REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Scientists now 95 percent certain we are mostly to blame

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 05:58
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Since 1951, Earth's climate has warmed by about 0.6 degrees Celsius, and researchers assessing the state of climate science for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) are 95 percent certain that more than half of the warming is due to human emissions of greenhouse gases.

The statement is one conclusion in the final draft of a summary the IPCC is preparing for world policymakers on the state of the climate and climate science as part of its fifth assessment report on global warming.

The IPCC will release the full four-volume set and related summaries beginning at the end of September and into next year. The other volumes deal with current and projected effects of climate change.

The summary on climate and climate science will get word-by-word scrutiny at a meeting in Stockholm Sept. 23-26 as politicians and scientists arm-wrestle over the final text.

In the meantime, it gives clear insights into what scientists see happening to the planet's climate as human industrial activities, as well as land-use changes, pump increasing amounts of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the air.

In some areas, certainty over what is happening has increased since the IPCC published its last set of reports in 2007. Certainty over the human role has increase from "very likely" to "extremely likely," a verbal shift representing 90 percent certainly in 2007 to 95 percent for this round of reports.

The draft notes that despite the relentless build-up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the rate of warming over the past 15 years has been small compared with warming between 1951 and 2012, suggesting that within an overall warming that began in the first decade of the 1900s, the climate system still displays substantial variability on time scales of a decade or so.

When the increases in the atmospheric concentrations of CO2 are combined with those of other greenhouse gases, such as methane and nitrous oxide, the overall concentrations are the highest in at least 800,000 years. The current rates of increase in these gases "are unprecedented in the last 22,000 years," the draft states.

The recent pause in the rate of increase in warming has left researchers scurrying to unravel the mystery. The upper layers of the earth’s oceans are a lead suspect for absorbing more heat that otherwise would remain in the atmosphere.

Still, each of the past three decades have been warmer than all of the previous decades since the mid-1850s, when regular record-keeping began, the draft says. The first decade of this century topped them all. The past 30 years have "very likely" been the warmest in the past 800 years, and "likely" the warmest three decades in the past 1,400 years.

The IPCC reports represent scientific time capsules. They provide an overview of the state of the science, but the research is more than a year old by the time the volumes hit the streets. Because these reports are influential, this lag has led to criticisms that their conclusions can be too conservative.

For instance, when the first working group's volume was released in 2007, researchers criticized it for failing to include in its sea-level projections the contributions from melting ice sheets in West Antarctica and Greenland. The working group didn't include those because they weren't well understood. Yet research published after the deadline for that report indicated that the melting appeared to be increasing.

This time around, Greenland and Antarctica have reappeared in the mix. The draft's authors suggest that under the worst-case emissions scenario the modelers considered, global sea levels could rise by up to 1 meter by the end of the century, about two centimeters higher than the top of the range offered in 2007.

The IPCC authors also have modified their entries on tropical cyclones between this final draft, and an earlier draft leaked in December. The earlier draft indicated that the number of tropical storms, hurricanes, and typhoons globally are likely to hold steady or decrease, while the frequency of the most-intense storms are more likely than not expected to increase. The final draft reduced that to a chart entry indicating that increases in intense tropical-cyclone activity are more likely than not by century's end.

But that perspective may be changing.

A study published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in early July found that the number of tropical cyclones is likely to increase globally by the end of the century, in addition to intensifying.

The study, which used the output from upgraded models used for this new round of IPCC reports, was conducted by Kerry Emanuel, a tropical climate specialist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Mass.

In addition, the IPCC draft acknowledges that its projections could get thrown off by events that are difficult, if not impossible, to predict so far in advance. Volcanic eruptions represent one kind of natural event whose lofting of sulfur dioxide high into the stratosphere can create tiny particles that can have a temporary cooling effect. Solar activity is another wild card.

This has prompted some researchers to explore the potential impact of these "forcings," especially solar variability, on global warming's future.

