REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Lindsey Graham: 60 Minutes 'Death Blow,' Will Block Nominations Over Benghazi

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Sunday, November 10, 2013 17:35
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Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:18 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Calling the Obama administration "irresponsible" for shielding witnesses to the deadly 2012 Benghazi terror attack, Sen. Lindsey Graham said Monday he'll hold up every executive branch appointment and nominee until more survivors are allowed to speak to Congress

Graham called a "60 Minutes" report Sunday a "death blow" to the administration's initial narrative on what sparked the Sept. 11, 2012, attack on the U.S. mission that killed four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens.

"The '60 Minutes' piece conclusively proved ... that al-Qaida was behind this attack, that they had provided warnings to Washington, all of their additional security requests were ignored, and no one's been held accountable," he said.

Graham told Newsmax TV a special committee may be the only way to untangle the events surrounding the attack.

"What Greg Hicks said on '60 Minutes' was pretty telling," he said, explaining that there were three requests made for security, the third of which was denied "and stopped from moving forward from Libya to Washington."

"I know who the person was that stopped that security request, I know what's in it, and the American people deserve to hear about this, and everything around Benghazi has been overly classified for political reasons," he said. "So I hope there will be a bicameral, joint select committee."

Graham refused to elaborate on who stopped the security request, or why.

"But I can tell you this, that the idea that our consulate was attacked by a bunch of protestors was absurd from day one, and it is now absolutely conclusively proven to have been a lie," he said.

But why the ambassador was left in Benghazi is a question still left unanswered, Graham said.

Dismissing the international furor over the reported spying of allies by the National Security Agency as something that "will blow over," Graham insisted that even more disturbing is the lack of accountability of the Obama administration.

"We've gone from blaming [President] Bush for every problem in the world now to [President Obama] doesn't have a clue of what's going on, whether it be Benghazi, whether it be the NSA, IRS, you name it," he said. "It seems to be that the new answer is, 'I just didn't know about that.'"


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/graham-obama-benghazi-appointment/201
3/10/28/id/533523


Well whaddaya know, a broken clock is indeed right twice a day!

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Sunday, November 3, 2013 12:28 AM

ELVISCHRIST




The claims of this "witness" are falling apart. Turns out he was nowhere near the embassy when things went down. 60 Minutes fails the most basic test of Journalism 101, which is to verify the claims made by your sources, or at least vet your sources.

Of course the tea party fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 1:03 PM

ELVISCHRIST


The hits keep on coming.

Quote:

On October 27, CBS' 60 Minutes featured "Morgan Jones," -- The Washington Post later revealed his real name, Dylan Davies -- a supposed "eyewitness" of the September 2012 attack on U.S. diplomatic facilities, who claimed that during the attack he scaled a wall of the compound, personally struck a terrorist in the face with his rifle butt, and later went to the Benghazi hospital to see Ambassador Chris Stevens' body.

The story he told CBS wildly diverged from the account he gave his superiors in an incident report that was obtained by The Washington Post. According to the Post, Davies had previously filed a report with his security contractor employer saying that he "could not get anywhere near" the compound the night of the attack.



http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/03/cbs-eyewitness-admits-he-lied-
about-benghazi-at/196725



And Rand Paul had a bit of a Freudian slip when discussing what he called "the Benghazi strategy".

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Monday, November 4, 2013 3:30 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by G:


They seem very determined to keep Obama from a third term.



I think they'll probably succeed...

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Monday, November 4, 2013 3:38 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
[
"I know who the person was that stopped that security request, I know what's in it, and the American people deserve to hear about this, and everything around Benghazi has been overly classified for political reasons," he said. "So I hope there will be a bicameral, joint select committee."

Graham refused to elaborate on who stopped the security request, or why.





Lindsay, it ain't hard. All ya gotta do is say, "Lastname, Firstname," and then shut up. Anybody objects, you can defend yourself on the argument of that's the fact, the real truth. 'Course, if it's BS, yer deep in the brown sauce. But it IS the truth, ain't it? You said so.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 4:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

They seem very determined to keep Obama from a third term.



More importantly, keeping Hillary from winning, EVER.

" WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ? "


Makes a hell of a lot of difference, Hill-gal. You lied, and they died. It was NEVER about a video, or a 'random mob'.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, November 4, 2013 4:37 PM

JONGSSTRAW


A lot of secondary things still bother me about Benghazi in addition to the main questions that still remain unanswered. Little things like.....

a) How can Petraeus give 15 minutes of secret testimony behind closed doors ... and that's it?! We're not allowed to know what he said about what he knew as CIA Director? He didn't know anything about the attack or talking points planning? Riiiiiight! I see. Just retire and disappear.

b) Former Sec of Defense Gates testified that he spoke to Obama when the shit started, but never heard back from Obama, and was never asked about it again from Obama ... er, um, uh really? I mean what the fuck? That's it? That's the final story? OK, everything's fine ... move along.

c) Hillary's testimony totally contradicted what other officials at the State Dept had previously testified to. So she lies for two hours, then retires, and that's that! How nice for her.

d) And Republicans ....no hearings in 10 months? No consequences? No nothing. Aw gee, is the Obama Govt. stonewalling y'all? Well ain't that a bitch!

