Texas, office, but received a constant busy signal.

But Adams told KRIS that the conduct is "not as bad as it looks on tape." The judge said he had contacted judicial review officials in Austin and "more will come out" in the investigation, KRIS reported.

Asked what he might mean, Hallie Adams said on "Today," "I think that the story that's going to come out ... in his mind is that he's projected his problem onto me. For the entire four years since I've left the marriage, I've been abused and harassed through texts, e-mail." She said she told William Adams in June that she would not speak to him again, and "he has threatened to file for modification and take my younger daughter away from me."

Asked whether she wants her father to lose his job, Hillary Adams said on "Today," "I think wishing anybody to lose their job is not a really good thing to do," but "his being fit for the job, that's something I really can't say that he is."

She said she believes her father has been punished enough by the video being made public, "and I just think he really needs help and rehabilitation. We need to get him counseling or something."

Asked if she regretted posting it, she said, "I regret that some of my friends and some people close to me have kind of had trouble with this, and of course I regret that it's my own father. I'm having very mixed feelings about that, but at the same time so many people are telling me I did the right thing." More at http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/justice/texas-video-beating/index.html?h
pt=hp_t2

Personally, I think the man has some severe problems and shouldn't be deciding family-court issues.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Good ol' Republican family values!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:48 AM

BYTEMITE


The guy should loose his job, sure. Disproportionate Retribution. Though I do have some questions about what exactly she was downloading - The RIAA industry and the anti-piracy security are a bunch of garbage, but at the same time the pirates aren't right either.

If they were games without ports that couldn't be shipped, sometimes there's no other way to get them. Though it can be a little questionable because the original producers of the games don't get any money.

Perhaps the saddest thing of all is that the video was taken when she was 16, and she had to wait until 23 before anyone would have believed her. If she had been believed and had been emancipated earlier, might she have been saved from some of this?



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:06 AM

HKCAVALIER


The most disturbing moment for me is when the mother comes in and for a nanosecond I'm thinking some level of molification is in the offing, but no. Mom's the Enforcer, she's gonna get that unruly animal to turn over on her belly and finally submit. All the mother has to do at that point is slap her daughter's butt once and walk away tossing a curt "thank you" over her shoulder. Makes Dad look like an amateur.

And this for using the internet. Not the child's worst offense, I'm sure--nor the content of this video his.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Cav, I felt the same. I'd already read the article so knew the mother had been involved; I'm glad she spoke up now about her shame. She and the daughter both indicated you were right in that '--nor the content of this video his'. Some families are so sad, and what it does to the kids...!

Choey watched the beginning of it and shrugged, saying "yeah, that's how it was in my family, too". She still suffers PTSD from some of the violence of her home life, and I see in many ways how it has shaped her, and her life. I'm just proud of her that she's overcome so MUCH of it, but I don't think people who go through things like that ever completely recover. Not just the one whipping, but the fact that it wasn't unusual in either of their cases, so one can only imagine what they went through before they eventually left home!



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Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh believe me, I saw it - before now even, as if I didn't have ENOUGH ass to kick on my plate already, grrr

And people wonder why I take such a goddamn aggressive stance... if they knew just how commonplace this kinda shit is, how tolerated it is, in some communities even lauded as good parenting, wouldn't be no wondering left to do.

Also, if you wanna make a partisan issue of it, feel free, cause damn right it's overwhelmingly those supposedly-conservative fucking barbarians who are the primary supporters of this kind of thing, especially the religious end of that particular nuttery, AND they're still pissed off that you can't (at least publicly or legally) do that shit to your wife no more - which is one reason I consider any female so-called-conservative about as ridiculous as a goddamn afro-american klan member.

They're also, empirically, 12-to-1 versus so-called-liberals when it comes to sexual abuse against kids too, but of course no one dares officially investigate that particular problem (cause it don't seem to make no damn sense on the face of it!) because they don't wanna know the answers...

And folks wonder why I consider modern conservatism a form of mental illness.

