REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama’s Foreign Policy Failures Are Proving His Critics Right ( Not FOX News )

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, May 2, 2014 22:08
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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Watch Obama hand Ed Harris his ass. Ed starts with the braindead talking points, then gets a lesson in common sense. Go to 30:45




I'm sorry, Ed WHO ? Harris ? The actor ?

Or was that Ed HENRY ?

Ed brings up good points. ( brain dead talking points ? ) First, he asks the Malaysian President about reporter deaths ( 26 ). Then he asks Obama about the high rate of deaths of our military vets who died while waiting for healthcare. Finally, he asks Obama to reply to critics of his foreign policy, of which there are many.

Barry thinks failure to use military force is the prime area where he's being criticized. It isn't.

Syria - HE made the 'line in the sand ' comment, and then pussied out, doing nothing. Don't make threats you can't or won't back up.

He actually thinks Syria is getting rid of its *chemical weapons, when chemical attacks STILL continue !!!

He thinks Russia actually gives a damn that its isolated.

Obama makes false claims of what his critics are saying, because he doesn't LISTEN to anyone else. Barry thinks HE is more knowledgeable than the experts, in ANY field.

He believes his own BS, and is impervious to reality.

The dude is a straight up egomaniac and delusional. Everything is coming up roses in Barry's world ( his own mind , at least )

* Chlorine attacks sink Syria's credibility on chemical weapons deal (+video)



By Nicholas Blanford, Correspondent
April 28, 2014

President Assad is accused of gassing rebel areas, despite joining a chemical weapons convention last year. Syria has missed its latest deadline for removing its chemical weapons.


Trust that the Syrian regime is committed to banning the use of chemical weapons is withering amid allegations that it gassed rebel areas with industrial chlorine

On top of that, Syria missed a self-imposed deadline to remove the last of its chemical weapons from the country Sunday, and questions are also being raised about the accuracy of the regime's declared inventory of lethal chemical agents. The delays and lingering uncertainty place additional pressure on Syria to meet a June 30 deadline for destroying all of its chemical weapons facilities and equipment.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2014/0428/Chlorine-attacks-
sink-Syria-s-credibility-on-chemical-weapons-deal-video





Hell, before he threatened if ANY chemical weapons were used, that would be crossing on his imaginary red line! NOW it seems that, hey, as long as Chem Weapons are used up by the deadline, it's all working just fine! Problem solved !

Whether they're shipped out,...to where ? Russia ( Yeah, that's a fun mix ) or used on civilians, Obama will take credit for getting rid of all the chemical weapons!


* ETA -

2 quick points.

Obama said that he wasn't going after Putin PERSONALLY, but instead just wanted to do things which will ( he hopes ) change Putin's calculus. And he does this how ? By going after Putin - PERSONALLY. Good grief. Does Obama even hear himself when he speaks ?

Also, use of military force " as a last resort " . Really? Like in Lybia ? Or w/ all those drone strikes ?

Is Obama INTENTIONALLY trying to destroy US credibility , or is he just that frelling stupid ? ( And spare us all of the " But BUSH... " crap. ) This has ZERO to do with BUSH, but entirely on what OBAMA has said and done.

Deal w/ THAT.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:26 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Sig, ya left out the part where Iraq was keeping Iran fully occupied and contained without any action on the part of the USA. Then we removed Saddam, and discovered that WE had to worry about Iran.
Why did we have to "worry about" Iran??? As far as I can tell, they're over there, and we're over here.

You see, I think this is part of the Great American Hubris... thinking that we "have to" somehow interfere with every single nation in the world.

And Obama's continuing that policy.



Hey, I'm mostly on your side here.

As to worrying about Iran: whether we have to or not, politicians (mostly Right-Wingers) and media folks DO keep doing it, and talking about it. We WERE better off when Saddam was doing it for us without being asked. And I agree, it WAS HIS problem, not ours, him being right next door there. But it had the residual benefit (not sure that's the exact word I want) that WE DIDN'T have to do it. at all.

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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:50 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Deal w/ THAT.

Dude, you just spent a LOT of time typing junk not worth responding to.
My advice: keep your nonsense short for YOUR sake.

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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Deal w/ THAT.

