REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Errr, ummm, guys... wanna concentrate on the BIG issues? No?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, May 18, 2014 14:20
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Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:24 PM

CHRISISALL


Obama = Drones (bad for innocent civilians & our world rep).
Obama = TPP (bad for the U.S. economy).
Obama = Keystone (bad for the waterways & lands of America).
Obama = Hypocrite (climate change very bad! But no substantive massive push on solar or wind tech, eh?)

There's plenty to work with without spamming every little bit of nonsense.
I mean, if he gets a blowjob in the White House or uses the phrase "Go ahead, make my day!" on TV should we really forget about & be distracted from what ACTUALLY affects the lives of thousands & millions?

Just a thought.

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Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sorry to say, but a lot of people would rather pay attention to what Obama/Hillary/Bush say, as opposed to what they do. Reality shall not intrude.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:24 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Obama = Drones (bad for innocent civilians & our world rep).
Obama = TPP (bad for the U.S. economy).
Obama = Keystone (bad for the waterways & lands of America).
Obama = Hypocrite (climate change very bad! But no substantive massive push on solar or wind tech, eh?)

There's plenty to work with without spamming every little bit of nonsense.
I mean, if he gets a blowjob in the White House or uses the phrase "Go ahead, make my day!" on TV should we really forget about & be distracted from what ACTUALLY affects the lives of thousands & millions?

Just a thought.



Drones, good or bad is all in how they are used.

TPP, is still being discussed and would still need to be passed by congess.

Keystone, not yet passed if it will be at all.

Climate Change, Obama has been talking about it and pushing, however he does not control the purse strings.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 10:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nope... don't even know much about anything you mentioned here Chris. Don't know much about the man at all, professional or personal.

I don't even know what validity my opinion has at all about anything I used to think I know when I did pay attention to everything.

Everyone here as long as you remembers what I thought about GWB. As bad as I believed he was for this country, the best two jobs I ever had were during his tenure. The first was when I was 19 years old and Bill Clinton was still in for a few months. That job lasted about 2 years and netted me about 85k back in the days when I could have bought about 95,000 gallons of gasoline with that money. The second was when I was 24 and lasted about 5 years and netted an amount that is embarrassing given my current situation. I almost made it to 2010, but was cut just 3 weeks before I would have gotten an additional 2 weeks of severance pay.

Since January 1st of 2010 up until today, not including unemployment, I have made about 22 thousand dollars. Including unemployment, the number would be more like 55k.

It's all my fault, I'm sure. Just funny about the timing is all.

I do know that when I got that first great job when I was 20 I went to a temp agency that specifically staffed office type positions. I lucked into that awesome job the very next day, and by the end of the week had two other higher offers. I stuck around because it just felt right and I nearly doubled my first years pay the 2nd year with all the overtime.

They don't even have any Office Staffing Agencies anywhere around here these days. If I feel like waiting outside the door at 4:30 in front of Manpower like I'm camping out to be the first kid outside of walmart to get a new video game, I would probably be the one to get the 2-3 day menial crap job I wouldn't have gotten if I showed up at 8:30.

We didn't start the fire... I get it.

I'm not blaming any of this on Obama. I'm just saying that it's probably just a coincidence that things have been less than ideal for me during his tenure.

Actually, I really love not knowing or having to even form an opinion about what's REALLY going on today. I don't care. I got my own shit to deal with, and that's enough food on this plate. I never leave a favor un-returned, and I never buy something I can't pay cash for.

Those are the only two rules I live by these days.

I might not have 2,000 Facebook friends, but the few friends that I do have are mighty reliable and valued.

No wonder everything is broken everywhere. Your brains are all broke.

You think way too much, and Ya'all just got way too much shit going on at one time, Cuz....

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:28 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Obama = Drones (bad for innocent civilians & our world rep).
Obama = TPP (bad for the U.S. economy).



Drones, as in extrajudicial killings with plenty of "collatoral damage"? Yeah, they totally are bad for your world rep. I can confirm that, from my corner of the world.

TPP = I have never heard a single regular person, either side of the Atlantic, say anything positive about this. Granted, I don't know all Europeans, but the ones I know just hate the idea. Is there anyone pushing for this beside, say, Monsanto?


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Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Drones, good or bad is all in how they are used.
And a President sitting in the WH with a "kill list" that includes American citizens... clearly, an optimal use! (If drones weren't being used in such a fashion, it wouldn't have come up at all) And we are hated everywhere in the world, BTW.


