REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The different brains of liberals and conservatives

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Monday, June 13, 2022 17:16
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Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:40 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Interesting...

Quote:

Darren Schreiber, a political neuroscientist at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, first performed brain scans on 82 people participating in a risky gambling task, one in which holding out for more money increases your possible rewards, but also your possible losses. Later, cross-referencing the findings with the participants' publicly available political party registration information, Schreiber noticed something astonishing: Republicans, when they took the same gambling risk, were activating a different part of the brain than Democrats.

Republicans were using the right amygdala, the center of the brain's threat response system. Democrats, in contrast, were using the insula, involved in internal monitoring of one's feelings
. Amazingly, Schreiber and his colleagues write that this test predicted 82.9 percent of the study subjects' political party choices—considerably better, they note, than a simple model that predicts your political party affiliation based on the affiliation of your parents.



http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/brain-difference-democrats
-republicans

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Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:27 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Humorous study.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 18, 2013 6:35 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Why humorous?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, February 18, 2013 7:14 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think there's more going on than just genetic material per se. The new research into 'epigenetics' is beginning to show how genes can be turned on or off based on experience, and that the pattern of which genes are turned on or off can be inherited.

The new research does indicate that people's political affiliation can alter their genetic functioning, thus altering brain functioning in large and easily measurable ways. It takes a lot of change to create a new fMRI-measurable pattern.

Well, this has been fun, watching little rappy drive himself off the cliff. And now there's a potential explanation as to how that happens.

On another train of thought, ""The two new studies described here are likely connected: It is hard not to infer that fear of outsiders or those different from you—along with greater fear dispositions in general—may be related to the role of amygdala, a brain structure that has been dubbed the "heart and soul of the fear system." The amygdala has been repeatedly implicated in politics. Indeed, Schreiber's research builds on prior brain studies: In a group of University College of London students, for instance, conservatives showed more gray matter in the right amygdala."

Or, to highlight the take-home observation of one of the studies: "In a group of University College of London students, for instance, conservatives showed more gray matter in the right amygdala."


But that doesn't indicate inheritance. It would be instructive to measure the amygdalas across countries - for example those of a representative population in Denmark or other country where the economy is supportive of people, and the US where the economy is fear-based in order to extract the greatest amount of profit.

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Monday, February 18, 2013 3:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Its humorous because the discussion that results from studies of differences in the brains of conservatives and liberals, even with a study like yours that doesn't draw blatent conclusions, are predictable, if this discussion goes on long enough people come in and say things that sound quite scientific, sometimes they are valid, but those people can't stick to that, they inherrantly start assigning judgement and value of varying kinds to those findings, then things start degrading because you know that people like to sound scientific, and again may have some validity in their findings, but their personal bias gets into the discussion, they make value judgements etc. and everything degrades into insults and accusations and everyone's hackles go up, and the people who provoke the most hackles seem to be the people who are trying to sound objective and removed. It has happened before and it will happen again. The patterns observed are what is humorous.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 18, 2013 3:52 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Its humorous because the discussion that results from studies of differences in the brains of conservatives and liberals, even with a study like yours that doesn't draw blatent conclusions, are predictable, if this discussion goes on long enough people come in and say things that sound quite scientific, sometimes they are valid, but those people can't stick to that, they inherrantly start assigning judgement and value of varying kinds to those findings, then things start degrading because you know that people like to sound scientific, and again may have some validity in their findings, but their personal bias gets into the discussion, they make value judgements etc. and everything degrades into insults and accusations and everyone's hackles go up, and the people who provoke the most hackles seem to be the people who are trying to sound objective and removed.


All in one sentence. Whew! *wipes sweat from forehead* Speaking of objective and removed... does this post represent such a voice?

More to the point: is it a liberal or conservative brain which constructs a paragraph like that?

/curious and /mischievous

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Monday, February 18, 2013 4:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


No, this post doesn't represent objective and removed, I'm the type of person who probably has never been objective or removed about anything in my life, verdict's still out on whether that's good or bad, its probably not all that good.

Its interesting, we've known each other for a while. I'm someone who is conservative about some things and more liberal about others. It depends on what we're discussing. As such I see myself as an independent, because I swing right on some things and left on others. I'm steriotypically conservative about gay marriage for instance, but I'm pretty liberal in regards to the fact that I feel that government's job includes funding social programs and making sure people have what they need in regards to disability services, mental health, etc. etc. I'm also very liberal about how all children _must have health insurance, period and its the government's job to make sure that happens. All children _must be given an education that is condusive to their needs and _must be given the oppertunity and ability to achieve to the best of their abilities, public school is absolutely namditory, period, and those schools must have the things they need to succede. So I'm all over the board really. Regarding fiscal conservativism and fiscal liberalism, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion there, money management beyond my personal spending choices isn't my forte, though maybe in some ways the government could use someone like that, who hasn't been indoctrinated either way regarding finance.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 18, 2013 5:32 PM

MAL4PREZ


Wow. Serious answer to a rather jack-ass question. Thank you for that. (I've had a long weekend and I'm feeling rather jack-ass-ish tonight, I admit it. Read all my posts with a half-assed, snarky tone.)

Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
No, this post doesn't represent objective and removed, I'm the type of person who probably has never been objective or removed about anything in my life, verdict's still out on whether that's good or bad, its probably not all that good.



I think you defy all judgement of "good" or "bad". You are what you are, and kudos to you for being true to yourself no matter how it might come off. Pray, continue.

Quote:

Its interesting, we've known each other for a while.
Well... "Known" is the rather limited in the internet sense. I'm not around a lot, and when I am I often show up just to argue. That not my RL way and if I met you in person I likely wouldn't raise two words against you. So I'm not clear on how well you might know me, and I make no claims about how well I know you.

Quote:

I'm someone who is conservative about some things and more liberal about others.


Aren't we all?

Quote:

It depends on what we're discussing. As such I see myself as an independent, because I swing right on some things and left on others. I'm steriotypically conservative about gay marriage for instance, but I'm pretty liberal in regards to the fact that I feel that government's job includes funding social programs and making sure people have what they need in regards to disability services, mental health, etc. etc. I'm also very liberal about how all children _must have health insurance, period and its the government's job to make sure that happens. All children _must be given an education that is condusive to their needs and _must be given the oppertunity and ability to achieve to the best of their abilities, public school is absolutely namditory, period, and those schools must have the things they need to succede. So I'm all over the board really. Regarding fiscal conservativism and fiscal liberalism, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion there, money management beyond my personal spending choices isn't my forte, though maybe in some ways the government could use someone like that, who hasn't been indoctrinated either way regarding finance.
Sounds like you're a real person. Your beliefs depend on the complexity of who you are and what you've experienced, not some limited political title you've allowed some tool to force on you.

Unlike others around here... ;)

Seriously, I just got amused today by this post from you and another by CTS in another thread about (loosely speaking) acceptance of facts and reality. The back-of-my-mind recollection of both of you is based on discussions in which facts went out the window, from my POV.

I can't confidently recall details on those discussions because my brain fails with all that (aspergers of a sort) and I don't want to bring up the specifics that I do recall because I don't want to fight. I think you're both decent.

But I think you both have a pretty pronounced blindnesses, and so I find these posts amusing.

Not much more to be said for the moment. Except that Rappy is still the dullest tool in the RWED toolbox.

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Monday, February 18, 2013 6:46 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't get aspergers vibes from you. You seem a decent sort. I do rather think I know quite a bit about you, because I liked your Fish Job story, it was one of the first things I reviewed over at fanfiction. I did not however fancy your Easy Tickets story for various reasons though so my reviews of your work did not continue. But because of that early exposure to you I pay attention when you post here. That being said I think I know a decent amount about you. The world would be surprised how much simple observation will tell one about a person, paying attention gets us far in life and knowing what's going on in it. I'm routinely surprised at how little attention the average person pays to those around them, I'm not referring to you here, because as you said you are not here that much. But there are many people here all the time who don't rmember things about their comrades here and its always surprising. I suppose the up side to it is that dim memories make for easy clear ups of misunderstandings.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 18, 2013 7:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Perhaps the anti-science vibe came from the discussion where you think the earth is 6000 years old (or thereabouts) and that there never were any rainbows before 'the flood' b/c the all-knowing bible failed to mention any before then.

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Monday, February 18, 2013 8:05 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


We're in a testy mood are we. What you just did by the way is classic Raptor to turn something someone says around on them, claiming they are doing the very thing they were complaining about, even though they clearly weren't because what you describe isn't the same thing as what I mentioned at all. I was actually referring to you when mentioning people who say things in these types of threads which have scientific validity (as in the brains of liberals and conservative show differences in activation of certain structures during certain tasks etc.) which is a valid statement based on the data, but then you like to make suppositions as to why those things are occurring, thinly, or not so thinly, veiling your biassed interpretation of those study results. I didn't want to say "Kiki is the one who always starts it" because that's rude. I just remember the last thread about a study of this kind and it is funny how predictable the whole shabang is. Apparently I just sped it up a notch. Oh well it would have happened anyway I suspect.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hmmm ... I was replying to Mal4, who mentioned that you seem to dismiss facts you dislike but couldn't remember where the impression came from. And I didn't say anything bad about you except to recollect an argument you your self made at length. If you think that’s a slam against you, maybe you shouldn't have made the argument.

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Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


As for this:

"... but then you like to make suppositions as to why those things are occurring, thinly, or not so thinly, veiling your biassed interpretation of those study results ..."

Are you referring to this?

"I think there's more going on than just genetic material per se. ..."

