REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In case anyone's interested, Venezuela is waging war on its students...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Friday, May 3, 2019 13:11
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Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:41 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Yeah, and cross-compare the sources and see what they're saying, what matches and what doesn't - this'll soon show you that 90% of American "news" is the same fucking copy/pasted propaganda press release repeated a million times without so much as a grammar and spelling check, much less a fact check.

That said, here's an introduction to the fuckhead the American Black Bag Boys wanna prop up, so that we can loot their country unhindered in exchange for keeping his ass in power.

Meet Venezuela's Opposition Leader: Front Man for the Oligarchs Sidelined by Hugo Chavez
http://www.alternet.org/world/meet-venezuelas-opposition-leader?paging
=off¤t_page=1






And the guy who wrote this, Max Blumenthal, used to work for Media Matters and appears on RT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Blumenthal

Always check both sides.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:59 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

So not exactly "Fair and Balanced", eh?

I'm not claiming that anyone's media is fair and balanced.



When you cite them as support for your points, while stating that opposing views are, in effect, all propaganda, seems you put more faith in what's pretty obviously an organ of the Venezuelan government rather than in CNN or other international media.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:00 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Way to go with the strawman - AGAIN - dude!

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!
As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is
whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies



And this is Geezer being non-partisan ... HAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
Dem Super Pac slams Obamacare because it really sucks and will cause herpes
Geezer
So some Democrats are running on pointing out that the Healthcare.gov rollout was an unmitigated disaster

I feel so vindicated.

"Just glad that some Democrats are acknowledging the bad job done in developing Healthcare.com." "it'll be interesting to see if these same Democrats acknowledge" "these Democrats seem to understand what the real Obama Kool-Ade drinkers still won't address" " it's about Democrats using criticism of the rollout in their campaign ads".




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Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

When you cite them as support for your points, while stating that opposing views are, in effect, all propaganda, seems you put more faith in what's pretty obviously an organ of the Venezuelan government rather than in CNN or other international media.
Yep, way to go, strawman!

Hmmm... so the question is... should I put more faith in an organ of the Venezuelan government, or in an organ of the US government? Asaaaand the answer is

Select to view spoiler:


... NEITHER!



DING! DING DING! I think we have winner here!

I put my faith in wherever the information is the most credible. I deconstructed the article on the Ukraine because (1) it was a very clear of example of asymmetric reporting and (2) it contradicted itself even within its own text and (3) used loaded words liberally. As an example of twisted reporting, it was a pretty damn good example. I try to apply that to EVERY article that I read.

Now, as far as twisted reporting and an example of the media trying to correct past (let's be generous in our characterization) errors, here's another prime example:

VENEZUELA: SORTING FACT FROM FICTION
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/americas/venezuela-fact-from-ficti
on/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


The article then goes on to supply a number of photos from Venezuela- a bleeding screaming child being treated in hospital, a young woman protester in a serious chokehold, a phalanx of riot police shooting rubber bullets point-blank at a protester who's holding his hands up.

Now, here's the kicker: The most dramatic photos, the ones just guaranteed to get your blood boiling, WERE NOT EVEN OF VENEZUELA. They were from places as far away as Syria, tweeted or in other ways passed on by "the opposition" as examples of the horrible violence being visited on them by that brutal dictator, Maduro. If you think that only the Venezuelan government has an agenda and is capable of lying, then you're in serious need of remedial logic 101.

CRITICAL THINKING: Learn to use it.


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Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here perhaps is the REASON why CNN reported on those erroneously attributed photos:

Quote:

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro told a CNN reporting team Friday that it could continue reporting in the South American country, a day after the government revoked or denied press credentials for CNN journalists.

Earlier, Maduro had said he would expel CNN if it did not "rectify" its coverage of anti-government protests. During a news conference aired live on state-run TV, Maduro reversed his early position, saying CNN could stay.

Following the more than two-hour news conference, officials told CNN that its journalists would be issued credentials to report within the country.

It was a bizarre end to the news conference that saw Maduro call out CNN, Fox News and other U.S.-based media, claiming they encouraged opposition forces against the government.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/americas/venezuela-cnn-journalists
/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


As reported by CNN.

