REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Associated Press condemns US telephone record seizure

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Thursday, May 16, 2013 18:39
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Tuesday, May 14, 2013 2:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

The Associated Press has described the US government's secret seizure of its journalists' telephone records as a "massive and unprecedented intrusion".

Chief executive Gary Pruitt said AP was told on Friday the justice department had gathered records of outgoing calls from more than 20 phone lines.

Mr Pruitt said there could be "no possible justification for such an overbroad collection".

The justice department has provided no explanation for the seizure.

However, officials have previously said the US Attorney's Office in the District of Columbia was conducting a criminal investigation into information contained in an AP story last year.

Published in May 2012, the article was about a CIA operation in Yemen that foiled an al-Qaeda plot to blow up a US-bound airplane.

Confidential sources

The story was embarrassing to the government, coming shortly after it had informed the public that there was nothing to suggest any such attack had been planned, says the BBC's David Willis in Washington.

Records for the phone numbers of five reporters and an editor who were involved in the AP story were among those obtained in April and May 2012.

AP said the seizure of records for general switchboard numbers and a fax line at its offices in New York, Hartford, in Connecticut, Washington DC and the House of Representatives was unusual and largely unprecedented.

"There can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications of the Associated Press and its reporters," Mr Pruitt wrote in a letter to US Attorney General Eric Holder.

"These records potentially reveal communications with confidential sources across all of the newsgathering activities undertaken by the AP during a two-month period, provide a road map to AP's newsgathering operations, and disclose information about AP's activities and operations that the government has no conceivable right to know."

It is not clear if the records seized included incoming calls or the duration of the calls. Nor is it clear whether a judge or grand jury approved the subpoenas.

News organisations are normally notified in advance if the government is seeking such information and are given time to negotiate.

The Obama administration has aggressively investigated disclosures of classified information to the media, bringing more cases against people suspected of leaking such material than any previous administration, our correspondent adds.

'Press intimidation'

Darrell Issa, the Republican chairman of the investigative House of Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee, criticised the seizure of records.

"They had an obligation to look for every other way to get it before they intruded on the freedom of the press," he told CNN.

Senator Patrick Leahy, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a statement emailed to AP: "I am very troubled by these allegations and want to hear the government's explanation."

The American Civil Liberties Union accused the Obama administration of "press intimidation".

In a statement, the US Attorney's Office in the District of Columbia insisted it took seriously its obligations to "follow all applicable laws, federal regulations, and Department of Justice policies".

"Those regulations require us to make every reasonable effort to obtain information through alternative means before even considering a subpoena for the phone records of a member of the media," it said.

"Because we value the freedom of the press, we are always careful and deliberative in seeking to strike the right balance between the public interest in the free flow of information and the public interest in the fair and effective administration of our criminal laws," it added.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22519776

I know that this story was buried in Jong's blitz, but I think it deserves more attention. When both the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the ACLU are troubled, seems there might be something going on.

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Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:10 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Well, thank you for starting this thread. I did have something to say about this subject, but I wasn't about to join the Jong/Rap circle jerk thread that they started. They were so busy low-fiveing each other, I didn't want to disturb them. I DO hope their courtship results in a nice marriage, now that it's becoming legal in more states...

According to the piece I heard on NPR, for the gov't to do this, they were either supposed to advise the subject in advance, or have it signed off by the Attorney General himself. If that's accurate, this one does go all the way into the Cabinet.

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Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The Obama administration has aggressively investigated disclosures of classified information to the media, bringing more cases against people suspected of leaking such material than any previous administration, our correspondent adds."

It's even worse than that. The Obama administration has prosecuted whistleblowers under the 1917 Espionage Act at twice the rate of all other administrations COMBINED.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/business/media/white-house-uses-espi
onage-act-to-pursue-leak-cases-media-equation.html?_r=0



A large network of surveillance cameras has been installed to monitor citizens' routine comings and goings under the program name Trapwire. "Former senior intelligence officials have created a detailed surveillance system more accurate than modern facial recognition technology—and have installed it across the U.S. under the radar of most Americans, according to emails hacked by Anonymous.
Every few seconds, data picked up at surveillance points in major cities and landmarks across the United States are recorded digitally on the spot, then encrypted and instantaneously delivered to a fortified central database center at an undisclosed location to be aggregated with other intelligence."

http://www.businessinsider.com/trapwire-everything-you-need-to-know-20
12-8


And the government records your communication to the tune of hundreds of millions of text messages, emails, and phone communications every day.

