REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Lesbians

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, June 8, 2013 00:07
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Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



They're different.

Quote:

After Girl Expelled From High School and Charged Over Lesbian Relationship, Anonymous Goes on the Offensive


When Florida high school student Kaitlyn Hunt was a senior in high school, she began dating a 15-year-old teammate on her school's girls' basketball team.* Kaitlyn's parents say the parents of the 15-year-old never complained to them about the (consensual) relationship. But halfway through the school year, the younger girl's parents had her arrested. She was charged with a felony—"lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12-16 years old." The girl's parents also succeeded in getting her expelled from school by appealing to the school board after the school and a judge refused to grant their request, according to Kaitlyn's mother, Kelly Hunt Smith.

"That is absolutely ludicrous," Smith wrote on Facebook last Friday in a widely shared plea for help. "We need justice in this situation, not to feed into these parents' hates and insanity."

Enter Anonymous, the global hacker collective, which recently has raised eyebrows by pursuing justice for rape victims. In this case, some of the same Anonymous members are rallying behind a girl they feel has been wrongly accused of sexual misconduct. On Saturday, they launched the twitter hashtag #OPJustice4Kaitlyn, and a press release that begins: "Greetings, Bigots."

"The truth is, Kaitlyn Hunt is a bright young girl who was involved in a consensual, same-sex relationship while both she and her partner were minors," reads the release.* "She has a big future ahead of her and there are people, thousands of people in fact, that have no intention of allowing you to ruin it with your rotten selective enforcement."




And should be treated as such.

Agree ? Yes or no. And why.



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Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Hard to say.

Equal rights is equal rights.

Current law in Florida considers sex, even consentual sex, with a minor to be statutory rape (or as they style it, "lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12-16 years old."). Doesn't matter whether it's girl/boy, girl/girl, or boy/boy.

If both are consenting and are adult enough to understand consequences, I personally have no problem with it, but they were probably aware they were breaking the law, and should have forseen that there might also be consequences from that.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



But lesbian sex is different than heterosexual sex. No chance for a young girl to get knocked up, for one thing. And Niki will correct me if I'm wrong, but STD's aren't as likely to be transmitted between lesbians as they are male / female or male/male.

But the point here is, yes, taking liberties w/ a younger person is wrong. But should it be treated the same as were the youth a male ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:57 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak to the laws of Florida. But just as an individual I think it's dangerous and wrong for children of these ages to be engaging in that kind of activity. I don't think making criminals of anyone in this case is the answer though.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:59 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:

But lesbian sex is different than heterosexual sex. No chance for a young girl to get knocked up, for one thing. And Niki will correct me if I'm wrong, but STD's aren't as likely to be transmitted between lesbians as they are male / female or male/male.

But the point here is, yes, taking liberties w/ a younger person is wrong. But should it be treated the same as were the youth a male ?



As noted above, equal rights. Also equal responsibilities. I'd suspect that the penalty for statutory rape wouldn't change if the older person was a man with a vasectomy.

Perhaps the laws need to be changed, but folks having sex with minors need to be aware that, consentual or not, it's still illegal now (in Florida, any way), and that they can get in trouble.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak to the laws of Florida. But just as an individual I think it's dangerous and wrong for children of these ages to be engaging in that kind of activity. I don't think making criminals of anyone in this case is the answer though.



Was gonna post this in another thread, but since you brought it up...

Apparently, the Federal Govt has no problems w/ kids having sex.

Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal says no sex questions for kids


Quote:

ATLANTA (WXIA) -- The state of Georgia has passed on nearly $2 million of federal funding, after the governor declined to include questions about sex on a survey to teenagers in public schools.

Annually, the Centers For Disease Control provides a Youth Risk Behavior Survey to middle schools and high schools nationwide.

On each survey there are a series of questions about students' sexual history.

Governor Nathan Deal has opted to leave them out. According to a spokesperson, Brian Robinson, the governor was not comfortable asking 12 year old students about sexual partners and condom use.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:18 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


The problem is not with hot young lesbians making out. Especially if I help.



The problem is man-dykes trying to castrate all men, rape millions of sheeple and destroy the human race.










