REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

This CEO Wants To Pay ‘Mentally Retarded’ People $2 Per Hour

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, February 2, 2014 16:08
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5591
PAGE 1 of 2

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:06 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Look inside the mind of a Wall Street type, and you are likely to find that there is not much there that relates to the real world. That is what The Daily Show correspondent Samantha Bee reveals in her interview with investment broker Peter Schiff. Mr. Schiff has some very interesting thoughts about raising the minimum wage.

Peter Schiff, who is CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, and who also hosts a radio show where he shares his libertarian ideas on finance and the economy, has a history of attacking those who support raising the minimum wage.

In his Daily Show interview, Schiff has some interesting ideas about the minimum wage. He starts out with the time honored conservative argument that raising the minimum wage will “destroy jobs.” Then it gets bizarre. Bee observes: “Why have one job for $15 an hour, when you could have two jobs, for $7.50 an hour?” Schiff asks her “Would you rather do that, or pay twice as much for your burger?”

That is a huge theme with opponents of a minimum wage hike. They want to plant the idea in everyone’s head that doubling the minimum wage will result in doubling of prices of popular products. That claim is completely false. Take McDonalds. In Australia, where the minimum wage is $17.05, or almost $15 in U.S. currency, a Big Mac costs $4.94. That’s about $4.32 in American dollars. In the U.S., a Big Mac costs $4.20.

Schiff then tells Bee that McDonalds workers do not appear to be “desperate and hungry.” He says they appear to be “young kids enjoying themselves.” This is another theme of the anti-minimum wage crowd: minimum wage jobs are largely held by teenagers doing their first job. When it comes to jobs in fast food, the New York Times reports:
Quote:

The classic image of the high-school student flipping Big Macs after class is sorely out of date. Because of lingering unemployment and a relative abundance of fast-food jobs, older workers are increasingly entering the industry. These days, according to the National Employment Law Project, the average age of fast-food workers is 29. Forty percent are 25 or older; 31 percent have at least attempted college; more than 26 percent are parents raising children. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/nyregion/older-workers-are-increasin
gly-entering-fast-food-industry.html?_r=0



Bee poses the following question in response to Schiff’s claim: "Hypothetically, how would you tell a 48 year old man, with a bachelor’s degree, who works full time in fast food, that he is not entitled to a living wage?"

Schiff scoffs at the question, and responds “You’re creating a hypothetical situation that’s not going to exist.”

What comes next? You guessed it. Bee interviews a 48 year old man with a bachelor’s degree who works in fast food.

Schiff saves the most incredible comment for last. Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’” Yes, you heard that right. Libertarian one percenter Peter Schiff thinks that exploiting the mentally handicapped as a source of cheap labor is a fine idea.

After that doozy, Schiff leaves Bee with this thought: "I believe in the principles that the country was founded on. I’m not gonna say that we’re all created equal. You’re worth what you’re worth." http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/01/29/ceo-minimum-wage-mentally-reta
rded-2
/



Video at: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-28-2014/wage-against-the
-machine

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Outrageous ! Why so much ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:25 PM

BYTEMITE


I'm sorry, AU, I wanted to respond to your bait, but my brain is too busy being fucked over by the fact that the guy apparently thinks that The Declaration of Independence doesn't constitute the principles that the country was founded on.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm sorry, AU, I wanted to respond to your bait, but my brain is too busy being fucked over by the fact that the guy apparently thinks that The Declaration of Independence doesn't constitute the principles that the country was founded on.




I only said what others were thinking.


But honestly, saying that " all men are created equal " isn't saying all employees are equally of value to the employer. And for this 'living wage' crap. That truly IS hypothetical. Anyone who has a bach degree from a 4 year college and doesn't rise above a min wage job, that's just sad. I mean, is that ALL he does for a living ? 1 job, which pays min wage ? And that's his CAREER ? Sure, short term, that's different. Or possibly climbing up in the company. Or while looking for other work, or with a second job. Fine. But he's right. Burger flippers and fry station employees aren't suppose to make careers doing those jobs.