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Monday, November 4, 2013 5:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Barry was all giddy about his trip to Vegas to fret over the 'bump in the road ' called Benghazi.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, November 4, 2013 5:41 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Morons, the lot of you.
How many times do I have to point out to you that in presidential elections and electoral politics your "vote" means effectively nothing, that presidential elections are decided long and long before us peons are ever let in for the dog and pony show ?

Hilary has *ALREADY* bagged up 2016, bought and paid for, so you better just start learning to deal with it, you cretins.

That might not have been SUCH a sure thing if you rightwingnuts weren't such complete fucking tools, gullible to an extreme, stupid beyond fathom, and so easily manipulated anyone with even the remotest idea of how little cognitive process you have can make you dance on command, so in the end the only blame for this lies as close as the nearest mirror.

-Frem

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Monday, November 4, 2013 5:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Moron, cretins, rightwingnuts, fucking tools, gullible, stupid...


But completely ignore where the buck actually stops. Blame the victims in this disaster of a Presidency, not the actual PRESIDENT.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, November 4, 2013 5:49 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Morons, the lot of you.
How many times do I have to point out to you that in presidential elections and electoral politics your "vote" means effectively nothing, that presidential elections are decided long and long before us peons are ever let in for the dog and pony show ?



Proof or shut the fuck up...really.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 5:54 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Morons, the lot of you.
How many times do I have to point out to you that in presidential elections and electoral politics your "vote" means effectively nothing, that presidential elections are decided long and long before us peons are ever let in for the dog and pony show ?


Only a lunatic like you would say such a ridiculously stupid thing.

Quote:

Hilary has *ALREADY* bagged up 2016, bought and paid for, so you better just start learning to deal with it, you cretins.

Oh really? That's what they said back in 2008 when her Presidential victory was all but guaranteed.

Quote:

That might not have been SUCH a sure thing if you rightwingnuts weren't such complete fucking tools, gullible to an extreme, stupid beyond fathom, and so easily manipulated anyone with even the remotest idea of how little cognitive process you have can make you dance on command, so in the end the only blame for this lies as close as the nearest mirror.

Keep sitting on your park bench eyeing little girls with bad intent. Hey Aqualung.

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Monday, November 4, 2013 11:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA



You *DO* realize we've been round this bend before, twice in fact.

2008 Y'all were like "McCain's got it in the bag!"
2012 Y'all were like "Romney, Romney!!"

Which made me laugh real hard cause Romney never even had a goddamn chance.
Seriously, do any of you even KNOW who your electors are ?
How they are selected ?
There's a whole bunch of little deals made in smoke filled back rooms long and long before any presidential "election" happens, a little for this one, a little for that one, palms greased, deals cut, and not a bit of it for us peons - especially in light of the simple and plain fact that the popular vote in a presidential selection is tallied only as a matter of record and THEN DISCARDED.

Here, educate yourself.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepoliticalsystem/a/electcollege.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpledged_elector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

Most electors are appointed, which involves a lot of horse-trading, bullshit, and backroom deals, and prior to the event can be swayed by more of the same - Hillary has already laid the groundwork for this given her contacts with the health care industry and the goddamn insurance companies who are now making sweet guaranteed profits off this mandatory insurance scam, cause them and Big Pharma stand to make a mint and look poorly upon any Republican attempt to cut off the corporate welfare tap.

The GOP... they got nothing, just a fistfull of crazy and a lack of contact with reality which makes them a dangerous, unstable horse to bet on, and a bunch of gullible moron supporters who can't be trusted.

But go on, pretend the game isn't rigged if that makes you happy.

-Frem

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 12:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

But go on, pretend the game isn't rigged if that makes you happy.

-Frem




Here is the problem with your whole theory. Some state laws require electors to vote for the winner of that state. Even in states that do not have this law electors going against the will of the voters is very rare.

Once again you come into a thread with sound and furry and when called on it produce weak results.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 4:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Reallly Dreamtrove ?
"weak results" is the *best* bullshit you can come up with ?

Especially in light of my track record with predictions around here and calling something top to bottom, then laughing up my sleeve when it all turns out just that way - but in this case it isn't even necessary.

Lets look at this objectively for a moment.

The Democrats, curse them to hell or not, have a candidate, they have a solid plan, party unity and the votes to put plans in action even over opposition.

