REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

America’s Middle Class Now Officially POORER Than Canada’s

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2014 12:39
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Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The American middle class, long the most affluent in the world, has lost that distinction.

While the wealthiest Americans are outpacing many of their global peers, a New York Times analysis shows that across the lower- and middle-income tiers, citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades.

After-tax middle-class incomes in Canada — substantially behind in 2000 — now appear to be higher than in the United States. The poor in much of Europe earn more than poor Americans.

The numbers, based on surveys conducted over the past 35 years, offer some of the most detailed publicly available comparisons for different income groups in different countries over time. They suggest that most American families are paying a steep price for high and rising income inequality.

Although economic growth in the United States continues to be as strong as in many other countries, or stronger, a small percentage of American households is fully benefiting from it. Median income in Canada pulled into a tie with median United States income in 2010 and has most likely surpassed it since then. Median incomes in Western European countries still trail those in the United States, but the gap in several — including Britain, the Netherlands and Sweden — is much smaller than it was a decade ago.

In European countries hit hardest by recent financial crises, such as Greece and Portugal, incomes have of course fallen sharply in recent years.

The income data were compiled by LIS, a group that maintains the Luxembourg Income Study Database. The numbers were analyzed by researchers at LIS and by The Upshot, a New York Times website covering policy and politics, and reviewed by outside academic economists.

The struggles of the poor in the United States are even starker than those of the middle class. A family at the 20th percentile of the income distribution in this country makes significantly less money than a similar family in Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland or the Netherlands. Thirty-five years ago, the reverse was true.

LIS counts after-tax cash income from salaries, interest and stock dividends, among other sources, as well as direct government benefits such as tax credits.

The findings are striking because the most commonly cited economic statistics — such as per capita gross domestic product — continue to show that the United States has maintained its lead as the world’s richest large country. But those numbers are averages, which do not capture the distribution of income. With a big share of recent income gains in this country flowing to a relatively small slice of high-earning households, most Americans are not keeping pace with their counterparts around the world.

“The idea that the median American has so much more income than the middle class in all other parts of the world is not true these days,” said Lawrence Katz, a Harvard economist who is not associated with LIS. “In 1960, we were massively richer than anyone else. In 1980, we were richer. In the 1990s, we were still richer.”

That is no longer the case, Professor Katz added.

Median per capita income was $18,700 in the United States in 2010 (which translates to about $75,000 for a family of four after taxes), up 20 percent since 1980 but virtually unchanged since 2000, after adjusting for inflation. The same measure, by comparison, rose about 20 percent in Britain between 2000 and 2010 and 14 percent in the Netherlands. Median income also rose 20 percent in Canada between 2000 and 2010, to the equivalent of $18,700.

The most recent year in the LIS analysis is 2010. But other income surveys, conducted by government agencies, suggest that since 2010 pay in Canada has risen faster than pay in the United States and is now most likely higher. Pay in several European countries has also risen faster since 2010 than it has in the United States.

Three broad factors appear to be driving much of the weak income performance in the United States. First, educational attainment in the United States has risen far more slowly than in much of the industrialized world over the last three decades, making it harder for the American economy to maintain its share of highly skilled, well-paying jobs.

Americans between the ages of 55 and 65 have literacy, numeracy and technology skills that are above average relative to 55- to 65-year-olds in rest of the industrialized world, according to a recent study by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, an international group. Younger Americans, though, are not keeping pace: Those between 16 and 24 rank near the bottom among rich countries, well behind their counterparts in Canada, Australia, Japan and Scandinavia and close to those in Italy and Spain.

A second factor is that companies in the United States economy distribute a smaller share of their bounty to the middle class and poor than similar companies elsewhere. Top executives make substantially more money in the United States than in other wealthy countries. The minimum wage is lower. Labor unions are weaker.

And because the total bounty produced by the American economy has not been growing substantially faster here in recent decades than in Canada or Western Europe, most American workers are left receiving meager raises. Lots more, plus charts and links at http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-
no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Obama's " Mission Acvomplished ".

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:32 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama's " Mission Acvomplished ".





Say what? This stuff has to be put in place before it begins. That was during the last admin. It is called Tax breaks for the rich. Along with Tax loop holes that benefit them as well.

Let's say I decide to open an office in a tax haven overseas. I call it my headquarters and then divert my profits to that shell headquarters and wait till I get a tax break to bring the money back into the country. This way I avoid paying taxes on that money here. That is a very simple way to describe what companies are doing.

Every thing since around 1970 has been shifting to a very one sided economy.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The rich getting tax breaks has no bearing on how much the middle class make.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:38 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The rich getting tax breaks has no bearing on how much the middle class make.



There is no real benefit in giving them tax breaks either, it would appear.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:41 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The rich getting tax breaks has no bearing on how much the middle class make.



