REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Texas can’t afford paved roads, replaces them with gravel

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:19
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2009
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The new oil boom in Texas has come at a steep price. Heavy trucks and industrial equipment have destroyed miles of roads. Texas’ failure to collect taxes, fueled by anti-taxation rhetoric given out by corporatist puppetmasters. To resolve this issue, the state of Texas has decided to eliminate paved roads over 80 miles of state highway.

This will reduce the top speed of these roads down to 30 miles per hour, along with increased wear and tear on vehicles. Texas automobile owners, already having one of the highest costs for auto insurance in the nation, will now be facing rate increases over and above the 13% increase they faced last year alone. . We can thank Rick Perry’s push for deregulation for much of these increased costs, as cutting corners pays off in the short term, but harms the companies long-term profits.

While it may sound like a smart solution, the truth is the construction of a gravel road is something which takes a lot more work overall. Instead of a one-time paving effort with routine maintenance, gravel roads require almost constant attention, and fall apart quickly if not maintained:
Quote:

Representatives for the state’s transportation department told the Texas Tribune that construction would begin Monday on a project that involves tearing up over 80 miles of asphalt that has been severely damaged over the years due to heavy traffic brought on by even heavier machinery. An oil boom has caused an energy industry to emerge near the state’s southwest border with Mexico, but that extra business has also brought extra traffic.

Now local roads ravaged by oil-industry trucks are far too damaged to be repaired by what resources the state has, and the solution officials saw as the most affordable involves serious downgrades.

"Since paving roads is too expensive and there is not enough funding to repave them all, our only other option to make them safer is to turn them into gravel roads," Texas Department of Transportation spokesman David Glessner told the Tribune.

TxDOT Deputy John Barton announced last month that the state agency was moving forward with the plan after efforts to secure upwards of an extra $1 billion in annual funding for repairs went unanswered.

Earlier this year the department asked for $4 billion in additional funding just to maintain roads in their current condition and another $1.6 billion to address the damage brought on by the energy sector. State legislators responded by approving $450 million towards repairing county and state-owned roads effected by the oil biz. TxDOT said it needs more than double that sum on an annual basis just to maintain and repair the roads consistently damaged by oil-industry trucks.

Additionally, those new roads won’t be able to accommodate high-speed travel and will require truck drivers to slow down their pace drastically. “Instead of whipping in at 70 miles per hour, they’ll have to move in there at 30 miles per hour,” Barton told the commission, according to the Star-Telegram.

But though the state commission entertained TxDOT’s plan before putting it into place this week, local lawmakers in the areas being affected say those calling the shots neglected to confer with community members before agreeing to dig up their roads.

State Sen. Carlos Uresti (D-San Antonio) said in a statement that the agency “imposed a unilateral solution on these communities with no notice, no opportunity to seek alternative solutions, and no clear understanding of what to expect in the future.” Dimmit County, a district represented in part by Sen. Uresti, will see over 30 miles of farm-to-market roads reduced to gravel, Ian Floyd reported for the Tribune. http://rt.com/usa/texas-gravel-asphalt-txdot-748/


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:46 AM

MAL4PREZ


Remember those commercials Perry did, inviting businesses to come to Texas?

PERRY: "I want you to move your company to Texas so badly that I'll let you tear the state's infrastructure apart - and you don't have to pay taxes to fix it! If this screws over the taxpayers who actually built all that, oh well!"

Yes the taxpayers built those roads, and now have them taken away. In a rational system, companies who use the infrastructure should have to contribute to its upkeep. Not so in Texas, the state of corporate welfare.



*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Alas that problem ain't limited to TexASS, some roads here have gone that way as well.

Were it not for Congressman Dingell going personally to washington and twisting arms about it, some of our bridges WOULD have fallen down - by the time he got them to cough up a TIGER II grant, they had to close part of Stadium Ave cause chunks of concrete were literally falling out of the bottom of the bridge.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/east-stadium-bridges-risks-to-the-public-
from-falling-concrete
/
http://www.michigandaily.com/news/stadium-bridge-reconstruction-moves-
toward-october-start-date


