REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

IMF to Kiev - fight for eastern Ukraine or die

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2023 17:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 15770
PAGE 2 of 5

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:18 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Nazis? You are ignoring the complete history of the Svobada party. You also forget that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from power. It was the Parliament who also put Olexander Turchynov in place as the interim president.

The opposition did not what to wait for early elections because that would have given Yanukovych to take Russian money and basically ensure some ties to Moscow in the future.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



I thought I would see if anyone else would take up the charge. I see you and KPO have things well in hand. Hey we win? Ha Ha.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:22 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

It was the Parliament who also put Olexander Turchynov in place as the interim president.
It was a Parliament which was missing the 35% of its representatives from the south and east who fled because they felt unsafe. Yep, democracy. Ain't it grand???



So Parliament was just not to do anything? Did missing those members mean they did not have enough members, by their parliamentary rules, to remove the President?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52- It means they do not represent the people... are missing a significant group. Any selection as a result is likely to be unacceptable to a significant minority. Apparently this bothered the appointed government not a whit, which leads me to wonder what they're doing and who they think they're representing.

MIKER- If you really think that completely burying your head in the sand... or someplace else less pleasant ... is "winning", then you've "won". I hope you enjoy the view, and the smell.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:32 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52- It means they do not represent the people... are missing a significant group. Any selection as a result is likely to be unacceptable to a significant minority. Apparently this bothered the appointed government not a whit, which leads me to wonder what they're doing and who they think they're representing.



That is a nice appeal, but it does not answer my questions. Do you think Parliament should have done nothing? Did they have enough representatives to take the actions they did legally?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:33 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52- It means they do not represent the people... are missing a significant group. Any selection as a result is likely to be unacceptable to a significant minority. Apparently this bothered the appointed government not a whit, which leads me to wonder what they're doing and who they think they're representing.

MIKER- If you really think that completely burying your head in the sand... or someplace else less pleasant ... is "winning", then you've "won". I hope you enjoy the view, and the smell.



With your head so far up your ass how is possible you can read my posts?

And yes it smells like victory to me. You two keep getting smacked down no matter who it is you are dealing with.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


They did not have the authority to select a new President, according to Ukrainian law.

What they SHOULD have done is keep Yanukovich as a placeholder, and hold early elections AS AGREED TO ALREADY. But the new government was rushing to ink a deal with the EU and the IMF, it was uncertain what elections would result in, so legality and representation be hanged.

------------------

How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:38 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They did not have the authority to select a new President, according to Ukrainian law.

What they SHOULD have done is keep Yanukovich as a placeholder, and hold early elections AS AGREED TO ALREADY. But the new government was rushing to ink a deal with the EU and the IMF, it was uncertain what elections would result in, so legality and representation be hanged.

------------------

How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?



I can't help myself. Just who the hell do you think you are to tell the people of the Ukraine what to do? Your love of self is off the charts.

Are you that familiar with Ukrainian law? Are you even a lawyer? Or is it the god syndrome?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's not ME telling Ukrainians what to do, it's their Constitution.(It was discussed at the time, you just didn't notice.) And right now, it's YOU telling them what to do: Ignore the wishes of the people! Kill them!

Oh, and BTW- please answer the following questions.

Did you believe that Saddam had WMD?
Did you think that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
Were you were surprised by 9-11?
Did you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Were you convinced that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?

Have you been duped your entire life?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:46 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's not ME telling Ukrainians what to do, it's their Constitution. And right now, it's YOU telling them what to do: Ignore the wishes of the people! Kill them!

Oh, and BTW- please answer the following questions.

How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?



What constitution are you talking about? Ours or theirs? If it is theirs please show me where in their constitution it says what you are clamming.

Oh and by the way, what the hell does your list of grievances above have to do with the Ukraine?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:54 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They did not have the authority to select a new President, according to Ukrainian law.

What they SHOULD have done is keep Yanukovich as a placeholder, and hold early elections AS AGREED TO ALREADY. But the new government was rushing to ink a deal with the EU and the IMF, it was uncertain what elections would result in, so legality and representation be hanged.



Please give me a citation to show that the Parliament did not have the power to place an interim President.

The first agreement had elections as late as December, after removing Yanukovich the Parliament announced elections in May. So elections sooner. Keeping Yanukovich as a place holder was not going to happen after his orders got so many protesters killed.

Elections in May or December? Which one seems more like a stall tactic?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Please give me a citation to show that the Parliament did not have the power to place an interim President.


Why do I have to do your thinking for you?