"Meanwhile, in a 2007-era whistleblower-report supporting a lawsuit filed against the federal government by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an expert witness suggested that the surveillance efforts were alive and well. The witness in a court deposition wrote that the NSA had worked with AT&T, Inc. (T), the second largest wireless carrier in the country on a program to "vacuum up" phone traffic, internet traffic, emails, and more without warrant.

In that report, a retired 22-year AT&T technician, Mark Klein, recalls "that the NSA set up a system that vacuumed up Internet and phone-call data from ordinary Americans with the cooperation of AT&T" and that "contrary to the government's depiction of its surveillance program as aimed at overseas terrorists . . . much of the data sent through AT&T to the NSA was purely domestic.""

http://www.dailytech.com/Former+FBI+Agent+All+Your+Communications+are+
Recorded+Government+Accessible/article31486.htm



This pattern isn't about national security, this is about government being able to control --- everyone.

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Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hey, we tried to warn y'all about the dangers of warrantless wiretaps and warrantless searches and seizures. "Paranoid" and "un-American" was what we got called for our troubles.

I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target.

And again I was called paranoid and reactionary.




So while I think this kind of crap is terrible, nobody here really has any right to call it unexpected. Think about it next time: if you wouldn't want your political opponents to have such a power, don't grant it to your political allies.

I can't make it any clearer for you.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, we tried to warn y'all about the dangers of warrantless wiretaps and warrantless searches and seizures. "Paranoid" and "un-American" was what we got called for our troubles.

I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target.

And again I was called paranoid and reactionary.




So while I think this kind of crap is terrible, nobody here really has any right to call it unexpected. Think about it next time: if you wouldn't want your political opponents to have such a power, don't grant it to your political allies.

I can't make it any clearer for you.




So.

"But Bush..."?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:49 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


And...

Quote:

Investigative reporter Carl Bernstein on Tuesday called the scandal involving the Department of Justice securing telephone records of Associated Press reporters and editors a "nuclear event."

"This is outrageous," Bernstein said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "It is totally inexcusable. This administration has been terrible on this subject from the beginning.

"The object of it is to intimidate people who talk to reporters," he said. "This was an accident waiting to become a nuclear event, and now it's happened."

The AP reported late Monday afternoon that the "Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press."

The organization was not told the reason for the seizure. But the timing and the specific journalistic targets strongly suggest they are related to a continuing government investigation into the leaking of information a year ago about the CIA's disruption of a Yemen-based terrorist plot to bomb an airliner, The New York Times reported.

The development represents the latest collision of news organizations and federal investigators over government efforts to prevent the disclosure of national security information, and it comes against a backdrop of an aggressive policy by the Obama administration to rein in leaks, according to The New York Times.

Under President Barack Obama, six current and former government officials have been indicted in leak-related cases, twice the number brought under all previous administrations combined.

"The numerical thing doesn't matter," said Bernstein, a former Washington Post reporter who, along with Bob Woodward, broke the Watergate scandal that brought down President Richard Nixon. "What matters is, this is a matter of policy. It is known to the president of the United States that this is the policy. To say that there was no knowledge, in quotes, specifically about this in the White House is nonsense."

"This is a policy matter, and this does go to the president and the people around him," he said. "The idea is to try and make an example of those people who talk to reporters, especially on national security matters. National security is always the false claim of administrations trying to hide things that people ought to know."

That the Justice Department sought records of phone calls made over congressional phone lines could also raise a separation of powers issue between the administration and legislative branches of government.

"The First Amendment is first for a reason," House Speaker John Boehner spokesman Michael Steel tells Newsmax. "If the Obama administration is going after reporters' phone records, they better have a damned good explanation."




http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/carl-bernstein-ap-scandal/2013/05/14/
id/504370#ixzz2TMezjeVb




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 3:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, we tried to warn y'all about the dangers of warrantless wiretaps and warrantless searches and seizures. "Paranoid" and "un-American" was what we got called for our troubles.

I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target.

And again I was called paranoid and reactionary.