And let's not pass up this gem from Twin Rivers..
Twin Rivers Police Association stops sales of controversial T-shirts
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/01/4020655/twin-rivers-police-associatio
n.html


Which shows EXACTLY how school police generally feel about the kids they're supposedly protecting, on top of many, many cases of abuse and exploitation - so what exactly are the bastards protecting them FROM, hmmm ?

You ask me, anything with a badge is on the wrong side of the bars.

Anyhow, this n worse folk, this n worse...
And imma be outta here in about four hours, and for the forseeable future, couple days at least, trying to deal with it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Choey watched the beginning of it and shrugged, saying "yeah, that's how it was in my family, too". She still suffers PTSD from some of the violence of her home life, and I see in many ways how it has shaped her, and her life. I'm just proud of her that she's overcome so MUCH of it, but I don't think people who go through things like that ever completely recover. Not just the one whipping, but the fact that it wasn't unusual in either of their cases, so one can only imagine what they went through before they eventually left home!




Hell, same thing here. If I so much as *tried* to sleep in on a Saturday morning (say, 'til 8:00am, maybe), my old man would use a broomstick on the bottoms of my feet to get me "motivated". Beatings were regular, and may as well have been scheduled, and were done with whatever fell to hand. Hell, I *envied* the kids who got beaten on the ass with a belt - mine were often as not a 2x4 across the back.

And it's really kind of funny in a way, because I'm basically estranged from my brothers and sister because I "didn't show enough emotion" when my dad died. I've tried explaining to them that I don't *HAVE* that much emotion to show, or the ability to show it anymore; it was all beaten out of me decades ago.

PTSD is probably as apt a description for it as any. I've had people die in my arms - including my father - and not been able to summon much of a reaction other than "He's gone." But if someone so much as slaps the bottom of my feet, I'll just about come unglued.

But yeah, the A-Number-One reason I don't have kids and never will? The fear that I might somehow turn out just like my father. It ends with me.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:44 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That's so awful. I didn't watch the video, that isn't something I need to expose myself to. I just don't understand how people can treat their kids that way. So maybe she was breaking a piracy rule, maybe she wasn't, but it doesn't really matter because whipping your kids and beating them is never okay. I feel that he shouldn't be deciding family court cases if he can't control his own behavior toward his family. He should get some other job in law that isn't family related, at least until he gets some counceling. Did this happen a lot? Did he ever make a change in his behavior and reform himself?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I think I heard the judge say, in his defense, that she had it comin', and it looked worse than it really was.

But he was ashamed that he swore. He feels real sorry 'bout that.


Bad judge. bad !


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:48 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bad judge. bad !

He's so bad, we ALL agree he is bad.

That is PURTY bad.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:53 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
...But if someone so much as slaps the bottom of my feet, I'll just about come unglued.

But yeah, the A-Number-One reason I don't have kids and never will? The fear that I might somehow turn out just like my father. It ends with me.

That breaks my heart, Mike. I am so sorry you suffered so much.

I don't know you from Adam, but your conscientiousness about not wanting to pass this on makes me suspect you would make a better father than you might think.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:57 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Which shows EXACTLY how school police generally feel about the kids they're supposedly protecting...

Wow, a Freudian slip from a psychopath... or a psychopath being honest for a change.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The fear that I might somehow turn out just like my father.
Ahh, but Mike, CTS has an excellent point; it's usually the OPPOSITE with thinking people. That came as a surprise to me, given how much we're used to hearing that abusers create abusers. Not talking about SEXUAL abusers, and certainly thinking people are in the minority, but in my years in the mental health community, I've been interested to watch mothers (and fathers) who came from abusively mentally-ill parents have that constant fear, and turn out to be some of the best parents around. It's actually part of the reason I determined not to have kids, too, so I wasn't prepared to learn that.

Riona, to your questions, it appears he never changed, tho' the mother did. I don't want ANYONE watching ANY video I put up like that if they're uncomfortable doing so, so good for you. You're right, nobody needs to expose themselves to stuff that will upset them unless there's good reason. The facts of what he did, in this case, are quite sufficient!