Hmmm... CNN has it's reporters' credentials revoked for misreporting the news. Then it places a story correcting photos mis-attributed to Venezuela. Then it gets its credentials back. And this, according to CNN, is "bizarre".


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Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
[I put my faith in wherever the information is the most credible.



Seems to me you put your faith in the information that meets your political beliefs and preconceptions.

Quote:

Now, as far as twisted reporting and an example of the media trying to correct past (let's be generous in our characterization) errors, here's another prime example:

VENEZUELA: SORTING FACT FROM FICTION
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/americas/venezuela-fact-from-ficti
on/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


The article then goes on to supply a number of photos from Venezuela- a bleeding screaming child being treated in hospital, a young woman protester in a serious chokehold, a phalanx of riot police shooting rubber bullets point-blank at a protester who's holding his hands up.

Now, here's the kicker: The most dramatic photos, the ones just guaranteed to get your blood boiling, WERE NOT EVEN OF VENEZUELA. They were from places as far away as Syria, tweeted or in other ways passed on by "the opposition" as examples of the horrible violence being visited on them by that brutal dictator, Maduro. If you think that only the Venezuelan government has an agenda and is capable of lying, then you're in serious need of remedial logic 101.



And conflating the tweets of protestors with what the professional media is showing, and then using evil CNN's story on the misposting of pictures of tweeters as an example of the media as a whole misrepresenting events, has to be up for strawman of the year.

Quote:

CRITICAL THINKING: Learn to use it.


PROPAGANDA: Stop spouting it.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, February 23, 2014 9:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here perhaps is the REASON why CNN reported on those erroneously attributed photos:

Hmmm... CNN has it's reporters' credentials revoked for misreporting the news. Then it places a story correcting photos mis-attributed to Venezuela. Then it gets its credentials back. And this, according to CNN, is "bizarre".




Boy. You really are snowed by Maduro & Co., aren't you?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, February 23, 2014 9:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


CNN does have a history to kowtowing to foreign tyrannical leaders, like Saddam Hussein.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And conflating the tweets of protestors with what the professional media is showing, and then using evil CNN's story on the misposting of pictures of tweeters as an example of the media as a whole misrepresenting events, has to be up for strawman of the year.
Did CNN or other professional media post unattributed pictures which had been tweeted in its direction? I dunno. It would take some pretty detailed sleuthing to figure out where those pictures had been distributed by major media, if anywhere. But that's not what I said.

If you read my post CAREFULLY- something you have a really hard time doing!- you'll see that I didn't say that CNN lied. It was the opposition I was implicating. I choose my words quite carefully. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. The fact that I say "X" and you read "Y" isn't my fault, it's all the noise in your head keeping you from understanding my posts clearly.

Quote:

Boy. You really are snowed by Maduro & Co., aren't you?
Everything that I outlined was reported directly by CNN. So I'm just timelining events AS REPORTED BY CNN.

So, what part is wrong? The part where Maduro revoked their journalist credentials? The part where CNN posted erroneously attributed photos? The part where they got their credentials back, and called it "bizarre"?

Select to view spoiler:


One of the reasons CNN gave to Maduro to reinstate CNN credentials was because (they said) it was far better for Maduro to have on-the-ground western reporters than for the information void to be filled by the opposition. Think about it for a bit, and get back to me.




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Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... using evil CNN's story on the misposting of pictures of tweeters as an example of the media as a whole misrepresenting events, has to be up for strawman of the year."

You obviously don't know what a strawman argument is --- and SignyM's post wasn't one. The funny thing is, YOU post strawman arguments all the time. You also post many other logical fallacies as if they were valid arguments. Maybe you need to do some research on logical fallacies. It's easy enough to do. WIKI has a lot on that very topic.

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Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:19 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If you read my post CAREFULLY- something you have a really hard time doing!- you'll see that I didn't say that CNN lied. It was the opposition I was implicating.



"Now, as far as twisted reporting and an example of the media trying to correct past (let's be generous in our characterization) errors, here's another prime example:"

So the media is the opposition?

When you can't even keep your story straight, maybe you need to take a break.



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:42 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
So the media is the opposition?

To paraquote Jack Burton, What the hell does that mean? huh? The media is the opposition, I don't even know what the hell that means.

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Monday, February 24, 2014 1:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, this is how i read the situation:

No one had a successful action against Chavez (though they tried) because he was a personally EXTREMELY popular president - especially with the vast majority who were previously dying of poverty.

Venezuela has two ongoing problems - violence, and difficulty getting grocery items conveniently (though there is no actual malnutrition in the country - on the whole, Venezuelans are better nourished than their SA counterparts).

Maduro otoh is not as popular, and so the vultures are circling.

Several foreign rich businessmen are supporting wealthy students at private universities to instigate riots. These men have been associated with US efforts to overthrow Venezuela's DEMOCRATICALLY elected government in the past.

The US government may also be involved in reduced purchases of Venezuelan oil in order to break the economy.

The west is misrepresenting and misreporting the events to make the riots look like a large popular uprising, and to make the government look brutally repressive.

YEP, SAME OLD SHIT.

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Monday, February 24, 2014 4:49 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, this is how i read the situation:

No one had a successful action against Chavez (though they tried) because he was a personally EXTREMELY popular president - especially with the vast majority who were previously dying of poverty.

Venezuela has two ongoing problems - violence, and difficulty getting grocery items conveniently (though there is no actual malnutrition in the country - on the whole, Venezuelans are better nourished than their SA counterparts).

Maduro otoh is not as popular, and so the vultures are circling.

Several foreign rich businessmen are supporting wealthy students at private universities to instigate riots. These men have been associated with US efforts to overthrow Venezuela's DEMOCRATICALLY elected government in the past.

The US government may also be involved in reduced purchases of Venezuelan oil in order to break the economy.

The west is misrepresenting and misreporting the events to make the riots look like a large popular uprising, and to make the government look brutally repressive.

YEP, SAME OLD SHIT.

Yup. That's about it. International capital HATES the idea that anyone but them should benefit from Venezuela's oil.

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Monday, February 24, 2014 11:21 PM

FREMDFIRMA



And Kiki nails it, dead-bang-square.

Besides, it's not like our black bag boys are even hiding it anymore, mostly cause they're fucking incompetent and inexperienced, thanks to all the REAL black baggers worth a damn bailing out after one of their own (Valerie Plame) was tossed to the wolves for refusing to "cook" her assessments.

Damn shame none of em retired to Venezuela, or this little pocket coup attempt woulda come up short in a hurry.
FYI: That is why the alphabet boys didn't fuck with Greenwald in Rio, cause that's where a *lot* of em retired to, just so ya know.

-F

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Friday, May 3, 2019 10:09 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Blackwater founder Erik Prince has a ‘solution’ for Venezuela: send in 5,000 of his mercenaries

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-has
-a-solution-for-venezuela-send-in-5000-of-his-mercenaries


I don't know what to think of Mercs, in my gut I never had much respect for them thought of them more like treason creepy criminal like guns for hire who do stuff for the right price

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Friday, May 3, 2019 1:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


So, this is how i read the situation:
No one had a successful action against Chavez (though they tried) because he was a personally EXTREMELY popular president - especially with the vast majority who were previously dying of poverty.
Venezuela has two ongoing problems - violence, and difficulty getting grocery items conveniently (though there is no actual malnutrition in the country - on the whole, Venezuelans are better nourished than their SA counterparts).
Maduro otoh is not as popular, and so the vultures are circling.
Several foreign rich businessmen are supporting wealthy students at private universities to instigate riots. These men have been associated with US efforts to overthrow Venezuela's DEMOCRATICALLY elected government in the past.
The US government may also be involved in reduced purchases of Venezuelan oil in order to break the economy.
The west is misrepresenting and misreporting the events to make the riots look like a large popular uprising, and to make the government look brutally repressive.
YEP, SAME OLD SHIT. - KIK

Yup. That's about it. International capital HATES the idea that anyone but them should benefit from Venezuela's oil.- REAVERBOT



Once upon a time, REAVERBOT was a human being. And then Trump Derangment Syndrome happened.

Just sayin'.

This thread will be linked in the other thread about more recent events, because it shows the continuing story of "regime change" in Venezuela, and how nothing has changed (so far).

Thanks for reaching into the way-back machine, it helps show how situations, and people, evolve or devolve.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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