REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Why I'm not voting for Obama

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, May 28, 2012 07:06
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Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The people who voted for Obama four years ago didn't believed that "business" would solve our problems. Four years ago they had the hope the government COULD do something effective. Now they believe that government CAN'T. The paradigm of a government "of, by and for the people" has been killed. And Obama killed it. People who care about the nation are so demoralized by Obama that they will Occupy, but they no longer involve themselves in politics. An important avenue of change has been abandoned. That is the Obama legacy.

------------------------------


I read a Rasmussen poll recently which had some interesting results. First, an explanation and a disclaimer: Rasmussen is a right-winger, and his polls tend to reflect that. OTOH, his polls are the only ones which focus on likely voters, as opposed to general opinion polls, and this is a result of one of those polls:

Quote:

There is a strong belief that Democrats are the party of big government and the Republicans the party of big business. Seven-out-of-10 believe big government and big business work together against the rest of us. So it's no surprise that 53% believe that neither Republican nor Democratic leaders have an understanding of what the country needs today.

www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentar
y_by_scott_rasmussen/lugar_loss_highlights_sour_relationship_between_voters_and_politicians


Obama was elected in a historic moment*. I'm not sure that, even today, people understand HOW historic that moment is. Like anything very large, it can sometimes be seen best from a distance. But that moment was the moment when the financial system of the developed world came crashing down, like the house of cards that it was. That moment rivaled the Great Depression.

So Obama was elected on the promise that he would do something new. Hope and change, remember?

And what Obama chose was "politics as usual". At a time when people were hurting desperately, he found trillions for bank bailouts but nothing for average homeowners. He appointed Timmy Geithner to "reassure" the banks, leaving Main Street to twist in the wind. He abandoned single-payer and even the public option to make private insurers "part of the solution" (as if they hadn't caused the problem in the first place). He "surged" our troops into Afghanistan while signing "indefinite detention" into law. Guantanamo, last I checked, was still in business. Even our recovery- such as it is- wasn't due to Obama's policies; it was due to The Fed instituting programs of "quantitative easing" (QE) to put more money into circulation. We can thank Ben Bernanke for whatever progress Main Street has made, not Obama.

There is only ONE program that I would credit Obama with, and that is extended unemployment, which saved a lot of people's asses. There is only ONE action that Obama took of long-term benefit to the nation, and that is appointing a Supreme Court judge.

Now, some of you will say that Obama was the victim of a Republican campaign to block everything he might do. True enough.

But if you are being stonewalled - as he was- you don't keep backing down on every single item in order to make no progress at all. You decide early on which actions you really, really need to implement... like long-term unemployment... and you sacrifice a lot of political capital on it. The others, you stick to your message, because if you don't you will not only have achieved nothing, you will have lost the narrative.

The people who voted for Obama four years ago didn't believed that "business" would solve our problems. Four years ago they had the hope the government COULD do something effective. Now they believe that government CAN'T. The paradigm of a government "of, by and for the people" has been killed. And Obama killed it. People who care about the nation are so demoralized by Obama that they will Occupy, but they no longer involve themselves in politics. An important avenue of change has been abandoned. That is the Obama legacy.

So waiting for a President... who BTW is actively courting money from Wall Street ... to do the right thing clearly isn't going to work. And being satisfied with nibbles off the edges and crumbs off the table also isn't going to work when we have so many important problems that demand REAL solutions.

If Romney wins, it couldn't come at a better time. The EU- thanks to its intransigent banks which insist on wringing every last euro out of the economy (unlike our Fed) is crashing, and it will drag our economy down with it. Let Romney get stuck with cleaning up the mess. WE need to be clear about what needs to be done.

*That moment was the culmination of a lot of events and bad decisions: the decision to reduce taxes on the wealthy, starting with Kennedy. The formation of the EU, and the rescission of the Glass-Steagall Act in order to make the US banks "more competitive" with the more loosely-regulated EU banks. Jumping with both feet into "free trade" agreements. Unfunded wars of choice.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:27 AM

WHOZIT


So...um...does this mean you're not going to vote this year, or are you going to join us on the "Dark Side"?

Join us, and together we will rule the world...and tie dogs to the roofs of our cars.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:34 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't think we are approaching an election cycle where many people will be voting FOR anyone.

I only hear of people choosing to vote AGAINST candidates.

That's what we've become. You're right that people no longer believe, no longer have hope.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


NIKI - There is only one reason for vote for Obama, and that is to keep the selection of another Supreme Court judge out of Romney's hands. Personally, I don't care. The things that need to be done so outweigh the Supreme Court that if we actually DO get to start righting the wrongs, the Supreme Court won't be able to stand in the way.
-----------------

WHOZIT-
Who is the "dark side"? Ron Paul? Not on the ticket come election time. No, I intend to vote for the Green Party. I figure it I'm going to "waste my vote" by sitting out, I may as well "waste my vote" affirmatively.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 5:57 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
NIKI - There is only one reason for vote for Obama, and that is to keep the selection of another Supreme Court judge out of Romney's hands. Personally, I don't care. The things that need to be done so outweigh the Supreme Court that if we actually DO get to start righting the wrongs, the Supreme Court won't be able to stand in the way.
-----------------

WHOZIT-
Who is the "dark side"? Ron Paul? Not on the ticket come election time. No, I intend to vote for the Green Party. I figure it I'm going to "waste my vote" by sitting out, I may as well "waste my vote" affirmatively.



