REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Knife attack near Houston, TX, @ Lone Star Community College

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, April 12, 2013 05:54
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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Over 12 people were stabbed Tuesday on the campus of Lone Star Community College campus in Cypress, Texas, after a male suspect reportedly used a small knife, ran from building to building and randomly attacked individuals along the way.

Harris Country Sheriff Adrian Garcia said in a press conference Tuesday afternoon that the suspect, described as a young white male, has been taken into custody.
Garcia said officers responded to the campus after receiving a call about a male "on the loose" stabbing people. He said it was not immediately clear what type of weapon was used.

"Some of the details in the call slip did indicate that students or faculty were actively responding to work to subdue this individual," Garcia said, describing the man as being about 21 years old and enrolled at the college. "So we're proud of those folks, but we're glad no one else is injured any more severely than they are."

Garcia said buildings still were being searched Tuesday afternoon and that police could not release any further information as the investigation was still active and ongoing.

But department spokesman Thomas Gilliland did confirm, "It was the same suspect going from building to building."

Garcia said of the 14 victims, 12 of the victims in all were hospitalized and two refused treatment. Witnesses reported seeing students with stab wounds to the neck.
Of the six victims who were taken to Memorial Hermann Texas Trauma Institute, two remained in critical condition as of 6 p.m. ET, while three were in good condition and one had been discharged.

Police got the initial report at 11:15 a.m. A suspect with a knife was reported on the sprawling campus on the Northwest side of Houston and there were reports of multiple stab victims. The school was placed on lockdown. The length of the attack is unclear, but the suspect was reportedly taken down by a student.

The suspect, who witnesses say is a white male who has been seen on campus carrying a stuffed animal, reportedly told the tackling student “I give, I give,” and was promptly arrested by police.

Police could not immediately verify that report.

Local reports say a student in a classroom used an X-ACTO knife and began to attack fellow students and ran out of the room.

One student said the attack sounded like a rock concert
and heard someone scream in pain. At that point, students went back into their classrooms, the student said.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/09/at-least-5-reportedly-stabbed-on-
lone-star-college-campus/#ixzz2Q0bph3Ys







Not sure how a knife attack could sound " like a rock concert " , least , not any of the ones I ever attended.

So, are we now going to go for a background checks on knife purchases ?

How long a waiting period will we have at every hardware store, art supply store, hunting supply, sports, grocery store, etc... where knives are sold ?




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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:27 PM

STORYMARK


Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.






Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:50 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.









So, you DON'T care about the victims ?

That figures.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:03 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I only see about 3 intelligent comments:

1. If it had been a gun, how many would have been DEAD, instead of hospitalized?

2. Faculty and staff worked to restrain the guy Would they have if it had been a gun?

3. I want to hear more about the severity of the wounds. I own several XACTO knives. I'd be surprised if many of the wounds needed more than first aid. But I want to wait until some details are in, and see.

E-T-A: 4th point: the TSA is going to let folks carrying knives back on airplanes, remember. AN XACTO knife with most of the blades you can put in it would pass under the new regs, less than 2 3/8 " long and 1/2" wide.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:13 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Last time somebody did this much damage with a razor knife, Rappy supported spending $6,000,000,000,000.00 and starting two different wars in retaliation.


By the way, how many died in this attack?

14 injured. Last time I checked, injured is a bit better than dead.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.









So, you DON'T care about the victims ?

That figures.




As you said yourself, "People die every day. :shrug:"


Except in this case, nobody died.






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I only see about 3 intelligent comments:

1. If it had been a gun, how many would have been DEAD, instead of hospitalized?




It wasn't.

Quote:



2. Faculty and staff worked to restrain the guy Would they have if it had been a gun?



Would they have had to if they had a gun themselves ?

Quote:


3. I want to hear more about the severity of the wounds. I own several XACTO knives. I'd be surprised if many of the wounds needed more than first aid. But I want to wait until some details are in, and see.