Solar physicists have been looking at trends in sun-spot behavior and characteristics over the past decade and have raised the possibility that when the current sun-spot cycle peaks in the next few months, the sun could enter an unusually long period where it generates few, if any sunspots.

Some climate scientists have looked at the potential impact of such an event and concluded that it likely would delay additional global warming – but only until the sun returned to more-normal swings in sun-spot activity.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0820/Climate-change-Scientis
ts-now-95-percent-certain-we-are-mostly-to-blame


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:28 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So what?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Here's " so what " ... IT'S NOT TRUE !

Global Warming Alarmists Caught Doctoring '97-Percent Consensus' Claims


Global warming alarmists and their allies in the liberal media have been caught doctoring the results of a widely cited paper asserting there is a 97-percent scientific consensus regarding human-caused global warming. After taking a closer look at the paper, investigative journalists report the authors’ claims of a 97-pecent consensus relied on the authors misclassifying the papers of some of the world’s most prominent global warming skeptics. At the same time, the authors deliberately presented a meaningless survey question so they could twist the responses to fit their own preconceived global warming alarmism.

...

Misleading the public about consensus opinion regarding global warming, of course, is precisely what the Cook paper sought to accomplish. This is a tried and true ruse perfected by global warming alarmists. Global warming alarmists use their own biased, subjective judgment to misclassify published papers according to criteria that is largely irrelevant to the central issues in the global warming debate. Then, by carefully parsing the language of their survey questions and their published results, the alarmists encourage the media and fellow global warming alarmists to cite these biased, subjective, totally irrelevant surveys as conclusive evidence for the lie that nearly all scientists believe humans are creating a global warming crisis.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alar
mists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims
/
...

Investigative journalists at Popular Technology looked into precisely which papers were classified within Cook’s asserted 97 percent. The investigative journalists found Cook and his colleagues strikingly classified papers by such prominent, vigorous skeptics as Willie Soon, Craig Idso, Nicola Scafetta, Nir Shaviv, Nils-Axel Morner and Alan Carlin as supporting the 97-percent consensus.

...from 112 omitted papers, one strongly endorses AGW and 111 are neutral"

Morner: "Certainly not correct and certainly misleading. The paper is strongly against AGW, and documents its absence in the sea level observational facts. Also, it invalidates the mode of sea level handling by the IPCC."


http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/05/97-study-falsely-classifies-s
cientists.html#Update2



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:47 AM

WHOZIT


I'm 100% certain these people are full of shit.

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 6:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The problem with rappy's post is IT'S NOT TRUE!

There are at least two different surveys being discussed.

The first one (cited by NIKI) is of
Quote:

researchers assessing the state of climate science for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)... are 95 percent certain that more than half of the warming is due to human emissions of greenhouse gases.


The second survey (cited by RAPPY) is by
Quote:

John Cook ... Skeptical Science, published a paper with several other global warming alarmists claiming they reviewed nearly 12,000 abstracts of studies published in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
Pointing to one survey to discredit another is, well... dishonest.


------------------------


However, of the John Cook paper (the one RAPPY has such difficulty with), the abstract is quite clear:
Quote:

“We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11,944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics ‘global climate change’ or ‘global warming’. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. [ Not that humans are causing all, or most, but just "some" global warming] In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus. For both abstract ratings and authors’ self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research.”


The Popular Technology article cited by RAPPY then goes on to quote four scientists at length who feel that their papers were misclassified. One of them grotches about the IPCC panel "What my papers say is that the IPCC view is erroneous", one of them says “I couldn’t write these things more explicitly in the paper because of the refereeing (apparently the classifiers are supposed to do a bit of mind-reading), and two of them objected that their papers had been erroneously classified as "no position" when in fact they had taken a position against.

