REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"Breaking News": SENATE DEAL REACHED

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, October 17, 2013 17:04
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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:52 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Washington (CNN) - Senate leaders on Wednesday announced a deal to end the partial government shutdown and avoid a possible U.S. default as soon as the end of this week, and a key GOP conservative said he wouldn't try to block the measure.

The news of a deal brought some relief to Wall Street as well as Washington, where the shutdown reached a 16th day with the government poised to lose its ability to borrow more money to pay bills on Thursday.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid hailed the agreement he worked out with his GOP counterpart Mitch McConnell as "historic," saying that "in the end, political adversaries put aside their differences."

Now the question becomes whether the agreement can win approval in the Senate and then the House to reach President Barack Obama's desk, perhaps by the end of Wednesday to ensure there is enough cash on hand for all U.S. debt obligations and bills.

Obama praised Senate leaders for reaching a compromise, and urged Congress to act quickly, White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

"As soon as possible is essentially the recommendation we have from here," he said.

Republican and Democratic members of the House were to meet separately in the afternoon to hear details of the proposal as well as weigh the next steps.

House Speaker John Boehner has failed to corral his caucus around any remedy, while House Democrats have solidly supported their leaders.

A senior GOP Senate aide said the Senate vote could come sometime Wednesday evening and a House leadership aide said the House could vote "as early as tonight" following the Senate.

But both chambers will have to take special steps to get the legislation passed that quickly, raising concerns that tea party conservatives led by Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas would block or delay it in a final effort to include provisions intended to harm Obama's signature health care reforms.

However, Cruz told reporters that he wouldn't mount a filibuster or employ other procedural moves against the agreement. At the same time, he criticized his Senate colleagues for what he called their failure to listen to the American people and said the fight against Obamacare will continue.

National polls conducted since the start of the shutdown on October 1 indicate that while all sides are feeling the public's anger over the partisan political impasse, more blame is pointed at the Republicans in Congress rather than Democrats or Obama.

U.S. stocks opened sharply higher on news of the Senate agreement with the benchmark Dow Jones Industrial Average jumping 200 points at one point.

Short-term plan

Reid said the Senate deal under discussion would reopen the government, funding it until January 15. It also would raise the debt limit until February 7 to avert a possible default on U.S. debt obligations for the first time.

Also, the White House supports a provision in the deal that strengthens verification measures for people getting subsidies under Obamacare, spokesman Jay Carney said.

Carney called the change "a modest adjustment," and said it didn't amount to "ransom" for raising the federal debt ceiling because both sides agreed to it and the White House supported it.

In addition, the Senate agreement would set up budget negotiations between the House and Senate for a long-term spending plan.

McConnell fired an opening salvo for those talks, expected to begin soon and continue until December, when he said any ensuing budget deal should adhere to spending caps set in a 2011 law that included forced cuts known as sequestration.

"Preserving this law is critically important to the future of our country," McConnell said of the Budget Control Act, which resulted from the previous debt ceiling crisis in Washington.

The focus on an agreement shifted to the Senate after House Republicans failed on Tuesday to come up with a plan their majority could support, stymied again by demands from tea party conservatives for outcomes unacceptable to Obama and Senate Democrats, as well as some fellow Republicans.

Cruz, despite being in the Senate, is credited with spearheading the House Republican effort to attach amendments that would dismantle or defund the health care reforms known as Obamacare to previous proposals intended to end the shutdown.

All were rejected by the Democratic-led Senate, and Obama also pledged to veto them, meaning there was no chance they ever would have succeeded.

Republican Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire called the House GOP tactic of tying Obamacare to the shutdown legislation "an ill-conceived strategy from the beginning, not a winning strategy."

However, Republican Rep. Steve King of Iowa advocated continued brinksmanship to try to change Obamacare, which conservatives detest as a big-government overreach.

"If we're not willing to take a stand now, then when will we take this stand?" he told CNN's "New Day," adding that if "the conservative Republican plan had been implemented five years ago, say at the inception of what is now the Obama presidency, we would have far less debt and deficit."