In my hummble opinion as long as you vote for a REAL party on the ballot you are not wasting your vote, if you write in some name not even running (example Bugs Bunny) as a joke, THAT'S a wasted vote. Somtimes a 3rd party canidate wins (examples Benie Sanders and Joe Liberman) so a "Green Party" vote is not a wasted vote.

BUT! If you vote for Mitt and join us on the "Dark Side" I'll let you play with my double sided Light Saber.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I'll let you play with my double sided Light Saber.


Hello,

I feel there is a tasteless joke here about going both ways.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

BUT! If you vote for Mitt and join us on the "Dark Side" I'll let you play with my double sided Light Saber.
And this is an inducement... how? It sounds kinda icky, yanno? And it just adds to Romney's general ickiness, so I think I'll pass.


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Sunday, May 20, 2012 2:49 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


I'm going to give O. another chance even though it feels like pounding sand. Of all the things to be disapponted in and ebarrassed by as an American, I think The Rep Party, Mitch M., Boehner & Co., and Christian politics are by far the worst of many bad things, and need to be voted against.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


PZIMO, I guess I'm waiting for a more robust defense of Obama. Comparing him to the Tea Party and the GOP is setting the bar irremediably low, IMHO.

The way I see it, we have real problems that need solutions: the bank's control over our currency and therefore our economy (Did you know that the British currency in circulation TRIPLED from 2000 to 2008, thanks to banks' improvident loans?) The wealth gap. The loss of jobs. Global warming. Species loss. Radiological contamination. Loss of civil rights.

Now, if you think ANY of these are real and important problems, then show me how Obama has created any solutions.

If we don't get ahead of the banks' control, of our currency, of wildly unequal wealth distribution, of (so-called) free trade, then our lives will only get worse and the people reaching for solutions will only become more desperate (And they will discount Obama and his approach as any sort of solution at all; and quite rightly so.)


We are on a slippery slope...a REAL slippery slope. One where the forces which create a problem create more of the same forces which create more of that problem. (Global warming leads to thermal runway; money concentration leads to more money concentration etc. In electronic terms it's called "positive feedback" and it is a real-world phenomenon. Look it up.) We need to get together as a people and start making real, conscious decisions about where we're going and what we're going to in the future to address these problems, not sitting back and hoping that these problems will "somehow" solve themselves, because they're not going to.

If you care enough to vote "against" Romney, then care enough to immerse yourself in at least one other activity to push us all in the direction we need to go- whether that activity is political reform, or environmental protection, or women's rights, or bank regulation- because it will take ALL of us rowing pretty hard in the (more or less) same direction to turn this particular ship around.

Then, after you have spent an entire professional and personal life beating your head against a brick wall (as I have) you'll see that most of the people at the top are your enemies not your friends, and that all they're interested in doing is staying in power and lining their pockets.

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

all they're interested in doing is staying in power and lining their pockets.


Hello,

I have noticed that political groups (or indeed almost any group, even charities) tend to operate like animals. They quickly place their ideals on a back-burner and move things like survival and reproduction to the front.

And then you can no longer count on them to serve those ideals.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


... and why I *am* voting for Obama:







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


TONY
Quote:

Hello, I have noticed that political groups (or indeed almost any group, even charities) tend to operate like animals. They quickly place their ideals on a back-burner and move things like survival and reproduction to the front. And then you can no longer count on them to serve those ideals.--Anthony
Wow. That's a profound statement, one which my hubby has been telling me for a long time. I find it amazing that you and he- from very different backgrounds and political views- would reach the same conclusion.

The only thing I could add to that is... Then, since groups tend to act like animals (hubby says "termites") we should be very very careful about group formation and the formation of group identities. Also, we should be able to pull the plug on dysfunctional groups.

KWICKO
If you are acting only in opposition to a person, then that person controls you just as surely as if he had been pulling your strings.

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 10:39 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
PZIMO, I guess I'm waiting for a more robust defense of Obama.


Well, I don't know how "robust" you will find this, but I initially voted for Obama because I am on a long academic track, and he pledged that students would have his support. He quietly passed laws to give student tax credits and separate student loans from the bank system, and has been fighting against raising interest on the unsubsidized loans. I, as a student, have benefited from Obama's term thus far, and so I will vote for him again.
None of this is to say that he hasn't screwed up at all. He has made some bad decisions, and some decisions I don't agree with. Also, there were other policies he had that contributed to my voting for him four years ago, and those have not had the same progress as the student loans and education policies, which is a shame. However, I'm still looking at another eight years of school, so those policies are very important to me. I would probably be in the boat of voting against Romney because I think he's scum, but there is a solid reason that I am voting for President Obama. Those who aren't students probably won't give a shit, but my educational track is the most important thing in my life right now.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If you can point to something significant that Obama has done for you, then by all means vote for him. AT least you're voting your interests and not some silly campaign event.

I have a personal beef with Obama which involves health care. Our daughter was born with a brain bleed, thanks to medical staff trying to save money and NOT performing a Cesarian. She now has a "pre-existing condition" which prevents her from even buying health insurance in the future. In three years, she runs out of our coverage. The only way she can get medical care is through Medicaid (Medi-Cal in our state). That means she can not have ever have more than $2000 in assets to her name. So, while we are more than prepared to provide for her future, and while she is competent enough to understand when someone is trying to take her money, we have to force her into poverty just so she can qualify for the damned insurance... which we would be happy to buy, but the private insurers won't sell to her.

So, yeah, I've got a specific ax to grind about Obama, because I've been watching the clusterfuck he created of our healthcare. Speaking of not coming up with real solutions.

