REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Zimmerman's Own Words

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Friday, July 19, 2013 18:28
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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:50 PM

BYTEMITE


Was watching an interview. He's on Hannity. Not sure why family was watching Hannity, as they don't really like him.

...

I understand what's at stake here. I understand how important it is for self-defense laws to stand.

But this guy. THIS GUY.

He just said that he thinks it was "god's plan" that Trevon Martin died that night.

Excuse me. Must rage.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:02 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I understand what's at stake here. I understand how important it is for self-defense laws to stand.


This is what I don't get. Why is Zimmerman's right to self-defense a big deal and Martin's right to self-defense not at issue? Zimmerman was the instigator. The kid was walking home when some nut with a gun confronted him for no reason. Martin had a right to defend HIMself.

Quote:

But this guy. THIS GUY.

I'm right there with you on that.


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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:25 PM

BYTEMITE


You can't send people to jail just for being evil self-righteous bastards. And ultimately, while I question defining cement as a lethal weapon justifying escalation to lethal force, I'm not really sure what the outcome here will be. I don't think Zimmerman is "innocent" in the strictest sense of the term, but I'm also not sure he can be convicted.

Trevon Martin was probably defending himself. And probably Zimmerman was, though under the circumstances I think Zimmerman was in the wrong. We'll never really know exactly what happened that night. What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


TM was the aggressor. Not GZ.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


DP

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:28 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.



100% it is so.

I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 5:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.



100% it is so.

I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn.



He's on trial for 2nd degree murder. I'm sure he was told NOT to apologize, as that may appear to be some sort of admission of guilt, at least in the court of public opinion.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 6:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn."

HA HA

good one

I'll have to remember that.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 6:15 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn."

HA HA

good one

I'll have to remember that.



Yeah. It's really the only way to handle it.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 6:26 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.



100% it is so.

I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn.



He's on trial for 2nd degree murder. I'm sure he was told NOT to apologize, as that may appear to be some sort of admission of guilt, at least in the court of public opinion.




Maybe, but in this court of public opinion it seems to have backfired. I was kinda on his side before I heard this. Because I'm against our justice system and the punishments it gives out on principle because it's all corrupt.

But... him saying this actually makes him seem like a really terrible person. And he can't go to jail for that. But I can dislike him a lot.

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Wednesday, July 3, 2013 6:45 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I despair of your laws in the US if this guy gets off with nothing. If you shot and killed an unarmed person, if even you were defending yourself, you'd get convicted of something - manslaughter most likely. Surely there has to be acknowledge of due force, not any force.

Anyway, trial will determine the outcome, right or wrong.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 5:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
TM was the aggressor. Not GZ.



You don't know that for a fact. No one does save GZ.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 5:04 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I despair of your laws in the US if this guy gets off with nothing. If you shot and killed an unarmed person, if even you were defending yourself, you'd get convicted of something - manslaughter most likely. Surely there has to be acknowledge of due force, not any force.

Anyway, trial will determine the outcome, right or wrong.



In Florida as soon as you fear for your life you are allowed to use lethal force. It does not matter if the other person is armed or not.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 5:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I tend to settle the question about who's at fault by asking myself: Who approached who? There was, as I recall, a similar incident where some asshole watching a parade came off the curb to approach one of the paraders, and then claimed that he (curbman) was only "defending" himself in the ensuing scuffle.

Seriously???


GZ followed TM, even tho the police told him not to. Imagine- you're walking home at night, and some creep starts following you. You have no idea what's in his mind: Rape? Robbery? Harrassment? Handing you your wallet back, because you dropped it? Now, in my book, following (literally stalking) someone is an act of aggression. If you're following someone with an innocent purpose, especially at night and in a non-public situation (everyone else is indoors) you'll announce yourself, from a distance: Hello? Excuse me? I think you dropped your wallet!

What GZ did and failed to do is the initial crime. It's GZ's fault. Common sense should prevail.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I read an interesting discussion about 'jury nullification'. According to the author, it was intended by the founding fathers to be used as the last resort against unjust laws. (I don't know if the argument is historically or legally accurate; I haven't looked it up.) But supposing it's a legally-available tactic, then it should be used here.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 7:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

He just said that he thinks it was "god's plan" that Trevon Martin died that night.


