REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Urkraine's Bloodiest Day

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 30, 2022 20:29
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Thursday, February 20, 2014 7:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:



The conflict over Ukraine's future escalated on Thursday into the bloodiest day of violence since protests began, as the opposition routed thousands of riot police to regain control of central Kiev amid signs that the power base of embattled president Viktor Yanukovych was under threat.

Dozens died and hundreds were injured in a day of dramatic violence that turned into a seesaw contest and saw thousands of riot police scuttling from territory they seized on Tuesday. The day ended with thousands of Kiev residents patiently building city centre barricades in the cold and the dark.

Police deployed snipers and used live ammunition in a menacing escalation of the violence.

Guardian reporters saw 21 corpses on Independence Square, the crucible of the mass rebellion against Yanukovych, and in a nearby hotel converted into a makeshift field hospital. But the full death toll was impossible to verify: Oleh Musiy, head doctor for the opposition movement said 70 protesters died on Thursday, bringing the death toll in 72 hours to about 100. The health ministry said 67 people had been killed and 562 wounded since Tuesday. The interior ministry said three police were killed on Thursday.

As Moscow encouraged Yanukovych to crack down harder on the unrest and threatened to withhold crucial financial aid unless he did, and the European Union announced limited sanctions on individual Ukrainian officials, three EU foreign ministers spent almost five hours with the president, desperately seeking a way back from the brink through a compromise between his increasingly hardline regime and opposition leaders.

That would include the key opposition demand for early presidential elections, something Yanukovych has shown no sign of conceding since the trouble erupted in November.

They spoke of "possible signs of progress" after seeing the president. But Thursday's escalation occurred within hours of Yanukovych calling a truce in the dangerous spiral of violence that is also spreading beyond Kiev, splitting the country east to west, and raising fears of Ukrainian meltdown.
Link to video: Kiev rocked by violence despite Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovich's claim of truce

While the authorities blocked trains coming to Kiev from the anti-Yanukovych west, protesters in the east lay down on railway tracks to prevent the government transporting military reinforcements to the capital. Crimea, ardently pro-Russian if part of Ukraine, issued threats of secession should the country go into freefall. Reports from the west spoke of protesters ransacking military and police headquarters and seizing weapons, while the security services were said to be shredding documents in scenes that recalled the anti-communist revolutions of 1989 in Romania or East Germany.

But the authorities were willing to hit back hard by bringing in the army. "Military servants of the armed forces might be used in anti-terrorist operations on the territory of Ukraine," a defence ministry statement warned.

The security service announced national "anti-terror" operations, revealing that the authorities were struggling to maintain their grip. "In many regions of the country, municipal buildings, offices of the interior ministry, state security and the prosecutor general, army units and arms depots are being seized," said Oleksandr Yakimenko, the head of the state security service.

The mayor of Kiev, Volodymyr Makeyenko, a Yanukovych appointment, announced he was quitting the president's political party. "The events happening in the Ukrainian capital are a tragedy. I have decided to resign from the Party of the Regions." Ten Yanukovych MPs broke ranks and demanded mediation in the spiralling conflict by the EU and the US.

In Kiev, Pavel, 25, a masseur, who took part in Thursday's battle equipped with body armour, balaclava, sledgehammer, walkie-talkie, flares, and a knife, said: "We live for today. We have no idea what will happen tomorrow. We need a better life for Ukraine. For our children. This is just not normal."

The battle erupted as dawn broke on Thursday when radical street fighters among the protesters attacked and broke through the police lines established on Independence Square on Tuesday. A firefight left at least 10 dead, including nine opposition fighters. The militants then surged out of the square up the hill to the south where police snipers could be seen picking out targets as the city centre turned into a warzone.

The deafening noise included the clear sound of automatic weapons, as well as smoke and percussion grenades raining down on an avenue leading away from the square towards the parliament and the central bank. Demonstrators also reoccupied government buildings evacuated earlier in the week. Busloads of common riot police swiftly deserted the scene of the battle to be replaced by the special units of the Berkut security service. They, too, retreated very quickly, allowing the protesters to advance.

Dead and wounded were hauled away on their backs, on wooden planks, on makeshift metal shields and in blankets. Corpses lay temporarily abandoned on the streets. Police vehicles were set ablaze and then hacked to pieces.

Protesters ducked behind trees and ran for cover as police opened automatic gunfire. But by mid-morning the city centre was firmly in the hands of the opposition. The police seizure of the part of the square which cost 28 lives on Tuesday was finished, however temporarily. Some 60 riot police surrendered or were "taken prisoner" when the protesters stormed the police lines.

The security forces pulled back around two kilometres to form new lines. For the rest of the day the city's residents turned out to bring the hard core protesters food and drink and to help in erecting massive barricades.