I missed the bit of paying $2 an hour.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:36 PM

BYTEMITE


I was thinking about how that CEO managed to get out of every Social Studies and American History class in school.

I think it involved lies and time travel.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



What's wrong with understanding the idea that you're hired to do one of 2 things, at least.

Make the company money, or save the company money.

They don't OWE anyone a " living wage ".

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:50 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

They don't OWE anyone a " living wage ".


Noo... They don't owe anyone anything, true. But it is actually kind of a smart thing to do. Because if lots of people can't make enough money to survive, they tend to get a little bit unruly.

Also it screws up the economy if the majority of people can't afford basics of living like food or shelter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

They don't OWE anyone a " living wage ".


Noo... They don't owe anyone anything, true. But it is actually kind of a smart thing to do. Because if lots of people can't make enough money to survive, they tend to get a little bit unruly.



Then that's on them, not the company.

Quote:


Also it screws up the economy if the majority of people can't afford basics of living like food or shelter.



An iPhone, 50" plasma and the latest Air Jordans aren't " the basics ". Folks need to make better choices. In where they work and on what they spend their $.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:32 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm sorry, AU, I wanted to respond to your bait,




Dont be a sucker.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm sorry, AU, I wanted to respond to your bait,




Dont be a sucker.



Byte knew I was kidding. Why don't YOU mind your own business.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Then that's on them, not the company.

An iPhone, 50" plasma and the latest Air Jordans aren't " the basics ". Folks need to make better choices. In where they work and on what they spend their $.



I think life has more than enough bullshit going on without expecting people to work five jobs to support a family, get jobs that they aren't trained or qualified for, and passing judgement for what they spend what money they do get on if they happen to buy something that makes their existence feel less shittacular.

So if employees can negotiate better wages with their employers, more power to them. And if employers are jerks about their wages, I am free to not like them, especially because I do not work for them.

Quote:

Byte knew I was kidding.


True enough - though it's more like I just try to give people the benefit of the doubt unless no other conclusion remains then I specifically knew for certain you were pulling people's leg. I just argue because I feel like it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

So if employees can negotiate better wages with their employers, more power to them.




Hell yeah! Absolutely agree with ya there, 100%.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Brenda, pretty much my reaction as well, albeit a "bit" moreso, one might say. ;o)


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Schiff saves the most incredible comment for last. Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’” Yes, you heard that right. Libertarian one percenter Peter Schiff thinks that exploiting the mentally handicapped as a source of cheap labor is a fine idea.



Looking at this, I can't see where Mr. Schiff thinks exploiting the mentally handicapped is a fine idea.

I'll agree that using a mentally handicapped person as an example of someone who not only couldn't do a particular job, but couldn't be trained to do it is insensitive, but nowhere does he say they should be hired at $2.00 an hour.

So we got the usual spin going on here.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Schiff saves the most incredible comment for last. Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’” Yes, you heard that right. Libertarian one percenter Peter Schiff thinks that exploiting the mentally handicapped as a source of cheap labor is a fine idea.



Looking at this, I can't see where Mr. Schiff thinks exploiting the mentally handicapped is a fine idea.

I'll agree that using a mentally handicapped person as an example of someone who not only couldn't do a particular job, but couldn't be trained to do it is insensitive, but nowhere does he say they should be hired at $2.00 an hour.

So we got the usual spin going on here.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



Did you actually watch the clip, or just fall back on "Niki doesn't like it, so it must be okay?" Because it sounds like the latter.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:08 PM

ELVISCHRIST





Here's the "libertarian" line:

"I believe in the principles that the country was founded on. I’m not gonna say that we’re all created equal."


Fooey. Who needs that whole Declaration of Independence thing, right?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:09 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Schiff saves the most incredible comment for last. Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’” Yes, you heard that right. Libertarian one percenter Peter Schiff thinks that exploiting the mentally handicapped as a source of cheap labor is a fine idea.



Looking at this, I can't see where Mr. Schiff thinks exploiting the mentally handicapped is a fine idea.