Jezus.
Quote:

What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.


Amen. He even laughed in court at one remark.
Quote:

I think someone else posted, but my mouse just started scrolling and I missed it. Darn.


Hee, hee, hee; I really IS the best way to deal with trolls who are here to snark and nothing else.
Quote:

I despair of your laws in the US if this guy gets off with nothing.


I have despaired ever since OJ got off...and it only continues...As someone famous once said, sometimes "the law is an ass".
Quote:

Common sense should prevail.


But it rarely does.

Excuse me. Must


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Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:01 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I read an interesting discussion about 'jury nullification'. According to the author, it was intended by the founding fathers to be used as the last resort against unjust laws. (I don't know if the argument is historically or legally accurate; I haven't looked it up.) But supposing it's a legally-available tactic, then it should be used here.



How nullification works is a jury finding someone not guilty even if he factually is, usually for emotional or political grounds. Are you suggesting that Zimmerman is guilty of something, but that the jury should let him walk?

My daughter, much more cynical than me, has told me that the jury will NOT convict Zimmerman.

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:06 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GZ followed TM,



That's that.

An armed man invited himself into the personal space of an innocent doing nothing wrong. This was the first aggressive move that started the whole thing. TM had every right to stand his ground and defend himself against GZ.

Perhaps the self-defense isn't thought to apply to TM since he never prepared himself properly by pitching into the industry that loves Stand Your Ground? Or perhaps there's another reason... ?

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Thursday, July 4, 2013 7:10 PM

OONJERAH


Zimmerman received 'A' in college course that addressed self-defense

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/03/19270677-zimmerman-received
-a-in-college-course-that-addressed-self-defense?lite


GZ ... "received high marks in a criminal litigation

course that touched on Florida state law regarding when

it’s appropriate to use self-defense and the so- called

“Stand Your Ground” statute."

"Zimmerman had said during an interview with Sean Hannity

of Fox News last summer that he was not familiar with the

Stand Your Ground law prior to the shooting. Jurors were

shown that interview on Tuesday afternoon."



======================---------------

Today I see that GZ can be shameless telling a bald-faced lie.

What I wrote to myself yesterday while thinking that GZ might

not even be held for manslaughter. :

"George Zimmerman trial. ... I don't like the type of person

that GZ is, and I feel strongly that he initiated the contact --

the scuffle -- that ended in TM's death. I really think he is

guilty. But the evidence so far, being what it is, I don't

think it's proof of his guilt. They need to prove intent?

To know what was in his mind? My guess is, GZ intended to

observe TM doing a burglary; failing this, he'd confront TM

& hold him for the police to arrest for trespassing.

Which of them made the 1st contact? We'll never know."

He claimed to be the security watchman for his community.

But -- He wore no uniform or badge. He didn't introduce himself.

Indeed, his own behavior was pretty suspicious.



======================

All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon


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Friday, July 5, 2013 2:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I see from the link that that is testimony from the trial. Ergo, Zimmerman is now a PROVEN LIAR. As far as I'm concerned, that makes suspicious anything he testifies that cannot be proven. It's not like that class was years ago and he could have forgotten it.

Given the sum total of his taking a class and knowing about the law, literally worming his way into becoming a pseudo-cop (yet not wearing any identification as such at the time), roaming around following someone at night with a loaded gun--against the advice of the proper authorities--saying it was "God's will" that Martin died, and everything else, I've pretty much made up my mind.

I think given the sum of what we know, arguing that Zimmerman was "innocent" is a stretch, and those who do have a bias.


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Friday, July 5, 2013 9:54 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
An armed man invited himself into the personal space of an innocent doing nothing wrong. This was the first aggressive move that started the whole thing. TM had every right to stand his ground and defend himself against GZ.

Perhaps the self-defense isn't thought to apply to TM since he never prepared himself properly by pitching into the industry that loves Stand Your Ground? Or perhaps there's another reason... ?



Thing is Zimmerman following Martin and asking him, even aggressively, is not against the law. It comes down to who started the physical confrontation. Zimmerman said Martin did. The prosecution will have to show that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation or shot Martin without any physical confrontation.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, July 5, 2013 6:14 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
An armed man invited himself into the personal space of an innocent doing nothing wrong. This was the first aggressive move that started the whole thing. TM had every right to stand his ground and defend himself against GZ.