And yes, the consensus seems to be that he should be removed; that having someone of that mentality deciding what constitutes child abuse in family court is downright WRONG!

By the way, it wasn't piracy or anything; she downloaded some songs and stuff and he didn't want her "playing" with the computer, only using it for school work.

I don't get what you're saying, tho', CTS, when it comes to Frem. I looked, but couldn't find any Freudian slip, and the statement is perfectly in line with Frem's beliefs. Aside from which, I don't consider him a psychopath...



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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

I don't get what you're saying, tho', CTS, when it comes to Frem. I looked, but couldn't find any Freudian slip, and the statement is perfectly in line with Frem's beliefs. Aside from which, I don't consider him a psychopath...




I think CTS was referring to some of the quotes in the article Frem linked, not to Frem's actual statement. At least, that's how I read it. Read the article and see if you don't agree.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 6:08 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

By the way, it wasn't piracy or anything; she downloaded some songs and stuff


That's technically piracy unless the people who made the music or video games were distributing them over the internet for free. Which is pretty rare.

Of course she didn't deserve this, because neither do I think this is that big a deal. And like I said, probably the reason she didn't post this is because of being subject from the same widespread mentality of her father that children are fantasizers and no one believing her despite the evidence. But she might also have been concerned someone would come along and charge her with a crime.

Our justice system for you.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 6:15 AM

STORYMARK


Not to defend his actions here, but from reading up on it a bit more, I kinda believe his "It looks worse than it is" defense.

The girl had been told not to do something. When she got caught, she set up the camera, and to me, it seems like she eggs things on and plays it up a bit.

Then she holds onto the tape for 7 years, only releasing it after telling her father he'd be sorry if he took away her Mercedes for dropping out of college.

Given that she has a younger sister in the house, if abuse was an ongoing thing, and she held back the evidence for personal gain, I'd almost hold her culpable to anything that happens to the sister.

Basically - it sounds like one big ol messed up family, and none of them comes out looking good.

Thoguh Id be totally happy with Dad loosing his place on the bench, ASAP.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 4, 2011 6:16 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

By the way, it wasn't piracy or anything; she downloaded some songs and stuff and he didn't want her "playing" with the computer, only using it for school work.



It's not "Argh, ye land-lubbers" piracy, no. But it was piracy.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 4, 2011 8:36 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I don't get what you're saying, tho', CTS, when it comes to Frem. I looked, but couldn't find any Freudian slip, and the statement is perfectly in line with Frem's beliefs. Aside from which, I don't consider him a psychopath...

LOL. No, I didn't call Frem a psychopath. (Not that he isn't one... ) ROFL.

The psychopath I was talking about was the cop who designed the t-shirt that said, "You raise 'em. We cage 'em." The picture shows a young child (older toddler) behind bars.

To me, it is showing the true colors of some psychopathic members of the police force. The fact that they showed their true colors was either honesty or a Freudian slip.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Friday, November 4, 2011 9:19 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

But yeah, the A-Number-One reason I don't have kids and never will? The fear that I might somehow turn out just like my father. It ends with me.



Good call - if you have those feelings it's good you listened to them. For sure, if you had had children knowing what you know and you did get physical with them (and let's be honest, the sweetest child can still rile up Mother T.) you would be in a true living hell, probably never forgive yourself which of course would tighten the knot even farther. I think you chose wisely, especially if you take after your dad in other ways.

When I see this video I can't imagine how kids (especially girl kids) can make a man that angry. Beating is so personal. Just take her computer away d-sh*t! I can kind of see a smack from one male to another, but this is a go to jail kind of beating. I don't care what she did or threatened.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, November 4, 2011 12:33 PM

BYTEMITE


...Well, to be fair to the girl, like I said, we don't know what she was downloading, and it really sounded like the father didn't really know either, on top of not really understanding computers in general.

