REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

IMF to Kiev - fight for eastern Ukraine or die

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2023 17:04
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Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52- At this point, I don't see how they can hold elections, seeing as Ukraine is in civil war. (which, BTW, I predicted.)

So the United States will further sanction Russia because Obama is ASSUMING that Russia is at the heart of all this and has sufficient control to stop the violence. But even if that were the case, it's a one-sided disarmament.

Maybe Russia will simply cut off all gas to the EU. I dunno.

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:46 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52- At this point, I don't see how they can hold elections, seeing as Ukraine is in civil war. (which, BTW, I predicted.)



You and just about every one else. We will see if the elections go through on the 25th.

I'm going to safely assume that the President of the United States know quite a bit more on what is going on then you do.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FROM YOUR LINK - AND I POSTED THIS EARLIER:

On 21 February, President Yanukovych signed a compromise deal with opposition leaders which would implement constitutional changes to hand powers back to parliament and early elections, to be held by December.

Despite the agreement thousands still protested in central Kiev and took full control of Kiev's government district; they took over the parliament, the president's administration quarters, the cabinet, and the Interior Ministry.[50][51] On 21 February an impeachment bill was introduced in Ukrainian parliament,[52] but no details were provided and the Ukrainian parliament did not vote to impeach Yanukovich according to the legal procedure.[53] On 21 February Yanukovich left for Kharkov to attend a summit of south-eastern regions, according to media reports.

On 22 February, Parliament voted to declare that the chair of the President is vacant due to the fact that Yanukovich left Ukraine and no longer exercises his duties. An editorial in Der Spiegel argued that the vote was unconstitutional.[5]

On 22 February, Parliament named its speaker Oleksandr Turchynov as interim president on 23 February.[1] A warrant for the arrest of Yanukovych was issued by the new government on 24 February.[55] During the next days in Crimea, Russian nationalist politicians and activists organised rallies and urged Russia to help defend Crimea from advancing "fascists" from the rest of Ukraine.[56]


So, he leaves for a meeting and THE VERY NEXT DAY THEY SAY HE'S ABANDONED HIS POSITION.

IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE IS A LEGAL AND PROPER PROCEDURE?






OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:55 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
FROM YOUR LINK - AND I POSTED THIS EARLIER:

On 21 February, President Yanukovych signed a compromise deal with opposition leaders which would implement constitutional changes to hand powers back to parliament and early elections, to be held by December.

Despite the agreement thousands still protested in central Kiev and took full control of Kiev's government district; they took over the parliament, the president's administration quarters, the cabinet, and the Interior Ministry.[50][51] On 21 February an impeachment bill was introduced in Ukrainian parliament,[52] but no details were provided and the Ukrainian parliament did not vote to impeach Yanukovich according to the legal procedure.[53] On 21 February Yanukovich left for Kharkov to attend a summit of south-eastern regions, according to media reports.

On 22 February, Parliament voted to declare that the chair of the President is vacant due to the fact that Yanukovich left Ukraine and no longer exercises his duties. An editorial in Der Spiegel argued that the vote was unconstitutional.[5]

On 22 February, Parliament named its speaker Oleksandr Turchynov as interim president on 23 February.[1] A warrant for the arrest of Yanukovych was issued by the new government on 24 February.[55] During the next days in Crimea, Russian nationalist politicians and activists organised rallies and urged Russia to help defend Crimea from advancing "fascists" from the rest of Ukraine.[56]



What are you pointing to the media reports of were he went? Good for media reports if people in the government could not reach him.


At some point are you going to address the issue of elections being scheduled, which was your main argument for keeping Yanukovych earlier?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:56 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yes, Miker, this is your very first fact-filled, thoughtful and cordial post on the topic:



Friday, May 2, 2014 9:41 PM

You have however proved your ignorance on all subjects under the sun and your inability to stop yourself from proving it.

Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

It is as plain as what you say is wrong, everything about what you speak is based on your hate.

I am done with trying to cut you slack. To continue discussing this or anything else with you would only mean there is something wrong with me.

You are a disappointment.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."





M52NICKERSON:
"On Maidan, Klitschko announced that he and the opposition would be soon voting on the impeachment of Viktor Yanukovych in parliament, the bill of which was registered in the previous session.[208] In Parliament, Speaker Volodymyr Rybak submitted his resignation, citing alleged illness.[248] Yanukovych's whereabouts were unknown despite media reports he had flown to Kharkiv. Oleksandr Turchynov stated that in fact most of the ministers had disappeared as well as Interior Minister Vitaly Zakharchenko (who is reported to have fled to Belarus[249]) and President Viktor Yanukovych, "The only one legitimate body left is the Verkhovna Rada – so we are here to vote today. The major tasks for today are: to vote for the new speaker, prime minister and interior minister."[208] In the Verkhovna Rada, deputies voted 328:0 (of the 447 deputies)[250] to set the Presidential election date to 25 May.[60][251] The action did not follow the impeachment process as specified by the Constitution of Ukraine (which would have involved formally charging the president with a crime, a review of the charge by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, and a three-fourths majority vote – i.e. at least 338 votes in favor – by the Rada); instead, the Verkhovna Rada declared that Yanukovych "withdrew from his duties in an unconstitutional manner" and cited "circumstances of extreme urgency" as the reason for early elections.[252] Oleksandr Turchynov was then voted by parliament Chairman of the Ukrainian Parliament and acting President and Prime Minister of Ukraine.[253][254][255]"



Miker:
I sit here knowing the whole world aside from Russia and the two of you I have been arguing with, have excepted the new Ukrainian government as legit, and that makes you by proxy wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone has suggested you always do this and talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You have proven them right, right, right. I should tell you, you can't upset me. "Firefly" sorry I couldn't resist.