Warnings of default

Despite warnings by Obama and economists that a U.S. default would spike interest rates and could have catastrophic impacts at home and abroad, King said he's not too concerned if the government passes Thursday's deadline to raise the borrowing limit.

"It's just a date they picked on the calendar," he said, adding that the government will still be able to pay the interest on its debt. "I'm more concerned about market reaction than I am of default itself."

Thursday marks the day the Treasury Department will run out of special accounting maneuvers to keep the nation under the legal borrowing limit. From that point on, it will have to pay the country's incoming bills and other legal obligations with an estimated $30 billion in cash, plus whatever daily revenue comes in.

The White House had said that the U.S. would lose its borrowing authority on Thursday, leaving it only with cash on hand to pay bills and therefore at risk of default. Carney clarified Wednesday that the borrowing authority would continue through Thursday.

The expectation is that the Treasury will be able to pay bills in full for a short time after Thursday, but exactly how long remains unclear. According to the best outside estimates, the first day the government will run short of cash could come between October 22 and November 1.

Officials warn that an unknown is whether creditors such as foreign countries that traditionally roll over their U.S. bond holdings could decide to instead cash out, creating a potentially major payout that the government would lack funds to fulfill.

A break from tradition

If the Senate passes the agreement, Boehner will probably face the decision of whether to allow a vote that he knows can only pass with virtually all Democrats and only a few of his fellow Republicans supporting it.

That would break a Republican tradition known as the Hastert rule. The informal tenet, named after former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, says that the House speaker does not introduce legislation unless a majority of Republicans say they will vote for it first.

It has served to keep proposals off the floor, even if they have the prospect of passing via the votes of Democrats combined with those of some moderate Republicans.

House Republicans have expected Boehner to uphold the rule, which asserts the party's interests in the chamber, and he has pledged to do so. However, Boehner has previously allowed votes on measures lacking full Republican support at times of similar brinksmanship, such as the fiscal cliff negotiations in late December and early January that raised tax rates on wealth Americans.

"I believe that John Boehner will likely be in a position, where he will have to essentially pass the bill that is negotiated between Sens. McConnell and Reid," said Republican Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, who added that he would vote for the Senate plan.

About 20 Republicans would have to back the Senate plan for it to pass, assuming that virtually all of the chamber's 200 Democrats also would support it.

Slow process

Even so, it could take a day or two more for a deal to make it through the legislative process. By then, the nation will have run out of borrowing authority.

While tax revenues will continue to stream in, that money will be enough to pay only part of the government's obligations over time. The impact is unclear in the immediate short term, but over days and weeks, it would mean that government officials would have to pick and choose which bills to pay and which to leave for another day.

The prospect of the U.S. government running out of money to pay its bills and, eventually, finding it difficult to make payments on the debt itself, has economists around the world prophesying dire consequences.
Mutual funds, which are not allowed to hold defaulted securities, may have to dump masses of U.S. treasuries.

Ratings agency Fitch fired a warning shot Tuesday that it may downgrade the country's AAA credit rating to AA+ over the political brinksmanship and bickering in Washington that have brought the government to this point.

That could help raise interest rates on U.S. debt, putting the country deeper into the red.

Rating agency Standard & Poor's cut the U.S. credit rating from AAA to AA+ after the 2011 debt ceiling crisis. Moody's still has the U.S. rated AAA.

Investors around the world appeared to be sitting on the sidelines Wednesday waiting out the day's debate.

Asian markets ended with mixed results, European markets were down slightly Friday afternoon and U.S. stock futures - frequently taken as an indicator for how U.S. markets will open - were up marginally before trading began Wednesday.

Emergency brake?

Some scholars have suggested that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution gives Obama an emergency brake to stop the default by ignoring what Congress does and borrowing in spite of having reached the debt ceiling.