E-T-A: 4th point: the TSA is going to let folks carrying knives back on airplanes, remember. AN XACTO knife with most of the blades you can put in it would pass under the new regs, less than 2 3/8 " long and 1/2" wide.



Several were life flighted to area hospitals, though I've not heard of any updates. I'm guessing such immediate care isn't wasted on those who aren't really in need of attention.

As for the TSA... we didn't need this type of attack to know what damage such blades can do.


Quote:

Last time somebody did this much damage with a razor knife, Rappy supported spending $6,000,000,000,000.00 and starting two different wars in retaliation.


Another complete and total lie.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:39 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Last time somebody did this much damage with a razor knife, Rappy supported spending $6,000,000,000,000.00 and starting two different wars in retaliation.


By the way, how many died in this attack?

14 injured. Last time I checked, injured is a bit better than dead.



Latest report I saw, 4 were critical. 1 was a throat wound, another to the back of the head. Still same day, only hours since the incident. Way too soon, even for a " Film at eleven " story.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 3:29 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.









So, you DON'T care about the victims ?

That figures.



Poor addled raptard is seeing words that dont exist, yet again.

Then again, he never met a straw man he didn't like.





Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 3:34 PM

HERO


Solutions?

Nobody needs a background check to own or posess a sharp object. There needs to be a limit on pointy things and sharp edges. Where are the Democrats on this?

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 3:46 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Another desperate 'argument' from those of the right that seem unable to string a few logical thoughts together.

This denies ALL of the human history and its endeavour to create new and better weapons to gain supremacy over others. Those who had obsidian conquered the flint/wood weapons. Those who used bronze conquered obsidian. Iron over bronze. Firearms over iron. Etc etc etc.

But no, all weapons are the same according to the nuttier section of the right. We shouldn't restrict guns if we allow knives. If knives are as deadly as guns, then save yourself some money and get your army to carry them instead of all the expensive high tech weaponry that is currently sucking the money from your economy.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:57 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Latest report, CNN.com this morning: 2 victims still critical. Suspect is being held on 3 counts of " agrievated assault with a deadly weapon."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:15 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Thank God this crazy guy only used a knife. Imagine if he'd decided to use an assault weapon with high-capacity magazine...

I think we can all agree we'd be looking at more than '14 injured'. Food for thought. Good thread Auraptor.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well of COURSE the minute I heard this come over the news I knew Rap would try to put up some kind of idiotic thread, and his gun-bunny buddies would be right in there making equally idiotic remarks. Didn't everyone?

NewOld (NEAT to see you again!!) had the pertinent responses..."It wasn't" brought the first smile of the morning for it's irrelevance and idiocy, but that's about it. It's not a response. "Would they have had to if they had a gun themselves ?" is closer to a response, but then you get "Yeah, well, could they have gotten to their guns in time", "How many would have died while they were getting their guns" and all sorts of other silliness, and away we go: same argument, over and over.

Well said, Piz and KPO, and right on. The simple fact is that if this guy HAD had an assault rifle and high-capacity mag, we WOULDN'T be looking at 14 injured, we'd be counting dead. Rap's attempt at a point falls flat on its face.


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Why is everyone so quick to assume that nobody had a gun there?

Texas is pretty big on guns, as y'all may have heard.

Just because a gun wasn't used to subdue the guy doesn't mean there was nobody there with a gun. Remember VaTech, Columbine, Portland, Tucson? There were armed people at all those places, and they didn't stop anything.


Looks like this is yet another story of nobody with a gun stepping in to save the day.


And yes, if knives are as dangerous as guns, why do we send soldiers to war with guns? Knives would be cheaper, and according to the dipshits on the right, just as deadly.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:27 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Thank God this crazy guy only used a knife. Imagine if he'd decided to use an assault weapon with high-capacity magazine...


Yeah, but let's face it. Knife attacks are more common then assault rifle attacks.

Plus, he would not have passed the background check and guns are barred from campus...