I said it a long time ago. You don't get it and you never will and that is ok, because here amongst your peers you are known and understood. They knew as with other threads that you will argue something until the others no longer wish to discuss it with you. Not based on the merits of your arguments, but because of your being unteachable.

And for the last time. The Ukraine government is and your opinion does not get a vote.

Again M52NICKERSON, great job.

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Good for media reports if people in the government could not reach him."

So, he goes out of contact overnight - and THE NEXT DAY they conclude he abandoned his position AND passed a resolution that he should no longer be president. All without a quorum. On top of which, there was no legal constitutional justification for that action. WHATEVER.

As for the election - there are now important difference between what would have happened if it had been allowed to happen AS THE OPPOSITION AGREED TO, and now. The Constitution has been changed. International agreements have been drawn. New (and equally unelected) members of Parliament have been seated. Most important, the person who should be running can't even enter his own country.

So, you too support the coup. And having an election afterwards makes it all OK. Good to know.




OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:19 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity









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Saturday, May 3, 2014 11:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Once again, words and facts fail you.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Saturday, May 3, 2014 11:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, got my recipe. chicken, celery, onion, broccoli, water chestnuts, garlic sauce



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:07 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Good for media reports if people in the government could not reach him."

So, he goes out of contact overnight - and THE NEXT DAY they conclude he abandoned his position AND passed a resolution that he should no longer be president. All without a quorum. On top of which, there was no legal constitutional justification for that action. WHATEVER.

As for the election - there are now important difference between what would have happened if it had been allowed to happen AS THE OPPOSITION AGREED TO, and now. The Constitution has been changed. International agreements have been drawn. New (and equally unelected) members of Parliament have been seated. Most important, the person who should be running can't even enter his own country.

So, you too support the coup. And having an election afterwards makes it all OK. Good to know.



He and all his ministers go missing overnight, YES. More so when the Parliament is moving to impeach him.

Were did you get they did not have a quorum?

From the Ukraine Constitution:

Article 76.
Constitutional composition of Supreme Soviet of Ukraine - four hundred fifty folk deputies of Ukraine, which are elected on the basis of common, even and direct electoral law by the secret vote.

...

Article 82.
Supreme Soviet of Ukraine works session. Supreme Soviet of Ukraine is plenipotentiary on condition of election more no less as two third from its constitutional composition.

The Parliament needs only 2/3 for a quorum, they had that. They do need 3/4 to remove the President by impeachment but that is not what happened.

Also note this clause:

Article 91.
Supreme Soviet of Ukraine passes acts, decisions and other acts by majority from its constitutional composition, except for the cases foreseen by this
Constitution.

The Ukraine Constitution did not foresee the situation that had.

As for the elections, Yanukovych has a whole 4% popularity so he was going to be a non factor in the elections. Yes circumstance would have been different had they waited, however different does not mean better.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MIKER
Quote:

I sit here knowing the whole world aside from Russia and the two of you...
And this is where I replied that you should recalibrate what you think of as "the whole world" since China, India, Brazil, and more than half of the remainder of the world's nations either voted against the USA or abstained in the UN.

Your self-importance is a sight to behold. Once gain, facts fail you.

M52
There were many unfulfilled parts of the impeachment procedure. There was no special prosecutor, and no special investigator. In fact, there was no investigation. A geographically significant part of the Rada was missing, all of whom would have been Yanukovich's allies. The Constituion requires...
Quote:

Decision about the removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of
?mpeachment is made Supreme Soviet of Ukraine more no less as three fourth from its constitutional composition

It was a coup, and the politicians on the losing side feared for their safety. The result had already been decided, because it was necessary for the new government to sign the IMF contract.

Surely, if you look at the circumstances surrounding the change of the Ukrainian government with any objectivity, without the objective of "winning an argument" or justifying the result, you'll see that it was a rush to judgment and did not meet all Constitutional requirements, or even a reasonable fascimilie of impeachment.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:59 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
M52
There were many unfulfilled parts of the impeachment procedure. There was no special prosecutor, and no special investigator. In fact, there was no investigation. A geographically significant part of the Rada was missing, all of whom would have been Yanukovich's allies. The Constituion requires...
Quote:

Decision about the removal of President of Ukraine from a post in order of
?mpeachment is made Supreme Soviet of Ukraine more no less as three fourth from its constitutional composition

It was a coup, and the politicians on the losing side feared for their safety. The result had already been decided, because it was necessary for the new government to sign the IMF contract.

Surely, if you look at the circumstances surrounding the change of the Ukrainian government with any objectivity, without the objective of "winning an argument" or justifying the result, you'll see that it was a rush to judgment and did not meet all Constitutional requirements, or even a reasonable fascimilie of impeachment.



The Parliament did not impeach him. So you are correct in saying those procedures were not followed. The Parliament found that the President had abandoned his position, non-constitutionally, and followed the constitution from there.