So being told not to do something when essentially the person telling you is clueless, and then getting beaten for it by that same person... I'd say that's a major retaliation for something that's probably minor. I'm more inclined to side with the person who has a clue and got beaten.

Judging by the reaction of the parents, it was less so much what she was downloading (which they didn't even KNOW, good sign of parenting right there), but rather that she was disobedient. They kept emphasizing that. That's the real reason she was beaten, not because the father, a JUDGE, was overly concerned whether she may have committed a crime or not (which leads me to suspect not, but as I said, I don't know for sure). It speaks to some skewed priorities.

However:

Quote:

Then she holds onto the tape for 7 years, only releasing it after telling her father he'd be sorry if he took away her Mercedes for dropping out of college.

Given that she has a younger sister in the house, if abuse was an ongoing thing, and she held back the evidence for personal gain, I'd almost hold her culpable to anything that happens to the sister.



I hadn't realized. That's also pretty bad.

Though even the mother has come out and agreed this was abusive. So I think whatever we can say about the character of the girl, what happened to her (and yes, what might have happened to her younger sister) is still plainly wrong.


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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:14 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I hadn't realized. That's also pretty bad.

That's what *he* says. She says she was being harassed by him. His perspectives appear to be a little skewed on the weird side. I wouldn't take his side of the story on face value.

It really doesn't matter if she were the most evil girl in the world. No child deserves that kind of lashing.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Friday, November 4, 2011 4:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... we're used to hearing that abusers create abusers ..."

The statistics I've read are that 9 of 10 abused will become abusers, 1 in 10 will learn the opposite lesson.

However, if I was Kwicko, I would wonder about myself - Is my current make-up suitable for child-raising? Are there hidden booby traps that might go off? Will circumstances cause me to react in an unanticipated and destructive way?

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Friday, November 4, 2011 6:29 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


We went thru some of this when our kids were little; they were in court custody for 6 weeks total, living with their grandmother until the whole thing was dropped-- the reaction of everybody involved, prosecutors, judge, etc., was " Why did anybody report this? We got real problems to deal with, ain't got time for this minor league stuff."

Here in California, bunches of folks are MANDATED REPORTERS-- if they even get a hint, they ARE REQUIRED by law to report and follow up.

But the real point I want to make is this: In the parenting classes we took as a result, the instructor explained to us the current pragmatic definitions of the California laws. If you hit a kid with ANYTHING other than your open palm, it was Felony Abuse. If you hit a kid anywhere but on the clothed butt, it was Felony Abuse. If you did ANY injury to the kid, it was Felony Abuse. If you left ANY kind of mark, it was Felony Abuse.

As the instructor put it, " I'm not telling you how to discipline your kids, or what to believe or do, I'm just telling you the way the law is applied. Do any of these things, let a Mandated Reporter find out about it, and you WILL got to Jail."
She was a Mandated Reporter herself, she stopped a class once in the middle when one of the parents said something, told us ALL, PUBLICLY that she had to report what he just said. She kept the guy after class, and we never saw him again.

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Friday, November 4, 2011 6:54 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
However, if I was Kwicko, I would wonder about myself - Is my current make-up suitable for child-raising? Are there hidden booby traps that might go off? Will circumstances cause me to react in an unanticipated and destructive way?



Good questions all. Just a note of caution. You don't have to be a perfect person to become a parent. If Kwicko answers any of these questions unfavorably, it doesn't mean he shouldn't become a parent.

I think it is more complicated than that. I think someone who would ask those questions to begin with, who is conscientious and interested in being the best parent one can be, who is self-aware and introspective--that person already has a head start over lots of parents who were never "abused," but who are so certain of their model of child-raising that they would never think twice about these issues.

Obviously, we all WANT to be perfect parents. But raising kids is a journey of growth for everyone involved.

I'd rather take my chances with triggering Kwicko's booby traps than with someone say, like James Dobson.

Just sayin'. It's complicated.




-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Friday, November 4, 2011 8:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"... we're used to hearing that abusers create abusers ..."

