REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Sandy...beyond the storm

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 18:33
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VIEWED: 1417
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Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:20 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


There's something people haven't considered, I think, in comparing this to Katrina. This WILL be worse than Katrina, by far. Christie said "I think the losses will be almost incalculable" on NBC's TODAY show. I think he may be right. But that also might be just the beginning.

Consider the following:

•The area Sandy has hit worst is very densely populated. VERY. You have to get outside the impacted zone to get supplies, and some of those areas are still getting flooding or will when the tide comes in. How far the "impacted area" stretches can be quite far in some places.

•Some of those areas are STILL being evacuated. Half of Hoboken, N.J. remains flooded, according to the mayor.
Quote:

"We have, probably, about 20,000 people that still remain in their homes, and we're trying to put together an evacuation plan, get the equipment here," Zimmer told MSNBC TV. (Update: 05.40 am EDT The National Guard has arrived in Hoboken, a town of around 50,000 in New Jersey, according to AP. The Guard will be using high-wheeled trucks to transport residents out of the most hard-hit areas as well as ferrying in supplies, AP said. Thank gawd.)

Zimmer said the city's elecric utility vehicles were too big to make it down many of the flooded streets. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49605748/ns/weather/]
The National Guard told her tonight some could arrive tomorrow morning.

•People are without water, despite being surrounded by it. The water is becoming increasingly contaminated as it sits there.

•More than 8.2 million homes and businesses were without electricity, about two-thirds of them in New York and New Jersey. That number represents individual structures, including large businesses, meaning the number of people without light, heat or refrigeration is likely much higher.

02.50 am A picture of the New York skyline post-Sandy

•They saved some of the electrical grid by powering it down. Now that they're returning power, some of those lines are in the water. "Arthur Kasprzak, 28, an off-duty NYPD police officer, was killed in the basement of his home after ushering his girlfriend, child, and friends and relatives to the attic of their home in South Beach, according to slive.com. Police believe he was electricuted by a live wire when he went down into the basement and touched the flood water." How many more of those will there be?

•Some of you may have seen pix of the massive fire in the Breezy Point community of Queens, N.Y.; it destroyed at least 110 homes and damaged 20 others. Firefighters had difficulty reaching the blaze because of the severe weather. Here's what's left:





"More than 100 homes were destroyed, hundreds more suffered flood damage and dozens of houses were swept off their foundations, officials said.":

"To describe it as looking like pictures we've seen of the end of World War II is not overstating it," Bloomberg said. "The area was completely leveled. Chimneys and foundations were all that was left of many of these homes."

•Nearly 7,500 National Guard soldiers and airmen were on duty in Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, North Carolina, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Virginia. Does anyone think things will stay peaceful in the ensuing weeks, with this mess?

•Drinking water:
Quote:

Raw sewage, industrial chemicals and floating debris filled flooded waterways around New York City on Tuesday.

Left in the wake of Hurricane Sandy, the toxic stew may threaten the health of residents already dealing with more direct damages from the disaster.

"Normally, sewer overflows are just discharged into waterways and humans that generate the sewage can avoid the consequences by avoiding the water," said John Lipscomb of the clean water advocacy group Riverkeeper. "But in this case, that waste has come back into our communities."

There's Gowanus neighborhood in Brooklyn, which abuts a 1.8 mile canal that was recently designated a Superfund cleanup site by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency due to a legacy of industrial pollution and sewage discharges.

And New York City's other Superfund site, Newtown Creek, a waterway that forms the border between Brooklyn and Queens. "The fact is that waste from all these industries -- metal-working, pencil manufacturing, everything -- all this stuff is going to rise up into the dirt, basements, everywhere," Richard Platzman, 30, said, noting Greenpoint's widely-recognized designation as New York City's most polluted neighborhood.

A number of older U.S. communities -- including a number of East Coast cities affected by Sandy -- sit atop antiquated plumbing that carries sewage, industrial wastewater and rainwater together to treatment plants.

"You can think about this like an Exxon Valdez accident, but instead of there being one contaminant it's a zillion contaminants -- from floatables to dissolvables to containers of contaminants -- and instead of one location, there's a zillion point sources," John Lipscomb of the clean water advocacy group Riverkeeper said. "This is a stunning pollution event. I don't think the harbor has ever taken a hit like today." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/30/hurricane-sandy-sewage-toxic-
_n_2046963.html
]

•Many are now homeless...think of the volume of newly-homeless people in just NY and NJ right now. What happens to them? Where do they all go?