Section 4 of the amendment states: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Obama has rejected such claims, the Congressional Research Service has said. And other scholars say that by invoking the 14th Amendment in this way, the President would risk breaking other laws.

But the same scholars who say this say they believe that section 4 was formulated to keep politicians from holding the debt hostage in order to impose their political will on the natio

Muddled plan

Disarray among House Republicans caused confusion on Tuesday, with Boehner having to pull a proposed agreement from the floor because conservatives found it too weak.

The House proposal dropped some provisions on Obamacare but prohibited federal subsidies to the President and his administration officials as well as federal lawmakers and their staff receiving health insurance through the Affordable Care Act programs.

It also would have forbidden the Treasury from taking what it calls extraordinary measures to prevent the federal government from defaulting as cash runs low, in effect requiring hard deadlines to extend the federal debt ceiling.

House Democrats opposed the GOP proposal, which meant it couldn't pass without support from the 40 or so tea party conservatives, who wanted more spending cuts.

"It just kicks the can down the road another six weeks or two months," said Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas.

Time running out

Obama met Wednesday with Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, who has been looking for creative ways to cover U.S. financial obligations as the debt ceiling comes down.

On Tuesday, Obama called for House Republicans to "do what's right" by reopening government and ensuring the United States can pay its bills. "We don't have a lot of time," he said.

But he acknowledged Boehner's difficulty in getting his fellow House Republicans on the same page.

"Negotiating with me isn't necessarily good for the extreme faction in his caucus," Obama said, referring to the tea party and its conservative allies. "It weakens him, so there have been repeated situations where we have agreements. Then he goes back, and it turns out that he can't control his caucus."

[Breaking news update 3:25 p.m. ET]

House Speaker John Boehner said Wednesday that "we fought the good fight, we just didn't win," adding he would encourage his Republican caucus to support a Senate agreement to reopen the government and avert a possible U.S. default. Boehner's comments came in an interview with WLW radio in his home state of Ohio. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/16/senate-reaches-deal-to
-end-shutdown-avoid-default/?hpt=hp_t1


Anybody taking bets on what the House Republicans will do?

If this goes through, what exactly did the Tea Party put us all through to "gain"? " a provision in the deal that strengthens verification measures for people getting subsidies under Obamacare". I'm sure they're very proud.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:19 PM

STORYMARK


Interesting that the right wing regulars have been quiet today. Like they always are after the GOP shows its ass. We are sure to hear the "I was too busy" excuse again.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Interesting that the right wing regulars have been quiet today. Like they always are after the GOP shows its ass. We are sure to hear the "I was too busy" excuse again.



Well, actually, some of us DO have day jobs.

As for the news ? Nothing surprising. The surrender caucus of the GOP Elites in D.C. kicked the can, once again, down the road.

Cowards.

But good for them. Now they'll have parties from here until the Super Bowl, uninterrupted by that mean, 'crazy' Ted Cruz and his band of terrorists.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:43 PM

STORYMARK


See, called it.

He replies virtually instantly when he's got something to attack with. But the GOP eats it - each and every time, the boy gets a case of the "busies."

It's a hoot.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
See, called it.

He replies virtually instantly when he's got something to attack with. But the GOP eats it - each and every time, the boy gets a case of the "busies."

It's a hoot.



Genius, you attacked ME! And I can't reply before I read something, so your logic is lacking, as always.

I'm here, dumb ass. How can I be 'busy' and replying at the same time ?


25 minutes after the thread, YOU posted, then 20 more minutes after that, I read the thread and replied. How is that 'virtually instantly ' ???


It's been suggested that those who have no internal concept of the passage of time are nuts. ( or drunk ) You just proved at least one of those to be true.
Bravo.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:59 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


What the GOP got from this deal: Nothing.

And rightly so.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
What the GOP got from this deal: Nothing.

And rightly so.

It's not personal. It's just war.



That'll teach them to try to do the right thing.

Boehner and the surrender caucus will see to it that nothing like that happens again.

Huzzah !

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:06 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Genius, you attacked ME!