The Republicans, incompetent imbeciles, have no candidate, no plan beyond throwing a tantrum when they get run over, are locked up in blamestorming and circular firing squads, and no amount of gerrymandering is gonna get them enough votes to do anydamnthing even if they could think of something TO do.

Now if YOU were a political power broker, looking to profit from this mess, where would you be placing YOUR bets right now ?

This isn't rocket science here, unless the GOP brings something other than halfassed crazy to the table, they've nothing on offer and the kingmakers will laugh them out of the room.

-Frem

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 4:07 AM

FREMDFIRMA


And back on topic, and speaking of Logic-Fail....

Yeah, isn't it amazing how often rightwing "witnesses" turn out to be totally full of shit ?
Yanno, like that lady selling the whole kuwati incubators bullshit story, or how about good ole "curveball" Chalabi, eh ?

And this whole spindance here reeks of typical rightwing cut-and-paste, logic-fail magickal thinking anyways.

Let me break this down.


They WANTED intervention/regime change in Libya.
They were warned this was a terrible idea.

They were told what the potential consequences might be.
They brushed this off nonchalantly out of the same kind of immense and appalling ignorance which brought them to think the Iraqis would welcome our intervention.

We went and doubled down on stupid, did what they wanted.
Predictably those consequences came around, and they were the first ones to whine and wail about it - and one of their main hissyfits was over not throwing more troops (human beings, mind you) needlessly into the meatgrinder despite the fact that their presence would have made NO DIFFERENCE TO THE OUTCOME.

The angry mob which smashed up everything was in the hundreds easily, maybe past that, did we learn nothing from our disastrous fumbling in Somalia ?

Nah, the main reason the rightwingies wanted us to hang more american troops out to dry so they could be torn apart by folks with something of a legit gripe was so they could then blame the administration for those deaths and whip up moral outrage to hide the fact that intervention in the first place was their own goddamn stupid idea - and it shows just how much actual respect they've got for "the troops" right there.

And why oh why was an angry mob wrecking our embassy, hmmm ?
Well, because we used it as a C3 center to help overthrow the legitimate and established government of the country that said embassy was *IN*, and were torturing locals who we didn't like in the basement, thus enraging prettymuch everyone in the whole damn country at us, even a good chunk of the alleged rebels, AND it pissed off the neighboring countries something awful on top of it, hell given the complete violation and misuse of diplomatic protections we oughta count ourselves lucky Egypt didn't declare war on us.

Add to that it coming out just how aggressively and offensively we committed espionage using our embassies as cover, almost every nation in the world would be well within their rights to forcibly remove them at any time.


And yet all we hear from the rightwing assholes is whining about not throwing more troops out to be slaughtered so they'd have even more to whine about.

-Frem

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:15 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Reallly Dreamtrove ?
"weak results" is the *best* bullshit you can come up with ?



Dreamtrove? Are you not paying attention?

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Especially in light of my track record with predictions around here and calling something top to bottom, then laughing up my sleeve when it all turns out just that way - but in this case it isn't even necessary.



You mean you saying vagly that there is more to come out about things and than claiming you called it. Please.

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Lets look at this objectively for a moment.

The Democrats, curse them to hell or not, have a candidate, they have a solid plan, party unity and the votes to put plans in action even over opposition.

The Republicans, incompetent imbeciles, have no candidate, no plan beyond throwing a tantrum when they get run over, are locked up in blamestorming and circular firing squads, and no amount of gerrymandering is gonna get them enough votes to do anydamnthing even if they could think of something TO do.

Now if YOU were a political power broker, looking to profit from this mess, where would you be placing YOUR bets right now ?

This isn't rocket science here, unless the GOP brings something other than halfassed crazy to the table, they've nothing on offer and the kingmakers will laugh them out of the room.

-Frem



All that has dick to do with your claim that people's votes do not count.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:44 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
And back on topic, and speaking of Logic-Fail....

Yeah, isn't it amazing how often rightwing "witnesses" turn out to be totally full of shit ?
Yanno, like that lady selling the whole kuwati incubators bullshit story, or how about good ole "curveball" Chalabi, eh ?

And this whole spindance here reeks of typical rightwing cut-and-paste, logic-fail magickal thinking anyways.

Let me break this down.


They WANTED intervention/regime change in Libya.
They were warned this was a terrible idea.

They were told what the potential consequences might be.
They brushed this off nonchalantly out of the same kind of immense and appalling ignorance which brought them to think the Iraqis would welcome our intervention.

We went and doubled down on stupid, did what they wanted.
Predictably those consequences came around, and they were the first ones to whine and wail about it - and one of their main hissyfits was over not throwing more troops (human beings, mind you) needlessly into the meatgrinder despite the fact that their presence would have made NO DIFFERENCE TO THE OUTCOME.