So while I think this kind of crap is terrible, nobody here really has any right to call it unexpected. Think about it next time: if you wouldn't want your political opponents to have such a power, don't grant it to your political allies.

I can't make it any clearer for you.




So.

"But Bush..."?






Care to show me where I said that?


For someone who constantly bitches about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do put words in other peoples' mouths an awful lot. Might want to see to that.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Care to show me where I said that?



"I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target."

So.

But Bush asked for these powers that the current administration is abusing.

Actually, your referencing warrantless wiretaps and search and seizure under the Patriot Act or other such laws isn't really apt, since the opinion of pretty much everybody - Left, Right, and center - is that the seizure of the AP phone records is illegal under any present law.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:53 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


bump

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 1:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Care to show me where I said that?


For someone who constantly bitches about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do put words in other peoples' mouths an awful lot. Might want to see to that.





My dear boy... who ever said I was quoting you?

Since you're not too bright, I'll s'plain it to ya.

I was commenting on the standard, Left wing response to EVERYTHING that Obama does wrong, and some how it ends up being Bush's fault.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And the standard rightard answer is that it's NEVER his fault.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Care to show me where I said that?


For someone who constantly bitches about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do put words in other peoples' mouths an awful lot. Might want to see to that.





My dear boy... who ever said I was quoting you?

Since you're not too bright, I'll s'plain it to ya.

I was commenting on the standard, Left wing response to EVERYTHING that Obama does wrong, and some how it ends up being Bush's fault.






Huh. That's a new one. I specifically responded to Geezer, and Rappy pipes up to answer as if he's Geezer.

They seem to be joined at the... well, hips are probably involved, at least... but Rappy answering a reply where I quoted Geezer and asked a direct question, there's something you don't see every day.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Care to show me where I said that?



"I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target."

So.

But Bush asked for these powers that the current administration is abusing.

Actually, your referencing warrantless wiretaps and search and seizure under the Patriot Act or other such laws isn't really apt, since the opinion of pretty much everybody - Left, Right, and center - is that the seizure of the AP phone records is illegal under any present law.




"You didn't" would have sufficed. Especially since I didn't.


By the way, can you cite for us the specific law(s) you think this is against? It's against some of the DOJ's *regulations*, but those aren't really laws, are they?


And what about the fact that Republicans demanded an investigation into the AP and how they were getting their leaked info? Seems now that they've been investigated, the GOP wants to try to cook up a scandal about it.

http://www.politicususa.com/31-republicans-demanded-investigation-ap-l
eaks-explanation.html


Quote:

In the lead up to the 2012 elections, Republicans were upset that the Obama administration was getting such great press on national security issues, so they pretended to be upset about the national security implications of the leaks to the AP.

In the spring of 2012, 31 Republicans called for AG Eric Holder to investigate the leaks after they accused the Obama administration of leaking stories about his toughness on terrorism to the press in order to win an election.

The Hill reported on the Republicans’ letter:

“The numerous national-security leaks reportedly originating out of the executive branch in recent months have been stunning,” they (Republicans) wrote to Holder.
“If true, they reveal details of some of our nation’s most highly classified and sensitive military and intelligence matters, thereby risking our national security, as well as the lives of American citizens and our allies. If there were ever a case requiring an outside special counsel with bipartisan acceptance and widespread public trust, this is it,” they wrote.

Republicans had really hoped the AP scandal would stick, especially with Benghazi Gate backfiring on them in numerous ways, not the least of which was the revelation on Tuesday that ABC had not actually read the emails the Republicans were using to indict the White House, and in fact the actual email said something quite different than was reported. It turned out that the email had been edited in the way it was reported so as to deliberately make Obama/Clinton look bad.

However, the AP scandal is also dying because there is no scandal. The phone records of the AP reporters were obtained legally (I’m not condoning what many see as the chilling of the press, I’m simply pointing out that it was done legally).




So the GOP wanted an investigation, right up until they got one. Why does that sound familiar? Hmmmm...




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, we tried to warn y'all about the dangers of warrantless wiretaps and warrantless searches and seizures. "Paranoid" and "un-American" was what we got called for our troubles.

I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target.

And again I was called paranoid and reactionary.




So while I think this kind of crap is terrible, nobody here really has any right to call it unexpected. Think about it next time: if you wouldn't want your political opponents to have such a power, don't grant it to your political allies.