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Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:15 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



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Friday, May 31, 2013 9:05 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:




Is that Julie Newmar or Lee Meriwether?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 1:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



From this angle, looks like Lee Meriwether. That's my guess.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, May 31, 2013 2:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


IS there evidence that they had sex? Kids date all the time at very early ages, in my elderly view. Dating doens't always mean sex.

And again, speaking from my own country, even if two 15year olds engaged in sexual activity it is very unlikely that the law would be involved. Kids have sex all the time, whatever you think of it, should it be a legal matter?

The legal issue tends to arise when there is an age difference, 18 and 15 for example. In such cases, I have seen the law is not often involved. Over 21 and 15 another matter altogether.

If my son was having sex with someone else at 15 who was similar age, I sure wouldn't be calling the police or asking for expulsion.

Or have I missed something?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 2:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

If my son was having sex with someone else at 15 who was similar age, I sure wouldn't be calling the police or asking for expulsion.

Or have I missed something?



What if your 15 year old daughter was having 'relations' with a 17 year old ?

Landed this guy ( not the 15 year old girl ) in jail.


Marcus Dwayne Dixon (born September 16, 1984) is an American football defensive end and defensive tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs of the National Football League (NFL). He was signed by the Dallas Cowboys as an undrafted free agent in 2008. He played college football at Hampton University.

Dixon is also known for being prosecuted in a high-profile court case when, as a high school student, he was convicted in May 2003 for the "aggravated molestation" of Kristie Brown, an underage girl. These charges were later overturned and dropped to statutory rape



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Dixon

Despite it all, he still made a life for himself.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, May 31, 2013 3:34 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:

From this angle, looks like Lee Meriwether. That's my guess.



I think you're right. The hairstyle looks like Lee's, and after all, she did have a Miss America (1955) winning derriere.


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Friday, May 31, 2013 3:52 PM

JONGSSTRAW


OTOH, Julie Newmar didn't play second cat-fiddle to anyone!





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Friday, May 31, 2013 4:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Did you say something ? Sorry. I was distracted.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 1, 2013 8:12 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Not to forget the third Catwoman, the lovely Eartha Kitt....




3 different Catwomen in 3 seasons? Gotta ask Adam West about that if I ever get to meet him again.

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Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:25 AM

QUANDOM


Had forgotten how lovely she was.
Ah, glad to have fixed that problem!

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Saturday, June 1, 2013 12:48 PM

JONGSSTRAW


What problem is that?

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Saturday, June 1, 2013 7:14 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:


What if your 15 year old daughter was having 'relations' with a 17 year old ?

Landed this guy ( not the 15 year old girl ) in jail.


Marcus Dwayne Dixon (born September 16, 1984) is an American football defensive end and defensive tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs of the National Football League (NFL). He was signed by the Dallas Cowboys as an undrafted free agent in 2008. He played college football at Hampton University.

Dixon is also known for being prosecuted in a high-profile court case when, as a high school student, he was convicted in May 2003 for the "aggravated molestation" of Kristie Brown, an underage girl. These charges were later overturned and dropped to statutory rape





didn't read the link, but I can tell you a 17 year old would not be jailed for having sex with a 15 year old as that is not illegal here.

I don't support young people being put in jail if that can be avoided, and certainly not for something like this.

I see consent laws as being a protection for youngsters from predators, that's why I think the age of the other party is significant.

I think the laws should be the same for hetero or gay couples.

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Saturday, June 1, 2013 10:08 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


LAUGH OUT LOUD....................Hi-larious, PN

That goes under: Thanks, I needed that. I almost fell out my chair.
(By the way, I notice Julie Newmar's ass first, ha, ha, ha)

Chuckle, snort!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:


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Saturday, June 1, 2013 10:10 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


That's gotta be Julie Newmar's ass...................

Sproing!!!!!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:




Is that Julie Newmar or Lee Meriwether?


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Saturday, June 1, 2013 10:19 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


She, Kaitlyn Hunt 18, definitely broke the law as it is written in Florida (and also here in NY). Anyone under the age of 17 is considered a minor. Anyone above that age a consenting adult.

From what I understand the younger girl was 14 at the time of the "rape" and the older girl 18. That is what makes it rape. Doesn't matter that it's 2 girls. It's the age, not the gender.

I also heard that the D.A. has offered a deal with no jail time, but the older girl would have to register as a sex offender. Kaitlyn Hunt refused the plea bargain and wants a trial.

