REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In Landmark Vote, Senate Limits Use of the Filibuster

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, November 23, 2013 16:02
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Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:11 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The Senate voted on Thursday to eliminate the use of the filibuster against most presidential nominees, a move that will break the Republican blockade of President Obama’s picks to cabinet posts and the federal judiciary. The change is the most fundamental shift in the way the Senate functions in more than a generation.

The vote was one that members of both parties had threatened for the better part of a decade, but had always stopped short of carrying out. This time, with little left of the bipartisan spirit that helped seal compromises on filibuster rule changes in the past, there was no last-minute deal to be struck.

The vote was 52 to 48.

“I realize that neither party has been blameless for these tactics. They developed over the years,” Mr. Obama told reporters at the White House. “But today’s pattern of obstruction, it just isn’t normal. It’s not what our founders envisioned. A deliberate and determined effort to obstruct everything, no matter what the merits, just to refight the results of an election is not normal."

Tensions between the two parties have reached a boiling point in the last few weeks as Republicans repeatedly filibustered Mr. Obama’s picks to the country’s most important appeals court, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The Senate has voted on three nominees to the court in the last month. Republicans have blocked them all, saying they would allow the president no more appointments to that court.

Democrats, who filibustered their own share of Republican judicial nominees before they took control of the Senate, have said that what the minority party has done is to effectively rewrite the law by requiring a 60-vote supermajority threshold for high-level presidential appointments. Once rare, filibusters of high-level nominees are now routine. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/22/us/politics/reid-sets-in-motion-step
s-to-limit-use-of-filibuster.html?_r=0



I love John McCain's reaction: “Now there are no rules in the United States Senate,” he said.

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:18 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We all know what's coming, the nastiness, obscenities and visceral language is just hovering out there, waiting to happen. So I'll offer this opinion piece which reflects mostly how I feel on the matter, then turn my computer off for the night and watch the fun begin, because it would come no matter what anyone wrote anyway.
Quote:

'Nuclear option' makes GOP do its job

The Democratic Party's vote Thursday for the "nuclear option" was a move to deprive the minority party in the Senate of a procedure it has abused to block President Barack Obama's judicial nominees and other appointees. Before, a single Republican could unilaterally and without any reason block a nominee from receiving a simple up-and-down vote on the Senate floor.

Republicans have been gumming up the works of our government, both because they ideologically favor the dysfunction of government and because they want to fundamentally undermine the President at every step.

And so during Obama's five years in office, Republicans in the Senate have confirmed just one nominee to the Court of Appeals in Washington, often regarded as the nation's second highest court after the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, Republicans have blocked three appointees to the court and held up countless other nominations to other important posts.

There had been a concern that if Democrats went nuclear, nothing would stop Republicans from employing equally restrictive procedures should Democrats be the minority party in the Senate again.

And yet, to anyone watching Washington today, is there any question that Republicans have abandoned any sense of bipartisan decorum and are solely functioning as anti-government, anti-Obama bullies? If Republicans repeatedly resort to such childish thuggery when they're the minority party, it's hard to imagine them behaving much better if they're put in charge.

If Democrats didn't flip the nuclear switch now to allow appointments to go through, Republicans will surely flip it later. At least if Democrats do it first, they get to finally vote on some critical nominees and move the governance and sanctity of our nation forward.

In a statement, Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell had said that attacking Obamacare is a priority over voting to fill key vacancies in the nation's courts. Sadly, Republicans in Congress are making a mockery of their constitutional obligations while turning the hallowed halls of our government into nothing more than a playground for their ideological circus.

Sometimes that circus is so absurd it hurts.

For instance, Republicans have repeatedly tried to blame the financial crisis on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac rather than -- for instance -- the deliberate scamming of big banks that are now paying massive settlements for their wrongdoing. And yet that topsy-turvy reasoning aside, Republicans are blocking the nomination of Rep. Mel Watt to lead the Federal Housing Finance Authority, deliberately maintaining a vacancy in the position charged with regulating and monitoring Fannie and Freddie.

The Constitution lays out the Senate's responsibility in this regard as clearly secondary to, not equal with, the president's authority:

"[The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law."

Advice and consent. Not block and redirect and hold up and try to impose the will of the Senate's minority party on the nominations and actions of the president.

And so Democrats have finally had enough with a Republican Party that seems determined to pitch a temper tantrum about everything Obama does, no matter that he won two elections and his policies are widely popular with voters.