This will show you where it has gone. If you don't trust the site you can read a version of this story at the Bloomberg news.

http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/top-1-of-worlds-richest-own
-65-times-more-than-worlds-poorest-50-the-85-richest-people-own-more-than-half-of-world
/


Top 1% Of World’s Richest Own 65 Times More Than World’s Poorest 50%, The 85 Richest People Own More Than Half Of World

January 21, 2014






















1 Votes



Ponder the headline.

It is just a fact that is unacceptable.

A new Oxfam report entitled Working for the Few (PDF), documents a “power grab” by the world’s wealthy super-elite, who have amassed astonishing assets while the rest of the world grew poorer. Not only do the top 1% of the world’s richest own 65 times more than the world’s poorest 50%, but the 85 richest people own more than half the world. Oxfam is clear that this wealth expansion at the top is the result of a horribly corrupt political process by which elected representatives end up making policies to enrich the already-wealthy.

They’re at Davos this week, asking the world’s elites to pledge support for progressive taxation; an end to tax-avoidance; an end to financial corruption of legislation and policy; transparency in their own fortunes; universal healthcare, education and social protection; and a living wage for all.


The Oxfam report found that over the past few decades, the rich have successfully wielded political influence to skew policies in their favour on issues ranging from financial deregulation, tax havens, anti-competitive business practices to lower tax rates on high incomes and cuts in public services for the majority. Since the late 1970s, tax rates for the richest have fallen in 29 out of 30 countries for which data are available, said the report.

This “capture of opportunities” by the rich at the expense of the poor and middle classes has led to a situation where 70% of the world’s population live in countries where inequality has increased since the 1980s and 1% of families own 46% of global wealth – almost £70tn.

Opinion polls in Spain, Brazil, India, South Africa, the US, UK and Netherlands found that a majority in each country believe that wealthy people exert too much influence. Concern was strongest in Spain, followed by Brazil and India and least marked in the Netherlands.

In the UK, some 67% agreed that “the rich have too much influence over where this country is headed” – 37% saying that they agreed “strongly” with the statement – against just 10% who disagreed, 2% of them strongly.


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


It's much easier to whine and complain like little bitches about other people's wealth than to actually strive to attain it for yourself.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:12 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's much easier to whine and complain like little bitches about other people's wealth than to actually strive to attain it for yourself.



No wining in the report, just facts. The only whining is coming from you in defending what has been transpiring since 1980 and even before. Not with facts but with a whine.

The fact that the middle class has been in decline since 1970 is well established. Where the money is going is a well established fact. To many get caught up in whining about who is to cause. I would suggest that since the top .01% is getting it all that they are responsible.

Makes sense to me.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:51 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


It is incredible to me how I am at a Firefly fan site and post a research report that even the Bloomberg News does not dispute and runs itself, and many of you are still arguing on a level of, its the Democrats fault no it’s the Republicans in much of the threads posted.

How the Alliance (corporate control) came to be is in this report. Read it.

This is how the corporate ( alliance )world gains control and both parties are to fault. This is that future you hate taking place right before your eyes and so many of you are blind to it because you are caught up in your personal Ideologies. It is you spewing out the spin you were severed up at Fox News or some political contributors at MSNBC, to name two. No spin, just the facts.

WAKE UP!

OK, I am ready. Start the execution.


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:10 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Princeton Concludes What Kind of Government America Really Has, and It's Not a Democracy


http://www.policymic.com/articles/87719/princeton-concludes-what-kind-
of-government-america-really-has-and-it-s-not-a-democracy

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mikers, I can save you a lot of time. Essentially: Don't bother. With several people here--Rap on top of the list--they live, think, breathe in their own little bubble; no thought is EVER necessary, just "it's all The Left's fault". No amount of facts, figures, graphs, links or authoritative cites will ever make a dent.

It's why I'm not here much anymore. Why waste the time? Eventually almost everybody gets tired of


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:30 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Mikers, I can save you a lot of time. Essentially: Don't bother. With several people here--Rap on top of the list--they live, think, breathe in their own little bubble; no thought is EVER necessary, just "it's all The Left's fault". No amount of facts, figures, graphs, links or authoritative cites will ever make a dent.

It's why I'm not here much anymore. Why waste the time? Eventually almost everybody gets tired of




Yeah I get that. I watched as they talked amongst themselves and tried to put me into a category (box) so they would know how to respond to me. Hostel or friendly, left or right. To have varying opinions is to be schizophrenic, to misspell words is a sign of ignorance about the topic? Talk about sock puppets......... I have no eyes yet I still see.

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear".

Thomas Jefferson

I am beginning to believe the RWDT is no place for me.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:35 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:


The fact that the middle class has been in decline since 1970 is a well established fact. Where the money is going is a well established fact. To many get caught up in whining about who is to cause. I would suggest that since the top .01% is getting it all that they are responsible.