Perhaps you don't realize it, but there's a whole new branch of study - I even told you the name which is 'epigenetics' - that specifically looks at how the environment shapes genetic expression, sometimes over generations. This was in relation to the article which seemed to indicate that the differences were genetic material per se. My supposition, which is all I presented it as, was that epigenetics could be an alternative explanation.

This portion "The new research does indicate that people's political affiliation can alter their genetic functioning, thus altering brain functioning in large and easily measurable ways. It takes a lot of change to create a new fMRI-measurable pattern" merely restates what was in the article.

And this "Well, this has been fun, watching little rappy drive himself off the cliff. And now there's a potential explanation as to how that happens" is what I actually think. It's been in the past, and remains now, a mystery to me how it is that people like little rappy can turn such a blind eye to facts. There seems to be an actual mechanism at work according to this study.

As for this "In a group of University College of London students, for instance, conservatives showed more gray matter in the right amygdala" I commented on the implication the article made that these differences were inherited, simply by pointing out that nothing in that brief description indicated inheritance.

Then I went on to propose a study that might elucidate whether different societies have a different portion of people who test out one way or the other.

I'm curious which one of these things you find so objectionable.

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Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Wow. So involved in this thread, and I've yet to even post a reply. Until now.

1kiki - Your faulty perception seems to be the basis for your confusion about me.

Not driving anywhere near any cliffs, thank you.

And I don't in the least bit ignore facts. To the contrary, I am all about facts.

But much as Young Earth Creationists look for things to make their established belief valid, YOU do the same, to explain to yourself how I came to be the way YOU think I am.

It's really no great mystery... your view of me is simply wrong.


Shock, indignation, disbelief.... " no way! " , you'll tell yourself. " It can't be ! I HAVE to be right about Raptor, because I loathe him so damn much! He CAN'T be right !"

And there you have it. Forced refusal on your part to see things as they truly are. Because your own belief system won't allow it any other way. I have to be the 'broken' one, or otherwise, you'd have to admit to yourself that YOU are wrong.

Fat chance that'll ever happen,huh?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


There there little rappy. Soon mommy will come by and wipe away your tears and tell you what a great little boy you are.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:58 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Kiki.
In the post I responded to, which you say was meant for Mal4, you say "you" in a way that made me think, logically, that you were talking to me based on the things you were saying.

Regarding earlier things you've said that had scientific basis but which I thought you were lacing with thinly veiled agenda perspectives were in a prveious thread about the differences between conservative and liberal brains. I wasn't really referring to what you'd said here, because what you said here regarding those things actually sounded pretty good and unbiassed. Maybe it was unfair of me to take something that you did in another thread about this topic and assume you would do it again, I was harsh with you and I maybe shouldn't have been so. As for the thread where you did that I don't remember what it was called so I can't cite it for you. But I do suppose it was unfair to mention it before you'd done it here too. Maybe in this thread we just miscommunicated. If something is bothering me I'll try to be more articulately clear next time. :(

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 6:52 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I think you've got a point in your criticism of these kind of studies Riona - or at least the discussion that surrounds them. Liberals are all too ready to diagnose conservatism as a kind of mental illness, while not showing much humility about how their own political positions are arrived at. That's human nature I guess, and I don't doubt that sophisticated conservative science-types do exactly the same thing about liberals.

Having said that I made sure I highlighted a section of the study that (to me at least) was objective, and non-judgemental. Liberals and conservatives are given a gambling (non-political) task, and their brains light up differently. For me this is profoundly interesting; that's why I posted it.

P.S. I do actually think there's merit/significance to these scientific studies, and in particular their repeated finding that conservative brains are more fear driven. But that's not why I started the thread.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:22 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


And I don't in the least bit ignore facts. To the contrary, I am all about facts.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA!

No other comment is even needed. Just pure, unadulturated comedy.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I wasn't saying you were mean or bad for posting it KPO, just that it devolves in a predictable way, I guess though that I created a sort of self fulfilling prophecy here by being the one who went out on a limb here instead of letting everyone else do it. But hey, the thread took a different direction as a result, so that's alright with me.

I find gambling to be quite boring, I don't really get a rush or a thrill out of it. I don't even find it enjoyable, just kind of dull. I don't have a problem with it ethically, I just don't find it to be fulfilling in any way.

I'm also not someone who enjoys risk taking , I find it not worth the effort most of the time. I'm the sort of person who tends to play it safe. Maybe that means I'm boring.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
There there little rappy. Soon mommy will come by and wipe away your tears and tell you what a great little boy you are.




Promise ? That's something I'd dearly like to see happen.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 4:11 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
There there little rappy. Soon mommy will come by and wipe away your tears and tell you what a great little boy you are.




Promise ? That's something I'd dearly like to see happen.




That explians a lot.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, February 21, 2013 4:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
There there little rappy. Soon mommy will come by and wipe away your tears and tell you what a great little boy you are.




Promise ? That's something I'd dearly like to see happen.




That explians a lot.



Actually, it explains far more about you.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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