Perhaps the self-defense isn't thought to apply to TM since he never prepared himself properly by pitching into the industry that loves Stand Your Ground? Or perhaps there's another reason... ?



Thing is Zimmerman following Martin and asking him, even aggressively, is not against the law. It comes down to who started the physical confrontation. Zimmerman said Martin did. The prosecution will have to show that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation or shot Martin without any physical confrontation.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



I read something else. From the trial:

They called as a witness Alexis Francisco Carter, the military attorney who taught the class. Carter described Zimmerman as one of his better students and said the neighborhood watch volunteer got an "A" in his class.

Under cross-examination, Carter gave two definitions of legal concepts that seemed to bolster the defense's case. He explained that a person can make a self-defense argument if the person has a "reasonable apprehension" of death or great bodily harm.

"It's imminent fear. The fact alone that there isn't an injury doesn't necessarily mean that the person didn't have a reasonable apprehension or fear," Carter said. "The fact that there are injuries might support there was reasonable apprehension and fear."


I'm a teenager, walking alone in the dark, when a grown man approaches me making demands in a belligerent voice. Oh, and the man has a GUN while all I have is a bag of skittles.

So, can I defend myself now?

Or should I just bow down to my "master", which is what many folks seems to think TM was obliged to do?

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Friday, July 5, 2013 7:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4- indeed. Thank you.

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Friday, July 5, 2013 10:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Again.

I stand by my initial assessment - Second Degree Murder.

ETA: Took a while to dig up - original assessment is HERE, about 2/3rds of the way down through the first page.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51371&p=1

Summary from a later thread for those interested, but not wanting to read the whole mess.
Quote:

*shaking head*

You try to pull a gun on me, TRUST me, you'd wind up in far worse shape than Zimmerman did. How it is that even people who know better chug down a spoon fed narrative so obviously manufactured ?

I stand by my assessment, still. Zimmerman approached an already suspicious Martin, got in his personal space aggressively, and Martin reacted in a hostile fashion, a scuffle ensued and wound up with Martin getting shot - my OPINION of that unknowable moment is that Zimmerman laid hands on him, and Martin reacted by pounding the crap out of him, but backed off once Zimmerman was incapable of aggressing on him, THEN Zimmerman shot him as he was backing away, out of a combination of fear, humiliation and ego involvement.

Which is in fact second degree murder, acceptable on plea to manslaughter.

But the spin on this, the blatancy of what appears to be something between institutional racism, and general ass-covering, also shows up the immense imbalance of power which makes our court systems something of a joke when the prosecutor, police, and court collude on something, whether it be railroading someone innocent, protecting someone guilty, or bending the hell out of the rules to shield their own incompetence - if a public defender started strategically leaking information he'd damn near be lynched for it and WOULD be disbarred, not to mention the various procedural and other violations prosecutors get a free pass for, not the least of which is violation of discovery, which is ALSO a factor here, since the leaked information being held back WAS in fact a violation of the discovery process, you understand.

The thing that's grinding my gears right now is the complicity of the media shovelling a narrative in such a way as to intentionally try to influence a trial, that's obstruction of a sort, but let that go, what REALLY annoys me about it, is this... "On noes, the person being chased by a suspicious, aggressive creep physically beat him when that suspicious, aggressive creep tried to pull a gun on him, oh how horrible..." And I say to that, Fuck You.

When an ARMED, suspicious and threatening individual approaches and confronts you, maybe lays hands on you, you really think it's beyond the pale to respond violently in an effort to prevent them from deploying that armament against you ? Mind you, we do not know whether Martin was aware that Zimmerman was armed, but I highly suspect that reaching for that armament is what set the conflict from push and shove to serious violence - one of my own well known tactics is preventing someone from deploying a weapon in much the same storm-rush fashion, but I don't stop till said weapon is in my possession.

Oh and FYI, tactical/procedural screwup I maybe didn't mention before, in addition to all the other ones... Zimmerman also screwed the pooch by getting in arms reach during that confrontation, probably in an effort to intimidate - there's a REASON I talk to people out there in the darkness from fifteen feet away, folks.


And I remain standing by that original assessment, I know exactly the dynamic, I've thrown fifty and more "zimmermans" out of my damn office via the interview process, believe it....

-F

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Saturday, July 6, 2013 5:38 AM

MAL4PREZ


Frem, I remember your post well. It fit everything I knew about the case then, and even more so now.

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Saturday, July 6, 2013 5:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

But... him saying this actually makes him seem like a really terrible person. And he can't go to jail for that. But I can dislike him a lot.




Maybe he and Casey Anthony can start a club of some kind. A support group for really rotten folks who escaped jail time ? Naww... he'll likely be found guilty.

Will there be riots, by those who think he should be acquitted ? ( yeah, right )

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, July 6, 2013 6:14 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

But... him saying this actually makes him seem like a really terrible person. And he can't go to jail for that. But I can dislike him a lot.




Maybe he and Casey Anthony can start a club of some kind. A support group for really rotten folks who escaped jail time ?



Heh.

You raise an interesting point, though - perhaps I'm assuming malice where there's only human folly.

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Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It's definitely "human folly" to me. I see this as a guy who went down a path which got him in trouble, not because he's a bad person, but for many, many reasons, at least one of which can be laid at the feet of ALEC and the gun manufacturers' machinations to sell more guns. Some people are more easily led than others, and think they're doing the honorable or heroic thing without realizing they've gone too far until it's too late.

and "yes", to a degree, both Mal4 & Frem.


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Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:37 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


WE only have his side. But, he was told not to follow and he did so anyway.
The 911 call says it all, "he's up to no good" he says. THIS GUY was out for blood, he picked a fight and shot him dead. How could it be self defense when he put himself in harm's way. End of story.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I understand what's at stake here. I understand how important it is for self-defense laws to stand.


This is what I don't get. Why is Zimmerman's right to self-defense a big deal and Martin's right to self-defense not at issue? Zimmerman was the instigator. The kid was walking home when some nut with a gun confronted him for no reason. Martin had a right to defend HIMself.

Quote:

But this guy. THIS GUY.

I'm right there with you on that.



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Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:53 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Try thinking about this: Zimmerman has an automatic weapon on his person. Does he carry his gun with the safety on or off?

Why is this important, you may ask. Ok, let's say Trayvon was the aggressor. They both reach for the gun (damn that sounds familiar) and Zimmerman wins the struggle. In his own words he describes that scenario, which he wins and he shoots.

When, in the life and death struggle over the gun, and in defense of his life, does he have the presence of mind to say "Oh, yeah right, the safety is on. Let me click that button and aim carefully at his heart and pull the trigger."

That's the $65 Million dollar question: when did he click the safety on the gun?
If it's before he confronts Trayvon; murder.
If it's after or during the struggle, Bullshit.

Who brings a gun to a neighborhood watch?

A few years back in NY, an auxiliary policeman was killed because he followed too closely. Auxiliary policeman do not carry weapons, their supposed to call it in.


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You can't send people to jail just for being evil self-righteous bastards. And ultimately, while I question defining cement as a lethal weapon justifying escalation to lethal force, I'm not really sure what the outcome here will be. I don't think Zimmerman is "innocent" in the strictest sense of the term, but I'm also not sure he can be convicted.

Trevon Martin was probably defending himself. And probably Zimmerman was, though under the circumstances I think Zimmerman was in the wrong. We'll never really know exactly what happened that night. What I find intolerable is how unapologetic Zimmerman is about a situation that ended in someone dying that by all accounts appears to have been a tragic misunderstanding.


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Saturday, July 6, 2013 8:12 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


He never said that he ID's himself as a neighborhood watch person. Had he done that, we would be talking about nothing right now. At no point does he ID himself.

You're right about one thing; in the dark and rainy night, he's a stalker for all he knows. In the reenactment, he never says that Trayvon was looking into houses or trying to jimmy open doors, or trying to break into cars. He says that he's up to no good and that he appears to be on drugs.
Zimmerman must have x-ray goggles on because it's raining and dark.

He says that he was carrying something in his hand. Yeah, he was right about that: a soft drink and a bag of skittles.