And my hubby is pissed off at Obama because he ripped up the Constitution and used it as toilet paper.






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Monday, May 21, 2012 7:37 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

And my hubby is pissed off at Obama because he ripped up the Constitution and used it as toilet paper.


Hello,

Then he and I agree on this point as well.

There was even a warning before he took office, when he voted on the illegal wiretapping. I fooled myself into believing it might be an isolated moment of weakness. It was not. It was the beginning of a trend.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Monday, May 21, 2012 10:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


TONY- you and hubby seem to have very similar views. Maybe I can get him to post here directly.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 12:12 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


You guys expect perfection, and you lay too much on the shoulders of one man, one man who has to fight so many. I agree if you think he's not strong enough to come through on his promises, but the other options are complete contrition to the Republican/Limbaugh view point. You are shaking their hands and saying "well played" while they laugh at you. Blind obstructionism can't win, not so easily, that's not part of a precedent I want to be any part of.


Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, May 21, 2012 2:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


PIZMO, there are a number of policy calls where Obama has faced intransigent and (in my view) unjustified opposition. Maybe he could have handled opposition better, maybe not. But who twisted his arm into pushing for (yet more) free trade agreements? Who MADE him "surge" more troops into Afghanistan and get involved in Libya? Two years ago, Obama spoke about indefinite preventive detention. I HEARD HIM. He just signed it into law two months ago.

What Obama does when no one is looking counts. He does just enough to pacify his base, but not so much to piss off Wall Street and the military. That's not enough to solve the problems that need to get solved.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 2:50 PM

DREAMTROVE


Sig,

well said. The GOP has been dogged by right wing third parties since the early 90s, and has found that this *can* cause them to lose, which is why the tea party succeeded, because the republicans were afraid to not let it into the party for fear that it succeed without them.

What the liberal left needs in order for Occupy to succeed is to stop being afraid of a democrat losing an election. If the democrats lived in fear for their lives that leftist splinter groups would cause them to lose elections, they would start listening again.

Sadly, recent elections have taught them that if the democrats are ever in danger of losing a state, parties like the greens will step out of their way and try to make sure a democrat wins, and as long as that is true, the democratic party never has to listen to what they have to say.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 3:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The people who voted for Obama four years ago didn't believed that "business" would solve our problems. Four years ago they had the hope the government COULD do something effective. Now they believe that government CAN'T. The paradigm of a government "of, by and for the people" has been killed. And Obama killed it. People who care about the nation are so demoralized by Obama that they will Occupy, but they no longer involve themselves in politics. An important avenue of change has been abandoned. That is the Obama legacy.



Also, everything else you said in this post...

My ONLY disagreement with anything you said was his contribution to the Supreme Court. She's definitely much more qualified for her current position than Obama is for his, given her extensive record, but at the same time I feel that she's far to wrapped up in "agendas" to be fit to give true non-political and unbiased votes based off of the constitution.

She's certainly not the first, nor will she be the last appointed Justice that fills that role....


Above and beyond that, I hear where you're coming from, and I feel for you. This may be the closest that we've ever been on any issue before. I hate the idea of Romney being president in 2013 as much as I hated the idea of McCain being president in 2009. I didn't vote in 2008 though, as much as I KNEW voting an Illinois politician with zero credentials was a bad idea, because I really believed in the back of my mind that we needed a lot of change.

I feel that we've come to the EXACT same crossroads today, and if you pull away all the layers of BS, the EXACT same mistake is just about to repeat itself.

I think you might see what I do Signy.....

Has the Actual Pendulum stopped swinging entirely?

It seems to me that both "sides" speak a good deal One way or the Other while campaigning, and even while in office, but in the end it's really starting to look like there's just one singular Rabbit Hole they're thrusting all of us down into in the end.


My view is that the next 4 years have already been lost if Romney is the Rethug of choice, and Obama will run again.

When are people going to wake up and make the challenging nominee in the elections somebody that their Party in general doesn't support?

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Monday, May 21, 2012 3:31 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
PIZMO, there are a number of policy calls where Obama has faced intransigent and (in my view) unjustified opposition. Maybe he could have handled opposition better, maybe not. But who twisted his arm into pushing for (yet more) free trade agreements? Who MADE him "surge" more troops into Afghanistan and get involved in Libya? Two years ago, Obama spoke about indefinite preventive detention. I HEARD HIM. He just signed it into law two months ago.

What Obama does when no one is looking counts. He does just enough to pacify his base, but not so much to piss off Wall Street and the military. That's not enough to solve the problems that need to get solved.


Deals? Fear of being an irrelevant President? Do you really know what the backroom dealings were? The system is not in favor of a single person making the kinds of changes you want. I know on a very simple level I have made the same kind of assumptions about things only to find myself later in that very position, And I was Wrong. Totally. Missed it by a mile. So I'm just not going to presume. And you simply cannot feel good about Romney, or no vote, or Paul.
Besides - I'm sorry to say that it is unlkely that any of these options will get you what you deserve for your family.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
PIZMO, there are a number of policy calls where Obama has faced intransigent and (in my view) unjustified opposition. Maybe he could have handled opposition better, maybe not. But who twisted his arm into pushing for (yet more) free trade agreements? Who MADE him "surge" more troops into Afghanistan and get involved in Libya? Two years ago, Obama spoke about indefinite preventive detention. I HEARD HIM. He just signed it into law two months ago.

What Obama does when no one is looking counts. He does just enough to pacify his base, but not so much to piss off Wall Street and the military. That's not enough to solve the problems that need to get solved.


Deals? Fear of being an irrelevant President? Do you really know what the backroom dealings were? The system is not in favor of a single person making the kinds of changes you want. I know on a very simple level I have made the same kind of assumptions about things only to find myself later in that very position, And I was Wrong. Totally. Missed it by a mile. So I'm just not going to presume. And you simply cannot feel good about Romney, or no vote, or Paul.
Besides - I'm sorry to say that it is unlkely that any of these options will get you what you deserve for your family.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com




That wasn't Signy's point at all Pizmo...

After years of bashing the "Rethugs" together, that's how little you think of Signy after this post?

Talk about Wolf eat wolf....

Just throw her under the bus for speaking her honest opinion now????

The point is, unfortunately, that there IS NO ANSWER TO THE PUZZLE!!!!!

Though I feel a bit of justification that I actually feel not at all good about with Her post here, I feel no rapture in Signy making a post like this, although I'm quite confident the regular Rethugs around here are jerking each other off in a frenzy about it....


As Signy said, what Obama does when no one is watching counts. My own step-dad, my Kenpo Sensei said that you can always judge a character of a man by what he does when he "knows" nobody is watching....

On the face, Obama is a happy shinny people holding hands....

In real life, at best, he's just GWB2.

I won't even go into how I think he's much worse than that in this post....



I'm sorry for your "loss" Signy....

truly....

But now that you've swallowed the pill, maybe we can fight together..... ?????


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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:00 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Signe and Whozit have convinced me not to just write in a name in the Nov. election, which was my plan, writing in Firefly charactors and my pretends charactors is what I do sometimes if I don't know who to choose, but they make a good point about how if I choose someone actually on the ballot as a third party candidate I'm sending more of a message, even if I don't actually _want that particular candidate to be chosen, at least it shows that we're tired of the status quo.

Signe I'm sending you a PM, I send them to you occasionally and you never answer back. That's up to you, but could you at least let me know if your PM function works or not? Because why send them to you if you can't read them anyways? You don't have to respond to them, just let me know if they are getting to you. Thank you.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Signe and Whozit have convinced me not to just write in a name in the Nov. election, which was my plan, writing in Firefly charactors and my pretends charactors is what I do sometimes if I don't know who to choose, but they make a good point about how if I choose someone actually on the ballot as a third party candidate I'm sending more of a message, even if I don't actually _want that particular candidate to be chosen, at least it shows that we're tired of the status quo.



Hehe.... I was all for Mayor McCheese for President in 2008.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RIONA... Oh dear, I'm sorry. I've never gotten any of your messages! I'd better re-set my spam filter... they've just never gotten through.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX, as I see it both you and PIZMO are heading in more-or-less the same direction as I am. Maybe I'm mis-characterizing either or both of your positions but it seems to me that neither of you think that corporations are "the answer". If your enemy is my enemy, then we are fellow-travelers. What divides the two of you is that you dismiss "any" government as being beneficial, while Pizmo thinks "this" government might be helpful. I guess I'm sort of in the middle... I think "a" government can be helpful. Certainly not this current crop of politicians and probably not this kind of government tho.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If you can point to something significant that Obama has done for you, then by all means vote for him. AT least you're voting your interests and not some silly campaign event.


I *AM* voting my interests, I have decided interest in not letting a bunch of fucking armageddon begging religiousity spouting nutcases anywhere near public offices or big red buttons - the situation is bad enough as it is without some infantile temper tantrum over not getting their own way 100% of the time causing them to start WWIII.

-Frem

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If you can point to something significant that Obama has done for you, then by all means vote for him. AT least you're voting your interests and not some silly campaign event.


I *AM* voting my interests, I have decided interest in not letting a bunch of fucking armageddon begging religiousity spouting nutcases anywhere near public offices or big red buttons - the situation is bad enough as it is without some infantile temper tantrum over not getting their own way 100% of the time causing them to start WWIII.

-Frem




My vote here in Texas will likely be a protest vote. Obama doesn't stand a chance in this state. Never did, never will. So I'll likely vote for Gary Johnson or Buddy Roemer, just out of spite. Or I'll write in Al Sharpton.


Of course, that's assuming I'm allowed to vote; such things shouldn't be taken for granted these days.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA




Anyone else find it amusing as hell that the Romney failed to carry the Electors in UTAH?
Meh heh heh.

-F

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX, as I see it both you and PIZMO are heading in more-or-less the same direction as I am. Maybe I'm mis-characterizing either or both of your positions but it seems to me that neither of you think that corporations are "the answer". If your enemy is my enemy, then we are fellow-travelers. What divides the two of you is that you dismiss "any" government as being beneficial, while Pizmo thinks "this" government might be helpful. I guess I'm sort of in the middle... I think "a" government can be helpful. Certainly not this current crop of politicians and probably not this kind of government tho.



I will ALWAYS dismiss any government as being helpful, but that's only because since Reagan, no government has been helpful. As far as CORPS.. when have they EVER been helpful?

I know that statement might be a hard pill for many to swallow, but while people were paying 20% on their mortgage rates in the early 80's Reagan years, I was getting 13% on my CD savings as a kid. (Today, I get 1%)

The Reagan years were undoubtedly tough on a lot of people at the time, as were the Carter years before him, but at least they stood for something. We had nearly 20 years afterward that we could travel for dirt cheap and buy whatever we wanted anywhere for almost nothing.

My parents had a 15% mortgage on their house they bought in 1982. 15%!!!!!!!!!!

The only difference back than was that my old man, even though he was an Army vet, didn't have a Bachelors degree and he could make it work....

If rates ever got up to 15% today, even my union friends underwater on their mortgages would be struggling....

That's because MOST of the taxes we ALL pay today are just paying previous debts off....

And it gets worse every single year....



Not to brag needlessly, or to say anything that Kwicko won't take a split-second in pointing out that I'm bringing up agian....

But THIS IS MY HOUSE

I pay my bills, and I begrudgingly pay my property taxes, for now... while I deem them fair.....

If you want more, Big Government, I welcome you to knock on my door.

If the false flag warning that I have a pit-bull on duty doesn't dissuade you...

I can guaranty that the NRA supporter sticker is legit and that my compact .45 would make the ittity-bitty pieces of your brains sprawled across my lawn try to coelesse and understand just why they didn't heed the warning....

And taking a jump from Byte's thread, I'm the guy you want to have on your side in those matters.

I have nearly NOTHING to lose.

I have no strong religious convictions.

If you're a friend of mine and you're being man-handled by our overbearing government, I've got your back.

Go pick on somebody way smaller than you with no friends Big G.

I'm getting entirely too impatient with watching you pick on good people I know personally.

Government in this country!






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Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I'm not voting for Obama because he's a Marxist dick.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Friday, May 25, 2012 3:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX, ya lost me as a fellow-traveler because you're too confused. You begin with
Quote:

I will ALWAYS dismiss any government as being helpful, but that's only because since Reagan, no government has been helpful. As far as CORPS.. when have they EVER been helpful?
And the rest of your post is one long uninformed gripe about gubmint. Son, if you really think that corps are no help at all, why haven't you been griping about banks and offshoring jobs and invasion of privacy/ digital restrictions management with equal passion? Could it be because you really like corporations?


So, piece by piece, let me show you where you are wrong:

Quote:

I know that statement might be a hard pill for many to swallow, but while people were paying 20% on their mortgage rates in the early 80's Reagan years, I was getting 13% on my CD savings as a kid. (Today, I get 1%)
So back in Reagan's day you were losing 5% on your savings (18% inflation rate minus 13% CD rate) and today you're losing 3% (4% inflation rate minus 1% CD rate). And this helps you... how?

Quote:

The Reagan years were undoubtedly tough on a lot of people at the time, as were the Carter years before him, but at least they stood for something. We had nearly 20 years afterward that we could travel for dirt cheap and buy whatever we wanted anywhere for almost nothing.
That second sentence is a complete non-sequitor to the first. WHAT was that "something" they stood for? Dirt cheap travel and cheap stuff?

Quote:

My parents had a 15% mortgage on their house they bought in 1982. 15%!!!!!!!!!! The only difference back than was that my old man, even though he was an Army vet, didn't have a Bachelors degree and he could make it work.... If rates ever got up to 15% today, even my union friends underwater on their mortgages would be struggling.. That's because MOST of the taxes we ALL pay today are just paying previous debts off....
Bull. That's because MOST of the work suitable for uneducated workers has been OFFSHORED. Once upon a time, when we had the only operating factories in the free world, anyone could get a job sweeping the factory floor and move up to supervisor. But thanks the INTERNATIONAL CAPITAL, if you want THAT kind of job today you have to move to China, where the average factory-floor worker is 19 and the average manager is 22. Say, how do you feel about working for Foxconn?

Quote:

And it gets worse every single year....
Of course. You might have noticed the riots and demonstrations in Tunisia, Egypt, most of Europe, and Canada?

EGYPT

GREECE

LONDON

SPAIN

MONTREAL CANADA

They're all protesting lack of JOBS. And that, my friend, is in the hands of international business.

Quote:

Not to brag needlessly
Then don't
Quote:

or to say anything that Kwicko won't take a split-second in pointing out that I'm bringing up agian.... But THIS IS MY HOUSE.
Yanno what? We own OUR house too, free and clear. And it's worth about $650,000, even in this market. So whatever you think you got going on your favor, rest assured there are those who will best you.

Quote:

I pay my bills, and I begrudgingly pay my property taxes, for now... while I deem them fair.....If you want more, Big Government, I welcome you to knock on my door.
I'm sure they will.


Quote:

And taking a jump from Byte's thread, I'm the guy you want to have on your side in those matters.
Why? You'd be pointing your gun in the wrong direction half the time. An idiot with a gun is still an idiot.

Quote:

I have nearly NOTHING to lose.
Except your house...

Quote:

If you're a friend of mine and you're being man-handled by our overbearing government, I've got your back.
Will you have my back if I'm being improperly foreclosed on? Will you have my back if the terms of my business loan suddenly become unbearable? Will you have my back when my daughter needs medical insurance but can't buy it? Or if my company runs off with my pension? Or ransacks my house looking for copyrighted material?

Quote:

Go pick on somebody way smaller than you with no friends Big G.
A dog, barking at cat. That's all you are.

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Friday, May 25, 2012 3:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Signy,

I have been griping about outsourcing jobs for quite a while. I lost my job because of that.

I haven't been griping about banks though, only because it's the rules and restrictions on banks that made them lend money to people who could never afford it for "EOE" purposes that largely got us all into this mess in the first place.

I can't BELIEVE you don't remember a bulk of my posts were about the Patriot ACT and Real ID that Bush Jr. and Cronies put through and how we'd end up like London with remote helicopters with cameras watching our every move. As far as personal privacy is concerned, I've ALWAYS been the most paranoid about that development.


Actually, I think I posted about where EXACTLY in my past this parinoia came from, and that between the years of 8 and 12, well before the technology we've become accustomed to existed, I believed that I was ALWAYS being recorded....

Thanks Twilight Zone (2), Circa 1986....







Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX, ya lost me as a fellow-traveler because you're too confused. You begin with
Quote:

I will ALWAYS dismiss any government as being helpful, but that's only because since Reagan, no government has been helpful. As far as CORPS.. when have they EVER been helpful?
And the rest of your post is one long uninformed gripe about gubmint. Son, if you really think that corps are no help at all, why haven't you been griping about banks and offshoring jobs and invasion of privacy/ digital restrictions management with equal passion? Could it be because you really like corporations?


So, piece by piece, let me show you where you are wrong:
And this helps you... how?



13% interest would really help me since I still have money in the bank. Right now, I get less than 1% on my money.


Quote:

That second sentence is a complete non-sequitor to the first. WHAT was that "something" they stood for? Dirt cheap travel and cheap stuff?


No... These are just benefits I mentioned for your average American, or at least those of us who would ever bother spending money traveling. You know me Signy, I'm a minimalist. I had nothing to gain from those aspects of a VERY strong US dollar in the World currency.


Quote:

Bull. That's because MOST of the work suitable for uneducated workers has been OFFSHORED. Once upon a time, when we had the only operating factories in the free world, anyone could get a job sweeping the factory floor and move up to supervisor. But thanks the INTERNATIONAL CAPITAL, if you want THAT kind of job today you have to move to China, where the average factory-floor worker is 19 and the average manager is 22. Say, how do you feel about working for Foxconn?


I'll agree with you about the outsourcing. In the 70's we had a lot of out of work dads when jobs went to Mexico, and that was back when usually only dad was working. This very second, the job I used to work, without a college degree, making nearly 55k a year is now being outsourced to somebody making less than 10k a year. At the same time, it costs him under 50 cents for a pack of smokes.....


Quote:

Of course. You might have noticed the riots and demonstrations in Tunisia, Egypt, most of Europe, and Canada?

EGYPT

GREECE

LONDON

SPAIN

MONTREAL CANADA

They're all protesting lack of JOBS. And that, my friend, is in the hands of international business.



How long do you think it will be before that is a reality here? Who makes up a majority of the "Occupy" movement, when you eliminate college stoner beat-offs?

I'm definitely more capable in ANY aspect than 80% of the people state-side, yet I find myself in the 20% of unemployed or under employed now.

Maybe I should change my tactics for finding a job here. Let them know how every month that goes by makes me even more a suitable candidate for T.K. 2.0., sans any argued Frem arguments against his claims that it was a conspiracy.

After all the home improvement and yard work I've done, and the over 6k of purchases put on my Lowes credit card doing the work, they've got the F-ing Nerve to write me back an email saying that I'm not qualified to work there????





Quote:

Yanno what? We own OUR house too, free and clear. And it's worth about $650,000, even in this market. So whatever you think you got going on your favor, rest assured there are those who will best you.


Wow. That's really great Signy. Good thing we had a mild winter. It probably still cost thousands to heat it this winter, huh?



Quote:

I'm sure they will.


And I'll be waiting for them, 10 gallon hat on my head and six-shooter in my hand....

Quote:

Why? You'd be pointing your gun in the wrong direction half the time. An idiot with a gun is still an idiot.


Haha... idiot. I don't care how good you're doing with your husband. I know that you and/or him have higher education and many years below your belt over me. I may not have a 650k plus house, but I can guaranty that I'm the only 32 year old who owns his house free and clear unless their rich parents bought it for them or they are Mark Zuckerburg....

Quote:

Except your house...


I'm not even worried about that, seeing as how government benefits today will make sure that anyone with a 50 IQ can keep their house even in the worst situation. I simply have too much money left to take benefits since I'm a single male with no kids.... At the same time, my credit rating is 795 even though I haven't held a real job for over 2 years, and I have access to over 100k in credit.

Bankruptcy doesn't erase government debt, student loans or hospital bills, which I have none of...

Worst case scenario, if nobody gives me a job......?

I'm good



Quote:

Will you have my back if I'm being improperly foreclosed on? Will you have my back if the terms of my business loan suddenly become unbearable? Will you have my back when my daughter needs medical insurance but can't buy it? Or if my company runs off with my pension? Or ransacks my house looking for copyrighted material?


First, Define "improperly" foreclosed on. If your paying your mortgage on time and you get foreclosed on, I'll definitatly join your fight. If your daughter is over 18, there's nothing I can do for her. I've been without health insurance for the majority of the last 14 years, and I drink and smoke about twice what anyone you know does. Good luck to her.

As far as ransacking your house for copyrighted material though, you've found your guy.... If you were my neighbor and I saw some black ops perusing your computers in the middle of the night with masks I'd shoot first. I'm usually up at 3AM to water my lawn I'm trying to grow. If some black ops thug crawled into my next-door neighbors window, I'd do everything I could to put them down.


Quote:

A dog, barking at cat. That's all you are.


Sigh....

In the end, I'm glad you posted again here.

Of the people I remembered when I used to post, you're one of the few who were around back then.

In the end, our opinions don't matter, though it's cool that we're free to speak them, for now, in this country.

Right or Left.... doesn't matter.....

All of the things I absolutely hated about Bush Jr. were carried through with gusto behind the media drama.....

And I'm sure when Romney is our new President, all the things that I hated about Bush Jr. will speak to me.

The only difference is that since Obama did absolutely nothing in 4 years to repeal some established Executive powers during "war time", Romney will only be able to take those and make them stronger. The least Obama could have done was give the Constitution back to us before another Rethug was in office....

Good luck to you and yours S....

Proud to know you as an argumentative soldier as we all take the ride down the rabbit hole....

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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I haven't been griping about banks though, only because it's the rules and restrictions on banks that made them lend money to people who could never afford it for "EOE" purposes that largely got us all into this mess in the first place.
Complete and utter bullshit. If that were the case, how do you explain the financial meltdown in the EU, which had no such laws???

Oh, yeah, that's right- you don't. I sure wish you would do at least a LITTLE investigation and thinking before you bought the line of crap they're feeding you.

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Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I haven't been griping about banks though, only because it's the rules and restrictions on banks that made them lend money to people who could never afford it for "EOE" purposes that largely got us all into this mess in the first place.
Complete and utter bullshit. If that were the case, how do you explain the financial meltdown in the EU, which had no such laws???

Oh, yeah, that's right- you don't. I sure wish you would do at least a LITTLE investigation and thinking before you bought the line of crap they're feeding you.



Show me proof of that Signy.....

As far as I'm concerned, your post back to me here is full of just as much BS as you assumed my post was....

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Saturday, May 26, 2012 6:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX, I've already have posted many times on the topic, so I'm not sure what information you're lacking. Tell me.

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX, I've already have posted many times on the topic, so I'm not sure what information you're lacking. Tell me.



As I've said before, please show me real figures.....

The way I see it, the EU only solidifies this argument.

In the EU, this isn't a "black" and "mexican" agrument like it is here in the states. There are blacks in the EU and they're just as successful as anyone else there. As far as I know, there aren't any Mexicans that swam that far.

The governments there, however, are doing the exact same thing to EU countries under the "Euro" to allow low income housing developments for Middle Easterners to "integrate" with their populations.

The WORST thing the individual European countries EVER did was agree to the Euro..... It's surely had it's UPS... but now we're going to see its downs..... As unpleasant as it will be for anybody who has money in stocks here in the US, I'd imagine it's much worse for those people who allowed over 1/3rd of the worlds entire currency to be blended together into a US-style Fiat currency.....

Just ask Greece how much they're loving life now????

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX, Greece is the exception to the rule.

First of all, let me make sure I understand what you're saying, because there really is no equivalent of Fanny or Freddie in the EU and therefore not any possible mechanism by which the banks could be "forced" to make loans to unqualified borrowers.

So you seem to be expanding your argument beyond the original idea that the banks were "forced" to make improvident loans, and kind of slide it over to the idea that it was the governments themselves which borrowed money to spend on impoverished people. In other words, a different argument than national governments twisting banks' arms into making bad loans, and more like the argument that the governments were just spending too much money on social programs. Am I correct? Before I provide you with data, I want to make sure that I'm answering your point.

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Without going into specifics Signy....

Fiat Currency, is Fiat Currency....

Fire away

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX, Greece is the exception to the rule.

First of all, let me make sure I understand what you're saying, because there really is no equivalent of Fanny or Freddie in the EU and therefore not any possible mechanism by which the banks could be "forced" to make loans to unqualified borrowers.

So you seem to be expanding your argument beyond the original idea that the banks were "forced" to make improvident loans, and kind of slide it over to the idea that it was the governments themselves which borrowed money to spend on impoverished people. In other words, a different argument than national governments twisting banks' arms into making bad loans, and more like the argument that the governments were just spending too much money on social programs. Am I correct? Before I provide you with data, I want to make sure that I'm answering your point.


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Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, fiat currency is fiat currency, but that wasn't your original point. And BTW, all of the EU nations had "fiat currency" BEFORE the EU, so I fail to see how anything changed... at least, according to your contention.

So now you've made three arguments. Which one am I to address?

(1) The one that claims that the entire world's financial meltdown was caused by the US government forcing banks to make bad loans? I think TONY has already addressed that point rather thoroughly, especially from his view inside a mortgage-writing bank.

(2) The one that claims that it was bad loans/ too much social spending in the EU which led to their downfall?

(3) Or the one that claims it's all about fiat currency?

Because they can't all be true at the same time. So pick one as your argument of choice and admit the others are so much go se. Or tie them all together and tell me which is your essential point.

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well... Signy... aside from one issue, I think you've all but wrapped it up very clear for all of us...

I'm going ENTIRELY with number 1 and that the US Government has been forcing complying banks, world wide, to accept bad loans using it's weight.... (which today, obviously, has been completely desecrated)

As for the idea of my original point, I apologize for any confusion... I speak so far out of the box that my point is rarely ever understood by my best friends since kindergarten until after I explain it to them.


Forgive me for claiming all of those 3 points as true....

The last I checked, you are American, or Canadian, or at the very least European....

Who's paying those debts today?????

Those who shall not be named.....

With our supposed 13 Trillion in debt...it's obviously not us....

Good for you for fighting the good fight Signy....

Just make sure you're on the right team before you draw any blood......

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, fiat currency is fiat currency, but that wasn't your original point. And BTW, all of the EU nations had "fiat currency" BEFORE the EU, so I fail to see how anything changed... at least, according to your contention.

So now you've made three arguments. Which one am I to address?

(1) The one that claims that the entire world's financial meltdown was caused by the US government forcing banks to make bad loans? I think TONY has already addressed that point rather thoroughly, especially from his view inside a mortgage-writing bank.

(2) The one that claims that it was bad loans/ too much social spending in the EU which led to their downfall?

(3) Or the one that claims it's all about fiat currency?

Because they can't all be true at the same time. So pick one as your argument of choice and admit the others are so much go se. Or tie them all together and tell me which is your essential point.




EDITED TO ADD:

BTW... I would like to add that in a country and/or world that was doing "good" there would be no reasons to do any "edited to adds"....

Played, Played, Played.....

Everyone is.....

2 "sides" of the same coin....

The more you struggle, the more you give in....

Good luck to you...

Just know that if things dont change they'll have no problems reprogramming your kids with at-home 3D TV in 3 years from now with Disney guys and gals who will be able to convey the "new norm" to them in 3-D HD in a maner we couldn't even comprehend at that age.



Don't worry, concerned Moms... soon you'll love Justin Beiber too...

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:26 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Show me proof of that Signy.....


I'll field that ball, Jack.

This right here is probably the most concise, accurate, and informative overview one can find.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/bank-of-america-too-crooked-
to-fail-20120314?print=true


That both the banks and the government are lying is kind of a given though, yeah.

-F

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Monday, May 28, 2012 6:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thanks Frem



6IX before I go way back in history and re-find and re-post the information I posted back in 2008 I'm going to give you a quick precise of what I've found:

The bad loans also originated from places like Countrywide - which weren't even banks and not subject to Federal regulations. There is no evidence that "many" - or any- of these banking decisions had anything to do with fair housing regulations. According to TONY, who works in a bank and had a first-hand view of mortgage decisions, this was ALL about squeezing the maximum fantasy-interest rate out of each an every loan, whether it was legal or made sense or not.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that the US banks were able to "force" mortgage-backed bonds, credit default swaps, naked credit default-swaps, and all the other financial instruments onto foreign banks. Foregin banks snapped them up, all on their own. But the actual immediate causes of the collapse of foreign banks were various: In Iceland it was embezzlement and self-dealing, in the UK it was their very own real-estate bubble, and in Spain and Portugal it was German banks investing in fantasy projects like city-centers, stadia, rail lines etc.

None of this would have been possible without the banks' ability- on both sides of "the pond"- to create money out of nothing. The EU banks were under looser regulations (Basel II) and thus had farther to fall.

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Monday, May 28, 2012 7:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




BTW, I thought this was a brilliant proposal about how to end "to big to fail"...A fantasy letter from the FIDC to its insured banks. I found this on Reuter's Counterparties website



Quote:


May 23, 2015

Dear Banker,

Thank you for your cooperation in our most recent series of bank stress tests. We had hoped that these would not be required, but following the credit crises of 2007-08 and the more recent banking crises of 2014, the FDIC simply had no choice. The results of these tests are in, and they are unfortunately much worse than we had hoped for. The recent losses of billions of dollars in trading has made it apparent that nearly every major depository bank is in far worse financial condition than previously believed. The majority of top 20 banks never fully recovered from the earlier crisis, and have insufficient capital to withstand any further pressure. This is especially a concern if the economy takes another turn for the worse, or if Housing begins its third leg down.

Capital reserves are insufficient to support the trillions in deposits of yours that we guarantee. Ever since leveraged speculation has become the primary business of these banks, we have grave concerns about the promises you have made to your depositors.... the Federal Deposit Insurance Capital Reserves have fallen to perilously low levels... We cannot sit idly by while this becomes exhausted due to your speculations, thus putting taxpayers monies at great risk. Nor can we assume unlimited liability in guaranteeing deposits at firms that were once depository banks but now have morphed into giant derivative trading casinos with potential liabilities measured in the trillions of dollars.

Therefore, as chairman of the FDIC, with the full support of my Board of Governors, we have decided upon the following changes:

1. Effectively immediately, we have increased the FDIC deposit insurance for any US bank that engages in ANY trading of derivatives or underwriting securities or other investment banking activities by threefold. This 3X fee increase goes into effect immediately. It applies regardless whether these trades are hedges for proprietary trades or are made on behalf of clients.

2. Effective in 90 days, we are LOWERING the insured maximum insured deposit liability to $100,000 per account for derivative trading firms. Effective in 180 days, the insured maximum insured deposit liability drops to $50,000 per account.

3. Effective in 1 year from today, on May 23, 2016, we will no longer offer deposit insurance for any firm that engages in derivative trading, underwriting securities or engages in Investment banking.

4. Any bank with fewer than 10,000 depositors or less than $5 billion in assets may apply for a discretionary waiver of these rules.

It is not our position to tell you what sort of non depository banking activities you may engage in. Those are business choices you and your firm are free to make. However, it is also our position not to engage in foolish insurance underwriting. We have elected to be more conservative in ourrisk management and assumptions, and therefore cannot guarantee the kinds of risks that your firms have been undertaking.

This action should delight many of you. In the recent speeches of several bank CEOs, many of you have longed for a return to the days of less regulation and a truer free market. Once you no longer qualify for our insurance due to your other businesses, you will be freed up from all of the onerous bank reviews and regulations that are part and parcel of FDIC insurance.

As a bonus, without the intervention of government guarantees, those of you who continue to have depositors will finally be able to compete in a free and open market. Without FDIC insurance, your depositors will be making their decisions based on your reputation, and their assessment of the safety and security of your operations — and not Uncle Sam’s willingness to continually bail you out.

You have the FDIC’s best wishes for success in the future — just not our insurance.

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact my office.
Thomas Hoenig

I laughed out loud when I read it.

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