Now, first of all, the only way that these scientists could have even KNOWN how their papers were rated, specifically, was if they had been provided the information by the author (Cook) and then allowed to rate themselves. Even in the self-rated papers, the number expressing the consensus opinion is still 97%+. So, they get to re=rate their own papers and also openly opine on the survey. I think that's fair.

But, to be honest, as far as these four scientists are concerned, even if each of these scientists was responsible for 100 papers, the conclusion would change by (4*100)/11944 = vanishingly small.

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 6:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The article Rap puts up makes no sense. It states itself
Quote:

The question Cook and his alarmist colleagues surveyed was simply whether humans have caused some global warming. The question is meaningless regarding the global warming debate because most skeptics as well as most alarmists believe humans have caused some global warming.


In the paper Forbes is knocking, it says clearly:
Quote:

We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11?944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics 'global climate change' or 'global warming'. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article]


So their entire argument is about the word "some".

The conclusion reached by the paper in question is as follows:
Quote:

Contributing to this 'consensus gap' are campaigns designed to confuse the public about the level of agreement among climate scientists. In 1991, Western Fuels Association conducted a $510?000 campaign whose primary goal was to 'reposition global warming as theory (not fact)'. A key strategy involved constructing the impression of active scientific debate using dissenting scientists as spokesmen (Oreskes 2010).

The narrative presented by some dissenters is that the scientific consensus is '...on the point of collapse' (Oddie 2012) while '...the number of scientific "heretics" is growing with each passing year' (Allègre et al 2012). A systematic, comprehensive review of the literature provides quantitative evidence countering this assertion. The number of papers rejecting AGW is a miniscule proportion of the published research, with the percentage slightly decreasing over time. Among papers expressing a position on AGW, an overwhelming percentage (97.2% based on self-ratings, 97.1% based on abstract ratings) endorses the scientific consensus on AGW.



How Forbes twisted that around is beyond me, but of course the business community has a vested interest in people not believing that global warming even EXISTS, so it's in their interests to take that position. I don't see anywhere in the paper that it says global warming is 100% caused by humans, which seems to be what Forbes is accusing them of saying.

None of that has anything to do with the article I posted, which is from the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). The IPCC is a United Nations group that is the planet's pre-eminent climate organization, which issues reports every few years about the effects of global warming. I don't know who Cook is and I've not read anything from his "Skeptical Science" blog previously, so I'm not sure what that has to do with the IPCC's report.

The author of the article Rap put up, James Taylor, is part of the Heartland Institute:
Quote:

The Heartland Institute is an American conservative and libertarian[2] public policy think tank based in Chicago, which states that it advocates free market policies.

In the 1990s, the group worked with the tobacco company Philip Morris to question serious cancer risks to secondhand smoke, and to lobby against government public-health reforms.[12][13][14] More recently, the Institute has focused on questioning the science of human-caused climate change, and was described by the New York Times as "the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism."[15] The Institute has sponsored meetings of climate change skeptics,[16] and has been reported to promote public school curricula challenging the scientific consensus on human-caused climate change.

MediaTransparency reported that Heartland received funding from politically conservative foundations such as the Castle Rock Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the John M. Olin Foundation, and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation.[47] In 2011, the Institute received $25,000 from the Charles G. Koch Foundation.

Oil and gas companies have contributed to the Heartland Institute, including over $600,000 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005.[49] Greenpeace reported that Heartland received almost $800,000 from ExxonMobil.[23] In 2008, ExxonMobil said that they would stop funding to groups skeptical of climate warming, including Heartland.

The Heartland Institute has also received funding and support from tobacco companies Philip Morris,[36] Altria and Reynolds American, and pharmaceutical industry firms GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer and Eli Lilly.[45] State Farm Insurance, USAA and Diageo are former supporters.[52] The Independent reported that Heartland's receipt of donations from Exxon and Philip Morris indicates a "direct link"..."between anti-global warming sceptics funded by the oil industry and the opponents of the scientific evidence showing that passive smoking can damage people's health." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute




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Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The AGW cultists will ignore parts they don't like, especially where the scientists themselves say the study is flawed, and deceptive.

