REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Zimmerman's Own Words

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Friday, July 19, 2013 18:28
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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:53 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Right you are Frem. His "take" on the events leading up to the murder, yes I said it, rang hollow to me from day one, but as testimony after testimony shines a light on his "take" it becomes clearer to me this guy is lying through his teeth. It's like Detective Serino said, he's pathological.

What's telling to me is the Judge's flat out rejection of the defense's motion to dismiss the case. That message was loud and clear: there's enough evidence to try the case. Also telling was her turning her back on defense attorney West as he argued for a particularly positive ruling regarding evidence/testimony submitted on behalf of Zimmerman. She left the court while he was in mid-sentence (truthfully, this guy seems like a total dick. Imagine him posting that degrading tweet revealing his and his family's total disdain for Rachelle Jenteal).

One other lie that some have missed: regarding his "head trauma", the 2 cuts on his noggin. In one of the videos where he's talking to the cops he states that when he went to emergency clinic that he was told he needed stitches, but that he refused treatment. The physician's assistant that treated him testified that he did not need stitches and was given a follow-up date. He did not go to the follow up visit. Head trauma my ass..wait, well he does have serious issues, but going on inside his cranium.

There are just too many lies.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Lest we forget, Zimmerman has changed his little story at least five times now, including an admission of flat out lying in the official report, so it's not like there's any credibility to be had when he opens his mouth anyways.

His ORIGINAL bullshit story was getting out to check a street sign and being jumped from behind by surprise out of the blue for no reason by Martin, despite the obvious fact that given he was FOLLOWING Martin he kinda had him in sight and in front of him, and that story further came to pieces on the call logs, whereupon Zimmerman changed his tale, and than again when THAT version was proven a lie... and so forth and so on - frankly I feel that he damned well ought to face additional charges for knowingly giving a false police report and possibly for perjury as well, as he's made statements under oath proven to be not only demonstrably false, but also that he knew at the time were false.

No, being a stupid jackass isn't a crime - murdering someone out of wounded pride cause of a situation YOU sent spiraling out of control to feed your goddamn ego, and then lying about it repeatedly.... that *IS*.

-Frem


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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:34 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
... be great entertainment watching big cities burn down and property destroyed as rioters and looters run amok through the streets. But the best part of course, will be watching the faces of the race-mongering media pundits as they cover the aftermath of the monster they solely created.




I disagree, JS. It's a situation that Our Racist Society
creates over and over again. The only difference with this
case is, like the Rodney King thing, it got noticed & then
it wouldn't go away.

Our Racist Society could be made to notice more of these
cases. Our hypocritical ass needs to get the message.



======================

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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Leaving aside the casual and obvious racism of our rightwingnuts, the factor of the media is something of concern in that rather than playing the typical sensationalism and biased yellow journalism (in both directions, naturally, to get maximum viewer potential), as of late they've seemed to be almost deliberately feeding the fire - and a careful analysis indicates repeated out of place phrases and strange word choices which really gives off a whiff of having been handed a script from upstairs....

Others of similiar suspicious bent went digging into the backtrail, and it's come to light there seems to be an actual push by the USDOJ towards confrontation, and we're waitin on document evidence since there's apparently a paper trail.

So once again we have our so called protectors deliberately causing chaos and carnage to justify their own existence, and the fifth estate helping them instead of shutting them down - which all in combination is gonna make any verdict, particularly an exoneration, look damn suspicious, for if the USDOJ financed and supported a push towards riots, you'd think for even a second they'd balk at strongarming a judge into pulling the trigger on it ?

Welcome to "justice" in america today - and yeah verily Obama shares the blame, but you rightwingnuts here don't get to point the finger cause you cheered on and maliciously, deliberately, ignorantly, enabled the very means by which he gets to do so, when your dimwitted texan asshat was sliming up the chair, which deprives you of any moral high ground in this.

-Frem

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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 7:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It looks to be going the way I feared. There's no consideration for a guy who was minding his own business going home from the store. Somehow, the fact he got stalked by a man with a gun - and had to defend himself with force - was his fault.

I would HOPE the jury is smarter than that. But when they see a black man, I suspect they see evil-doer rather than sympathetic victim. And when they see a really Caucasian-looking Hispanic, I suspect they see a potential victim, or hero, just like them. And not the sole architect of his own fuck-up.

I would like to be proven wrong.

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Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:21 PM

OONJERAH



Something that seems odd to me ...
This trial was started and finished in record time.
Faster than a speeding bullet train.

Are lawyers & witnesses just way sharper & faster in FL
than in CA? Did members of the jury have no questions?
Was it all rehearsed?
Did I sleep thru it?