In fact there was no legal means for him to buy, carry a gun onto school grounds, or fire the weapon into a room full of students. There were also no legal means for students to have a gun to protect themselves from either a shooting or a knife attack. Clearly the laws were totally and 100% effective in this case to prevent a shooting in self defense...no, what we need sharp object control.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:31 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yes, if knives are as dangerous as guns, why do we send soldiers to war with guns? Knives would be cheaper, and according to the dipshits on the right, just as deadly.


I note for the record that we send soldiers to war with both guns and knives.

Any Marine will tell you that a Marine with a knife is dangerous AND a Marine with a rifle is dangerous. That same Marine will also gladly point out that a Marine with nothing at all is dangerous because it's the Marine that is dangerous...rifles and knives are just tools.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Just ask the Marine who just shot and killed two unarmed Marines!

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

In fact there was no legal means for him to buy, carry a gun onto school grounds, or fire the weapon into a room full of students.




Wait a sec - are you suggesting that a criminal actually OBEYED the gun laws?


That kind of shatters yet another of those idiotic right-wing myths, doesn't it?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.





So, you DON'T care about the victims ?

That figures.



Poor addled raptard is seeing words that dont exist, yet again.

Then again, he never met a straw man he didn't like.



And the Left's war on people continues.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:39 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


It's a good thing they banned guns on campus, or the poor stabber might've gotten hurt.

Today a professor assaulted/grabbed my pants at my ankle during class, almost like he was looking for my ankle holster (an alleged felony since the 2nd Amendment does not exist in Amerika). Coincidence? This same instructor routinely punches students in the head during class, or beats then in the head with sticks, so that every Walmart employee has heard the story (in a large city). No student punches him back, of course, since self-defense is outlawed for adults on Commie college campus.




In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_(Firefly)


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:45 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
Always count on rappy to make the dumbest possible argument in any given situation.





So, you DON'T care about the victims ?

That figures.



Poor addled raptard is seeing words that dont exist, yet again.

Then again, he never met a straw man he didn't like.



And the Left's war on people continues.





Again with imagining things.

Maybe rappy had a stroke. A friend should check on him.

Oh, he doesn't have any? Poor boy.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:00 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I note for the record that we send soldiers to war with both guns and knives.

Any Marine will tell you that a Marine with a knife is dangerous AND a Marine with a rifle is dangerous. That same Marine will also gladly point out that a Marine with nothing at all is dangerous because it's the Marine that is dangerous...rifles and knives are just tools.

H



Marines don't need knives or guns, because son, they are Mericans. Mericans can go into battle and wrestle them goddam poor ruskies and Ayrabs and towelheaded folk into the ground with nothing more than their bare hands so long as they sing the star spangled banner, and they will defeat those poor ruskies and ayrabs and towelheads because they got god on their side. And Freedom. And Mom's home baked cookies to sustain them, Oh lordy yes. That's what you get when you get an army that is free. Thank you very much.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Maybe rappy had a stroke. A friend should check on him.

Oh, he doesn't have any? Poor boy.



No stroke, but plenty of friends.

** hugs **



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:24 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Wait a sec - are you suggesting that a criminal actually OBEYED the gun laws?


Actually I'm not saying that...wait as sec- you just realized more gun laws would not stop a criminal...

Ding, ding, ding...breakthru!

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:30 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
[Marines don't need knives or guns, because son, they are Mericans. Mericans can go into battle and wrestle them goddam poor ruskies and Ayrabs and towelheaded folk into the ground with nothing more than their bare hands so long as they sing the star spangled banner, and they will defeat those poor ruskies and ayrabs and towelheads because they got god on their side. And Freedom. And Mom's home baked cookies to sustain them, Oh lordy yes. That's what you get when you get an army that is free. Thank you very much.


You forgot the Nips and Nazis, but I suggest you read about Americans who could do just that very thing. Why, the only decent scrap we ever did have was against each other.

Start with Davy Crockett...killed 'him a bar when he was only three. Founght injuns, Mexicans, and Congressmen and is nice big part of America's gun culture (good old Betsy).

Edited to add: And it's apple pie, not cookies.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Wait a sec - are you suggesting that a criminal actually OBEYED the gun laws?


Actually I'm not saying that...wait as sec- you just realized more gun laws would not stop a criminal...

Ding, ding, ding...breakthru!

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



In the future, maybe the Left should put up 'Hate Free Zone' signs, so all their bases will be covered.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:35 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Everything Hero ever learnt, he learnt from the movies. No time for book learnin' in his home. Takes an age to read a book.


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero: That same Marine will also gladly point out that a Marine with nothing at all is dangerous because it's the Marine that is dangerous...rifles and knives are just tools.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



Fans of Buffy may remember how it was that Spike was able to kill not 1 but 2 vampire slayers. They both made the same basic mistake. In the heat of battle, they took their eye off Spike and reached for their weapon. But they forgot one very important thing...

THEY were weapon.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Rappy too. Sad to see posters who struggle with the whole fiction/reality thang.


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:19 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Why is everyone so quick to assume that nobody had a gun there?




If anyone there had one, why didn't he use it?

That's a far and away superior weapon against anybody with any knife.

Either slow reflexes, or incompetence, or bad training?

Just possibly, no safe opportunity.

But how about shouting, "I've got a gun!", or showing it, or perhaps, a warning shot? Instead, this hypothetical gun carrier stood back and let some REAL heroes subdue the guy with their bare hands.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:26 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:


In fact there was no legal means for him to buy, carry a gun onto school grounds, or fire the weapon into a room full of students. There were also no legal means for students to have a gun to protect themselves from either a shooting or a knife attack.





Is that really and truly the Law in the great he-man, pro-John Wayne America West, Republican state of TEXAS?

Then alla you right wing gun-rights folks had better give it up, put your hands up over your heads, and queue up to surrender your weapons, because us California liberal, efete wine-drinking snob Commies have ALREADY WON.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:28 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I note for the record that we send soldiers to war with both guns and knives.

Any Marine will tell you that a Marine with a knife is dangerous AND a Marine with a rifle is dangerous. That same Marine will also gladly point out that a Marine with nothing at all is dangerous because it's the Marine that is dangerous...rifles and knives are just tools.

H



Marines don't need knives or guns, because son, they are Mericans. Mericans can go into battle and wrestle them goddam poor ruskies and Ayrabs and towelheaded folk into the ground with nothing more than their bare hands so long as they sing the star spangled banner, and they will defeat those poor ruskies and ayrabs and towelheads because they got god on their side. And Freedom. And Mom's home baked cookies to sustain them, Oh lordy yes. That's what you get when you get an army that is free. Thank you very much.



Besides which, Hero stold most of his comment from Robert Heinlein, who wrote it many years ago.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Wait a sec - are you suggesting that a criminal actually OBEYED the gun laws?


Actually I'm not saying that...wait as sec- you just realized more gun laws would not stop a criminal...




No, you really did say that. You pointed out that he used a knife because he couldn't LEGALLY get a gun, so he didn't use a gun. And because he didn't use a gun, 14 people are injured who would far more likely be dead now if he'd had legal access to a gun.

I'm saying that common-sense gun laws would stop many, if not most, of these kinds of criminals from using the kinds of guns used at Sandy Hook and Aurora. And you've just agreed by saying that if there was no legal avenue for this guy to take a gun there, so he didn't.

He took a knife. And last time I checked, 14 injuries is a whole lot less tragic and deadly than 27 deaths. I know you conservatives aren't any good at math, but even you should be able to figure that math out.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Why is everyone so quick to assume that nobody had a gun there?




If anyone there had one, why didn't he use it?

That's a far and away superior weapon against anybody with any knife.

Either slow reflexes, or incompetence, or bad training?

Just possibly, no safe opportunity.

But how about shouting, "I've got a gun!", or showing it, or perhaps, a warning shot? Instead, this hypothetical gun carrier stood back and let some REAL heroes subdue the guy with their bare hands.