At night, human chains of men and women, young and old, lined up to pass along tyres and bricks, rubble and debris that were wheelbarrowed in to build huge blocking points around the city centre in an attempt to keep the security forces at bay.

"I was watching it on TV and decided to come and help," said Yuri Kugno, 48, who works in a curtain design firm. "I'm going to build a barricade now."

"What is happening right now in Ukraine is criminal and anti-human," said Dr Olga Bogomolets, a professor of medicine. "All the people killed here had no guns or arms."

Her colleague, Natalya Hot, a gynaecologist and a hospital deputy director, , said of the ordeal she witnessed: "I still have some protective reaction in my brain as a doctor. But it was a horror. I could not imagine I would see what I'm seeing today in my life in my country."

"I accompanied them to make sure they were not beaten but forgiven," said Nikolai Himaylo, a Ukrainian Orthodox priest who administered the last rites to some of the dead. "I'm a witness to what has become a criminal state," he said. "Yanukovych cannot be forgiven. These boys are dying for freedom."

Dependent on Russian money and gas supplies since he spurned trade and political pacts with Europe in November, the spark for the crisis, Yanukovych was told by Moscow to maintain a hard line and warned that the financial aid could be turned off if he did not.

Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian prime minister, said that Yanukovych would have to restore order to qualify for the Russian help and that if he did not the opposition forces would use him as "a doormat".



from The Guardian

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



This is getting more attention, as it should. Venezuela, however.still eludes many news services.

George Takei's FB post mentions it, and those who follow him admit they've heard very little of Venezuela's troubles.

The world is only beginning to focus on the violence and death in Ukraine, where over 70 people have been killed by soldiers firing automatic rifles upon their citizens AFTER a cease fire was agreed to with the Opposition.

Meanwhile, barely a word has been printed about what is happening in Venezuela. Here is a glimpse of that. Stay informed, and stay tuned.


The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night – and the International Media Is Asleep At the Switch


http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/20/the-game-changed/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


This is from another post, and I will deconstruct the article you just posted according to the following thoughts...

Quote:

COUPLE OF STRATEGIES FOR CREATING AN EFFECTIVE ANTI-PROPAGANDA SHITSCREEN:

There are ALWAYS two visible sides, and usually many more hidden interests. Don't stop
asking questions until you have gotten answers to the following:

1) Who is on one side, and what are they fighting for? What percent of the population do they represent?
2) Who are their governmental and/or corporate/banking supporters?
3) Who is on the other side, and what are THEY fighting for? What percent of the population do they represent?
4) Who are THEIR governmental and/or corporate/banking supporters?
5) What are our (USA) politician's geopolitical and corporate interests, and how are they spinning this in our media?

And, I know this will sound overly cynical... to cynical to be trustworthy, but it is a lesson learned from decades of observation....

6) Be extremely cautious when the words "freedom", "freedom fighter", and "rebel" appear in our coverage. Those words are very powerful, and they have been used too many times to whip up support/ cover a multitude of sins. I can't emphasize this enough. I have never... and I mean NEVER.... as in, I literally can't think of a single intervention that we supported that was for "freedom"... seen those words mean what they're supposed to mean. Maybe in WW2, but that war is long gone. It's gotten to the point where I get a flinch reaction when I see them in the press. You should too.

That kind of complete information is very hard to find. It's meant to be, and the fact that it IS so hard to find should ALSO tell you something. But persist in looking, and look in as many places as you need to in order to find it. I've looked in RT, in the main Iranian newspaper, in zerohedge, CCTV (Communist Chinese TV), and many other places to find authentic data.




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Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


DECONSTRUCTION

Quote:

The conflict over Ukraine's future escalated on Thursday into the bloodiest day of violence since protests began, as the opposition routed thousands of riot police to regain control of central Kiev amid signs that the power base of embattled president Viktor Yanukovych was under threat.
Is it? I've looked over many websites, trying to get a sense of what the typical Ukrainian was thinking about the turn of events. Pro-rioter? Pro-government? Probably a mix of both. The last poll I saw said that 62% of the population was against the rioters. I have no idea how accurate that is, but it bears repeating that this is not a President who has NO SUPPORT among the populace, despite what the western media wants to imply. (as they make a point of implying in this article)

Quote:

Dozens died and hundreds were injured in a day of dramatic violence that turned into a seesaw contest and saw thousands of riot police scuttling from territory they seized on Tuesday. The day ended with thousands of Kiev residents patiently building city centre barricades in the cold and the dark.
"Kiev residents?" You mean those poor hapless, patient "residents" who stole 1500 guns and 10,000 rounds of ammo? Who set police on fire and occupied City Hall? To this day, even NPR is referring to these people as "protesters" when they should be called "rioters", "insurgents" or even "guerrillas".