•A half-dozen nuclear power plants were shut down or otherwise affected, while the nation's oldest facility declared a rare "alert" after the record storm surge pushed flood waters high enough to endanger a key cooling system.

Here's, in my opinion, the biggie: Transportation.

• The tunnels are flooded. South Ferry subway station was "flooded up to the ceiling," while each tube of the Hugh L. Carey Tunnel — better known as the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel — was filled with 43 million gallons of water.

• All 10 subway tunnels between Manhattan and Brooklyn were flooded during the storm. Services is unlikely to resume for four or five days, according to Bloomberg. Christies says PATH train service between Manhattan and New Jersey is likely to be suspended for seven to 10 days.

21.10 am EDT: This is why it's going to take several days before New York's subways can re-open. This picture, put out by Governor Cuomo's office, shows Whitehall subway station.

• The airports are closed. As of two hours ago,
Quote:

•The New York region's airports were closed Tuesday. JFK International and Newark Liberty will open early Wednesday and offer limited service; LaGuardia will remain closed "due to extensive damage," Cuomo said. More than 18,000 flights had been canceled, while Amtrak canceled all of its Northeast Corridor rail service Tuesday, in addition to some other lines. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49605748/ns/weather/


That area, unlike us Crazy Californians, depends on its rapid transit almost exclusively just to GET AROUND. They can't. They won't be able to for a while, days or more. They can't go to work, school, the market (if there were any markets nearby with food and/or electricity). How many no longer have cars even if the tunnels and roads WERE open? What's going to happen to those people, as days go by?

I think this will be bigger than Katrina, in the long haul. New Orleans, aside from the city itself, is from what I saw of it an area of FAR less dense population than the areas Sandy hit worst. Unquestionably the initial death toll will be far lower than Katrina, but it's already obvious that the infrastructure and economic costs are already higher.

Chris Christie is damned impressive. He said right out he isn't interested in whether Romney will come to tour the area with him, that if anyone thinks he gives a damn about politics right now, they don't know him. I believe it. I've been watching him throughout tonight, and I'm damned impressed. What was it Ann Coulter said?

---------------

Bear in mind the following:

• Highest rainfall totals: Easton, Md., with 12.55 inches, according to AccuWeather.com.

• Highest wind gusts: Eatons Neck, N.Y., with 94 mph, according to AccuWeather.com.

• Highest snow amounts: Redhouse, Md., with 26 inches, according to AccuWeather.com; second highest was Bowden, W.Va., with 24 inches.

• Height of waves on Lake Michigan: 20 feet, according to NBC affiliate WTHR.

• A record tide of 13.88 feet was set at The Battery in Lower Manhattan on Monday night, breaking the previous record of 11.2 feet in 1821.

• Sandy broke low pressure records in six cities: Atlantic City, N.J.; Philadelphia; Harrisburg, Pa.; Scranton, Pa; Trenton, N.J.; and Baltimore. There were near records in: Newark, N.J.; New York City; Washington, D.C.; Lynchburg, Va.; and Elkins, W.Va.

• Hurricane Sandy is officially listed as the largest hurricane to have formed in the Atlantic Basin, according to the National Hurricane Center, as it reached 1,000 miles in diameter.

• The confluence of these three meteorological events isn't unheard of, but the ride of sea level and the increased intensity of weather because of climate change--yes, that again--will make calling things like this "100-year storms" a thing of the past.

Bear in mind that global warming is actually a misnomer. It should be called "global swings", so that we can have droughts, flooding, forest fires, etc. happening at the same time in different points of the earth. So global warming is actually the weather on steroids. This is consistent with the 100 year floods, 100 year forest fires, 100 year droughts that we seem to have every few years now.

The problem is, the longer it takes to convince people global warming/climate change EXISTS, the longer before we do anything about it.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No, it will not be worse than Katrina.


Not unless more than 1500-1800 people DIE in this storm, it won't.

Things? Things can be replaced. Homes can be rebuilt. The dead stay dead. The human cost of Katrina was incalculable.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



For all the damage, it could have been much worse.

Had it hit later, and made landfall w/ high tide, and been a stronger storm,instead of a category 1, destruction would have been much more severe.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:18 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course I wasn't referring to the death toll. I meant the damage, the destruction to New York and New Jersey especially, the cost, the disruption of people's lives and the suffering (people who are still alive also count, you know), etc.

9/11 cost 3,000 lives, but only involved a few buildings. The inhabitants of New York continued their lives, mostly unchanged except for those connected with the people who died. Does that make it "worse" than Katrina, all the people who suffered, all those whose lives have been changed forever, all those who are STILL suffering its afteraffects? If you think it was worse, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I stand by my prediction.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Of course I wasn't referring to the death toll. I meant the damage, the destruction to New York and New Jersey especially, the cost, the disruption of people's lives and the suffering (people who are still alive also count, you know), etc.