Quote:

TPP, is still being discussed and would still need to be passed by congess.
Except that Obama has been pushing for "fast track" to avoid Congressional debate. So, we can put Obama in the corner of fighting the bad fight. Also, have you heard of TTIP? Same thing, Atlantic version. Obama is trying to do the same thing. If it wasn't for Congress, we'd be subject to these by now.



Quote:

Keystone, not yet passed if it will be at all.
Doesn't require passage, it only requires evaluation by the State Department (not the EPA. Thanks Hillary!) and a signature.

Quote:

Climate Change, Obama has been talking about it and pushing, however he does not control the purse strings.
If he can destroy Libya, funnel arms and intel to jihadists in Syria, and bail out banks to the tune of $3-17 Trillion dollars, why can't he handle climate change?

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


AGENT
Quote:

Is there anyone pushing for this beside, say, Monsanto?
Obama. Because, since we don't manufacture anything anymore, the only two thing we can extort money from are (1) our loans and (2) ideas. So you can add - software companies, and tech companies like Apple (all production is in China), the entertainment industry, big pharma, biotech including Syngenta and the other big GMO companies.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:01 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If he can destroy Libya, funnel arms and intel to jihadists in Syria, and bail out banks to the tune of $3-17 Trillion dollars, why can't he handle climate change?

Tending to Climate Change issues is dangerous & expensive.


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Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:16 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Obama = Drones (bad for innocent civilians & our world rep).
Obama = TPP (bad for the U.S. economy).
Obama = Keystone (bad for the waterways & lands of America).
Obama = Hypocrite (climate change very bad! But no substantive massive push on solar or wind tech, eh?)


DRONES - Better than using troops.

KEYSTONE - The oil is coming one way or another. If you don't want a pipeline, then you can wave to the oil as it passes by in railway tank cars.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:20 PM

CHRISISALL


Jongs, we all know you love Obama, but do you need to demonstrate it ALL THE TIME? Don't defend that jerk.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:26 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
AGENT
Quote:

Is there anyone pushing for this beside, say, Monsanto?
Obama. Because, since we don't manufacture anything anymore, the only two thing we can extort money from are (1) our loans and (2) ideas. So you can add - software companies, and tech companies like Apple (all production is in China), the entertainment industry, big pharma, biotech including Syngenta and the other big GMO companies.



Ugh. Another reason to dislike the guy.

Also: *dope slap to self* I was actually being immensely stupid and confused it with the transatlantic version, TTIP or TAFTA. That's the one Europeans hate. TPP is barely a blip on the radar, but I can imagine it's about as popular.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:35 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Jongs, we all know you love Obama, but do you need to demonstrate it ALL THE TIME? Don't defend that jerk.


"We"? You must be a colony creature ... something akin to a Cyrano Jones genetically engineered "safe" tribble. Fortunately I have a spare glommer.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 1:19 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
TPP is barely a blip on the radar, but I can imagine it's about as popular.

Blips on the radar usually mean you're about to get hit with somethin'.

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 1:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"TPP is barely a blip on the radar, but I can imagine it's about as popular."

Here in the US? 'Shirley' you jest. Except for the small sub-faction of privacy and rights advocates, people in the US give it the BBBIIIIGGGgggg yawn.

https://www.google.com/#q=tpp+fast+track
EFF, Huff post (liberals), Sierra Club, AFL-CIO, ACLU - the usual liberal and union suspects seem to be against it. The TeaPatsy? https://www.google.com/#q=tpp+fast+track+tea+party supposedly against fast track but not a big internet or popular presence.

Now, many of these are opposing fast-track. That's a vital first step. But ASSUMING fast track is derailed, once it comes up in congress for REGULAR debate and voting - we'll see how groups divvy-up. I expect it to fall into the usual pro-business republican/teaparty and conservative/big business democrats on one side, and the very very few democrats who actually give a fuck about the 99% on the other.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

KEYSTONE - The oil is coming one way or another. If you don't want a pipeline, then you can wave to the oil as it passes by in railway tank cars.



warren buffet says the pipeline would benefit the US, but his $ says the opposite.



Interestingly, another billionaire, Obama economic inspiration Warren Buffett, stands to benefit from the Keystone XL pipeline delay.

As oil production ramps up in the Bakken fields of North Dakota, plans to use the pipeline to transport it have been dashed.

As a result, North Dakota’s booming oil producers will have to rely even more on the Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) railroad, which Buffett just bought, to ship it to refineries.

Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway has agreed to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe in a deal valuing the railroad at $34 billion. Berkshire Hathaway already owns about 22% of Burlington Northern, and will pay $100 a share in cash and stock for the rest of the company.

http://politicalarena.org/2012/01/23/george-soros-and-warren-buffet-be
nefited-from-obama-keystone-pipeline-veto
/


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Friday, May 16, 2014 9:06 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And a President sitting in the WH with a "kill list" that includes American citizens... clearly, an optimal use! (If drones weren't being used in such a fashion, it wouldn't have come up at all) And we are hated everywhere in the world, BTW.



Everywere? Including the countries that like us using those drones to kill insurgent groups in their countries?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Except that Obama has been pushing for "fast track" to avoid Congressional debate. So, we can put Obama in the corner of fighting the bad fight. Also, have you heard of TTIP? Same thing, Atlantic version. Obama is trying to do the same thing. If it wasn't for Congress, we'd be subject to these by now.



One you should know that every free trade agreement that has been does has been done through the fast track. Second the fact track is requires both the House and Senate to pass the agreement, only they are not allowed to make changes.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Doesn't require passage, it only requires evaluation by the State Department (not the EPA. Thanks Hillary!) and a signature.



Requiring approval from the the State Department has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. Regardless if the pipline is approved or not the tar sands are going to be developed and the oil is going to move through the US. If not by pipeline by rail.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If he can destroy Libya, funnel arms and intel to jihadists in Syria, and bail out banks to the tune of $3-17 Trillion dollars, why can't he handle climate change?



The US did not destroy Libya. We are arming rebals in Syria, and did bail out he banks to keep the economy form dying.

Why not climate change. Well lets see, the NATO support in Libya was bcause we are a member of NATO and the President commands the military, no approval from congress needed. The other two well they are supported by congress. Climate change, the President need congress to move on any thing substantial. Who controls the House again?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, May 16, 2014 10:35 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And a President sitting in the WH with a "kill list" that includes American citizens... clearly, an optimal use! (If drones weren't being used in such a fashion, it wouldn't have come up at all) And we are hated everywhere in the world, BTW.



Everywere? Including the countries that like us using those drones to kill insurgent groups in their countries?



Just how many whole countries approve of that? I would buy some governments agreeing to let insurgents (and any civilians in the vicinity) be killed in extrajudicial ways by drones, but you'll probably find a diversity of opinion among the actual population of pretty much any such country.

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Friday, May 16, 2014 11:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52

Quote:

And a President sitting in the WH with a "kill list" that includes American citizens... clearly, an optimal use! (If drones weren't being used in such a fashion, it wouldn't have come up at all) And we are hated everywhere in the world, BTW. -SIGNY

Everywere? Including the countries that like us using those drones to kill insurgent groups in their countries? -M52

I second what AR said. People hate us for using drones. Absolutely hate us. By international poll, more people in the world (by a large percentage) think of AMERICA as the largest threat to peace and stability.

Also, it absolutely violates the Constitution when Obama uses drones on American citizens (which he did, bypassing all those amendments requiring formal charges and a trial by a jury of your peers. Or as GWB said The Constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper. Right, M52?) and skirts the sole authority of Congress to declare war.

Quote:

Except that Obama has been pushing for "fast track" to avoid Congressional debate. So, we can put Obama in the corner of fighting the bad fight. Also, have you heard of TTIP? Same thing, Atlantic version. Obama is trying to do the same thing. If it wasn't for Congress, we'd be subject to these by now. -SIGNY

One you should know that every free trade agreement that has been does has been done through the fast track. Second the fact track is requires both the House and Senate to pass the agreement, only they are not allowed to make changes. -M52



Yes, but WHY is Obama pushing for free trade agreements that will hurt Americans? Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean that it's good for us, or that this particular political tactic is honest. And, again- WHY is Obama pushing for free trade pacts that will just hurt us average people? He's choosing this tactic because he knows free trade agreements are wildly unpopular, and yet he's intent on shoving this down our collective throats?

Yanno, Bill Clinton did the same thing with NAFTA, and it turned out just as awful as everyone said it would be: 700,000 jobs lost, and people impoverished on both side of the border. I didn't forgive Clinton for being an ass and a quisling then, and I don't forgive Obama now.