Quote:

On February 21, 2014 the parliament passed a law that reinstated the December 8, 2004 amendments of the constitution.[16] This was passed under simplified procedure without any decision of the relevant committee and was passed in the first and the second reading in one voting by 386 deputies.[16] The law was approved by 140 MPs of the Party of Regions, 89 MPs of Batkivshchyna, 40 MPs of UDAR, 32 of the Communist Party, and 50 independent lawmakers.[16] According to Radio Free Europe, however, the measure was not signed by the then-President Viktor Yanukovych, who allegedly was subsequently removed from office without the constitutionally required procedures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine

It's not grievances, MIKER. Gosh, I would have thought the intent would have been obvious, and not need explanation.

It's a short list of how people have been duped over and over again. Duped on 9-11, duped about Iraq, duped about Libya, Duped about Syria. Have you been duped your entire life? If you were lied to about many of these events, how do you know that the press isn't lying to you now???

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:55 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They did not have the authority to select a new President, according to Ukrainian law.

What they SHOULD have done is keep Yanukovich as a placeholder, and hold early elections AS AGREED TO ALREADY. But the new government was rushing to ink a deal with the EU and the IMF, it was uncertain what elections would result in, so legality and representation be hanged.



Please give me a citation to show that the Parliament did not have the power to place an interim President.

The first agreement had elections as late as December, after removing Yanukovich the Parliament announced elections in May. So elections sooner. Keeping Yanukovich as a place holder was not going to happen after his orders got so many protesters killed.

Elections in May or December? Which one seems more like a stall tactic?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



You keep making great points. BROVO

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:57 PM

CHRISISALL




Did you believe that Saddam had WMD? NO
Did you think that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria? YES
Were you were surprised by 9-11? YES (I thought the White House would be the target)
Did you predict the meltdown of 2008? YES (not the specific year though)
Were you convinced that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked? YES

Have you been duped your entire life? MORE THAN I THOUGHT

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:02 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Please give me a citation to show that the Parliament did not have the power to place an interim President.


Why do I have to do your thinking for you?

Quote:

On February 21, 2014 the parliament passed a law that reinstated the December 8, 2004 amendments of the constitution.[16] This was passed under simplified procedure without any decision of the relevant committee and was passed in the first and the second reading in one voting by 386 deputies.[16] The law was approved by 140 MPs of the Party of Regions, 89 MPs of Batkivshchyna, 40 MPs of UDAR, 32 of the Communist Party, and 50 independent lawmakers.[16] According to Radio Free Europe, however, the measure was not signed by the then-President Viktor Yanukovych, who allegedly was subsequently removed from office without the constitutionally required procedures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine

It's not grievances, MIKER. Gosh, I would have thought the intent would have been obvious, and not need explanation.

It's a short list of how people have been duped over and over again. Duped on 9-11, duped about Iraq, duped about Libya, Duped about Syria. Have you been duped your entire life? If you were lied to about many of these events, how do you know that the press isn't lying to you now???



The only person involved in that vote that thinks you are right is the guy they kicked out of office. Of course he is not going to sign it. I do not see you posting a quote from their constitution proving you right and their parliament wrong. Show us in the Ukrainian constitution where it says you are right. All you have done is show us the vote count.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52
Quote:

Keeping Yanukovich as a place holder was not going to happen after his orders got so many protesters killed.
This has been unproven, but the snipers were most likely under orders from "revolution", as they continue to operate in the Ukraine, against the pro-Russians. Why do you keep repeating a falsehood? Did you believe that Saddam had WMD as well? Was Noriega really a major drug-runner? Was the economy really "on fire" in 2007?

Lookit, you guys are chock-a-block full of bull. You've been duped, and quite frankly aren't worth me taking any more of my day to argue bullshit. In four or five years - or perhaps more- this will be as clear as the lies that got us into Iraq. The only problem is, YOU'LL be five years too late.

AS USUAL!

Goodbye.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:06 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Quote:

Keeping Yanukovich as a place holder was not going to happen after his orders got so many protesters killed.
This has been unproven, but the snipers were most likely under orders from "revolution", as they continue to operate in the Ukraine, against the pro-Russians. Why do you keep repeating a falsehood? Did you believe that Saddam had WMD as well? Was Noriega really a major drug-runner? Was the economy really "on fire" in 2007?

Lookit, you guys are chock-a-block full of bull. You've been duped, and quite frankly aren't worth me taking any more of my day to argue bullshit. In four or five years - or perhaps more- this will be as clear as the lies that got us into Iraq. The only problem is, YOU'LL be five years too late.