My bet is, if anyone there had a gun, he didn't use it for the same reason the others with guns didn't use them the day Reagan was shot, or Gabby Giffords, or the mall in Portland, or... well, you get the idea.

If it happens at all, it's such a vanishingly rare occurrence that it's statistically nearly nil. Something less than 1% of occurrences, according to the FBI.

For all the myth and fantasy of "Hero" and Wulfie and Rappy and their dreams of being the "good guy with the gun" who rides in and saves the day, only in less than 200 out of more than 30,000 gun deaths is the shooting ruled "justified".

In reality, things happen so quickly that anybody who had a chance to react and change things, never really got a chance to do so before it was all over.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I note for the record that we send soldiers to war with both guns and knives.

Any Marine will tell you that a Marine with a knife is dangerous AND a Marine with a rifle is dangerous. That same Marine will also gladly point out that a Marine with nothing at all is dangerous because it's the Marine that is dangerous...rifles and knives are just tools.

H



Marines don't need knives or guns, because son, they are Mericans. Mericans can go into battle and wrestle them goddam poor ruskies and Ayrabs and towelheaded folk into the ground with nothing more than their bare hands so long as they sing the star spangled banner, and they will defeat those poor ruskies and ayrabs and towelheads because they got god on their side. And Freedom. And Mom's home baked cookies to sustain them, Oh lordy yes. That's what you get when you get an army that is free. Thank you very much.



Besides which, Hero stold most of his comment from Robert Heinlein, who wrote it many years ago.




And "hero" has apparently been masturbating to it ever since.

He does love a man in uniform, after all.







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thanx NewOld; I didn't recognize the mentality, but it rang familiar, and now I know where. An equally militaristic, nationalistic mysogynist--difference was, he wrote honest fiction!

You're right; if the guy in Texas used a knife BECAUSE he couldn't get a gun, those are 14 RELATIVELY lucky people, and he just proved our point for us: "he would not have passed the background check and guns are barred from campus..." I'm assuming he knows that's true (I don't know Texas laws, either); going on the assumption he's right, hot DAMN, gun laws WORKED!!! It kept the attack to 14 injuries (no updates yet as to whether any died, so I'm crossing fingers) rather than 27 (or more) dead! A victory for the side of gun laws; thanx for the thread, Rap!

And they worked precisely like seat-belt laws and others; kept the damage to a minimum, which is all we can ever hope for. There will always be crazy people, there will always be violence, but oh, my, wouldn't it be great if we could keep it to just injuries like this more often?


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Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:44 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Anybody here actually have any real police street tactics training?

Given a police officer and 2 attackers, one with a knife, one with a gun, at the same time, what should an officer do?

1. Shoot whichever one is closest?

2. Hope his partner can help out, quick?

3. Get back in the car, radio for backup?

4. Get back in car, drive away, find a donut shop, hide out?

Anybody actually know what the training really is, and/or what a real street cop would actually do?

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:44 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


E-T-A:

opps sorry, slow response, double post

Anybody here actually have any real police street tactics training?

Given a police officer and 2 attackers, one with a knife, one with a gun, at the same time, what should an officer do?

1. Shoot whichever one is closest?

2. Hope his partner can help out, quick?

3. Get back in the car, radio for backup?

4. Get back in car, drive away, find a donut shop, hide out?

Anybody actually know what the training really is, and/or what a real street cop would actually do?

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:40 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Wait a sec - are you suggesting that a criminal actually OBEYED the gun laws?


Actually I'm not saying that...wait as sec- you just realized more gun laws would not stop a criminal...

Ding, ding, ding...breakthru!


Yeah I thought you were setting that trap. You're making assumptions about the reasoning behind restricting guns in places of education. I would suggest that it's not to stop armed criminals from entering. Have a think about it and see if you agree.

Quote:

Yeah, but let's face it. Knife attacks are more common then assault rifle attacks.

And snowball attacks are more common than knife attacks... should we worry about frequency of attacks, or the total damage they do?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap really screwed up, jumping on this one in hopes of making a point. It's all over the place now:
Quote:

I was having coffee with Marc Croes, a liberal friend of mine and a community activist. He said he received an e-mail from one of his conservative friends stating ,“I am waiting for the liberals to introduce knife control legislation!”