Quote:

Requiring approval from the the State Department has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. Regardless if the pipline is approved or not the tar sands are going to be developed and the oil is going to move through the US. If not by pipeline by rail.
The whole process merely shows how corrupt our government is, because the State Department doesn't have the technical expertise to evaluate EITHER the economic OR the environmental impacts of pipeline development. The EPA is the technical expert on environmental affairs. I don't think there is a cabinet-level equivalent for economic policy (but there should be) but maybe the CBO could weigh in.

In any case, Canadians are planning to ship their oil west to the Pacific coast, which is where it would have wound up anyway, because the endpoint of the pipeline (the Houston area) would simply refine it and ship it abroad.

Quote:

If he can destroy Libya, funnel arms and intel to jihadists in Syria, and bail out banks to the tune of $3-17 Trillion dollars, why can't he handle climate change?- SIGNY

The US did not destroy Libya. We are arming rebals in Syria, and did bail out he banks to keep the economy form dying.

Again, please check your facts before posting. Obama did much more than supply arms to jihadists in Libya, he had Libya BOMBED. Okay? The USA was part of a multi-force (USA, UK, France) military strike which destroyed large parts of Libya under the guise of enforcing a no-fly zone.

On the first day
Quote:

Pentagon officials say the US and the UK have fired more than 110 missiles, while French planes struck pro-Gaddafi forces attacking rebel-held Benghazi.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

And Obama was going to do the same to Syria. If it hadn't been for that rather impressive fleet of Russian warships and aircraft-carrier destroyers off the coast of Syria, we would have gone whole-hog into bombing Syria too. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that it was that Russian fleet in the eastern Mediterranean (coming from the Sevastopol naval base) that put Ukraine back on the front burner.

Quote:

and did bail out he banks to keep the economy form dying.
Despite 80% of the people being against it, and the House voting against it. Not much democracy going on over in Washington. American is truly an oligarchy! The rich always get their way, the average person... not so much!

Quote:

Climate change, the President need congress to move on any thing substantial. Who controls the House again?
And yet, the banks were bailed out without Congress and without popular support. Not much democracy going on in the WH! (Oh, and shall I bring up universal warrantless wiretapping?)

M52, I know you're a nice guy. Your heart's in the right place. But you keep looking for reasons to forgive the unforgivable. Presidents as far back as JFK- which is as far back as I can remember- routinely stab Americans in the back; it doesn't seem to matter whether they were Democrats or Republicans. But it seems to have gotten much worse lately, including Obama's two terms.

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Friday, May 16, 2014 11:59 AM

CHRISISALL


And here's Signy, schooling us all once more. Thank you.
*leaves virtual apple on her virtual desk*

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Friday, May 16, 2014 12:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yanno, I think I see a difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Democrats offer ONE THING to the American people, and they talk a good game. Then, they screw the American people over in a couple of dozen OTHER ways:

Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton raised the minimum wage but brought us NAFTA, DMCA, DOMA, welfare "reform", repealing Glass Steagal (which propelled the financial meltdown through FDIC banks), and signing the Commodities Futures Reform Act (which brought us Enron).

Barrack "Hope and change" Obama brought us Obamacare (itself an equivocal 'benefit'), but instituted surveillance on all Americans, continued the bank bailouts started by Bush, destabilized/destroyed three more nations and subverted the Constitution, and has signed (and is pushing for more) free trade agreements that only benefit the rich.

These pennies tossed to the American public provide a rational for continued public support, and a cover for the inexorable, massive crushing of the average person.

Republicans appeal to those who believe that self-flagellation is the way forward. They just screw people, with no cover at all. At least they're honest and cause less confusion among voters.


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Friday, May 16, 2014 2:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh yeah, I am reallll sure that TPP/Keystone pipeline idea is very popular today....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/50000-gallons-oil-spills-los-angele
s-street-23727175

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/15/los-angeles-oil-s
pill/9114619
/

Or perhaps not, hmm ?

Tis one thing to argue theory, tis another to stare facefirst into the inevitable consequences of such actions - given the lack of respect for basic safety procedures and even minimal maintanence and upkeep which such companies are notorious for.

-F

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Friday, May 16, 2014 2:18 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I second what AR said. People hate us for using drones. Absolutely hate us. By international poll, more people in the world (by a large percentage) think of AMERICA as the largest threat to peace and stability.

Also, it absolutely violates the Constitution when Obama uses drones on American citizens (which he did, bypassing all those amendments requiring formal charges and a trial by a jury of your peers. Or as GWB said The Constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper. Right, M52?) and skirts the sole authority of Congress to declare war.



The rest of the world hates us, well good for them. When I was talking about the countries liking us using Drones I was talking about those countries governments.