As for the UN vote...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/27/here-are-
the-11-u-n-members-that-voted-against-a-resolution-on-ukraines-unity
/

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&hs=HOV&rls=org.
mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=Un+vote+Ukraine&spell=1&sa=X&ei=fcZlU9KHKsTKsQSCwoCACg&ved=0CCUQvwUoAA


100 for, 11 against, 58 abstaining. SIGNYM you are more far off then MIKER was, but a long ways.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:49 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, you've provided proof that Miker was wrong with its: "I sit here knowing the whole world aside from Russia and the two of you..."

You gonna take up his error with him? Of COURSE NOT. You just want 'your side' to 'win' - you don't care about facts. or democracy.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 8:53 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, you've provided proof that Miker was wrong with its: "I sit here knowing the whole world aside from Russia and the two of you..."

You gonna take up his error with him? Of COURSE NOT. You just want 'your side' to 'win' - you don't care about facts. or democracy.



Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:19 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

M52- At this point, I don't see how they can hold elections, seeing as Ukraine is in civil war.

You doubt Russia's involvement in the East, but it's worth noting that if the national elections went ahead they would be a disaster for the pro-Russia parties, and for Putin, who wants Ukraine as part of his Eurasian Union, along with Belarus and Kazakhstan (and now Belarus's president is voicing doubts about joining).



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:24 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

It was a coup, and the politicians on the losing side feared for their safety.

They didn't flee for their safety, they abstained. They didn't have the votes to block parliament, and why vote symbolically to back a disgraced leader? Fleeing the capital was just a melodramatic way of abstaining.



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:33 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


I will repost my response to the SIGNYM thread. With me it never was about how legal the process was in the Ukraine but instead, to address what the thread was stating up front and in context. That the west and the EU and (Nato) were responsible for the aggressive actions of the Ukrainian government. You guys never address the actual point of the thread. That they threatened to stop payment on loans if the Ukrainians did not attack the Russian sympathizers. You took it off track with your interpretations of what transpired behind closed doors in the Ukrainian parliament and its legality. Something you could not possibly know about except in your grandiose minds.

It has been amazing to me to hear you preach as thought you had the inside tract on what happened in the Ukrainian parliament thousands of miles away, and were privy councilor to all the facts and laws need to be addressed in this matter. Quite amazing to watch.

Like I said, I will repost my response to the accusations of the thread. the rest has been my responses to your constantly suggesting that the Ukrainians had no right to do what they did. This based on you knowledge of the Ukrainian law. Quite astounding assumptions on your part I have to say.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia. This includes providing political cover and cookies and photo-ops with John McCain for Ukraine’s neo-Nazis, personally insulting Putin, breaking negotiated agreements with Russia, endlessly threatening sanctions, and lying in the press (with fake photos, fake flyers, and false reports).

The latest entry into the “provoke a war” campaign is the IMF. The IMF seems intent on pitting Ukraine into a death-match with Russia by threatening their loan status: Fight, or else your loan conditions will be ‘renegotiated’. Since Ukraine’s economy is hanging on ONLY by this thread, the IMF’s statement is an existential threat to the Kiev government.

At this juncture, there’s no point in trying to figure who is behind all this. With the entry of the IMF (and for all I know, the remainder of the troika: the European Commission and the European Central Bank ECB) into the fray, this is clearly a well-coordinated plan, with the USA and the EU and the IMF alternately taking turns to push the project forward, creating no discernable division of interest between them.

Until recently, the Kiev government has been reluctant to mobilize its army because the army itself is probably divided; there have been reports of “security forces” defecting to the east. Instead, the Kiev government has been trying to create citizen militias… pro-Nazi groups and other irregular forces to take the place of the army.

Since the IMF has threatened to renegotiate the loan status, Turchinov, the unelected President of Kiev… oops, I mean Ukraine… has reinstated the draft. I can't imagine what liberal pro-western Ukrainians are thinking now... "Doubled gas prices? Halved pensions? And now the draft???"

----------------------------

Ukraine unrest: Kiev 'helpless' to quell parts of east
Ukraine's acting President Olexander Turchynov has admitted his forces are "helpless" to quell unrest driven by pro-Russian activists in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. Mr Turchynov said the goal was now to prevent the unrest spreading.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27222023

Ukraine crisis: Russian flags fill May Day rally
Thousands of protesters carrying Russian flags filled the street of Donetsk on Friday, as part of a May Day rally.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27241740

IM F : $17 bn loan would need overhaul if Ukraine loses east
The IMF says its just-announced $17 billion rescue program for Ukraine would have to be overhauled if the country loses control of the economically important eastern region to pro-Russian separatists.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-17-bn-loan-overhaul-164648824.ht
ml


Ukraine crisis: Kiev reinstates conscription
Ukraine's acting President Olexander Turchynov has reinstated military conscription to deal with deteriorating security in the east of the country. The move, announced in a decree, came as pro-Russia militants seized the regional prosecutor's office in the eastern city of Donetsk.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27247428]


Posted by Miker in response:


Here is a quote from the first link you provided as proof of your delusion that the US and EU are instigating things in the Ukraine.

"The acting president of Ukraine said that the tens of thousands of Russian troops stationed just over the border meant that "the threat of Russia starting a war against mainland Ukraine is real". Russia, which annexed the Crimea region from Ukraine last month, has said it has no plans to invade the east". Annexed means invaded and stole in this case. Did the US and EU goad Russia into that. I am sure you can cut and paste far out opinions about that but it would still be bull.