Pointing out a pattern is an attack....? Ooooh, kaaay.

Quote:

And I can't reply before I read something, so your logic is lacking, as always.


Uh... what? I didn't ask you to, genius.

Quote:

I'm here, dumb ass. How can I be 'busy' and replying at the same time ?


This time. You do understand the concept of discussing a long term pattern involves more than one instance, riiiight?


Quote:

25 minutes after the thread, YOU posted, then 20 more minutes after that, I read the thread and replied. How is that 'virtually instantly ' ???


Jesus, again, how do you NOT GET that I was referring to past behavior....

Oh, right, you can't fucking read.


Quote:

It's been suggested that those who have no internal concept of the passage of time are nuts. ( or drunk ) You just proved at least one of those to be true.
Bravo.



Given that you completely misunderstood what I said, then went on a tirade that had nothing to do with what I actually wrote.... sure, claim Im the one that's nuts - it makes it even funnier.

Bravo indeed, halfwit.






"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:09 PM

STORYMARK







"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:09 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

That'll teach them to try to do the right thing.


Hard to see how the stupid thing is the right thing. All Republicans have achieved with it is a nose dive in the polls. What was the good outcome you were hoping for, a US default on its debt?

The US might still get downgraded as a result of this btw.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, guys, don't get ahead of ourselves. We don't know what Cruz and his cohorts decided at their secret meeting, we don't know if they'll throw a wrench in the works, and it's only a temporary deal until the first of the year at best. We might be going nowhere, and even if they pass it, we might get to go through this WHOLE THING again in a couple of months.

The party of "fiscal conservatism" just screwed our country over financially BIG TIME (again), may have worsened our credit rating (again), has hurt how many thousands of people who've been out of work (again), gained absolutely NOTHING (again), and are probably ready to do it all over AGAIN in a couple of months. Obama's right: There Are No Winners.


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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

That'll teach them to try to do the right thing.


Hard to see how the stupid thing is the right thing. All Republicans have achieved with it is a nose dive in the polls. What was the good outcome you were hoping for, a US default on its debt?

The US might still get downgraded as a result of this btw.

It's not personal. It's just war.



May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

It's Obama and his policies which are driving this country down. The get-along-go-along Republocrats have their role in this as well.

Piling debt higher and higher is reckless and unpatriotic.

Obama said so himself.

So now, HE is the one piling debt higher and higher, and then whines about how we need to pay our bills. Bills HE himself has rung up.

Truly unconscionable.


keep fighting the good fight. Never surrender. Never never never.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:28 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


The party of "fiscal conservatism" just screwed our country over financially BIG TIME (again), may have worsened our credit rating (again), has hurt how many thousands of people who've been out of work (again), gained absolutely NOTHING (again), and are probably ready to do it all over AGAIN in a couple of months. Obama's right: There Are No Winners.




Its sad how true this is. We almost certainly will have to put up with this same insanity in a few months - likely to the same damned result.

On the other hand, people's memories are short - so having regular reminders of what assholes the tpublicans are, leading up to the mid-terms, might be usefull.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:32 PM

JONGSSTRAW


As of 5:26 pm est the Senate had not yet voted. When it passes, the House will vote. There's no certainty the House wil pass it. If it passes, all Obama has gained is a 3 month extension on his overdrawn checking account. What Conservatives have gained is a clear exposition of the RINOs and gutless puke libs within the Republican Party. They will all be targeted with primary challenges in 2014. The purge will be glorious!

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:35 PM

STORYMARK


Apparently, the majority of Republicans are now RINOs.... at least according to the crazy American Taliban side.


Your extremism is almost to parody levels now, jongsie.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:45 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

May have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Oh man, that's the gorram last straw. Don't go fucking quoting Mal, a character you despise anyway since he's a thief & criminal. You're so full of shit the whites of your eyes are brown. And sure, you don't fear any zombie apocalypse that might occur as a result of any worldwide NeoCon-created disaster because you're safe; you have no brains- at least nothing worth pursuing.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:47 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Apparently, the majority of Republicans are now RINOs.... at least according to the crazy American Taliban side.


Bullshit. All the Dems plus a handful of RINOs will be enough to pass the bill. That's NOT a majority of Republicans, not by a long shot. Later tonight Boehner will cry his little heart out 'cause he's so proud of his country.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:58 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
That's NOT a majority of Republicans, not by a long shot.

Zombies WILL however find a tasty snack in your skull, Vulcan elements notwithstanding.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:08 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Zombies WILL however find a tasty snack in your skull, Vulcan elements notwithstanding.


Romulans are a warrior race, often savage. But we appreciate the Vulcans, our distant brothers.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:21 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
As of 5:26 pm est the Senate had not yet voted. When it passes, the House will vote. There's no certainty the House wil pass it. If it passes, all Obama has gained is a 3 month extension on his overdrawn checking account. What Conservatives have gained is a clear exposition of the RINOs and gutless puke libs within the Republican Party. They will all be targeted with primary challenges in 2014. The purge will be glorious!



Good, we're all looking forward to 2014 then :-)

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:23 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Interesting that the right wing regulars have been quiet today. Like they always are after the GOP shows its ass. We are sure to hear the "I was too busy" excuse again.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Sorry but I had to work today to pay rent and buy food, the title to this thread should be;

Republicans cave like a mine in Chile!

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:25 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


WTOP.com saying that the House votes to reopen the federal government and avoid default. The measure now goes to President Obama for signing.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:53 AM

CHRISISALL


This feel-good political stunt only cost us an estimated 24 billion. THAT'S fiscally responsible T-Partiers for ya.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:22 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
As of 5:26 pm est the Senate had not yet voted. When it passes, the House will vote. There's no certainty the House wil pass it. If it passes, all Obama has gained is a 3 month extension on his overdrawn checking account. What Conservatives have gained is a clear exposition of the RINOs and gutless puke libs within the Republican Party. They will all be targeted with primary challenges in 2014. The purge will be glorious!



Yes the purge will be glorious...just not for the side you think.

See the teatards seem to forget about general elections. While primary challenges may get a few more tea party conservatives elected it will also see seats in more moderate areas going to the Dems. Perhaps enough to re-take the house.

If the Dems re-take the house and the Tea party folks continue with their tactics they lose. They will not be able to block anything in the House and if they try a shut down in the Senate the so called nuclear option will be used and the filibuster will be killed.

That means the Dems will than have free reign. The only chance the GOP and conservative have in this fight is to move closer to the center, not further right.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


One good thing about having to rush this bill through. The Congress wasn't able to cram as much Pork in as usual.

Quote:

There's language allowing more spending for upgrading a lock in the Ohio River between Illinois and Kentucky; money to help Colorado rebuild roads washed away by last month's catastrophic floods; extra money to help the Veterans Affairs Department whittle down a backlog of disabilities claims; and permission for the Pentagon to keep helping African nations hunt a notorious warlord.

The measure, approved Wednesday by the House and Senate, has one lump of coal for lawmakers: For the sixth consecutive year it would deny them the annual cost-of-living pay raise that by law they automatically receive unless they vote to block it. Members of Congress earn $174,000 annually, and some leaders receive more.

The 35-page bill had only a handful of such narrowly aimed provisions. That's a far cry from years ago, when spending bills would be studded with hundreds of "earmarks," or projects for specific states or congressional districts, often designed to ensure the votes of lawmakers.



http://www.wtop.com/959/3483726/Shutdown-bill-has-goodies-for-states-a
gencies



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nick, the last thing I want is for the DEMS to have a free hand, either. Tho' it's possible they're smart enough to have watched what's been happening and behave (more) responsibly (I wouldn't hold my breath). Mostly I just wish we could get more intelligent, somewhat moderate people from either side...hey, I can dream!

I'm thrilled to hear that at LEAST this resulted in less pork, Geezer; I'm well aware of the Dems' equal guilt in that respect, so it's always good news when something passes with a minimum of it.