As for the US citizens over seas helping groups like Al-Qaeda not enough people care that it violates their rights because they are seen as traitors and you are not going to get enforcement over those actions.

There is also a debate on how much authority the President has as commander and cheif compared with the Congress right to declare war.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yes, but WHY is Obama pushing for free trade agreements that will hurt Americans? Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean that it's good for us, or that this particular political tactic is honest. And, again- WHY is Obama pushing for free trade pacts that will just hurt us average people? He's choosing this tactic because he knows free trade agreements are wildly unpopular, and yet he's intent on shoving this down our collective throats?

Yanno, Bill Clinton did the same thing with NAFTA, and it turned out just as awful as everyone said it would be: 700,000 jobs lost, and people impoverished on both side of the border. I didn't forgive Clinton for being an ass and a quisling then, and I don't forgive Obama now.



You know it will hurt Americans, funny since the final detals have not be announced. Plus the criticism of NAFTA has been far over stated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lauraweiss/part-1-20-years-later-nafta_b
_5319710.html


http://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790#p3


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The whole process merely shows how corrupt our government is, because the State Department doesn't have the technical expertise to evaluate EITHER the economic OR the environmental impacts of pipeline development. The EPA is the technical expert on environmental affairs. I don't think there is a cabinet-level equivalent for economic policy (but there should be) but maybe the CBO could weigh in.

In any case, Canadians are planning to ship their oil west to the Pacific coast, which is where it would have wound up anyway, because the endpoint of the pipeline (the Houston area) would simply refine it and ship it abroad.



You do know the EPA get to weight in before the State Department makes a decision, and so does Congress, right?


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Again, please check your facts before posting. Obama did much more than supply arms to jihadists in Libya, he had Libya BOMBED. Okay? The USA was part of a multi-force (USA, UK, France) military strike which destroyed large parts of Libya under the guise of enforcing a no-fly zone.

On the first day
Quote:

Pentagon officials say the US and the UK have fired more than 110 missiles, while French planes struck pro-Gaddafi forces attacking rebel-held Benghazi.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

And Obama was going to do the same to Syria. If it hadn't been for that rather impressive fleet of Russian warships and aircraft-carrier destroyers off the coast of Syria, we would have gone whole-hog into bombing Syria too. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that it was that Russian fleet in the eastern Mediterranean (coming from the Sevastopol naval base) that put Ukraine back on the front burner.



Check what I wrote, I said he armed rebels in Syria. I know we took part in the NATO actions in Lybia. Those actions however did not destroy the country. You are right that having Russia involved in Syria stopped our involvment but we don't whole hog bomb anything anymore. Last time that happened was Vietnam. Tone down the rhetoric.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Despite 80% of the people being against it, and the House voting against it. Not much democracy going on over in Washington. American is truly an oligarchy! The rich always get their way, the average person... not so much!



The TARP program was approved by both Houses of Congress and done so under G.W. Bush. So it was not voted against by the House.

As far as 80% of people being against it, it is a good thing we have a representive democracy and not a direct one.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And yet, the banks were bailed out without Congress and without popular support. Not much democracy going on in the WH! (Oh, and shall I bring up universal warrantless wiretapping?)

M52, I know you're a nice guy. Your heart's in the right place. But you keep looking for reasons to forgive the unforgivable. Presidents as far back as JFK- which is as far back as I can remember- routinely stab Americans in the back; it doesn't seem to matter whether they were Democrats or Republicans. But it seems to have gotten much worse lately, including Obama's two terms.



I have no idea what you are talking about when it come to the bank bail out. It does seem that you just making a broader appeal here becaue you don't have a responce to what I said regarding climate change.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, May 16, 2014 2:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52, I will reply later.

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Friday, May 16, 2014 2:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What's amazing to me is that you didn't even name a Republican President in this Sigs...

I'm really starting to think that we're all much more like minded than we ever gave ourselves credit for.


I really am sorry that there was zero change and even less hope.


Like a few of us, I've been here damn near 11 years.



The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, May 16, 2014 3:11 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Oh yeah, I am reallll sure that TPP/Keystone pipeline idea is very popular today....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/50000-gallons-oil-spills-los-angele
s-street-23727175

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/15/los-angeles-oil-s
pill/9114619
/

Or perhaps not, hmm ?


-F



That's almost a justification for an Angelino to vote for it. Build the bloody thing from North Dakota to Texas, let them have the grief. T'ain't in my back yard.