The BBC article says nothing about The US or EU being responsible for this crises, only how they have offered support to Ukraine and put sanctions in place to deter Putin. Which makes me wonder why you offer this first link up as verifying what you clam. You know the title to this thread, which is what you are purporting to be writing about. IMF TO KIEV- FIGHT FOR EASTERN UKRAINE OR DIE. Did you think no one would follow the links and read the articles.

This is where I wound up following your second link: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=0
Here is a quote from there.

"The German-led team was detained on April 25 while carrying out a mission for the 57-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, to which Russia, Ukraine and the United States belong". This is an organization put in place to monitor human rights and has existed long before this started in the Ukraine.

Wow, sounds like a real bunch of trouble makers to me, huh! Again this link not only does not support your claims but it suggests like the first link you are wrong and that Russia is pulling all the strings. Can't wait to see what goodies link 3 has in store.

Here is a quote from link three." The International Monetary Fund's official report on the emergency loan, released Thursday, concedes that there are deep risks to its successful implementation, including the quickly eroding economy, corruption, and the current and future government's ability to implement much-needed reforms".

Let's see. The EU the US and the IMF are not to be concerned about loaning the Ukraine 17 billion dollars while it is under assault from Russia? That they may be putting that money into the hands of pro Russian leaders, and funneled out of the country if they gain the upper hand. We are talking 17 billion dollars and they are trying to safe guard it from the wrong people getting hold of it. Makes perfect sense to me. The point is that the world is trying to help and not screw themselves at the same time. It is common sense, and once again the article says nothing to support your claims that the US or EU is behind Ukraine's troubles, but instead it suggests we are trying to help.

Ok I am not even going to follow the last link because I can read what the link says. Here is what it says to me. News flash, Ukraine stands up for it's rights to be a sovereign nation and begins to fight back.

I decided to speak to this after reading how sassy you became after I decided to stop arguing with a Idealist. This opinion you have posted that you claim to back up with facts, is not. You have posted links to articles that don't support your claims that the US and EU are behind the escalating violence. Yes there is all kinds of problems with the Ukrainian military because of it's history. However, none of what is being reported by reputable sources points to the US or the EU as you claim, to being behind the aggressions taking place. What the links provide is just more prof of the bios towards the west that exists in your mind. Here are two quotes from what you wrote to show how screwed up you are. "It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia". First line you write." At this juncture, there’s no point in trying to figure who is behind all this". First line third paragraph. Man you are all over the map trying to find ways to make the victims out to be the bad guys. By the way, it is funny how you call the Ukrainians fighting for their freedom from corruption and Russia Neo Nazis, which is exactly what Putin calls them. Excuse me I must go now and cut and paste my fantasy garden.

Dos ve donya comrade: you keep on believing.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You doubt Russia's involvement in the East, but it's worth noting that if the national elections went ahead they would be a disaster for the pro-Russia parties, and for Putin, who wants Ukraine as part of his Eurasian Union, along with Belarus and Kazakhstan (and now Belarus's president is voicing doubts about joining).
I do? Before you start telling me what I said and what I think, you might want to go back and read my posts. Show me where I said anything about it, because right now you're making assumptions, like you've been making all along.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:44 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You doubt Russia's involvement in the East, but it's worth noting that if the national elections went ahead they would be a disaster for the pro-Russia parties, and for Putin, who wants Ukraine as part of his Eurasian Union, along with Belarus and Kazakhstan (and now Belarus's president is voicing doubts about joining).
I do? Before you start telling me what I said and what I think, you might want to go back and read my posts. Show me where I said anything about it, because right now you're making assumptions, like you've been making all along.



I don't understand what you are asking. The quote has no frame of reference or who's quote it is in your post and what you posted that I am speaking about in right there in my post.

I also see you like to cut and paste a lot as though they are your words.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:47 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Come on people address the threads topic please. And Putin has already lost to big to count. The Ukrainians are beginning to hate the Russians.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Come on people address the threads topic please. And Putin has already lost *to big to count. The Ukrainians are beginning to hate the Russians.



Now you've gone and done it. You've incorrectly used 'to' instead of 'too'.

You entire existence is invalidated, because you're too stupid to even know grasp the basic usage rules pertaining to to, too, two.

Sorry. Thems the house rules here.


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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:00 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Come on people address the threads topic please. And Putin has already lost *to big to count. The Ukrainians are beginning to hate the Russians.



Now you've gone and done it. You've incorrectly used 'to' instead of 'too'.

You entire existence is invalidated, because you're too stupid to even know grasp the basic usage rules pertaining to to, too, two.

Sorry. Thems the house rules here.




I am so upset I can no longer stand myself. Please forgive. I am sure I only did it once and not to times.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52-
Quote:

Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.
MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.

So, to clarify, the whole world is NOT in "his side", specifically ... out of

193 member states
100 voted for
93 either voted against, abstained, or didn't vote.

In other words, it was 50/50. Which is what I said. So YOU better go a recalculate what YOU think of as 50/50, because the facts don't back you up, either.

OF the 93 nations which either voted no, abstained, or didn't vote, I find these interesting-
BRAZIL, CHINA, EGYPT, INDIA, PAKISTAN (India and Pakistan on the same side?), SOUTH AFRICA, IRAN, ISRAEL (Israel and Iran on the same side? I think Israel just doesn't like Neo-Nazis), OMAN and UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (you would think oil payments would be the tie that binds).