In New York there was a case where a group of detectives (3) mistook a wallet for a gun and shot at the "suspect" 50 times. The "suspect" was coming home from work, an African immigrant. Imagine, you're minding your own business and some idiot wants to play "cop" and decides that you're up to no good because you cover your head from the elements, and have the nerve of carrying something in your hand.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I tend to settle the question about who's at fault by asking myself: Who approached who? There was, as I recall, a similar incident where some asshole watching a parade came off the curb to approach one of the paraders, and then claimed that he (curbman) was only "defending" himself in the ensuing scuffle.

Seriously???


GZ followed TM, even tho the police told him not to. Imagine- you're walking home at night, and some creep starts following you. You have no idea what's in his mind: Rape? Robbery? Harrassment? Handing you your wallet back, because you dropped it? Now, in my book, following (literally stalking) someone is an act of aggression. If you're following someone with an innocent purpose, especially at night and in a non-public situation (everyone else is indoors) you'll announce yourself, from a distance: Hello? Excuse me? I think you dropped your wallet!

What GZ did and failed to do is the initial crime. It's GZ's fault. Common sense should prevail.


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Saturday, July 6, 2013 8:39 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Zimmerman claims that they both struggled for the gun and that Martin had a hold of his holster and gun and that he wrested it away from him.

Then why wasn't any of Martin's DNA on the holster or gun. Plus, there was no trace of Zimmerman's DNA under Martin finger nails (remember Zimmerman claimed he banged his head against the concrete several times).

So, according to Zimmerman, Martin both touched the gun and him, yet no traces of Zimmerman's DNA on him and no traces of Martin's DNA on gun.
Hmmmmmmmmm!!!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
An armed man invited himself into the personal space of an innocent doing nothing wrong. This was the first aggressive move that started the whole thing. TM had every right to stand his ground and defend himself against GZ.

Perhaps the self-defense isn't thought to apply to TM since he never prepared himself properly by pitching into the industry that loves Stand Your Ground? Or perhaps there's another reason... ?



Thing is Zimmerman following Martin and asking him, even aggressively, is not against the law. It comes down to who started the physical confrontation. Zimmerman said Martin did. The prosecution will have to show that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation or shot Martin without any physical confrontation.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.


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Saturday, July 6, 2013 10:56 PM

OONJERAH


Quote ShinyGoodGuy, "THIS GUY was out for blood, he picked a fight and shot him dead.
How could it be self defense when he put himself in harm's way. End of story."

If I say that, because GZ is over 21, he's a mature & responsible

adult who could easily foresee the consequences of his actions,

then yeah, there's no self-defense. He'd say, "Well, yeah! I was

out hunting for Bad Guys. It's my thing."

But because GZ is a childish, unfulfilled dickwad who is unaware

of his own egomania & the fact that He was up to no good that

night ... I can make it self defense based on his self-delusions.

... But I won't.


Quote SGG, "That's the $65 Million dollar question: when did he click the safety on the gun? If it's before he confronts Trayvon; murder. If it's after or during the struggle, Bullshit.

Right. I've read that GZ has a long history of stalking.

Quote SGG, "In the reenactment, he never says that Trayvon was looking into houses or trying to jimmy open doors, or trying to break into cars. He says that he's up to no good and that he appears to be on drugs."

I've read that GZ has a long history of stalking ... people "who were

up to no good." Those people give him a "higher purpose."


Quote SGG, "So, according to Zimmerman, Martin both touched the gun and him, yet no traces of Zimmerman's DNA on him and no traces of Martin's DNA on gun. Hmmmmmmmmm!!!"

Do you mean that TM never touched the gun (while banging GZ's head

upon the pavement)? And that George is lying to us -- again!?

Why am I not surprised?

Thanks, Shiny. You have pointed out flaws in GZ's story that I had not heard.



======================


All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon

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Saturday, July 6, 2013 11:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Lest we forget, Zimmerman has changed his little story at least five times now, including an admission of flat out lying in the official report, so it's not like there's any credibility to be had when he opens his mouth anyways.

His ORIGINAL bullshit story was getting out to check a street sign and being jumped from behind by surprise out of the blue for no reason by Martin, despite the obvious fact that given he was FOLLOWING Martin he kinda had him in sight and in front of him, and that story further came to pieces on the call logs, whereupon Zimmerman changed his tale, and than again when THAT version was proven a lie... and so forth and so on - frankly I feel that he damned well ought to face additional charges for knowingly giving a false police report and possibly for perjury as well, as he's made statements under oath proven to be not only demonstrably false, but also that he knew at the time were false.