Primarying the extremists has already begun...trouble is, they're pros at it and will be primarying the LESS extreme Republicans at the same time. Our system is broken in too many ways.
Quote:

From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington.
.....
Now, they’re lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they’re laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.

Iowa Republicans are recruiting a pro-business Republican to challenge six-term conservative Rep. Steve King, a leader in the push to defund the health care law. Disgruntled Republicans are further ahead in Michigan, where second-term, tea party-backed Rep. Justin Amash is facing a Republican primary challenger who is more in line with — and being encouraged by — the party establishment. And business interest groups, long aligned with the Republican Party, also are threatening to recruit and fund strong challengers to tea party House members.
.....
Even among Republicans, those who don’t support the tea party mostly disapprove of how the GOP is handling the budget issue. Just 17 percent of Americans overall consider themselves tea party backers.

And tea party allies are fighting back.

The Senate Conservatives Fund, an independent political action committee, has run ads asking tea party supporters to recruit primary election opponents for Republicans who voted for a measure that would have kept the government running with modifications in the health care law. Excerpts from http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/49532




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Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:47 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Nick, the last thing I want is for the DEMS to have a free hand, either. Tho' it's possible they're smart enough to have watched what's been happening and behave (more) responsibly (I wouldn't hold my breath). Mostly I just wish we could get more intelligent, somewhat moderate people from either side...hey, I can dream!



I agree. The US does need moderates on both sides. At one time Republicans dids have a lot of members that were not afraid of compromise or moving forword. These folks were often the ones that simply wanted to do so in a responcible matter and make sure the government was not over reaching. That however is far different than what we have now.

The only good thing is we still have Blue Dog Dems that could fill that role.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:59 AM

JONGSSTRAW


McConnell got $3 billion in pork for Kentucky. The widow of former NJ Senator Lautenberg got his salary of $174,000. She's worth $53 million. And all the furloughed Govt. employees, even the ones who didn't work through it, are getting all their pay retroactively. Must be nice.

It's rainin' tax dollars, hallelujah
It's rainin' tax dollars, amen.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:11 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
McConnell got $3 billion in pork for Kentucky. The widow of former NJ Senator Lautenberg got his salary of $174,000. She's worth $53 million. And all the furloughed Govt. employees, even the ones who didn't work through it, are getting all their pay retroactively. Must be nice.

It's rainin' tax dollars, hallelujah
It's rainin' tax dollars, amen.





I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:16 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Nick, the last thing I want is for the DEMS to have a free hand, either. Tho' it's possible they're smart enough to have watched what's been happening and behave (more) responsibly (I wouldn't hold my breath). Mostly I just wish we could get more intelligent, somewhat moderate people from either side...hey, I can dream!



I agree. The US does need moderates on both sides. At one time Republicans dids have a lot of members that were not afraid of compromise or moving forword. These folks were often the ones that simply wanted to do so in a responcible matter and make sure the government was not over reaching. That however is far different than what we have now.

The only good thing is we still have Blue Dog Dems that could fill that role.




Oh no. The Utah "Blue Dog" is a total douchebag who's only consideration on whether he votes for anything or not is if it'll let him get reelected in Utah.

Pretty much every other politician is the same.

The problem here isn't moderates versus extremists, because if they were all moderates they'd still make ridiculous bullshit into wedge issues to split the population and galvanize the voting base. And then they'd try to convince everyone that those positions are "extremist." Big parties is big business, and they conduct psychological war on the American people in pursuit of that.

The problem is politics versus common sense. They are like a massive intestinal brain blockage. There's only two ways I can think of to get around them for lasting reform to the campaign system/legislature: either complete dissolution of the government and economy, or switching to a LOTTERY election system.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:26 PM

JONGSSTRAW





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Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
This feel-good political stunt only cost us an estimated 24 billion. THAT'S fiscally responsible T-Partiers for ya.