Of course this is partly complicated by SOME local authorities not wanting to fix the roads even when there is money cause that is their last straw of an excuse to have the speed limits set illegally low to drive up ticket revenue - which is triply enraging cause that issue was one of the REASONS the Feds were so reluctant to cough up a TIGER II grant, and the logic that said ticket income is supposed to be used to... what ?
FIX THE BLOODY ROADS!
But no, instead they *don't* fix the roads and present a dangerous situation to drive up ticket income which goes... where, exactly ?
Not welcome at local townhalls anymore for asking THAT question, and they didn't give me an answer.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/ann-arbor-needs-to-get-up-to-spee
d-on-its-speed-limits-along-main-roads
/

So it's not always the big guys, sometimes the little guys on the local end are every bit as guilty of bastardy and chicanery, but on the plus side you can actually go hassle them in person.
The culture of corruption does rot from the top down though, I'll give you that.

-F

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Asphalt is made from what ?

Oil.

The Left should be PRAISING Texas for its green awareness.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:26 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I live on a gravel road and I can tell you they take a lot of maintenance as well as being tough on cars. And these aren't major roads, but little slow ones in the back blocks.

The council has to come and fix them up many times per year. They wash away in the rain (and end up on our block), get pocked and rutted very easily. In Summer they have to be coated with something that minimises the dust, otherwise your house and car ends up like something from toughmudders.

Silly short term solution that'll end up costing more in the long run.. Not to mention the danger element of a gravel highway.

Additionally, why shouldn't business have to cough up for infrastructure?

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Asphalt is made from what ?


Bituminous rock, concrete, mineral products, and even tires, some of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubberized_asphalt

Seriously, go read a book, LEARN something, hell EAT the damn thing, maybe learn by osmosis, or one could hope.

Oh, and if you thought TexASS would bad, this little bit gives a whole new meaning to the words...(wait for it) ...Highway Robbery.
http://news.sky.com/story/1124691/russian-man-arrested-for-stealing-en
tire-road


-Frem

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:29 PM

WHOZIT


Yea I gotta go with the libs on this one, my old boss would sometimes send me to a company near by with a gravel road to pick up some paper work, I'll never forget the *tink*tink*tink* sound the gravel made bouncing off my paint job. Sometimes the little gravel pebbles would get stuck in the treads of my tires and make that *clack*clack* noise for miles.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Asphalt -
a sticky, black and highly viscous liquid or semi-solid form of petroleum . It may be found in natural deposits or may be a refined product; it is a substance classed as a pitch. Until the 20th century, the term asphaltum was also used


Do you need to be told what PETROLEUM is too ??

Good grief.

Asphalt concrete is a separate product, combining asphalt and other elements, like aggregate.

Lucky for you stupid isn't painful.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:06 PM

MAL4PREZ


LOL! Way to go off topic and miss the point.

Apparently, according to RapLogic, if my industry produces an ingredient in a product than I have a right to destroy that product and not replace it.

Hey Rappy, I produced the glass that makes up your TV screen, computer screen, and smartphone screen. (Really I didn't, for those overliteral nitpickers. You know who you are. It's hypothetical.) So I'll be over tonight to smash those to bits and I'm sure you won't mind, right?

Back to the point: this is exactly what Obama meant when he said: "You didn't build that." Those roads that consumers use to get to places of businesses, that businesses use to ship products about, are not built by the companies themselves. Plainly, the TX oil industry has no interest in fixing the damage they did. Hence: there must be taxes to support the infrastructure. This is what made the US a powerhouse post WWII. It is why we are declining now, because the 1% (those in TX for sure!) are taking all they can out of the system without investing back to ensure future growth.

Wow, still astonished at how off topic Rappy goes. WTH does it matter how much petroleum product is in various kinds of pavement? The point is: you use it, you pay for it. You break it, you pay for it. This SHOULD apply to corporations as much as it does to individuals.

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:14 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Gonna be real interesting if they ever try to drive those asphalt-busting big oil trucks over the new gravel roads. Prolly sink clear up to their fenders.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:16 PM

MAL4PREZ


Let me just guess the next few posts to save us some time:

Rappy: Stop hating on oil! It makes paved roads possible so we can't just shut the industry down.

Me: OK, who suggested shutting anything down? Could you point out where that happened in this thread?

Rappy: *ignores question* And quit lying about my posts. My point has nothing to do with some crazy liberal smashing my TV.

Me: So what was your point? You brought up the petroleum content of pavement as if it excuses the damage the industry has done. Is that not what you meant?

Rappy: You crazy liberals industry haters just want to destroy America!

