REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In UK, Twitter, Facebook rants land some in jail

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Thursday, November 15, 2012 23:09
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1233
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Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

LONDON (AP) - One teenager made offensive comments about a murdered child on Twitter. Another young man wrote on Facebook that British soldiers should "go to hell." A third posted a picture of a burning paper poppy, symbol of remembrance of war dead.

All were arrested, two convicted, and one jailed _ and they're not the only ones. In Britain, hundreds of people are prosecuted each year for posts, tweets, texts and emails deemed menacing, indecent, offensive or obscene, and the number is growing as our online lives expand.

Lawyers say the mounting tally shows the problems of a legal system trying to regulate 21st century communications with 20th century laws. Civil libertarians say it is a threat to free speech in an age when the Internet gives everyone the power to be heard around the world.

"Fifty years ago someone would have made a really offensive comment in a public space and it would have been heard by relatively few people," said Mike Harris of free-speech group Index on Censorship. "Now someone posts a picture of a burning poppy on Facebook and potentially hundreds of thousands of people can see it.

"People take it upon themselves to report this offensive material to police, and suddenly you've got the criminalization of offensive speech."

Figures obtained by The Associated Press through a freedom of information request show a steadily rising tally of prosecutions in Britain for electronic communications _ phone calls, emails and social media posts _ that are "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character _ from 1,263 in 2009 to 1,843 in 2011. The number of convictions grew from 873 in 2009 to 1,286 last year.

Behind the figures are people _ mostly young, many teenagers _ who find that a glib online remark can have life-altering consequences.



Full article here: http://www.wtop.com/256/3120267/In-UK-Twitter-Facebook-rants-land-some
-in-jail


Thank you Mr. Madison.



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Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:54 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

LONDON (AP) - One teenager made offensive comments about a murdered child on Twitter. Another young man wrote on Facebook that British soldiers should "go to hell." A third posted a picture of a burning paper poppy, symbol of remembrance of war dead.

All were arrested, two convicted, and one jailed _ and they're not the only ones. In Britain, hundreds of people are prosecuted each year for posts, tweets, texts and emails deemed menacing, indecent, offensive or obscene, and the number is growing as our online lives expand.

Lawyers say the mounting tally shows the problems of a legal system trying to regulate 21st century communications with 20th century laws. Civil libertarians say it is a threat to free speech in an age when the Internet gives everyone the power to be heard around the world.

"Fifty years ago someone would have made a really offensive comment in a public space and it would have been heard by relatively few people," said Mike Harris of free-speech group Index on Censorship. "Now someone posts a picture of a burning poppy on Facebook and potentially hundreds of thousands of people can see it.

"People take it upon themselves to report this offensive material to police, and suddenly you've got the criminalization of offensive speech."

Figures obtained by The Associated Press through a freedom of information request show a steadily rising tally of prosecutions in Britain for electronic communications _ phone calls, emails and social media posts _ that are "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character _ from 1,263 in 2009 to 1,843 in 2011. The number of convictions grew from 873 in 2009 to 1,286 last year.

Behind the figures are people _ mostly young, many teenagers _ who find that a glib online remark can have life-altering consequences.



Full article here: http://www.wtop.com/256/3120267/In-UK-Twitter-Facebook-rants-land-some
-in-jail


Thank you Mr. Madison.





Hello,

It seems they don't have freedom of speech in that country.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:05 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


We do, it's just there are some limits.

I'm actually a bit dismayed that this isn't more controversial though - I thought our traditions of free speech were stronger than this.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:11 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
We do, it's just there are some limits.

I'm actually a bit dismayed that this isn't more controversial though - I thought our traditions of free speech were stronger than this.

It's not personal. It's just war.



Hello,

I thought so, too. Frankly, I used to think that the U.K. was a decent place despite areas of disagreement on weaponry and self defense.

But it looks like they are missing two of my favorite Constitutional protections and not just one of them. A burning poppy, really?

Perhaps one need not cast one's gaze all the way to Russia to find remarkable speech intolerance.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:14 AM

AGENTROUKA


I remember being appalled by this when I heard about the case involving comments about the murdered child. I still am.

It does not compute. At all. I understand being angry. I do not understand the justification for prosecution if no personally targeted insult/harassment is involved. A burning poppy image is enough to warrant arrest?

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, of course; KPO, I forgot you were British. While that only partially explains your civility, it explains it a bit.

As to this issue, I agree that it
Quote:

shows the problems of a legal system trying to regulate 21st century communications with 20th century laws.

I think it IS more a problem of
Quote:

"Fifty years ago someone would have made a really offensive comment in a public space and it would have been heard by relatively few people," said Mike Harris of free-speech group Index on Censorship. "Now someone posts a picture of a burning poppy on Facebook and potentially hundreds of thousands of people can see it."

Until and unless a legal system catches up with the times, this will continue to cause difficulties.