And this...
Well okay it's hard to explain given there's a theological aspect to it with me as well as a political one, but in short, and lemme make this perfectly clear from my perspective.

You rightwingnut enabling fucks OWE ME MONEY.

This pathetic little temper tantrum on behalf of the folks who support has wasted a huge chunk of change that could have been better served feeding the poor, housing the homeless, healing the sick - cause heaven forfend we ever cut the war machine budget, grrrr.

And it's All. On. You. - you cheerleaded for it, supported it, glorified it, and no amount of later denials of ever doin so will change that fact.

Just sayin...

-F

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:09 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Oh no. The Utah "Blue Dog" is a total douchebag who's only consideration on whether he votes for anything or not is if it'll let him get reelected in Utah.



Pretty much what he is suppost to do, since he is a represenative of that state.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Chris - you're wrong. I don't hate Mal . If anything, I greatly identify with him. Independant , a man with a heart, opposing a tyranncal oppressive govt... A big damn hero. And fictional, too. Which should thrill you to pieces.


Oh, and psycho Frem? Obama owes you money, not the brave tea party Americans. He's the one who shut down the govt. Never forget that.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:41 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, and psycho Frem? Obama owes you money, not the brave tea party Americans. He's the one who shut down the govt. Never forget that.



I still see that Rappy is posting from some alternate reality.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:06 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, and psycho Frem? Obama owes you money, not the brave tea party Americans. He's the one who shut down the govt. Never forget that.



I still see that Rappy is posting from some alternate reality.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



So, it's a day that ends in.... "day."




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


C'mon Mark--and everyone else--Rap isn't going to make any effort to make sense or be the slightest bit honest, he's going to go on spouting the most atrocious things his pea-sized brain can come up with, no matter what.

"Obama owes you money, not the brave tea party Americans. He's the one who shut down the govt. Never forget that." Seriously! Obama, the Senate and all the Dems in the House, as well as many House Republicans (including their speaker) were ready to pass a budget, it's the TPers who REFUSED TO VOTE ON THE BUDGET which closed down the government--they were quite open about it, many of them were very, very clear that it's what they intended to do, when it happened they were ecstatic, and now they're willing to re-open the government despite getting no real concessions. Never forget THAT!

After House Republicans voted to shut down the government unless Democrats acquiesce to Republican ransom demands, Michele Bachmann said “We’re very excited! It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

Texas Republican congressman John Abney Culberson clapped his hands and celebrated the upcoming government shutdown: “It’s wonderful! We’re 100 percent united.” (both quoted many places, but here's just one: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-cusp-of-shutdown-house-conse
rvatives-excited-say-they-are-doing-the-right-thing/2013/09/28/2a5ab618-285e-11e3-97e6-2e07cad1b77e_story.html
)

Of course, now she's backpedaling and saying that's not what she meant ( http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bachmann-denies-saying-shutdown-exactly-wha
t-we-wanted-wapo-and-obama-misquoted-me
/), but a quick listen to what she was saying on October 4 it pretty amusing...they were the "happiest" they'd ever been, and strongly "unified". Uh...huh.



Rap is just like Bachmann and the rest of them; they wanted the shutdown, they were tickled shitless to get it, they tried to blame it on Obama, the American people weren't buying, now they've capitulated (for a few months). They can try to have it both ways, but it don't work, simple as that. There would never have been a government shutdown if it weren't for a few members of the House Republicans; they're stuck with OWNING it!

Rap will write whatever comes into his head, and lie through his teeth whenever it's convenient, that is well established. He can quip that he was just putting people on, but a lie is a lie and it CLEARLY indicates he'll lie whenever he feels like it. Why bother?


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Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




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Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama owes you money, not the brave tea party Americans. He's the one who shut down the govt. Never forget that.

What I'll never forget is that you are a fruitloop.
See, if somehow this had all worked out in the favour of the NeoCon trash, you'd say "Conservative heroes shut down the government. Never forget that."

The words you type are usually less than worthless.

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