9/11 cost 3,000 lives, but only involved a few buildings. The inhabitants of New York continued their lives, mostly unchanged except for those connected with the people who died. Does that make it "worse" than Katrina, all the people who suffered, all those whose lives have been changed forever, all those who are STILL suffering its afteraffects? If you think it was worse, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I stand by my prediction.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.




Again, the cost of 9/11 to this country - and to Iraq - is immeasurable. Nearly 3000 died that day, and unknown tens of thousands in the aftermath. The monetary costs are already in the trillions. And how many are still suffering, how many whose lives were forever changed by that day?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 1, 2012 6:56 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Of course I wasn't referring to the death toll. I meant the damage, the destruction to New York and New Jersey especially, the cost, the disruption of people's lives and the suffering (people who are still alive also count, you know), etc.

9/11 cost 3,000 lives, but only involved a few buildings. The inhabitants of New York continued their lives, mostly unchanged except for those connected with the people who died. Does that make it "worse" than Katrina, all the people who suffered, all those whose lives have been changed forever, all those who are STILL suffering its afteraffects? If you think it was worse, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I stand by my prediction.



Sorry this is long. Remember – trapped at home last night with candlelight, wine, and nothing to do but read threads I downloaded earlier that day. This comment touched on something I've been noticing and pondering all week. So here’s my attempt to describe it…

I’ve had two connections to the world this week: the internet when I go out and find it, and the radio. When stuck in my dark, boring, candlelit apartment (as I am now), my rechargeable radio is all I have. I’m completely dependent on it, like families gathered about the radio in the 1930’s. Oddly, I find that it is a more direct connection to the life of NYC than any online news and video.

I have been seriously addicted to one station—WFUV 90.7—since I moved to NY 4 ½ years ago, and these folks have brought me through this week. I’ve been listening in on their updates on bridge, tunnel, subway and MetroNorth closings, their news updates, quirky music choices, DJ adjustments, etc

(And can I say, while I write this by candlelight on Halloween night, that if you can find a webcast of the Alternate Side’s Halloween show on WFUV, you ought to listen to it. Damn these DJs are good. No Monster Mash here. Think Birthday Party—Release the Bats! the Mountain Goats—Damn These Vampires. Talking Heads—Psycho killer. Oingo Boingo, The Misfits, Chromatics, Tom Waits, The Cure…)

I wasn’t in NYC on 9/11, I was in Boston. It was incredibly real and in my face at the time, and now I’ve been in NYC long enough to hear from those who lived through the actual event. I’ve heard the FUV DJs do anniversary shows, dance teachers plan classes around it, I’ve even heard from those who worked at ground zero. I don’t know if I can explain the difference between that and this, but I’ll try.

The radio: Today (Wednesday 10/31) has had several updates about how the subway and MetroNorth will be back in service tomorrow. What they’re saying: “the subway will be up and running, except the 7, 3, G, SIR (and some other) lines, and no trains below 34th on the west side and 42nd on the east side…” About Metronorth, the commuter line I take into the city on weekends: “It’ll run from Grand Central out to Stamford. That’s half of the usual riders, able to commute to their jobs.”

They say this like it’s just great news YAY! We’ll actually have the subway running a little bit tomorrow! Some commuters, able to come to work! (Not including my neighbor, whose office building is near Battery Park and totally flooded so who knows when it’ll open, so it does her no good to have a train to take her there.)

Now, I’m thinking Holy fuck this is huge, that three days—three whole days after a storm—they’re finally able to run a few subways lines on limited runs in goddamned Manhattan? We’re talking MANHATTAN here – the city that doesn’t sleep! WTF? How can we have limited subway in Manhattan and that’s OK? How can it be OK that only ½ of the CT commuters can get to NYC, and tunnels are still closed, and downtown is flooded, and midtown still has no power, and millions of people in CT and upstate NY (including me) have no power? This is HUGE!

And yet, the radio announcer guy is totally blasé about it.

This is so different from 9/11. Back then, every re-opening came through a haze of shock, not optimism. I don't know how to describe what it was.

Let me be emotionless Spock for a minute: 9/11 killed, proportionately speaking, a teeny tiny fraction of the US population, and destroyed a miniscule fraction of the American infrastructure. It should not have hurt us like it did. We were still an Empire, we could still do what we did financially, agriculturally, technologically, militarily. But it crippled us emotionally and we crumbled into fearful little balls. It demolished us. It certainly demolished me, to the point that it still hurts me—really hurts me—to think about it. I lost no one, not even a distant acquaintance. I lost no personal property. I was not professionally affected. And yet, 9/11 damaged me. It left scars that will never fully heal. I know I’m not the only one.

What I’m seeing is that Sandy is actually more extensive in its physical reach, yet the damage is minimal. The whole attitude of New Yorkers in the face of this storm is so inexplicably different than 9/11. This is an inconvenience. It is not a personal attack. We will be shocked at the scale of it, we will grieve for the 60 (+) who tragically lost their lives, we will be annoyed by the loss of mobility, we will reel at the sudden disconnection from technology (have you heard about the mob scenes at every NYC Starbucks, source of precious *hot* coffee and free internet?), we will sigh and impatiently put up with long term travel delays as the mess is gradually cleared, but we aren’t in any way changed by this.

We are still who we were.

You can hear it in the voices of the DJs on FUV. Manhattan is closed down, but that is not a cause for terror and soul searching like what happened in 2001. Sandy is merely an excuse to step away from your life for a few days, stay home and sleep in and read the paper and light candles and drink Cosmopolitans and share your booze with neighbors who didn’t stock up in advance and contribute something more substantial to those who lost more.

But we aren’t changed. Our lives will go back to what they were.

Is this bigger than 9/11? Never. Maybe it should be, maybe it should serve as a climate change wakeup call. Maybe it will eventually. But the event itself is so much less painful than what happened 11 years ago that it doesn’t even exist in the same realm.


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Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:20 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
No, it will not be worse than Katrina.


Not unless more than 1500-1800 people DIE in this storm, it won't.


Why compare them? Katrina was a hurricane that resulted in many lost lives and billions of dollars in property damage and lost revenue and displaced hundreds of thousands of people for a very long time due to the complete destruction of dozens of small towns and severe damage to a major American city.

Sandy was a hurricane that resulted in many lost lives and billions of dollars in property damage and lost revenue and displaced hundreds of thousands of people for a very long time due to the complete destruction of dozens of small towns and severe damage to a major American city.

Seems you don't need to compare them...just dig out and rebuild.

The real question is: how does this benefit me? Katrina shut down numerous refineries and damaged or delayed oil imports which resulted in an immediate and dramatic price increase. Sandy had all that (including a half dozen refineriers shut down) yet Ohio continues to see our gas prices moving down so that we just hit a one-year low.

Sandy...good for Ohio? Probably not. Ohio gas prices have been mysteriously falling since mid-September and to continue to fall during and after a major disaster like this means some other magical force is sending low gas prices to this wonderful state. In other words...get on the fence everybody, it's good to be a swing state!

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 2:47 PM

OONJERAH







The animals, yes!! But I was even more worried for the Homeless.

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 3:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"And yet, 9/11 damaged me. It left scars that will never fully heal."

Well, I have mixed thoughts on that.

Let's assume that we had a president who got on TV, who said - Today the United states was attacked in an unconscionable way. We will protect the American citizen from further attack, we will find those who did this and bring them to justice, and we will rebuild - preserving what is best about our country, and its hope, its freedom, and it's future. (with appropriate specifics to make it concrete)

Instead what we got was BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! THE EVIL MUSLIMS ARE EVERYWHERE AND OUT TO GET YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! THEY COULD BE IN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, THE MALL, YOUR KIDS' SOFTBALL GAME!

How Bush responded didn't serve the people of this country well, I don't think (though it did serve the interests of a cabal in Washington).

Would a difference is response have made a difference to you?

ETA: I understand you're not a naive person easily swayed by propaganda. But I think at a time when it would have taken an extraordinary presidential response to avert fear and panic, instead what the country got was a prod to respond with extremes. If you look around and you see the whole country is descending into mindless response rather than thoughtful action, I think it's a powerful reason to feel the country has become unmoored.


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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Thank you Mal4, that was a very well written post and I feel like I know you better after reading it, I feel like can connect with you better.

I think Katrina was worse because of the higher death toll and the fact that things took sooooooo long to get back together again. Sandy was bad, I'm not denying that because lots of bad things happened, lives were lost, the subway was crippled for goodness sake, it is a big thing to be sure. But the storm itself was less strong, even though it was bigger.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:06 PM

OONJERAH



During the Reagan era, when homelessness became a much
bigger problem than it ever had been, bigger than in the
Great Depression, I naïvely thought, "This is only temporary.
This is the richest country in the world. Soon these people
will be given whatever help they need (jobs, maybe) to settle
into new homes."

I was wrong. It got worse.

Does anyone besides me recall who was running for President
in 1952. Their names, reputations?

I guess 1960 would mark the real, obvious turning point.
"America the beautiful," we used to sing at school. It was true
back then.

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:53 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Let's assume that we had a president who got on TV, who said - Today the United states was attacked in an unconscionable way. We will protect the American citizen from further attack, we will find those who did this and bring them to justice, and we will rebuild - preserving what is best about our country, and its hope, its freedom, and it's future. (with appropriate specifics to make it concrete)

Instead what we got was BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! THE EVIL MUSLIMS ARE EVERYWHERE AND OUT TO GET YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! THEY COULD BE IN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, THE MALL, YOUR KIDS' SOFTBALL GAME!

How Bush responded didn't serve the people of this country well, I don't think (though it did serve the interests of a cabal in Washington).

Would a difference is response have made a difference to you?



OMG. The Bush line about: go shopping. Jesus. The best way to deal with this was to go shopping?

OK, to be fair I understand the meaning underneath there, that we needed to keep the economy moving, but could there be any clearer example of how money=everything for certain people? Maybe we needed to address other issues first? And to think, when Bush won in 2000 I thought - literally: well, maybe nothing important will happen and in 2004 we'll move on... *facepalm*

Um. What was my point? Actually, I didn't get the fear message in 2001. Maybe because I aws in Boston. What I got was an awareness that crazies might try to strike out at innocent Muslims and that should not happen (I love living in a blue state where people think like this!) but more than that I felt a solidarity with everyone in the US. People were flying the flag everywhere, and it seemed to be saying: "Hey this hurt me too. I feel for you. Set our differences aside and see what we have in common right now - this hurt us all."

And I hate Bush more than anything because he squandered that unity. He turned it into: "Support ME and my oil/military pals and what we want or you aren't 'merican. You want peace? You don't want to attack? Then you aren't really red white and blue." Fucker.

Um... so, anyway, the hurt I'm talking about is actually a different thing than the Bush bitterness. The days after 9-11 were a total wake-up call, that there were people in the world who would kill me without question because I'm American. I guess I knew that, but I didn't really KNOW that.

There was other stuff going down in my life at the time that may have compounded things.

BTW, sorry I hijacked a bit by bringing 9-11 into this. It's where my brain was last week. I have power and internet now and I'm feeling much less maudlin.

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 5:03 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

During the Reagan era, when homelessness became a much
bigger problem than it ever had been, bigger than in the
Great Depression, I naïvely thought, "This is only temporary.
This is the richest country in the world. Soon these people
will be given whatever help they need (jobs, maybe) to settle
into new homes."

I was wrong. It got worse.

Does anyone besides me recall who was running for President
in 1952. Their names, reputations?

I guess 1960 would mark the real, obvious turning point.
"America the beautiful," we used to sing at school. It was true
back then.


We like Ike?

Do you know the intro scene to Watchmen? I don't love the movie, but that intro gets me. The scene where Kennedy gets shot makes me teary. OK, the movie is totally fictionalizing history, but I feel like something major changed in Dallas that day, and that scene touches on it. Things started swinging in a different direction. My imperfect understanding: it headed toward Nixon, whose administration involved a young Cheney. Cheney believed that the loss of executive power when Nixon went down was wrong, and he's been fighting to get it back. That is behind the swing towards Bush, which is living on in Romney.

I know it's infinitely more complicated, and I don't at all think it's a single evil cabal or anything, but I think the country took a huge turn when JFK was shot. It makes me very sad. I wish I could visit the alternate reality where he had lived and the Right corporate/military/fundie hadn't risen.

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 5:50 PM

OONJERAH



Mal4Prez: We like Ike?

Oonj: We liked Ike. Loved Ike. We liked his opponent, Adlai
Stevenson just as well. They were both great men.



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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 5:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Thank you Mal4Prez. I appreciate your reply. It wasn't the response of others that you were reacting to, it was the previously unacknowledged threat to your safety and life.

Oh yeah - power and internet! Way cool!

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Tuesday, November 6, 2012 6:33 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Mal4Prez: We like Ike?


My favorite radio station played the tune from the musical last night, the original that the political ditties were based on. Wow. Seems such a more innocent time, that such a tune worked.

Sadly, I don't know Adali well. I'm a scientist, not a historian. Notoriously bad at history, in fact.

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In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
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Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
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BUILD BACK BETTER!
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Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
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Russian losses in Ukraine
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human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
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NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
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