Dude, you just spent a LOT of time typing junk not worth responding to.
My advice: keep your nonsense short for YOUR sake.



You have every right to your view.

( See how I'm NOT calling you names or impugning your intelligence ? )

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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:52 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Deal w/ THAT.

Dude, you just spent a LOT of time typing junk not worth responding to.



You just summarized his complete works.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:59 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
( See how I'm NOT calling you names or impugning your intelligence ? )

All I see is a bitty little stupid punk tryin' to sound all fanciful.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 12:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


REAVERFAN...

I listened to the video of Obama handing Ed Henry his ass, and serious corrections are due. I think there is a GREAT misunderstanding about Obama's true foreign policy, by both the liberals and by the right wing, and also a huge tendency of both to confuse what Obama SAYS with what he DOES.

The difference between GWB and Obama is that Obama doesn't believe in big, loud, fancy invasions, with missiles and bombs and tanks and aircraft carriers like GWB did. No, Obama believes in destabilizing nations quietly, with USAID (After all, what's not to like about aid, right? They even mentioned it in the speech in the Philippines.), drones, special ops, proxies like al Qaida and Pravy Sektor, intel, loans, and massive relentless propaganda.

So, to address Syria specifically, as Obama did inthe video, the chemical attacks that were assertively placed at Assad's feet- over and over and over by both Obama AND the State Department- is beginning to look more and more like a false flag operation by Turkey.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/7/sy_hersh_reveals_potential_turkis
h_role



If you look at what Obama is doing .... as opposed to just listening what he is saying... you will see that Obama has actually destroyed just as many nations (Sudan, Libya) as GWB (Afghanistan, Iraq) and not only that, has attempted to do the same in three more (Syria, Ukraine, and Venezuela).

Overall, Obama is following the same path as GWB, but even more aggressively. At the same time as he is trying to militarily encircle ("contain") Russia by emplacing missiles in eastern Ukraine (and BTW risking WWIII) he is trying to do the same thing with China, which is the point of his "Asia Pivot" despite all of the fancy words!

He is also relentlessly pushing yet more free trade agreements... TPP (Pacific) and TTIP (Altlantic), agreements which will quite literally destroy national sovereignty and local control by making all national signatories subject to direct lawsuit by transnationals, to be ajudicated only against the terms of the agreement in an international trade tribunal. One of those terms prohibits the "taking of expected profits"... by environmental laws, for example. Environmental, worker safety, consumer protection laws are ALL subsumed under these trade agreements.

Obama is not any less of a neocon, nor any less of a tool of the transnationals, than George W Bush. (And for all of you Hillary fans out there, neither is she. And neither is Kerry.)

And so, for your listening pleasure..


Obama proposing indefinite preventive detention
(He did this more than once, I haven't bothered to find the origianl but here is another)



Obama saying NSA spying is "legal"



Obama denying that the USA was spying on Merkel's cellphone



Jen Psaki, State Department whore, lying her ass off over the sniper shooting at Simferopol, blaming Russians




Jen, lying again about the photos supposedly showing Russians in Ukraine (later withdrawn)



Kerry, blaming anti-Semite leaflets on pro-Russians (ie lying)



Just because rightwingers are crazy bags of rocks doesn't mean that Obama is any better. He talks more smoothly, he hides what he does better, but he is just as dangerous as GWB ever was.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 12:21 PM

CHRISISALL


Signy, do you think Obama MEANS to be evil, or is he, like GWB before him IMO, simply a well-meaning tool unable to see how badly he's being manipulated?

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Friday, May 2, 2014 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Unlike GWB, Obama is too smart not to know what he's doing. After all, he's the one sitting with the "kill list" in the WH. He's simply made it his priority to fit in with TPTB rather than fight for us plebes.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 12:34 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Unlike GWB, Obama is too smart not to know what he's doing.

I guess I'm asking for a judgement here... do YOU think OBAMA thinks he's trying to leave a better world for his kids to grow up in, or is he simply conducting himself along his perceived 'rules of the fucked-up jungle' that his kids will have to take their chances in just like everybody else?

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Friday, May 2, 2014 12:48 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Unlike GWB, Obama is too smart not to know what he's doing.

I guess I'm asking for a judgement here... do YOU think OBAMA thinks he's trying to leave a better world for his kids to grow up in, or is he simply conducting himself along his perceived 'rules of the fucked-up jungle' that his kids will have to take their chances in just like everybody else?



If the person next door to you wants to kill you, or if a country is destabilizing a region of the world and it is going to hurt your country or it's citizens,it is the same thing in general. You can look the other way till it catches up to you or you can do something about it. Anyone who thinks people killing people is a good thing is nuts, but to stand there and let someone harm you is insane.

I always love to watch as some criticize those who make the tough decisions from the safety of their living rooms. It is very easy to always take the high ground but you better hope the police and military are there to protect you. In many countries they are not.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 1:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


He is "optimizing his returns". What he tells himself about WHY he's doing it is irrelevant.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 1:39 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:

I always love to watch as some criticize those who make the tough decisions from the safety of their living rooms.

My question to Signy is a sincere one, as it seems to me that Obama wants the best for this country, but some of his chosen methods on the surface seem rather reprehensible (Rappy would agree to this no doubt). Yet why would he choose to be a 'bad guy' unless he felt it was a necessary evil to protect the greater good-? GWB is easy, he let others do his thinking for him, but as Signy said, Obama can't claim that to any where near the same degree.
Yeah, we can't 'know' everything that goes on behind the curtain, but the results are certainly out there to examine, and that tells me something's rotten in Denmark. I'm just wondering whether it's a rotten, hopelessly entrenched self-destructive trait of Human Society, or a rotten particular Puppet Theatre...

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Friday, May 2, 2014 1:41 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He is "optimizing his returns".

As in makin' lemons into a lemonaid-like substance?

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Friday, May 2, 2014 1:52 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He is "optimizing his returns". What he tells himself about WHY he's doing it is irrelevant.



Why he believes he must do what he thinks needs doing has everything to do with it. Most Americans agree for the most part, just some want him to do more. If you want an example try the Ukraine. Ask them if turning the other cheek would work for them in dealing with Russia. Forget about history, all one need do is look at what is happening around the world to know it is a harsh environment. Those who wish to think the use of force is wrong no matter what the provocation are part of the problem. They are always placing blame on those who would rather live in peace for responding when needed. If you think the president likes dropping bombs on people you are a fool. If you choose to give those who strive for power through the destruction of others a free ride go for it. Just know you are never in the majority and will never have the influence you desire. There are far to many sane people to vote you down.

That said I am not a fan of either party, but I understand there is nothing to gain for me or the country in joining with the Republicans.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 3:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Actually, yes, I think Obama does love dropping bombs on people. I think he gets off on the power. Isn't he the one who said "I'm rather good at killing people"?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/03/obama-drones-double-down_n_42
08815.htm


AFA what's happening in Ukraine, you have not a clue. The USA, the EU, and the IMF are about to bleed the Ukraine dry, if they can, and force it to fight Russia. I'll post another thread some time later today, and link it here because I think you've been hopelessly brainwashed. And you get off on the notion that you're "exceptional" and that everybody in the world is evil except you.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 4:18 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Actually, yes, I think Obama does love dropping bombs on people. I think he gets off on the power. Isn't he the one who said "I'm rather good at killing people"?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/03/obama-drones-double-down_n_42
08815.htm


AFA what's happening in Ukraine, you have not a clue. The USA, the EU, and the IMF are about to bleed the Ukraine dry, if they can, and force it to fight Russia. I'll post another thread some time later today, and link it here because I think you've been hopelessly brainwashed. And you get off on the notion that you're "exceptional" and that everybody in the world is evil except you.



Dude read your own posts. You are the one that comes off as a complete cynic. So much so your post is funny. I bet anarchist applies to you. If you check your posts you will not see it, you can't but many others will, it is you who thinks they are exceptional and everyone in the world is evil. Look what you just said about this country, all of Europe, and the IMF. At the same time suggesting you have the real truth. I think you may be a little off kilter as is RURAPTOR.

The posts of yours I have read to date make you appear to be a very angry guy. Russia invades the Ukraine and you attack the United States and the EU. Wow.