You can find the vote tally here
http://unbisnet.un.org:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?profile=voting&index=.
VM&term=ares68262


AFA Yanukovich "abandoning" his post, he stated FROM THE UKRAINE that he hadn't abandoned his post. And there is nothing that I could find in the Constitution about "abandon", "unable" (as in, "unable to perform duties") or anything else, so if you could please reference the subsection which allows such an action by the Rada, I would appreciate it.

Do you really fear the ignorance of man? Maybe what you should really fear is the "rationalizing" man... a person who twists facts to suit his or her own purposes.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MIKER...
Quote:

I don't understand what you are asking. The quote has no frame of reference or who's quote it is in your post and what you posted that I am speaking about in right there in my post.I also see you like to cut and paste a lot as though they are your words.


Huh? I wasn't responding to you, I was repsonding to KPO, who had just posted. (Please look up). Also, when I quote somebody- which I did in this case quote KPO- I use the "QUOTE" function to indicate a quote. I have no idea what you're refering to, as I did not cut and paste to claim as my words, simply quoted another person to show what I'm responding to.

USUALLY, I indicate who I'm talking to in a particular post by writing their name in CAPITAL LETTERS at the beginning of the relevant part, and when there are quotes from multiple people in one post, I inicate who wrote something by following the quote with -THEIR NAME. But in this case, it was a single quote and that other person will surely recognize their own statements.

Gosh, I'm not a spelling Nazi, please don't be an internet Nazi.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:11 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52- MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.

So, to clarify, the whole world is NOT in "his side", specifically ... out of

193 member states
100 voted for
93 either voted against, abstained, or didn't vote.

In other words, it was 50/50. Which is what I said. So YOU better go a recalculate what YOU think of as 50/50, because the facts don't back you up, either.



OF the 93 nations which either voted no, abstained, or didn't vote, I find these interesting-
BRAZIL, CHINA, EGYPT, INDIA, PAKISTAN (India and Pakistan on the same side?), SOUTH AFRICA, IRAN, ISRAEL (Israel and Iran on the same side? I think Israel just doesn't like Neo-Nazis), OMAN and UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (you would think oil payments would be the tie that binds).

You can find the vote tally here
http://unbisnet.un.org:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?profile=voting&index=.
VM&term=ares68262


AFA Yanukovich "abandoning" his post, he stated FROM THE UKRAINE that he hadn't abandoned his post. And there is nothing that I could find in the Constitution about "abandon", "unable" (as in, "unable to perform duties") or anything else, so if you could please reference the subsection which allows such an action by the Rada, I would appreciate it.



I stand by what I said. Some of the worlds leaders will only talk behind closed doors because they have contracts with Russia and can't afford to piss him off. That is the way the world works, and many are too small to confront him. Other nations hate the west like Iran but they are not free nations. I am speaking about free nations. When you think of who supports Russia think contracts, money to lose. I also exclude socialist countries comrade.

The point is. Ukraine has a new government, Yeah

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I stand by what I said.
Then you're sticking with your error. Okie dokie.
Quote:

Some of the worlds leaders will only talk behind closed doors because they have contracts with Russia and can't afford to piss him off. That is the way the world works, and many are too small to confront him.
And other nations hate the USA but can't afford to piss us off, because they hold contracts or dollars or have loans. Which is why I find it interesting that the BIGGEST nations either voted against us, or abstained. Clearly, they find their economic power to be useful in standing against the USA. And yes, that is the way the world works, you said so yourself.

I caught, earlier, a part of a post which you took down quickly, which went... I don't care about legality. Whether you say so explicitly or not, it's clear that you don't care about legality or democracy, all YOU care about is that the Ukraine "has a new government" ... by any means possible, as far as can tell.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:23 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I stand by what I said.
Then you're sticking with your error. Okie dokie.
Quote:

Some of the worlds leaders will only talk behind closed doors because they have contracts with Russia and can't afford to piss him off. That is the way the world works, and many are too small to confront him.
And other nations hate the USA but can't afford to piss us off, because they hold contracts or dollars or have loans. Which is why I find it interesting that the BIGGEST nations either voted against us, or abstained. Clearly, they find their economic power to be useful in standing against the USA. And yes, that is the way the world works, you said so yourself.



Exactly, and here we get back to the thread. You are one of those haters. This goes right back to where you and I started. It was hard to get you back here.

I believe in what the United States and Europe stands for over Russia, Brazil and other socialist countries. That is why I am on this side of the argument.

You are arguing for the socialist point of view. Exactly what my post was about. There are three days of proof of that.

It is good to be back on track.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I believe in what the United States and Europe stands for over Russia, Brazil and other socialist countries. That is why I am on this side of the argument.
I believe in what the USA stands for, too. But if you look at the Constitution (have you?) there is nothing in there about capitalism or bankers or the petrodollar...or socialism, for that matter. And if you take an unvarnished look at our history, you will hardly be able to find any nation (outside of WWII) that we have touched which didn't wind up POORER and under SOME FORM OF TYRANNY. In fact, we've made it a habit to destabilize democratically-elected governments everywhere, particularly if they promised their people land reform; or universal education and health care; threatened to nationalize "our" oil, copper, or bananas; planned to go off the petrodollar; or offered some geopolitical advantage vis a vis Russia. The Ukraine, which was a democratically-elected government, and which was planned to have elections again in 2015 ... and even earlier, as agreed to by Yanukovich... is now an appointed government which is at war with a significant minority of its population.