I don't agree with her decision, but I also don't agree she should have to register as a sex offender. She should be given a suspended sentence and probation and nothing else. The more the younger girl's parents make this an issue the more they will drive their daughter into Kaitlyn's arms. They should drop all charges and move on with their lives, otherwise when she's of age, bye-bye Mommy and Daddy.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:

They're different.

Quote:

After Girl Expelled From High School and Charged Over Lesbian Relationship, Anonymous Goes on the Offensive


When Florida high school student Kaitlyn Hunt was a senior in high school, she began dating a 15-year-old teammate on her school's girls' basketball team.* Kaitlyn's parents say the parents of the 15-year-old never complained to them about the (consensual) relationship. But halfway through the school year, the younger girl's parents had her arrested. She was charged with a felony—"lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12-16 years old." The girl's parents also succeeded in getting her expelled from school by appealing to the school board after the school and a judge refused to grant their request, according to Kaitlyn's mother, Kelly Hunt Smith.

"That is absolutely ludicrous," Smith wrote on Facebook last Friday in a widely shared plea for help. "We need justice in this situation, not to feed into these parents' hates and insanity."

Enter Anonymous, the global hacker collective, which recently has raised eyebrows by pursuing justice for rape victims. In this case, some of the same Anonymous members are rallying behind a girl they feel has been wrongly accused of sexual misconduct. On Saturday, they launched the twitter hashtag #OPJustice4Kaitlyn, and a press release that begins: "Greetings, Bigots."

"The truth is, Kaitlyn Hunt is a bright young girl who was involved in a consensual, same-sex relationship while both she and her partner were minors," reads the release.* "She has a big future ahead of her and there are people, thousands of people in fact, that have no intention of allowing you to ruin it with your rotten selective enforcement."




And should be treated as such.

Agree ? Yes or no. And why.




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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:57 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Actually, the fact of the matter is that they shouldn't be treated differently, but generally are. Most states have something referred to as a "Romeo and Juliet" clause in statutory rape law, essentially making it legal for teenagers to have sex with other teenagers (because, let's face it, teenagers are going to have sex, and making them all felons for it would hardly be sensible or just) but those clauses don't include homosexual relationships. So, as an example, a 15-year-old could have sex with an 18-year-old of the opposite sex, and it would not be considered statutory rape, because in most states there's a sort of sliding scale of the age of consent in that instance that declares an age difference of five years to be perfectly legal, so long as the younger party is of a certain age (usually their mid-teens.) However, the age of consent for homosexual sex is defined under a different law, and the age is usually higher; 17 or 18 in most cases.
I don't know if that's what happened, here. I'd have to dig through Florida's age of consent laws to see if there's a Romeo and Juliet clause for heterosexual couples, but not gay ones. The specific laws are sometimes difficult to track down, so I'd prefer lawyers in the state do that. However, the separate laws are very common, and they do represent a double-standard.

Few other points:
Is there proof these girls were having sex? I know it's likely they had sex, but I've dated people I didn't have sex with. I'm sure everyone has.
Even if they did have sex, I'd be opposed to this girl being labeled a felon and a sex offender for the rest of her life. I don't think that's right, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. No one deserves that for being a sexually active teenager. Consequences are one thing, felonies are another.
It is entirely true that the risks are lower for a lesbian couple. Pregnancy is basically a non-issue, and STDs are far less common. This may or may not be relevant in terms of defining statutory rape, but the fact remains that it's technically safer for girls to have sex with other girls.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 4:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
That's gotta be Julie Newmar's ass...................

Sproing!!!!!


SGG



I went w/ my first guess, but Julie does seem to make more sense. Her body is a bit more... articulate ( to quote Mal )

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 4:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Oh, and speaking of...

Michael Douglas has opened up about his past diagnosis, revealing that oral sex, not smoking or drinking, caused his type of throat cancer.

In a candid new interview with U.K.'s The Guardian, Douglas admits that his illness was caused by the human papillomavirus (HPV).

"Without wanting to get too specific, this particular cancer is caused by HPV, which actually comes about from cunnilingus," the "Behind the Candelabra" star, 68, explains.

Douglas, who fought a six-month battle with the disease from August 2010 until January 2011, also confesses that he thought that his battle with cancer would be a fatal one. He says at first he assumed the stress from his son Cameron's legal troubles played a big factor in his sickness.