I'll agree that using a mentally handicapped person as an example of someone who not only couldn't do a particular job, but couldn't be trained to do it is insensitive, but nowhere does he say they should be hired at $2.00 an hour.

So we got the usual spin going on here.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."





Clearly.


After all, quoting the guy's response to a direct question just has to be "the usual spin."


Quote:

Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be? What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’”




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:23 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:


After al, quoting the guy's response to a direct question just has to be "the usual spin."






Anything that doesn't fit cleanly into their pre-approved narrative is considered spin now.

Same people who actually bout it with Newt when he said that anyone who quoted his EXACT WORDS was being dishonest....




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:09 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:



Here's the "libertarian" line:

"I believe in the principles that the country was founded on. I’m not gonna say that we’re all created equal."


Fooey. Who needs that whole Declaration of Independence thing, right?



So everyone is the same height and weight. Has the same ability to learn or function. Has the same amount of motivation, honesty, ability to communicate. Everyone can hit a major league fastball or run a 4 second forty. After all, we're all equal. Right?

"All men are created equal" means have equal rights under the law, as pretty much anyone who actually studies, instead of trolls, knows.

Read the whole sentence, and maybe you'll understand.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:10 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Disabilities_Act


Equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. Hence "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:44 PM

STORYMARK


Elvis mentions equal rights, as specified in the freakin' Declaration of Independance - and Geezer hides behind a straw-man about professional baseball. And then implies Elvis is a troll for citing actual law instead of relying on such rhetorical bullshit.

Pathetic.

I think he just openly declared he can't manage an actual conversation, much less debate.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm sorry, AU, I wanted to respond to your bait, but my brain is too busy being fucked over by the fact that the guy apparently thinks that The Declaration of Independence doesn't constitute the principles that the country was founded on.




I only said what others were thinking.


But honestly, saying that " all men are created equal " isn't saying all employees are equally of value to the employer. And for this 'living wage' crap. That truly IS hypothetical. Anyone who has a bach degree from a 4 year college and doesn't rise above a min wage job, that's just sad. I mean, is that ALL he does for a living ? 1 job, which pays min wage ? And that's his CAREER ? Sure, short term, that's different. Or possibly climbing up in the company. Or while looking for other work, or with a second job. Fine. But he's right. Burger flippers and fry station employees aren't suppose to make careers doing those jobs.

I missed the bit of paying $2 an hour.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall






I pull a lot of pallets where I work today.....

I've been laid off 4 times in my life, two of those jobs making over 50k a year....

For the most part life is good and I try not to let things get me down....

Especially, given my brother's lot in life, I should be more understanding, but I really resent the fact that one of the guys that stacks our pallets is absolutely terrible at his job. He celebrated his 25th year with the company. He can't read, not that we should hold that against him, but I'm just mentioning that because there are some higher-ups that would be THRILLED to see me go because I have a big mouth.

Boy.... it must be nice to screw up the world's easiest job every single day for 25 years straight and still have a job to come back to and screw up all over again tomorrow.

I've suggested no less than 10 times that he should work overnight for a week or two and be forced to pull one of his own stacked pallets to the floor to work it and he might learn why people hate him so much.

I'm reminded about how little my opinion matters at my job these days and that he's been working for the Mart at least 7 years longer than I've been in the job market......


That being said, I wish he was making a lot more than the shit wages we get. He should be a goddamned millionaire while we're at it.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

"*cough* equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. *cough*"

As is frequently the case, Byte nailed it.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



@6IX -

Here's a lesson you might want to remember in the future.

What another man makes or how long his johnson is should be of no concern to you. That's HIS business, not yours.

Live your own life.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:00 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Disabilities_Act


Equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. Hence "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."



If you can do the job - or even if you can do the job with accommodations.

You might be able to hire a blind person as a book editor, for example, if you could provide braille or verbal transcripts. However, someone not mentally able to understand the story, or understand the rules of grammar and punctuation, would not be suitable.

If someone was so mentally handicapped that they could not perform any task suitably, would you hire them?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:08 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Clearly.