I can't make it any clearer for you.




So.

"But Bush..."?






Care to show me where I said that?


For someone who constantly bitches about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do put words in other peoples' mouths an awful lot. Might want to see to that.




Larn how to post quotes then, moran.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Moran? Who's Moran?



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Moran? Who's Moran?




*yawn*


See? This is how bored I get toying w/ some on this forum.


It's become less than fun.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Geezer

Kwicko has a point. He didn't blame Bush for starting this - even though it's a historical fact that he did. He blamed YOU all for condoning something which was clearly a threat to personal liberty and a free press. You were OK with it then, because you were OK with Bush having that power. You're not OK with it now b/c, when you get down to the nitty gritty, it's a democrat, and worse, a half-black man who's doing it.

As I recall, the only people who were complaining back then were democrats. And we are still complaining now.

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



*yawn*

See? This is how bored I get toying w/ some on this forum.

It's become less than fun.


Yes, it's so boring for you you just HAD to post about it. My guess is that you'll be replying in three ... two ...



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:17 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Care to show me where I said that?



"I even argued that the reason I didn't want Bush to have these unprecedented powers was that someday he would be replaced by someone else, and who knew who that guy might decide to target."

So.

But Bush asked for these powers that the current administration is abusing.

Actually, your referencing warrantless wiretaps and search and seizure under the Patriot Act or other such laws isn't really apt, since the opinion of pretty much everybody - Left, Right, and center - is that the seizure of the AP phone records is illegal under any present law.




"You didn't" would have sufficed. Especially since I didn't.





Considering I pointed out exactly where you did, that's a pretty weak argument.


Quote:

By the way, can you cite for us the specific law(s) you think this is against? It's against some of the DOJ's *regulations*, but those aren't really laws, are they?


Well, the First and Fourth Amendments to the constitution come to mind, as those are being mentioned quite a lot in connection to this case. If you'd been paying attention instead of trying to make excuses and deflect blame, you'd know that.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer

Kwicko has a point. He didn't blame Bush for starting this - even though it's a historical fact that he did. He blamed YOU all for condoning something which was clearly a threat to personal liberty and a free press. You were OK with it then, because you were OK with Bush having that power. You're not OK with it now b/c, when you get down to the nitty gritty, it's a democrat, and worse, a half-black man who's doing it.

As I recall, the only people who were complaining back then were democrats. And we are still complaining now.



Show me where the DOJ actions against the AP were legal under the Patriot Act or other Bush-era laws. Please cite the specific regulations.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Geezer

Did you not read Kwicko's post? Oh, that's right. Never mind.

It was this sentence - "The phone records of the AP reporters were obtained legally (I’m not condoning what many see as the chilling of the press, I’m simply pointing out that it was done legally)."

Taking that quote back to Bernie Sanders' website, and clicking on the link on the phrase 'obtained legally' got me to this -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/under-sweeping-s
ubpoenas-justice-department-obtained-ap-phone-records-%20in-leak-investigation/2013/05/13/11d1bb82-bc11-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html
"Under sweeping subpoenas, Justice Department obtained AP phone records in leak investigation".

Since I can't do your reading for you, you'll just have to read it yourself.

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:01 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer

Did you not read Kwicko's post? Oh, that's right. Never mind.

It was this sentence - "The phone records of the AP reporters were obtained legally (I’m not condoning what many see as the chilling of the press, I’m simply pointing out that it was done legally)."

Taking that quote back to Bernie Sanders' website, and clicking on the link on the phrase 'obtained legally' got me to this -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/under-sweeping-s
ubpoenas-justice-department-obtained-ap-phone-records-%20in-leak-investigation/2013/05/13/11d1bb82-bc11-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html
"Under sweeping subpoenas, Justice Department obtained AP phone records in leak investigation".



Wow. A blogger wanting to blame the Republicans says the seizures were legal, and there were subpoenas. And the government has never illegally obtained subpoenas?




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:27 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer

Did you not read Kwicko's post? Oh, that's right. Never mind.

It was this sentence - "The phone records of the AP reporters were obtained legally (I’m not condoning what many see as the chilling of the press, I’m simply pointing out that it was done legally)."

