REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

US gun homicides at 20-year low, surveys say

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Friday, May 10, 2013 02:30
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1985
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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 10:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Gun homicides in the United States have fallen sharply since peaking in 1993, two studies have found.

The federal Bureau of Justice Statistics said firearms-related homicides had dropped to 11,101 in 2011 from 18,253 - a reduction of 39%.

Meanwhile, the Pew Research Center found gun homicides per 100,000 people fell to 3.6% in 2010 from 7% in 1993.

The figures were released three weeks after US senators rejected proposals to extend background checks on gun sales.

President Barack Obama has campaigned for tighter firearms laws after 26 people died in a school shooting in Connecticut in December.

Held steady

Both reports found the rate of non-lethal crimes involving guns had also fallen significantly over that period.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics, an office of the justice department, found that non-fatal firearms crimes dropped by 69% from 1.5 million to 467,300 during the period under study.

However, the justice department study also suggested that the percentage of US homicides committed with a firearm had held steady at around 70% between 1993-2011.

Despite the drop, some 56% of Americans believe gun crime is higher than two decades ago and only 12% think it is lower, according to the Pew Reseach Center.

Pew also found that African Americans made up a disproportionate share of gun homicide victims - 55% in 2010, despite accounting for 13% of the overall population.

In 2010, white people were 25% of victims but 65% of the population, while Hispanics were 17% of victims and 16% of the population.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22443441

What's most interesting to me is this.

"Despite the drop, some 56% of Americans believe gun crime is higher than two decades ago and only 12% think it is lower, according to the Pew Reseach Center."

Looks like the media brainwashing is working.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



Looks like the media brainwashing is working.



That's not possible.

EVERYONE knows that, save for FOX, the MSM is fair, objective, and 100% unbiased, and would NEVER work to push an agenda. All they want to do is simply inform the public, as the people have a right to know. That's all. Honest.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:36 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Only 11,101 ? That's great, realy, ya know,.... great.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Only 11,101 ? That's great, realy, ya know,.... great.



Gotta wonder how many of those dead were illegals, caught up in Mexico's drug war.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:28 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
"Despite the drop, some 56% of Americans believe gun crime is higher than two decades ago and only 12% think it is lower, according to the Pew Reseach Center."

Looks like the media brainwashing is working.



Kinda like those who think illegal immigration, or crime from it, is on the rise....

There are suckers on both sides.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:30 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Only 11,101 ? That's great, realy, ya know,.... great.



Gotta wonder how many of those dead were illegals, caught up in Mexico's drug war.



Not many. Which you'd know if you had read it...




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How many of those who think gun crime is higher have rushed out and bought more and more guns?


The media brainwashing is working, indeed. It has you gun-bunnies shitting your pants in fear, in fact.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Also, did anything important regarding guns happen in around 1994? Something that lasted around ten years?

Could it have had ANY impact on the lowering of gun homicides? Any at all?


And where are the stats on gun suicide rates for the same time period?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Only 11,101 ? That's great, realy, ya know,.... great.



Gotta wonder how many of those dead were illegals, caught up in Mexico's drug war.



Not many. Which you'd know if you had read it...




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Well, in my resident county - approximately 80% of gun-related crime is criminal gangs that include a significant illegal alien component and/or drug related. Illegals are also heavily involved in marijuana growing and the resultant violent activities. Check out the book by John Nores, Cal. State Fish and Wildlife warden.

So yeah, illegals play a significant role in violent/gun crime as well as criminal gangs.

So let's punish the law-abiding citizens.





Do you have any legitimate cites for those figures, or did you just pull them out of thin air?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How many of those who think gun crime is higher have rushed out and bought more and more guns?



Probably not nearly as many who are rushing out to buy guns before this admin ( or the Left in general ) try to ban gun ownership, outright.

Quote:



The media brainwashing is working, indeed. It has you gun-bunnies shitting your pants in fear, in fact.




The only fact is that the Left want to take guns out of the hands of all law abiding citizens.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thank you for proving my point.

You have been completely brainwashed by the idiots on the right.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 4:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:

Lunacy in California knows no bounds.





Clearly. Why, just tonight some whacko from Kali was trying to tell me that "thugs" were going to be confiscating all their weapons or trying to "render firearms useless by several means".

Pure craziness, right there.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Also, did anything important regarding guns happen in around 1994? Something that lasted around ten years?
Could it have had ANY impact on the lowering of gun homicides? Any at all?



You mean the 'assault weapons' ban?

Considering that fewer people are killed each year with knives than with rifles of any kind, as has been noted here several times, I'd say not too much impact.

As a matter of fact, the report this article is based on http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf shows that the major decrease in firearms homicides was in handgun use, while all other firearms have stayed about the same since 1994.

Quote:

And where are the stats on gun suicide rates for the same time period?


Suicides by firearm went up about 16% between 1999 and 2010. Suicides overall for the same period went up 31%.

See the CDC's WISQARS Fatal Injury report site and you can filter all sorts of data on fatalities and their causes for 1999 through 2010.
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

And for 1981 through 1998
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate9.html




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, you get prize for first giggle of the morning. Thank you.

I'm giving up on this new guy. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I find his style a bit familiar, his arguments duplicates of what we always hear, he quotes from our favorite right winger's favorite sources, he hints he's from California, and I don't find that he was elsewhere first to be convincing. By now anyone wanting to create a sock puppet knows some of us check out newbies and if they appear, go straight to RWED and stay there, we wonder.

Maybe he's for real, maybe not. I'll wait until I see something that makes him an individual person; right now he's just an echo of "same old, same old". If I were to give in to paranoia, I would remember things Frem has said about infiltration and that Frem's not been around; well, if I cared enough to be paranoid about anonymous voices on an internet forum at all, which I don't. I'm just sick of the same arguments from the same people, and he's already become just another one of them. If he truly IS from California, that's mildly embarrassing, nothing more, I hope it's SOUTHERN California. Obviously he doesn't appreciate the state or all it's given to the nation and the world, and he's as paranoid about gun control as any of them.

As to the subject itself, I'm thrilled to hear about it, and I did, on the radio yesterday and was going to post about it this morning. I sincerely hope it continues.


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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 5:02 AM

BYTEMITE


That's a valid point, Niki, although there's a lot of your own feelings in there.

There are some indicators that could be coincidence here, but they could also point to Frem. My understanding is that Frem doesn't see much use in posting as a sock puppet, since he pretty much says what he thinks to people's faces and he's not at all apologetic about it.

But that doesn't mean he's not playing with us. Complicated guy that Frem.

I dunno though. There's similarities in the casual style, the Japan culture anime reference is there, but the swears and snark aren't. And while Frem has posted fringe looking websites before with blog links of articles, on gun control he more posts the original news article or studies about guns and regulations and crime rates.

I could ask him, though I'm not sure I'd get a straight answer. If he's playing he's not going to admit it, and if it's not him the answers going to be the same as if he's playing.

Until we get more of a sense of what Domokun's stances on the issues are, it'll be hard to tell if he's right wing or anarchist at the moment, and even if he is an alt, best to treat him like his own person. It's not like sockpuppets can actually make a difference in an argument. If a person needs a sock puppet to help them make an argument, they've already lost the debate.

EDIT: The specifics about California and the concern about illegal immigrant crime also point away from Frem.

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 9:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte: I'm not saying he's a sock puppet of Frem or anyone else, I'm just saying I have my reservations. It's just my opinion and my decision, no reflection on anyone else. I've had it with these people, with their "AmeriKa" and now "Kalifornia", their gun crap and all their "the left" bullshit; I don't need to talk to yet another one. He makes a valid point, maybe I'll respond. It's really not important, is it?


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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 10:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Whenever someone says someone might be a sockpuppet I have to talk it out, arguments in support and against. Because if I assume sockpuppet then I start to wonder how far the sockpuppetry goes and I eventually realize the entire internet is a hallucination resulting from blood loss.

Quote:

It's really not important, is it?


No, I guess not.

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 3:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Also, did anything important regarding guns happen in around 1994? Something that lasted around ten years?
Could it have had ANY impact on the lowering of gun homicides? Any at all?



You mean the 'assault weapons' ban?




So tell us all - did this "assault weapons ban" apply *ONLY* to rifles?

Quote:


Considering that fewer people are killed each year with knives than with rifles of any kind, as has been noted here several times, I'd say not too much impact.



Not sure that came out the way you intended.


Quote:


As a matter of fact, the report this article is based on http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf shows that the major decrease in firearms homicides was in handgun use, while all other firearms have stayed about the same since 1994.

Quote:

And where are the stats on gun suicide rates for the same time period?


Suicides by firearm went up about 16% between 1999 and 2010. Suicides overall for the same period went up 31%.

See the CDC's WISQARS Fatal Injury report site and you can filter all sorts of data on fatalities and their causes for 1999 through 2010.
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

And for 1981 through 1998
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate9.html







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:00 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


I'm giving up on this new guy. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I find his style a bit familiar, his arguments duplicates of what we always hear, he quotes from our favorite right winger's favorite sources, he hints he's from California, and I don't find that he was elsewhere first to be convincing.



I'll stick up for him a little bit. He posted a thread about Morena on the Watter's World TV show, where she was asked a right wing political question. She basically told the TV guy she was all dressed up to go to a party, not argue politics. I suggested that the material was appropriate for RWED, as well. So I sorta invited him here. And he has been active in some of the newbie episode discussion threads.

And hey, I gotta remember that when I first came here, way back in 2006, the first day I was here, I started a thread in the RWED, because something one of the right wingers posted there was SO DUMB, I hadda jump in.

E-T-A: Hell, this is one of the few sites on the 'Net I'm registered in- I don't believe in registration- I like to just drop in and use what's there. But I hadda register here to rerspond, and whatever it was pissed me off that bad.

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 5:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Anarchist? No - that's insane. Government has its place - and its important to keep an intact one


I know something hilarious you don't know. :P

If it is not yet clear, however, I am insane. That is a fair assessment.

Quote:

this person seems (in my opinion) closed-minded, and obviously very tired of the whole gun thing - yet seems to like to post about the gun issues, and get uppity with responses?


Ouch.

Well, most of us aren't going to flame you, but Niki probably will come back at you about that. You probably coulda guessed that though.

I'm only tolerant and open-minded seeming because I deliberately try to be irrelevant nowadays, that is if I'm posting. Most of the time I'm in a snit about something and sulking in a corner instead of talking and participating.

Plus I don't actually have any idea what to do about guns, regulations or less regulations or whatever. I don't really understand guns very well. It's like economics, I'm not good with that either. So I don't really know what to say in these conversations so I stay neutral.

Anyway, I respect all of the people on the board, and I really respect Frem, although he said some things that have him on the outs with some of the other board members. But don't worry too much about being compared to him.

Good luck around here, and welcome. I'll probably see you on the firefly chat, I cause less trouble over in those conversations.

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Wednesday, May 8, 2013 5:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Too bad US Govt Gun Homicides are at an all-time high in a dozen nations around the world, including Mexico, with millions murdered by the Amerikan Govt.

Too bad that pales in comparison to the 100-million Amerikans murdered by the US Govt since the US Supreme court legalized genocide of US citizens in 1973, by use of surgical weapons of mass destruction.

Now the FBI is threating to murder PirateNews. Where will this madness end?


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Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:58 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So tell us all - did this "assault weapons ban" apply *ONLY* to rifles?



Nope. Also large capacity magazines.

Of course, there were (and are) millions of those magazines already in private hands, and they don't tend to wear out much, so restricting the sale couldn't have much effect. Besides, do you have any statistics showing that an appreciable number of handgun murders required more than ten rounds?


Quote:

Quote:


Considering that fewer people are killed each year with knives than with rifles of any kind, as has been noted here several times, I'd say not too much impact.



Not sure that came out the way you intended.



True. Should'a been "more people" instead of "fewer people". But you knew what I meant, and can't refute it.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So tell us all - did this "assault weapons ban" apply *ONLY* to rifles?



Nope. Also large capacity magazines.

Of course, there were (and are) millions of those magazines already in private hands, and they don't tend to wear out much, so restricting the sale couldn't have much effect. Besides, do you have any statistics showing that an appreciable number of handgun murders required more than ten rounds?



They don't wear out, so restricting them couldn't have an effect.

Huh. Why are you against restricting them, again? It can't have any negative effect on shooters, right?

Do you have any statistics showing that an appreciable number of self-defense murders required more than ten rounds?

Quote:


Quote:

Quote:


Considering that fewer people are killed each year with knives than with rifles of any kind, as has been noted here several times, I'd say not too much impact.



Not sure that came out the way you intended.



True. Should'a been "more people" instead of "fewer people". But you knew what I meant, and can't refute it.




Got that tinfoil magical mind-reading cap on again?

I have your words to go by, and nothing else to tell me what you meant. If you can't make yourself understood, don't blame others for not understanding you.




Now, tell me - did you support going after Bin Laden after 9/11? Did you support anti-terrorism measures? Terrorists killed less than a tenth as many Americans as guns did that year, so clearly terrorism couldn't have much of an impact on us.

Right?


You seem hung up on whether something is having *enough* of an impact to make it worth trying to save American lives. When it comes to the issue of guns and their availability to seemingly everybody anywhere in this country, you seem to think nothing's worth doing because nothing will help.

Four dead in Benghazi couldn't really have an impact, could it? Far less than 27 dead in Newtown, if you're just doing the math. Hell, one dead border patrol agent on the border is even less of an impact than that!

So why do you want investigations into Fast-n-Furious or Benghazi, if there was such a tiny impact on our country or our people?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, May 10, 2013 2:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
They don't wear out, so restricting them couldn't have an effect.

Huh. Why are you against restricting them, again? It can't have any negative effect on shooters, right?



Because it's pointless. because it removes the focus from trying to get folks to stop killing each other.


Quote:

Do you have any statistics showing that an appreciable number of self-defense murders required more than ten rounds?


Self-defense murders? Definition, please.

Does your car really require more than 50 hp?

Quote:


Got that tinfoil magical mind-reading cap on again?



Okay. Then you can refute that more people are killed with knives than with rifles? I'm waiting.

Quote:

Now, tell me - did you support going after Bin Laden after 9/11? Did you support anti-terrorism measures? Terrorists killed less than a tenth as many Americans as guns did that year, so clearly terrorism couldn't have much of an impact on us.

Right?



So you're saying that guns have will and volition and kill people all by themselves to support their ideology, sort'a like those airliners flew into the WTC and Pentagon all by themselves?

Quote:

You seem hung up on whether something is having *enough* of an impact to make it worth trying to save American lives. When it comes to the issue of guns and their availability to seemingly everybody anywhere in this country, you seem to think nothing's worth doing because nothing will help.


And here's the "you want to do nothing" lie yet again. Yawn.

Quote:

Four dead in Benghazi couldn't really have an impact, could it? Far less than 27 dead in Newtown, if you're just doing the math. Hell, one dead border patrol agent on the border is even less of an impact than that!

So why do you want investigations into Fast-n-Furious or Benghazi, if there was such a tiny impact on our country or our people?



Mike, why don't you just go ahead and have this discussion with yourself, since what I actually say doesn't seem to penetrate your understanding. Must be easy for you to think you're making a point when you make up both sides of the conversation to fit your biases.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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