Keep in mond, you are trying to talk to someone openly hostile to facts.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

Americans killed under Obama due to "intelligence failures": 4

Americans killed under Bush due to "intelligence failures": 7000+

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:16 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Yep. look how they don't respond to this thread. That will change when the thread can be turned into a character assassination, or they will let it pass by entirely.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 1:01 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Yep. look how they don't respond to this thread. That will change when the thread can be turned into a character assassination, or they will let it pass by entirely.



The silence speaks volumes.

I am done here.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 1:19 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Yep. look how they don't respond to this thread. That will change when the thread can be turned into a character assassination, or they will let it pass by entirely.



Hate is pulling their strings.



I would say not all but still, you are wise sir.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:37 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Bumppa de bump, bump.

blessedness was only seen by flying

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:57 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's much easier to whine and complain like little bitches about other people's wealth than to actually strive to attain it for yourself.


Do you not feel that America's greatness was built on a strong middle class? (And to counter your knee-jerk 'blame Obama!' reflex, middle class wages have been stagnating since the 70s). Does America's current slide in the direction of oligarchy bother you? Do you see it as inevitable, and that we should just let it happen? Is that the kind of America you want to live in?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Yeah I get that. I watched as they talked amongst themselves and tried to put me into a category (box) so they would know how to respond to me. Hostel or friendly, left or right. To have varying opinions is to be schizophrenic, to misspell words is a sign of ignorance about the topic?


Okay, you've about got it. As to "I am beginning to believe the RWDT is no place for me", I really hate to say it, 'cuz new voices are lovely and people who can communicate intelligently are REALLY lovely, but you're probably right. Used to be lots and lots of people here...now it's down to just a few of us die hards who seem to have some kind of compulsion of continuing to come here periodically, don't ask me why because I couldn't say. I used to spend HOURS here, posting facts, figures, cites, trying to have conversations, 'cuz I love communication and debate...now I pop in every morning at the same time as a few other (mostly husky/urban mushing/book swap) cites I follow, and generally pause when I get the urge to respond to something, think "why bother?!" and go away. It's pretty much an exercise in futility...which is sad.


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Friday, May 9, 2014 10:53 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Yeah I get that. I watched as they talked amongst themselves and tried to put me into a category (box) so they would know how to respond to me. Hostel or friendly, left or right. To have varying opinions is to be schizophrenic, to misspell words is a sign of ignorance about the topic?


Okay, you've about got it. As to "I am beginning to believe the RWDT is no place for me", I really hate to say it, 'cuz new voices are lovely and people who can communicate intelligently are REALLY lovely, but you're probably right. Used to be lots and lots of people here...now it's down to just a few of us die hards who seem to have some kind of compulsion of continuing to come here periodically, don't ask me why because I couldn't say. I used to spend HOURS here, posting facts, figures, cites, trying to have conversations, 'cuz I love communication and debate...now I pop in every morning at the same time as a few other (mostly husky/urban mushing/book swap) cites I follow, and generally pause when I get the urge to respond to something, think "why bother?!" and go away. It's pretty much an exercise in futility...which is sad.




These threads are full of those kids no one wants to play with. The ones that ruin it for everyone else. That is why the voice of reason as you say has moved on. I, knowing I am quite often wrong, was disappointed to see no one else who posts here regularly ever is. I do not want to cast aspersions on all. Some are Ideological and can't be swayed with fact. With them; it is as though to disagree makes you the enemy. Some are really sick and a few just like to debate. A few stick their toe in the water who seem quite reasonable, they then quickly move on. For me, I think feeling the way I do, to continue to post here more than sparingly; would suggest to me I am not too mentally healthy. You will here very little from me on these threads in the future. If at all.



blessedness was only seen by flying

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Friday, May 9, 2014 12:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I certainly can't blame you. I have no excuse for continuing here; because I'm semi-disabled, my life is pretty circumscribed, and I met a few people here whom I've come to respect and admire, so somehow I just keep coming back. I don't know why, but at least I don't spend much time here anymore, eventually no doubt I will disappear like all the others have.

I guess the worst of it for me is the complete lack of logic; despite the fact that there isn't a single person here who thinks Obama is anything great, to our righties, he is our "God"; despite everyone here have unanimously agreed Obamacare is no more than a flawed first step, to our righties it's our "religion"...it just ceases having any meaning in the real world.

It was nice meeting you; if I don't see you again, I'll understand why.


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Friday, May 9, 2014 12:37 PM

JONGSSTRAW



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Friday, May 9, 2014 12:39 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



In joining a forum discussion at times we will be met by clowns, buffoons and illiterates. It may become necessary in some cases to not directly, but instead indirectly address a post and then let it pass. This has become necessary with the last and perhaps the next post directed my way or about me. Please bear witness I elect not to indulge the aforementioned clown, buffoon and or Illiterate beyond this point instead choosing to it let pass.


blessedness was only seen by flying

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