Me: *sigh*

etc...

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I was saying stop hating on TEXAS.

You have confused what I said and interjected something I never did say.

Of course i'm not gonna answer a question posed on a false premise from something which wasn't my point in the first place.

Carry on.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:51 PM

MAL4PREZ


LOL! Did I call it or what?

And what does the petroleum content of pavement have to do with hating on Texas? Sheesh! RapClarity there.


*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:53 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Asphalt is made from what ?

Oil.

The Left should be PRAISING Texas for its green awareness.



Wow. Always count on the raptard to interject the dumbest goddamned thing possible.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:27 PM

MAL4PREZ


Anyhow, isn't the exact situation that's been brought up multiple hypothetical times in libertarian discussions?

A community of folk pool their resources to build a useful resource: nicely paved roads. Another party makes use of those roads and destroys them. Now, according to our libertarians, that other party ought to care enough for the greater good and the higher principles of fairness and ethical living enough to repair the damage they did.

Right?

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:07 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yer on a roll, Mal4!

"hell EAT the damn thing, maybe learn by osmosis, or one could hope."

Prize for first guffaw of the day...good thing I've now got one of those little thermoses with a button on the top you push to drink out of, or somebody would owe me a keyboard! Also good thing said thermoses are metal and unbreakable, 'cuz it hit the floor after the keyboard and my lap...

I would bother to mention that not all roads are paved with asphalt, or just asphalt anymore, and there's a lot of recycled material being used. But I know that would go "zing!" right over some people's heads, so I'll just offer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_surface

California's a leader, and big on recycled materials in paving:
Quote:

Most of us have heard the phrase “Where the rubber meets the road.” In recent years, increasing amounts of crumb rubber from recycled tires have been added into the road in the form of thin rubber modified hot mix asphalt (HMA) surface courses or rubber modified spray applications used as pavement interlayers or surface treatments. Several states and local agencies are now using rubber modified pavement systems as a significant part of their pavement preservation strategy. California actually has a legislated mandate calling for the use of increasing amounts of reclaimed rubber in pavements over future years. This trend has resulted in rubber modified products that have performed well in reducing crack reflection, improving wet weather safety, and reducing pavement noise. It has also helped solve the very serious problem of waste tire disposal



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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
LOL! Did I call it or what?



Well, when you create your own narrative, separate from what I was saying, of COURSE you call it. Duh!

Quote:


And what does the petroleum content of pavement have to do with hating on Texas? Sheesh! RapClarity there.





Perhaps you're reading posts directed at others ? The answer IS in this thread, btw.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:09 AM

STORYMARK


This is the kind of thread that illustrates how deeply entrenched rappy is. Its obvious that the Oil companies should be covering their own damages.

But rather than admit that those on the left have a point, he embraces ideology and "the team" over common sense.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:28 PM

WHOZIT



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Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:45 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Its obvious that the Oil companies should be covering their own damages. "

In a nutshell.
Quote:

Energy boom brings wear and tear to area's county, state roads

Trucks hauling tons of oil drilling equipment, water tankers and other industrial rigs are vital to the oil boom across West Texas, but can be too much for some area roads — especially unpaved ones.

The heavy traffic has prompted counties like Gaines and Dawson to spend additional money to upgrade or repair county roads

Doug Isaacs, road superintendent for Dawson County, said some of the nearly 950 miles of unpaved Dawson County roads have taken a beating or have been under-equipped to handle the extra demand.

“Sometimes the big fracking trucks get stuck in the sand (on the unpaved roads),” he said.

Nearly 1,200 loaded trucks are needed to bring just one gas well into production — the traffic equivalent to roughly 8 million cars, according to the Texas Department of Transportation’s Roads for Texas Energy Task Force. For example, Endeavor Energy has more than 4,800 wells in Dawson County, according to OGI mapping and data management services. http://lubbockonline.com/regional/2013-01-09/energy-boom-brings-wear-a
nd-tear-areas-county-state-roads#.Uhafy4nn-DY




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Friday, August 23, 2013 12:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
This is the kind of thread that illustrates how deeply entrenched rappy is. Its obvious that the Oil companies should be covering their own damages.

But rather than admit that those on the left have a point, he embraces ideology and "the team" over common sense.



actually, I don't know that. The story has been spun and bought, hook, line and sinker. I don't know , for example, if these roads were solely chewed up by heavy oil company equipment, or suffered the normal wear and tear of use and the elements.