The only person involved in that vote that thinks you are right is the guy they kicked out of office. Of course he is not going to sign it. I do not see you posting a quote from their constitution proving you right and their parliament wrong. Show us in the Ukrainian constitution where it says you are right. All you have done is show us the vote count.

SHOW US IN THE UKRAINE CONSTITUTION WHERE IS SAYS WHAT YOU ARE CLAMMING.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:08 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Quote:

Keeping Yanukovich as a place holder was not going to happen after his orders got so many protesters killed.
This has been unproven, but the snipers were most likely under orders from "revolution", as they continue to operate in the Ukraine, against the pro-Russians. Why do you keep repeating a falsehood? Did you believe that Saddam had WMD as well? Was Noriega really a major drug-runner? Was the economy really "on fire" in 2007?

Lookit, you guys are chock-a-block full of bull. You've been duped, and quite frankly aren't worth me taking any more of my day to argue bullshit. In four or five years - or perhaps more- this will be as clear as the lies that got us into Iraq. The only problem is, YOU'LL be five years too late.



In other words you can't back up your claim the the Ukrainian Parliament actions were illegal. You also don't have a comment about the fact that opposition set elections sooner than the agreement did.

All your other questions are simply noise.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:09 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:

You two keep getting smacked down no matter who it is you are dealing with


I did try to warn you. The Psycho Sisters feed off each other's vanity and delusions.



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:12 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:

You two keep getting smacked down no matter who it is you are dealing with


I did try to warn you. The Psycho Sisters feed off each other's vanity and delusions.





That is just too funny. And true.

They have to be socialists, I think that is why they called me a fascist and are trying so hard to defend Russia.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of the special procedure
(??????????), set by the article 111 of this Constitution;

Procedure not followed.
http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Now, do you feel stupid? You should. But, you're probably used to the feeling by now, which is why you had to descend to Jongsstraw's level. But, since you've had your head up someone else's ass for so many years, you're probably used to Jongsstraw's pigpen smell as well.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:16 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of the special procedure
(??????????), set by the article 111 of this Constitution;

Procedure not followed.
http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Now, do you feel stupid?



Not at all. Show me where it says you are right. It is easy to just pull up a document and say see. This is like you posting links earlier that don't suggest what you are saying. Show me where it says you are right and the Ukrainian parliament is wrong.

Oh look the constitution of Bulgaria?

http://www.parliament.bg/en/const

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Show me where it says you are right

Oh yeah MIKER, it says right there in the Constitution ... "SIGNY IS RIGHT!" Didn't you see it??

Sheesh!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:24 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Show me where it says you are right

Oh yeah MIKER, it says right there in the Constitution ... "SIGNY IS RIGHT!" Didn't you see it??

Sheesh!



Oh look the constitution of Bulgaria. Boy that was tough. Hey look it says you are right.

http://www.parliament.bg/en/const

Oh look the constitution of Guam:

http://www.guam.net/pub/sshs/students/clubs/pls/plsconstituion.htm


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You have really gone into the pigpen. It didn't take much to make you lose all reasonableness, did it?

I have better things to do with my day. Sorry MIKER, I have to leave.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:32 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You have really gone into the pigpen. It didn't take much to make you lose all reasonableness, did it?



What are you talking about? You have been preaching to everyone for two days how the Ukrainians have broken the laws according to their constitution. All the rest of us what to know is where is your prof. Not speculation because that is your opinion but where are the facts you are so fond of saying no one but you has?



I let this go earlier but you got insulting. Now we both know who is prepared to go the distance if pushed. Let us let future discussions be just that: discussions.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:34 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of the special procedure
(??????????), set by the article 111 of this Constitution;

Procedure not followed.
http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Now, do you feel stupid? You should. But, you're probably used to the feeling by now, which is why you had to descend to Jongsstraw's level. But, since you've had your head up someone else's ass for so many years, you're probably used to Jongsstraw's pigpen smell as well.





What in the hell are you talking about?

They removed he based on crimes committed against protesters.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The procedure to remove Yanukovich was not followed. BTW- you can't find the Ukrainian Constitution on the government website, all you get is 404. Apparently it's not in force anymore.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:39 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of the special procedure
(??????????), set by the article 111 of this Constitution;

Procedure not followed.
http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Now, do you feel stupid? You should. But, you're probably used to the feeling by now, which is why you had to descend to Jongsstraw's level. But, since you've had your head up someone else's ass for so many years, you're probably used to Jongsstraw's pigpen smell as well.





What in the hell are you talking about?

"Article 111.
The president of Ukraine can be removed from a post by Supreme Soviet of Ukraine in order of ?????????? in the case of accomplishing by him high treason or other crime."