*shrug*

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And the AGW deniers will ignore everything EXCEPT the parts they like (which means they'll ignore 98% of the evidence), especially when most scientists say the problem is real. And they'll lie to do it.

SHRUG.

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The 'evidence' is tainted by biased manipulative sources.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 11:13 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The 'evidence' is tainted by biased an (sic) manipulative sources."

Yes, it's an international conspiracy including scientists from the US, Canada, Mexico, Switzerland, England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Russia, China, Japan, Argentina, Chile, Australia, New Zealand, India, Malaysia, the Philippines - in fact every country on the planet.

Gotta' watch those scientists. Just about every one is biased and manipulative. And they're all in it together. To get us.



As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.


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Sunday, August 25, 2013 11:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



when the bulk of their research $ comes from Left wing groups and or govt funding, which is highly inundated with big collectivist ideologues, it's really not that big of a conspiracy. It's a bit like teachers paying homage to teachers unions, because the result is a better salary for themselves, and screw teaching the kids.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 25, 2013 11:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You really don't know how research gets funded either in the US or other countries - do you?

I challenge you - name me a "Left wing group" that funds "the bulk of" the research in any country - your choice. Name me the source of funding in Japan. Show me evidence that "the bulk of" the research has cooked the data, over all these decades, over the globe.

Otherwise, what you have are opinions, which you - yet again - seem to think are facts.


As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.


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Sunday, August 25, 2013 7:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

when the bulk of their research $ comes from Left wing group [sic] ...
Really? 'Cause I'd like to get my hands on some of that left-wing money! I'm sure there's a lot more of THAT money than there is of right-wing money, wouldn't you say?

(Sheesh!)

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Monday, August 26, 2013 3:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


George Soros? There's a nice start.

And Sig, I didn't reference any other study which wasn't referenced already from the article in Forbes.

Any problem you have with either is with them, not with me .

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 26, 2013 3:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


George Soros funds "the bulk of" scientific research in the US? Or, to reduce your claim to far more modest (and achievable) numbers, "the bulk of" global warming research funding in the US?

Tell me - how much funding does Soros personally supply? And what is the total funding?


As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM

MAL4PREZ

And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM

little rappy


The term applies.


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Monday, August 26, 2013 4:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kiki, you're banging your head against a wall. I posted a taste of what funds the group Rap linked, and there's tons more regarding right-wing and "business interest" money funding global-warming denial. Obviously governments aren't normally that hot on changing the status quo or doing anything which impinges on business, so his claim that government-funded science is all left-wing is bullshit. Considering the number of different countries involved, it's obviously a pretty silly claim.

Cook's site, the guy his article goes after, is totally self-funded. There's funding on both sides, always is, but I would imagine it's FAR outweighed on the right. You only have to think about it; the MONEY is on the right, Big Oil, Big Business, etc., and they're the ones who don't want things to change. "Soros" is their buzz word; there's far more evidence of the scads of money the Kochs have spread around, from Heritage to candidates to everywhere else that furthers their interests. It's not a debate he'll ever have, he'll just keep tossing out snarks and talking points. They're all he knows.


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Monday, August 26, 2013 5:08 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I have four positive things to say about his post:

1) he answered my question

2) it was extremely short

3) it was entertaining

4) he didn't call anybody names.

It gets kinda' grim around here sometimes. With all the real world real awful life-and-death problems like overpopulation and deep economic disparities and Fukushima and global warming that seem to have no solutions anyone is willing to do, this kind of debate is all frothy fun.

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Monday, August 26, 2013 5:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And Sig, I didn't reference any other study which wasn't referenced already from the article in Forbes.
This is where the temptation to start calling names is so great, that if we were in a face-to-face I'd be biting my tongue so hard blood would be running into my shirt. So, let me spell this out for you as simply as I can.