I don't dismiss it, out of hand , either, but I'm not so blinded by hate and rage of " BIG OIL " to buy such claims at face value.

It's called being skeptical.

And if Texas needs to rethink how they deal w/ the oil companies, then that's for them to decide. I don't get the point of having a conniption fit over this matter. It's a Texas issue. Let them figure it out.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, August 23, 2013 8:53 AM

STORYMARK


No one had a "conniption fit" you moron.

You are the one and only person to stick up for the poor, downtrodden Oil Company, yet didn't speak a word to their responsibility.... untill shamed into it.

You're not fooling anyone. You're a "skeptic" in the way Glenn Beck is - completely partisan, and bat-shit crazy.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Saturday, August 24, 2013 12:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



It's cute how you think I was 'shamed' into anything.

Nice window into your way of " thinking " .


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 24, 2013 6:40 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


You're kidding, right?


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Asphalt is made from what ?

Oil.

The Left should be PRAISING Texas for its green awareness.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, August 24, 2013 6:42 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Osmosis!?...........you think that would help?

lol..............Frem, you're too much.....;-)


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Asphalt is made from what ?


Bituminous rock, concrete, mineral products, and even tires, some of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubberized_asphalt

Seriously, go read a book, LEARN something, hell EAT the damn thing, maybe learn by osmosis, or one could hope.

Oh, and if you thought TexASS would bad, this little bit gives a whole new meaning to the words...(wait for it) ...Highway Robbery.
http://news.sky.com/story/1124691/russian-man-arrested-for-stealing-en
tire-road


-Frem


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Saturday, August 24, 2013 6:45 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Lucky for you stupid isn't painful.

You must have stock in Tylenol......lol (I kill me!!!)


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Asphalt -
a sticky, black and highly viscous liquid or semi-solid form of petroleum . It may be found in natural deposits or may be a refined product; it is a substance classed as a pitch. Until the 20th century, the term asphaltum was also used


Do you need to be told what PETROLEUM is too ??

Good grief.

Asphalt concrete is a separate product, combining asphalt and other elements, like aggregate.

Lucky for you stupid isn't painful.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, August 24, 2013 6:50 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Who was hating on Texas. Don't they pay taxes like everyone else?
Someone enlighten me!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I was saying stop hating on TEXAS.

You have confused what I said and interjected something I never did say.

Of course i'm not gonna answer a question posed on a false premise from something which wasn't my point in the first place.

Carry on.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, August 24, 2013 7:04 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


It's not just a Texas issue. Didn't you hear the president? Look who I'm asking.

Forgive my ignorance guys. I thought I was talking to someone who thinks in a logical manner. The president said that infrastructure, like roads and bridges, is important to our American way of life. And precisely, almost eerily, he was right.

Imagine, if you will, that an oil truck can't make it through the shitty roads in Texas to deliver their product outside the Texas borders because they can't get out. No oil delivery, no money for the benevolent oil companies.

Imagine further, that neighboring states to the east, west and north won't allow Texas oil deliveries because the shitty roads in Texas can't support the weight of their states businesses to deliver goods for sale in Texas.
Causing grief for Texans, as well as, their businesses. Where would this country be? Well, exactly where we are today.

Mainly because of people with your type of thinking. Who cares about the price of oil in Texas. Who cares about the conditions of the roads. Why should Texans pay taxes? Why should Texas-based businesses pay taxes?
It's the old trickle up theory.


SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by STORYMARK:
This is the kind of thread that illustrates how deeply entrenched rappy is. Its obvious that the Oil companies should be covering their own damages.

But rather than admit that those on the left have a point, he embraces ideology and "the team" over common sense.



actually, I don't know that. The story has been spun and bought, hook, line and sinker. I don't know , for example, if these roads were solely chewed up by heavy oil company equipment, or suffered the normal wear and tear of use and the elements.

I don't dismiss it, out of hand , either, but I'm not so blinded by hate and rage of " BIG OIL " to buy such claims at face value.

It's called being skeptical.

And if Texas needs to rethink how they deal w/ the oil companies, then that's for them to decide. I don't get the point of having a conniption fit over this matter. It's a Texas issue. Let them figure it out.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:19 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Texas is broke

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