REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 06:17
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Friday, August 15, 2014 11:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Would be nice if black parents would teach their kids not to commit so many crimes, and violent crimes , in the first place.
My former lab manager, and our agency's former purchasing manager ... both of them intelligent and upstanding men... had family in Texas, and they were frequently harassed and occasionally thrown against the car when visiting, and they weren't doing anything wrong. Nor did they look like criminals.




And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

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Friday, August 15, 2014 11:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime


Cite?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 15, 2014 11:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime



Cite?



Naw, it's common knowledge. Go check the stats yourself, if there's any doubt. I won't get sidetracked here.

But throw all that stuff out the window if this cop really did what he was alleged to have done. That's the point of THIS case. DID Michael Brown get physical w/ the cop, and try to take his gun? The video is important because it clearly shows , just minutes prior to his encounter w/ the cops, that Brown was all too eager to get physical when confronted during a robbery. The cop may not have known Brown had just stolen from a store, but that STILL could be a moot point if Brown was the one who initiated the confrontation.

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Friday, August 15, 2014 11:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, no facts. As always.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, no facts. As always.




Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.

Sorry it's locked away from you.


( stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can )

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.
Sorry it's lock (sic) away from you.


But it should be easy for YOU to support YOUR claim. After all, its in that vault YOU know about called the internet. But, sadly for you, it's too hard for you.


according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime
stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can, m'kay?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:17 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime



Cite?



Naw, it's common knowledge. Go check the stats yourself, if there's any doubt. I won't get sidetracked here.

But throw all that stuff out the window if this cop really did what he was alleged to have done. That's the point of THIS case. DID Michael Brown get physical w/ the cop, and try to take his gun? The video is important because it clearly shows , just minutes prior to his encounter w/ the cops, that Brown was all too eager to get physical when confronted during a robbery. The cop may not have known Brown had just stolen from a store, but that STILL could be a moot point if Brown was the one who initiated the confrontation.




Far as I know, nobody's established that the video is legit, much less that it shows Mike Brown.


I realize we all look alike to you, but you're going on nothing but baseless conjecture.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:18 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I think is more disturbing is the militarization of the police. Since when did they get (or need) armored vehicles and assault weapons? That kind of militarization breeds a godlike attitude on the part of the cops.

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.



There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.






When you militarize your police, your citizens tend to look like the enemy.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Far as I know, nobody's established that the video is legit, much less that it shows Mike Brown.



How would it NOT be 'legit' ? When has a video like this been faked ? Help me out here.

And yes, it shows Michael Brown. Just stop it. Have you even SEEN the video ? I have.

Oh, did the cops also plant the cigars on this body afterwards too, just to make the whole elaborate plan, to randomly shoot and kill a young black male - ONLY one black male - in broad day light, full proof ?
Quote:




I realize we all look alike to you, but you're going on nothing but baseless conjecture.




You realize that ... how ? Funny, you are quick to judge others for stereo typing, while being guilty of it yourself.

I have no idea that YOU are black, but I'll take your word on that.

Go back through this thread and see where I sided w/ the cop, claimed Brown deserved to be shot, or flatly stated that one version was the truth and another was a lie.

You're getting so bent out of shape over folks jumping to conclusions, and here you are doing exactly that.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:21 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

Cop bitches at them to get off the street, and when they do not instantly kowtow to his "auth-or-it-tay" he throws a hissy and flings the door open, which hits Brown and rebounds into him, making him angrier, and so he grabs the kid by the throat and pulls his gun - the kid, being no damn fool, KNOWS murder is in the offering cause of the entitled cop mentality and tries to prevent the weapon from being brought to bear on him, cop pulls the trigger anyway, which freaks him out and he bolts.

Cop them shoots him in the back out of petulant rage, and when he tries to surrender, shoots him some more, especially after he's down to make sure, cause he knows damn well how unlikely his murderous ass is gonna be held accountable for it.

Seen it dozens of times, the ONLY difference in this case is that it made the media, and then the local PD, much like Albuquerque, chose to double down on their war against anyone not wearing a badge, complete with using rubber bullets and teargas directly against the media and people in their own yards - and pet peeve here, AIMING at eye/head level, despite that such weapons are supposed to be bounced off the ground to minimize injury, that smacks of malicious intent and premeditation and I personally am of the opinion that any cop caught doing it ought to be criminally charged and stripped of their badge.

And of course, the inevitable demonization press conference, which the media laps right up, but the salient FACT of the matter is that the officer in question *wasn't* following up a case at all, but just telling two "peons" to get off the street cause he COULD, period.
(And I would lay good odds that Brown isn't actually the perp in question anyways)

Of course, our resident punkass bitch and his horde of sock puppets will scream a fit, but remember for the record just how accurate my situational assesments generally turn out to BE - in respect to his own record of damn-near-never, yes ?

And you KNOW it's bad when the fucking RUSSIANS question your commitment to human and civil rights.
Quote:

In the United States, “which has positioned itself as a ‘bastion of human rights’ and is actively engaged in 'export of democracy' on a systematic basis, serious violations of basic human rights and barbaric practices thrive,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said Friday, in a special commentary on the situation in Ferguson. “We would like to advise American partners to pay more attention to restoring order in their own country, before imposing their dubious experience on other states.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-
riots-play-big-in-russia
/

Man, that really stings, especially cause they've got a fuckin POINT.

-Frem

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:52 AM

THGRRI


Yes the Black community has been wronged, terribly wronged. So I will say they should not care what my advice would be, instead they should take their lead from the Jews. They were enslaved in Egypt for 200 to 400 years. During WW11, 6 million were sent to gas chambers. They are few yet stand up to the world. There are only 13.3 million in the entire world. They have balls. It’s easy to bitch about life, to place the blame for your struggles on others, it’s much harder to participate in it.

Nothing will change so long as the Black community thinks it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their neighborhood that is being destroyed, not where the whites live. It's their lives that are disrupted not the whites. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:42 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Gorrammit, Frem.

I was gonna snip your post to touch on the highlights, and the places where I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you. Turns out, woulda been about 99 % of your post, so no sense reprinting it, or snipping.

But it's nice to hear from someone in the field, who's dealing with the situation from his own, radicalized, POV.

You hold up your track record: every time, you seen to oppose the establishment, and hit my own, leftie, position directly on, but based on your EXPERIENCES, rather than just my THEORIES.

I salute you.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:13 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Fern
Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.



They could not be more different. That is the problem with some here. They are detached from the facts due to a bias that exists predetermining what they see as having happened here and with every case. They always go to it’s because they are black.

Quote:

….Fern
Cop bitches at them to get off the street, and when they do not instantly kowtow to his "auth-or-it-tay" he throws a hissy and flings the door open, which hits Brown and rebounds into him, making him angrier, and so he grabs the kid by the throat and pulls his gun - the kid, being no damn fool, KNOWS murder is in the offering cause of the entitled cop mentality and tries to prevent the weapon from being brought to bear on him, cop pulls the trigger anyway, which freaks him out and he bolts.



Says who, I for one don’t believe a word that these witnesses say. Why, because that’s what they always say. How many times do they admit the black guy was wrong? I never hear it. I am always amazed at the credibility give to the witnesses in these situations.

Quote:

….Fern
Cop them shoots him in the back out of petulant rage, and when he tries to surrender, shoots him some more, especially after he's down to make sure, cause he knows damn well how unlikely his murderous ass is gonna be held accountable for it.



This would be damming evidence suggesting the cop lost it. If it’s true he was shot in the back and again when surrendering and again when he was down.

Quote:

….Fern
Seen it dozens of times, the ONLY difference in this case is that it made the media, and then the local PD, much like Albuquerque, chose to double down on their war against anyone not wearing a badge, complete with using rubber bullets and teargas directly against the media and people in their own yards - and pet peeve here, AIMING at eye/head level, despite that such weapons are supposed to be bounced off the ground to minimize injury, that smacks of malicious intent and premeditation and I personally am of the opinion that any cop caught doing it ought to be criminally charged and stripped of their badge.



I agree, I think every case should make it to the news. Every time someone shoots someone their picture should be posted so we can all see who is shooting who in this country. What do you say to that Fern? As for cops shooting high trying to severely injure protesters. Maybe some do, there are bad apples everywhere. Yes strip them of their badge.

Quote:

….Fern
And of course, the inevitable demonization press conference, which the media laps right up, but the salient FACT of the matter is that the officer in question *wasn't* following up a case at all, but just telling two "peons" to get off the street cause he COULD, period.
(And I would lay good odds that Brown isn't actually the perp in question anyways)



From the fist the community propaganda machine start with Brown being nothing but a great kid who was off to college. This tends to rile up the community even more. If it is fair for the community to paint Brown as a saint to the press and for all to see, then it is fair to show the press clips of him bulling and stealing. If, it was him.

Quote:

….Fern
Of course, our resident punkass bitch and his horde of sock puppets will scream a fit, but remember for the record just how accurate my situational assesments generally turn out to BE - in respect to his own record of damn-near-never, yes ?



My place in this is to suggest it doesn’t matter what happened. It is doomed to happen again and again because the black community is a mess. If that does not change I will see you here again in six weeks.

Quote:

….Fern
And you KNOW it's bad when the fucking RUSSIANS question your commitment to human and civil rights.
Man, that really stings, especially cause they've got a fuckin POINT.



Who cares what Russia thinks? Except maybe the gays and for now the Ukrainians. It’s unfortunate but we have a race of people here who were wronged and after all this time still can not find a way to get up off their knees.



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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

I've known some pretty wild (white) teenagers and young adults. They drank, smoked pot, trashed places, pilfered, outran the cops (or sometimes not), had coerced sex, one punched out his boss at work ... but this was in an all-white exurb. In one case, the cops KNEW who broke and entered, he'd done it before, so they went and "talked to the mom". Boys will be boys. Blind eye turned towards many crimes.

Compare that to the "stop and frisk" policy of the NYPD in black neighborhoods. The cops were operating under quotas, they had to being so many young black men in. So many young black were detained for nothing. The cop who brought forward the evidence of this illegal and prejudicial policy ... which eventually turned into a court case ... wound up recording everything .... everything ... as the NYPD tried to claim he was being paranoid, required psychiatric treatment. He even recorded the day they came to his home, tried to talk him out of filing his information, implied that he needed care, then dragged him out of his house, charged him with "resisting arrest" and broke the tape recorder he had on his body. Fortunately, he had another one in the room. It's policy, and when it's not policy it's prejudice.

When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I wonder what the general view of the US is in the overseas developed world.

On the one hand there's the steady stream of US-based infotainment propaganda saturating the world (and us btw, we're the primary target) and painting one picture. And then there's this reality that breaks free of the electronic cage that exposes a very different meme.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:38 PM

THGRRI


That 1kiki is because you only see what is wrong here and not what is good. You also chose to ignore other countries and how the world is as a whole. If you were to give the world an honest look you would realize as flawed as we are, we are way better that most.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:55 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

I've known some pretty wild (white) teenagers and young adults. They drank, smoked pot, trashed places, pilfered, outran the cops (or sometimes not), had coerced sex, one punched out his boss at work ... but this was in an all-white exurb. In one case, the cops KNEW who broke and entered, he'd done it before, so they went and "talked to the mom". Boys will be boys. Blind eye turned towards many crimes.

Compare that to the "stop and frisk" policy of the NYPD in black neighborhoods. The cops were operating under quotas, they had to being so many young black men in. So many young black were detained for nothing. The cop who brought forward the evidence of this illegal and prejudicial policy ... which eventually turned into a court case ... wound up recording everything .... everything ... as the NYPD tried to claim he was being paranoid, required psychiatric treatment. He even recorded the day they came to his home, tried to talk him out of filing his information, implied that he needed care, then dragged him out of his house, charged him with "resisting arrest" and broke the tape recorder he had on his body. Fortunately, he had another one in the room. It's policy, and when it's not policy it's prejudice.

When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.



The justice system in this country is skewed against the poor. White, black it does not matter. Money or lack of it is what matters. If you live a lifestyle that brings you into constant contact with the police (negative contact)bad things are going to happen.

Yes just by the virtue of the neighborhood you will be perceived badly. That is wrong but true. Knowing this should be an incentive to change but it isn't for many. Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


THUGR's pointless propagandist drivel notwithstanding, I still wonder what the general view of the rest of the developed world is of us. There are wildly disparate memes.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I wonder what the general view of the US is in the overseas developed world.

On the one hand there's the steady stream of US-based infotainment propaganda saturating the world (and us btw, we're the primary target) and painting one picture. And then there's this reality that breaks free of the electronic cage that exposes a very different meme.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Here's what sucks...

You own a store, a mini mart. Some punk teenager comes in, snatches a $ 50 box of faux cigars, and tries to exit the store w/ out paying. You confront him, try to get him to stop, and he, being much bigger than you, shoves you out of the way. You try to keep him from leaving, and comes at you again. You call the cops, and damned if some OTHER cop spots the same thug, walking down the middle of the street. After a brief confrontation, the thug is shot dead. Whether through no fault of his own, or possibly he tried to get rough w/ the cop, as he had just gotten rough w/ you.

So, several days later, the cops release a video showing what took place in YOUR store, and that night, it gets looted.

WTF ? You didn't do 1 damn thing wrong, but now you store is boarded up, trashed and you've lost 1000's if not 10's of 1000's of $ in merchandise.

And other stores, besides yours, get looted as well. Again, folks trying to earn a living, who hadn't done 1 damn thing wrong, yet are now facing hardship and may end up having to close up for good.

And folks wonder - ' Why are black neighborhoods stuck w/ higher insurance rates ? It's because of RACISM, isn't it ?? Hell yeah, it HAS to be the racism! American ain't fair ! '

To me, that just sucks.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.
This is like that self-help pablum that they smear on the sick.

What poor neighborhoods need is JOBS. Poor neighborhoods are not about to re-create an entire economy in miniature, independent from the economy that they're embedded in.

So what the militarized police do... what their REAL function is... is to keep the poor folk bottled up in option-less situations in their poor neighborhoods so that wealthy folk can continue to enjoy their safe and comfortable lives.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:13 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Here's what sucks...

You own a store, a mini mart. Some punk teenager comes in, snatches a $ 50 box of faux cigars, and tries to exit the store w/ out paying. You confront him, try to get him to stop, and he, being much bigger than you, shoves you out of the way. You try to keep him from leaving, and comes at you again. You call the cops, and damned if some OTHER cop spots the same thug, walking down the middle of the street. After a brief confrontation, the thug is shot dead. Whether through no fault of his own, or possibly he tried to get rough w/ the cop, as he had just gotten rough w/ you.

So, several days later, the cops release a video showing what took place in YOUR store, and that night, it gets looted.

WTF ? You didn't do 1 damn thing wrong, but now you store is boarded up, trashed and you've lost 1000's if not 10's of 1000's of $ in merchandise.

And other stores, besides yours, get looted as well. Again, folks trying to earn a living, who hadn't done 1 damn thing wrong, yet are now facing hardship and may end up having to close up for good.

And folks wonder - ' Why are black neighborhoods stuck w/ higher insurance rates ? It's because of RACISM, isn't it ?? Hell yeah, it HAS to be the racism! American ain't fair ! '

To me, that just sucks.




Not just higher insurance rates but with no one willing to hire them either. Also very few who want to open a business there. It is one thing to be lower class and something else entirely to have no class. There are many who are stuck with that stigma because of others. People in other communities can not fix that. As I keep saying it has to come from within. People always want to fix the police. That will not change the culture of the community.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Fewer businesses willing to cater to the lower income, and having to charge higher rates, to deal w/ the higher insurance and added security... it's an ugly, self perpetuating cycle.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Except liquor stores and fast food joints.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Except liquor stores and fast food joints.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.



That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.



Spoken like one who completely ignores the facts just posted above.

Sometimes, folks throw away their own lives, and then complain about it being someone else's fault.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:29 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.




Yes to a great extent. Especially if you are void of a back bone and cannot take care of yourself legally. Look at the success rate of graduating high school. Keep in mind these kids are held to a much lower standard then the rest. Many more of less get pushed through.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Except liquor stores and fast food joints.-signy
That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities. -THUGR



Did you know that there have been PROTESTS in poor neighborhoods about the number of liquor stores? That should tell you who YOU'RE dealing with.

It's too bad that these cities are preyed on by the very city councils and planning departments who are as entranced by money as any Wall Street banker.

The rot is just more visible in low-income neighborhoods because there's less money to cover it up. But it's not any different. When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's clear that more education tends to lead to better employment outcomes. Bachelor's degree holders have a lower unemployment rate than high school graduates, who have a lower unemployment rate than high school dropouts.

But educational attainment may not yield the same benefits for everyone. A new study suggests that young black men need two more levels of education to achieve the same employment levels as young white men. Black men age 18 to 34 with some college have roughly the same chance of being employed as white non-Hispanic men who didn't graduate from high school, according to a new analysis of Census data.

Yes, a black male professional (doctor, dentist, professor) has as good a chance of being employed as a white male with an associates degree. THE SYSTEM WORKS!



http://www.vox.com/2014/6/26/5845468/a-black-man-with-a-college-degree
-is-as-likely-to-be-working-as-a





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Crappy and thugr seem to think they have presented facts. I only saw (biased and self-serving) opinions.

When they start posting facts, maybe I'll discuss those facts with them.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:41 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.




Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


^'^
'| |
more useless opinions




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR

When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR

When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.



I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:28 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think there's a problem with the way we deal with crime. We have both the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.



Assuming that you're correct on those stats, ( and I'm not asking for a cite: that's in line with my general impression, based on several things I've seen written somewhere or other. I can't cite a specific source myself. But I believe it's true.) we are, indeed doing something wrong. SO how do we fix it?

IN this political world where many candidates run on a platform of "I'm tough on crime," which is code for "lock 'em all up and throw away the key," ; but " my opponent is soft on law and order," which means "he voted AGAINST the DEATH PENALTY for stealing boxes of cigars ONCE"; with a side order of "Willie Horton-- my opponent would have let him out too, to pillage YOUR neighborhood." ; anybody who advocates any kind of legal system reform is asking to not be re-elected.

But to start off , here are some of my suggestions:

Decriminalize a lot of "victimless" crimes: drug use, simple prostitution ( and I know that's a complex issue... there's lots of abuse and sex slavery in the trade; that's not what I'm talking about. ), morality crimes. Reduce the sentences on the rest of them; none of this " War on Drugs' 25 to life for possession of a single joint" crap.

Reduce draconian "tough on crimes" sentences even on violent crimes. Nobody learns much from a too long sentence, it just warehouses them off the street, so there's no life change in the criminal, no chance to mature or change.

Those 2 right there would reduce the prison overcrowding problem, maybe allow prison folks to focus on those still in the system, either rehabilitate them or if they're really incorrigible, to validly lock 'em up forever.

( And maybe I'm wrong about those 2- maybe those tough on crimes laws are why crime has finally been decreasing nationwide. I haven't see stats on that, but if there are numbers that back that up, I'd love to see them. Maybe what we're doing isn't wrong, maybe it's exactly what needs to be done. If so, we need to embrace that, create prison colonies somewhere-- the Mojave desert? Alaska? the Army? the Moon? and let 'em sort it out their own way.)

Enforce the Death Penalty, for some crimes and in some cases where the factual guilt is not in question-- some criminals are sociopaths or incorrigibles, can't be redeemed, just plain have to be removed. And that includes the mentally damaged or previously abused-- it doesn't matter how they got to where they committed their crime, if they did it and can't be rehabilitated, it's a waste of time, space, and food to warehouse 'em, and a danger to society to ever let 'em out.

Get D.A.'s to stop overcharging on criminal trials, just to plea bargain it down to guilty on a lesser offense.

There are probably other ideas, but I've been working on this post for over an hour, I gotta end it here.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:56 PM

THGRRI


NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote. At least until we notice they are putting people in place who are crime figures themselves. I don’t wish to be negative but it is a real possibility.

No to prison colonies and the death penalty. It actually cost more to execute someone than it does to lock them away for life. Rather than getting DA’s to lessen the charges against defendants I would suggest getting the defendants a better defense. Most defense lawyers are way over worked. Let’s also not forget DA’s like a high conviction rate so many who commit crimes simply walk or as you say plea bargain to get a lesser charge. There should be an independent group that looks for things like this and holds the DA accountable for stacking the deck against a defendant.

If a person from a bad neighborhood does well they leave most of this behind. Yes they are stilled followed in stores but as more join the ranks of the responsible things like that will occur less.



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Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.
Are you white? B/c that's a big set of advantages right there, one white people just accept as a normal circumstance, oblivious to the fact that other people don't have the good fortune that they do. Are you male? (of course you are). That's another big advantage you have that went completely under your radar. Did you attend a suburban or religious school?

I find that many people who overcame a difficulty are extremely self-congratulatory and oblivious to the advantages they did have, and the obstacles other people face. It doesn't make them wiser. It just hardens their minset.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:05 PM

THGRRI


1kiki

You will not get me to suggest that blacks and other minorities are not tread poorly in this country. That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them. When asking Morgan Freeman if color played a big role in why blacks can't get ahead and if that's why their was so much income inequality, he responded not today. In the past yes but not today. He was asked that by another black man and he also said to him just look at you and me. It's not a problem for us.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.
I think there's a problem with the way we deal with crime. We have both the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.


Highest crime rate? You must be joking, right?
Highest reported crime rate, I can believe.
Highest number of claimed victims, I can believe.
Highest number of incidences of activities that no other place in the world considered crimes, I can believe.


Wake up.
Women are PROPERTY in most of the world. You cannot commit crime upon your own property.
Women have no rights in most of the world. The greatest perpetrators of sexual "abuse" in the world are "police" who have no oversight, or written laws to violate (not referring to cops in civilized societies).
Theft in most countries is an art form, not a crime. Many places train and coordinate theft, burglary, pickpocketing wherever tourists can be found.
Traffic laws alone are the source of a great number of "crimes" - but many countries barely have enough cars to have "traffic laws" or the cars are only for the wealthy.
Diamond companies murder entire families and villages if some kid picks up a rock and it is found to be a diamond - that is not against the law, it is "market protection."



Highest crime rate, my muscular buttocks.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime



Cite?






Crassic.


Saw that coming.

Next on BREAKING NEWS: the 3 Billionth anniversary of the Sun rising in the East.
Gotta find cites for that as well.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, no facts. As always.




Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.

Sorry it's locked away from you.


( stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can )


Awesome emoticon, had to quote it.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

-Frem


Really? You mean the kid was high on weed? Carrying burglary tools? attempting to kill an armed non-black person? (OK, I'll give you that one for now, as well as possessing stolen property) Habitual repetitive criminal delinquent?
Just like Trevon Martin?
I had not yet heard all those facts come out.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them.


Not so easy when racism follows you all they way up. A black male professional (doctor, dentist, professor) has the same employment rate as a white male with an associates degree. Are you telling me that that isn't racism? That they somehow magically left it behind?

Now maybe you don't like dealing with FACTS (something you're extremely consistent about is your refusal to say anything factual), but racism is a FACT people live every day. And your smug pronouncements that people can just leave racism behind doesn't change the FACT that it follows them no matter how much they achieve or how hard they work.

So yeah you - white male priviledged - despite your abysmal stupidity.

Oh, and you think Morgan Freeman speaks for all black males and has a lock on THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Really, trully, you are abysmally stupid.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:35 PM

THGRRI


Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police behavior adding to the problem. I would ask them how are the police in their neighborhoods. It would provide for and interesting discussion because I sure the police there are great.


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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:36 PM

THGRRI


No 1kiki what I am telling you is what I am posting. Not what you would like to suggest lies between the lines. What you suggest makes me stupid is what you think I mean not what I am actually saying. Your last post is pure speculation on your park and not what I am saying.

Give me a minute and I will make your case better than you. It's just that what you claim I am saying I am not.

Wait for it.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:53 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.




Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.




That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 4:56 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.




Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.




That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:27 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote.





That was gonna be one of my next points. If rehabilitated, ALL of their citizenship rights should be restored. They've "paid their debt to society," as the old phrase used to go.

But by then my post had already got too long, and I'd spent too long composing it.

This is a topic that needs its own thread. When I get a chance, like maybe tonight or tomorrow, I'll grab up Sig's post, mine and yours, and start one. Or if someone beats me to it, go ahead.

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