NIKI quoted CSN monitor ... which said, btw, NOT that 95% of scientists think that humans are mostly to blame, but that scientists are 95% certain. It may seem a fine point, but it's an important one: The first statement (95 out of 100 scientists agree that...) is a matter of POLLING. The second statment - the actual statement in NIKI'S cite ( human are to blame with a 95% probability) is a matter of TEMPERATURE DATA STATISTICS. They are derived by different procedures from different completely kinds of data.

YOU, otoh, "refuted" her post by quoting FORBES, about an entirely different study- a poll. Do I have to detail how this is a bogus approach? Ok, I will...

That would be a little like you pointing to Field and Stream and saying "Yep, scientists are 95 % certain that trout fishing is going to be good this year" and me "refuting" that post by pointing to Forbes and saying "Yep, 97% of scientists don't like to fish. That's a bogus study"

One has little to do with the other. If you want to refute NIKI'S post, you have to refute NIKI'S post.... not drag up irrelevant stuff from elsewhere.

In any case, as far as I can tell, even YOUR cite doesn't have a leg to stand on. The author that you criticized (Cook) actually gave the original scientists a chance to self-rate their own abstracts, and the oportunity to refute or comment on the results. The self-rating hardly changed the results, and out of 11,944 abstracts, there were only 4 scientists who felt misrepresented on a few abstracts? Yanno, I've been in the minority in scientific (and political) discussion before, and even from THAT viewpoint - as far as process goes - you can't get much fairer than the one that Cook used. He was far fairer to the AGW deniers that they are to everyone else.

And certainly far fairer and more honest than you.

BTW- Rappy, you would do yourself a lot of good if you respond directly to the point that someone else is making, instead of just tossing barely-related talking points up on the board. You reduce your credibility ... and the readers' general opinion of you logic skills... considerably when you make such blunders. You are far stronger when you quote the actual dissidents and their viewpoints. Rather than making cheap logical points, I actually have to go and look shit up. OTOH, when I DO look shit up, it would be a far stronger argument if you responded on-point to that. Just an FYI.

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Monday, August 26, 2013 5:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Sig, that was an excellent analysis.

As to why Rap put up what he did, surely you already know. He saw a story that "alarmist" global-warming scientists had been "debunked": BINGO! That's all that was involved; he's Pavlovian when it comes to anything about global warming, and "so what?" was equally reflexive, but when he found THAT, oh, boy, that's SO much better!

There is no equivalency, there is no debating with facts and figures, it's all visceral. So is the "Soros" stuff, and everything else he posted on the issue. I've long accepted that. Yes, I appreciate, now that you mention it, the lack of "stupid" snarks; amazing how you don't notice something when it's not there. It's a nice change of pace.


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Monday, August 26, 2013 6:58 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Sig, Rap could be forgiven his misunderstanding if the numbers were the same, but they're not - one is 95% and the other is 97%. It goes to show how lazy his thinking is on this issue. I've been down this road with Rap before - he'll just post articles without reading them and checking that they refute what he thinks they're refuting. I remember one time he tried to argue against the significance of CO2 by posting an article with the title 'Methane could be more important in climate change than CO2'. A quick read of the article (it was short) showed that it was talking about the role methane was projected to play if Arctic/Siberian permafrosts melted - hence, methane could play a bigger role than CO2 - in the future.

But not only did he not read the article he posted, when I called him on it he still didn't read it, and refused to accept that it didn't mean what he wanted it to. It's #4 on my all-time list of mind-blowing Auraptor encounters.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, August 26, 2013 7:58 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I'm sorry. I agree with the subject, but every time I read the header, all I can think of is Yogi Berra: "Ninety percent of this game is half mental..."

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Monday, August 26, 2013 9:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


KPO - It doesn't matter because AGW is a fraud. Fussing over 95% this or 97% that, is pointless.