?????????? = impeachment

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



I think it is over. Great job in providing facts. I am very impressed with you and KPO.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I think it is over. Great job in providing facts

Yes, THANK YOU! Since I proved my facts.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:44 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I think it is over. Great job in providing facts

Yes, THANK YOU! Since I proved my facts.



You proved nothing. Here is the link http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Now show us where you are right.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:46 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The procedure to remove Yanukovich was not followed. BTW- you can't find the Ukrainian Constitution on the government website, all you get is 404. Apparently it's not in force anymore.



http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/44a280124.pdf

Here is the link, show us where you are right.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:

Not at all. Show me where it says you are right.

I read 111. It wasn't difficult.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, was this the procedure followed?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine,_2010

Article 111

The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime.

The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.

The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.




OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:51 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine,_2010

Article 111

The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime.

The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.



For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.

The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.




OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."




Which the president did and the parliament voted him out. Exactly.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:51 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The procedure to remove Yanukovich was not followed. BTW- you can't find the Ukrainian Constitution on the government website, all you get is 404. Apparently it's not in force anymore.



Or, the website is down.

You're are right the procedure was not followed, or it seems like it was not.

The Parliament's resolution called Yanukoich leaving Kiev a self-withdrawal.

http://georgia.mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/news-from-ukraine/717-verkho
vna-rada-ukrajini-uhvalila-postanovu-pro-samousunennya-prezidenta-ukrajini-vid-vikonannya-konstitucijnih-povnovazheny-ta-priznachennya-pozachergovih-viboriv-prezidenta-ukrajini




I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Really? Did they follow this entire legal procedure? Yes or no.

Or are legalities triflings to you? "Cause, yanno, if you're steamed enough and you have guns it makes whatever you do right ...



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


self-withdrawal

doesn't seem to be a parliamentary option



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:56 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The procedure to remove Yanukovich was not followed. BTW- you can't find the Ukrainian Constitution on the government website, all you get is 404. Apparently it's not in force anymore.



Or, the website is down.

You're are right the procedure was not followed, or it seems like it was not.

The Parliament's resolution called Yanukoich leaving Kiev a self-withdrawal.

http://georgia.mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/news-from-ukraine/717-verkho
vna-rada-ukrajini-uhvalila-postanovu-pro-samousunennya-prezidenta-ukrajini-vid-vikonannya-konstitucijnih-povnovazheny-ta-priznachennya-pozachergovih-viboriv-prezidenta-ukrajini




I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.




This is a press release from the Embassy of Georgia. It is about the charges and procedure they tried to follow according to the press release. It is in now way complete, and like I said, this link brings you to a press release not into the parliamentary discussions or debates on it's legality. It just says a bit and then gives news updates.

The president at the time had protesters shot and he was corrupt as hell. He abandoned the country and the parliament did what it needed to do to carry on. Remember he emptied his home as he fled. He took all the ill gotten goods he could carry with him. He showed at the time he was not intending to maintain his presidency.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Really? Did they follow this entire legal procedure (111)? Yes or no.

Or are legalities triflings to you? "Cause, yanno, if you're steamed enough and you have guns it makes whatever you do right ...



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:00 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Really? Did they follow this entire legal procedure? Yes or no.

Or are legalities triflings to you?



What legal procedure are you referring? The resolution the Parliament used was not based on impeachment. It was based on Yanukovych leaving the country. It was found he withdrew from his post in a non-constitutional manor.

They than set elections as outlined in the Constitution.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Then take that up with Miker, KPO, Jongsie et al who keep INSISTING! he was legally impeached.

As for your point - be a dear and show me where it says there is such a charge in the constitution.

Meanwhile, I have more important things to do like track down a chicken in garlic sauce recipe.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:05 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Really? Did they follow this entire legal procedure (111)? Yes or no.

Or are legalities triflings to you? "Cause, yanno, if you're steamed enough and you have guns it makes whatever you do right ...



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."



In a word, Yup, and the rest of the world recognizes the new government of Ukraine. You may not but that doesn't much matter now does it?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Then I'm sure you can spell it out with facts. Links, cites, specifics. Yanno - all the things that had to be done like convening a committee to investigate the charges, etc. I bet there are all sorts of news items that all that was done. In the meantime ... I really need to find that recipe.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:19 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Then take that up with Miker, KPO, Jongsie et al who keep INSISTING! he was legally impeached.

As for your point - be a dear and show me where it says there is such a charge in the constitution.