======================

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:36 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The trial was short because there was not a lot of evidence to present. That is a problem for the prosecution. Remember they have to proof that Zimmerman was not acting in self defense. Florida is not like most states. In Florida self defense is not a positive defense, meaning the state has all the burden of proof.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Shiny. I'm not following the trail, it's not worth it for me because I'm pretty much afraid, it being Florida, that "law" being useful, he'll get off. I've paid attention to what's come out and what I've heard here, and for me there is enough evidence to make up my own mind. So I appreciate what you added about the judge, and there is news that indicates you may be onto something:
Quote:

Zimmerman jury may consider lesser charge of manslaughter: judge

Jurors in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman may also consider convicting him of the lesser charge of manslaughter in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, a judge ruled on Thursday.

In a victory for Florida state prosecutors, Judge Debra Nelson issued her ruling before prosecutors were scheduled to deliver closing arguments Thursday in the case which has captivated and polarized much of the U.S. public, and which generated a wave of street demonstrations last year.

As of Wednesday afternoon, prosecutors had indicated they would seek a second option of aggravated assault. More at http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/11/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUS
BRE96A0O320130711



I had yesterday heard the defense was arguing against any lesser charges--obviously just the one major charge would be difficult, and I don't think it's warranted. It may evidence what you suggested about the judge, Shiny, that she's allowing this lesser charge; personally I hope she allows the aggravated assault. I don't see Zimmerman as evil, just not too smart and with a dangerous mentality, and I think aggravated assault is the most logical verdict they could come up with, or manslaughter if that's not allowed. In my opinion Zimmerman has shown himself to be guilty, but not of deliberate murder, and I don't see sending him away for life as "justice". JMHO.

I think we all understand how it works:
Quote:

The defense preferred an "all or nothing" choice on second-degree murder ... concerned the jury might opt for what lead defense lawyer Mark O'Mara described as a "compromise verdict."

Zimmerman's detractors see him as a racial profiler who considered Martin suspicious because the teenager was black, and blame the defendant for unnecessarily pulling out his Kel Tec 9mm pistol, which was fully loaded with hollow-point bullets.




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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:21 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I despair of your laws in the US if this guy gets off with nothing. If you shot and killed an unarmed person, if even you were defending yourself, you'd get convicted of something - manslaughter most likely. Surely there has to be acknowledge of due force, not any force.

Anyway, trial will determine the outcome, right or wrong.



In Florida as soon as you fear for your life you are allowed to use lethal force. It does not matter if the other person is armed or not.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Such an inanely broad, unfocused law. By that logic, someone with agoraphobia could kill a whole bunch of people at a mall or something, and claim they were scared.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The whole IDEA is to make it broad. Just keep in mind that it's part of ALEC working in MANY states to create laws that will encourage people to buy guns. That's all the explanation you need to understand the "why" of the law.


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Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:12 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Such an inanely broad, unfocused law. By that logic, someone with agoraphobia could kill a whole bunch of people at a mall or something, and claim they were scared.



Pretty close. People have walked away with no charges for shooting unarmed people who did not even touch them; shooting people who did attack them but then were fleeing.

Plus, as I stated before Florida is one of the few states that does not view self defense as a positive defense. If you claim self defense here the state has the burden of disproving that. You have no burden what so ever.

If Zimmerman is found not guilty no one that has followed the case and looked at the laws will be surprised.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:16 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The whole IDEA is to make it broad. Just keep in mind that it's part of ALEC working in MANY states to create laws that will encourage people to buy guns. That's all the explanation you need to understand the "why" of the law.




The problem is less with the Stand Your Ground law than it is with the other laws in the state. Such as people claiming self defence not having to prove that.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 11:40 AM

OONJERAH


Quote Niki's quote: "pulling out his Kel Tec 9mm pistol, which
was fully loaded with hollow-point bullets."


Pardon my attention deficit, but this is the first I've heard of Hollow-Points!

Hollow-points mean to me: You are hunting big game, you expect to
meet someone armed & dangerous, OR you intend to kill someone.

Trayvon Martin was minding his own business, had done nothing wrong,
no cause to invade his space. He was Innocent that night.

George Zimmerman just became twice as guilty in my eyes; he was
out for blood!


======================
A man's gotta know his own Mind.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 2:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Nah, hollowpoints are actually a rather common load, for two reasons.

1. Generally a pistol is carried for last ditch defense of your person, in hopes of never using it, but should you need to, it's absolutely imperative to do as much damage as possible as rapidly as possible, in order to fully stop even a determined foe - bullets ain't a hollywood magic wand, and a fatally wounded attacker can still take you with them unless you put enough damage into them to render them incapable of this.
(Caveat, despite being less-lethal, a Taser will subvert this by locking them up and dropping them instantly, but suffers from a few flaws such as lack of multiple shots and trickier operation/retention at close range which make them less preferred as carry weapons, though they do have their place)

2. Bullets don't magically stop when they hit a threat, standard ball rounds will often punch right through and keep right on going, becoming a danger to anyone in their path beyond that, and are far more prone to richochet upon striking a hard surface if the target is missed as well, so there is also that to consider.