Opponents of gun control love to counter that if there are no guns, people will still find a way to affect their killing. That is absolutely true; however, the magnitude is that much less.

Most students were able to run away from the knife-wielding student. It is hard to outrun a bullet. Multiple students were able to position themselves in order to jump the attacker and subdue him. How many would have been shot before one could jump to subdue a gunman with multiple guns with extended magazines?

This Texas incident should be used as a catalyst to illustrate why sensible gun control is necessary. We cannot stop crazy people from attempting to do harm.

We cannot stop all people who are attacked either with a gun or other weapons from possibly dying. We can, however, pass laws that minimize that possibility while ensuring that those who want their constitutional right to bear arms are honored. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/10/dylan-quick-slashes-14-student
s-at-texas-lone-star-college-no-guns-no-deaths/




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Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It keeps coming, I'm reading it more and more:
Quote:

Earlier today, a Lone Star College student brought a knife, not a gun, onto the college’s CyFair campus and stabbed, but didn’t shoot, at least fourteen people.
....
...you can’t keep people from breaking the law, and that violent people will find a way to be violent, regardless of what weapons we ban or regulate.

And they’re right; there will always be nuts out there who want to hurt others.

But if this is the case, and we can’t do anything about violence in and of itself, certainly we should do what we can to prevent “violence” from becoming “gun violence.” The crime rate may not change, but the body count sure as hell will.

Of course, that didn’t stop gun extremists from claiming that today’s violence proves that we need more guns, not fewer. http://americablog.com/2013/04/texas-knife-attack-college-lone-star.ht
ml
attack by a knife-wielding student on a college campus near Houston on Tuesday left 14 people wounded – two of them seriously – and rekindled fears of yet another brazen daytime assault on students.

But such mass stabbings are uncommon, criminologists and experts say.

Since 1901, there have been only seven mass stabbings in a public place in the USA where four or more victims were killed, said Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written about mass murders. Most mass killings are carried out with firearms, he said.

"Mass stabbings are exceptionally rare," Duwe said. "Guns, or explosives, are generally more effective at killing large numbers of victims." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/09/knife-attacks-lon
e-star-college/2069347/
]
Explosives, of course, are far harder to get your hands on than guns...
Quote:

Do not get me wrong, of course knives are dangerous. But the danger of a knife in the hands of a trained professional, when compared to a novice shooter with a firearm, barely equates. Furthermore, the nature of a firearm is vastly different from that of a knife. Here are the six major reasons why knives are nothing like firearms and why the connections drawn between these two weapons ultimately fail.

1. Skill Required for Successful Operation: The skill required to slash and hack through a crowd of people is nowhere near the relative ease of doing so with a firearm.

2. Range of Motion: The amount of force that accompanies the strike of a blade directly relates to the amount of damage it is capable of producing. If the arm used to swing the knife is immobilized or restrained, it merely becomes a potential hazard. However, with a firearms and the magic of gunpowder, anything in front of the bullet is fair game for a target.

3. A Knife Does Not Know Its Master: A sharp blade does not discriminate. The risk for the attacker to sustain incidental injuries from their own weapon grows exponentially when switching from a firearm to a knife. It is easier to disarm a person with a knife than it is to disarm a shooter. A few people could mob a restrain a person with a knife, whereas this feat is not so easy when a person has a firearm. In fact, this knife attack ended when the assailant was confronted and then restrained by a group of students.

4. Distance and Range of Possible Targets: The target of a knife attack has to be relatively close, at least within an arm's length, and at maximum a few lunging steps.

5. Purpose in Design: The knife has potentially limitless applicability in daily life, whereas the same cannot be said for a firearm.