The angry mob which smashed up everything was in the hundreds easily, maybe past that, did we learn nothing from our disastrous fumbling in Somalia ?

Nah, the main reason the rightwingies wanted us to hang more american troops out to dry so they could be torn apart by folks with something of a legit gripe was so they could then blame the administration for those deaths and whip up moral outrage to hide the fact that intervention in the first place was their own goddamn stupid idea - and it shows just how much actual respect they've got for "the troops" right there.

And why oh why was an angry mob wrecking our embassy, hmmm ?
Well, because we used it as a C3 center to help overthrow the legitimate and established government of the country that said embassy was *IN*, and were torturing locals who we didn't like in the basement, thus enraging prettymuch everyone in the whole damn country at us, even a good chunk of the alleged rebels, AND it pissed off the neighboring countries something awful on top of it, hell given the complete violation and misuse of diplomatic protections we oughta count ourselves lucky Egypt didn't declare war on us.

Add to that it coming out just how aggressively and offensively we committed espionage using our embassies as cover, almost every nation in the world would be well within their rights to forcibly remove them at any time.


And yet all we hear from the rightwing assholes is whining about not throwing more troops out to be slaughtered so they'd have even more to whine about.

-Frem





Nailed it.

Here's what it absolutely ISN'T about: American embassy personnel being killed.

How can you tell? Because the people who are most upset about Benghazi are the same ones who voted repeatedly to slash funding for embassy security, and are the same people who spoke not a disparaging word when a dozen such attacks and more than 50 deaths of embassy personnel occurred under President Bush.

Anyone who takes these people seriously in any context should have their head examined.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 6:21 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A lot of secondary things still bother me about Benghazi in addition to the main questions that still remain unanswered. Little things like.....

a) How can Petraeus give 15 minutes of secret testimony behind closed doors ... and that's it?! We're not allowed to know what he said about what he knew as CIA Director? He didn't know anything about the attack or talking points planning? Riiiiiight! I see. Just retire and disappear.

b) Former Sec of Defense Gates testified that he spoke to Obama when the shit started, but never heard back from Obama, and was never asked about it again from Obama ... er, um, uh really? I mean what the fuck? That's it? That's the final story? OK, everything's fine ... move along.

c) Hillary's testimony totally contradicted what other officials at the State Dept had previously testified to. So she lies for two hours, then retires, and that's that! How nice for her.

d) And Republicans ....no hearings in 10 months? No consequences? No nothing. Aw gee, is the Obama Govt. stonewalling y'all? Well ain't that a bitch!



'Obama's Watergate' doesn't seem to be materialising, does it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:22 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A lot of secondary things still bother me about Benghazi in addition to the main questions that still remain unanswered. Little things like.....

a) How can Petraeus give 15 minutes of secret testimony behind closed doors ... and that's it?! We're not allowed to know what he said about what he knew as CIA Director? He didn't know anything about the attack or talking points planning? Riiiiiight! I see. Just retire and disappear.

b) Former Sec of Defense Gates testified that he spoke to Obama when the shit started, but never heard back from Obama, and was never asked about it again from Obama ... er, um, uh really? I mean what the fuck? That's it? That's the final story? OK, everything's fine ... move along.

c) Hillary's testimony totally contradicted what other officials at the State Dept had previously testified to. So she lies for two hours, then retires, and that's that! How nice for her.

d) And Republicans ....no hearings in 10 months? No consequences? No nothing. Aw gee, is the Obama Govt. stonewalling y'all? Well ain't that a bitch!



'Obama's Watergate' doesn't seem to be materialising, does it?


No it doesn't. Perhaps if a John Dean figure emerges from Obama's inner circle at some point it might be different. But then again, there would also need to be an honest Attorney General, as well as an inquisitive and confrontational press to ever have any Watergate-type justice.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:47 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
'Obama's Watergate' doesn't seem to be materialising, does it? Perhaps if a John Dean figure emerges from Obama's inner circle at some point it might be different. But then again, there would also need to be an honest Attorney General, as well as an inquisitive and confrontational press to ever have any Watergate-type justice.

They don't need a new John Dean. Or Woodward and Bernstein. Or Attorney General Elliot Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus.

Death in a war zone of State Department civil servants seems sufficient reason for the House of Representatives to vote for articles of impeachment. The House can demonstrate their patriotism by risking their political careers to protect the USA from Obama. What are they waiting for? Permission from the Obama's Attorney General? Evidence from Obama's State Department? Why? The House doesn't need Obama's permission to vote for articles of impeachment.

The impeachment then moves to the Senate for trial. Only Presidents Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton have been impeached. Both were acquitted. But next time, Senator Lindsey Graham will get a conviction. Civil servants died in a war zone -- it's only right that the President take the blame.

Now for the ad hominem attack: Sen. Graham's colleagues respect him and will do whatever the squeaky little man who's always being interviewed on TV, and always upset about something, thinks best. They will end Obama for once and for all time! "Your time has expired." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_investigations_of_United_Stat
es_federal_officials


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Wednesday, November 6, 2013 12:32 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
'Obama's Watergate' doesn't seem to be materialising, does it? Perhaps if a John Dean figure emerges from Obama's inner circle at some point it might be different. But then again, there would also need to be an honest Attorney General, as well as an inquisitive and confrontational press to ever have any Watergate-type justice.

They don't need a new John Dean. Or Woodward and Bernstein.

Death in a war zone of State Department civil servants seems sufficient reason for the House of Representatives to vote for articles of impeachment. The House can demonstrate their patriotism by risking their political careers to protect the USA from Obama. What are they waiting for? Permission from the Obama's Attorney General? Evidence from Obama's State Department? Why? The House doesn't need Obama's permission to vote for articles of impeachment.

The impeachment then moves to the Senate for trial. Only Presidents Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton have been impeached. Both were acquitted. But next time, Senator Lindsey Graham will get a conviction. Civil servants died in a war zone -- it's only right that the President take the blame.

Now for the ad hominem attack: Sen. Graham's colleagues respect him and will do whatever the squeaky little man who's always being interviewed on TV, and always upset about something, thinks best. They will end Obama for once and for all time! "Your time has expired."


There was a question posed to me by kpo which I answered. You included that question along with my response and quoted it as if I had asked the question. Don't know if I've ever seen that maneuver before. House Republicans impeaching Obama? Right after I win the Fl. lottery.

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Wednesday, November 6, 2013 1:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There was a question posed to me by kpo which I answered. You included that question along with my response and quoted it as if I had asked the question. Don't know if I've ever seen that maneuver before. House Republicans impeaching Obama? Right after I win the Fl. lottery.

What is stopping the Republicans is what happens to them after they fail. So long as they don't actually pass articles of impeachment, everything is peachy for them with their insinuations that something truly evil, but unknown, is going on within the Whitehouse. A technique that you use yourself just now with your slimy "Don't know if I've ever seen that maneuver before.".

If Sen. Lindsey Graham believes what he says, impeachment must happen now to save the USA. Watch him claim that Benghazi was the next step toward Charleston and New York harbor being nuked by terrorists because Obama doesn't listen to Graham.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 7, 2013 3:09 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:


That might not have been SUCH a sure thing if you rightwingnuts weren't such complete fucking tools, gullible to an extreme, stupid beyond fathom, and so easily manipulated anyone with even the remotest idea of how little cognitive process you have can make you dance on command, so in the end the only blame for this lies as close as the nearest mirror.

-Frem



Do you mind if I print that on a poster?




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 7, 2013 10:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Don't see why I'd mind, rubbing their own stupidity and gullibility in their faces has little effect on them, but making them laughingstocks instead of fearing them is what we SHOULD do, because fear is the only power they have.

-F

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Friday, November 8, 2013 2:41 AM

ELVISCHRIST




http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/07/cbs-news-pulls-troubled-bengha
zi-report-as-new/196796


Quote:

CBS News pulled a crumbling 60 Minutes report on the 2012 Benghazi attacks from its website and YouTube channel amid new information from The New York Times that corroborates claims that CBS' star witness provided conflicting accounts about what he witnessed the night of the attack. Jeff Fager, CBS News chairman and 60 Minutes executive producer, hinted that a correction may be forthcoming.

The network was heavily criticized by veteran journalists and media critics after The Washington Post reported that Morgan Jones, the eyewitness on whom 60 Minutes based its report, had given CBS a story of the attacks that was contradicted by what he told the security contractor he worked for at the time.

On November 7, it was revealed by the Times that the account of the attacks that Jones, whose real name is Dylan Davies, gave to the FBI did not match what he told CBS News' Lara Logan.





This is the report that the "Benghazi strategy" as Rand Paul called it (who wrote that?!) rests on, and it's 100% bunk. Even the network behind it has pulled it down.


"Death Blow" my freckled arse. It would be a death blow to the whole Benghazi non-story, except the tea partiers are too stupid to realize that the horse they're beating has been dead for more than a year.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 11:57 AM

STORYMARK


Of course, now that CBS has retracted the story, the righties will never show up in this conversation again, will pretend the retraction never happened, and will, within Im guessing 2 weeks, go back to referring to the story as legitimate. Because that's how they roll.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 8, 2013 12:31 PM

ELVISCHRIST




CBS's Lara Logan (the reporter who "broke" the "Benghazi death blow" story as Jongsstraw calls it, has apologized and said they got it wrong and will issue a full apology and retraction on Sunday's "60 Minutes" episode.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/11/08/cbs-lara-logan-apologizes-for
-faulty-60-minutes/196797


Quote:

NORAH O'DONNELL: 60 Minutes has learned of new information that undercuts its October 27 account of an ex-security officer who called himself Morgan Jones. His real name is Dylan Davies, and he recounted to Lara Logan in great detail what he claimed were his actions on the night of the attack on the Benghazi compound. Lara joins us this morning, Lara, good morning.

LARA LOGAN: Good morning Norah, well. You know the most important thing to every person at 60 Minutes is the truth and today the truth is that we made a mistake, and that's very disappointing for any journalist. It's very disappointing for me. Nobody likes to admit that they made a mistake, but if you do, you have to stand up and take responsibility and you have to say that you were wrong, and in this case we were wrong. We made a mistake. And how did this happen?

Well, Dylan Davies worked for the State Department in Libya. He was the manager of the local guard force at the Benghazi special mission compound, and he described for us his actions that night, saying that he had entered the compound and he had a confrontation with one of the attackers, and he also said that he had seen the body of Ambassador Chris Stevens in a local hospital. And after our report aired, questions were raised about whether his account was real.

After an incident report surfaced that told a different story about what he'd done that night. And, you know, he denied that report. And he said that he told the FBI the same story that he had told us, but what we now know is that he told the FBI a different story to what he told us. And, you know, that was the moment for us when we realized that we no longer had confidence in our source, and that we were wrong to put him on air, and we apologize to our viewers.

O'DONNELL: Why were you convinced that Dylan Davies was a credible source, that the account that he provided was accurate? How did you vet him?

LOGAN: Well, we verified and confirmed that he was who he said he was, that he was working for the State Department at the time, that he was in Benghazi at the special mission compound the night of the attack, and that, you know, he showed us -- he gave us access to communications he had with U.S. government officials. We used U.S. government reports and congressional testimony to verify many of the details of his story, and everything checked out.

He also showed us photographs that he had taken at the special mission compound the following morning and, you know, we take the vetting of sources and stories very seriously at 60 Minutes. And we took it seriously in this case. But we were misled, and we were wrong, and that's the important thing. That's what we have to say here. We have to set the record straight and take responsibility.

O'DONNELL: Last Thursday, The Washington Post ran a report that questioned the central parts of what Davies had told you. They cited this incident report right after the attack that he gave to Blue Mountain, the security firm that he worked for. He told them that he never made it to the compound, that he was at his villa there. Did you know about that report, that incident report?

LOGAN: No, we did not know about that incident report before we did our story. When The Washington Post story came out, he denied it. He said that he never wrote it, had nothing to do with it. And that he told the FBI the same story as he told us. But as we now know, that is not the case.

O'DONNELL: But why would you stand by this report after Dylan Davies admitted lying to his own employer?

LOGAN: Because he was very upfront about that from the beginning, that was always part of his story. The context of it, when he tells his story, is that his boss is someone he cared about enormously. He cared about his American counterparts in the mission that night, and when his boss told him not to go, he couldn't stay back. So, that was always part of the record for us. And, that part didn't come as any surprise.

JEFF GLOR: 60 has already acknowledged it was a mistake not to disclose that the book was being published by Simon & Schuster, which is a CBS company. There are also these reports now that Davies was asking for money. Did he ever ask you for money?

LOGAN: He did not. He never asked us for money. It never came up.

O'DONNELL: So how do you address this moving forward? Are you going do something on Sunday on 60 Minutes?

LOGAN: Yes. We will apologize to our viewers, and we will correct the record on our broadcast on Sunday night.

O'DONNELL: And have you been in touch with him since?

LOGAN: We have not. We, after we learned of the latest news about the FBI report, we tried to contact him but we haven't heard back from him.

O'DONNELL: You have had no contact with him since then.

LOGAN: Not so far.

O'DONNELL: And not about this latest news about the FBI report.

LOGAN: No.

GLOR: Lara Logan, thank you very much.

LOGAN: Thank you.




Their source is shilling a book through an affiliate. They kind of forgot to mention that.



Jongsstraw made a point of acknowledging when M52Nickerson stood corrected. Will he stand corrected here and admit that this was all a load of hokum?

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Friday, November 8, 2013 12:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD

Interesting that Graham should use the "call and response" technique of so many (black) preachers.

Anyhow... Graham is talking about geopolitics, which is good. We should all do more of that. But he's got his facts and timetable all wrong, which is bad. As he describes his nightmare scenario, I smell a lot of IF coming offa than plan.