"And with this kind of cancer, 95% of the time it doesn't come back,"


And now, this message...




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:03 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


WTF?

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 12:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
WTF?



Did you get lost somewhere?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 3:30 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


What's the story about Michael Douglas got to do with anything?

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:37 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:


"Without wanting to get too specific, this particular cancer is caused by HPV, which actually comes about from cunnilingus," the "Behind the Candelabra" star, 68, explains.



WOW! Good thing Douglas didn't want to get 'too specific'. Lord only knows what details he's leaving out.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 12:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
What's the story about Michael Douglas got to do with anything?



Lesbians aren't the only ones who engage in certain activities.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 5:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!




Why DO the ladies love Colonel Angus so ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:18 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Uncle Junior too.


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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 10:34 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
\
Lesbians aren't the only ones who engage in certain activities.




No shit sherlock. Still trying to work out the relevance to the Michael Douglas story.

Oh wait, oral sex. Vagies. Hee hee hee.


I'd almost forgotten what it was like to be 12. Thanks for the reminder.

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Thursday, June 6, 2013 12:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Try it sometimes ... not being such a cranky fossil, I mean. You'll live longer.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:29 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


LAUGH OUT LOUD..................Good one, Auraptor

The laughingSGGisall

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Why DO the ladies love Colonel Angus so ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Friday, June 7, 2013 4:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"WOW! Good thing Douglas didn't want to get 'too specific'. Lord only knows what details he's leaving out."

I bet you never knew that before - that certain strains of the HPV virus not only can cause cervical cancer in women, they can cause oral cancer in both sexes, and other cancers as well. So it's not only females who need to be concerned about HPV, but men as well.

So you learned something new that might be valuable to you, or if not to you, to your children, or their children. Good thing he got as specific as he did, or you'd still be ignorant.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/07/hpv-related-cance
rs-surge/1810491
/

Doctors see rise in HPV-related cancers

Cervical cancer rates have fallen dramatically because of screening tests, but rates of other HPV-related cancers are increasing.

A new report documents a disturbing rise in the number of cases of cancer related to HPV, a family of sexually transmitted viruses linked to tumors of the cervix, head and neck, and several organs.

HPV, or human papillomavirus, is best known for causing cancer of the cervix and genital warts, both of which can now be prevented by vaccines. But HPV also causes cancers of the vagina, vulva, penis and anus, as well as oral cancers involving the back of the throat, tonsils and base of the tongue.

And while cervical cancer rates have fallen dramatically because of screening tests, rates of other HPV-related cancers are increasing, likely resulting from changes in sexual practices over the past 30 to 40 years.

HPV is the most common sexually transmitted infection in the world, according to the National Cancer Institute, another co-sponsor of the report. Most sexually active people become infected at some point, although most clear the infection with no lingering effects.

More than 10% of men and 3.6% of women have a current oral HPV infection, according to a study published last year in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

About 12,200 women a year are diagnosed with cervical cancer, while 7,100 people develop HPV-related oral cancers, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, another sponsor of the report. If trends continue, oral cancers will overtake cervical cancers as the leading cause of HPV-related tumors by 2020. ...


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Friday, June 7, 2013 5:05 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hi Rose,

Yes, I've heard of the Romeo & Juliet clause, but I believe that point is moot when one of the teens is considered an adult (adult age varies from state to state). In New York, I believe the age of consent is 17. So if a 17 year old has sex with a "minor" (someone under 17) it's considered statutory rape.

Also, I heard somewhere that the older girl admitted to having sex with the younger girl, hence the charges brought against her. That is kind of strange since there were no witnesses to the alleged rape. It's an interesting case because it forces the state to define the sexual act.
What I mean is, is anything other than heterosexual intercourse, or penetration, considered, within the state laws, sex.

So if the state considers lesbian sex to be sex regardless of penetration or sexual battery (forced sex, rape). Then is the state required to recognize the existence of lesbian love, as well as sexual attraction between same-gender partners. It is a civil matter. If the young woman can be arrested because of laws irregardless of gender, then those same laws should not prevent anyone, regardless of gender, from pursuing their civil right to marry.

By the way, in Florida the right for 2 women, or men, to marry was recently prohibited in a state law known as Amendment 2 (2008). So that means before then there was no law on the books prohibiting same-sex marriage. Think about that for a minute, in 2008 it became illegal.

Interesting.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Actually, the fact of the matter is that they shouldn't be treated differently, but generally are. Most states have something referred to as a "Romeo and Juliet" clause in statutory rape law, essentially making it legal for teenagers to have sex with other teenagers (because, let's face it, teenagers are going to have sex, and making them all felons for it would hardly be sensible or just) but those clauses don't include homosexual relationships. So, as an example, a 15-year-old could have sex with an 18-year-old of the opposite sex, and it would not be considered statutory rape, because in most states there's a sort of sliding scale of the age of consent in that instance that declares an age difference of five years to be perfectly legal, so long as the younger party is of a certain age (usually their mid-teens.) However, the age of consent for homosexual sex is defined under a different law, and the age is usually higher; 17 or 18 in most cases.
I don't know if that's what happened, here. I'd have to dig through Florida's age of consent laws to see if there's a Romeo and Juliet clause for heterosexual couples, but not gay ones. The specific laws are sometimes difficult to track down, so I'd prefer lawyers in the state do that. However, the separate laws are very common, and they do represent a double-standard.

Few other points:
Is there proof these girls were having sex? I know it's likely they had sex, but I've dated people I didn't have sex with. I'm sure everyone has.
Even if they did have sex, I'd be opposed to this girl being labeled a felon and a sex offender for the rest of her life. I don't think that's right, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. No one deserves that for being a sexually active teenager. Consequences are one thing, felonies are another.
It is entirely true that the risks are lower for a lesbian couple. Pregnancy is basically a non-issue, and STDs are far less common. This may or may not be relevant in terms of defining statutory rape, but the fact remains that it's technically safer for girls to have sex with other girls.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.


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Friday, June 7, 2013 5:18 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Rose,

Found this article regarding the Romeo & Juliet clause in Florida.
It doesn't completely answer the question, but does provide some insight as to how lawmakers go about tackling this problem - sex and teenage consent.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/flor
idas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status


They consider a 14-year-old, old enough to consent as long as their partner is not more than 4 years older. It appears that Kaitlyn may have a defense.

This case gets more interesting.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
She, Kaitlyn Hunt 18, definitely broke the law as it is written in Florida (and also here in NY). Anyone under the age of 17 is considered a minor. Anyone above that age a consenting adult.

From what I understand the younger girl was 14 at the time of the "rape" and the older girl 18. That is what makes it rape. Doesn't matter that it's 2 girls. It's the age, not the gender.

I also heard that the D.A. has offered a deal with no jail time, but the older girl would have to register as a sex offender. Kaitlyn Hunt refused the plea bargain and wants a trial.

I don't agree with her decision, but I also don't agree she should have to register as a sex offender. She should be given a suspended sentence and probation and nothing else. The more the younger girl's parents make this an issue the more they will drive their daughter into Kaitlyn's arms. They should drop all charges and move on with their lives, otherwise when she's of age, bye-bye Mommy and Daddy.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:

They're different.

Quote:

After Girl Expelled From High School and Charged Over Lesbian Relationship, Anonymous Goes on the Offensive


When Florida high school student Kaitlyn Hunt was a senior in high school, she began dating a 15-year-old teammate on her school's girls' basketball team.* Kaitlyn's parents say the parents of the 15-year-old never complained to them about the (consensual) relationship. But halfway through the school year, the younger girl's parents had her arrested. She was charged with a felony—"lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12-16 years old." The girl's parents also succeeded in getting her expelled from school by appealing to the school board after the school and a judge refused to grant their request, according to Kaitlyn's mother, Kelly Hunt Smith.

"That is absolutely ludicrous," Smith wrote on Facebook last Friday in a widely shared plea for help. "We need justice in this situation, not to feed into these parents' hates and insanity."

Enter Anonymous, the global hacker collective, which recently has raised eyebrows by pursuing justice for rape victims. In this case, some of the same Anonymous members are rallying behind a girl they feel has been wrongly accused of sexual misconduct. On Saturday, they launched the twitter hashtag #OPJustice4Kaitlyn, and a press release that begins: "Greetings, Bigots."

"The truth is, Kaitlyn Hunt is a bright young girl who was involved in a consensual, same-sex relationship while both she and her partner were minors," reads the release.* "She has a big future ahead of her and there are people, thousands of people in fact, that have no intention of allowing you to ruin it with your rotten selective enforcement."




And should be treated as such.

Agree ? Yes or no. And why.





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Friday, June 7, 2013 5:27 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I was wrong to conclude that Kaitlyn broke the law in Florida. If the report is accurate, and the younger girl was 15 at the time the relationship existed and she was 18, then no law was broken according to the Romeo & Juliet clause - no more than 4 years older.

If this is true, Kaitlyn may have a case against the school board, the state and her girlfriend's parents.

I stand corrected.

I think, based upon the above facts, she should stick to her guns.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hi Rose,

Yes, I've heard of the Romeo & Juliet clause, but I believe that point is moot when one of the teens is considered an adult (adult age varies from state to state). In New York, I believe the age of consent is 17. So if a 17 year old has sex with a "minor" (someone under 17) it's considered statutory rape.

Also, I heard somewhere that the older girl admitted to having sex with the younger girl, hence the charges brought against her. That is kind of strange since there were no witnesses to the alleged rape. It's an interesting case because it forces the state to define the sexual act.
What I mean is, is anything other than heterosexual intercourse, or penetration, considered, within the state laws, sex.

So if the state considers lesbian sex to be sex regardless of penetration or sexual battery (forced sex, rape). Then is the state required to recognize the existence of lesbian love, as well as sexual attraction between same-gender partners. It is a civil matter. If the young woman can be arrested because of laws irregardless of gender, then those same laws should not prevent anyone, regardless of gender, from pursuing their civil right to marry.

By the way, in Florida the right for 2 women, or men, to marry was recently prohibited in a state law known as Amendment 2 (2008). So that means before then there was no law on the books prohibiting same-sex marriage. Think about that for a minute, in 2008 it became illegal.

Interesting.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Actually, the fact of the matter is that they shouldn't be treated differently, but generally are. Most states have something referred to as a "Romeo and Juliet" clause in statutory rape law, essentially making it legal for teenagers to have sex with other teenagers (because, let's face it, teenagers are going to have sex, and making them all felons for it would hardly be sensible or just) but those clauses don't include homosexual relationships. So, as an example, a 15-year-old could have sex with an 18-year-old of the opposite sex, and it would not be considered statutory rape, because in most states there's a sort of sliding scale of the age of consent in that instance that declares an age difference of five years to be perfectly legal, so long as the younger party is of a certain age (usually their mid-teens.) However, the age of consent for homosexual sex is defined under a different law, and the age is usually higher; 17 or 18 in most cases.
I don't know if that's what happened, here. I'd have to dig through Florida's age of consent laws to see if there's a Romeo and Juliet clause for heterosexual couples, but not gay ones. The specific laws are sometimes difficult to track down, so I'd prefer lawyers in the state do that. However, the separate laws are very common, and they do represent a double-standard.

Few other points:
Is there proof these girls were having sex? I know it's likely they had sex, but I've dated people I didn't have sex with. I'm sure everyone has.
Even if they did have sex, I'd be opposed to this girl being labeled a felon and a sex offender for the rest of her life. I don't think that's right, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. No one deserves that for being a sexually active teenager. Consequences are one thing, felonies are another.
It is entirely true that the risks are lower for a lesbian couple. Pregnancy is basically a non-issue, and STDs are far less common. This may or may not be relevant in terms of defining statutory rape, but the fact remains that it's technically safer for girls to have sex with other girls.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.



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Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:07 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
They consider a 14-year-old, old enough to consent as long as their partner is not more than 4 years older. It appears that Kaitlyn may have a defense.




Yep, there's that sliding scale. The real question I would have is whether that applies to same-sex couples in Florida, because sometimes it does not. At one point, for example, I read that California has/had an age of consent law that says something like a 16-year-old can legally consent with someone of the opposite sex who is no more than ten years older. (Yes, ten years. A 25-year-old could legally have heterosexual sex with a 16-year-old.) If both parties are the same sex, both must be age 18 or older. Literally, this is a thing.

So, I think that's an important aspect of this whole question, and changes the meaning of being "treated differently" to suddenly mean, "Should this case be treated more harshly than other cases because both parties happen to be women?" instead of "Should the case be dismissed on the grounds of both of them being women?"

(The answer, of course, being no.)


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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