When I carried that little colt mustang I used Keithpoints with a much lower charge behind them, because in the inner city at most likely ranges of 5-15 feet, and in areas of poorly built low rent housing and high population density, you really don't want to blast through a threat and the next three apartments, or wind up in a tight alley with your own lead bouncing back at you.

So... very good and natural reasons for loading hollowpoint ammunition, as is common with any CCW weapon - the prosecutor was playing it up to pander to a certain ignorance (no offense intended) and draw exactly that knee-jerk reaction, which is a shifty trick as far as I am concerned.

-Frem

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 2:45 PM

OONJERAH



Thanks, Frem. I'm very relieved.

If you are at close range and shoot me anywhere in the torso
with a hollow-point, what are my chances of survival?

I will try not to go crazy after the sentence tomorrow. :)



======================
A man's gotta know how to kill and walk.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 4:30 PM

JONGSSTRAW


The jury won't get the case until late afternoon Friday. But this court is "open" over the weekend so there's a slight chance of a verdict before Monday. I believe they'll need a few days to reach a verdict unless they cannot unanimously agree one way or another.

The prosecution case for second degree murder was very weak and they knew it. So did this judge. The new manslaughter option becomes a real possibilty now because the prosecution did a decent job today with their closing arguments. Tomorrow the defense will go full tilt with the self-defense argument, but it may not be enough to convince the jury to let Zimmerman walk free.

I wish the Orange County prosecutors had done as well as these Seminole County prosecutors have when they charged Casey Anthony with murder. That jury was never given the option of a lesser charge like third degree murder or manslaughter, and because of that, Casey Anthony, a clearly depraved murderer and despicable human being walked free. This week her equally despicable parents had a garage sale and sold off their dead granddaughter's belongings.

As to the Zimmerman thing....before today I would have predicted 90% likelihood of acquittal of the murder charge. Now I think it's more like 50-50 on the manslaughter. Also, maybe a 25% chance of a hung jury.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:21 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Thanks, Frem. I'm very relieved.

If you are at close range and shoot me anywhere in the torso
with a hollow-point, what are my chances of survival?


Actually quite high, relatively speaking - if you are not instantly killed outright, 78-80% on average... which is why the idea of warning shots or shooting them in a non-vital location (not easy to do ever, and impossible in the heat of battle) is patently ridiculous when engaging a threat with a pistol.

There was a case back in 2007 in Detroit where a 7yr old child by the name of Alexis Goggins threw herself in front of her mother as a human shield when an enraged ex-boyfriend emptied a firearm at her, shooting eight times, two of which hit the mother and the child took the remaining six.
Both of them survived.

As I say, firearms are not magic wands, like hollywood would have one believe, a for real close encounter between armed opponents is as nasty and messy a business as there ever was.

-F

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Friday, July 12, 2013 5:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So once again we have our so called protectors deliberately causing chaos and carnage to justify their own existence, and the fifth estate helping them instead of shutting them down
Welcome to Egypt.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 5:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Such an inanely broad, unfocused law. By that logic, someone with agoraphobia could kill a whole bunch of people at a mall or something, and claim they were scared.
That is the whole problem with stand your ground and imperfect defense. GZ started the whole confrontation, and TM could himself easily play the imperfect defense card, had he survived. In fact, TM's defense would have been even better, since GZ approached him with a gun. Now, if anyone could argue being in fear for one's life, it would have been TM. But after the scuffle ensued, so could GZ.

The whole concept of imperfect defense rather than proportionate response provides legal justification to rapidly escalate any situation into violence, in which both parties can claim the same defense. But only the survivor can apply the defense and "win". Therefore, the lesson becomes: Leave no survivors.



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Friday, July 12, 2013 12:53 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Frem,

Adding to your assessment, I don't understand the logic behind Zimmerman's proposed fear for his life, in his feeble attempt to escape justice, when his lies points out he obviously ignored, as you correctly stated, all semblance of common sense.

What I mean is, if he was so afraid why did he leave his car? That is the question put forth by the prosecutor. Makes you wonder if he even had a car.
Several times I watched the tapes and felt, this guy is making it up as he goes. His description of the struggle for the gun, for instance. He literally tacked on, "oh, by the way, he said he was going to kill me." Wouldn't that be the number one thing out of his mouth. No, he calmly stated his claims as a matter of fact; like he was changing a tire or something.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
If I recall your posts last year, Frem ... didn't you say that

Zimmerman wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut, and he'd

convict himself by blab?