The statistics I've read are that 9 of 10 abused will become abusers, 1 in 10 will learn the opposite lesson.

However, if I was Kwicko, I would wonder about myself - Is my current make-up suitable for child-raising? Are there hidden booby traps that might go off? Will circumstances cause me to react in an unanticipated and destructive way?




It really doesn't matter whether my make-up is suitable for child-raising, since I won't be fathering any children. I'm nearing 50, my wife's the same, and children aren't in our future. We're blessed with many nieces and nephews, though, and they're great fun in small doses. Just think - we're the folks who get to feed them Coke and Pop Rocks, and then hand them back to their parents. We also get to buy them noisy toys.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:00 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


It really doesn't matter whether my make-up is suitable for child-raising, since I won't be fathering any children. I'm nearing 50, my wife's the same, and children aren't in our future. We're blessed with many nieces and nephews, though, and they're great fun in small doses. Just think - we're the folks who get to feed them Coke and Pop Rocks, and then hand them back to their parents. We also get to buy them noisy toys.




No one takes your signature (or AU blow ups) seriously:

Officially the Angriest Man on the Internetâ„¢.

fwiw my wife and I are in the same boat as you, no kids and no regrets. We have a lot of parents quietly tell us we did the right thing too.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


It really doesn't matter whether my make-up is suitable for child-raising, since I won't be fathering any children. I'm nearing 50, my wife's the same, and children aren't in our future. We're blessed with many nieces and nephews, though, and they're great fun in small doses. Just think - we're the folks who get to feed them Coke and Pop Rocks, and then hand them back to their parents. We also get to buy them noisy toys.




No one takes your signature (or AU blow ups) seriously:

Officially the Angriest Man on the Internetâ„¢.

fwiw my wife and I are in the same boat as you, no kids and no regrets. We have a lot of parents quietly tell us we did the right thing too.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





The tagline is my online alter-ego. Note it says I'm the angriest man ON THE INTERNET. Not the angriest man in real life. :)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:24 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hi Kwicko

Oh, I kinda understood that. It's that when you were deciding back then, I thought that's what might have been going through your mind. It seems to me if you were confident about your nature, you would have decided differently. That's all.

Quote:

Just think - we're the folks who get to feed them Coke and Pop Rocks, and then hand them back to their parents. We also get to buy them noisy toys.



I used to call that the 'privilege of being a grandparent' until I realized it extended to aunts and uncles, great aunts and great uncles, close family friends etc. Now I don't know what to call it. But yeah - isn't it great? All the fun - none of the responsibility! Also, what I have discovered about children in general, whether your own or someone else's, is when they get into their teens and twenties they keep you plugged into the modern world. You get to find out what are all the latest trends, the newest technology, best slang, etc. It keeps an old mind like mine young(er) (well, as much as possible).

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 4:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'll say what I always say about the back and forth of your situation, Mike. At least you gave it THOUGHT. Once again I will quote Keanu Reeve's character in Parenthood:
Quote:

You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
Given the number of butt-reaming assholes out there having kids, I think you would have been just fine.

As to the woman, I don't know when she left home, but I read that one of the reasons she didn't share the video was she was still living under his roof. Maybe once out it didn't matter to her so much, but something (I forget what) happened recently that spurred her to put it up. Which apparently she regrets now and says she still loves her father.

As to what she was downloading, I believe it had absolutely nothing to do with piracy. She had disobeyed--I believe it was about doing anything "fun" with the internet, when the father hated it, didn't want the computer there, and supposedly she only used it for school work. You can hear all that in the video.



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Saturday, November 5, 2011 6:43 AM

BYTEMITE


>_>

Hey, Kwicko. You holdin' up all right?

Me and Riona don't think we'll have kids either. I think all of us are fine letting our siblings have kids instead. There's gonna be Kwicko-kin and Riona-kin and Bytemite-kin all right without us adding to it.

A person makes a choice, well in some cases they may change their minds, but when they make a choice, whatever reasons they have, that's their choice.

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
>_>

Hey, Kwicko. You holdin' up all right?



No worries. I'm actually a fairly Zen person in real life. I may have lost my temper three times in my life, if that - and those were all when I was much younger. I can sense the triggers now, and I chill myself out. I realize I have a choice - I can become instantly ultra-violent and destructive (even self-destructive), or I can extract myself from the situation and get centered. If it's an internal thing, where I'm mad at myself, the anger comes quicker; if it's an external trigger, I realize that someone's just trying to push buttons, and I can shrug it off, laugh it off, ignore it, or leave - all the things that used to drive my father and brothers nuts, because it robbed them of their easy "win".

Ironically, they all ended up with high blood pressure, while mine is actually borderline LOW. Sometimes the best revenge really is living well. :)

Quote:


Me and Riona don't think we'll have kids either. I think all of us are fine letting our siblings have kids instead. There's gonna be Kwicko-kin and Riona-kin and Bytemite-kin all right without us adding to it.



Yuppers. My input really is not needed for the gene pool to carry on.

Quote:


A person makes a choice, well in some cases they may change their minds, but when they make a choice, whatever reasons they have, that's their choice.



Thanks for that. And that's exactly it. We didn't have kids; instead, we pour our energy and love into our pets. None of our dogs or cats has ever snuck out at 3am, crashed the car, knocked up the neighbor's pets, or come home pregnant. Hey, maybe we really ARE parent material, because we seem to be doing something right!

[And yes, that last bit is pure snark; I realize that raising a dog or cat and raising kids is nothing even remotely close to the same.]

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 4:11 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


LOVED it, Mike. Same goes for us. But I'll bet that, no more than we do you dress up your dogs carry them around in a purse or (I actually saw this on Dog Whisperer) die the damned dog PINK!

There's a difference between dogs and kids--many, obviously, but some of the things I've seen people do when they make their pets their "kids" boggle my mind. I mean, moderation in all things, for gawd's sake!

Took my guys to the demonstration today. They were good as gold; who'd-a thunk it? Of course Choey was so kind as to take them to the dog park for an hour and a half while I was at my morning meetings, so they'd had their requisite exercise already, but I was still surprised at how good they were. Maybe it was partly that they had their "paws full" being petted and kissed and given treats almost the whole time... My dogs have always gotten a lot of attention; they've always ended up catching people's attention, even tho' at least two of them were ugly as SIN as pups, so I had no idea they'd be show stoppers. But these two, well, we have cars pull up alongside, people walk up to the car in parking lots--at United day before yesterday my favorite checker giggled and pointed--there were two checkers out front taking PICTURES of the dogs hanging out of the car window! People are strange sometimes...

It was just nice to have them; I rarely take them anywhere because it's been too hot, but we had a frost warning last night and it's been overcast, and now RAINING (be still my heart!). We had fun, "around" our work if you will.

Dogs is guuuud.


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Saturday, November 5, 2011 5:33 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, maybe we really ARE parent material, because we seem to be doing something right!

I think good pet owners tend to make good parents. It is about how you treat those less powerful than yourself.

But I respect your choice. I wanted to be a nun myself, about a week before I met my husband. :P

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Saturday, November 5, 2011 6:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, I don't really dress my dog up, but she does have a couple favorite sweaters, and when it's cold out, she'll keep one on all day long. It seems to help with her skittishness a bit as well, kind of like the new ThunderShirts they're making for anxious dogs now.

I do try to change her collars out for seasons and holidays, though. :)


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Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Do you have a small or short-haired dog? I somehow can't imagine you even putting a sweater on a dog unless there's a good reason for it. Besides, that's not anthropomorphizing your dog. You know what I'm talking about.

Sitting at one of the meetings yesterday morning, it was early and overcast and we'd had a frost advisory the night before, so COLD. One woman had a chihuahua-type cutie, complete with his little "carrying case". Poor thing shivered the whole time and kept trying to climb into her lap. Felt bad for him, wanted to grab him and hold him and put my sweater around him...she did, a bit, and of course smiled and said "shivering is a way they regulate their body temperature". Right, that doesn't make it FUN! So see, I'm as much a woos as any dyed-pink dog owner, in my own way.



