REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

(Black) US airman stands his ground in Florida, convicted, sentenced to 25 years.

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Thursday, January 23, 2014 13:17
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Monday, January 20, 2014 9:56 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

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Monday, January 20, 2014 11:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


fuck

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Monday, January 20, 2014 11:50 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


WTF!? That law should be taken off the books, it makes no sense. It's as though they are saying "shoot to kill" and we'll let you walk, anything less and we'll send you to jail for 25 years.

WTF is wrong with Florida?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
http://thegrio.com/2013/12/04/us-airman-stands-his-ground-in-florida-s
entenced-to-25-years
/

Headline and link title about says it all.


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Tuesday, January 21, 2014 2:11 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
WTF!? That law should be taken off the books, it makes no sense. It's as though they are saying "shoot to kill" and we'll let you walk, anything less and we'll send you to jail for 25 years.

WTF is wrong with Florida?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
http://thegrio.com/2013/12/04/us-airman-stands-his-ground-in-florida-s
entenced-to-25-years
/

Headline and link title about says it all.



Dude, the law should be titled, " Hey, us white folks can kill them darkies and get away with it, but if one of them actually defends himself, we'll put him in prison for 25. We win either way..."

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Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just plain sick. Sadly, I'm not surprised, just sickened.

It's not an obvious "I can kill a black guy" thing, tho':
Quote:

A Tampa Bay Times analysis of nearly 200 cases — the first to examine the role of race in "stand your ground" — found that people who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time.

"I don't think judges or prosecutors or whoever works in the field of criminal justice is consciously saying black life is worth less than that of other ethnicities,'' said Kareem Jordan, a criminologist at the University of Central Florida. "But at the end of the day, it could be something that's subconscious going on if you look at how the media depicts black life.''

The Times analysis found no obvious bias in how black defendants have been treated:

• Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks.

• Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks.

• In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free.

• Overall, black defendants went free 66 percent of the time in fatal cases compared to 61 percent for white defendants — a difference explained, in part, by the fact blacks were more likely to kill another black.

"Let's be clear,'' said Alfreda Coward, a black Fort Lauderdale lawyer whose clients are mostly black men. "This law was not designed for the protection of young black males, but it's benefiting them in certain cases.''

The Times analysis does not prove that race caused the disparity between cases with black and white victims. Other factors may be at play.

The analysis, for example, found that black victims were more likely to be carrying a weapon when they were killed. They also were more likely than whites to be committing a crime, such as burglary, at the time.

Experts note that most cases have unique combinations of facts and circumstances that determine whether a person goes free or goes to prison. They caution against drawing conclusions on statistics alone.

And although the Times' analysis likely included most of Florida's fatal "stand your ground" cases, some could be missing. That can make a big difference when there are few cases to examine. For example, the Times found only 26 completed cases in which a black person was killed and only eight fatalities with a Hispanic victim.

The analysis, however, is supported by numerous studies showing disparities in the way whites and blacks are treated by the criminal justice system. Studies have found that all-white juries are more likely to convict black defendants. Someone who murders a white person is more likely to get the death penalty than someone who kills a black person.

Through news reports, official records and interviews with dozens of prosecutors, public defenders and attorneys, the Times compiled a database of 192 "stand your ground" cases that includes the race of every victim and defendant.

It is the first effort to determine how race affects the outcome for those who invoke the 2005 law.

The review found many cases where people went free after killing a black victim under questionable circumstances.

A Miami man stepped out of his home and shot his ex-wife's boyfriend at least 12 times as he sat in a car. A Jacksonville man standing in his garage shot to death an 18-year-old burglary suspect who was running away from his house. A West Palm Beach teenager shot an unarmed man he thought was demanding drugs.

But the Times found similarly questionable cases in which the victim was white or Hispanic. It also found that mixed-race cases — like that of Martin — are relatively rare.

Of the 88 fatal "stand your ground'' cases that have been decided, only about a fourth involved defendants and victims of different races — including six cases in which a white killed a black, five cases in which a black killed a white and six in which a Hispanic killed a non-Hispanic.

No charges were filed in most of those mixed-race cases.

Often, the self-defense circumstances were evident: A person was being robbed or beaten.

In other cases, the type that critics of "stand your ground'' consider questionable, people killed and went free when they might have avoided a conflict:

• Damian Niemeyer was standing at the bedroom window of his Royal Palm Beach townhouse in December when he saw three men trying to back his motorcycle onto a truck. He called 911, then yelled at the men. When one pointed a gun at the window, Niemeyer, who is white, fatally shot Benjy Young, a black teenager.

• Hygens Labidou, who is black, was driving in Deerfield Beach in 2007 when two white men jumped out of their pickup, pounded on his truck and yelled racial slurs. Labidou, still inside his car, fired his gun, striking both men and killing 28-year-old Edward Borowsky.

• In Pompano Beach in 2010, Patrick Lavoie, a white man, jumped out of his girlfriend's car and accused Cleveland Murdock, a black man, of tailgating. When Lavoie, who had a cigarette lighter in his hand, tried to reach through Murdock's passenger window, Murdock fatally shot him.

Among the few people to be charged in a mixed-race case: Gabriel Mobley, a black Miami Lakes man.

Four years ago, Mobley and some friends started arguing with two white patrons at a Chili's restaurant. When the bar closed, the dispute moved outside and one of the men punched Mobley's friend in the face. Mobley shot and killed both men.

Though Mobley claimed he was acting in self-defense, surveillance video showed one victim had his hands up when he was killed and the other did not seem to be reaching for a weapon. Neither man was armed.

After investigating for months, prosecutors charged Mobley with second-degree murder in what they called a key test of the "stand your ground" law.

Mobley's arrest was "very important because it sends a clear message,'' Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez-Rundle said at the time. "The Legislature passed the 'stand your ground' law, but it is not a free-for-all to execute people.'' http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-i
n-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152



It's a law that was written with the intent of selling guns, without regard to how they're used; leaving the determination up to individual juries makes it far too fallible, in my opinion.


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Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:49 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Giles says he pulled out the gun and fired one shot into the leg of his alleged attacker.

Three men were injured, wounded by bullet fragments. Giles was immediately arrested and charged with second-degree attempted murder.



...What the...

Okay I mean I get that if you hit an artery any wound can be deadly, but a person with gun training and a military background deliberately trying to shoot a leg to fend off an attacker is not 2nd degree attempted murder. Yes, it meets various legal standards for that charge - the bar fight, the unpremeditated nature of the act, the use of a lethal weapon - except it didn't KILL anyone and there arguably couldn't have been a reasonable expectation from the defendant or anyone else that it would have killed anyone.

The only thing I can figure is that they determined that the defendant escalated the fight from an unarmed fight to him having a gun, which rules out self-defense in most cases. But this would only be Aggravated Assault if the SYG defense did not hold.

It really does look bizarrely like you can only claim self-defense if it actually kills the other person, which is the stupidest definition of self-defense I've ever heard.

EDIT:

Quote:

The jury disagreed however and Giles was ultimately convicted in August of 2011 of the lesser charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon


Oh thank goodness, they aren't completely crazy. It's still stupid, but this isn't mindbogglingly stupid.

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Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just mind-bogglingly racist. It appears the syg law is only for whites.

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Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:45 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Just mind-bogglingly racist.


Could be, although at least the application of the law in this particular case is not as horrific as I initially thought. It could be racism why they interpreted the law that way in this case, and in other high profile cases interpreted it another way. I'm not familiar enough with the cases or the jury/judges/lawyers/social climates in question to say for certain if it is or isn't racism.

All I know is, there are workable stand your ground laws that I know of in some states. Florida is not one of them, for various reasons.

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Thursday, January 23, 2014 1:17 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Just mind-bogglingly racist.


Could be, although at least the application of the law in this particular case is not as horrific as I initially thought. It could be racism why they interpreted the law that way in this case, and in other high profile cases interpreted it another way. I'm not familiar enough with the cases or the jury/judges/lawyers/social climates in question to say for certain if it is or isn't racism.

All I know is, there are workable stand your ground laws that I know of in some states. Florida is not one of them, for various reasons.



Per testimony at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings last October, Blacks who claim the "stand your ground" defense are not convicted 69% of the time, as opposed to Whites at 62%, and Hispanics at 76%.

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/10-29-13LottTestimony.pdf


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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