After all, even though the President's approval ratings took a hit, his numbers at 39% are still "sky high" compared with those of Congress, which has a 9% approval rating according to a recent Gallup poll. That's the lowest approval rating since Gallup has collected such data.

Moreover, while such low numbers overall likely reflect voter frustration with the partisan squabble of unproductive government, polls show that voters consistently blame Republicans far more than Democrats for this dynamic, whether for causing the government shutdown or deliberately sabotaging economic progress to hurt the President's image.

"Nuclear option" is a loaded term. Proponents of the measure call it the "constitutional option" in so far as it is constitutional and it would finally hold Senate Republicans' feet to the fire to perform their constitutional duty.

That indeed seems a more accurate description and one that reminds us all that it was Republicans' own reckless and destructive behavior that brought us to this point in the first place. http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/kohn-nuclear-option-filibuster-r
ules/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7




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Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


A tyrannical end to democracy.

Barry wanted to 'fundamentally transform 'this country. Welp, here ya go.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:02 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A tyrannical end to democracy.

Barry wanted to 'fundamentally transform 'this country. Welp, here ya go.



More like a return to democracy. You know were people get to vote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


About time. Now if only they would end the fillibuster completely.

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
About time. Now if only they would end the fillibuster completely.



Because what we need are 2 Houses of Representatives, , instead of just 1. Exactly as the Founders had intended...oh, wait. Never mind.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A tyrannical end to democracy.

Barry wanted to 'fundamentally transform 'this country. Welp, here ya go.



More like a return to democracy. You know were people get to vote.




That's exactly what the Founders did NOT want, direct voting by the people. Which is why the Representatives REPRESENT the people, and the Senate ( originally ) were set up to represent that States.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The Founders in 1806? Who were they?

In 1789, the first U.S. Senate adopted rules allowing the Senate "to move the previous question", ending debate and proceeding to a vote. Aaron Burr argued that the motion regarding the previous question was redundant, had only been exercised once in the preceding four years, and should be eliminated. In 1806, the Senate agreed, recodifying its rules, and thus the potential for a filibuster sprang into being.


As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.



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Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:05 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because what we need are 2 Houses of Representatives, , instead of just 1. Exactly as the Founders had intended...oh, wait. Never mind.



That is why the founders put the filibuster rule in the constitution....oh, wait. Never mind.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:07 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's exactly what the Founders did NOT want, direct voting by the people. Which is why the Representatives REPRESENT the people, and the Senate ( originally ) were set up to represent that States.



In people I meant the Representatives, they are the one who will not get to vote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's exactly what the Founders did NOT want, direct voting by the people. Which is why the Representatives REPRESENT the people, and the Senate ( originally ) were set up to represent that States.



In people I meant the Representatives, they are the one who will not get to vote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



The Filibuster is a SENATE rule, not a House of Reps rule. With out it, we basically now have House of Reps. The Senate has always been seen as the saucer, to cool things off.

The “Senatorial saucer” conversation between George Washington and Thomas Jefferson is part of U.S. Senate legend. Jefferson had returned from France and was breakfasting with Washington. Jefferson asked Washington why he agreed to have a Senate.

“Why,” said Washington, “did you just now pour that coffee into your saucer before drinking it?”

“To cool it,” said Jefferson; “my throat is not made of brass.”

“Even so,” said Washington, “we pour our legislation into the Senatorial saucer to cool it.”

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/the_senate_is_
the_saucer_into_which_we_pour_legislation_to_cool
/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 22, 2013 8:32 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's exactly what the Founders did NOT want, direct voting by the people. Which is why the Representatives REPRESENT the people, and the Senate ( originally ) were set up to represent that States.



In people I meant the Representatives, they are the one who will not get to vote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



The Filibuster is a SENATE rule, not a House of Reps rule. With out it, we basically now have House of Reps. The Senate has always been seen as the saucer, to cool things off.

The “Senatorial saucer” conversation between George Washington and Thomas Jefferson is part of U.S. Senate legend. Jefferson had returned from France and was breakfasting with Washington. Jefferson asked Washington why he agreed to have a Senate.

“Why,” said Washington, “did you just now pour that coffee into your saucer before drinking it?”

“To cool it,” said Jefferson; “my throat is not made of brass.”

“Even so,” said Washington, “we pour our legislation into the Senatorial saucer to cool it.”

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/the_senate_is_
the_saucer_into_which_we_pour_legislation_to_cool
/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall



Senators still represent the people of their states. How you did not understand that I do not know.

You should also learn that this rule change is only for Presidental nominations and that in the begining og the senate there was no filibuster.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 22, 2013 8:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap thinks like McCain; one rule change and now "there are no rules". The filibuster now can only not stop a vote on nominees. It will continue--and be even MORE abused by the Republicans, from what they're saying, to stop any votes on LEGISLATION. You keep making everything a holocaust, when it's only an argument.

I think damned FEW Senate "representatives" on the right actually "represent" their constituents these days...even fewer Congressmen, and apparently so do the American people, from all the polls. To say this stops them from doing so is absurd. Their actions have nothing to do with how the people in their states feel about individual NOMINEES, they've been quite clear they're holding up the nominations for POLITICAL PURPPOSES. To ignore that is to do nothing more than wave your partisan agena.


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Friday, November 22, 2013 9:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Republicans have only themselves to blame for Reid’s ‘nuclear option’

If the Founding Fathers could see the Senate after today’s vote by Senate Democrats to prohibit filibusters of most presidential appointments, they would, of course, be appalled. ”What are all these women doing here?” they would ask. But as for the filibuster reform, they’d wonder what all the fuss was about.

There is no mention of the filibuster in the Constitution. Until very recently in U.S. history, filibusters were rarely used. Half of all filibusters of executive-branch nominees have occurred under President Obama, and it was obvious from the first day of his presidency that Republicans would use the tactic to hamstring the government and block Obama.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, then, had every right to push for changes to filibuster rules four years ago, when GOP use of the filibuster was already out of control. But instead, Reid offered deal after deal to Senate Republicans. They accepted some. They honored none. Instead, the delaying tactics have continued. Frequently they have been used to block the implementation of laws the Senate had passed — the two-year filibustering of the first head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, for example.. And Republicans have paired judicial nullification with legislative nullification, blocking a record number of Obama’s judicial appointees — a power the Constitution actually mentions, unlike the filibuster — for no real reason other than that they were Democratic nominees, not Republican ones. (Democrats were guilty of this under President George W. Bush as well, it must be noted, and deserve criticism for that, even if the number of filibusters was lower.)

The result, as political scientist Gregory Koger summed up nicely for my Post colleague Ezra Klein, has been the solidifying of a new order in the U.S. system of government:
Quote:

Over the last 50 years, we have added a new veto point in American politics. It used to be the House, the Senate and the president, and now it’s the House, the president, the Senate majority and the Senate minority. Now you need to get past four veto points to pass legislation. That’s a huge change of constitutional priorities. But it’s been done, almost unintentionally, through procedural strategies of party leaders.


This status quo is unacceptable and had to change.

But Reid never would have used the “nuclear option” without the lemming-like behavior of Senate Republicans. Less ideological GOP members could have voted more frequently to break cloture and force an up-or-down vote, as members of both parties have done, even as filibuster use has increased. They could have stopped the unprecedented number of filibusters of presidential nominations, given that the president has a clearly defined constitutional responsibility to appoint people. They could have stopped blocking duly passed laws. But they didn’t.

So Republicans decrying filibuster reform as “dictatorial” or “a day to be sad” or other hyperbolic claims should look in the mirror. No one forced them to turn filibusters from a rarity to an oft-used tool for nullification and unprecedented obstruction. They have only themselves to blame. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/11/21/republ
icans-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-reids-nuclear-option/?hpid=z4




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Friday, November 22, 2013 8:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:

Senators still represent the people of their states. How you did not understand that I do not know.

You should also learn that this rule change is only for Presidental nominations and that in the begining og the senate there was no filibuster.



They're suppose to represent the interests of the various STATES, while the House is to represent the PEOPLE. That's how it was suppose to work, as intended by the Founders.

Learn something about the topic before you spout off about it.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 22, 2013 8:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Rap thinks like McCain; one rule change and now "there are no rules".



Who thinks that ?




" It begins with judicial nominations... "

Gee, ya don't say ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 22, 2013 10:13 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


That was before he ran into the complete and utter lunacy that is the Tea Party.

Plus let not even look at the numbers when it comes to Filibusters because the GOP while Obama has been in office has set vast new records.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 22, 2013 11:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
That was before he ran into the complete and utter lunacy that is the Tea Party.




Utter nonsense. The TEA party make up a minority of the GOP. Oh, and they've been spot on, too, about spending as well as the disaster of O-Care. No, the Dims were against the nuke option before they were for it, and they had it right the first time. Which is why the sanity of the GOP didn't use it under W. The real lunacy comes from today's extreme, hyper far Left.

Quote:



Plus let not even look at the numbers when it comes to Filibusters because the GOP while Obama has been in office has set vast new records.




Doesn't matter. The issues are still exactly the same. The tyranny of the majority should be balanced. Remove all road blocks , as the Dims have done, and you're left with wild eyed 1 party rule. As we now have.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 23, 2013 12:50 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Exactly, this is where we agree. 2 functioning houses, with men, representatives doing the nation's work - as clearly described in the Constitution..............oh wait, never mind..........the excuse that republicans in Congress have is Obama isn't really the president (of course, they forget that he is in his 2d term, overwhelmingly so).

Question is, where are those men in Congress............seems we have a bunch of crybabies......Waaaaaaaaaaaaa, we want to be president, waaaaaaa


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
About time. Now if only they would end the fillibuster completely.



Because what we need are 2 Houses of Representatives, , instead of just 1. Exactly as the Founders had intended...oh, wait. Never mind.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 12:55 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Niki,

I read every word of that opinion piece and agree 1000%

Now the fun really begins, let the crying and whining begin..............
actually continues here as an addendum to Congress's crying, whining fits.


SGG

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Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly, this is where we agree. 2 functioning houses, with men, representatives doing the nation's work - as clearly described in the Constitution..............oh wait, never mind..........the excuse that republicans in Congress have is Obama isn't really the president (of course, they forget that he is in his 2d term, overwhelmingly so).

Question is, where are those men in Congress............seems we have a bunch of crybabies......Waaaaaaaaaaaaa, we want to be president, waaaaaaa


SGG



Your reply was completely pointless. You addressed nothing mentioned. Senators and Representatives are NOT identical, nor were they intended to be. Your lack of understanding of this point is telling.

No one claims that Barry isn't the President. That's what the Left said of W, after the 2000 election. 'Resident', I believe, is what the Left tried to label. So, swing and a whiff, on your part there.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:17 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Rap thinks like McCain; one rule change and now "there are no rules". The filibuster now can only not stop a vote on nominees. It will continue--and be even MORE abused by the Republicans, from what they're saying, to stop any votes on LEGISLATION. You keep making everything a holocaust, when it's only an argument.

I think damned FEW Senate "representatives" on the right actually "represent" their constituents these days...even fewer Congressmen, and apparently so do the American people, from all the polls. To say this stops them from doing so is absurd. Their actions have nothing to do with how the people in their states feel about individual NOMINEES, they've been quite clear they're holding up the nominations for POLITICAL PURPPOSES. To ignore that is to do nothing more than wave your partisan agena.



Your friend has a message :
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:18 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Niki,

I read every word of that opinion piece and agree 1000%

Now the fun really begins, let the crying and whining begin..............
actually continues here as an addendum to Congress's crying, whining fits.


SGG


Your friend has a message :
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
That was before he ran into the complete and utter lunacy that is the Tea Party.

Plus let not even look at the numbers when it comes to Filibusters because the GOP while Obama has been in office has set vast new records.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.


Your friend has a message :
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap's response addresses nothing. Of COURSE there are plenty of right-wing nutcases out there insisting Obama "isn't President", they've been in the news all along! We hear from one or two virtually every day.

There's a big difference between a contested election where JUDGES decide who will be President and conspiracy theories about Obama having been born in Hawaii, but of course that means nothing to the right wing.


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:25 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Rap's response addresses nothing. Of COURSE there are plenty of right-wing nutcases out there insisting Obama "isn't President", they've been in the news all along! We hear from one or two virtually every day.

There's a big difference between a contested election where JUDGES decide who will be President and conspiracy theories about Obama having been born in Hawaii, but of course that means nothing to the right wing.



Your friend has a message :
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Or could it be that you're just a racist cunt?


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Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:30 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...





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Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:41 PM

JONGSSTRAW





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Saturday, November 23, 2013 4:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...





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Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 05:27 - 6154 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
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human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
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Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
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Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts
You can't take the sky from me, a tribute to Firefly
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