By now, I guess, there's no way his attorney would let him take

the stand.


Depends on whether his attorney really means to defend him, or intends to take a dive on purpose, and there's also what an idiot Zimmerman is, as he's fired at least one attorney rather than listen to his advice about shutting the fuck up - my exact comment was thus:
Quote:

See, from a prosecution angle, all you have to do is get this guy on the stand and start poking his fragile ego, and he'll ruin himself, lickety split - and worse, he will WANT to do it, just as his pride and ego forced that confrontation, demanded that he shoot, it will push him to tell his side of the story and "dress it up" in some logically inconsistent way that will allow a prosecutor with even a peanut for a brain (which is most of em) to completely excoriate his ass. So even if he gets a decent attorney, chances are he will no more listen to them about shutting the fuck up and staying off the stand, than he did the police dispatcher telling him not to pursue.

Really, guys like this, all you have to do is hand them a shovel, you understand ?


And in respect to Geezers stupid bullshit, one could say that's prettymuch what happened to Martin, couldn't they ? and somehow you don't have much a problem with THAT, do you - careful, you're true colors are showing.

I have ever maintained that Zimmerman is MORALLY guilty, and whether or not he is LEGALLY guilty needs be determined by a court, but since we all seem to know damn well our so-called-justice system is nothing but a fucking rubber stamp for the prison profit machine, wailing about it now does much of nothing, and again, I didn't see any fucking bitching when it railroaded kids and minorities, so maybe you should just fly that white sheet as a flag instead of wearing it, right Geeze ?

Me personally, I got an attitude about this cause it demeans MY work and profession, that which puts food on MY table, so yeah verily imma take it a bit more harsh than most would.

-Frem


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Friday, July 12, 2013 4:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, what's pissin me off about it is that the whole matter has gone far far beyond anything Zimmerman did or didn't do cause of factors external to the incident.

Firstly, there's the propaganda campaign playing both sides, riling them up and setting them at each others throats by either pandering to latent fear and racism, or alternatively stoking the outrage of folks who have perhaps some right to be, but doing so for nefarious purpose.
This isn't just the usual ratings based controversy bullshit either, this is deliberate participation and manipulation.

Now, I hold the First Amendment a little dearer than most, as I am of the mind yes you can yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, but should you do so you are then responsible for the CONSEQUENCES which result from that action - and while unlikely, I think the major media outlets should be held accountable for their part in trying to forment a situation which could spark civil unrest.

The rest of it is that there's been so much bullshit - as I pointed out initially, and was proven out on later, Zimm was a cop-wannabe and ass-kisser, and since cops love to have their fucking egos stroked, they tried to cover this shit up for him.
Most likely that was the officers who's asses he was kissin, and perhaps without the knowledge or participation of their superiors, but it is what it is, an attempted coverup, which makes THEM additionally culpable, but since of course they're treated as little tin gods immune to accountability that lets them off the hook and encourages both society and a jury to take it all out on Zimmerman, which isn't really fair.

Then there's the homeowners org letting a nutter like that self-appoint as security despite having an obvious agenda and blatant mental issues, which are SO obvious as to be undeniable, as many of you have noticed - which also begs the question of who the hell cleared this guy for CCW, when he is obviously a potential danger with one ?
But no, it ALL falls on Zimm, even shit that ain't his fault, cause everyone else slithers away from being held properly accountable.

On the OTHER side, is the USDOJ financing some of the protest marches out of their CRS fund during the period from Mar25-Apr12 2012, while one could look at it as providing a release vent and putting it under official sanction to avoid trouble starting, a more cynical eye would perhaps wonder if whipping up a frenzy and then stepping aside when things go to hell might be yet another manufactured "incident" to justify their own existence.
(Documentation now available via Judicial Watch)

Plus there is prosecutorial misconduct, not least of which is a little sleight of hand with discovery, and shifty tricks like the one I broke down regarding hollowpoint loads.

Much as it disgusts me, this compromises any concept of a Fair Trial, and begrudgingly with gritted teeth I admin that *SHOULD* mean a walkaway... but of course our so called Justice system is so rigged up this way that it's hard to feel sympathy for a guy like Zimm when folks are dropshot 24-7 for far less, and often blatantly innocent - where was this sympathy when those two PA Judges were ruining kids lives like a goddamn assembly line, you know ?