6. Just Look at History: War technology has always been about killing the enemy more effectively than they can kill you. The introduction of gunpowder into the battlefields of the world demonstrates this fatal and paramount difference. Everybody knows how it turns out for those who bring a knife to a gunfight. This is why early settlers of the Americas were able to wipe out the indigenous populations, tomahawks and bows and arrows stood no match to even the most primitive of firearms. Even as firearms technology advanced, the introduction of the machine gun again proved how new generations of firearms are ultimately more devastating in their effect.

Should people be free to own both firearms and knives in the United States? Yes. But the inherent danger attached to firearms, when used purposely for malice, outweigh any comparable effect that a knife may offer. I almost always have my pocketknife with me. I can use it as a screwdriver, to open boxes, and nearly any possibility I can imagine. Guns are not capable of achieving this universal utility. That is why the potential owners of firearms must face a higher level of scrutiny when attempting to own one. A weapon is not just a weapon; firearms are special.

The point of this article is not that firearms do not serve enough of a purpose to justify lawful ownership, nor is it a critique on why people wish to own firearms in the first place. More at http://www.policymic.com/articles/33921/lone-star-college-mass-stabbin
g-6-reasons-why-knives-are-not-as-deadly-as-guns
of the prevailing arguments that dominated the talk radio circuit in light of these stabbings has been about how this stabbing incident has improved upon the NRA's case against gun control, with the logic that suggests that knives have now exonerated guns by taking the spotlight off of firearms and proving that guns have company in the bloody house of murder. ??

Local gun-control advocates in East Arkansas are saying that this stabbing incident seriously erodes the substance of President Obama's gun control push, because it reinforces the old adage of people killing other people with or without guns, which begs the question that many conservatives and gun-rights advocates are already sarcastically asking: "Is it time to ban knives now?"

Is this what the country has come to now, where people are sitting around saying that they are happy that this incident was a stabbing and not a shooting, because it helps to bolster their chances of keeping their arsenals?

But in all honesty, can a knife really make the case for a gun? According to CNN, a student named Steven Maida joined with some other students, all of them apparently unarmed, and chased down Quick and tackled him to the ground until law enforcement arrived on the scene.

And although there are a lot of tough people out here, what would have been the odds that these same students would have pursued and chased down this suspect if he was wielding a semi-automatic assault weapon?

A gun is a gun, and a knife is a knife. The only difference is that one of them is a highly trained merchant of killing and the other is just capable of it.

Like it or not, guns are designed to do what they do, which is to destroy or seriously damage whatever is unfortunate enough to be caught in front of them, and the dynamics of that reality do not change whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut or a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.

Now 14 people getting stabbed at the Lone Star campus is certainly tragic, but if the suspect had chosen a gun instead of a knife it would almost be a guarantee that someone or some people would be dead right now.

And whether it’s a house, a school, or a public place, approximately 99.9 percent of the population would rather face Dylan Quick with a knife, as opposed to having to face Adam Lanza or James Holmes with a Bushmaster!

These points are not about shutting down the 2nd Amendment or banning guns or knives. This is about putting the gun where it belongs—in a class all by itself, to be treated accordingly. http://www.examiner.com/article/stabbing-spree-at-lone-star-college-le
aves-14-injured-and-raises-new-questions
]
It goes on and on. The only come back the right seems to have is "yeah, but if the STUDENTS had been armed..." The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. No nuance, no recognition of the fact that in reality we can't STOP these people from thinking, planning, and carrying out atrocities, but maybe if fewer of them could get their hands on guns, there might be LESS slaughter. You know, "less", not "none", which, no matter HOW we prepare, is impossible...

(ETA: You want a real laugh, read https://www.redstate.com/tomjeffersonsghost/2013/04/10/on-lone-star-co
llege-and-acceptable-murder-and-serious-injury
/ and try to figure out THEIR logic, which seems (I'm just guessing here) to be that "Yeah, well, the next time it might BE a gun, so you got no argument!"

The author snarks about how "the left" is happy if it's "just" a knife attack, that "knife attacks are fine with liberals because no one dies in a knife attack ever", and ends up with "If some violence and some destruction is acceptable then we’ve got far worse problems as a culture and a nation than a wide access to firearms". Makes me laugh--very, very sadly--he thinks "the left" finds "some violence and some destruction" acceptable, and that we don't KNOW we've got far worse problems than firearms access??? The "reasoning" in the article will keep you shaking your head; it would be amusing except for how pathetic it is.)

All in all, I think it's sad that the gun bunnies don't see that this incident doesn't improve their argument, it does nothing but show that crazy people with knives will probably do less damage than crazy people with guns....

Do TRY to bear in mind that my point is that we should try and limit the firepower of those intent on harm, not that we should take away people's guns.


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Thursday, April 11, 2013 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Thanx NewOld; I didn't recognize the mentality, but it rang familiar, and now I know where. An equally militaristic, nationalistic mysogynist--difference was, he wrote honest fiction!

You're right; if the guy in Texas used a knife BECAUSE he couldn't get a gun, those are 14 RELATIVELY lucky people, and he just proved our point for us: "he would not have passed the background check and guns are barred from campus..." I'm assuming he knows that's true (I don't know Texas laws, either); going on the assumption he's right, hot DAMN, gun laws WORKED!!! It kept the attack to 14 injuries (no updates yet as to whether any died, so I'm crossing fingers) rather than 27 (or more) dead! A victory for the side of gun laws; thanx for the thread, Rap!

And they worked precisely like seat-belt laws and others; kept the damage to a minimum, which is all we can ever hope for. There will always be crazy people, there will always be violence, but oh, my, wouldn't it be great if we could keep it to just injuries like this more often?





Yup, if someone has a car wreck and was wearing their seatbelt and still gets hurt, that's proof positive that seatbelt laws don't work at all and should be abolished.

This is the way the NRA is trying to debate this. And the morons on the right are only too happy to play "all-or-nothing" right along with them.

At the moment, guns aren't legal for concealed carry on campus in Texas. There are several laws in the legislature to reverse that, of course. Rick Perry supports guns on campus, but oddly enough, he doesn't seem to think guns in the Texas capitol would make that a safer place. In other words, he's happy for you to be surrounded by gun-wielding idiots, but he doesn't want to be. Unless they're on his payroll, of course. ;)



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, April 12, 2013 12:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Rappy too. Sad to see posters who struggle with the whole fiction/reality thang.




Forget about the whole life imitating art thing, huh?

How silly of me, making reference to a Joss Whedon show on a web site devoted to ... another Joss Whedon show.



And Niki, you've completely wrong, again.

The suspect said he had always fantasized about going on a stabbing spree. Not a "GUN shooting " spree.

Quote:


A student who told police he fantasized about stabbing people since he was eight years old was charged Tuesday with carrying out a building-to-building attack at a Texas community college that wounded at least 14 people, many of whom were stabbed in the face and neck, authorities said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/10/at-least-14-reportedly-stabbed-on
-lone-star-college-campus/#ixzz2QF8QbNDR






Given a choice of bringing a gun or a knife to a knife fight, which would YOU choose ?

I know my answer.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, April 12, 2013 5:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anyone know where I can get an emoticon for a broken record? Rap loves my emoticons so much, and I've needed one for him for so long now...sigh...

Yeah, Mike, amazing how they don't get it. Flies right over their head, the simple concept that keeping guns out of the hands of people who fantasize about killing just MIGHT be a good idea. Instead Rap focuses on how this guy fantasized about killing with a knife...like that has anything whatsoever to do with the debate? The fact is that if someone like him wanted to kill a bunch of people, and can easily get ahold of a gun with which to do it, they will kill/injure far more people than someone wielding a knife. Nobody's gonna stop crazies who want to kill people from TRYING, and I maintain that "good guys with guns" won't work, either--especially as statistics have shown over and over that they DO NOT--the debate is whether we should try some modest means of keeping guns away from these murderers, because they can do less damage with knives. That's the discussion I addressed; obviously he's addressinig something different...

Unclear on the concept...

Oh, well, I guess this will have to do for now...


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