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Sunday, May 18, 2014 2:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The US did not destroy Libya.


Yes, we did. PREVIOUSLY...

Quote:

[Libya] has had a high standard of living and a robust per capita daily caloric intake of 3144. The country has made strides in public health and, since 1980, child mortality rates have dropped from 70 per thousand live births to 19 in 2009. Life expectancy has risen from 61 to 74 years of age during the same span of years...

Public Health Care in Libya prior to NATO’s “Humanitarian Intervention” was the best in Africa. “Health care is [was] available to all citizens free of charge by the public sector. The country boasts the highest literacy and educational enrolment rates in North Africa. The Government is [was] substantially increasing the development budget for health services…. (WHO Libya Country Brief )

Confirmed by the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), undernourishment was less than 5 %, with a daily per capita calorie intake of 3144 calories. (FAO caloric intake figures indicate availability rather than consumption). The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya provided to its citizens what is denied to many Americans: Free public health care, free education, as confirmed by WHO and UNESCO data.

According to the World Health Organization (WHO): Life expectancy at birth was 72.3 years (2009), among the highest in the developing World.

Under 5 mortality rate per 1000 live births declined from 71 in 1991 to 14 in 2009
( http://www.who.int/countryfocus/cooperation_strategy/ccsbrief_lby_en.p
df
)

The pupil teacher ratio in Libya’s primary schools was of the order of 17 (1983 UNESCO data), 74% of school children graduating from primary school were enrolled in secondary school (1983 UNESCO data).

“In a relative short period of time, Libya achieved universal access for primary education, with 98% gross enrollment for secondary, and 46% for tertiary education. In the past decade, girls’ enrollment increased by 12% in all levels of education. In secondary and tertiary education, girls outnumbered boys by 10%.” (World Bank Libya Country Brief)



What has happened since?

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Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


CHRIS

It just occurred to me, I know what my typical failure is when considering the future. Normally, events come flying at me like stones (or like roses, rarely), smacking me from all directions...

Financial meltdown! SMACK!

Climate change! THUD!

WAR! WHACK!

Scandal! THUD!

It's disorienting and discouraging, and it's highly edited by our media. It's enough to keep ANYone from staying informed. So part of my problem is just staying in the loop.

But the other thing that's very difficult- and rarely done- is to try and project what will happen in the future. Discern trends, look for mitigating processes, and try to predict what will happen next, and what will happen after that.

For example, let's look at something simple like human population growth. The trends are that the population continues to grow, and there are NO mitigating factors that would significantly change that trend, so despite all of the terrible consequences of population growth it will, indeed, continue to grow and we will experience all of the negative consequences.

It may seem strange that this is a revelation to me, because I've made a number of predictions here, but predictions are something that I do once in a while when data smacks me in the fact so hard it's impossible to ignore, not routinely. I really don't try to project trends into the future very often, and it seems to me that most other people don't either, and that's something of a downfall with how we deal with things.

In contrast, when Dick Cheney set up his energy task force in 2001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Task_Force
amidst much secrecy and controversy, one of the important results of that task force- which we are now finding out about - thirteen years later - was the exemption of fracking operations from all Federal regulations (Clean Air, Clean Water, Safe Drinking Water etc).

Heck, who even KNEW what fracking was in 2001? Who predicted what a trend it would be almost 15 years later??? (A trend, BTW, that will collapse the minute interest rates go up, because fracking is energetically and financially very marginal, and the wells play out in 5 years. But that's another story)

I KNOW it would focus my thinking if I made a conscious effort to try and do 5- and 10-year and 30-year projections on a number of events. It would help me separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Help identify the chaff that'll blow away in a 5-year timespan, from the enduring trends that will make a real difference to me and my family. Mitigate that impulse to REACT. and improve the PLANNING. I'm going to try to do that from now on.

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Sunday, May 18, 2014 1:13 PM

CHRISISALL


Two words:
Soylent Green.

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Sunday, May 18, 2014 1:19 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Two better words:
Building furniture

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Sunday, May 18, 2014 2:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Help identify the chaff that'll blow away in a 5-year timespan, from the enduring trends that will make a real difference to me and my family."

I hate to say it but predictions are easy: hotter temps, less rainfall in the west half of the US, vastly higher prices for food and fuel, more people and more war. The particular crises that happen out of the blue - maybe a nuclear meltdown here, a crumbling dollar there - aren't specifically particularly predictable, but you can count on them at SOME point because of the human habit of continuing to run forward at top speed even when the wall is right there.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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