Happy now???

Yep, you betchya!

You don't believe in democracy or freedom, MIKER, you believe in capitalism.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 11:49 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Posted by SIGYNM: believe in what the United States and Europe stands for over Russia, Brazil and other socialist countries. That is why I am on this side of the argument.

I believe in what the USA stands for, too. But if you look at the Constituion, there is nothing in there about capitalism or bankers or the petrodollar...or socialism, for that matter. And if you take an unvarnished look at our history, you will hardly be able to find any nation (outside of WWII) that we have touched which didn't wind up POORER and under SOME FORM OF TYRANNY. In fact, we've made it a habit to destabilize democratically-elected governments everywhere, particularly if they promised land reform; universal education and health care; threatened to nationalize "our" oil, copper, or bananas; planned to go off the petrodollar; or offered some geopolitical advantage vis a vis Russia. The Ukraine, which was a democratically-elected government, and which was planeed to have elections again in 2015 ... and even earlier, as agreed to by Yanukovich... is now an appointed government which is at war with a significant minority of its population.
Hoppy now?






Miker
I don't care what you post about your love of country. For three days you have been bashing the shit out of it in favor of the Russian point of view. That is where your heart is at.

You have taken the side of the socialist invader. All of your arguments are mirror imagines of Putin's. Right down to calling the Ukrainians fighting for control of their own country Fascists. Reread your opening post to this thread. It is an attack on this and other ally countries while saying nothing of the Russian invaders.

Sorry but you are a hater of America in my eyes. You have been relentless in calling them responsible for the newest aggressions in the Ukraine along with our other ally's. You are guilty of not only giving Putin a free ride, but you have also taken up his cause. You my dear along with your friend have been leading the charge.

I my self realize the complexities of the world, hope for the best and side with right when I can recognize it. I have little hope corruption is dead in Ukraine or that they will make a success of it. I just know they reached out to the west for help and I am glad we are responding.

A quote from you. It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia.



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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Right down to calling the Ukrainians fighting for control of their own country Fascists.
MIKER- I call the Ukrainian security administration "fascists" because they are self-avowed Neo-Nazis who quote Hilter. I hate to be the one to have to keep looking stuff up for you, but here is the head of the Svoboda Party, which has three important assignments in internal security apparatus




Quote:

I my self realize the complexities of the world, hope for the best and side with right when I can recognize it.
Your recognition of the complexities of the world seem to stop at the point where the United States goes around breaking nations for the helluvit. Which we seem to have a pretty consistent history of doing. Either we're terribly clumsy in implementing our avowed goals and have made the same "mistakes" four dozen times (but, who's counting??), or we're not really intervening for the reasons that we say that we are.

I think that the Ukraine will implode. The reason why I say that is because the IMF's loan requirements are the same as imposed on Greece... and look at how well THEY'RE doing. (not) Ukrainians wanted to join the west because they thought they would be better off. Now they're facing doubled gas prices, reduced pensions, a civil war, AND a draft. This is not what they signed up for! The Russian minority will become a persecuted one. And over time, as the new economic realities set in, people will become less and less happy.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:12 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Right down to calling the Ukrainians fighting for control of their own country Fascists.
MIKER- I call the Ukrainian security administration "fascists" because they are self-avowed Neo-Nazis who quote Hilter. I hate to be the one to have to keep looking stuff up for you, but here is the head of the Svoboda Party, which has three important assignments in internal security apparatus







You gleefully take a few stupid comments from the ignorant few to make your points seem valid.

What then about the Putin supporter who upon taking over a city in eastern Ukraine posted fliers demanding Jews register with the new government. I would in no why use this to paint with a broad brush all Ukrainian Russians as fascist bigots to make my point seem valid.



"The leaflet begins, “Dear Ukraine citizens of Jewish nationality,” and states that all Jews 16 or older must report to the Commissioner for Nationalities in the Donetsk Regional Administration to register".

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/17/jews-being-told-regist
er-ukrainian-city-john-kerry
/

No, I don't believe for a minute you love this country.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You gleefully take a few stupid comments from the ignorant few to make your points seem valid.
The ignorant few? You mean the leadership which uses the Nazi salute? Those ignorant few?

Quote:

What then about the Putin supporter who upon taking over a city in eastern Ukraine posted fliers demanding Jews register with the new government. I would in no why use this to paint with a broad brush all Ukrainian Russians as fascist bigots to make your point.
It hasn't been figured out whether this was done by a pro-Russian or an anti-Russian.

MIKER, it's clear to me that you're belief-driven. You "believe" what the United States stands for - capitalism, apparently. Somehow, the Constitution got lost in the shuffle. But that's OK- so did the Ukraine's. You "believe" that I hate the United States, when nothing could be further from the truth. "Believe" then what you want; I've never found discussion with a true believer to be fruitful because even obvious facts become irrelevant.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:30 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You gleefully take a few stupid comments from the ignorant few to make your points seem valid.
The ignorant few? You mean the leadership which uses the Nazi salute? Those ignorant few?