Aside from "one jailed" (JAILED??), it doesn't mention what the punishments are. Do you know, KPO, or any of our other Brits? While I might not find a MINOR fine offensive for such acts, anything beyond that would be unacceptable. I wouldn't have any problem, however, with a minor fine, as it seems to me for the most part the things I hear of having been posted are pretty disgusting. It wouldn't hurt if some hands were slapped, to maybe help make up for the lack of parental oversight/training which allows people to think the kind of sick shit I see on line is fine and dandy. I realize that's JUST my own opinion. I guess I'm saying people should be held responsible in SOME way for their lack of self-restraint. Just some small way; what I read here is appalling.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:19 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


That one at least, is proving controversial: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/12/arrested-poppy-bur
ning-beware-tyranny-decency


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:44 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Something similar happened here not so long ago, here in America! (insert disgusted face). One of the reasons I refuse to get a facebook, its where the government hangs out. I don't like the tattle tail aspect of this story the article says that people were reporting stuff to the coppers, thus tattle tailing. It would be one thing if the person was actually threatening someone, then I could see letting the cops know, but these don't sound like active threats.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I wouldn't have any problem, however, with a minor fine, as it seems to me for the most part the things I hear of having been posted are pretty disgusting. It wouldn't hurt if some hands were slapped, to maybe help make up for the lack of parental oversight/training which allows people to think the kind of sick shit I see on line is fine and dandy. I realize that's JUST my own opinion. I guess I'm saying people should be held responsible in SOME way for their lack of self-restraint. Just some small way; what I read here is appalling.


Hello,

Pardon me for saying so, but whether you're slapping hands or jailing people, this line of thinking is tyrannical and wrong.

It's essentially like making flag burning illegal.

Offensive speech is the only speech that needs protecting. Nobody goes after inoffensive speech.

I hate fair weather freedoms. If you want to be free, you're going to have to eat shit sometimes. And it's WORTH IT.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA



It's easy to defend freedoms used in ways you approve of.
The truth is what you do when they're used in ways you despise.

I stand up for it even when it burns, cause how can I ever expect anyone to stand for me (which they won't, I accept this) in any moral regard if I am a hypocrite about it ?

Sometimes, in order to add a nettle of freedom, the rose of human rights, to your collection, you have to grasp it firmly despite the stings and thorns.

-Frem

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:56 PM

OONJERAH


Quote AnthonyT: "Hello,

Pardon me for saying so, but whether you're slapping hands or
jailing people, this line of thinking is tyrannical and wrong.

It's essentially like making flag burning illegal.

Offensive speech is the only speech that needs protecting.
Nobody goes after inoffensive speech.

I hate fair weather freedoms. If you want to be free, you're
going to have to eat shit sometimes. And it's WORTH IT.

--Anthony"


Freedom isn't free. We have to keep fighting for it.

I think the USA still has laws against incitement to riot
and sedition.
Wiki: "In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and
organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend
toward insurrection against the established order."

deemed by the legal authority: could cover a lot of stuff.

People say a lot of very offensive stuff on the 'Net. Often I
find myself wishing I could censor them. Then I remember that
I've always been against censorship ... haven't I?


======================
A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:13 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I often imagine that people like the Westboro crowd are canaries in the coal mine. Watch the most hateful, vile speakers. See what happens to them.

It starts with them, because they are universally reviled. So they're easy.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
- H. L. Mencken


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Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:09 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Aside from "one jailed" (JAILED??), it doesn't mention what the punishments are. Do you know, KPO, or any of our other Brits? While I might not find a MINOR fine offensive for such acts, anything beyond that would be unacceptable. I wouldn't have any problem, however, with a minor fine, as it seems to me for the most part the things I hear of having been posted are pretty disgusting. It wouldn't hurt if some hands were slapped, to maybe help make up for the lack of parental oversight/training which allows people to think the kind of sick shit I see on line is fine and dandy. I realize that's JUST my own opinion. I guess I'm saying people should be held responsible in SOME way for their lack of self-restraint. Just some small way; what I read here is appalling.



To give you some info on the basis, here's what I looked up and posted back when I first came across it in the Brit Thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I looked up the law under which he was charged, the Communications Act of 2003, Section 127.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/contents

Quote:

127 Improper use of public electronic communications network

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or
(b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.
(2)A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,
(b)causes such a message to be sent; or
(c)persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.
(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both.
(4)Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to anything done in the course of providing a programme service (within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42)).







And like I was back then, I am exceedingly discomfitted by the idea that mere public sensitivity is the arbiter of what speech is punishable by jailtime.

I don't think all speech must be without legal consequences. Incitement to violence, hate speech, gross insult, slander, harassment... all things that are personally directed or contain the potential for actual harm to human beings and their livelihood should be held accountable.

But it should be in the hands of the harmed person to do that, not some anonymous "concerned" public that would see people in jail over disagreeing with remembrance day. Because they posted a picture.

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