Taking that quote back to Bernie Sanders' website, and clicking on the link on the phrase 'obtained legally' got me to this -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/under-sweeping-s
ubpoenas-justice-department-obtained-ap-phone-records-%20in-leak-investigation/2013/05/13/11d1bb82-bc11-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html
"Under sweeping subpoenas, Justice Department obtained AP phone records in leak investigation".

Since I can't do your reading for you, you'll just have to read it yourself.



Hey, I just checked this. The weblink, and the Headline, both say under subpoena.
I read the entire article TWICE, once carefully, and I couldn't find that anywhere in the body of the article itself. The weblink is not the article. Neither is the headline. the article should contain details of where and when the subpoenas were requested , and when approved., by which judge.

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


This, on page two:

The office of the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia on Monday released a statement saying it is not required to notify a media organization in advance of issuing such subpoenas if doing so “would pose a substantial threat to the integrity of the investigation.”

“We take seriously our obligations to follow all applicable laws, federal regulations, and Department of Justice policies when issuing subpoenas for phone records of media organizations,” said a statement from Bill Miller, spokesman for the office. “Those regulations require us to make every reasonable effort to obtain information through alternative means before even considering a subpoena for the phone records of a member of the media.”

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey old fool!

Let me go though your reply on each item:

"A blogger wanting to blame the Republicans says the seizures were legal ..."

The author is Sari Horwitz. It says so right on the webpage, where the author's name is usually written, in easy to read font. And who is Sari Horowitz? "Sari Horwitz is a three-time Pulitzer-Prize winning member of The Washington Post's investigation unit. A reporter for The Washington Post since 1984, she has covered crime, homeland security, federal law enforcement, education, social services, and the Department of Justice." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari_Horwitz Not 'some blogger', and not a partisan hack of the kind you seem to trust most for your information.

"And the government has never illegally obtained subpoenas."

Quick, how many cases can you name where the >>> Federal Justice Department <<< has ILLEGALLY obtained warrants ... yeah, I thought so.

Just because you're dishonest and senile doesn't mean you get a pass from me. Next time you need to take a dump, refrain from doing it here.




BTW - just b/c it looks like this was done legally doesn’t mean I condone it. If it was legal, we need to work on changing the laws.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 6:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Huh. That's a new one. I specifically responded to Geezer, and Rappy pipes up to answer as if he's Geezer.

They seem to be joined at the... well, hips are probably involved, at least... but Rappy answering a reply where I quoted Geezer and asked a direct question, there's something you don't see every day.

Well, maybe we DO see it every day! Or at least once a week. I've seen Geezer step in when rappy was taking a beating.

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Thursday, May 16, 2013 6:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But, let's get back to the topic at-hand. Since the rightwing here seems to like to spend a lot of time tilting that what they BELIEVE to be left-wing viewpoints, here is a real left-wing response to Obama's civil rights record:

Quote:

Due to the controversies over the IRS and (especially) the DOJ's attack on AP's news gathering process, media outlets have suddenly decided that President Obama has a very poor record on civil liberties, transparency, press freedoms, and a whole variety of other issues on which he based his first campaign. The first two paragraphs of this Washington Post article from yesterday, expressed in tones of recent epiphany, made me laugh audibly:

"President Obama, a former constitutional law lecturer who came to office pledging renewed respect for civil liberties, is today running an administration at odds with his résumé and preelection promises.

"The Justice Department's collection of journalists' phone records and the Internal Revenue Service's targeting of conservative groups have challenged Obama's credibility as a champion of civil liberties - and as a president who would heal the country from damage done by his predecessor."

You don't say! The Washington Post's breaking news here is only about four years late. Back in mid-2010, ACLU executive director Anthony Romero, speaking about Obama's civil liberties record at a progressive conference, put it this way: "I'm disgusted with this president." In the spirit of optimism, one can adopt a "better-late-than-never" outlook regarding this newfound media awakening.


http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/276-74/17457-now-the-corporate
-media-understands-obamas-civil-liberties-record


It seems the right wing and the left wing have reached an accord on civil liberties. The question is, will the right-wing go back to rolling over for any right-wing authority figure who abuses civil rights like Obama does?

What about you, Geezer? Do you have lines in the sand that nobody can cross, whether they are Democractic or Republican, civilian or military, American or foreigner?
What abou

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