REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

HR 822 (again)

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Monday, November 21, 2011 18:30
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Monday, November 21, 2011 10:24 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Feh, where I go, the popgun goes - if it's on your person, it's wherever you are.

But consider this: you do not have a spare tire, fire extinguisher, smoke alarm cause you intend to need them, but rather that in NOT having one when you DO need one can be disastrous, yes ?



Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 11:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.


Also a damn nice thing to have, provided no one takes it from you, deletes the footage and smashes it...

That being sort of an inherent problem, yanno.

But I think a better solution to that instead of threat of force up against folk who outgun you cause the State provides their hardware, is something like a GPS type network for camera transmission - if they can't REACH the footage, they cannot destroy it, yes ?

-F

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Monday, November 21, 2011 1:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I'm a gun owner, and a sometimes carrier, but I rarely take them on road trips with me. Last time I did was in 2000, when I took a 3-week road trip from Austin to Moab and points in between. Three weeks on the road, alone, no cell phone or other communications, and not a single night spent indoors. I had a 9mm handgun, a couple magazines of ammo, and a handful of knives, all strategically placed around the car, just in case.

I tend to keep knives, clubs, and such in the cars anyway, but not guns for the most part.




Sounds like you have bought into the Great Fear. Did you have anything of value on you? I mean, apart from the gun?
I do always try and carry a decent wine opener... *raises pinky*

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





Just the car, my mountain bike, car stereo, camping gear, and some rather pricey tools - of which the gun is just another. Do you have a Great Fear of guns? They're just objects; they don't mean what you think.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I've been attacked for less. I'm glad you haven't, Pizmo, and have no Great Fear.




Very sorry to hear that Anthony. I imagine it's very hard to lose that feeling once it happens. I'm also sorry to say that any sense of fear of what greater danger might happen has only started to creep into my consciousness since I started reading and posting here. I have always stayed away from bad areas and been very watchful, and with the exception of my brother who was held up outside of an adult club in a bad part of town, I have never had or known of a bad experience. There's always the possibility that I'm being completely dense too.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





Ah - thanks for the elucidation. That actually explains a lot. I've been shot at, I've been nearby when others were shot at, I've lived in bad areas - seriously, there were parts of my old 'hood where the question wasn't whether you had a gun or not, but whether you had ENOUGH gun. There were places I would not go after dark, and wouldn't go unarmed even in broad daylight. There were places where I was pulled over by police and asked, worriedly, "Are you all right? Do you need an officer to escort you home?" They were quite shocked when I explained that I actually lived there, and showed my license to prove it.

You get jaded to it. We called random shots fired "Eastside hummingbirds." You unconsciously counted of the shots when you'd hear someone firing, to see if they were using a wheelgun or a semi-auto, "just in case." And after a while, you didn't even bother to duck unless the shots were coming from your immediate vicinity...

And when I say "bad area", I'm serious. There was a stretch one summer when we had a murder a week on my block. One guy, I shit you not, was shot in the head on the sidewalk two houses down in broad daylight, killed and robbed. Wanna know what his life was worth to the perp? A fucking TIMEX digital watch. Not even a goddam Seiko, much less a frigging Rolex; a Timex.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:14 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.


Also a damn nice thing to have, provided no one takes it from you, deletes the footage and smashes it...

That being sort of an inherent problem, yanno.

But I think a better solution to that instead of threat of force up against folk who outgun you cause the State provides their hardware, is something like a GPS type network for camera transmission - if they can't REACH the footage, they cannot destroy it, yes ?

-F



The only way someone gets my camera is if they have a gun, and then it's just a thing, it's just film, take it.

GPS? I'm not familiar with that other than for tracking. I never understood why anyone would want that on their pictures, seems like a gimmick. If you mean getting it uploaded as soon as it's shot then yeah, that would be great, but servers get hacked all the time.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I have to say, I'm not sure why this law is necessary. Utah has extreme and ridiculously strict laws about the transport of fireworks and alcohol and guns into the state (Mormons) even though gun control IN the state is pretty lax. But that's never stopped people from smuggling them in from Colorado. And while the cops will border camp looking for smugglers, it really isn't that well enforced.




Funny you should bring that up, Byte - on that Moab trip, I did get pulled over by a state trooper (going 98mph tends to get their attention; who knew? ), and he questioned me for a bit, I told him about the weaponry in the car, told him where everything was, and that he was free to search the car, and he let me go with nothing more than a verbal warning - not even a ticket for speeding! Turns out his wife was from Manchaca, just down the road from Austin. He tested me a bit, said she was from "some little town south of Austin", and I started rattling off town names - Buda, Kyle, etc. When I said "Man-chack" (that's how they pronounce it here, which is of course totally wrong, but it's how they do it...), he said, "Yup, that's it - and I can tell you're really from there, 'cause you know how they say it!"

And that was pretty much it - he didn't search the car, said he'd "cleared" me just by talking to me and knew I wasn't smuggling or hiding anything, and sent me on my way after asking me to keep it under 80 if I could. I have to say, I got a pretty good impression from my visit to your state!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.


Also a damn nice thing to have, provided no one takes it from you, deletes the footage and smashes it...

That being sort of an inherent problem, yanno.

But I think a better solution to that instead of threat of force up against folk who outgun you cause the State provides their hardware, is something like a GPS type network for camera transmission - if they can't REACH the footage, they cannot destroy it, yes ?

-F




I've been meaning to ask you about such a thing, Frem, because while I'm sure they exist, I've no idea how pricey such a setup might be, or where one would get such a thing, but it would be ideal for anyone wanting to really get a good view of what goes on in the Occupy and police confrontations.