Meanwhile, I have more important things to do like track down a chicken in garlic sauce recipe.



I will tell them that Yanukovych was not impeached. Parliament found that he had removed himself.

There is noting that covers a President abandoning his post in the constitution, so the Parliament was left in a bind. They followed the constitution when it came to there actions afterwards.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But he didn't leave the country. So why would they claim he 'abandoned' his post?



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:22 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But he didn't leave the country. So why would they claim he 'abandoned' his post?







Then how did he wind up in Russia?

This is a press release from the Embassy of Georgia. It is about the charges and procedure they tried to follow according to the press release. It is in now way complete, and like I said, this link brings you to a press release not into the parliamentary discussions or debates on it's legality. It just says a bit and then gives news updates. It doesn't take you into the court process at all.


http://georgia.mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/news-from-ukraine/717-verkho
vna-rada-ukrajini-uhvalila-postanovu-pro-samousunennya-prezidenta-ukrajini-vid-vikonannya-konstitucijnih-povnovazheny-ta-priznachennya-pozachergovih-viboriv-prezidenta-ukrajini


like I said before, the world recognizes the new government and it doesn't much matter what you think.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I let this go earlier but you got insulting
You went there first, assface. But that seem to be your go-to response when the facts seems to be slipping away.

Quote:

The president at the time had protesters shot and he was corrupt as hell
Was this proved according to the Constitutional procedure? Yes or no?

Quote:

But he didn't leave the country. So why would they claim he 'abandoned' his post?-KIKi
Then how did he wind up in Russia? -MIKER

Did he leave the country BEFORE the vote? Was the vote legal? Were procedures followed?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:34 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yes, that was already linked. And certainly doesn't back up your claims.


As to Yanukovych in Russia, that was reported by the Guardian on Feb 27. Theguardian.com, Thursday 27 February 2014 09.04 EST http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/viktor-yanukovych-russia-
ukrainian-president-moscow
That was days AFTER he was found guilty in absentia. Are you saying the Parliament was able to time-travel and see he would be in Russia in the future, and so they could claim on February 22, 2014 he 'abandoned' his post before it happened?



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:36 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But he didn't leave the country. So why would they claim he 'abandoned' his post?



"On Maidan, Klitschko announced that he and the opposition would be soon voting on the impeachment of Viktor Yanukovych in parliament, the bill of which was registered in the previous session.[208] In Parliament, Speaker Volodymyr Rybak submitted his resignation, citing alleged illness.[248] Yanukovych's whereabouts were unknown despite media reports he had flown to Kharkiv. Oleksandr Turchynov stated that in fact most of the ministers had disappeared as well as Interior Minister Vitaly Zakharchenko (who is reported to have fled to Belarus[249]) and President Viktor Yanukovych, "The only one legitimate body left is the Verkhovna Rada – so we are here to vote today. The major tasks for today are: to vote for the new speaker, prime minister and interior minister."[208] In the Verkhovna Rada, deputies voted 328:0 (of the 447 deputies)[250] to set the Presidential election date to 25 May.[60][251] The action did not follow the impeachment process as specified by the Constitution of Ukraine (which would have involved formally charging the president with a crime, a review of the charge by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, and a three-fourths majority vote – i.e. at least 338 votes in favor – by the Rada); instead, the Verkhovna Rada declared that Yanukovych "withdrew from his duties in an unconstitutional manner" and cited "circumstances of extreme urgency" as the reason for early elections.[252] Oleksandr Turchynov was then voted by parliament Chairman of the Ukrainian Parliament and acting President and Prime Minister of Ukraine.[253][254][255]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

When you can't find your President or any of his ministers it is far to say he's gone.

Further more with this move you got elections scheduled for a set date, May 25 as opposed to some date, latest December. So the new elections you were talking about are happening, and sooner rather than later.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yes, Miker, this is your very first fact-filled, thoughtful and cordial post on the topic:


Friday, May 2, 2014 9:41 PM

You have however proved your ignorance on all subjects under the sun and your inability to stop yourself from proving it.

Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

It is as plain as what you say is wrong, everything about what you speak is based on your hate.

I am done with trying to cut you slack. To continue discussing this or anything else with you would only mean there is something wrong with me.

You are a disappointment.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 05:27 - 6154 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 02:07 - 3408 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
Elections; 2024
Wed, March 27, 2024 22:19 - 2069 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:45 - 5 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
Wed, March 27, 2024 11:59 - 16 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Wed, March 27, 2024 10:57 - 49 posts
Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts
You can't take the sky from me, a tribute to Firefly
Tue, March 26, 2024 16:26 - 293 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL