REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Accident or Not? Malaysian Airliner shot down.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, February 9, 2023 09:43
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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Always nice to meet other voices of reason in these threads. Nice bit of posting you have been doing."

Yep. More blah blah blah. Very nice.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meanwhile, the USA intelligence agencies do a major walk-back from the assertions they were making, oh just a few short hours ago, when they had proof... PROOF, I TELL YOU! VIDEOS! ... All over the media!..... that Russia gave missiles to the separatists

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack
/

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane
/


US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Awww, hell, this deserves a thread of its own.
--------


MAL4, you used to be a reasonable person. And yanno what? I'm still the anti-corporate, anti-tyranny person I used to be. But I did ONE THING to piss you off, and you still haven't figured it out.

As for "all of your info", well, you haven't brought it here. No links, no evidence, no nothing. All I'm looking for is something verifiable. There's no sin in that.

Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:26 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yea ok, first of all you were late to this dance professor so you actually were arguing points I had long been arguing, and not just in this thread.

I didn't realize I had to ask your permission before I could post if I don't get in right away.

Quote:

When you suggest I am turning every thread into a personal fight so that my roll becomes the focus, all I can say is really? I mean really?
Yes. Yes. You've been on this site for a month and a half and you have slipped right into the Rappy role vs Sig. And you acted very familiar with other posters who've been here years. And from moment one you got into personal fights. You took no time to get to know people, but jumped right on them.

What's RWDT? You mean RWED? Dude, I've been on this site for 9 years. I know the personalities and dysfunctions just fine.


Quote:

Lastly I did not claim to know how Signym was reasonable in years past. What I said is you must have been bamboozled, you claimed Sig was reasonable in the recent past. I suggested no one changes that much that fast.
They do if they confuse the characters they are playing.

Quote:

You need to stop thinking the world of your deductive skills.
No.

Quote:

At least until you display some. I followed your link awhile ago to a thread you started and noticed a very interesting post. It is starting to look like this guy nailed you to a tea.
Which guy? What the hell are you talking about? Nailed to a "tea"? You may be the awesome king/queen at deduction and understanding online personalities instantaneously, but you sure don't communicate worth shit LOL!



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4, is your PM working? If I PM you with something that may clear up your suspicions, is that OK? Because there is a very simple explanation for what you think you see, and it isn't what you think.

AFA what you think of as my "changed personality", I did ONE THING different, and I did it on purpose and with forethought. I take full credit or blame for whatever changes you think you see. It's not a sock puppet thing.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:58 AM

MAL4PREZ


As I pointed out in the thread you started, nice strawman.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, you used to be a reasonable person. And yanno what? I'm still the anti-corporate, anti-tyranny person I used to be. But I did ONE THING to piss you off, and you still haven't figured it out.

No. One thing rolls off my back. Consistent blind bias I find annoying, especially when it's attached to a gifted brain, and it results in you often being dickish.

You know, like saying: "Try and keep up" regarding an article I'd seen days ago.

Quote:

As for "all of your info", well, you haven't brought it here. No links, no evidence, no nothing. All I'm looking for is something verifiable. There's no sin in that.


A good summary of the US govt's situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-discloses-int
elligence-on-downing-of-malaysian-jet/2014/07/22/b178fe58-11e1-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html?hpid=z1


It includes pictures of three sightings of the missile show it's direction of movement on July 17.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-intelligence-
states-its-case-on-the-shoot-down-of-mh17/2014/07/22/a2c6ca44-11f9-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_graphic.html



Then there's buzzfeed:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/locals-say-rebels-moved-missile-laun
cher-shortly-before-mala


"Several locals said that the launcher had driven down Gagarina Street, one of the town’s main thoroughfares, toward the town of Snizhne, near where Ukraine and the U.S. say the missile was fired. Though convoys of heavy equipment have become a regular sight in Torez since the conflict between pro-Russian separatists and the government in Kiev started in April, workers in one store said that the one that passed through last Thursday was much louder than ones they had seen before.

The locals all asked not to be identified for fear of reprisal from the rebels, who control the town. Many of the residents who spoke to BuzzFeed denied knowing anything about the launcher or claimed that it had never passed through the town.

While the locals’ accounts do not prove that the rebels fired the missile, they do undermine their denials of ever owning such a system. The entire area around Torez is rebel-controlled, and there are rebel checkpoints on all the entrances to town."

[A photo on the buzzfeed article shows the smoke trail of the missile. Caption says:] "BuzzFeed also visited the location where this photo, uploaded to Twitter on Thursday, was taken, apparently capturing the trail of smoke from the rocket in a field south of Snizhne."

[The article continues:]

The vantage point of the photo also corresponds with recordings Ukraine posted a day after the attack of what it said were rebels discussing moving the rocket. “You get there and Pervomaiske’s round there, look on the map,” says a man on the recording identified as Sergei Petrovsky, a rebel intelligence officer nicknamed “Gloomy.”

“Get set up in that area somewhere, get the men you have left over there,” continues the man identified as Petrovsky. “Your job is backup, plus guarding the thing you’re going to take over there.”


A video of the rocket launcher moving through a town. Buzzfeed claims to have verified the location it was taken.




A more in depth discussion of just how trustworthy or not the evidence is:
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-154-heavy-fighting-
in-donetsk/#3487


Quote:

Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.
Prove it sweetie pie. I haven't seen you do ANYTHING of the like. I have yet to see you post anything but your hunches based on how much you hate the West.



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:04 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Meanwhile, the USA intelligence agencies do a major walk-back from the assertions they were making, oh just a few short hours ago, when they had proof... PROOF, I TELL YOU! VIDEOS! ... All over the media!..... that Russia gave missiles to the separatists

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack
/

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane
/


US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Awww, hell, this deserves a thread of its own.
--------
Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.

You are in the wrong. Look beyond the headline of each story and links back to Russia are mentioned:

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack
/
“. . . senior intelligence officials on Tuesday blamed Moscow for supplying the missile. Officials said Russia “created the conditions” that led to the deadly attack by arming the Ukrainian rebels suspected of firing the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew the Boeing 777 out of the sky on Thursday.”

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane
/
“The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch.”

US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing
This story URL was updated to point at this other story: US: Russia 'created the conditions' for shoot-down
http://news.msn.com/world/us-russia-created-the-conditions-for-shoot-d
own


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?

You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.

Thanks.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:05 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?

You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.

Thanks.



Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it?

Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND- this is being discussed in the "Major walk-back" thread, which is much shorter and easier to follow. Please go there. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58369

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it? Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.


You mean MAL4 that you're complaining about HAVING TO SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS? How is that that YOUR statements become MY homework?

WTF???

SHEESH!!! Try to keep up, indeed!

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:08 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it? Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.


You mean MAL4 that you're complaining about HAVING TO SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS? How is that that YOUR statements become MY homework?

WTF???

SHEESH!!! Try to keep up, indeed!



And still you post absolutely nothing but insults and opinions based on bias.

Is that really all you got?

ETA: actually this points directly to why I get so frustrated with you. This thread did not have to be me versus you. This board ccould be about discussing what's happening out there, but with you it never is. You go and make a declaration and sit back and demand that people prove you wrong. You do no figuring out on your own, no proving of anything on your own, but still are incredibly superior and judgmental, especially if anyone DARES to do what you do - voicing an opinion without publishing a fully annotated supporting thesis. It's a fucking chat site sig!

Is it not anyone's *job* to prove you wrong. Yet in thread after thread you create that exact situation. And you know what, you're almost always a dick about it. Yes, I am being a dick back at this point, because you have been so thoroughly annoying I have no reason to try for a convivial relationship with you.



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:09 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, is your PM working? If I PM you with something that may clear up your suspicions, is that OK? Because there is a very simple explanation for what you think you see, and it isn't what you think.

AFA what you think of as my "changed personality", I did ONE THING different, and I did it on purpose and with forethought. I take full credit or blame for whatever changes you think you see. It's not a sock puppet thing.


I missed this post. PM away.




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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:30 PM

MAL4PREZ


Even if you don't speak Russian (I sure don't) this is informative:

http://avva.livejournal.com/2787603.html?thread=107583763



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:03 PM

THGRRI



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?
You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.
Thanks.



Here it is in a nutshell… SIGNYM… You just admitted to all you only look for ways to disprove what others are saying because you have an agenda and do not care about the truth. Here it is, you asking for the other side of the story because you only researched one side, yours. How could you possible know what the truth is without having researched what both sides are saying?

So finally the truth comes out. Sig only looks for the propaganda and not the whole story. Thanks Sig, nicely done. We are not trying to prove our argument, we are trying to explain to you what really happened.

And this is why you chickened out when I accepted your offer to argue different sides. I was ready to go.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:20 PM

THGRRI


Psssst, Pssssst Signym, hey Signym. 1kiki whats up with this shit?.....ooops


"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-
exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:46 PM

THGRRI





"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN0FS1V920140723


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:27 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI
Here it is, you asking for the other side of the story because you only researched one side, yours. How could you possible know what the truth is without having researched what both sides are saying?

I still trust you as far as my skinny arms could throw you THG, but *this*. You nailed it. That is exactly what's fcuked about what sig has been doing lately.

However, I know the old sig and you don't. I have insight that you don't. She used to be The Information Provider for RWED. She used to be links and facts galore. Really.

And now she says she changed something. ONE thing.

I begin to wonder if she is being a vacuum, void, emptiness of information on purpose, to make a point of how it was for her when no one else did research that fit her rigorous standards. Perhaps she is now purposely playing the role of old Rap.

(Speaking of which: Hey THG, FU very much for being on this site barely 1.5 months and thinking you have any basis to judge my ability to judge other posters. As I explained but you may be too much of an ass to grok, I've had 9 years of history with these "people." There's all kinds of shit you don't know about in our past, so don't be trying to draw conclusions. It just makes you look like a troll or a sock. Or both.)

So sig, is that what you changed? You now refuse to contribute any information, but only demand it of others? If so, not very chivalrous of you to play such games.



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:38 PM

MAL4PREZ


Also, for sig's further enlightenment:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306134/rebels-mh17-site-sabotage-plan-inter
cepted


Rebels planned to sabotage the investigation into Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 by scattering parts of other planes at the crash site, according to Sky sources.

UK intelligence officials intercepted communications between pro-Russian separatists, seemingly discussing deliberate attempts to tamper with the scene of the disaster.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators.



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:57 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Also, for sig's further enlightenment:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306134/rebels-mh17-site-sabotage-plan-inter
cepted


Rebels planned to sabotage the investigation into Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 by scattering parts of other planes at the crash site, according to Sky sources.

UK intelligence officials intercepted communications between pro-Russian separatists, seemingly discussing deliberate attempts to tamper with the scene of the disaster.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators.



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I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?

Really?

And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.

Quote:

So sig, is that what you changed? You now refuse to contribute any information, but only demand it of others? If so, not very chivalrous of you to play such games.
I'm still providing information and links galore, it's just not information that you like to see.

What did I change? I used to focus on the rightwing here, and that was a very comfortable spot for liberals to be in. But I'm not really a liberal, and I changed my focus to criticize liberal causes and liberal memes, Obama included, to see how liberals responded to having their ideas challenged.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:06 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?

Really?

And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.



What you are claiming now does not explain away the entire statement you made in that post. That said you have taken quite the abuse lately (deserved or not) and it is time to put it to bed.

Besides I could kill you with my brain.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What brain?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You stepped into that one!


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:27 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaisian-flight-m
h17-rostov-air-traffic-control
/



NSNBC.ME? Hah

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nsnbc.me


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:51 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.


that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?

So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?

Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.

You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.

You, sir, are a liar.

Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:11 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone.



Wow. I had no idea that you were so helpless. WTH websites do you check? It was not hard to find! At all! I've been in meetings all week and I had no problem.

Especially ironic: your "try to keep up" regarding an article that you said had been posted, idk, some hours ago. I'd seen it DAYS ago, I just didn't mis-apply it the way you did. Assumption was all yours.

Now you admit to being disconnected from the latest news. Poor you! No one should be a bitch and tell you to keep up, right? Goose and Gander, hey?

Hell sig, I don't buy it. If you're going to post the way you do you NEED to get off your ass and try to keep up.

Lesson: don't play the superiority card when you are obviously not better informed than the rest of us. That's what you're saying now, that you've been busy and couldn't keep up, so you were less informed. And yet you felt fine mocking me about being behind (when I was far from it)? And fine about mocking me for taking so long to open your eyes to reality, because you were just too lazy be as informed as you claim you are?

+++++----BS METER ON OVERLOAD-----++++++

Quote:

I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?


Obvi, you need to learn to be better connected to REAL news sites, cause what you're looking at sucks. As the self-proclaimed queen of fact-gathering, you should try a little harder to be INFORMED. Not because you want to *WIN* some meaningless stupid internet battle with someone you know nothing about, but because you love to know the truth. Or so you say.

Do you not see the logic FAIL here? You are all about being informed, and you will lord it over people and dismiss everything they say, but oh... you were just too busy to find that headline so everyone should just leave you alone...

Wow. Signym is circling the drain. Seriously. No coming back from this.

Note that your ignorance did not stop you from making some extremely dickish, superior, dismissive statements. Here, try the following, copy and paste it for your future use. It might work better for you than your present uber-superior bitch mode:

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."



*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:31 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.


that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?

So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?

Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.

You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.

You, sir, are a liar.

Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.


Youch! All this lib on lib disharmony and hatred is so upsetting.

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

....MAL4PREZ
that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?
So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?
Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.
You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.
You, sir, are a liar.
Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.





No, that suggestion was not yours. It was wishimay. She said she noticed I jumped right in and most don’t. It doesn’t surprise me that you would take credit for it though. You do think a lot of yourself.

Ass for suggesting I said I have a monumental understanding of the RWDT, I said no such thing. Your anger clouds your judgment. It fogs things up. That’s very unhealthy. I see anger comes to you fast and I find that amusing. Wow such name calling in this post. It didn’t take much at all to pull you off your game. Better learn to keep your chin up.

I have been noticing cracks about me by you showing up a little too often to suit me. You claim I could not possible know the personalities here so quickly yet you have been implying you had figured me out for quite a while now. I saw this about you referenced by the other guy when I followed the link you have as your signature. I sent a few warning shots to get you to desist but to no avail. So here we are. Let’s see I’m a dick, and a noob. Whatever that is it can’t be good? You suggest I joined the club under false pretense. I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion but hey I’m a noob and a liar so Ok. As for lurking, I don’t think so. I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally. There is a lot of nice art and stories to go through.

Damn I looked back at my post to gauge your response and I have to ask, is everything all right? You seem a bit disheveled. To be truthful my biggest concern is that I didn’t know everybody hated me. I’m crushed. And not just time to get the cookies crushed but apple pie and ice cream crushed. Everybody, are you sure? Shit, what do I do now?

Help me MAL4PREZ only your wisdom can save me now!



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:25 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."









"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN0FS1V920140723




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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:41 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:23 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

lets play by sig's rules. You have to provide the info to back your claim. Go through this thread and count how many statements she made that we're actually linked to anything. Do the same for my posts. Go on, I'll wait.

Sig, criticize liberal causes all you want. Just use FACTS. Still, though I've asked several times you have not provided any thing but your gut feelings. I think back on page one you quoted an article, since then it's been nothing but you on your high horse, demanding that everyone prove you wrong - your words. Oh, but when we do you claim that you never really took a side. Except that you just admitted that you definitely took a side, one you decided on some time ago.

THG is right - you have just admitted your bias. You decided to argue against liberal causes. You have entered every thread lately with that bias, and that makes you blind. Like rappy, you don't get that I am not liberal. I don't choose a side in advance like you love birds do. I go with what I see coming out of the many various news sources. You obviously do not.

1. You pre-decided to argue against what you see as a liberal cause
2. You admit that you haven't had time to read the news
3. In this thread you placed yourself as an expert, dismissing statements right and left, though you operating from a place of prejudice and ignorance. By your own admission!

Notice that you still haven't processed the data I give you. You follow up with the personal fight but not the topic. Maybe because you have been proved so completely wrong and all you really want here is a win. Not to find truth, but to out argue all us inferior posters, especially your latest target - the liberals.


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:24 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
and this is a example of you refuting a piece of evidence with... What? Facts? Links?

Really am looking forward to the total you come up with as far as links provided by you and sig - that's right, you can combine yours - versus me.


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:31 AM

MAL4PREZ


THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.

As for who gave you advice, it prob came from several posters. I know I wrote such a post to you, clearly mine wasn't the one you read. No matter - it's still good advice.

Yet again I will point out the irony that sig decides to take anti-liberal side of things at the same time that a belligerent liberal shows up with pre- existing knowledge of all our ways, and sig and the new guy proceed to dance the way sig and rap used to. And rap fades away. And sig becomes very rap like in her bias and attitude. I see her doing nothing to seek the truth in this thread, just a successful attempt to start and continue multiple fights.


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:51 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.




Who 1kiki, who says he was misquoted and it doesn't seem confused to me. I guess everything confuses you though.


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:54 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What brain?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You stepped into that one!




Yeah, yeah I did.


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:57 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.



What I said was “we have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me”. In my other post I answered with,” I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally. There is a lot of nice art and stories to go through”. I said this because you had before, and continued to make claims about me. Off handed remarks about my personality.

Also you are indicating guests to this site are little more than spies. It that a fair interpretation of what you are inferring? It is the complaint you submit about me.

Quote:

……MAL4PREZ
As for who gave you advice, it prob came from several posters. I know I wrote such a post to you, clearly mine wasn't the one you read. No matter - it's still good advice.



You admit to giving me advice when I joined. I don’t recall that but let’s say you did. In your case I see it is to establish your hierarchy here? I can sense in you a need to do that. Here is a quote from you pointed out by Miker at the other side of your signature link.

Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
"Again I can do nothing but point and laugh. I have not argued with "Miker" before tonight. On purpose. To flush you out".

Miker back at you.

“Yeah, you have to show all how you are so brilliant and can stalk your victim coming in for the kill with your super wit to expose our psychosis. After the setup of pretending to offer some new truth, you character assonate the one you have picked for that particular performance”.



Thanks for the link. So, I see you have been here before. I guess I am supposed to be your new victim. I first noticed you starting with me in this thread when you made a prediction that the separatists sent the black boxes back to Russia, and no one would be seeing them any time soon. I suggested the black boxes would not be of much help because they would just show things like altitude and such.

Your next post was to take a swipe at me using Sig in a way first suggested by Miker a while ago. Check it out.

Quote:

….Miker quoting you…
"Sig undergoes an extreme change in personality after I poke her/it about her years-old symbiosis with Rap".

You to Sig in this thread.
Wow. You've really undergone a personality shift since THGRRL showed up. Anyone else noticed that?



Look familiar, once again Sig go’s through a dramatic change. Hey Sig if you are reading this does this sound failure to you?

Quote:

….Miker speaking to you.
I see with you, it is self-praise your into. I love reading how you have my personality figured out. How you are so hip to me. So, you’re the group’s psychoanalyst.



I love this guy where did he go? Let’s check you out diagnosing some of us here shall we.

Quote:

….MAL4PREZ

Yet again I will point out the irony that sig decides to take anti-liberal side of things at the same time that a belligerent liberal shows up with pre- existing knowledge of all our ways, and sig and the new guy proceed to dance the way sig and rap used to. And rap fades away. And sig becomes very rap like in her bias and attitude. I see her doing nothing to seek the truth in this thread, just a successful attempt to start and continue multiple fights.



It’s you who claim to have everyone figured out. I have a feeling it is all old news too our fellow posters, but I don’t mind reminding them. Oh yeah, talk about all over the place, these next quotes come from the same post by you.

Quote:

....MAL4PREZ
THGRRI has been arguing the same ideas as me on this thread, but the way he tumbles is just like you and rap. Dickish, name-calling, taking every thread into a personal fight so that his roll with you becomes the focus.

Sig, you are rappy in my mind. I don't care if it's a sock situation, have no interest in making that call. You are just as unreasonable and dickish and superior and inflexible as he is. And so I have no interest in engaging with you anymore, except to occasionally mock you for how wonked you are.



Gee wiz, such contradiction in the same post. How would you diagnose this one doc?

P.S. I just wanted to give a shout out to Miker. Great insights buddy.



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:52 PM

MAL4PREZ



Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.

What I said was “we have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me”. In my other post I answered with,” I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally.

So you were lurking? Dude, I didn't say that lurking is a bad thing. I have no problem with it. I'm just trying to figure out how you came blasting onto this board the way you did. Your entry to this site was different than almost any other noob I've met. Except a few who turned out to be socks...

If you were on chat, you must have had an account. So that was since June. I'm asking because I'm truly curious - how long before that did you lurk and get to know us? A month? A year?


Quote:

Also you are indicating guests to this site are little more than spies. It that a fair interpretation of what you are inferring? It is the complaint you submit about me.
I'm saying nothing of the kind about guests, or lurkers, or about new people in general. Most are very nice and interesting. You're a bull in a china shop.

Quote:

You admit to giving me advice when I joined. I don’t recall that but let’s say you did. In your case I see it is to establish your hierarchy here? I can sense in you a need to do that. Here is a quote from you pointed out by Miker at the other side of your signature link.
No hierarchy. I was in fact trying to be helpful, just in case you really are a nice guy who didn't understand why so many posters got so quickly annoyed with you.

Thanks for the summation with Miker. Your glee and misunderstanding provides further insight into your personality.

As for my take on sig, again you ignore the fact that I have been reading (and largely enjoying) her posts for NINE years. I have gotten to know her as much as that's possible on an anonymous web site. So what's up between her and I is beyond your fathoming.

Quote:

It’s you who claim to have everyone figured out. I have a feeling it is all old news too our fellow posters, but I don’t mind reminding them. Oh yeah, talk about all over the place, these next quotes come from the same post by you.
Nothing's figured out. The figuring is on-going. Posting my observations and seeing how you react is part of the process. ;)

Quote:

Gee wiz, such contradiction in the same post. How would you diagnose this one doc?
I have no interest in your diagnosis of me, you china shop breaking bull who's managed to annoy just about every one on this site in a brief little month and a half. I have no reason to think your judgement of anyone's personality is insightful.

And hey, at least it took me and sig nine years to come to blows! You work fast LOL!



*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:08 PM

THGRRI


Definition of lurk (vi)

Bing Dictionary
lurk
[ lurk ]


1.move or wait furtively: to move about furtively, or wait in a concealed position or a shadowy corner, especially with the intention of doing something wrong

As for how long I had an account before posting, long enough. So the assumption that I just started posting has always been a bit off. I just let it fly.

As for Miker, he nailed you good. I just followed his lead and in what you posted in just a few of the posts in this thread showed him to be correct.

I am a nice guy. Just not a pussy.



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:25 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
1.move or wait furtively: to move about furtively, or wait in a concealed position or a shadowy corner, especially with the intention of doing something wrong

Welcome to the internet age grasshopper! Words have new definitions and uses, which you might know if you took the time to learn the culture before you "let fly." Lurking is a common term, and common thing to do. It's not uncommon for a poster to say: "Oh yeah I lurked that thread. Didn't have much to add." No big.


Quote:

As for Miker, he nailed you good. I just followed his lead and in what you posted in just a few of the posts in this thread showed him to be correct.
OK, see it that way if it makes you feel good. It's clearly something you need. ;)

Quote:

I am a nice guy.
Yeah, you're charming and have a real talent for making friends LOL! And boy are you gleeful over seeing someone taken down, as you think. 100% sugar, no spice in you!

And enough with this tangent. I'm done with your tangled freaky mess.



*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:58 PM

THGRRI


You are entitled to type any word you wish but not to change it's meaning, and with your superior wit surly you should be able to handle a grasshopper with a little more finesse.

My first post here I was greeted like a leper by two who post here, and like a person by wishimay. I posted this response.


If you see me as father time
Then I shall respond in kind
If you see me as the Reaper
Into your soul I shall go deeper

I got no problem in giving to you what you started giving to me many threads ago.






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Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:10 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
You are entitled to type any word you wish but not to change it's meaning,

Fart dust enshrouded grandpa is clearly not aware of the way things change.

Dictionary.com:
twit·ter
[twit-er] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1.to utter a succession of small, tremulous sounds, as a bird.
2.to talk lightly and rapidly, especially of trivial matters; chatter.
3.to titter; giggle.
4.to tremble with excitement or the like; be in a flutter.
5.Digital Technology , tweet ( def 4 ) .


Quote:

and with your superior wit surly you should be able to handle a grasshopper with a little more finesse.
Finesse is useless as applied to a bull in a china shop, an old man who's "nice" but he ain't no "pussy" LOL! Because pussies are horrible bad things and "nice" guys need to be clear about how they are not so low in the world as to be comparable to female genitalia. Cause that shit is just *RANCID*.

Right, THG?


Quote:

My first post here I was greeted like a leper by two who post here, and like a person by wishimay. I posted this response.
Every single poster here has had a first post. But only yours drew such a response. Why might that be?

A conspiracy? Did we all know you were coming? Did an alert go out, letting us know that we had to say mean things to this one particular anonymous noob?

Or might it have been something about the particulars of how you "let it fly" without a second's respect for the culture here?

Dude, I think you really did need that advice that me and other more politic posters offered you. Because you still don't get it. You reap what you sow grasshopper.

Continue to sow the same, or actually do the hard thing and learn.





*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
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Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:23 PM

MAL4PREZ


Jesus. Why are we still talking about this crap with THG? What's happening in Ukraine is of FAR more importance than THG's thuggishness or my "unreasonable" hostility. Has the Sig/Kiki combo actually tried to process the evidence posted yesterday and not yet followed up on, (because it proved them wrong), or are they busy finding a new prejudiced approach to blaming the west?

For 9 years I thought sig was well informed, expert even. I found her dry and cold but worth listening to, because she saw a new angle on things. Now she takes stances on issues she is ignorant about based on nothing but her prejudiced decision to go after the left rather than the right.

My image of sig is totally blown. I thought she'd fallen in my esteem already. Nothing compared to where she is after the admissions of today.

Chris went silent. What's up with that?


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:35 PM

THGRRI


What a rant, none of which makes any sense. Get a grip on yourself. Finesse means what the dictionary says it means and was used in it's proper context within my sentence. lurk means what the dictionary says it means which I pointed out to you.

I know you think this means I am old and out of touch but I believe it means you are illiterate and unbalanced due to that and the way you have responded to my attempt to enlighten you. Why don't you diagnose yourself? Try and find out what has you so on edge.

As for everybody hating me I know, I know but I am all out of pie and ice cream!



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:05 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
What a rant, none of which makes any sense. Get a grip on yourself. Finesse means what the dictionary says it means

How old are you lil green one? I'm no spring chicken, but still I'm aware of the ever changing times, something that obviously escapes you.

But I'm also aware of my limitations as one of the older generation and I adjust my approach accordingly.

You? Not so much. At all. The noob THG that you are clings desperately to Oxfords' dictionary for square, classic definitions, just as he clings to every little non-supported belief that must not ever change even though times are changing fast...

Or not? Don't let me tell your full narrative for you, grasshopper. If you have anything real and honest to say about your goals and methods in life, share it now. Set me straight about me. Or have you not the courage to be honest?

FYI: If I sense that you are being honest, nothing you say will draw criticism. If you continue to manipulate, then it's fair game and I will not hesitate to be brutally crystal clear with my thoughts.

Other posters have not enjoyed this process, certainly they have not seen it so clearly stated.

Tangent: When and where did sig and her clone go? Hiding somewhere private? ;)


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Tangent: When and where did sig and her clone go? Hiding somewhere private? ;)

Has new information for discussion been posted? I didn't see any.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:51 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
How old are you lil green one? I'm no spring chicken, but still I'm aware of the ever changing times, something that obviously escapes you.



I am as old as my gums and a little older than my teeth.

Quote:

MAL4PREZ
But I'm also aware of my limitations as one of the older generation and I adjust my approach accordingly.



Keep tweaking it doc, you haven’t quite got it right yet.

Quote:

…MALRPREZ
You? Not so much. At all. The noob THG that you are clings desperately to Oxfords' dictionary for square, classic definitions, just as he clings to every little non-supported belief that must not ever change even though times are changing fast...



Better to be accurate in what one posts than to offend unintentionally. That is something you learn as you mature. Not to worry, you may get there yet.

Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
Or not? Don't let me tell your full narrative for you, grasshopper. If you have anything real and honest to say about your goals and methods in life, share it now. Set me straight about me. Or have you not the courage to be honest?



Gee …

Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
FYI: If I sense that you are being honest, nothing you say will draw criticism. If you continue to manipulate, then it's fair game and I will not hesitate to be brutally crystal clear with my thoughts.



Double Gee….

Quote:

….MAL4PREZ
Other posters have not enjoyed this process, certainly they have not seen it so clearly stated.



Yes I can tell they are all very upset by the way they are posting those I hate you THGRRI posts. And may I say, I think it is wonderful how you have taken it upon yourself to speak for all here, bravo. I offer more perceptions about you from Miker.

Quote:

….Miker
“Offering some new insight into the discussion is not what you are about. I see with you, it is self-praise your into. Trying to be everyone's champion is. Coming to the rescue is. Nope, not impressed at all”.



You have to love this guy. Well, maybe not you.



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:08 PM

THGRRI





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Friday, July 25, 2014 12:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

You go and make a declaration and sit back and demand that people prove you wrong.
Well, first of all, what "declaration" did I post?
That the USA ordered the plane shot down?
Uh... no.
That Kiev did it?
Uh... no, not that, either.
That the USA is lying in this case?
NOPE, not that either!
That Russia didn't do it?
Well, EVERYONE knows that you can't prove a negative! That's like showing that Saddam didn't have WMD! So for sure, I didn't say that, either.

You can't "prove" my "declarations" wrong because I didn't make any. I asked questions, that's what I've done.

OMG!!! I ASKED QUESTIONS!!!
Not to be tolerated!!!

But, even if I HAD made declaratations and demanded that others "prove me wrong" ...well, isn't that the scientific method? Put forth a hyppothesis for everyone to pillory, if they can?

Quote:

You do no figuring out on your own, no proving of anything on your own, but still are incredibly superior and judgmental, especially if anyone DARES to do what you do - voicing an opinion without publishing a fully annotated supporting thesis. It's a fucking chat site sig!

Is it not anyone's *job* to prove you wrong. Yet in thread after thread you create that exact situation. And you know what, you're almost always a dick about it. Yes, I am being a dick back at this point, because you have been so thoroughly annoying I have no reason to try for a convivial relationship with you.

And I have none for you. Plus, I think I've already responded to this.

Yanno, MAL4, there is a way out, and that is to ASK QUESTIONS OF YOUR OWN.



Quote:

Here it is in a nutshell… SIGNYM… You just admitted to all you only look for ways to disprove what others are saying because you have an agenda and do not care about the truth.
I answered that later...

Quote:

THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.
So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?
Really?
And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.



And also...
Quote:

Just use FACTS. Still, though I've asked several times you have not provided any thing but your gut feelings. I think back on page one you quoted an article, since then it's been nothing but you on your high horse, demanding that everyone prove you wrong - your words.
Really? Quote me, please. Use facts.

MAL4, yes I'm cold. No, I have no warm fuzzies about me. Yes, I am a scientist. No, I'm not a liberal. I think the best ideas should survive. That's why I ask questions, and I think you should too.

So, here are some more questions. If you got any of them wrong, you really should ask yourself why.
-----------------------------


How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4, as promised

U.S. discloses intelligence on downing of Malaysian jet

Quote:

The Obama administration, detailing what it called evidence of Russian complicity in the downing of a Malaysian airliner, on Tuesday released satellite images and other sensitive intelligence that officials say show Moscow had trained and equipped rebels in Ukraine responsible for the attack.

This is an incomplete statement, which I've already discussed with Geezer. Maybe if I heard the full statement in context, it would be more robust, but they failed to make clear (in this article, anyway) whether they meant that Russia is supplying and training the Ukrainian separatists with the BUK anti-aircraft missiles in question, or whether they're referring to other equipment. I know it seems a quibble, but considering how our various administrations... Democratic as well as Republican... have flat-out lied in the past, I would like to hear that point made clear.

Quote:

Senior U.S. intelligence officials cited sensors that traced the path of the missile

I'm sure this is sensitive information, but- how accurate are they? Other reports, some from Russia and some from internal whistleblowers, say that Ukraine had positioned BUK missiles right in that area as well. ONE source who claims inside CIA knowledge says that US satellite pictures show that it was Ukrainian forces who fired the missile.

Quote:

shrapnel markings on the downed aircraft
Which indicates that the plane was fired on, and didn't break apart because of mechanical failure, but we already knew that.

Quote:

voiceprint analysis of separatists claiming credit for the strike
As I asked Geezer already, in order to do a voiceprint, you need an exemplar for comparison. Do that have valid IDs on the exemplar voiceprints?

Quote:

and a flood of photos and other data from social-media sites.
Which indicate what, exactly? There was ONE video purporting to show BUK missiles being moved by rebel forces, on examination of the background billboards etc it showed KIEV moving BUK missiles into position.

Quote:

The officials also for the first time identified a sprawling Russian military installation near the city of Rostov as the main conduit of Russian support to separatists in Ukraine, describing it as a hub of training and weapons that has expanded dramatically over the past month. The officials said that tanks, rocket launchers and other arms have continued to flow into Ukraine even after the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which killed 298 civilians.
This is a conclusion without evidence. Perhaps there was more at the briefing.

Quote:

Analysts at the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies are continuing to examine information about the crash, but the officials said the intelligence assembled in the five days since the attack points overwhelmingly to Russian-backed separatists in territory they control in eastern Ukraine.
This wouldn't be the first time "overwhelming" data evaporated on close examination. We need to look back no further than Syria.

Quote:

The senior intelligence officials said they have ruled out the possibility that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the attack.“That is not a plausible scenario,” said one senior U.S. official, who noted that American intelligence agencies have confirmed that Ukraine had no antiaircraft missile system within range of the Malaysian flight at the time it was struck.
Which is contradicted by other statements from other parties, including one anonymous person who the reporter claims is a CIA whistleblower.

Quote:

It includes pictures of three sightings of the missile show it's direction of movement on July 17.

These are more convincing. Photos and videos, especially those that contain identifiable background, can be probative. However, a number of photos (or stills, perhaps) seem to be very anonymous. A billboard in one of the videos intending to show BUK missiles being moved by rebels reveals that the missiles were actually in Kiev-controlled areas. Also, were these functional? Supposedly the captured BUK systems weren't functional. They need radar trucks and a command vehicle to work. Were any of THOSE ever spotted?

Quote:

The U.S. says it has satellite data showing a missile was fired at the plane later on Thursday from a field outside Snizhne.
A couple of lines drawn on a map. I could do that with Powerpoint.

Quote:

BuzzFeed also visited the location where this photo, uploaded to Twitter on Thursday, was taken, apparently capturing the trail of smoke from the rocket in a field south of Snizhne.
Could be THE key piece of evidence. Where did it come from? Does it show evidence of tampering? Is there anything else that creates that kind of trail? Shoulder-fired missiles, for example? (They DID say there was heavy fighting there.) Has the background been matched up to the area and time purported?

Quote:

The photo was presumably taken from a church or nearby bus stop on a hill overlooking the field in the suburb of Pervomaiske. The area where the smoke is coming from has been the center of heavy fighting in recent days. Constant shelling could be heard in the distance on Tuesday afternoon, and a dark plume of smoke wafted over the horizon. Rebels manning checkpoints on the outskirts of Snizhne said they had orders not to let any journalists into the town.

The vantage point of the photo also corresponds with recordings Ukraine posted a day after the attack of what it said were rebels discussing moving the rocket. “You get there and Pervomaiske’s round there, look on the map,” says a man on the recording identified as Sergei Petrovsky, a rebel intelligence officer nicknamed “Gloomy.”

“Get set up in that area somewhere, get the men you have left over there,” continues the man identified as Petrovsky. “Your job is backup, plus guarding the thing you’re going to take over there.”


We're depending in Kiev to tell us what this is, and they've been very unreliable in the past. This is like Israel "helpfully" providing us with intel on the Syrian sarin attack.

Much of the "evidence" is weak and should be dismissed. Weak evidence doesn't strengthen a case, and adding more weak evidence doesn't make is stronger. So conclusions without evidence and hearsay don't make it into my book.

IMHO some of it is very strong, particularly the videos and stills, but needs close examination and corroboration, especially confirmation of the landscape being talked about and the presence or absence of the other equipment required to make a BUK "work", because according to the rebels their BUK(s) didn't work. They could have been trundling captured equipment around in an effort to not let it fall back into Kiev's hands.

Also, we have yet to hear about those black boxes about which such a fuss was made: the cockpit voice recorder, and the box which tracks the pilot's use of controls and the plane's response. The Ukrainian air traffic control conversations are still tucked away in Kiev's security ministry. We haven't heard about those.

If we're going to "convict" a nation or a group of people of something as serious as shooting down a passenger jet, even by accident, we should be sure to examine the evidence as carefully as if it was being presented by a prosecutor and debated by a defense attorney.

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


VIDEO EVIDENCE AGAINST SEPARATISTS FABRICATED?

Quote:

12. A few hours after the crash, Kiev authorities presented a video in which the opposition admitted shooting down the plane. Experts who studied the video concluded that it was a fabrication:

“The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes.” (Ibid.)

The encoding of the video file shows it was created on July 16, the day before the plane was shot down. This information remains to be confirmed, but if it is accurate, it would mean that the Ukrainian authorities shot the plane down and fabricated evidence to frame the opposition (Did Ukraine Fabricate Evidence to Frame Russia for MH17 Shoot Down?, How American Propaganda Works: “Guilt By Insinuation”)


http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-malaysian-airline-mh17-crash-sixteen-
central-issues-which-cannot-be-ignored/5393296

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