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Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

In my years of owning a chihuahua, I can say that the dogs shiver all the time even at temperatures humans consider comfortable. They also enjoy burrowing under things, like blankets. Be careful where you sit if a blanket is on your couch or bed. There may be an undetectable dog under there!

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, November 6, 2011 6:58 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, they do come from Mexico, so they're adapted to that environment. And it doesn't help that the whole size = higher heart rate to maintain body temperature thing that afflicts mice and hummingbirds is also an issue. On top of that, they lose significant amounts of heat out of their ears - good for cooling in the Mexican climate, but not so good in temperate climates.

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Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Do you have a small or short-haired dog? I somehow can't imagine you even putting a sweater on a dog unless there's a good reason for it.





Nope, neither small, nor short-haired. Belgian Malinois - medium-sized shepherd dog, about 42 pounds.

Two reasons I can think of as to why she likes her sweaters. Well, three, really.

1) It's Texas. She don't know from cold for the most part, so anything below 60º feels "cold" to her.

2) It's about security as much as temperature. She was dumped. Abandoned and abused as a tiny pup. Utterly distrustful of any and all humans when found, and still retains a good bit of that.

3) When I found her and her sister, it was freezing - literally - sleeting, ice and rain, and they were hiding out in a woodpile they had burrowed under, crouched in a mud puddle.

So I think there's something psychological, AND something that's memory triggered, and when it starts getting cold, she starts getting both cold from the memories and shivering from the anxiety it causes.

And she gets visibly happy when I show her the sweater, so I'm happy enough to let it be her security blanket, as it were. She really only likes it when the temps drop, though - she doesn't show any enthusiasm if I show her the sweater on a warm day, for instance, so it's not just a Pavlovian stimulus-response thing. Or at least it's not quite as simple as "sweater=good"; maybe "sweater-plus-cold=good." She definitely seems to contextualize things, I've noticed. She learned "Roll over" outside, in the grass, in one try. She'll roll herself all the way over, as long as she's in the grass. On carpet or tile, no way. She'll go over on one side, and no further. On concrete, she won't even do that - she'll just lay the side of her face on the concrete and jump back up, ready for a treat for doing her trick.




"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


She sounds like she has a sweetie inside.

My dog was, I swear, THE animal model for ADHD. She learned 'sit' quite easily, one try. What she never got was that she was supposed to KEEP sitting. After a second or two - literally - she'd jump up wagging her tail looking for all the world like - OK, I sat! NOW what do you want me to do? And be very happy to sit, again. She'd happily sit for as many times as you were willing to say the word.

I picked her up out of a parking lot to to keep her from wandering onto a nearby freeway. Or rather, she picked me up. I was sitting on a bench and she sat down in front of me, put her head in my lap, looked up at me and sighed a big deep sigh, then closed her eyes. Like she was saying - it's OK now, I'm home. I can relax. So, I went from being a non-dog owner to a dog owner. She had food issues definitely, hated the hose to be on until she figured out she could play with the water, loved beer, and some other peculiarities from her past.

Overall, she was a great dog. RIP Mooch.

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Monday, November 7, 2011 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oooo, what a beauty! I like Malinois, I've only met a few (it's amazing the variety of breeds/cross breeds we meet on trails and at the dog parks around here!), and they've been lovely dogs, SMART and sweet-tempered. And beautiful.

I'll buy her reasons for a sweater; we've had strays, especially cats, and they have their own peculiarities. Not surprising.

Damn, I read all the way through your post, thinking "what a neat dog, she must really love her"...then got to the end. Bummer. They never live nearly long enough, do they?

Ooops, I hear Jim just got home from his morning run, and I hear him "howl-singing" with Kochak, so I'd best go "play" with them. Part of our routine...are dogs aren't spoiled or anything....naahhhh



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