No, being a stupid jackass isn't a crime - murdering someone out of wounded pride cause of a situation YOU sent spiraling out of control to feed your goddamn ego, and then lying about it repeatedly.... that *IS*.

-Frem

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 2:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Oonj. In many ways, your thinking parallels mine. I'm not keeping up with the trial, just hearing bits and pieces. I'm hoping the defense has questioned the DNA not being on gun or holster issue, that's a biggie. I heard about the safety being off, but forgot about it, and that's another big point. I would say at least...what do they call it, "manslaughter" or something?--if he was walking around with a gun with the safety off in the first place. I'm surprised there isn't a law against that or something, but in Florida, I don't imagine there is.

Your analysis of Zimmerman's mentality is what I have concluded, and what I was referring to in my last post. I don't think he's evil, just immature and irresponsible. But he killed out of that immaturity and irresponsibility, which makes him culpable, IMHO.


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Sunday, July 7, 2013 3:01 AM

OONJERAH



If I recall your posts last year, Frem ... didn't you say that

Zimmerman wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut, and he'd

convict himself by blab?

By now, I guess, there's no way his attorney would let him take

the stand.

In the prosecutor's opening statement, he said "fuck" & "fucker"

several times quoting Zimmerman's remarks to the dispatcher

about the suspicious person who turned out to be Martin.

I also feel that the police, at least some of them, are very

reluctant to give a straight opinion of GZ now 'cause they

refused to arrest him last year until ordered to do so by the

state's attorney.




======================

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 5:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Here you go, guys.



Heck. You know he's guilty. Why bother with a trial?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 7:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Asinine, Geezer. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if you disagree with it, y'know? We're not on the jury; what information we get, we're allowed to listen to and make up our own minds, whether you like it or not, sorry.

Not to mention the fact that I'd appreciate you pointing out any person on this forum who has called for Zimmerman to be killed for his actions. In other words: Asinine.


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Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:37 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Everyone's entitled to their opinion...



Yep.

Mine is that a lot of folks are jumping to conclusions based on stereotypes and prejudices, and are cherrypicking evidence - and stuff not in evidence - to back up what they've already decided.

Unlike these folks, I have no idea what actually happened, and am willing to accept 'innocent until proven guilty".


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 12:37 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Mine is that a lot of folks are jumping to conclusions based on stereotypes and prejudices



Oh, you mean like someone who would accuse/try/find guilty/sentence to death/carry out the death sentence of an innocent young man in the space of a few minutes despite warnings from the real authorities to NOT do any of that? All for the heinous crime of walking after dark while wearing a hoodie and dark skin?

Geezer, what's really illuminating is how, from day one, you and your con buddies have been cherry picking evidence and making all possible assumptions that excuse the scared little man with the gun. Talk about drawing your own conclusions based on your own stereotypes and prejudices!

As for the noose - no one here has suggested killing Zimmerman. Martin, however, is fully and completely dead. Did you notice? Does it seem like any kind of injustice to you that this young man is dead? I've yet to see you or GZ express remorse about that. Again, very illuminating.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4- again, thank you for that cogent post.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 2:10 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4- again, thank you for that cogent post.




Ditto, MAL4!

Martin's death was worse than unnecessary and tragic. There was malice

in it -- the sort of impersonal malice of an angry & very foolish man.

May this become a classic lesson in the need for self-honesty.

If I do hammer on that point, it's probably due to my own years of Out

of Control, foolish, destructiveness. Thru no fault of my own, I did not

cause a tragedy and come before my judges.

Why do I have no sympathy for Zimmerman? He just pisses me off, lying &

inflating his pride when he should show remorse. He's not Teachable.



======================

All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. ~Paul Simon

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 5:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Are you suggesting that Zimmerman is guilty of something, but that the jury should let him walk?"

No, I'm concerned that the jury will be instructed to ONLY consider the letter of the 'stand your ground' law as applied to Zimmerman, and be told to ignore all other context. I'm concerned that the jury is white and Hispanic, with no African-Americans. I see a lot of room for ancillary factors that could lead to a less than just verdict.