After all, quoting the guy's response to a direct question just has to be "the usual spin."


Quote:

Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be? What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’”






"describe a person whose work would be worth..." is the same as "...thinks that exploiting the mentally handicapped as a source of cheap labor is a fine idea" to you?

Really need to work on that reading comprehension.






"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:10 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

"*cough* equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. *cough*"

As is frequently the case, Byte nailed it.




Here's the world for you, then.

Quote:

Because of Amendments to the Constitution, every American is fully equal, meaning that no one is smarter, better-looking, stronger, or faster than anyone else. The Handicapper General and a team of agents ensure that the laws of equality are enforced. The government forces citizens to wear "handicaps" (a mask if they are too handsome or beautiful, earphones with deafening radio signals to make intelligent people unable to concentrate and form thoughts, and heavy weights to slow down those who are too strong or fast).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:11 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

You might be able to hire a blind person as a book editor, for example,


It's actually much easier than that. Most book drafts are electronic nowadays, and there are programs that can read them. Remember Riona? Granted, she wasn't an editor of anything, and she didn't always have correct spelling or punctuation, but she used a program like that.

Quote:

If someone was so mentally handicapped that they could not perform any task suitably, would you hire them?


Such a person would unlikely be able to even submit an application, let alone interview, and also would likely be confined to a hospital or under the jurisdiction of a caretaker. We are not talking about that.

We are talking about the wide range of people who have disabilities but are functional enough to seek a job, and therefore perform a task.

As a reminder, I myself am mentally challenged and abnormal, with various diagnosed health differences. You seem to be labouring under some common misconceptions and stereotypes.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Don't let him get to you, Byte; remember, from all we've seen, Geezer is of the "every man for himself" mentality. You and I, the blind, the handicapped, the elderly, everyone who isn't up to his "standards", would be left to starve. Well, we'd be allowed to work, for what people like he decide we're worth paying, and left to see if we could avoid starving on that. Just be grateful people like Geezer don't (yet) run the world.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:11 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Such a person would unlikely be able to even submit an application, let alone interview, and also would likely be confined to a hospital or under the jurisdiction of a caretaker. We are not talking about that.



We're not? Seems to me that's exactly what someone would mean when describing someone who could not hold a job worth $2.00 an hour.

Quote:

We are talking about the wide range of people who have disabilities but are functional enough to seek a job, and therefore perform a task.

As a reminder, I myself am mentally challenged and abnormal, with various diagnosed health differences. You seem to be labouring under some common misconceptions and stereotypes.



Really think you're getting pretty far afield from what Mr. Schiff meant.

If someone asked you to describe a worker who would be worth $2.00 an hour, what would you say?

The fact that you misconstrue his, or my, idea that some folks are not functional enough to function in the workplace to a blanket condemnation of folks who are differently abled just shows me that the spin in Niki's post is working.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:13 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Don't let him get to you, Byte; remember, from all we've seen, Geezer is of the "every man for himself" mentality. You and I, the blind, the handicapped, the elderly, everyone who isn't up to his "standards", would be left to starve. Well, we'd be allowed to work, for what people like he decide we're worth paying, and left to see if we could avoid starving on that. Just be grateful people like Geezer don't (yet) run the world.




Ahh. Niki the mind reader again.

So let me ask you to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 12:10 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.





RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!
As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is
whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies



And this is Geezer being non-partisan ... HAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
Dem Super Pac slams Obamacare because it really sucks and will cause herpes
Geezer
So some Democrats are running on pointing out that the Healthcare.gov rollout was an unmitigated disaster.

I feel so vindicated.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 9:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer is changing the issue. The gentleman in question is against raising the minimum wage,

"Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’”

Schiff said quite clearly: ""If we eliminated the minimum wage law then individuals would be free to accept jobs at whatever pay they're able to get." Ergo, if a mentally-retarded person's only able to get $2 an hour, they'd have to accept that. His meaning is absolutely clear; employers should be free to pay however little THEY thinks a person is "worth". That's what their whole argument is about: That the people who own each individual business should be free to decide how little they pay their employees, with no restraints, period.