It just occured to me to ask, where are you from.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 4:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MIKER

Of course I'm angry. I should be, and so should you. And I'm not a cynic, I'm a realist. If you read my posts, you'll see that I have them fully linked to provable events.

BTW- Just to give you an example of how off-kilter your world view is, you may be thinking that the "whole world" is on "our" side, joining us in a holy chorus of condemnation of the Russians. After all, that's what the American press has told us over and over. But the reality is that more than half of the world abstained or voted no in the UN, including the B(R)ICS... that means... China, Brazil, and India... in addition to scores of other nations. (Don't believe me? Look it up.) They don't think that the USA is a superhero. Unlike you, they've had painful experience with the IMF and its loans and they know what "austerity" is all about. So you might want to adjust your notion of exactly how many people you think are on "our" side, and what they really think of us.

Oh, and one more thing: It's ostriches like you who were totally surprised by 9-11. WHAT???? People hate us??? Yep. And not only that, there was nothing between us and the USS Cole and the Kenyan embassy bombings except 3000 miles of water. 9-11 was just a matter of time. I guess you would have counted it too "cynical" to even mention such things.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 5:00 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Of course I'm angry. I should be, and so should you. And I'm not a cynic, I'm a realist. If you read my posts, you'll see that I have them fully linked to provable events.

BTW- Just to give you an example of how off-kilter your world view is, you may be thinking that the "whole world" is on "our" side, joining us in a holy chorus of condemnation of the Russians. The reality is that more than half of the world abstained or voted no in the UN, including the B(R)ICS... that means... China, Brazil, and India... in addition to scores of other nations. (Don't believe me? Look it up.) They don't think that the USA is a superhero. Unlike you, they've had painful experience with the IMF and its loans directly and they know what "austerity" is all about. So you might want to adjust your notion of exactly how many people you think are on "our" side.



I don't think the whole world loves us. I do think many are jealous and resentful. I know Merkel was born on the wrong side of the wall in Germany and if it wasn't for the deep need for Russian oil she would be leading the charge.

Yes people and countries always do the wrong things, but understanding why helps navigate through all the bull. Take the Chinese, they know North Korea is a mess and needs cleaning up. They just do not want to step up to the plate. Understanding why this is so helps one make an informed opinion about how to judge them on the issue.

I would point out that much of the worlds population is fed a lot of misinformation about us. I know you think this about are news outlets. Just imagine what they are hearing at times about us. Knowing this helps make an informed judgment as to if it is all our fault.

There is a lot wrong with this country and all countries but it would be good to remember we are on a journey to improve and time and patience is need to get there. Yes, be vigilant but being cynical about it all doesn't cut it.

If memory serves me, the pyramid on the back of the dollar is incomplete. That is to remind us we are not finished building this country and we must always strive to improve.




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Friday, May 2, 2014 5:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I would point out that much of the worlds population is feed a lot of misinformation about us.
And more than most, we're fed misinformation about us. I promised a post about the Ukraine, and I'll get to it later today. And as usual, it will be filled with links to provable events. You really need to learn history.

Quote:

Just imagine what they are hearing at times about us.
I don't have to. I go to their English language news outlets and read it for myself. I and my hubby also work with foreign nationals from many nations, and are in contact with journalists the world over. I guess that makes me a cynic.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 5:12 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And you get off on the notion that you're "exceptional" and that everybody in the world is evil except you.



You seem to be getting awfully comfortable telling others how they think and feel...




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 2, 2014 5:23 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I would point out that much of the worlds population is feed a lot of misinformation about us.
And more than most, we're fed misinformation about us. I promised a post about the Ukraine, and I'll get to it later today. And as usual, it will be filled with links to provable events. You really need to learn history.

Quote:

Just imagine what they are hearing at times about us.
I don't have to. I go to their English language news outlets and read it for myself. I and my hubby also work with foreign nationals from many nations, and are in contact with journalists the world over. I guess that makes me a cynic.



No, I think that comes naturally to you, being incapable of understanding the nature of things. Speaking of learning history, I just completed a History course at the university I am attending. Also, I am 59 years of age and have watched much take place.

I would remind you we are only 100 years past the days of the horse and buggy. If you understood anything about human nature you would be happy for the changes and great strides we have made in a century while advocating for more, not just bitching about everything.

I think you are up there on your high horse to stay. Must be nice to be so self righteous. Nice but delusional. I have met many so called Americans who do nothing but bash Americans. I noticed you did not answer my question as to where you are from.


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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


CHRIS...

Quote:

My question to Signy is a sincere one, as it seems to me that Obama wants the best for this country, but some of his chosen methods on the surface seem rather reprehensible

Chris, you should NEVER use the terms "us", "our country", "people", "the people", "Americans", or "the United States" and think that it represents a homogenous group of people with identical interests. Every time a policy choice is made, you should always ask "For whom?" because I guarantee you that there are damn few looking out for "the greater good" in the halls of power. Here's an example... when you said As in makin' lemons into a lemonaid-like substance? what should spring to mind is For whom?

So, I hope you have patience for the rest of the answer, because I try to be very clear but I haven't really thought this out fully so it may be muddled.

What are YOUR interests in Ukraine? Not "the nation's" or "the United States'", but YOURS. What were YOUR interests in Libya? in Iraq? In Sudan? What did YOU get out of it, if anything? Was this done for you, or for someone else?

To start, I really think that Obama, Bush, Clinton, and so on, really did have foreign policy objectives, and they're not as senseless and chaotic as on first blush. The United States, as currently constituted, does have three major global interests that can explain most of the seemingly inexplicable actions taken over the past 30+ years.

The first is our need for CHEAP ENERGY. That has kept us tied to the Saudis specifcially and the mideast in general, and to oil and gas companies everywhere.

The second is the PETRODOLLAR as the world reserve currency (established 1971 by Nixon). The petrodollar is the phenomenon that keeps us able to buy shit from all over the world, even as our manufacturing and productive capacity has been hollowed out. There is nothing backing our dollars except MORE dollars.

The third is the necessity of installing FINACIALISM everywhere, and quashing any competing system. Financialism always needs new markets and fresh blood; it can never survive in a closed system.

At this juncture, the USA seems to have gotten itself into a deep bind. All of the processes which were lightly sketched and easily reversible 40 years ago have become deeply entrenched and significant - even existential- problems. We have not reduced our dependence on cheap energy, although we passed peak oil a decade or more ago*. "Our"... by that I mean within the physical boundaries of the USA... manufacturing capacity has been completely hollowed out, and if climate shift has its way with us our farming output will also fall. "Financialism" is our new product, and accordingly 97% of the "wealth" out there is in the form of DEBT. All we have left is dollars... lots and lots and lots of Treasuries, dollars, and dollar-denominated IMF loans everywhere in the world. And because everyone is holding some, nobody wants to see their value fall, to be the first to say something about that butt-naked emperor.

There are a few nations (China, Russia, Venzuela, Saudi Arabia) which might induce the fall of the petrodollar, a minimum of two which could do this in concert and not lose much (Russia and Iran), two which have stated they will do so (Russia, China), and one which could do this independently and not lose a whole lot- Russia.

If you were to look at all of our recent wars/ destabilizations, almost every one had to do with an energy-producing nation which was about to accept non-dollar payment. Iraq, Iran (embargoed, not invaded), and Libya. The last holdouts are Russia, China, Iran (involuntarily), and Venzuela. Not surprisingly, they are all targets of US aggression. The only explanation of Ukraine that makes sense is the emplacement of nuclear missiles in eastern Ukraine which would be within reach of Moscow. Unfortunately, it risks WWIII.

Now, all of "our" troubles could be solved and not approach WWIII or have to engage in a series of endless aggressions in other nations. Our manufacturing could be revitalized by investment, our currency could be stablized by eliminating the fractional reserve, and we could significantly reduce our dependence on energy- foreign or otherwise. But there is one small problem with that idea: It would require that the rich give up their money.

And that's where "their" interests and "our" interests part ways. THEY would rather have our military bootprint all over the world... paid for by our taxes and manned by our children ... and risk WWIII, than give up any of their money.

*Oh, and BTW- fracking is a pipe dream. I don't want to be so cavalierly dismissive, but I've dug into geophysical trends of the longstanding Texas "plays", and economic analyses which indicate that fracking will bust as soon as interest rates rise. If you're interested, I'll find and post a link to those reports.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


STORY, MIKER, and CHRIS- please read the above post. That is my answer to your comments.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:14 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
STORY, MIKER, and CHRIS- please read the above post. That is my answer to your comments.



Hey, you preach to us like we don't understand what the world is like. Follow this link or even just read it. Many besides yourself know what is out there, and yes even in our own back yard. The problem I have is that you only find fault and think you are the only one who understands. This link will bring you to an article by Forbes Magazine. You can from there if you like go to the researchers original site. This one link puts a lot of things into focus.

Stop thinking you are the only one who is aware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people
-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest
/

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

If you think the president likes dropping bombs on people you are a fool.- MIKER
You seem to be getting awfully comfortable telling others how they think and feel...- STORY




Quote:

This one link puts a lot of things into focus. Stop thinking you are the only one who is aware.-MIKER
I'm aware of this fact. Do you have any specific responses to my post?

Yanno what? I'm sorry if I come off as a know-it-all, but... I DO talk about this in depth with a large number of very astute people, and I tend to go pretty far afield for my information. This isn't MY opinion or MY information that you're getting, this is the result of combined discussion over many months. I work at getting this information, so you may as well take advantage of it.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:21 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

If you think the president likes dropping bombs on people you are a fool.- MIKER

You seem to be getting awfully comfortable telling others how they think and feel...- STORY



And what about MikeR? Doesn't anyone want to just talk about the issues instead of getting all personal? Apparently not!



I can do that. I just don't like extreme views. It is extreme points of view that create all the turmoil. Discussion is always better than insinuating. I apparently struck a nerve. It is not my intention to hurt.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It isn't an "extreme view" to try to see and understand what's REALLY going on. Sometimes the reality is difficult and the discussion is uncomfortable. But understanding reality is never extreme. So, do you have any specific responses to my post? It represents the combined analyses of about a dozen people, all of whom are perceptive and who work in fields which bring them into contact with people across the globe. In my case, for example, my understanding of Syria was broken when I talked to a Syrian Xtian that I worked with, and found that his family in Syria was terrified of whoever might come after Assad. That Assad, being a minority, was actually rather protective of minorities in general (Xtians, Jews, Alawites, Druze). Such insights don't come every day.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:34 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

If you think the president likes dropping bombs on people you are a fool.- MIKER
You seem to be getting awfully comfortable telling others how they think and feel...- STORY




Quote:

This one link puts a lot of things into focus. Stop thinking you are the only one who is aware.-MIKER
I'm aware of this fact. Do you have any specific responses to my post?

Yanno what? I'm sorry if I come off as a know-it-all, but... I DO talk about this in depth with a large number of very astute people, and I tend to go pretty far afield for my information. This isn't MY opinion or MY information that you're getting, this is the result of combined discussion over many months. I work at getting this information, so you may as well take advantage of it.



It is hard to go that far afield and not cast aspersions on good people stuck with very few options. People in very high positions know what is what and can do little of what we wish. They can't even come close. We have to realize the limitations on what the good, or the better leaders of today can achieve while being supportive of them as they try.

I can tell you are caught up in and trying to be a leader in pushing for a better future. I love that, but reality is reality. If we get there it will be many years down the road.


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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And that's where "their" interests and "our" interests part ways. THEY would rather have our military bootprint all over the world... paid for by our taxes and manned by our children ... and risk WWIII, than give up any of their money.


Unfortunately, you spell this out very well. I try to see things from a centrist perspective, and from that perspective I don't disagree on any particular point, 'sir'.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 6:48 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It isn't an "extreme view" to try to see and understand what's REALLY going on. Sometimes the reality is difficult and the discussion is uncomfortable. But understanding reality is never extreme. So, do you have any specific responses to my post? It represents the combined analyses of about a dozen people, all of whom are perceptive and who work in fields which bring them into contact with people across the globe. In my case, for example, my understanding of Syria was broken when I talked to a Syrian Xtian that I worked with, and found that his family in Syria was terrified of whoever might come after Assad. That Assad, being a minority, was actually rather protective of minorities in general (Xtians, Jews, Alawites, Druze). Such insights don't come every day.



Individual stories tell and individual perspective. I just had to read a story about the Alawites and watch a video. I wish I still had my syllabus but I think it was for my Anthropology class. You talk about knowing reporters. My cousin is Robert Rivard. He was chief foreign correspondent for News Week when he was in El Salvador in the early 70's. He wrote the book Trail of Feathers. If you want to talk about foreign affairs let's talk Zbigniew Brezinski not someone's horror story which is sad but limited in scope.

Like I said, I love what you stand for in wanting a better world but I think your arguments are limited in the sense of what can be done in a given moment or to point out the worst of things and not that some like the president are trying to do things within the constraints of what their power will allow for.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people
-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest
/

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Friday, May 2, 2014 7:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MIKER What I'm trying to say is that Obama is no longer the "lesser" of two evils. Bit of history: I voted for Clinton in 1992, despite Ross Perot's warning about NAFTA and the "giant sucking sound". Four years later, after seeing the damage that he did, I voted third party. But we can look back to Bill Clinton's terms as the beginnings of so much of the damage that was done to our economy- NAFTA, the Commodities Modernization Act, DMCA, the "reform" of welfare, entry of China into the WTO, and the repeal of Glass Steagal. Every single harm that we are CURRENTLY experiencing traces directly back to what Clinton did then.

After the Haitian earthquake, when Clinton was surveying the physical damage from the earthquake and the economic wipeout that Haitian farmers experienced from being swapmed with cheap subsidized Arkansas rice, he said that he thought that NAFTA was the most evil thing he'd ever done. Well, right now it would be hard to pick what the WORST thing was. I voted for Obama too. But after seeing how poorly he represented my interests (Including the clusterfuck he made of healthcare) I voted third party the second time around.

Every time I voted Democrat, I've been made to regret it. I've decided to vote third party. THAT can be done from now on.

Quote:

Individual stories tell and individual perspective.
Yes, but I followed it up with investigating planeloads of arms smuggled from Libya via Turkey, paid for by Qatar and Saudi Arabia, supporting al Qaida in Syria.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 7:41 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MIKER What I'm trying to say is that Obama is no longer the "lesser" of two evils. Bit of history: I voted for Clinton in 1992, despite Ross Perot's warning about NAFTA and the "giant sucking sound". Four years later, after seeing the damage that he did, I voted third party. But we can look back to Bill Clinton's terms as the beginnings of so much of the damage that was done to our economy- NAFTA, the Commodities Modernization Act, DMCA, the "reform" of welfare, entry of China into the WTO, and the repeal of Glass Steagal. Every single harm that we are CURRENTLY experiencing traces directly back to what Clinton did then.

After the Haitian earthquake, when Clinton was surveying the physical damage from the earthquake and the economic wipeout that Haitian farmers experienced from being swapmed with cheap subsidized Arkansas rice, he said that he thought that NAFTA was the most evil thing he'd ever done. Well, right now it would be hard to pick what the WORST thing was. I voted for Obama too. But after seeing how poorly he represented my interests (Including the clusterfuck he made of healthcare) I voted third party the second time around.

Every time I voted Democrat, I've been made to regret it. I've decided to vote third party. THAT can be done from now on.



Let me be very clear. Not only do I not disagree with you, I could add to the list of crap I didn't like about Clintons leadership. I could also tell you things about the first Bush president I liked, and that is my point.

When people start to discuss what is going on in Syria I expect to hear complaints about the way the President is doing his job. I just won't sit back and watch as his character is destroyed by an ignorant few. Or, listen to someone rant as to how it is this country's fault.

I see an awful lot of people who want to cut and past things printed by others to appear smarter than they are while turning a conversation about what to do in Syria for example into a history lesson.

I also see there are a lot of very smart people who address issues at this site. I believe you are one of them. I just don't like to see this country attacked at every juncture.

Look, fact. The first thing we had to do to fix health care in this country is kick the door in. Presidents have been trying for at least 80 years to do that. As of today 8 million have signed up. Medicare and Social Security started out the same way. They both had major problems. Did Obama drop the ball with the roll out? He sure the hell did but we will fix it as we go.
Remember, rather than be helpful during this process the Republicans voted to repeal it over 50 times. They did this knowing there was no way that was going to happen. Also knowing, they were helping to screw up peoples lives by not pitching in to help after it became law.

P.S. Voting third party just helps to put another Republican into office.
If one comes along that stands a chance and is on the right side of the issues, you can bet he or she gets my vote.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 7:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If a third party gets 5% of a vote, it will sway the stance of the other candidates because the two established parties now have to court those voters.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 7:58 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If a third party gets 5% of a vote, it will sway the stance of the other candidates because the two established parties now have to court those voters.



That also works for candidates in a primary or for union leaders or for advocates for minorities. Independents steel votes form those closet to their views. that is why Libertarians run as republicans.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 8:06 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Remember when you say the Cole was three thousand miles away from home when radical Muslims bombed it as though it was Americas fault, you should also mention that Americans were three thousand miles from home when they were saving all those Muslims from genocide in Sarajevo.

And that is the problem I have with your arguments. They are one sided and in many cases ignore the sins of the aggressor.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 8:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
STORY, MIKER, and CHRIS- please read the above post. That is my answer to your comments.



Hey, you preach to us like we don't understand what the world is like. Follow this link or even just read it. Many besides yourself know what is out there, and yes even in our own back yard. The problem I have is that you only find fault and think you are the only one who understands. This link will bring you to an article by Forbes Magazine. You can from there if you like go to the researchers original site. This one link puts a lot of things into focus.

Stop thinking you are the only one who is aware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people
-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest
/




Just a sidebar here, but that's pretty much what I see happen here , when ever someone doesn't agree w/ another person's point of view. Belittle them, claim they don't understand, or have reading comprehension issues... Hardly ever does it occur to the other person that they just might see things differently.


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Friday, May 2, 2014 8:17 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hardly ever does it occur to the other person that they just might see things differently.


You never do. That's true.
But, whatever. Most peeps here think Obama is Jesus 1.2.
How can you even stand to be here with us heathens?

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Friday, May 2, 2014 8:21 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
STORY, MIKER, and CHRIS- please read the above post. That is my answer to your comments.



Hey, you preach to us like we don't understand what the world is like. Follow this link or even just read it. Many besides yourself know what is out there, and yes even in our own back yard. The problem I have is that you only find fault and think you are the only one who understands. This link will bring you to an article by Forbes Magazine. You can from there if you like go to the researchers original site. This one link puts a lot of things into focus.



Stop thinking you are the only one who is aware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people
-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest
/




Just a sidebar here, but that's pretty much what I see happen here , when ever someone doesn't agree w/ another person's point of view. Belittle them, claim they don't understand, or have reading comprehension issues... Hardly ever does it occur to the other person that they just might see things differently.




Yes sir, there is a lot of that but much is in the confines of not bashing the country or wrongfully siding with other countries. If you are right you are right but you better be right. As for you I am guilty of that myself. I have fallen into the trap of liking poking you in the eye. I have read many a comment that suggests that is how to debate with you. I don't disrespect you yet I find myself in disagreement with much of what you say. I do respect your right to say it. I hafta add I hold no animosity towards you.

Dude watch Heaven Knows Mr. Allison.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 9:39 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Dude watch Heaven Knows Mr. Allison.

TCM shows that movie all the time. I'm a big Deborah Kerr fan, and I like Mitchum as well. It is a great movie, but for many of today's 5-minute attention span I-phone zombies it would probably seem boring.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 9:39 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Another great movie they both starred in together was The Sundowners.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 9:48 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Another great movie they both starred in together was The Sundowners.



I'm betting I have seen the Sundowners but won't recall it until I see it again. I agree with you on young peoples attention spans but I don't think that will be the case with RURAPTOR.

I thought it was also Kerr with Charlton Heston in Naked Jungle but I was wrong. That is a really good movie.

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Friday, May 2, 2014 9:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

How can you even stand to be here with us heathens?



There's the Badger answer

" I'm above you, better than! ",

which I'm sure you'd think is how I'd reply.

Actually, I prefer the Book answer...

" Maybe bring the word to them as need it told. "

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Friday, May 2, 2014 10:08 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
" Maybe bring the word to them as need it told. "

Thought so.
Book lite.

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