What SHOULD happen now, in a better world than ours...
Zimm cops an Alford Plea(1) by virtue of his belief that he was acting properly under the law, and the court takes this into account and convicts him of manslaughter with minimal or suspended sentence - because factually the purpose of all this is to make sure his dumb ass pays for the crime and ensure he is unlikely to do it again.
Well pulling his CCW and smacking a criminal charge on his background blacklists him from any position where that would be likely, and frankly I think the fact that he's been made a whipping boy and bit of a laughingstock by all this, along with the punitive financial burden of defending himself, is a pretty solid punishment right there given that the inevitable civil suit against him by Martins family is gonna pauperize him.

Of course, that is unlikely cause of the latent unfairness and chicanery of our current system, and there's also that if the USDOJ is trying to wind up an incident they might "lean on" the prosecutor, judge and jury members in order to get what they want - given how cherry picked that jury was left me suspicious from the get-go, to be honest.

So really, there's no "Justice" to be had here either way, and THAT more than anything else pisses me off.

-Frem
(1) Alford Plea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alford_plea

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Friday, July 12, 2013 5:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The whole concept of imperfect defense rather than proportionate response provides legal justification to rapidly escalate any situation into violence, in which both parties can claim the same defense. But only the survivor can apply the defense and "win". Therefore, the lesson becomes: Leave no survivors.


Sadly, this has been true for some time and part of the REASON it became so was homeowners in obvious cases of self defense shooting armed intruders in their own home being abused and charged for it, which was a good part of the inspiration and impulse behind those laws being created and passed, which eventually lead to the unofficial maxim within the armed community - "Leave only one story - YOURS." by virtue of necessity rather than desire.
(Excepting the nutters, which exist in any collective)

I concur that the situation is horrible, but leaving out the needless and often malicious and vengeful prosecution of cases that were blatantly and obviously self-defense which lead to these laws being supported enough to pass is not telling the whole story.

I do have a proposed solution to this, and that is a rotating Grand Jury of properly accredited firearms experts, before which ANY case involving a self-defense shoot is brought, and actually giving them latitude enough to make a real decision instead of hemming them in with rules and then handing them cherry picked or outright false (because oddly enough, it's legal for a prosecutor to BLATANTLY LIE to a Grand Jury, without penalty) information to turn them into a rubber stamp factory.

-Frem

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Friday, July 12, 2013 8:10 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Emotions Run High After MSNBC "Mistakenly" Shows Photo of Trayvon Martin's Dead Body www.christianpost.com/news/emotions-run-high-after-msnbc-mistakenly-sh
ows-photo-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body-99978
/ http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-
753370712




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The libtard commies think this photo of one dead burgler is gonna get the blackies to kill da whities for da jooies. I doubt blacks r dat stoopid, since they dont like black burglers robbing blacks either and Zimmerman is a black mexican joo.






In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China

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Friday, July 12, 2013 11:53 PM

OONJERAH



Trashing Trayvon
Zimmerman's defense tries to blame the victim for his own death

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/trashing-trayvon-article-1.1397657

<:==================================:>

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Well, what's pissin me off about it is that the whole matter has gone far far beyond anything Zimmerman did or didn't do cause of factors external to the incident.


I pretty much agree with most of what Frem wrote in that post. One of the things I disagree with is that Zimmerman has any "mental problems"; I think it's quite easy to understand him, his motivations and his actions from all we've heard without it being in any way a "mental" problem. The cop-wannabe part is pretty obvious from so many things, and his attitude is easy to understand. One doesn't have to be mentally ill to be a fool and do something stupid.

I'll leave Frem's DOJ assumptions alone, I have my own opinions on where that comes from, but beyond that, I think he's got a pretty cogent analysis of why this has gone the way it has from the very beginning.


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Saturday, July 13, 2013 11:25 AM

OONJERAH



Zimmerman's father bein' a judge would not
be a factor external to the incident?

Mental? When a person is 28, has the emotional
maturity of an 8-year-old but less objectivity,
and is wholey unteachable in regards to his own
foolishness, to me, that's a major mental problem.
Learning disorder? Ego illness?

Seems to be pretty common, tho.

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:18 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Zimmerman's a piece of crap, but I expect he's going to be free by Friday or early next week. Some people are saying they expect riots and buildings set ablaze in large urban areas. In that case I'll just sit back on my couch and watch it all on tv with a large bag of buttered popcorn and some cold beers. Should be great entertainment watching big cities burn down and property destroyed as rioters and looters run amok through the streets. But the best part of course, will be watching the faces of the race-mongering media pundits as they cover the aftermath of the monster they solely created.



If there are any large riots, it will be due to Obama ordering the cops to stand down and hide in their bunkers, in cities that are Gun Ban Victim Disarmament Kill Zones like Chicago, NYC and DC. Despite a new state law allowing concealed carry, the Democraps in Illinois are refusing to allow anyone to obey that law for another 6 months, to increase the Death Count for maximum psyop FX.






In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China


Jury says NOT guilty BTW...

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:45 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


NOT GUILTY, no surprise there.

Casey Anthony, and now George Zimmerman.

Florida.........................arm yourselves, you're gonna get shot anyway.


SGG

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:48 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


No riots, but I expect some people will begin to shoot first, worry about it later.

The South has spoken!!!


Only in America!


SGG

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 6:00 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


The prosecution pretty much bungled this trial almost from the get go. But, given that, the evidence, Zimmerman's own words and that 911 call said it all.

One thing that was pointed out on MSNBC that made perfect sense regarding the jury, they live there and would have to put up with the pressure of living with their families among the gun "enthusiasts" in the region. It wasn't media pressure, nor pressure from the trial, it was purely along racial lines.

They acquitted one of their own, simple as that.

A black kid, an unarmed black kid, in their eyes, is a threat to the community at large. There will be more of these type of cases, copycat cases, mark my words.

It is sad really, no one knows what this means to this country.


sgg

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 6:01 PM

OONJERAH


Fla. mom gets 20 years for firing warning shots

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for
-firing-warning-shots
/

What color is Fla. mom?


======================
A man's gotta know his rights in the local jurisdiction.
Your mileage may vary

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Saturday, July 13, 2013 6:04 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Retarded!

Quote:

Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:
Emotions Run High After MSNBC "Mistakenly" Shows Photo of Trayvon Martin's Dead Body www.christianpost.com/news/emotions-run-high-after-msnbc-mistakenly-sh
ows-photo-of-trayvon-martins-dead-body-99978
/ http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-
753370712




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The libtard commies think this photo of one dead burgler is gonna get the blackies to kill da whities for da jooies. I doubt blacks r dat stoopid, since they dont like black burglers robbing blacks either and Zimmerman is a black mexican joo.






In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China


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Saturday, July 13, 2013 6:20 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Frem, your reasoning is spot on. I get every word my friend.

In America, justice is not blind. I have personally been a victim.
A man can be arrested just on someone's say so (charges were dropped, my lovely ex). The cops lied and I went peacefully. Spent a night in the holding pen.

In this case, prosecutors made some rather questionable and glaring mistakes. DeLiriondo was terrible in closing, what a maroon!

I dare say that they fumbled the ball almost on purpose, or took a dive.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Well, what's pissin me off about it is that the whole matter has gone far far beyond anything Zimmerman did or didn't do cause of factors external to the incident.

Firstly, there's the propaganda campaign playing both sides, riling them up and setting them at each others throats by either pandering to latent fear and racism, or alternatively stoking the outrage of folks who have perhaps some right to be, but doing so for nefarious purpose.
This isn't just the usual ratings based controversy bullshit either, this is deliberate participation and manipulation.

Now, I hold the First Amendment a little dearer than most, as I am of the mind yes you can yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, but should you do so you are then responsible for the CONSEQUENCES which result from that action - and while unlikely, I think the major media outlets should be held accountable for their part in trying to forment a situation which could spark civil unrest.

The rest of it is that there's been so much bullshit - as I pointed out initially, and was proven out on later, Zimm was a cop-wannabe and ass-kisser, and since cops love to have their fucking egos stroked, they tried to cover this shit up for him.
Most likely that was the officers who's asses he was kissin, and perhaps without the knowledge or participation of their superiors, but it is what it is, an attempted coverup, which makes THEM additionally culpable, but since of course they're treated as little tin gods immune to accountability that lets them off the hook and encourages both society and a jury to take it all out on Zimmerman, which isn't really fair.

Then there's the homeowners org letting a nutter like that self-appoint as security despite having an obvious agenda and blatant mental issues, which are SO obvious as to be undeniable, as many of you have noticed - which also begs the question of who the hell cleared this guy for CCW, when he is obviously a potential danger with one ?
But no, it ALL falls on Zimm, even shit that ain't his fault, cause everyone else slithers away from being held properly accountable.

On the OTHER side, is the USDOJ financing some of the protest marches out of their CRS fund during the period from Mar25-Apr12 2012, while one could look at it as providing a release vent and putting it under official sanction to avoid trouble starting, a more cynical eye would perhaps wonder if whipping up a frenzy and then stepping aside when things go to hell might be yet another manufactured "incident" to justify their own existence.
(Documentation now available via Judicial Watch)

Plus there is prosecutorial misconduct, not least of which is a little sleight of hand with discovery, and shifty tricks like the one I broke down regarding hollowpoint loads.

Much as it disgusts me, this compromises any concept of a Fair Trial, and begrudgingly with gritted teeth I admin that *SHOULD* mean a walkaway... but of course our so called Justice system is so rigged up this way that it's hard to feel sympathy for a guy like Zimm when folks are dropshot 24-7 for far less, and often blatantly innocent - where was this sympathy when those two PA Judges were ruining kids lives like a goddamn assembly line, you know ?

What SHOULD happen now, in a better world than ours...
Zimm cops an Alford Plea(1) by virtue of his belief that he was acting properly under the law, and the court takes this into account and convicts him of manslaughter with minimal or suspended sentence - because factually the purpose of all this is to make sure his dumb ass pays for the crime and ensure he is unlikely to do it again.
Well pulling his CCW and smacking a criminal charge on his background blacklists him from any position where that would be likely, and frankly I think the fact that he's been made a whipping boy and bit of a laughingstock by all this, along with the punitive financial burden of defending himself, is a pretty solid punishment right there given that the inevitable civil suit against him by Martins family is gonna pauperize him.

Of course, that is unlikely cause of the latent unfairness and chicanery of our current system, and there's also that if the USDOJ is trying to wind up an incident they might "lean on" the prosecutor, judge and jury members in order to get what they want - given how cherry picked that jury was left me suspicious from the get-go, to be honest.

So really, there's no "Justice" to be had here either way, and THAT more than anything else pisses me off.

-Frem
(1) Alford Plea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alford_plea


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Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:50 PM

OONJERAH


What's next for GZ?

Not Guilty - He will get to keep his gun permit & return to his life
as a security person.

... Hmmm. Maybe he'll become Head of Security for some big company.

Maybe even a cop. :)


<: =========================================== :>

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Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sickens me, Oonj...our legal system has totally gone to shit.

Somehow I don't think he'll be hired as a security guard by anyone ever again. Or at least, I guess I sincerely HOPE not!!


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Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:56 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Fla. mom gets 20 years for firing warning shots

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for
-firing-warning-shots
/

What color is Fla. mom?


Well, I would like to point out the problem with "stand your ground" and "make my day" laws that I think applies. The problem is that, with testimony being one of the most important parts of a trial, if the party getting shot at is alive to testify, it doesn't turn into an automatic acquittal. If there's only one story to judge by, however, it more often than not won't be an issue.
Example: I live in Colorado, which has something referred to as a "make my day" law. The law states that if someone has forced their way into your home, you can respond lethally. Okay, so for the purposes of this, say that, I don't know, one of my neighbors has shot a guy who broke into his house. If the guy dies and my neighbor tells the police and the court that he was an intruder, he doesn't face any kind of murder charge at all. But say the guy lives, and claims that he's a salesman or an activist and was let into the house freely. Well, then there's conflicting stories. There's charges for attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon and a trial. (Don't forget that there was resistance against even arresting Zimmerman. Less coverage and public outrage and this case would never have gone to trial.)
This sort of thing encourages people against firing warning shots, because warning shots go into that gray area of self-defense laws, because there's more than one story. If you're claiming self-defense and your attacker claims they were just talking/arguing with you and you were the aggressor, it's trickier for the courts to decide you're telling the truth. But if you're the only witness and claim it was self-defense? Well, we can see the results.
I bet that if Trayvon Martin had lived, and been able to testify on his own behalf, and say that he had been attacked, this trial would have gone a lot longer, and probably would have different results.



What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Sunday, July 14, 2013 3:14 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:


I bet that if Trayvon Martin had lived, and been able to testify on his own behalf, and say that he had been attacked, this trial would have gone a lot longer, and probably would have different results.


One difference would have been that Zimmerman wouldn't have beed charged with murder and manslaughter under that hypothetical. A more relevant to the case hypothetical is how many more punches to the face and head slams to the ground could Zimmerman have endured before he was dead? Looks like the jury came to terms with that question.

Another interesting hypothetical is what if the Hispanic man involved in this shooting had been named Jorge Zapata or Juan Rodriguez instead of George Zimmerman? Would the shooting incident ever have been more than a 2 minute story on the local evening news?

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Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:47 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:


I bet that if Trayvon Martin had lived, and been able to testify on his own behalf, and say that he had been attacked, this trial would have gone a lot longer, and probably would have different results.


One difference would have been that Zimmerman wouldn't have beed charged with murder and manslaughter under that hypothetical.


*sigh* Duh. But, as we can learn from reading about the woman in Florida who was charged with attempted murder for discharging her weapon and not killing or hitting anyone (which is, in part, what I was trying to draw attention to) apparently the minimum sentence for that is still twenty years.
Thank you for taking my point and turning it into something else. I just can't get enough of that. [insert sarcmark here]



What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Monday, July 15, 2013 7:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


But Rose, it's JONG; the way he is now, did you expect something cogent?

Given we only have Zimmerman's WORD that he took more than one of anything (I seem to recall an expert saying the wounds to the back of his head didn't match his testimony), even his "hypothetical" is meaningless.

Give it up; we know how those joying in this verdict think; trying to communicate with them is just banging one's head against the wall.


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Monday, July 15, 2013 8:31 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
But Rose, it's JONG; the way he is now, did you expect something cogent?


Not really. There's a reason I post here about once a month instead of daily, now. I was, however, thinking that someone might have some response that actually addressed what I have pointed out about the way trials work and the laws encouraging murder and discouraging warnings or wounds.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Monday, July 15, 2013 8:31 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Thank you for taking my point and turning it into something else. I just can't get enough of that. [insert sarcmark here]


Remembering the pics you've posted here, I'll bet you can't get enough donuts either. [not sarcasm]

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Monday, July 15, 2013 10:26 AM

OONJERAH


Viewpoint: Was Zimmerman Telling the Truth? by John McWhorter

http://ideas.time.com/2013/07/15/viewpoint-was-zimmerman-telling-the-t
ruth/?xid=gonewsedit&google_editors_picks=true


"But we still will never know the truth about this key question: who
instigated the scuffle that led Zimmerman to pull out his gun? ...
But I think that Zimmerman almost certainly lied about this. I think
it for three reasons."


Oonj: I think it, because GZ's remarks to the dispatcher show that
he can see someone calmly walking down the sidewalk & decide that
someone is up to no good.

Was it GZ's sharp awareness of body language that let him spot TM's
"bad intentions"? Or did he just need a stalking fix?


======================================
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people.

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Monday, July 15, 2013 10:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Not really. There's a reason I post here about once a month instead of daily, now. I was, however, thinking that someone might have some response that actually addressed what I have pointed out about the way trials work and the laws encouraging murder and discouraging warnings or wounds.


I did actually address that, particularly the latter, but it kinda got lost in the flood - basically it boils down to the reason for these laws being a backlash against a long slew of malicious prosecutions of even blatantly obvious cases of self defense because "OMG, Guns are Eeeevvvvilll!!!!", which is admittedly an asinine way to go about it, given the proper solution to that problem would be not maliciously prosecuting folks for having dared defend themselves (costing avg of $30,000.00 even on a case drop/aquittal) so this is also a matter of the anti-gun people "shooting themself in the foot" (pun intended) by forcing the hand of the law to counter such prosecutions.

Me, I'd end-run the whole mess by having a standing Grand Jury of credentialed firearms and defense instructors before which any and every case of defensive handgun use is passed, with additional latitude to doublecheck the facts of the case, given that it's completely legal for a prosecutor to blatantly lie to a Grand Jury, and thus they'd need the ability to determine the facts for themselves before chosing to no-bill or process the case.

I do try to take a reasonable stand, even when the demands are so often unreasonable and the amount of crass goalpost-moving offensive, and have often offered solutions which meet every ADMITTED intention of both sides only to have them rejected out of hand if not ignored, so I feel your frustration, but it does enrage me that so few seem to actually realize the longterm consequences of their demands upon a system which is not the proper venue to address the root problem.

-Frem

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Monday, July 15, 2013 11:38 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

*sigh* Duh. But, as we can learn from reading about the woman in Florida who was charged with attempted murder for discharging her weapon and not killing or hitting anyone (which is, in part, what I was trying to draw attention to) apparently the minimum sentence for that is still twenty years.



I keep reading about this case. I remember we discussed it in another thread. I honestly don't understand the laws in these cases. Why would you get 20 years for self defensive action where no one had died, and aquitted when someone did. If your theory is correct, I imagine there will be more shoot to kill incidents rather than warnings.

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Friday, July 19, 2013 12:01 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Thank you for taking my point and turning it into something else. I just can't get enough of that. [insert sarcmark here]


Remembering the pics you've posted here, I'll bet you can't get enough donuts either. [not sarcasm]



That was needlessly bitchy.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 19, 2013 4:14 PM

CHRISISALL


Can we just arm everyone (who wants to be) already? No, really. No criminal record = armed. Then we can wild west it and forget about the corrupt legal system. I personally want a mini-gun. In case of kaiju, of course.

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Friday, July 19, 2013 6:28 PM

JONGSSTRAW


All You Need Is Guns - Lenin/McCarthy


Guns, guns, guns ... guns, guns, guns ... guns, guns, guns

There's nothing you can view that can't be shot.
Nothing you can sing that can't be shot.
Nothing you can shoot but you can learn how to pull the trigger.
It's easy.

There's nothing you can make that can't be shot.
No one you can save that can't be shot.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you at the range.
It's easy.

All you need is guns, everybody
All you need is guns
All you need is guns, guns
Guns are all you need.

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