As to "describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour", that's what Geezer doesn't get. There IS no such person. If a person is employed to work, they should be paid a minimum decent wage, simple as that. If they're NOT ABLE to do any job that is worth a decent wage, then in our society, we take care of them; that's what Geezer and his ilk are against.

The above quote comes from http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=46306, where they rant and rave about how he was manipulated into saying what he did, that it took them hours to try and "trap" him into saying it. The fact is no doubt he wouldn't answer the question straight out, knowing how any answer would look…as evidenced by "He then fumbles around looking for a description." We've seen it many times before.

But what I found most amusing about the article is the following: "Of course, an increase in consumption is not good for the economy, what's good for the economy is an increase in production, which price controls only serve to diminish." Get it? It doesn't matter how little you pay people, because what they CONSUME doesn't run the economy; what they PRODUCE does. What more needs be said?

Let's see if Geezer can answer the question: "Who would you pay $2 an hour as an employer?"


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 9:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

"Bee asks him to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour. Schiff says “You know somebody who might be?” He then fumbles around looking for a description, before asking Bee “What’s the politically correct word for ‘mentally retarded?’”


Bee asked HIM. Note this wasn't a position Schiff was promoting, on his own. He gives an honest, on the spot answer to the question, as HE saw it.

I do think you're missing the significance of that, by focusing far too much on his answer.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 9:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's almost a legitimate accusation, so I'll respond to it. Not "focusing" on that, Geezer made the point. The article notes numerous things wrong with what this man claims, such as "where the minimum wage is $17.05, or almost $15 in U.S. currency, a Big Mac costs $4.94. That’s about $4.32 in American dollars. In the U.S., a Big Mac costs $4.20."

There's also "He says they appear to be “young kids enjoying themselves" and the fact that "minimum wage jobs are largely held by teenagers doing their first job"; which is countered by "Because of lingering unemployment and a relative abundance of fast-food jobs, older workers are increasingly entering the industry. These days, according to the National Employment Law Project, the average age of fast-food workers is 29. Forty percent are 25 or older; 31 percent have at least attempted college; more than 26 percent are parents raising children."

As well as his statement that "a 48 year old man, with a bachelor’s degree, who works full time in fast food" could only be "a hypothetical situation that’s not going to exist", when she then goes on to "interviews a 48 year old man with a bachelor’s degree who works in fast food."

How about those?

I hate to tell you, but in an INTERVIEW, people ask questions to find out what the person being interviewed thinks, and if their responses don't make sense, they're questioned.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 11:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

So let me ask you to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour.


Apparently,

1) Someone who doesn't know any better and the business is okay cheating them.
2) Someone who could be arrested or deported if they complain.

There are no people who are legitimately worth only two dollars an hour in this economy, because that's barely enough to eat fast food for every meal with no cash left over, and definitely not enough to rent a place to sleep. To meet basic standards of living, as I said previously, they would have to work five other jobs at that rate.

In short, they do not exist, because no one, not even the "mentally retarded" with enough wherewithal to WANT to work, would accept those terms of employment. This is simple Supply and Demand.

Loaded question with a flawed basis to begin with.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 11:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I only said what others were thinking.
That was your first mistake. Others WEREN'T thinking it. Only you, rappy, only you. Yanno, I would think that you would be just a little gentler on the mentally deficient, seeing as you seem to have a lot in common with them.

AFA GEEZER is concerned... Geezer apparently has no ideas on a lot of topics, such as "What to do about recessions". Because he's completely unprepared to either explain or defend his position, he falls back on the whine "I'm just quoting someone else". Or in this case, a fellow rightwinger does it for him. In either case...


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 11:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


There are no people who are legitimately worth only two dollars an hour in this economy,



This is the correct answer - which clearly didn't even occur to the bozo in question, or the wingnuts defending him.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 11:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So let me ask you to describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour.-GEEZER

There are no people who are legitimately worth only two dollars an hour in this economy- BYTE

This is the correct answer - which clearly didn't even occur to the bozo in question, or the wingnuts defending him.- STORY


No, the correct answer is "babies". By rightwing metrics, babies are worth $2 an hour, maybe even less. I think we should put a cohort of them on the job market...oh, a thousand or so, for good statistics... and see how much they're worth. After six months, we can check in on them and see how well they've survived being on the job. If that doesn't work, maybe we should test four-year olds, and eighty-year olds. That will help up determine who is worth what.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 12:19 PM

BYTEMITE


...that is HILARIOUS. And suddenly I actually do want to see the empirical results of that experiment in a controlled ethical environment.

It'd be worth an ignoble award at the very least.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 12:20 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Mark, as I wrote "As to "describe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour", that's what Geezer doesn't get. There IS no such person." Byte nailed it: "There are no people who are legitimately worth only two dollars an hour in this economy".

Need to bear in mind that Schiff is an INVESTMENT BROKER, CEO and chief global strategist of Euro Pacific Capital Inc., a broker-dealer, which specializes in non-U.S. markets and securities. He began his career as a stockbroker at a Shearson Lehman Brothers brokerage. Daddy's in federal prison for tax evasion. That should tell you all you need to know about this guy; he has no "investment" in America doing well, and has been part of the problem, not the solution, from the beginning. Of course he believes in slave wages, it's what makes him his wealth.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BYTE... you're so BAAAAD!

But I can be worse

Select to view spoiler:


If the market for baby-power tells us that babies are worthless, then maybe we can test how much they're worth by selling them by the pound on the commodities exchange.- with thanks to Johnathan Swift, British satirist, for A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick,[1] commonly referred to as A Modest Proposal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal]


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:01 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:



Here's the "libertarian" line:

"I believe in the principles that the country was founded on. I’m not gonna say that we’re all created equal."


Fooey. Who needs that whole Declaration of Independence thing, right?



So everyone is the same height and weight. Has the same ability to learn or function. Has the same amount of motivation, honesty, ability to communicate. Everyone can hit a major league fastball or run a 4 second forty. After all, we're all equal. Right?




So is it okay to murder a poor person or a mentally handicapped person, since you (and Schiff) seem to be implying that some people just inherently have less "worth"?

If we're not all "created equal" with equal rights to equal pay under the law, then you've monetized people as being "worth" more in general, and others as being inherently worth less as a result.

Quote:


"All men are created equal" means have equal rights under the law, as pretty much anyone who actually studies, instead of trolls, knows.

Read the whole sentence, and maybe you'll understand.



Gosh, thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize that anyone who disagrees with you automatically qualifies as a "troll". I'll have to remember that next time you disagree with me on something.

Now, go back and read your own sentence. " 'All men are created equal' means have equal rights under the law..."

Do you dispute that there is a federal minimum wage law?

Quote:


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."




"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."


How did the minimum wage law(s) come to be? Was it by executive fiat? Was it through the decree of an all-powerful dictator? Was it through the elected representatives "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"?

Maybe you can clarify what that sentence means TO YOU. You're arguing against it and saying that we don't understand it.

What is the worth of a mentally handicapped person, in your view? What is their dollar value? Are they worth, say, three-fifths the value of a man?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:09 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Disabilities_Act


Equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. Hence "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."



If you can do the job - or even if you can do the job with accommodations.

You might be able to hire a blind person as a book editor, for example, if you could provide braille or verbal transcripts. However, someone not mentally able to understand the story, or understand the rules of grammar and punctuation, would not be suitable.

If someone was so mentally handicapped that they could not perform any task suitably, would you hire them?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."




Moving the goal posts, I see.


The question isn't "would you hire them?" - it's "who do you think should be paid $2 an hour?"

If the person in question is not suited to any job, then no, I wouldn't hire that person. I also wouldn't try to do an end-run around the law by saying that since they're not really suited for the job I hired them for, I should be able to pay them less than a third of the legal minimum.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:14 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Such a person would unlikely be able to even submit an application, let alone interview, and also would likely be confined to a hospital or under the jurisdiction of a caretaker. We are not talking about that.