Geezer, b4 you start whining like a dog that needs to be let out, I suggest you re-read my post and try to find anywhere where I suggest the jury should ignore the facts and come to a pre-judged verdict.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 9:08 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I despair of your laws in the US if this guy gets off with nothing. If you shot and killed an unarmed person, if even you were defending yourself, you'd get convicted of something - manslaughter most likely. Surely there has to be acknowledge of due force, not any force.

Anyway, trial will determine the outcome, right or wrong.



In Florida as soon as you fear for your life you are allowed to use lethal force. It does not matter if the other person is armed or not.




I've had discussions around this. I do not agree with this law.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 9:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
If I recall your posts last year, Frem ... didn't you say that

Zimmerman wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut, and he'd

convict himself by blab?

By now, I guess, there's no way his attorney would let him take

the stand.


Depends on whether his attorney really means to defend him, or intends to take a dive on purpose, and there's also what an idiot Zimmerman is, as he's fired at least one attorney rather than listen to his advice about shutting the fuck up - my exact comment was thus:
Quote:

See, from a prosecution angle, all you have to do is get this guy on the stand and start poking his fragile ego, and he'll ruin himself, lickety split - and worse, he will WANT to do it, just as his pride and ego forced that confrontation, demanded that he shoot, it will push him to tell his side of the story and "dress it up" in some logically inconsistent way that will allow a prosecutor with even a peanut for a brain (which is most of em) to completely excoriate his ass. So even if he gets a decent attorney, chances are he will no more listen to them about shutting the fuck up and staying off the stand, than he did the police dispatcher telling him not to pursue.

Really, guys like this, all you have to do is hand them a shovel, you understand ?


And in respect to Geezers stupid bullshit, one could say that's prettymuch what happened to Martin, couldn't they ? and somehow you don't have much a problem with THAT, do you - careful, you're true colors are showing.

I have ever maintained that Zimmerman is MORALLY guilty, and whether or not he is LEGALLY guilty needs be determined by a court, but since we all seem to know damn well our so-called-justice system is nothing but a fucking rubber stamp for the prison profit machine, wailing about it now does much of nothing, and again, I didn't see any fucking bitching when it railroaded kids and minorities, so maybe you should just fly that white sheet as a flag instead of wearing it, right Geeze ?

Me personally, I got an attitude about this cause it demeans MY work and profession, that which puts food on MY table, so yeah verily imma take it a bit more harsh than most would.

-Frem

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Monday, July 8, 2013 2:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yay Mal4, for me, too! WE are listening to the FACTS provided to us by the media and making up our own mind, and there are plenty of facts to point the way we are leaning. I think we have that right just as much as the jury does.

I not only disagree with that law, I believe it, and those in other states like it, were created explicitly by ALEC for the gun manufacturers in order to sell more guns. There are plenty of facts to back that up as well. And I see Zimmerman as being precisely the consequences of that law, as well as a patsy to it.

I will defend my right to listen to the facts and make up my own mind, and speak my mind. We all have that right, and to pretend anyone here is saying Zimmerman should be hung is illustrative of Geezer's prejudice and mentality, not a single thing more.


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Tuesday, July 9, 2013 8:46 PM

OONJERAH


Prosecution taking a dive?



Zimmerman trial: It's about race - By Roxanne Jones, Special to CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/09/opinion/jones-zimmerman-trial/index.html

"I would have told Martin's parents, 'prepare for hell,' " says
Donaldson. "It will not be easy. They will present evidence that
will make your son look like the worst criminal. ... "


======================

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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:27 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I've had discussions around this. I do not agree with this law.



I don't agree with it either. However because of the law and how it is written I think Zimmerman is going to be acquitted.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I fear so too. It isn't the first, and won't be the last.


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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:38 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Zimmerman's a piece of crap, but I expect he's going to be free by Friday or early next week. Some people are saying they expect riots and buildings set ablaze in large urban areas. In that case I'll just sit back on my couch and watch it all on tv with a large bag of buttered popcorn and some cold beers. Should be great entertainment watching big cities burn down and property destroyed as rioters and looters run amok through the streets. But the best part of course, will be watching the faces of the race-mongering media pundits as they cover the aftermath of the monster they solely created.

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