Quote:

What then about the Putin supporter who upon taking over a city in eastern Ukraine posted fliers demanding Jews register with the new government. I would in no why use this to paint with a broad brush all Ukrainian Russians as fascist bigots to make your point.
It hasn't been figured out whether this was done by a pro-Russian or an anti-Russian.

MIKER, it's clear to me that you're belief-driven. You "believe" what the United States stands for - capitalism, apparently. Somehow, the Constitution got lost in the shuffle. But that's OK- so did the Ukraine's. You "believe" that I hate the United States, when nothing could be further from the truth. "Believe" then what you want; I've never found discussion with a true believer to be fruitful because even obvious facts become irrelevant.



Bullshit: http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people
-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest
/

Wrong but that is ok. I just wanted to get this thread back to what you started it as. An attack on the United States and it's Allies in the East. I have said it in many posts and believe I made my point.

I am on the side of the United States of America on this.

You are on the side of Putin and he Special Forces now raising havoc in the Ukraine.

Up with America and down with it's HATERS.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You don't believe in democracy or freedom, MIKER, you believe in capitalism.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:37 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You don't believe in democracy or freedom, MIKER, you believe in capitalism.



Did you see the link I posted? I have grave concerns about the inequities in the world.

That said I will not let you change the topic away form the heading of the thread. Not again. If you want to talk about capitalism start a new thread. this one is about<

"It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia"............. REMEMBER THIS?

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, it seems to me that they are.

At every step of the way, when this could have been reduced in scope ...

When Putin offered a tripartite trade agreement which the EU rejected because they wanted an EXCLUSIVE arrangment

When Yanukovych and the demonstrators agreed to early elections, which was abrogated by the demonstrators

When the eastern pro-Russians proposed a federalized system, rejected

When the IMF could have hung back, as it so often does when one of its debtors is undergoing internal strife, but instead put the pedal to the metal

... the West has seen a way to push this project foreward. Russians weren't in the Maidan handing out cookies, they weren't recorded picking and choosing the next government of Kiev, they didn't get involved until their base's security and lease arrangement got wobbly. That was well into the whole process. This is a western project.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:53 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yes, it seems to me that they are.

At every step of the way, when this could have been reduced in scope ...

When Putin offered a tripartite trade agreement which the EU rejected because they wanted an EXCLUSIVE arrangment

When Yanukovych and the demonstrators agreed to early elections, which was abrogated by the demonstrators

When the eastern pro-Russians proposed a federalized system, rejected

When the IMF could have hung back, as it so often does when one of its debtors is undergoing internal strife, but instead put the pedal to the metal

... the West has seen a way to push this project foreward. Russians weren't in the Maidan handing out cookies, they weren't recorded picking and choosing the next government of Kiev, they didn't get involved until their base's security and lease arrangement got wobbly. That was well into the whole process. This is a western project.



You are confusing business with covert operations. A majority of Ukrainians are tired of the corruption and living in poverty due to putting Russia first. They want better. To do this they recognized they need better ties to the EU and WEST.

This scared the shit out of Putin and he invaded. You can't fault the United States or EU for being more appealing that Russia, or for causing and escalating what is going on. PEROID

The United States has rejected nothing, The Ukrainian people have.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:06 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


I would point out that according to your logic, the people in countries like Saudi Arabia and North Korea can not over throw their governments because the law says so. It would be a coup and it would be breaking the countries laws. You call the Ukraine a democracy but the people recognized it was not. The same thing occurred in Egypt. They voted for someone to represent them in a democratic vote, and the first thing that leader did was ban everyone except his followers from constructing a new constitution. So they to are accused of overthrowing a democracy. It is very complicated stuff.

Sometimes you ga go for it.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"You call the Ukraine a democracy but the people recognized it was not."

Do internationally praised free and fair elections constitute a democracy? Because that's how Yanukovych got his position.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/08/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine
-president-election

Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair
• Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat
• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy


I haven't even started to read the posts from this morning. This was the first. And I'm not going to continue. You're as ignorant and partisan as they come- you might even give rappy a run for the money if you keep it up.

So, I'm not going to stick around for a reply, but I'll give you a word of advice (not that you'll take it, rappy didn't when he started down his delusional path either btw - is he your role model?) --- treat the 'news' you now accept as true as if it was an ad for a $105,000 car. Yanno, with a healthy dose of skepticism. Check out international news sources. Keep track of what they say one day versus the next. It doesn't take a whole lot (though it's far more than you've been managing, it seems) to catch them in inconsistencies and gaps.

Anyway, I have truly more important things to do than educate someone with self-inflicted ignorance.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:26 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"You call the Ukraine a democracy but the people recognized it was not."

Do internationally praised free and fair elections constitute a democracy? Because that's how Yanukovych got his position.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/08/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine
-president-election

Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair
• Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat
• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy


I haven't even started to read the posts from this morning. This was the first. And I'm not going to continue. You're as ignorant and partisan as they come- you might even give rappy a run for the money if you keep it up.

So, I'm not going to stick around for a reply, but I'll give you a word of advice (not that you'll take it, rappy didn't when he started down his delusional path either btw) --- treat the 'news' you now accept as true as if it was an ad for a $105,000 car. Yanno, with a healthy dose of skepticism. Check out international news sources. keep track of what they say one day versus the next. It doesn't take a whole lot (though it's far more than you've been managing, it seems) to catch them in inconsistencies and gaps.

Anyway, I have truly more important things to do than educate a someone with self-inflicted ignorance.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."



Great, because according to you, once a country has a democratic election and has a piece of paper called a constitution the people can not rise up and overthrow the government, even if the government in place stops representing the people and doesn't abide by it. It is against the law. That is your argument and it is crap. Nothing biased or incorrect about that.

Funny how you see biased in what I write and not in the title of this thread, or its opening and ensuing remarks?

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"if the government in place stops representing the people"

What's wrong with having a democratic election to decide if they want a new government - so that ALL people - not just the people with guns - can have their say?

I agree with Signy - you're REALLY not for democracy. In fact, you're against it. You CHOOSE government by armed groups in a coup, even when a democratic process is in place.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:45 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Not even close, I am on the side of democracy. You forget, that is America. It is Russia that is not a democracy. The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government. Just like Russia. Which suggests you believe in what Russia believes in and not what the United States is trying to do by helping.

In a democracy the people rule. If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out. This happens if the government doesn't abide by the will of the people and constitution.

This is what happened in the Ukraine. How about you two spend some time criticizing Russia in its role in all of this and prove me wrong. There have been many posts criticizing America, NATO, and the EU.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I am on the side of democracy."

Then find me ONE of your posts where you supported early elections as a democratic solution to the problem of Yanukovych. Just one.

"The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government."

What I've been championing is democracy. Government through the process of election, not coup.

"If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out."

Yes, ALL the people COULD have had a chance to vote and decide. But that's not good enough for you.

Anyway, by your bad English I presume you're a plant.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You forget, that is America.
Oh, you mean an oligarchy?

So, by your logic... would you favor a revolution in the USA?

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You don't believe in democracy or freedom, MIKER, you believe in capitalism.



They're one in the same, actually.

And far better at helping the poor than socialism ever was or will be.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:05 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I am on the side of democracy."

Then find me ONE of your posts where you supported early elections as a democratic solution to the problem of Yanukovych. Just one.

"The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government."

What I've been championing is democracy. Government through the process of election, not coup.

"If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out."

Yes, ALL the people COULD have had a chance to vote and decide. But that's not good enough for you.

Anyway, by your bad English I presume you're a plant.



<

I can't, you see I understand there was no way to pull that off. If it could have been done I would have been all for it. The problem is trying to have an election in the middle of a revolution. Can't be done.

As for my bad English O well, I guess I will have to stand on the strength of my speaking prose. Look it up.

Also I don't like the way you intertwine what you are saying with what I am saying. Let my words stand alone please as I do yours.

I would add it is stupid to have the same logos pop up in serious talks over and over again. It is kind of childish, don't you think?

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:32 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You forget, that is America.
Oh, you mean an oligarchy?

So, by your logic... would you favor a revolution in the USA?



Yes, yes, I agree with you on this. Again I offer my link: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/20/oxfam-85-richest-peopl
e-half-of-the-world


The University of, I can't remember just came out with a research paper on this confirming what you say. However we can't revolt because it is against the law.

This is also not the topic of the thread.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:43 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity





AUTHOR: Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”


http://www.bartleby.com/73/1593.html




Off topic but what the hell.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 3:02 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52-
Quote:

Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.
MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.

So, to clarify, the whole world is NOT in "his side", specifically ... out of

193 member states
100 voted for
93 either voted against, abstained, or didn't vote.

In other words, it was 50/50. Which is what I said. So YOU better go a recalculate what YOU think of as 50/50, because the facts don't back you up, either.

OF the 93 nations which either voted no, abstained, or didn't vote, I find these interesting-
BRAZIL, CHINA, EGYPT, INDIA, PAKISTAN (India and Pakistan on the same side?), SOUTH AFRICA, IRAN, ISRAEL (Israel and Iran on the same side? I think Israel just doesn't like Neo-Nazis), OMAN and UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (you would think oil payments would be the tie that binds).

You can find the vote tally here
http://unbisnet.un.org:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?profile=voting&index=.
VM&term=ares68262


AFA Yanukovich "abandoning" his post, he stated FROM THE UKRAINE that he hadn't abandoned his post. And there is nothing that I could find in the Constitution about "abandon", "unable" (as in, "unable to perform duties") or anything else, so if you could please reference the subsection which allows such an action by the Rada, I would appreciate it.

Do you really fear the ignorance of man? Maybe what you should really fear is the "rationalizing" man... a person who twists facts to suit his or her own purposes.



You said...

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
And this is where I replied that you should recalibrate what you think of as "the whole world" since China, India, Brazil, and more than half of the remainder of the world's nations either voted against the USA or abstained in the UN.



More than half is what you said, and it turns out it was not even half. Plus non-votes does not mean they did not agree.

As for Parliaments actions I would think they fall under this...

Article 91.
Supreme Soviet of Ukraine passes acts, decisions and other acts by majority from its constitutional composition, except for the cases foreseen by this
Constitution.

The Ukraine Constitution did not foresee the position the Parliament found themselves in and thus had the power to act.

I never figured you would be defending a person whom used lethal force against protesters. You dislike for the US government and the IMF has put you in a strange place.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, May 4, 2014 3:07 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52-
Quote:

Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.
MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.




Miker
I care about the thread topic. How about you give that a look see OK?

I am interested in your opinion about that. QUOTE: SIGMYM "It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia. This is the opening statement from the person who started the thread. Let's here from you on this, I am looking forward to it.

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