REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Texans petitioning to withdraw from the United States

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Friday, November 16, 2012 07:14
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7005
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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:52 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas
-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B


Over 75,000 signatures since 11/09/12, and open for more until 12/9/12. Not many out of 26 million or so, but...

Upwards of 20 states have similar petitions in the works, but Texas is way ahead. (click on "open petitions" on the linked page to see more)

Apparently, if more than 25,000 signatures are collected, the President has to consider the request.

Well, it's right there in the Bill of Rights, "...or the right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The White House response should be interesting.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wish them godspeed, if most of them wish to go.

And if most of them do not, then I look forward to that choice being honored.

I'd love for there to be a popular vote in Texas so that the matter can be settled.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:02 AM

STORYMARK


Whiners.

Texas gets back more Federal money than they contribute - let 'em go. While they're at it, they can pay back the Federal stimulus money they took, as well as Federal disaster releif funds.

Its all just pathetic t-bagger posturing anyway. Id bet several thousand of those signatures would go away the second they learned that the Dallas Cowboys could no longer play in the NFL. Yee-haw.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:06 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Well, it's right there in the Bill of Rights, "...or the right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The White House response should be interesting.



This just in, the White House's responce...

http://images.dailykos.com/i/admin/Obama_laughing_550

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhhh, Nick...if I hadn't just given out the prize for the first laugh of the morning to Frem for the great Stan's Cat video, you would have gotten it hands down. That's priceless.

Yeah, I read about this shit last night. These people are truly pathetic. It's the first time I EVER remember a party being such sour losers. I guess we were after 2000, but there was kind of good reason for that, what with the Supremes and all. I don't think anyone talked secession then, tho'.

I guess it's not completely surprising, given how they were led astray by the right-wing media, etc. and thought the election was such a lock.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Remember, these are people, good patriots all, who just love their country so very much that if one election doesn't go their way, they'd rather quit the country than try to work with the other side.

As one who is behind enemy lines, so to speak, I'd love to see this shit happen. Last time Texas was on their own they came begging for federal help, whining that those scary Mexicans were beating up on them.

So what do they imagine would happen this time? What do you think would occur the day after Texas is allowed to leave the United States? The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, all gone - the biggest employers in the state, mind you - the Coast Guard gone, the Border Patrol all gone.

Who's supposed to protect Texas from the Mexican drug cartels? The full force of all 116 Texas Rangers (not the baseball team)?

As far as federal dollars coming into the state, though, I think it's pretty close to even - we pay a dollar in, get a dollar back, or very nearly so. A quick check shows us even in a bit of a surplus as far as tax contributions versus spending goes.

Still, it would be something to see - armed border checkpoints on every road into Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico (37% cleaner than Old Mexico!™), Texas people having to show their passports to board a plane to their ski cottage in Breckenridge or Cloudcroft, etc.

Hell, even Rick Perry knows it's a stupid idea!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:14 AM

BYTEMITE


In fairness, I have plans to become a gypsy sailor if things in this country get much worse, but it's not exactly a plan dependent on which party is in office.

I figure I'd do well though because I'd already have some skill in abandoning a sinking ship.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:23 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Absolutely, Mark. Hey, aren't these the guys who are always screaming "America: Love it or leave it"?? Sauce for goose, mayhap?


Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Again?
I agree with everything Quicko said here.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:57 PM

CHRISISALL


This is such bullshit; if Romney had won we would have just moved to the UK or Austrailia, not whined like babies.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA



My first reaction was "Um.. Good Riddance?"
Seriously, don't even get me STARTED on Tex-ass, Mikey knows just how deeply I can excoriate them on a bad day....

They wanna go so bad, I'd suggest a country more compatible to their beliefs, like say... Somalia, or backwater Taliban controlled Afghanistan, cause yanno other than mere quibbles over which prophet is dominant, not seeing a damn lot of difference, plus Somalia is corporation-looting friendly and has even less regard for women, their perfect Utopia, or rather, what that would REALLY be like - watching them come face to face with it would be as satisfying as Mal showing the Operative his "perfect world", a planet full of corpses.

For them that think the religious right and the Taliban ain't the same damn thing I offer you a little minigame for your amusement.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/10/richa
rd_mourdock_rape_scandal_spot_the_difference_between_the_christian.html


Oh, and the gypsy sailor thing amuses me cause I had a kinda-sorta south american "pirate" offer to bail me out of this country if things ever get too bad, dunno how serious they are about it but they have enough status at home to smooth it over.
Still, I wouldn't know how to quit if I tried, not so much the guy who intentionally goes down with the ship as the crazy bastard belowdecks cranking off volleys without regard to the waterline, yanno ?

-Frem

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
This is such bullshit; if Romney had won we would have just moved to the UK or Austrailia, not whined like babies.



And you'd be welcome any time.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:15 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I agree Niki, the "fair and balance" guys were talking so much shit that Romney was gonna crush Obama that they actually believed their own bullshit.
So much so, that when the news that Ohio went to the President, Rove went ballistic with his own news people questioning their findings.

That was one of the strangest things I ever saw...........it was poetic justice. Imagine real news won out!!!!!

We now have a new Mastercard commercial..............the look on Karl Rove's face - - - priceless!


SGG

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:29 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Kwix, how about this?

We get them to build their own wall at the border that will keep those whiners out. They could get 100 thousand signatures it's a mere drop in the bucket.
But it would be interesting to see the president call their bluff and have Texas vote on suck-session!

Seems to me I've seen this movie.............hey, wait a tic......

Civil war, independents, ruling class, corporations.....all we need is some mandarin.


SGG

Just sayin!

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Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:52 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Heard about this the other day, Texas and the other , what?, 22 states. Caused me a night of bad thoughts and dreams. After all, isn't this what caused The Civil War? One tiny word of Real action and we're one shot away from Fort Sumpter. Caused by bad loser "real Americans." Again.

Then I woke up this morning. In the light of day, I realized that this was a tiny group of loud mouths, a species Texas is famous for, less than 1/10 of 1 %, 1 /1000 of the population of Texas. Reality set in-- even THEY aren't DUMB enough to ACTUALLY go thru with it- the Feds would close every U S gov't facility in the state and roll away all the hardware, stop paying out all the Federal dollars, throw all the Texas Congressmen out of the Senate and the House of Reps. USA certainly wouldn't leave federal heavy weapons, jet airplanes, nuclear weapons there. Certainly would relocate all US navy vessels to ports in other states. Cancel all police assistance, FBI and INS. Close the NASA facilities. ( " Houston, we really do have a problem.") Probably give every Texan in the US military a dishonorably discharge immediately, or else remind them of the oath they took when enlisting. Be pretty damn close to actual TREASON, on a mass scale.

SO it ain't gonna happen. If the petition gets 25,000 sigs, Obama has to consider it, I guess. That won't take long, will it? " Yeah, I thought about it. No." and it's done.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think he'd even consider it...I think the reaction Nick suggested is right on. And would be shared by many.

Texas is, well, Texas. No help for it. Some of those secessionist petitions surprised me, but like you, I recognized immediately this is just sour grapes of the worst kind by a very few who we'd love to get rid of anyway. I don't think even THEY are serious (at least, hopefully MOST of them), just making a statement.

Problem is, it's a really stupid statement. What did Bobby Jindal say? Something about ceasing to be the "stupid party". http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/13/jindal-declines-to-rul
e-out-2016-white-house-bid/?hpt=hp_t2
Yup.

By the way, nutcase that he is, even Rick Perry doesn't support this idiocy:
Quote:

Rick Perry doesn't support secession petition on White House website

"Gov. [Rick] Perry believes in the greatness of our Union and nothing should be done to change it," his press secretary Catherine Frazier wrote in a statement. "But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government."//politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/13/rick-perry-doesnt-support-secession-petition-on-white-house-website/?hpt=hp_t2



Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Been looking through the White House petition site, and there are some pretty interesting ones there. For example.

"We call on President Obama to propose an Amendment to the Constitution in order to reform the Electoral College. States would appropriate their electoral votes in each Presidential Election through the Congressional District Method. Already in place in Maine and Nebraska, this system divides each state into its Congressional Districts, and allots one electoral vote per district. The candidate who wins the popular vote in that district would receive its single electoral vote. The candidate who wins the statewide popular vote would receive the two additional electoral votes. This reform would make every vote in every state important to a candidate, and give voters a larger incentive to vote, while maintaining the importance of states in our federal government."

I might sign up for that one myself, just to see what the response would be.

ETA: I did create an account and sigh that petition. It's not that hard.

Of course, then there's this, with 410 signatures so far.

"legalize crystal fucking weed.

SOOOOOO $TONED FUCK MAN AW $HIT NIGGA HELLA MOTHA FUCKING 666 ODD FUTURE MAN BRO CHECK THIS OUT MY SWAG WITH THE WHAT WHOLE 666 420 $$$$ HOLLA HOLLA GET DOLLA SWED CASH FUCKING MARIJUANA CIGARETTES GANGSTA GANGSTA EAZY-E C.R.E.A.M. SO BAKED OFF OF THE BOBMARLEY GANJA 420 SHIT PURE OG KUUSSHHH LEGALIZE CRYSTAL WEED."

You can also read responses to previous petitions, including the recipe for White House Honey Ale.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:18 AM

BYTEMITE


"Crystal" weed? That guy needs to sober up in a hurry. More to life than sitting around getting baked off your gourd. World is damned awful enough without a significant population of perfectly healthy folks numbing itself to the terribleness instead of doing something about it.

I'm for legalizing weed, but I'm not for enabling idiocy. Get it together man.

I anticipate even more insane gerrymanding from the proposal for the electoral college. Screw the electoral college, it just drowns out the dissenting vote. Just make it a popular vote. At least until people get fed up with the failings of a true democracy and the social order collapses completely.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:51 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


There's now a petition to deport everyone who has petitioned to leave. (Doesn't say where we would send them, though. Maybe we could carve off a slice of Alaska for them, plenty of land there.)


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:28 AM

RIPWASH


Geezer, that petition actually makes some sense! I'd be on board with that one. The electoral college, thing. Not the Crystal Weed. Let's just say I had a... bad experience ;)

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:45 AM

BYTEMITE


:o

It's you! Welcome back.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:02 AM

RIPWASH


Thanks! I come back with a massive amount of caution since the election, mind you :)

And what I said about the weed. That was a joke. Never done anything like that in my life. Just sayin' :)

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree about the crystal weed...that's downright weird and the guy must be out of his gourd, as said. I've never heard of such a thing and don't know why anyone would WANT it. Hash should be good enough, if dope isn't strong enough! (Have visions of some idiot sitting there trying to shoot dope...shees!).

I like the electorial college one, sort of. I'd certainly like to see it done away with, but I'd prefer just one person, one vote, myownself. There are too many ways to fuck up the one as written.

I kinda like deporting the idjits on that petition, too, but I'd prefer to see them deport the people who WROTE it, who are the real assholes. Perfectly normal people can be convinced to sign it, even as just a statement, so they don't deserve to be punished. Not serious, of course; everyone's free to petition for anything they like, however assinine. It's a free country, which means you're free to be stupid, too...or even have a "stupid party", to quote Bobby Jindal!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:42 AM

STORYMARK







Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Prize for first giggle of the morning. Cracks me up.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
There's now a petition to deport everyone who has petitioned to leave. (Doesn't say where we would send them, though. Maybe we could carve off a slice of Alaska for them, plenty of land there.)




Canada. I'm not joking. Or maybe I am.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/12726-attention-conservatives-canada
-has-a-home-for-you








"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWASH:
Thanks! I come back with a massive amount of caution since the election, mind you :)

And what I said about the weed. That was a joke. Never done anything like that in my life. Just sayin' :)




RIPPER! Why, you old so-and-so, where the heck have you been?

More importantly, HOW the heck have you been?

Good to see you 'round these parts again. You've been missed.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:








Oh hey-Zeus... That's right down the damn street from me.

Once again I join the Dixie Chicks in being so embarrassed for my state...

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:04 AM

BYTEMITE


Kwicko, you're in congress?

/Jayne

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:17 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWASH:
Thanks! I come back with a massive amount of caution since the election, mind you :)

And what I said about the weed. That was a joke. Never done anything like that in my life. Just sayin' :)




RIPPER! Why, you old so-and-so, where the heck have you been?

More importantly, HOW the heck have you been?

Good to see you 'round these parts again. You've been missed.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."



I've been well! Got a job, moved to Florida and in the meantime diverted most of my on-line time to the black hole that is Facebook (catching up with friends and whatnot). I don't really know why I wandered away from here, but the reunion special this weekend got me a little curious to see if things were the same around here :) Looks like there are fewer of my "type", so I come back with a full suit of virtual armor as one of the few Conservatives in the bunch :)

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ooo, ooo, ooo, a conservative? Hi, I'm Niki, don't think you have been around since I joined a couple of years ago (tho' I could be wrong). I'm a liberal, but I've been praying to have intelligent conservatives here for ages and ages--you know the ones who could be part of a discussion civilly...are you one of those? We've got Jong, and a couple of other civil types who aren't technically conservatives or Republicans, but the rest are a pretty sad representation of conservatism, Republican, right wing, whatever.

You've obviously been remembered with fondness, and the few posts you've put up sure sound like you might be a real-life, intelligent, decent person...could my dream have come true?

Either way: greetings and welcome back (if I may be so bold, given I'm obviously a newbie in comparison to you).

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


On this issue:
Quote:

Some on the right are concerned that the petitions to secede, posted on a White House website by angry voters, are setting conservatives up as easy targets for the mockery of liberals.

Damned straight!
Quote:

Whether these disgruntled folks are just conservatives venting about President Obama’s reelection, or whether they really believe they’d have a brighter future in the United State of Georgia, say, is an open question. But they’ve received a lot of media attention in recent days, to the point where some on the right are asking this question: Are these people just helping the left?

That’s because the whole thing goes beyond the appearance of sore losing and nears the outer rings of planet lunacy. It makes conservatives look unhinged and foolish, in this view, setting them up as easy targets for the mockery of liberals. Take Jon Stewart, who on his “Daily Show” Tuesday night said he now understands why so many Southerners still fly the Confederate flag.

“It’s like keeping your fat pants after you lose some weight. You’re happy for now with the new you, but ..." Mr. Stewart said in a segment titled in part “Whine Country.”

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

We would not be surprised if angry voters from all 50 states eventually start petitions since there are some irritated citizens everywhere, after all.


My gawd, I just noticed, some idjits from CALIFORNIA posted one! Talk about being diagonally parked in a parallel universe... I WANT THEIR NAMES! Deport them from California!

Once again I ask: Aren't these the people who most often say "America, love it or leave it"??

Well, apparently there are those out there with two brain cells left to rub together, anyway:
Quote:

Other conservatives have been blunter in their defense of the integrity of the nation that was kept together by Abraham Lincoln, a Republican. Over at the RedState blog, editor Erick Erickson – no softy, given that he wants to oust Speaker John Boehner in favor of Rep. Paul Ryan – scoffs at the whole effort.

“We here at RedState are American citizens. We have no plans to secede from the union. If you do, good luck with that, but this is not the place for you,” he wrote on Tuesday.

“Talk of secession is asinine, counter-productive, and distracting,” Charles C.W. Cooke of the National Review wrote.

One of the best pieces of evidence supporting Mr. Cooke’s above conclusion is that these petitions are still up. They’re on a White House website, remember. If the Obama administration thought this movement truly undermined the White House, don’t you think it’d find a reason to take them down?


No, keep 'em up...let us laugh at these sore-loser asshats for just as long as we can! It's up to 34 states as of this writing, which just goes to prove that there are right-wing dimwits in virtually EVERY state!

Good luck with that, you s

To me, one of the biggest giggles is Papa John's guy...gonna have to cut their $2 billion company by $8 million to provide healthcare; at the same time a he has an ad out promising to give away two million pizzas!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:15 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Its all just pathetic t-bagger posturing anyway. Id bet several thousand of those signatures would go away the second they learned that the Dallas Cowboys could no longer play in the NFL. Yee-haw.


It is kinda silly. It's the 150th Anniversery of the Civil War, secession is a settled issue.

Now what they should be doing is petititioning to kick other States out.

Let's start with California and Vermont (California is one earthquake for being Nevada anyway and is by definition a 'fiscal cliff' and Vermont wants to go anyway and it's no big loss since we can ski and get syrup from New Hampshire). Then we'll take Rhode Island and merge them with Connecticut and do we really need two Dakotas when we barely have enough people for one...how about just Dakota and its big without many people...like Alaska. Let's see. Merge New Jersey and Delaware (New Delajers or Snookivania). Get rid of Detroit (literally...with bulldozers and some nice landscaping, maybe a rain garden). Make New York City a Federal city like Washington DC (NYCDC), also...I've never been happy with the West Virgnia panhandle, so lets get rid of that and give them some extra cushion on the south side to make up for it. Statehood for Puerta Rico and American Samoa. We give Washington State to Canada in exchange for Quebec and a province to be named later...hmmm...can we reroute some rivers? No, that's too much.

Done.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:18 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Hi, I'm Niki...I'm a liberal


Hi Niki. Welcome to your first meeting. The first step is admitting you have a problem. Just remember take it one day at a time.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Kwicko, you're in congress?

/Jayne




With "The Beast", according to some in my family...

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:58 PM

BOOKONBOARDSYSTEMCOM


I usually avoid political subjects like the plague. I find most people don't want to consider another view they just want to voice theirs.

I have lived in Texas my whole life, and that's more than few decades. So I feel the need to come to it's rescue in this case.

Now in Texas you don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I have heard the tale of Texas retaining it's right to secede for the nation since I was old enough to understand what the word meant. I was told that in grade school. While it is untrue, it's hard to convince someone that has heard it stated as fact their whole lives that it's untrue. No more so than those Bigfoot hunters will believe its a guy in a monkey suit. (We have Bigfoot's in TX too...or guys in monkey suits)

I've heard talk of secession over issues a lot less meaningful than election results. It's the go to when things upset you. " I hate (fill in the blank) we should secede"

It's how we blow off steam. It's not serious, and the vast majority of hard working Americans that happen to doublely bless to be in the Great State of Texas understand this.

So go a little easy on us. There is a petition on the same site that ask us to establish new legal system of motorcycle riding "Judges" who serve as police, judge, jury, and executioner all in one, Judge Dread style. It only has 83 signatures, but still that's a hell of a lot crazier than this.

So thank you for your understanding in this matter. Try to remember the great Texans that came before. That are not signing this petition (granted many are dead but I don't think they would)

Buddy Holly
Bonnie and Clyde
Walter Cronkite
Janice Joplin
Bob Wills
Gene Roddenberry
(Wow a lot of them are dead)
Carol Burnett (shes still kicking ain't she?)
Dan Rather
And ZZ Top

Thank you from the Lone Star State. (It's not lone because we want to be alone it just looks awesome.)


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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:52 PM

OONJERAH


. . .^- Applause!

========================= ETA
Add: Alan Tudyk, Tex Ritter, Robby Benson, Brent Spiner,
Rip Torn, Dennis Quaid, Kris Kristofferson, Powers Booth,
Gary Busey, Thomas Haden Church, Woody Harrelson,
Forest Whitaker, L Q Jones, Fess Parker, Patrick Swayze,
Chill Wills, Larry Hagman, Gene Autry, Robert Foxworth,
Matthew McConaughey, Ethan Hawke, Owen Wilson,
Jamie Foxx, Michael Dorn, Tommy Lee Jones ...

AND Audey Murphy

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by BookOnboardSystemCom:
Now in Texas you don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I have heard the tale of Texas retaining it's right to secede for the nation since I was old enough to understand what the word meant. I was told that in grade school. While it is untrue, it's hard to convince someone that has heard it stated as fact their whole lives that it's untrue.


Welcome to the sharkpit, Book!

Yeah, I have a lotta fun tearing into the hypocrisy on that one, not only knowing history but also from having once lived in Tex-ass, the part that rooked me worse is how they use the term "Yankee" in the exact same fashion as a racial slur, up to and including one Best Buy clerk refusing to ring up my purchases, man I was pissed - especially since I was born SOUTH of the Mason Dixon line...
*rolling eyes*

Not all bad though, decent food, at least.

-Frem

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Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm excited about some new (to me) people in this thread. Wash and Book too, that's funny. I'm Riona, I'm rowdy and obnoxious, I like new (to me) people. Wash how long ago were you here? I came at the beginning of 2011 so you must have been around before that. The more people we have around here the more diverse opinions we have and even if I don't always agree with what is said I think its really fantastic to have a place to say what you think with no moderation or censorship, you have to censor yourselves, sometimes it works better than others but it is good.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:13 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Hi, I'm Niki...I'm a liberal


Hi Niki. Welcome to your first meeting. The first step is admitting you have a problem. Just remember take it one day at a time.



Chortle.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:37 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


And PN apparently has a petition out there too.

"We, the People, DEMAND an immediate, thorough and honest investigation into GEO-ENGINEERING, HAARP, & "CHEMTRAILS"

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States of America, pursuant to the Bill of Rights, Amendment One, declare that we are grieved over the presence of "CHEMTRAILS" in the airspace over the U.S.A. and hereby petition the United States government to take immediate action to cease all Geo-Engineering, HAARP & "CHEMTRAIL" activity in the airspace over the United States of America.

WE, the People, further DEMAND an immediate, thorough and honest investigation into Geo-Engineering, HAARP, & what the substance called "CHEMTRAILS" actually consists of and discover the true purpose of spraying America (and its people) with harmful substances. THEREFORE, it is concluded that Americans are, and have been, under attack and have become the victims of BIOCHEMICAL WARFARE. We deserve answers to these charges."

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:34 AM

BOOKONBOARDSYSTEMCOM


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
use the term "Yankee" in the exact same fashion as a racial slur, up to and including one Best Buy clerk refusing to ring up my purchases, man I was pissed
-Frem



Yeah there are asshats everywhere. My company hires techs mostly from the south, but they work all over the US. We had one customer that fired us and we were not given a reason. The rest of his staff liked the work we were doing, it was priced fairly and no complaints.
A few weeks later we learn it was because he thought our southern accents sounded stupid. Turns out he was a big civil war buff that would reenact battles with his collectible toy soldiers. That war's been over for some time. Let it go man.


Oh and thank you and Rionaeire for the welcome


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Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:34 AM

RIPWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ooo, ooo, ooo, a conservative? Hi, I'm Niki, don't think you have been around since I joined a couple of years ago (tho' I could be wrong). I'm a liberal, but I've been praying to have intelligent conservatives here for ages and ages--you know the ones who could be part of a discussion civilly...are you one of those? We've got Jong, and a couple of other civil types who aren't technically conservatives or Republicans, but the rest are a pretty sad representation of conservatism, Republican, right wing, whatever.

You've obviously been remembered with fondness, and the few posts you've put up sure sound like you might be a real-life, intelligent, decent person...could my dream have come true?

Either way: greetings and welcome back (if I may be so bold, given I'm obviously a newbie in comparison to you).

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.



Hi Niki,

You had just joined, I think, when I was phasing myself out. I'm surprised I'm remembered "fondly" or that I was missed (according to Kwicko LOL), but I did have a good relationship with Kwicko because we were civil and respectful to each other despite our political differences. I like him quite a bit, actually. We would concede to valid points made by the other and respectfully disagreed on points that were not to our liking. I do remember a time when I was being attached unfairly and Kwick jumped to my defense. I'd always appreciated that.

I don't believe in name-calling or belittling because it gets us nowhere. But I will defend myself, don't get me wrong :) I like to think we're all here because of our common love of a quirky little show that we all connected to in some form or another. We'll all have our differences, but we should all agree on the awesomeness of the show, the characters, and the actors who brought them to life.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by BookOnboardSystemCom:
Now in Texas you don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I have heard the tale of Texas retaining it's right to secede for the nation since I was old enough to understand what the word meant. I was told that in grade school. While it is untrue, it's hard to convince someone that has heard it stated as fact their whole lives that it's untrue.


Welcome to the sharkpit, Book!

Yeah, I have a lotta fun tearing into the hypocrisy on that one, not only knowing history but also from having once lived in Tex-ass, the part that rooked me worse is how they use the term "Yankee" in the exact same fashion as a racial slur, up to and including one Best Buy clerk refusing to ring up my purchases, man I was pissed - especially since I was born SOUTH of the Mason Dixon line...
*rolling eyes*

Not all bad though, decent food, at least.

-Frem




What you failed to understand, Frem, is that here in Texas, everyone north of the Red River is a "yankee" - and yes, they really do use it just like a racial slur.

I've lived in Texas for more than 40 of my 50 years, but to many here I'm still a "yankee". That's fine by me, since I can easily point out who won that last little skirmish...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ripwash is Hero's sockpuppet? Did you screw up keeping your personna straight, or did you respond to my welcome to Ripwash just to be an asshole? I find it hard to believe you could be he, given the way he writes seems to me quite reasonable and intelligent, two things I would hesitate to call you. For now, I'll go on the assumption you are two different people, and address him the way he addresses others here.

As to your "I understand. California is an earthquake for being Nevada"?, did you mean "one earthquake FROM being Nevada"? Hooo, eee, that shows how little YOU know! As for being a "fiscal cliff", I'm happy to inform you:
Quote:

California's budget shows signs of a surplus, analyst says

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- The state's fiscal analyst said Wednesday that California's long-tattered budget is on the verge of producing surpluses. The improved outlook comes after voters approved two tax initiatives last week, and the California economy and housing market showed signs of perking up. State leaders have also cut programs in recent years.

It was the nonpartisan legislative analyst's most optimistic fiscal forecast since the dot-com boom 12 years ago. It shows a relatively small $1.9 billion deficit through June 2014 against a $97.7 billion general fund, followed by annual surpluses that grow beyond $9 billion in 2017-18.

"For the first time since about 2001, we actually show us being in the black," Legislative Analyst Mac Taylor said. "This is a dramatic turnaround."More at http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/15/4987739/californias-budget-shows-sign
s.html


The passage of Gov. Moonbeam's Proposition 30 was actually a lovely surprise; I'd thought, given people's normal resistance to raising taxes (and the futile battle Obama's had trying to raise them on those already swimming in money), and given the projections right up to the election, that it didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. Apparently California VOTERS aren't quite as stubbornly stupid as Congress...

Sooo, we'll be back in the black before long with any luck at all, not even CLOSE to a fiscal cliff, thank you.

Remember how Texas used to crow and laugh at us? Welllll, it seems, back in early 2011, our two states had slightly different reactions to our economies
Quote:


Texas Governor Rick Perry treated guests to a barbecue lunch paid for by a wealthy businessman. Supporters of California Governor Jerry Brown munched on hot dogs at a union-sponsored picnic.

The stark contrast in inaugural menus last month highlights the different approaches the two most populous U.S. states are taking to deal with massive budget deficits.

Perry, a Republican, campaigned on the strength of the Texas economy and made political hay of the fact the Lone Star state had avoided California's massive deficit, pegged at $25.4 billion through the upcoming budget year.

Now Texas faces a budget deficit estimated as high as $27 billion for the upcoming two-year cycle of 2012-2013. To close the gap, state legislators have proposed steep cuts in funding to education and welfare programs.More at http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/04/us-usa-deficits-states-idUST
RE71314420110204


Our educational system has been trashed, when it used to be one of the best in the world. But Texas has been in even worse shape:
Quote:

Murdock is the former state demographer in Texas. This month, he testified in a trial in which hundreds of Texas school districts are suing the state for failing in its constitutional obligation to adequately fund its schools.

The suit was prompted by the $5.4 billion the Legislature cut from public school funding and education grant programs last year. If that level of funding continues, Murdock warned, businesses will go elsewhere in search of skilled workers. Texas’s average household income, now about $66,000 a year, could shrink by $7,700 by 2050 which, of course, could cost the state many more billions – in taxes and prison and welfare costs – than it’s saving now.

Murdock, echoing parts of a forecast he first issued in 2003, also pointed out that if Texas, like California, now a majority-minority state, educated its poor and non-Hispanic white students to the same level as its Anglos, average household income would increase by $16,000 by 2050. “How well minority populations do in Texas is how well Texas will do,” he told the court.

In his earlier forecast, published in his 2003 book, The New Texas Challenge, Murdock provided a lot of other data, which would be applicable here as well. If the state educated its poor and brown and black kids to the same level as its non-Hispanic whites, its prison costs would be 60 percent lower; Medicaid costs 65 percent lower.

Alternatively, without substantial improvement, “Texas would have a population that not only will be poorer, less well educated and more in need for numerous state services than its present population but also less able to support such services. It would have a population that is likely to be less competitive (in the international market).”More at http://www.edsource.org/today/2012/texas-california-do-compete-in-fund
ing-race-to-the-bottom/22158


Some of our dumber Repubs thought Texas was just oh, so wonderful at one point and went there to "learn" from them:
Quote:

In the spring of 2011, a group of Californians led by Assemblyman Dan Logue, most of them Republicans but also including Lieut. Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, flew to Austin on what Logue called “an economic fact-finding mission” to learn about what some of them called “the Texas Miracle.” They didn’t notice the price of the “miracle.”

Part of it was sheer politics, including, no doubt, a subtle nudge for Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s presidential ambitions, but the talk was about other things: How Texas was creating jobs and snatching (enticing? stealing?) businesses from California and other states; about its friendly business climate.
Not much was said about its dismal state of health care, its high poverty rates, its miserable wage scales; its school funding; its pollution or a regressive tax structure under which the poor pay a larger share of their incomes than the rich. (The same is true in California, but not to the same degree.)

Nor has anyone taken much notice of the fact that for the past couple of years California has been creating jobs at a much higher rate than the nation as a whole, or that the link between “business climate” and unemployment rates is tenuous at best. Nevada, which has the nation’s third friendliest tax structure for business, according to the Tax Foundation, has the nation’s worst unemployment rate. Same


Sooo, no, we're not an earthquake away from being Nevada...far from it, in many, many ways other than budget. We'll see what happens, but the fact is that Gov. Moonbeam's got his finger on how to deal with this shit, while Gov. "Oops" is screwing the pooch. Moonbeam put it to the voters; the voters aren't as stupid as you think, so we're on our way to a surplus...a REAL surplus, made up of half revenue, half cuts, not just 100% screwing the population.

Thank you for this opportunity to clear things up. By the way, I believe you're in Ohio? Your darling Kasich ain't doin' a whole lot better than Gov. Oops:
Quote:

Wildly unpopular Republican Ohio governor John Kasich has a proposal: to cut $8 billion from his state's 2011-2013 budget. Despite plenty of controversy since he unveiled the plan in March, both the Republican-controlled state House and Senate have passed versions of it.

While Kasich is indeed facing a gaping budget hole (though some say he's exaggerating its size), many argue that the reforms unfairly punish lower-income Ohioans. Let's break down who's carrying the bulk of the proposed budget's burdens:


State workers: Local governments are probably the biggest losers in Kasich's budget, losing 50 percent of their funding by the second year of the plan. And prison workers worry that the provision to sell off Ohio's prisons will lead to layoffs. Altogether, a report by think tank Innovation Ohio estimates, the budget will cause a loss of 51,000 state jobs.

People who enjoy learning and/or teaching stuff: Education loses 11.5 percent of its current funding in the Kasich budget. According to the Ohio Education Association, that would mean firing 10,000 teachers. Cleveland schools are already planning to lay off at least 500 educators. At the university level, the cuts average 13 percent. Ohio State, one of the largest universities in the nation, soon will be presenting its plan to account for the deficit to its board. Spokeswoman Shelly Hoffman says the budget-balancing measures include early retirements, not filling vacancies, and raising tuition for the second year in a row.

People who go to libraries or whose houses catch on fire: Mike Gillis, communications director of the AFL-CIO, says the union's concerns with the budget are "too long to list," but that problem number one is "definitely the massive loss of public sector jobs." Those cuts won't just affect state workers. Library funding, for example, will be cut 5 percent, on top of a 30 percent cut since 2000, while demand for services has grown 23 percent in the same period. And since a lot of Ohio cities spend much of their funds on public safety, cuts to local governments mean big hits to fire and police departments. Like in Circleville, where Mayor Chuck Taylor is fretting about how to maintain the town's infrastructure. "We're cut to the bone now," he told the Columbus Dispatch. "I don't know what we are going to do. It's going to be devastating to us, to be honest."

Women who need an abortion: In a bizarre move—in that it's not meant to save money—the Senate slipped limits to abortion access into its version of the bill last week. One provision bans unincorporated (read: mostly rural) counties from covering abortion in their employee insurance plans. Another bans publicly funded hospitals from performing the procedure. That affects "pretty much all the public hospitals in the state," says Ohio NARAL's Kellie Copeland. "Some of them are the top hospitals in the state, who have top OB-GYNs who specialize in high-risk pregnancies." Exceptions will be made in cases of rape, incest, or when a woman's life is in danger. Republican lawmakers say these measures will keep taxpayer dollars from going toward abortions. Copeland says they don't, since taxpayer dollars are legally banned from going toward abortions in Ohio; procedures at public hospitals already have to be paid with private funds.More at http://www.motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2011/06/who-getting-screwed-oh
io-budget-cuts


Gee, looks like your state ain't doin' so great, either...

BookOn,"re-welcome" to you, too. I see you've "been here" since 2008, so I'm certainly not one to welcome you, but I do so anyway. As to Texas, my apologies; yes, Texas is a favorite whipping boy of many, I think in part at least because of the assininity of some of your politicians (Gov. Oops didn't do you any good recently, either...). I have problems with Texas legislators' attitudes in many ways, but I freely recognize they don't represent the PEOPLE of Texas for the most part. You've also missed all the times we've mentioned that the idjits down there don't represent everyone, Mike has made sure we understand that.

Rip, "civil and respectful to each other despite our political differences"? Be still my heart! Please, PLEASE stick around, we need far more of you! Ironically (or perhaps not), if we had more like you and Jong, this would be a whole different place, and one where I would feel privileged to be. I will hold a good thought! I don't feel nearly as "newbie" welcoming you back since I see you started here only five months before I arrived. I'm a firm believer in civility in debate, and others can tell you I've been bemoaning the lack thereof on here for ages, as well as sighing that we need more reasonable conservatives here to counteract the incredibly Unreasonable (and I might say unREASONING) ones we have. I'm deliciously looking forward to agreeing to disagree with you!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Nah, Rippys the real deal, I also recall his presence with some fondness.
I don't mind sensible, reasonable folk even if they're in opposition, it's the guanopsychotic that drive me up the wall, especially them dishonest about it.

And yeah verily, Bookie, there's jerkwads everywhere, we got some real "winners" up here in ole Dee-troit, you bet.
Don't expect me to be knockin anyone elses accent though, since I got appalacian hills partnered with 20's gangsterese goin on cause it covers a slight speech impediment - I take quite a bit of flak from a friend who speaks a ludicrous number of languages...
"You speak only ONE language, and you speak it BADLY!!"
Hehehehe.

-Frem

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:16 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ripwash is Hero's sockpuppet? Did you screw up keeping your personna straight, or did you respond to my welcome to Ripwash just to be an asshole?



So now people can only reply to posts directed specifically at them, or posts of general interest? That should cut down on the number of posts.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:25 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ripwash is Hero's sockpuppet? Did you screw up keeping your personna straight, or did you respond to my welcome to Ripwash just to be an asshole?



So now people can only reply to posts directed specifically at them, or posts of general interest? That should cut down on the number of posts.



Wow, the more you're discredited, the bigger an asshole you become. Now you're just completely inventing meaning to sell your horseshit.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:18 PM

OONJERAH


Quote Hero: "Welcome to your first meeting. The first step is
admitting you have a problem. Just remember take it one day
at a time."

Hero wants to share his 12-step program?
I'm not sure that's such a good endorsement, but I guess he
claims progress, not perfection.


======================
A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:36 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Hero wants to share his 12-step program?
I'm not sure that's such a good endorsement, but I guess he
claims progress, not perfection.
>


Liberals are the progressives, but I do admit to perfection.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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