IF Iran thinks we're weak, and
IF Iran develops nuclear weapons, and
IF Iran gives its nuclear technology to terrorists, then
within a year....

He's conveniently "forgetting" that Israel has nuclear weapons. He's taking his eyes off of some of the more important terrorist-funding nations (hint: It's not Iran)... AFA Jordan is concerned ... Jordan is a monarchy with serious human rights abuses. It's like a landlocked US aircraft carrier... it serves as an American airbase, and has a not-so-secret facility where the Saudis and CIA jointly train jihadists to fight in Syria. So while it may the the last country in the region that "we can deal with" (What about Israel???) it is hardly a "moderate" nation. He uses big ideas to catch donor's attention and make them feel smart... like they're playing with the big boys, yanno? But his speech is about 95% hogwash.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 1:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okie-dokie, now that I've read the entire thread, a couple of thoughts come to mind:

The GOP has made the mistake of letting the Tea Party determine its direction, and the Tea Party has made the mistake of biting the (corporate) hand that feeds them, and the corporations themselves know who feeds them... the gubmint. Looking at it from an investment standpoint, where do you think the uber-wealthy will throw their money?

As peons, we have the choice of being sold to the corporations by either the GOP or by the Dems. The only thing to screw up that calculation is if people on both "sides" of the political spectrum start voting third-party en masse, making both main parties unreliable deliverers of fodder.

AFA Benghazi and our embassies and consulates (Benghazi was a consulate, not an embassy)... everyone knows, or should know, that ALL of our embassies and consulates are espionage centers, and some are oh, so much more than that... detention and torture centers, or centers for destabilizing the host nation. Our Ambassadors know this in general, but not the specifics, not the who and what of non-State Department operations. So out of all those Embassy personnel... the drivers, secretaries, security, IT guys and so forth... the Ambassadors have no idea who is "just" State Department and who is State Department plus. That gives the State Department plausible deniability; also, if an Ambassador should be kidnapped and questioned the kidnappers would be unlikely to get much info.

Our government likes this setup because it allows them to pick from two independent tracks... diplomatic or espionage/special ops... depending in how things turn out. OTOH, it puts the Ambassador in a tenuous situation in hostile, unstable nations, something the appointees know, if they're stationed in nations which are in the process of being taken apart.

I'm pretty sure that we were running some less-than-transparent CIA/special ops ... the transfer of arms from Libya to Syria jointly undertaken by the USA and Saudi Arabia... and that "extra security" might have exposed the process. I'll bet there is a big ball of tangle, that if you were to pull one thread would lead to a whole lot of exposure. If I think about it for a while, I might be able to come up with a reasonable scenario as to the who and why. I feel sorry for Chris Stevens, but I suspect he ran afoul of non-diplomatic operations in some way. It seems to me that Graham is whining because he's not getting the FULL story. He just prolly wishes he were in the Inner Circle... on the Intelligence Committee or something, so he wouldn't have to make shit up about al Qaeda and Iran.

Oh, yeah... that "death blow" thing? Graham was right about one thing: the idea that this was an out-of-control demonstration because of a movie, while not IMMEDIATELY discountable, did become an embarrassing story in a week or so. But this latest article hardly was a "death blow" to that story. In fact, the news article itself turned into a death blow for Graham's "death blow" scenario.

But the reichwing is too stoopid to notice, they will STILL park their noses in Graham's ass... or Ted Cruz's for that matter... no matter HOW many times they get walked off a cliff.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 2:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Hilary has *ALREADY* bagged up 2016, bought and paid for, so you better just start learning to deal with it, you cretins.



Future Superdelegates Are Already Kissing Up to Hillary 2016
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/hillary-clinton-2016-super
delegates-endorse

Quote:

Those superdelegates—796 current and former Democratic politicians who could have brokered a deadlocked convention—were an afterthought in the end, as Obama secured a clear majority of delegates from the primaries and caucuses. But this time around, perhaps to preserve their relevance, some of those superdelegates are jumping in early to sway the race in Clinton's favor before it even starts—and before HRC even declares an intention to run.

The Iowa caucuses are still more than two years away, but nearly every prominent Democratic politician has already endorsed Clinton, rushing over each other to effusively praise the would-be president and offer their full-throttled support.


*smug smirk*
Ahem.

-Frem

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Friday, November 8, 2013 3:01 PM

STORYMARK


To be fair, she was once considered a lock for 2008.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 8, 2013 3:03 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


...and that super delegates are mearly for the primaries. Which if they did go against someone that won the primary the blowback would cost her general election.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 3:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think you're overlooking the weightier part of Frem's argument, which is that the wealthy... who do a lot of candidate-winnowing and candidate-promotion by sheer force of money... will look at the clusterfuck that is the GOP, and invest their money elsewhere. That doesn't say anything good about the Dems, but it makes sense from the corporate POV.

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Friday, November 8, 2013 11:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Exactly - from an objective standpoint, the GOP is a damn shaky bet, lacking popular support, cohesion and demonstrable effectiveness.
So the money men are going to bet the "sure thing", ESPECIALLY after being burned a couple times by the GOP getting hammered under after presenting themselves as one, while counting on the ability to outbribe any grassroots movement by a significant margin.

If you're gonna flood someones campaign coffers, you better make damn sure they actually get into the office you want to purchase, and the kingmakers know damn well which way the wind is blowing.

It's not like left-right politics means a thing to them, cause the way they think, ENOUGH money can "buy" ANYONE, or run them out of office should they fail to play along - and when it comes to political branding, the chaos in the ranks of the GOP and subsequent ineffectiveness, combined with the lack of any viable candidate, has made them a poor choice, especially in light or repeated failures due to inability to face objective realities.

Ideology might mean something to the person holding it, but it doesn't put money in the kingmakers pockets, and soooo...
The GOP gets the Admiral Ozzel treatment, for much the same reasons he did.



-Frem

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:11 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Lara Logan has hit the point where the only thing you can say about her as a journalist is... "Nice tits."

That's not because she should be viewed as a sex object; it's because she SHOULDN'T be viewed as any kind of journalist.

It makes me wonder how she got the job and how she keeps it.

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Lara Logan has hit the point where the only thing you can say about her as a journalist is... "Nice tits."




Disgusting.

I bet you wish you were in on attacking her, in Tahir Square.


Davies worked for the State Dept, WAS in Libya. His boss told him NOT to go, and he claims he went. And didn't ask for money.

I don't think it's as open as shut as some are making it out to be.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 12:47 PM

ELVISCHRIST





"I think it's part of this sort of blame game society in the sense that it's always got to be someone's fault instead of the fact that sometimes accidents happen." - Rand Paul

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I bet you wish you were in on attacking her, in Tahir Square.
Yanno, when I call you "stupid", I can point to the stupid things you said. YOU, OTOH, just make up shit whole cloth, and attribute things to people that they never said, like the thread where you said the the Dem party wanted to label all returning soldiers as potential terrorists. You couldn't back THAT up, either. It's called "strawmanning"... a fancy kind of lying... in case you couldn't figure out that word on your own.


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Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... the wealthy... who do a lot of candidate-winnowing and candidate-promotion by sheer force of money... will look at the clusterfuck that is the GOP, and invest their money elsewhere."

Except the Koch brothers by name and ALEC.
list of corporations known to belong:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations

Except for BofA there doesn't seem to be a lot of 'financialism' businesses in ALEC. So it might end up a showdown of financialism on the one side looking for international profit opportunities and nervous about the GOP's interest in tanking the US economy, and corporations on the other, looking to globally cheapen labor (here in the US too).


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Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"It's called "strawmanning" ...

Nah, it's called trolling. If he were actually interested in discussion, and actually presented a point to discuss, it would be strawmanning. But it was a crude personal insult devoid of any relevance to the topic and designed to get a rise out of the reciepient (and derail any discussion of the topic at hand - he does that when he's losing).

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:35 PM

ELVISCHRIST


The "nice tits" comment isn't my usual self. It's not in keeping with my character. It is intended - poorly, no doubt - to illustrate what this incident basically reduces Lara Logan's appeal to, and my disdain for what they've done to 60 Minutes and the once-proud CBS News organization. If she isn't a top-notch investigative journalist, then what exactly does she bring to the table besides her looks? This story from the start had all the hallmarks of a piece that was just pandering to the slavering right-wing ideologues that FauxNews woos every day and every night. Is CBS trolling for the lowest common denominator now with their news division? It saddens me to see them join the ranks of resorting to yellow journalism and spokesmodels at the network that brought us Murrow and Cronkite.

It's the culture of the business at this point. And it's the culture that has made the news a business, and not a public service. News has been commodified by the insatiable need to be the first with the breaking story. Blame it on cable, blame it on CNN, blame it on the short attention spans of American consumers, but the actual news on television has become scarily shoddy, to the point where I won't even bother with network news anymore, because the only stories they're going to cover are the same things I read on facebook two days earlier, or the things I've already read about in depth three weeks ago.

Network news isn't telling us what's going on. It's telling us what others are talking about. And folks, that's not news, it's gossip. Lara Logan has become a gossip-monger, a papparazzo, a spokesmodel, and as such, the only two things she's got to list as her qualifications are her breasts. She doesn't bring professionalism, integrity, or honesty to the table; she brings a pair of boobs. If I wanted a pair of boobs to tell me the gossip, I'd tune in to Morning Joe and get it from Joe and Mika.

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