REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

immigration reform means national ID?

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Sunday, June 16, 2013 00:01
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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:12 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/opinion/sobel-id-immigration/index.html

New ID rules would threaten citizens' rights
By Richard Sobel, Special to CNN
updated 7:47 AM EDT, Thu June 13, 2013
Quote:


(CNN) -- Sensible immigration reform will strengthen American society and economy. But it must also respect the rights of U.S. citizens and those aspiring to join them.

Buried in the comprehensive immigration reform legislation before the Senate are obscure provisions that impose on Americans expansive national identification systems, tied to electronic verification schemes. Under the guise of "reform," these trample fundamental rights and freedoms.

Requirements in Senate Bill 744 for mandatory worker IDs and electronic verification remove the right of citizens to take employment and "give" it back as a privilege only when proper proof is presented and the government agrees. Such systems are inimical to a free society and are costly to the economy and treasury.

Any citizen wanting to take a job would face the regulation that his or her digitized high-resolution passport or driver's license photo be collected and stored centrally in a Department of Homeland Security Citizenship and Immigration Services database.




I dunno. This is an analysis/opinion piece rather than hard news. I'm not sure whether it's accurate or an imaginary interpretation.

Does anybody have any hard facts, or confirmation from a reliable source?


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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:48 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Probably talking about this bit of SB744

Section 274A (c)(F)

Quote:

`(F) IDENTITY AUTHENTICATION MECHANISM-

`(i) DEFINITIONS- In this subparagraph:

`(I) COVERED IDENTITY DOCUMENT- The term `covered identity document' means a valid--

`(aa) United States passport, passport card, or a document evidencing lawful permanent residence status or employment authorized status issued to an alien;


`(bb) enhanced driver's license or identity card issued by a participating State; or


`(cc) photograph and appropriate identifying information provided by the Secretary of State pursuant to the granting of a visa.


`(II) PARTICIPATING STATE- The term `participating State' means a State that has an agreement with the Secretary to provide the Secretary, for purposes of identity verification in the System, with photographs and appropriate identifying information maintained by the State.


`(ii) REQUIREMENT FOR IDENTITY AUTHENTICATION- In addition to verifying the documents specified in subparagraph (C), (D), or (E) and utilizing the System under subsection (d), each employer shall use an identity authentication mechanism described in clause (iii) or provided in clause (iv) after it becomes available to verify the identity of each individual the employer seeks to hire.

`(iii) PHOTO TOOL-

`(I) USE REQUIREMENT- An employer seeking to hire an individual who has a covered identity document shall verify the identity of such individual using the photo tool described in subclause (II).

`(II) DEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENT- The Secretary shall develop and maintain a photo tool that enables employers to match the photo on a covered identity document provided to the employer to a photo maintained by a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services database.



The last paragraph seems to indicate that there would be a database that your identification would have to match before you could be employed.

Farther down is this.
Quote:

`(8) NO AUTHORIZATION OF NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS- Nothing in this section may be construed to directly or indirectly authorize the issuance, use, or establishment of a national identification card.


But the government would still have to have a list of your "Covered Identity Document", which would be,

Quote:

`(aa) United States passport, passport card, or a document evidencing lawful permanent residence status or employment authorized status issued to an alien;


`(bb) enhanced driver's license or identity card issued by a participating State; or


`(cc) photograph and appropriate identifying information provided by the Secretary of State pursuant to the granting of a visa.



So, in effect, you can't work without a "Covered Identity Document".

That's the fun of this. The only way to know who's an illegal alien is to have a database of all the citizens and legal aliens, and require them to have documents to prove they're legal.

But there's other competing immingration legislation, and there's also plenty of time for amendments, so we'll see.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, June 14, 2013 7:40 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


`(8) NO AUTHORIZATION OF NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS- Nothing in this section may be construed to directly or indirectly authorize the issuance, use, or establishment of a national identification card.

According to the above, just the opposite of what Mr. Sobel is saying is true. No National ID Card.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/opinion/sobel-id-immigration/index.html

New ID rules would threaten citizens' rights
By Richard Sobel, Special to CNN
updated 7:47 AM EDT, Thu June 13, 2013
Quote:


(CNN) -- Sensible immigration reform will strengthen American society and economy. But it must also respect the rights of U.S. citizens and those aspiring to join them.

Buried in the comprehensive immigration reform legislation before the Senate are obscure provisions that impose on Americans expansive national identification systems, tied to electronic verification schemes. Under the guise of "reform," these trample fundamental rights and freedoms.

Requirements in Senate Bill 744 for mandatory worker IDs and electronic verification remove the right of citizens to take employment and "give" it back as a privilege only when proper proof is presented and the government agrees. Such systems are inimical to a free society and are costly to the economy and treasury.

Any citizen wanting to take a job would face the regulation that his or her digitized high-resolution passport or driver's license photo be collected and stored centrally in a Department of Homeland Security Citizenship and Immigration Services database.




I dunno. This is an analysis/opinion piece rather than hard news. I'm not sure whether it's accurate or an imaginary interpretation.

Does anybody have any hard facts, or confirmation from a reliable source?



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Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:16 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
`(8) NO AUTHORIZATION OF NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS- Nothing in this section may be construed to directly or indirectly authorize the issuance, use, or establishment of a national identification card.

According to the above, just the opposite of what Mr. Sobel is saying is true. No National ID Card.



Not exactly a national identification card.

However, the government would have to have a database of the information from a "Covered Identity Document" such as a passport, enhanced driver's license or identity card from a state, or an ID issued with a visa. No Covered Identity Document - no job. So although it's not just one type of document, the Covered Identity Documents might be considered a de facto national identity card, at least for employment.

Then there's the fact that there is no restriction that I can find in the legislation on how the government's database of valid Covered Identity Documents can be used.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So in other words, not a national ID card. It just looks, swims, and quacks like one.

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Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:41 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So in other words, not a national ID card. It just looks, swims, and quacks like one.



Someone who does not trust the government might think so.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:39 PM

AGENTROUKA


Coming from a country with a national ID, thus being used to it since forever, I'm neutrally curios. What are the concerns regarding them? Would having them make a realistic difference to the situation now?

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Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think it depends how it gets used. FOR EXAMPLE: the original intention of the Social Security number was strictly for purposes of having SS taken out of your paycheck and tracking that so you would have something for your retirement in your later years. Now you have to give out that number to get a credit card, get a mortgage, rent an apartment .. or a car ... etc. It follows you everywhere. That extremely sensitive piece of information gets demanded by pretty much everyone, and you HAVE to hand it out if you hope to have a transaction with those entities that demand it. And it's pretty easy to obtain fraudulently on the internet, leading to all sorts of mischief made under your identity.

In this instance, government isn't the main culprit - not that that makes me trust it any more - it's private business.

But the wholesale (so to speak) private abuse of the SSN ID system is one example of a government-issued ID gone awry.

ETA: As I understand it, you are protected by some extremely strong privacy protections in your constitution. Here in the US we aren't. There already is a system in place of cameras in parks, on streets etc hooked up to facial recognition software, revelation of the NSA collecting at the very least meta-data on all phone and computer communications and transactions (that they admitted to, they're probably searching content as well with context-sensitive software analysis that's was written up about years ago), etc. I can see the cards having RFIDs in them and being tracked by devices placed around in the environment.


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