You can cite lazy thinking all you want, but at the end of the day, it's all moot.

There is no basis for AGW.

You can personally attack me all you want. No matter what evidence I post, nothing I say will sway you from your views, so ( insert screeching Hillary voice ) what difference does it make ?

None.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 26, 2013 10:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"It doesn't matter because AGW is a fraud. Fussing over 95% this or 97% that, is pointless. You can cite lazy thinking all you want, but at the end of the day, it's all moot."

Translation:

"My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts."

Got it.



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Monday, August 26, 2013 11:43 AM

STORYMARK


Yep, pretty much.

"I don't care about the evidence or facts or reality! Im going to believe what I wanna!!

And the boy believes hard.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, August 26, 2013 1:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!




Picard = Deniers

Cardassian = AGW crowd.



Despite what you claim to be true, there are FOUR lights !

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 26, 2013 1:34 PM

STORYMARK


Poor, silly rappy. He's gone full wulftard, thinking that a piece of video proves his fantasy right. No evidence, just his "say so" and a clip of classic, expertly-executed *fiction*.

Believe hard, boy. Belief is literally all you have.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, August 26, 2013 2:52 PM

MAL4PREZ


Eviscerated, definition:

What happened to Rappy on this thread.

These are the kinds of discussions that make me think that he is a sock with no other purpose but to make himself look ridiculous. I mean, really!

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Monday, August 26, 2013 8:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


deleted

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Monday, August 26, 2013 8:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You can personally attack me all you want.


I believe what I said was
Quote:

BTW- Rappy, you would do yourself a lot of good if you respond directly to the point that someone else is making, instead of just tossing barely-related talking points up on the board. You reduce your credibility ... and the readers' general opinion of you logic skills... considerably when you make such blunders. You are far stronger when you quote the actual dissidents and their viewpoints. Rather than making cheap logical points, I actually have to go and look shit up. OTOH, when I DO look shit up, it would be a far stronger argument if you responded on-point to that. Just an FYI.
Is that a personal attack?

Quote:

No matter what evidence I post, nothing I say will sway you from your views,
No, that's not true. I actually looked up the whole "climategate" issue (It had to do with the ring-growth of one tree in Siberia) and the lag between carbon dioxide and temperature in the ice cores. You see, I WANT to know if there's a flaw in the data.

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Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


LIke when I quote this guy?

Investigative journalists at Popular Technology looked into precisely which papers were classified within Cook’s asserted 97 percent. The investigative journalists found Cook and his colleagues strikingly classified papers by such prominent, vigorous skeptics as Willie Soon, Craig Idso, Nicola Scafetta, Nir Shaviv, Nils-Axel Morner and Alan Carlin as supporting the 97-percent consensus.


Morner: "Certainly not correct and certainly misleading. The paper is strongly against AGW, and documents its absence in the sea level observational facts. Also, it invalidates the mode of sea level handling by the IPCC."


Where they classified his work inaccurately ?

Oh, you'll gloss over such points, and then make back handed references to my " logic skills " , in a thinly veiled swipe at my intelligence.

Because only "stoopid" people deny AGW, right ?

Spare me.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap has turned this into a debate on the article HE put up; the author of which and the source of which I have called into question. He has thereby threadjacked the issue nicely into an argument with him about a supposed debunking of one article by someone not in the scientific community by an author and source highly funded by anti-manmade-global-warming advocates, rather than any consideration of the original material by respected climate scientific authorities from many different countries. I'm not going to debate what he thinks the article he puts up "shows" further, particularly because, as far as I've been able to make out, the "argument" is about whether the numbers in question support global warming as created by man, or "some" of it created by man.

Anyone is free to follow where he's trying to lead his threadjack rather than dealing with the actual topic of this thread; I am not.


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Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:58 AM

STORYMARK


Hilarious, he says his article is being glossed over, when it was discussed in detail. Crassic!




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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