I'm thinking something like a helmet-cam feeding through a live uplink - satellite or 4g or the like - and being recorded onto a DVR off-site in a secure location. They can beat you, take the memory card, smash the camera, and still not get the footage. Every Occupy group should have at least one, if it can be done on the cheap.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Feh, where I go, the popgun goes - if it's on your person, it's wherever you are.

But consider this: you do not have a spare tire, fire extinguisher, smoke alarm cause you intend to need them, but rather that in NOT having one when you DO need one can be disastrous, yes ?



Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





Agreed - and in many cases, the camera really is the better weapon. Nobody with a gun was going to help the students being pepper-sprayed at UC Davis, but a camera has the whole world watching and speaking out.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:28 PM

BYTEMITE


The mormons really aren't actually so bad. It's only on a few things that they try to push their morality on people, and even that is kind of mitigated by prevalent attitudes around the state. People both look after each other and give people space to go about their business.

The one thing that I don't like is the church and corporations and politics and how that all interweaves.

But it's interesting, a lot of people who like Texas are comfortable in Utah (my neighbors moved from Texas), and then a lot of Utahans for some reason also end up in Alaska.

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:40 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I'm a gun owner, and a sometimes carrier, but I rarely take them on road trips with me. Last time I did was in 2000, when I took a 3-week road trip from Austin to Moab and points in between. Three weeks on the road, alone, no cell phone or other communications, and not a single night spent indoors. I had a 9mm handgun, a couple magazines of ammo, and a handful of knives, all strategically placed around the car, just in case.

I tend to keep knives, clubs, and such in the cars anyway, but not guns for the most part.




Sounds like you have bought into the Great Fear. Did you have anything of value on you? I mean, apart from the gun?
I do always try and carry a decent wine opener... *raises pinky*

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





Just the car, my mountain bike, car stereo, camping gear, and some rather pricey tools - of which the gun is just another. Do you have a Great Fear of guns? They're just objects; they don't mean what you think.




Not sure how you would know what I think they mean - maybe my fault.

Fear of guns? No - I really don't want to have the power to accidentally kill someone. I don't get any juice from that. Most of the gun people I grew up around were assholes, it would feel wrong for me to embrace such a big part of their culture.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:47 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Nice OIS quote Quicko.

Yeah, when church and politics and corporations get too entangled things just get reallllllly weird.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:51 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Heh - that's exactly how I feel about a camera.


Also a damn nice thing to have, provided no one takes it from you, deletes the footage and smashes it...

That being sort of an inherent problem, yanno.

But I think a better solution to that instead of threat of force up against folk who outgun you cause the State provides their hardware, is something like a GPS type network for camera transmission - if they can't REACH the footage, they cannot destroy it, yes ?

-F




I've been meaning to ask you about such a thing, Frem, because while I'm sure they exist, I've no idea how pricey such a setup might be, or where one would get such a thing, but it would be ideal for anyone wanting to really get a good view of what goes on in the Occupy and police confrontations.

I'm thinking something like a helmet-cam feeding through a live uplink - satellite or 4g or the like - and being recorded onto a DVR off-site in a secure location. They can beat you, take the memory card, smash the camera, and still not get the footage. Every Occupy group should have at least one, if it can be done on the cheap.




It's not the same as you're looking for but live feeds can be even more powerful than taped - and it doesn't take much.

http://www.livestream.com/guide/search?search_tag=occupy

http://www.livestream.com/occupynyc

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 2:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I'm a gun owner, and a sometimes carrier, but I rarely take them on road trips with me. Last time I did was in 2000, when I took a 3-week road trip from Austin to Moab and points in between. Three weeks on the road, alone, no cell phone or other communications, and not a single night spent indoors. I had a 9mm handgun, a couple magazines of ammo, and a handful of knives, all strategically placed around the car, just in case.

I tend to keep knives, clubs, and such in the cars anyway, but not guns for the most part.




Sounds like you have bought into the Great Fear. Did you have anything of value on you? I mean, apart from the gun?
I do always try and carry a decent wine opener... *raises pinky*

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com





Just the car, my mountain bike, car stereo, camping gear, and some rather pricey tools - of which the gun is just another. Do you have a Great Fear of guns? They're just objects; they don't mean what you think.




Not sure how you would know what I think they mean - maybe my fault.


Sorry - not an accusation. Just an oblique reference to some obscure long-canceled TV show.

Quote:


Fear of guns? No - I really don't want to have the power to accidentally kill someone. I don't get any juice from that.



I take it you don't drive a vehicle either?

Quote:

Most of the gun people I grew up around were assholes, it would feel wrong for me to embrace such a big part of their culture.


Yeah, most of the ones I know are assholes, too, but I still enjoy target shooting anyway. Sometimes it's worth it just to see the look on their faces when you outshoot them while wearing your favorite Obama or Che t-shirt. :D


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 5:20 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry - not an accusation. Just an oblique reference to some obscure long-canceled TV show.




Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I take it you don't drive a vehicle either?



Just a monster truck with spikes.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Yeah, most of the ones I know are assholes, too, but I still enjoy target shooting anyway. Sometimes it's worth it just to see the look on their faces when you outshoot them while wearing your favorite Obama or Che t-shirt. :D



Call of Duty, Left 4 Dead... you know I keep getting killed in CoD because I keep stopping to see if I just walked over a new gun - seriously, I love the guns in that game.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 6:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Quicko, you don't seriously have a Che T-shirt do you? I think you say that just to bug Raptor.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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