We're not? Seems to me that's exactly what someone would mean when describing someone who could not hold a job worth $2.00 an hour.



That actually explains a lot.

You equate "mentally retarded" with "someone... so mentally handicapped that they could not perform any task suitably."


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:16 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

[D]escribe a person whose work would be worth $2.00 an hour.




"Nonexistent."






NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:23 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BYTE... you're so BAAAAD!

But I can be worse

Select to view spoiler:


If the market for baby-power tells us that babies are worthless, then maybe we can test how much they're worth by selling them by the pound on the commodities exchange.- with thanks to Johnathan Swift, British satirist, for A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick,[1] commonly referred to as A Modest Proposal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal]






Right-wingers are the kinds of folks who would argue that it's okay not to pay underaged prostitutes after fucking them because they aren't legally old enough to consent to the fucking, so therefore can't really work as prostitutes and thus don't deserve to be paid at all.

If honestly never occurs to them to just not fuck certain people. It's never a question of "should I fuck 'em?" - it's only a question of "How much can I fuck 'em out of?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:25 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

"*cough* equal protection under the law also applies to nondiscriminatory employment and fair wage practices. *cough*"

As is frequently the case, Byte nailed it.




Here's the world for you, then.

Quote:

Because of Amendments to the Constitution, every American is fully equal, meaning that no one is smarter, better-looking, stronger, or faster than anyone else. The Handicapper General and a team of agents ensure that the laws of equality are enforced. The government forces citizens to wear "handicaps" (a mask if they are too handsome or beautiful, earphones with deafening radio signals to make intelligent people unable to concentrate and form thoughts, and heavy weights to slow down those who are too strong or fast).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."





Does everyone pay the same "flat tax" in that world? :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 1:41 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


One of the things that angers me is how blithely these people classify the mentally retarded as only being worth "$2 an hour", when in fact many, MANY of them do work. http://work.chron.com/places-mentally-handicapped-people-work-1326.htm
l
Quote:

• Most mentally retarded adults can work and are able to hold steady jobs - if properly trained and placed in the right job.

• They succeed in tasks that are well explained.

• Most will try hard and stay with their jobs, they usually have a very good attendance record.

• They show a desire to learn as well as loyalty and pride in their work.

• There are many types of jobs they can do well; such as factory work, construction, clerking, carpentry or painting. http://webpages.ursinus.edu/bestbuddies/page9.html


As it happens, one of my last jobs was desktop publisher for a nonprofit servicing the mentally retarded (NOT "mentally ill"). While certainly there were those incapable of working, I knew many who lived in group homes, held full-time jobs and supported themselves. If people like this had their way, they wouldn't even earn minimum wage and, one can only assume, would end up on the street.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 31, 2014 2:43 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


If people like this had their way, they wouldn't even earn minimum wage and, one can only assume, would end up on the street.





And that is ENTIRELY their goal. See, once you put enough people out on the streets and out of resources, you'll have a pliable, readily-available cheap work force that will take whatever job you offer them, at whatever wage you decide they're "worth" that day. The GOP fully intends to have a nation of day-laborers. And they see it as a beautiful thing. They won't have to pay any kind of "living wage" (which AuRaptor calls a myth anyway) because you'll get by on whatever scraps you can scrounge, and if that's not enough for you, go pound sand or stand in line at a soup kitchen.


The mistake you're making, darling Niki, is that you view this as a flaw in their plan, while I see it as THEIR PLAN. Once you see these people clear and for what they really are, you'll realize how monstrous they truly are.


Witness the lunches taken from kids' hands in Utah and thrown in the trash, all to "teach them a lesson."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 11:50 - 3410 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, March 28, 2024 11:18 - 2071 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Thu, March 28, 2024 11:16 - 6 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 05:27 - 6154 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
Wed, March 27, 2024 11:59 - 16 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Wed, March 27, 2024 10:57 - 49 posts
Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL