REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 06:17
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Monday, August 18, 2014 9:26 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.



British cops are not armed, except with the baton thingee. Australian cops are armed, but dont tend to have the same aggression as Americans. But then we dont have a heavily armed population.

You know who is over represented in our prison population - men - they account for 98 % of all prisoners, which lead me to believe that men as a community are not interested in bettering themselves, and are destructive as a gender and they clearly want easy fixes to improve their lot in life.

Nothing will change so long as the men think it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their lives that are being destroyed, not women's. It's their lives that are disrupted not women. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.





True, women do live longer than men, but the men of the GOP are doing their level best to make sure that's no longer the case. If men are the problem, they'll surely take it out on the women.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 9:34 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

You know who is over represented in our prison population - men - they account for 98 % of all prisoners, which lead me to believe that men as a community are not interested in bettering themselves, and are destructive as a gender and they clearly want easy fixes to improve their lot in life.

Nothing will change so long as the men think it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their lives that are being destroyed, not women's. It's their lives that are disrupted not women. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.



Nice one, Mags. Clever. I plead guilty, but I'm trying to rehabilitate myself.

But ya better watch out. Thug will be insulting you like he has Kiki and Sig and Fern. If you don't like America, maybe you'd better LEAVE it. (OH, you live in Australia-- Well, you'd better leave it FARTHER-- OH, you can't. Well, then you'd better shut up. You don't live here, so you can't possibly understand it. )

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Monday, August 18, 2014 9:54 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


WeWitless News update--
Latest news-- Gov. orders National Guard deployed in Ferguson. ( from the headline over on CNN.com)

Le'see here. "Militarized policing" didn't work, so the Missouri Highway Patrol took over, commanded by a black guy, with a softer approach. That didn't work out either. SO now they've called out the flat-out military.

" Well, goddammit, Bubba, we ain't shot down ANY of them "BLACK community FOLKS" (We usedta call 'em somethin' diff'rent, back in the Good Old Days.) yet fer riotin' in the streets. Just one fer walkin' in it. When we gonna? Huh? Huh?"
"Purty quick now, Cletus. Maybe we oughtta reactivate thuh Klan-- that kep' them uppity troublemakers under control fer quite a spell."
"Dam' straight, Bubbba. Thass whhut the 'Mperial Grand Dragon Wizzard sez."


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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:01 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
You may think the cost of bread is higher



"Well, then , let zem eat cake..." You tell 'em, Marie. But remember, Miseur Guillotine is waiting ..

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:13 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

and one of the reasons I think body cameras are a good idea - shit, *I* wouldn't mind one, cause it would be more efficient than having to whip out and boot up my Vivitar DVR410 when something needs documenting, and I train all my people to behave as if they were on-camera the whole time they're on duty, which is only sensible in that we have a couple of our own and you never know when someone with a cellphone or webcam is going to point it at you, so the simple solution is DON'T DO SHIT YOU DON'T WANT ON TAPE...



Missed this. Exactly right. There was a piece over on Slate.com. advocating that. They cited a town where they did it. Police use of force went down by like 2/3, and complaints went down by like 80 %.

Since Thug doesn't like when I cite anecdotal evidence, I'll have to go over there and provide the link. 'Course that'll still be "anecdotal," but it'll at least be published anecdotal, available to be checked and verified.

And I know I don't have to tell you that. Back in a bit. ( 7:12 AM CA time)

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This time, some people are pissed- not because they don't get to ranch their cattle for free on Federal land, but because of routine and (at times) deadly assaults on their life and liberty.

Guns and Molotov cocktails on one side. APCs, assault weapons, helicopters and teargas on the other side. A real test case for using guns to protect your rights. We get to see who wins.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Back with link and quotes 7:20 AM ( Composed starting at 7:20. not posted 'till 7:28)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/08/
we_know_how_to_decrease_police_violence_like_what_we_ve_seen_after_the_michael.html


Policing the Police

Training, retraining, and yet more training are not the way to stop police brutality.
By LaDoris Hazzard Cordell ( I usually include time and date of publication, but it wasn't there on this article. But there's the link


Quote:


Third, and as Reihan Salam argues today in Slate, every single law enforcement officer should be required to wear body-worn cameras, or BWCs; and every single law enforcement agency should adopt a protocol for the operation of these cameras that strictly regulates when the cameras can be turned off by officers. Bystanders with cameras have changed policing forever. Witness the public outrage after the release of videos that depicted the beating of Marlene Pinnock and the chokehold death of Eric Garner. Police officers should have cameras, too.

BWCs promote transparency in policing, they hold officers and the public accountable for their actions, and they reduce civil litigation. The police department of Rialto, California, has 115 sworn officers. In 2009 it became the first known police department to utilize BWCs. A study that analyzed the use of BWCs in Rialto showed that use of force incidents dropped by 59 percent, and that civilian complaints about police misconduct decreased by 87.5 percent. Those numbers are staggering. The benefit to police and the public of recording police interactions clearly justifies its costs. Even the ACLU has concluded that BWCs assist in holding law enforcement more accountable to the communities that they serve.



Use of force incidents went down by 59%, not 2/3, but I did write " like 2/3". 59% is "like" 67%, at least from memory. And complaints went down by 87.5%, which is "like" 80%, also from memory. High on one, low on the other, those errors oughtta cancel out.


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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:35 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.



I don't see any place where I suggested that. You got a quote? Or is that one of those things "you lefties always do"?

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:40 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.

ANd only shot 6 ties, not 10 as FREM suggested. 'Course one of those 6 was in the top of the head, and one went in near the right eye, came out the jaw, and went in near the collarbone. And none of them were close enough to leave powder burns.

" Now, tell me , Dr. Quincy, what does that suggest, forensically, about the positions and actions of the police officer and the deceased at the moment of the shooting?"

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:53 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.



And, yep, let's unify everyone. Didn't Adolph Shickelgruber have a similar plan? Didn't he deal with a whole bunch of folks for not being "unified"? Unified 'em right into the graveyards and crematoriums, didn't he? Nothin' much more unified that a whole bunch of dead folks.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

" Now, tell me , Dr. Quincy, what does that suggest, forensically, about the positions and actions of the police officer and the deceased at the moment of the shooting?"In the eye, out the jaw, and in the collarbone? No powder burns?


1) Shot from a distance, not in a close-quarter struggle?

2)That unless the bullet ricocheted off a bone - which it sometimes does- wouldn't that mean that the victim was shot along the long axis of the body... ie, like lying down, head raised off the ground?

Oh, as far as "unity" is concerned... it's all right for right-wingers and gun-nuts to threaten the President and defy the law. But it's not all right for black folk!

Rappy's ethics and morals are a matter of convenience. When he, or somebody "like" him, kills someone or shoots at lawmen it's OK. But when someone ELSE does it... someone he doesn't like... it's NOT ok. Clearly, the idea of goose sauce= gander sauce means nothing to him. He IS "the law"... or at least he thinks he should be!


--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:00 AM

FREMDFIRMA


NOBC

Nah, not the projects in Detroit, although we do cover a cemetary there - I call them the Zombie Squad.

My end of things is actually west of Detroit, out in the dead zone of townships between Detroit and Ann Arbor.

The actual company itself split a while back due to a schism in the ranks over taking contracts from TSA/DepHomeSec, which as predicted somewhat later blew up in the faces of those who did, eventually winding up with them handling the bulk of the business and me being little more than an arms-length advisor, mostly I just take my "share" of the proceeds and let them get on with it, laughing up my sleeve whenever they whinge to me about the headaches of trying to run things themselves.

Remember what I said about the worst thing you can do to anyone ?
Well, they wanted to be in charge...

Me and my crew, we played it clever with some loopholes and technically we're now the internal security arm of a commercial realty company, in practice and legally a PMC rather than a security contractor, which allows a LOT more leeway, although we do voluntarily comply with the uniform and equipment guidelines of PL330-1968 out of a sense of professionalism.

Essentially we're the PMC sub-section of a security company, the enforcers which back up the grunts, since technically it's all part of the same LLC, which is handy for obtaining bulk health insurance cause we can squeeze both with the realty corp and the security corp and get better pricing.

Effectively I just run security here these days, and even now do a large part of it myself, up to and including walking rounds - specifically the "wolf hours" just after midnight when yahoos are likely to get up to something and all our damn fools are coming home from the bars.

Dunno that you could say the residents "like" me in a personal sense, I am antisocial, bad tempered and all that, but they damn sure appreciate the hell out of my presence and often leave gifts on my doorstep to show it, mostly cause I do extra stuff beyond just security like handle minor vehicle problems (flats, dead battery, minor mechanical) and automotive lockouts, the latter cause every damn winter several of em wind up locking their keys in the car warming it up, so I went and got the same lockout kit AAA uses.
Not quite as benevolent as it seems though, see, I am keenly aware their rent puts food on my table, ergo I have a vested interest in them getting to work on time, yes ?

Oh, and a somewhat hilarious aside, one of the companies that handles deep city Detroit is DTM, they ARE actually professional security and not half bad at it, but it's that they've adapted this whole "Blackwater" look and style which cracks me the hell up cause it's such total overkill for the situation.
That said, as mentioned below, ten bucks for a sweep and escort is damn cheap - most contract security is on a price/value assessment - hell, you know what portion of a residents monthly rent finances me and the boys ?
Four Bucks.



-Frem

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:32 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Yep, Sig. And the one in the top of the head suggests that the cop was REALLY, REALLY tall...

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:35 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Frem, sorry if my errors in any way offended you. The things I wrote were how I remembered it from things you wrote. And pretty close, as viewed from L.A. But I do appreciate you setting the record straight for the sake of accuracy.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 12:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Pish, not offended, no.

Oh, and clarification, Brown was HIT six times, but the officer FIRED ten.
One was the wild shot which went off inside the vehicle, the other nine were at Brown, so three misses.

Yanno 66% is piss poor accuracy for that range and situation, but that does tend to happen when one gets all emotionally involved.

ETA: Just got the word - they're sending in the National Guard, yeah that'll calm things down, NOT!
Seriously, they keep doubling down on the stupid/provocation here.

Seems I ain't the only one offended by such dumbassery.
Dumbest Police Chief in America
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/dumbest-police-chief-america?p
aging=off¤t_page=1

Quote:

I am scratching my head over how it is humanly possible to be as clueless as the St. Louis County and Ferguson police departments. To make one mistake is understandable but to have EVERYTHING you do be a complete fuck up is astounding.


More useful though is some from the on-scene Aldernman, Antonio French.
Meet the St. Louis Alderman Who's Keeping an Eye on Ferguson's Cops
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/antonio-french-ferguson-vi
nes-arrest

Quote:

If you watched some truly jaw-dropping Vines of tear-gassing and smoke-bomb-throwing from Ferguson this week, chances are they came from Antonio French, the social-media-loving St. Louis alderman who's been spending lots of time with the protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, since the shooting of Michael Brown.


-F

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Monday, August 18, 2014 12:29 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


more--more-more--

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
?hpt=hp_t1


Autopsy results enough to charge officer, Brown family attorney says
By Steve Kastenbaum and Holly Yan, CNN
August 18, 2014 -- Updated 1538 GMT (2338 HKT)


to CNN affiliates KMOV, KSDK, KTVI and KPLR.
Quote:


Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- An independent autopsy into the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, provides "ample" evidence to support the arrest of the police officer who shot him, family attorney Daryl Parks said Monday at a news conference.

Parks was particularly concerned about gunshots that medical examiners hired by the family indicate came from behind and above.

"Why would he be shot in the very top of his head, a 6-foot-4 man?" Parks asked. "Makes no sense."

The autopsy could support witnesses' suggestions that Brown was holding his hands up in the air, said Shawn Purcell, who assisted in the autopsy. But other scenarios are possible, said Dr. Michael Baden, who supervised the inquiry.
A diagram from the autopsy shows entry and exit wounds.


But nothing in the autopsy suggested that Brown had engaged in a struggle, Baden said. Police have said that Brown reached into Officer Darren Wilson's car in a tussle over his gun.



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Monday, August 18, 2014 12:37 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


FRem,
Didn't think you were offended, but I apologized just in case, 'cuz I have good manners usually. Also thanks for the correction on shots: 10 fired, 6 hits. Appreciate that also, for the sake of accuracy. Hadn't seen anything reported but the 6 hits.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 12:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The family's attorney says?

LOL

Really. That's funny.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 1:31 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-ferguson-national-guard/
index.html?iid=article_sidebar


Why bring National Guard to Ferguson?
By Josh Levs, CNN
August 18, 2014 -- Updated 1613 GMT (0013 HKT)
Quote:


CNN) -- By calling National Guard troops into Ferguson, Missouri, authorities are taking the situation "to the opposite extreme of community policing," a former FBI assistant director says.

Tom Fuentes, a CNN law enforcement analyst, notes that just a few days ago, authorities were out on the streets shaking hands with marchers. Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri State Highway Patrol "was like Gandhi, promising to ensure their safety," Fuentes said.

But growing violence -- amid protests over the shooting death of unarmed teen Michael Brown by a police officer -- changed the situation.

"Given these deliberate, coordinated and intensifying violent attacks on lives and property in Ferguson, I am directing the highly capable men and women of the Missouri National Guard ... in restoring peace and order to this community," Gov. Jay Nixon said in a statement Monday.

Police in the Ferguson area, just like many all over the country, have military equipment, which they used last week. So why bring in the Guard at all?

"You don't want extremely tired, fatigued, overtaxed police officers out there day after day, night after night," Fuentes said. And state patrol officers who came in from out of town and are staying hotels, working around the clock, are surely getting fatigued as well, he said.
New video shows moments after shooting
Stunning images of unrest in Ferguson
Ferguson and race relations in America

"You don't need more military equipment; it's more of a manpower issue."

But there are other reasons it may make sense to replace police on the scene, analysts say.

Members of the National Guard may better follow a "unified chain of command," said Jason Fritz, an Army veteran and senior editor of War on the Rocks, which analyzes national security issues.

In this case, that could be a big improvement. "I've never seen such a disjointed police effort as this," Fuentes said. Emphasis mine. NOBC

Nixon said the Guard will assist Col. Ron Replogle, head of the State Highway Patrol, "in restoring peace and order to this community."

If military police are among the Guard troops, they'll have special training in crowd control that may help, Fritz says.

Fuentes rejects that idea, saying National Guard troops' training does not prepare them for situations like this. "It's not their mission to do local law enforcement," he said.

But Fuentes and Fritz agree on another big reason it might make sense to bring in the National Guard: Residents are fed up with the police.

Marchers have accused police of responding with disproportionate violence against a mostly peaceful crowd. And residents have described protesters helping protect stores from being looted while police did nothing.


Police also infuriated protesters by releasing a video that they said shows Michael Brown involved in a convenience store robbery -- even though police themselves have said it does not relate to the police officer having stopped Brown as he was walking down the street.

By bringing in National Guard troops, Nixon is moving both Ferguson and St. Louis County police out of the way.

"That might be enough," Fritz said.



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Monday, August 18, 2014 1:39 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.



I don't see any place where I suggested that. You got a quote? Or is that one of those things "you lefties always do"?



Yo, Rappenfuhrer I know you SUCK , especially at answering follow up questions when challenged.

But are you planning to answer this one?

You seem to be accusing me of suggesting something. I claim that I did not do that, and asked for you to back up the accusation.

You planning to answer this one, or you just hoping it'll go away. ?

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Monday, August 18, 2014 1:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Assisting another party with timelime reconstruction of events, and a couple things jumped out at me worth noting.

1. There was an L-RAD deployed, dunno if they used it though, we're having some technical difficulties with the telepresence rig at the moment.
Update: Confirmed, it was used.

2. At one point when the crowd was "peaceful", a local police cruiser rolled up at speed from the side, dismounted four officers who then emptied the shotguns they were carrying (rubber bullets) at the protestors, jumped back in and drove away.
That smacks of deliberate provocation, and Jamie is going through the available photos to see what can be found.

3. One hour BEFORE the curfew, the cops set up barricades to block retreat and *then* teargassed the protestors, yeah that ain't helpin matters any.

4. Analysis of radio comm traffic indicates internal conflict between state police trying to chill the situation, and ferguson police intent on winding it up as an excuse to "kick some asses".
Update: Some of this radio traffic is quite frankly, downright incriminating, and will be passed on to USDOJ.

5. The so-called molotovs thrown at police were in most cases, protestors throwing the cops own tear gas rounds BACK at them, which is bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain (which obviously excludes Breitbart) upon viewing the pictures.

6. Deliberate targeting of journalists by both police factions, in one case on express orders of state police captain.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/police-in
-ferguson-arrest-and-threaten-more-journalists
/

More to come maybe, if we can sort out what the hell is wrong with the TP rig and find someone brave enough to step out into that mess with it deployed.

-F

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Monday, August 18, 2014 2:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
WeWitless News update--
Latest news-- Gov. orders National Guard deployed in Ferguson. ( from the headline over on CNN.com)

Le'see here. "Militarized policing" didn't work, so the Missouri Highway Patrol took over, commanded by a black guy, with a softer approach. That didn't work out either. SO now they've called out the flat-out military.

" Well, goddammit, Bubba, we ain't shot down ANY of them "BLACK community FOLKS" (We usedta call 'em somethin' diff'rent, back in the Good Old Days.) yet fer riotin' in the streets. Just one fer walkin' in it. When we gonna? Huh? Huh?"
"Purty quick now, Cletus. Maybe we oughtta reactivate thuh Klan-- that kep' them uppity troublemakers under control fer quite a spell."
"Dam' straight, Bubbba. Thass whhut the 'Mperial Grand Dragon Wizzard sez."




Here.

Citing stereotypical hayseed bumpkins Cletus & Bubba and then the kkk reference pretty much says it all.


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Monday, August 18, 2014 3:35 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nobc - siding with the rule of law, not tolerating looting & violent robbery can't be painted as being " racist ", at any time. Because it isn't. Suggesting such does the opposite of unifying everyone.



I don't see any place where I suggested that. You got a quote? Or is that one of those things "you lefties always do"?



Yo, Rappenfuhrer I know you SUCK , especially at answering follow up questions when challenged.

But are you planning to answer this one?

You seem to be accusing me of suggesting something. I claim that I did not do that, and asked for you to back up the accusation.

You planning to answer this one, or you just hoping it'll go away. ?



What, you expected him not to be a chickenshit coward?



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Monday, August 18, 2014 4:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Classic storybook FAIL.

I addressed the question, 2 replies above, and you STILL were such a d-bag , you went ahead and tried to claim I didn't by calling me a coward.

Be a man and apologize for being wrong.

Again.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 4:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


And another thing...

No one is suggesting that even with young Michael having roughed up the store clerk and stealing $ 50.00 worth of cheap cigars did he DESERVED to die.

There still is the matter of what exactly took place when he encountered the cop.

The cop didn't know M.B. was a suspect, but because M.B. had just committed a strong arm robbery, he likely DID assume the cop was coming after him.

So far, the claims that the cop shot M.B. in the back have proven false. Makes one wonder what ELSE some have claimed took place didn't happen either.

That STILL does not clear the cop of being accused of 2nd degree murder, or what ever the charge he gets. And yes, I do expect something to happen to the cop, as the case proceeds.

Whether a hardened criminal or a choir boy, I still haven't seen evidence which justifies M.B. being on the receiving end of 6 + shots fired by the cop.

WAS he trying to wrestle the gun away from the officer ? IF that's found to be the case, then sadly , it may be the tragic conclusion of some really poor judgements made by a young man that day, resulting in his death.

Tox results still have to come in too, so folks need to chill the hell out and back off before they start making more baseless accusations.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 6:18 PM

THGRRI


All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?

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Monday, August 18, 2014 6:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Haven't read the whole thread.\
6 foot 4 inch 300 pound criminal attacks officer.
Let's believe the criminal's partners in crime instead.
officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 8:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


" What do you call 6 dead and 25 wounded ? A weekend in Chicago " - Greg Gutfeld.

And yet, where are the Media ? Jessie ? Al ?

Ferguson, MO.



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Monday, August 18, 2014 8:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?mid=982602

The bullet that killed Mr. Brown entered the top of his head and came out through the front at an angle that suggested his head was facing downward when he was killed, Mr. Parks said. What the autopsy did not show was what Mr. Brown was doing at the moment he was struck in the head.

“Why would he be shot in the very top of his head, a 6-foot-4 man?” he said. “It makes no sense. And so that’s what we have. That’s why we believe that those two things alone are ample for this officer to be arrested.”

Another outstanding question was whether Mr. Brown was struck as he ran away from the police officer. Prof. Shawn L. Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas who assisted Dr. Baden, said that one of the wounds on Mr. Brown’s arm could have been caused by a bullet fired from in front or behind.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 8:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?



They didn't. They were LYING.


I heard one girl swear that Brown wasn't wearing the same clothes as he was in the video, and that the cops had " photo shopped " the video.

Now hold up a sec. Why would the cops go to all the trouble of photo shopping a security cam video ( I guess they have Industrial Light and Magic talent down at the Ferguson P.D., huh ?) and not have him wearing the same clothes as when he was shot, just a few minutes later. Even though the lawyer for the accomplice admits that the 2 in the video cam were in fact his client and the deceased.

Also, there was a guy caught on a cell phone video, after the shooting, saying that M.B. actually came BACK and was charging the officer. It was a casual conversation, caught on audio, shortly after the shooting, but before all the ruckus had taken place.

I'm telling you, the agents of deception and chaos are working over time on this, as they ALWAYS do to promote a certain agenda. Never mind the actual facts.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 9:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Were any cigars found?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Were any cigars found?




OMG ! Nancy Drew, you've done it ! You've cracked the case !!!

Never mind that lawyer for the accomplice has already identified both males as being the ones who were in the store, and robbed ( he corrected himself and said - TOOK ) the cigars.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/08/15/Lawyer-Confirms-Brown
-Took-Cigars-From-Store


Good grief.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:04 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?




Cites?


You claim *ALL* the witnesses said this. Prove it.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA





And we're supposed to buy that shit from Breitbart, the same shitheads who posted a pic of a protestor throwing a tear gas grenade BACK at the cops while insisting it was a fuckin molotov ?
Riiiiight.

And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.
http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doe
snt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video
/
Quote:

The surveillance tapes supposedly shows Michael Brown “robbing” a Ferguson convenience store market. But in spite of the fact that the “robbery” was carried out without the brandishing of a weapon, and in spite of the fact that this was really more a case of petty theft shoplifting, this Friday, for the first time, the owners of the store have said that they never said they believed Michael Brown was the individual who stole the item from their store.

In fact, while the owners are speaking out through an attorney about the surveillance video, the mainstream, corporate media are largely ignoring everything they said, pretending that this video definitively identifies Michael Brown as the strong arm shoplifter.


The owners claim that this is a claim the police have come up with on their own. For his part, Dorian Johnson, a witness to the shooting of Michael Brown, has reportedly confessed to being with Brown in the convenient store. But for now, that has not been corroborated by the store owner, employees or eye witnesses. As well, we are not hearing this from Johnson himself, so a number of questions remain.

Through their attorney, the owner of the store also even dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911. They say that a customer inside the store made the call. This is pretty strange if this was indeed a “robbery”.

As well, in addition to clarifying that they never said they believed, nor identified the suspect with Michael Brown, they claimed that the St. Louis County issued the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday, based on the police claiming that Brown fit the description of the person in the video… the person who the owners and employees of the store were not even going to call the police on. Again, the owner clarifies that neither the management, nor any employee ever identified Brown as the suspect in that video.

They simply never said they believed that, this was a claim made by the police alone. So the real question is why the media has been taking the word of the police on this matter, even over the word of the eye witnesses and the store owner?


Chances are it's a deliberate, out of context clip of a personal issue which simply happened to occur in the store, used in an attempt to bias the public, media and potential jury pool - typical police SOP for these kind of situations, and we're all well aware of it.

As for events on the ground, the dedicated "press area" (See Also: Free Speech Zone) was set up 2.5 MILES from the action initially, and police were giving the press conflicting directions to confuse them and send them on wild goose chases.

Unusually for a situation like this I can confirm the police forces WERE actually taking some return fire, most of it from long range but it was definately present, which TOTALLY freaked out the police, guess they weren't expecting *that*, although given the level of provocation and pressure they should have been.

Here's some raw coverage from VICE news.



What, they thought they could infinitely abuse an entire neighborhood and NOT get shot at ?

-Frem

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:25 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


The autopsy doctor found it inconclusive.

At this point, what the hell difference does it make?
The kid got shot 6 times - twice in the head - WTF was that cop thinking?
There is no crime in the world that could warrant being shot 6 times - not jaywalking, not shoplifting a handful of cigarillos.

Forget all the riots, which, by the way, speaks to a systematic ill treatment of a particular group of people. Forget the politics, police reports, jurisdiction, Civil rights and poverty......................

The boy was shot 6 times after putting his hands up in surrender.
That's seriously sick in the grand scheme of things. That is beyond excessive force, it is de-humanizing in every sense of the word.

What was the mental state of the officer who shot another human 6 times?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Chances are it's a deliberate, out of context clip of a personal issue which simply happened to occur in the store ...


I watched the video. Brown asks someone out of camera range behind the counter for some items. Some are handed to him and he hands them to his friend to hold. He talks with the person behind the counter some more and after a time the person behind the counter hands him some items, which Brown holds. After some more conversation Brown hands them back to the person behind the counter, gestures to his friend and gets those items as well and hands them back. All of this is on camera. The next thing you see is Brown and his friend walking toward the camera and picking something up off the floor outside of camera range.

What did the store person do - throw the cigars at them out of camera range in ill temper? it sure looks that way to me. Up until that point, all of the cigars are visibly accounted for and behind the counter.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

At this point, what the hell difference does it make?
The kid got shot 6 times - twice in the head - WTF was that cop thinking?
There is no crime in the world that could warrant being shot 6 times - not jaywalking, not shoplifting a handful of cigarillos.



A struggle for the cop's gun might.



Also...

Quote:

And we're supposed to buy that shit from Breitbart, the same shitheads who posted a pic of a protestor throwing a tear gas grenade BACK at the cops while insisting it was a fuckin molotov ?
Riiiiight.

And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.



You dismiss Breitbart, but then go on to cite CCN ? ROFLMAO !!!!

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

I doubt very much there was any " insisting " of anything, as you claim. Molotov cocktails were thrown. If some intern misidentified an object being thrown in a photo, does that mean the event didn't take place ?

Who the hell is CCN ? One of PN's rivals ?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:04 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tox results still have to come in too



Just saw a reference to that. (Oops, better provide a link.) He is reported to have had marijuana in his system. We all know how that stuff turns people into crazed invulnerable killers. 'Specially members of the "black community." White folks it just causes cravings for pizza and Snickers bars.

Also saw a (conservative) website (Damn, I'm gonna have to go back and FIND the site again, and provide a link. YA know how some people just hate "anecdotal evidence". But I did see it. ) that reported several things I hadn't seen anywhere else: Brown wanted to be, or was, a rapper. We all know that EVERY SINGLE ONE of THEM is a criminal; there's video of him flashing "gang signs". That one might be true, actually; and, (same site) a motivation for stealing the box of cigars, worth almost $50-- that's 80 to 100 of 'em. Turns out drug dealers hollow out those Swisher Sweets and refill them with MJ. (I hadn't known that.) So he was, "really", a "drug dealer", not a good kid going off to college. High level, too, probably a wholesaler.

Now, I don't know. Are those true, relevant facts about his real character, or just more character assassination? And is any of it relevant to the police officer's original action, stopping these 2 guys for walking down the middle of a street? Did he, or the police chief, know about any of those things? Back later with links.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:17 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.



saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:21 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Also, there was a guy caught on a cell phone video, after the shooting, saying that M.B. actually came BACK and was charging the officer. It was a casual conversation, caught on audio, shortly after the shooting, but before all the ruckus had taken place.





And I'm sure you can provide a link to that item of "anecdotal evidence."

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

Do you agree with the following? (It's a trick question.)

"We know that America is exceptional in one key respect—we came to democracy without much bloodshed. Around the world, from Hungary and Russia to Iraq and Nigeria, we see the dream of peaceful democratization dragged again and again to what the philosopher Hegel called the slaughter-bench of history. Racial strife and murderous governments, not liberty and democracy, are the rule in history, the established pattern. We know that, mercifully, democratization scourged us only once in ferociously modern style: during the Civil War."

The trick is that the last sentence here nullifies the first. Some 600,000 Americans--2.5 percent of the American population--died in the Civil War. What came before this was a long bloody war--enslavement--against black families, black communities and black bodies. What came after was a terrorist regime which ruled an entire swath of this country by fire and rope. That regime was not overthrown until an era well within the living memory of many Americans. Taken all together, the body count that led us to our present tenuous democratic moment does not elevate us above the community of nations, but installs us uncomfortably within its ranks. And that is terrifying because it shows us to be neither providential nor exceptional, and only special in the subjective sense that our families are special--because they are ours. www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/Reparations-For-Ferguson/
376098
/

I just want to note that Ferguson Missouri was in the Confederacy. The Confederacy recognized the pro-Confederate claimants in both Kentucky and Missouri and laid claim to those states, granting them Congressional representation and adding two stars to the Confederate flag.

Not so bad as Georgia and Mississippi, but lynchings happened in Missouri, too. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchstats.html

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:34 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Were any cigars found?




OMG ! Nancy Drew, you've done it ! You've cracked the case !!!

Never mind that lawyer for the accomplice has already identified both males as being the ones who were in the store, and robbed ( he corrected himself and said - TOOK ) the cigars.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/08/15/Lawyer-Confirms-Brown
-Took-Cigars-From-Store


Good grief.


Well, I asked for a link. You did provide one. Thank you.

Now, about the question of Breibart's credibility...

And of course, the actual quote in the Breibart piece is of someone saying, "the guy on CNN said..." That's actually called hearsay, and normally inadmissable in any criminal case, I'd REALLY like to see the source video, where the CNN guy actually says that.

Also in the Breibart piece, a claim that the other thug (pardon me, member of the black community.) said that Brown took a "pack" of cigars. A "pack" of Swishers in usually a 5 pack, isn't it? That's what I see in MY local 7-11's. But the reports have Brown stealing a $50 "box" of cigars.

Kinda like the difference between a 6 pack of beer, and a case of beer, isn't it?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:54 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



I heard one girl swear that Brown wasn't wearing the same clothes as he was in the video, and that the cops had " photo shopped " the video.

Now hold up a sec. Why would the cops go to all the trouble of photo shopping a security cam video ( I guess they have Industrial Light and Magic talent down at the Ferguson P.D., huh ?) and not have him wearing the same clothes as when he was shot, just a few minutes later. Even though the lawyer for the accomplice admits that the 2 in the video cam were in fact his client and the deceased.




I saw a video, supposedly of the liquor store incident, but it was totally crap quality. I couldn't make out enough detail to identify the person in it. Wanted it to be of adequate quality for me to try, or at least get enough detail to evaluate his clothes. And there wasn't enough. So I dismissed it, as valueless. 'Course, I didn't try REAL hard. And I haven't seen a worthwhile picture of what Brown looked like, or what he was wearing when shot, to compare against.

One thing I was able to see: whoever the person was, he DID have a package of Swisher Sweets tucked, like, under his arm or in his back pocket. (That's what I saw, from memory. It was several days ago. I ain't testifying to this in court. If I was, I'd go review the tape, verify what there is to see, and analyze my thought process and impressions.) Those I have seen, those I did recognize. And what I thought I saw was a flat pack, a six pack, not a "box" like a "big box" that would be worth 50 bucks. Ain't sayin' I'm not wrong, but that's the impression I got, a very strong impression. If I had to prove it, I'd have to go back and work it over.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:10 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Up until that point, all of the cigars are visibly accounted for and behind the counter.





Wondered about that one also. In every 7-11 I've been in out here in CAlifornia, ALL tobacco products are kept behind the counter. BECAUSE they're a target of shoplifting. And because the clerk is supposed to not sell them to minors, to check ID if in doubt. In really bad areas, all of the candy is kept right in front of the cash register, 'cause even the kids will shoplift it. And that's packs of Camels, and 6-packs of Swishers, never mind the $ 50 boxes of 'em. If I had an easily shopliftable item worth 50 bucks in MY liquor store, it wouldn't be out on the floor somewhere, it would be behind the counter.

And that's another good question--Is it legal for a liquor store in Missouri to sell tobacco products to minors? Do they have those "If you look like you're under 30, we'll ask for ID." signs back there? If so, didn't the clerk ask? If he did, wouldn't he check the birth date, name and picture? Just to make sure the ID isn't from "I. M. Whitey," when presented by a 6-4 black dude? Maybe he'd remember, especially right after a shoplifting and assault incident?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:29 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


quote somebody else, Maybe FREM? NOBC added this, it's not quoted from RAP.
E-T-A Not Frem. Shiny GG. Sorry, Frem. BAck to the quote...

E-T-A some more. found the ORIGINAL post again. It was FREM. NOBC sez: "Hey, last time I was wrong was when I thought I made a mistake...."
Gonna keep correcting myself until I get it RIGHT. Sorry if my errors offend anyone.

Quote:


And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.



You dismiss Breitbart, but then go on to cite CCN ? ROFLMAO !!!!



Who the hell is CCN ? One of PN's rivals ?



And then you dismiss CCN with "ROLFMAO", only to come back a couple of lines later to ask " who the hell is CCN?" Either you're too busy snarking at CNN and only caught the typo later, or you got no business ROFLing at them without knowing who they are. If you don't know who they are, how can you know that they aren't THE authoritative source on the matter?

Your logic is flawed.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Also, there was a guy caught on a cell phone video, after the shooting, saying that M.B. actually came BACK and was charging the officer. It was a casual conversation, caught on audio, shortly after the shooting, but before all the ruckus had taken place.





And I'm sure you can provide a link to that item of "anecdotal evidence."



Heard the audio of it on the radio, but I'll try to track it down as time permits.

Frem's Counter current News ( CCN ) isn't a typo for CNN.

Try to keep up.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:11 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tox results still have to come in too



Just saw a reference to that. (Oops, better provide a link.) He is reported to have had marijuana in his system.







http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2014/0818/After-autopsy-Mike-B
rown-s-parents-call-for-officer-s-arrest-video



Quote:



The retired examiner also emphasized that he would need a toxicology report to comment on a claim, made by a police source quoted in The Washington Post on Monday, that the county police's autopsy found marijuana in Brown's system.





http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/county-in
vestigation-michael-brown-was-shot-from-the-front-had-marijuana-in-his-system
/

just the header and by-line from the Washington Post:

County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system
By Emily Wax-Thibodeaux, Wesley Lowery and Mark Berman August 18 at 12:34 PM ?

****************************************************************************
Te "retired medical examiner" is Dr. Baden, who conducted the second autopsy.

CSM is highly regarded as reliable and objective.

It appears that the original source was within the Police Dept.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:33 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:


Also saw a (conservative) website (Damn, I'm gonna have to go back and FIND the site again, and provide a link. YA know how some people just hate "anecdotal evidence". But I did see it. ) that reported several things I hadn't seen anywhere else: Brown wanted to be, or was, a rapper. We all know that EVERY SINGLE ONE of THEM is a criminal; there's video of him flashing "gang signs". That one might be true, actually; and, (same site) a motivation for stealing the box of cigars, worth almost $50-- that's 80 to 100 of 'em. Turns out drug dealers hollow out those Swisher Sweets and refill them with MJ. (I hadn't known that.) So he was, "really", a "drug dealer", not a good kid going off to college. High level, too, probably a wholesaler.

Now, I don't know. Are those true, relevant facts about his real character, or just more character assassination? And is any of it relevant to the police officer's original action, stopping these 2 guys for walking down the middle of a street? Did he, or the police chief, know about any of those things? Back later with links.



OK, this ain't what I saw, but a report about it. I think what I saw was the original pieces referred to here.



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-rap-lyrics-ferguso
n-shooting



TPM LIVEWIRE

Far Right Says Michael Brown's Raps Show He Was 'A Criminal And A Thug'

ByDYLAN SCOTTPublishedAUGUST 18, 2014, 10:31 AM EDT 14446 Views


Quote:


Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was shot on Aug. 9 by a Ferguson, Mo., police officer, was an aspiring hip-hop artist. The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday on Brown's SoundCloud page, a collection of amateur rap songs that Brown had posted before his death.

They contained much of the imagery and language common to so-called gangster rap. Pictures of Brown flashing alleged gang signs have also circulated in the conservative blogosphere.

FrontPage magazine, the online home of David Horowitz, whose self-described mission is to battle the radical left, labeled Brown "a criminal and a thug" in its summary of his character, which featured the rap lyrics.

"The fact that Brown liked performing thug music obviously doesn’t by itself make him a thug, but it does provide insight into his state of mind," the site said. "The same can be said for the photographs that have surfaced of Brown posing like a tough guy, making gestures with his hands that some say are gang signs."

FrontPage magazine, and others, connected Brown's rap lyrics with the police report released Friday that said he was the "primary suspect" in a convenience store robbery that occurred minutes before he was shot. That report's release, which was reportedly opposed by the Justice Department, has been criticized by Brown's family and public officials as an attempt to paint a negative public image of Brown.

"Well, this kind of destroys the ‘gentle giant’ narrative spun in the media," ClashDaily, the website of Doug Giles, who occasionally writes for the more well-known TownHall.com, said in its summary of Brown's songs.

The conspiratorial website World Net Daily connected Brown's professed marijuana smoking in the songs with his alleged robbery of some cigarillos -- which are "widely known to be used by marijuana smokers, who roll their own blunts by replacing the cigarillos’ tobacco with pot" -- on the day of the shooting.

"I didn’t go through the entire catalogue, but it’s pretty obscene, though standard rap fare these days," conservative blogger SooperMexican said in his own post. "Of course, none of this means he is guilty of what the police claim he did, but it adds another dimension to the character of Mike Brown."

"Draw your own conclusions."





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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:50 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

Do you agree with the following? (It's a trick question.)

"We know that America is exceptional in one key respect—we came to democracy without much bloodshed. Around the world, from Hungary and Russia to Iraq and Nigeria, we see the dream of peaceful democratization dragged again and again to what the philosopher Hegel called the slaughter-bench of history. Racial strife and murderous governments, not liberty and democracy, are the rule in history, the established pattern. We know that, mercifully, democratization scourged us only once in ferociously modern style: during the Civil War."

The trick is that the last sentence here nullifies the first. Some 600,000 Americans--2.5 percent of the American population--died in the Civil War. What came before this was a long bloody war--enslavement--against black families, black communities and black bodies. What came after was a terrorist regime which ruled an entire swath of this country by fire and rope. That regime was not overthrown until an era well within the living memory of many Americans. Taken all together, the body count that led us to our present tenuous democratic moment does not elevate us above the community of nations, but installs us uncomfortably within its ranks. And that is terrifying because it shows us to be neither providential nor exceptional, and only special in the subjective sense that our families are special--because they are ours. www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/Reparations-For-Ferguson/
376098
/

I just want to note that Ferguson Missouri was in the Confederacy. The Confederacy recognized the pro-Confederate claimants in both Kentucky and Missouri and laid claim to those states, granting them Congressional representation and adding two stars to the Confederate flag.

Not so bad as Georgia and Mississippi, but lynchings happened in Missouri, too. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchstats.html



2 points, not necessarily arguin' with you :

"We know that America is exceptional in one key respect—we came to democracy without much bloodshed."

Ah, yepper. After that first Tea Party, the one in Boston Harbor, there was the Boston Massacre, and this little thing called the American Revolution. No bloodshed there.


" I just want to note that Ferguson Missouri was in the Confederacy. The Confederacy recognized the pro-Confederate claimants in both Kentucky and Missouri and laid claim to those states, granting them Congressional representation and adding two stars to the Confederate flag."

If I remember my history courses correctly, Missouri was officially a "border state," divided in its loyalty. There were a LOT of Confederate supporters there, including Sam Clemens, who went off to attempt to join the Confederate Army, but got lost on the way and went back home. Not sure exactly where Ferguson stood then, if it did, politically or geographically, but it, and a lot of the state certainly lines up with the "Old South" attitude today.

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