Quote:

Police deployed snipers and used live ammunition in a menacing escalation of the violence.
Have seen actual footage of anti-government protests in Venezuela being shot at by USA-planted provocateurs. Not sure if this is the case here, but in the Venezuelan demonstrations the blame was instantly (and incorrectly) laid at the feet of the government.

Quote:

Guardian reporters saw 21 corpses on Independence Square, the crucible of the mass rebellion against Yanukovych, and in a nearby hotel converted into a makeshift field hospital. But the full death toll was impossible to verify: Oleh Musiy, head doctor for the opposition movement said 70 protesters died on Thursday, bringing the death toll in 72 hours to about 100. The health ministry said 67 people had been killed and 562 wounded since Tuesday. The interior ministry said three police were killed on Thursday.
Sure?

Quote:

As Moscow encouraged Yanukovych to crack down harder on the unrest and threatened to withhold crucial financial aid unless he did, and the European Union announced limited sanctions on individual Ukrainian officials, three EU foreign ministers spent almost five hours with the president, desperately seeking a way back from the brink through a compromise between his increasingly hardline regime and opposition leaders.
Why doesn't the EU offer aid? Why is it incumbent on Moscow?

Why is Yanukovych described as "hardline"? If, for example, there was a huge demonstration in Washington that occupied the Lincoln Memorial for three months, setting up a barricade, setting policemen on fire, occupying buildings, and eventually stealing guns, kidnapping police, and demanding that the government hold "early elections", would anyone here in the USA describe the President as being "hardline"? Or would they be thinking... Finally!!

Quote:

That would include the key opposition demand for early presidential elections, something Yanukovych has shown no sign of conceding since the trouble erupted in November.
Why should he? Elections are scheduled for next year (2015). Does this mean that anytime any group wants to become violent, the whole democratic process needs to be set aside for them?

Quote:

They spoke of "possible signs of progress" after seeing the president. But Thursday's escalation occurred within hours of Yanukovych calling a truce in the dangerous spiral of violence that is also spreading beyond Kiev, splitting the country east to west, and raising fears of Ukrainian meltdown.
Ah, well, they finally admit that opinion is divided in the Ukraine!

Quote:

While the authorities blocked trains coming to Kiev from the anti-Yanukovych west, protesters in the east lay down on railway tracks to prevent the government transporting military reinforcements to the capital. Crimea, ardently pro-Russian if part of Ukraine
WTF is that supposed to mean?...
Quote:

issued threats of secession should the country go into freefall. Reports from the west spoke of protesters ransacking military and police headquarters and seizing weapons, while the security services were said to be shredding documents in scenes that recalled the anti-communist revolutions of 1989 in Romania or East Germany.
Ah yes... "protesters" ransacking military and police headquarters! Curious use of language, that!

Quote:

But the authorities were willing to hit back hard by bringing in the army. "Military servants of the armed forces might be used in anti-terrorist operations on the territory of Ukraine," a defence ministry statement warned.

The security service announced national "anti-terror" operations, revealing that the authorities were struggling to maintain their grip. "In many regions of the country, municipal buildings, offices of the interior ministry, state security and the prosecutor general, army units and arms depots are being seized," said Oleksandr Yakimenko, the head of the state security service.

The mayor of Kiev, Volodymyr Makeyenko, a Yanukovych appointment, announced he was quitting the president's political party. "The events happening in the Ukrainian capital are a tragedy. I have decided to resign from the Party of the Regions." Ten Yanukovych MPs broke ranks and demanded mediation in the spiralling conflict by the EU and the US.

The US and the EU have done everything they can to ramp up the violence. The US was very openly talking about who they want to place in government and who should not be included. What kind of "mediation" can they possibly offer?

Quote:

In Kiev, Pavel, 25, a masseur, who took part in Thursday's battle equipped with body armour, balaclava, sledgehammer, walkie-talkie, flares, and a knife, said: "We live for today. We have no idea what will happen tomorrow. We need a better life for Ukraine. For our children. This is just not normal."
In defense of "normal?"

....

Quote:

Protesters ducked behind trees and ran for cover as police opened automatic gunfire. But by mid-morning the city centre was firmly in the hands of the opposition. The police seizure of the part of the square which cost 28 lives on Tuesday was finished, however temporarily. Some 60 riot police surrendered or were "taken prisoner" when the protesters stormed the police lines.
yep, those "protesters" again!



Okay, I'm tired of this. They didn't provide a decent timeline. They didn't mention that just a day before, Yanukovych declared amnesty. They interviewed no police. They didn't interview anyone who disagreed with the rioters/ insurgents. Except for some glancing mention that opinion really IS divided in the Ukraine ("if part of the Ukraine"???) they provided no analysis of how many are on each side, and which way opinion was trending, and which part of the opposition was in charge of this particular event. (Klitschko - the one that the USA doesnt like, I've read)

So, wow, tell me ...whose side is the Guardian REALLY on?? It's a little hard to tell!!!!

Propaganda 101

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:42 PM

CHRISISALL


Just one word....Miranda.

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:48 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Obama warns Ukraine that "there will be consequences", and within 24 hours their army mows down 70 people. Maybe next time he should wear his Presidential bicycle safety helmet when making stupid meaningless threats.

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:55 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama warns Ukraine that "there will be consequences", and within 24 hours their army mows down 70 people. Maybe next time he should wear his Presidential bicycle safety helmet when making stupid meaningless threats.

But they don't have WMD like... nevermind.

Alert World Police.

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:59 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama warns Ukraine that "there will be consequences", and within 24 hours their army mows down 70 people. Maybe next time he should wear his Presidential bicycle safety helmet when making stupid meaningless threats.

But they don't have WMD like... nevermind.

Alert World Police.


Who needs WMDs when you have ravines like Babi Yar handy just outside of town.

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Friday, February 21, 2014 8:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama warns Ukraine that "there will be consequences", and within 24 hours their army mows down 70 people. Maybe next time he should wear his Presidential bicycle safety helmet when making stupid meaningless threats.

But they don't have WMD like... nevermind.

Alert World Police.







*vid didn't work , so plan b.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, February 21, 2014 9:46 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
DECONSTRUCTION

Quote:

The conflict over Ukraine's future escalated on Thursday into the bloodiest day of violence since protests began, as the opposition routed thousands of riot police to regain control of central Kiev amid signs that the power base of embattled president Viktor Yanukovych was under threat.
Is it?



Could be.

Quote:

The mayor of Kiev, Volodymyr Makeyenko, a Yanukovych appointment, announced he was quitting the president's political party. "The events happening in the Ukrainian capital are a tragedy. I have decided to resign from the Party of the Regions." Ten Yanukovych MPs broke ranks and demanded mediation in the spiralling conflict by the EU and the US.



If a few more Party of the Regions MPs break ranks, Yanukovych is in danger of losing his majority, which consists of his party, some independents, and the Communists.

Hmm. Communists. Now I understand why you're so interested in defending Yanukovych.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/photos/ukrainian-parliament-photo-222931714.h
tml



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, February 21, 2014 12:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Hmm. Communists. Now I understand why you're so interested in defending Yanukovych.
This is like you accusing me of defending the ACA when I was simply reacting to the misrepresentations of the CBO report.

I don't know what's going on in the Ukraine, exactly. Neither do you. And neither will ANYBODY who reads this article, which is sheer propaganda.

And that's what I'm trying to do- inoculate people against propaganda.

Yanno, we've invaded or interfered with a lot of nations on floods of propaganda, most of which turned out to be hogwash in retrospect.

Some lucid thinking would have come in handy before the invasion and occupation of Iraq, before the invasion of Libya, and before interfering in Syria. Not that I'd be defending Saddam, Qaddafi, and Assad, but they would have been better than the clusterfucks that we created ... the broken nations which became hotbeds of sectarian violence and breeding grounds for al Qaida.

Same thing with the Ukraine.

Is Yanukovych corrupt? I dunno... I've yet to see any specific accusations. But assuming that he is, we should be focusing (if anything) on fixing the corruption, not - literally- overturning an elected government, inciting violence, and breaking Ukraine into pieces. There are real people on the ground there... people who support Yanukovych, and people who support others. The nation has a democratic process in place. We should let that democratic process play out.


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Friday, February 21, 2014 1:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, we've invaded or interfered with a lot of nations on floods of propaganda, most of which turned out to be hogwash in retrospect.

Some lucid thinking would have come in handy before the invasion and occupation of Iraq, before the invasion of Libya, and before interfering in Syria. Not that I'd be defending Saddam, Qaddafi, and Assad, but they would have been better than the clusterfucks that we created


Amen, there's a merit to leaving well the hell alone.

That said, there's a leaked recording floating around indicating possible US involvement in or preparation for, a coup attempt, so there's that as well.

-F

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Preparation hell, it's practically a smoking gunner.

This is Victoria Nuland, of the State Department, and Geoffrey Pyatt, the U.S Ambassador to Ukraine.

And they're pretty goddamn blatantly setting up a fucking coup.



Just so we all know who's hands this blood is on, here.

-Frem

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I realize that I don't always keep up with the news ... but ... did the end of that recording mention BIDEN? And if it did ... last time I read about this (Wash Post) - they were all a-twitter about the 'f' word - as in 'fuck the EU' - but nowhere did I read mention of Biden's name.

And much thanks for the recording, Frem. The news stories didn't do it enough damning justice enough.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2022 8:29 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Ukraine war: Russia hits out as Pope labels minority ethnic soldiers 'cruel'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63789475

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