REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Wonder why health care costs so much? Here's a couple of reasons...

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Thursday, August 21, 2014 23:35
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Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:23 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


...both from today's Washington Post.


Quote:

A blood test can cost from $10 to $10,000 in Calif. hospitals, according to a study.

Imagine walking into a hospital and being charged more than $10,000 for a blood test to check your cholesterol level. Imagine then going to another hospital in the same state and being charged $10 for the same test.

That’s what a team led by a researcher at the University of California at San Francisco found when it looked at the prices California hospitals charge for 10 common blood tests.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-blood-test-can
-cost-from-10-to-10000-in-calif-hospitals-according-to-a-study/2014/08/16/aba02472-24ae-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html


Quote:



LOS ANGELES — In the little office where they ran the scam, a cellphone would ring on Sonia Bonilla’s desk. That was the sound of good news: Somebody had found them a patient.

When Bonilla answered the phone, one of the scam’s professional “patient recruiters” would read off the personal data of a senior citizen. Name. DOB. Medicare ID number. Bonilla would hang up and call Medicare, the enormous federal health-insurance program for those over 65.

She asked a single question: Had the government ever bought this patient a power wheelchair?

No? Then the scam was off and running.

“If they did not have one, they would be taken to the doctor, so the doctor could prescribe a chair for them,” Bonilla recalled. On a log sheet, Bonilla would make a note that the recruiter was owed an $800 finder’s fee. “They were paid for each chair.”

This summer, in a Los Angeles courtroom, Bonilla described the workings of a peculiar fraud scheme that — starting in the mid-1990s — became one of the great success stories in American crime.

The sucker in this scheme was the U.S. government. That wasn’t the peculiar part.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/08/16/a-medicare-scam-t
hat-just-kept-rolling/?hpid=z1


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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:52 PM

ELVISCHRIST




Sounds like a couple great examples of why we need stronger regulations of the medical field.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:13 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


NPR (or at least KPPC, the L.A. NPR outlet) has started running a survey, building a data base, of prices for common medical procedures at LA hospitals. They did one on mammograms; they're doing one on MRI's for back pain. They were comparing total price, insurance re-imbursement, cash out of pocket. ON mammograms, the highest price they got was double the lowest. Main issue, nobody would tell them up front what the usual cost at their facility was, what additional charges there would be. Some hospitals, there would be a fee for the procedure, then a separate fee for a doctor-specialist to evaluate the results.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 12:51 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Geezer - these are private businesses making a profit. And you have a problem with that? I thought it was your first commandant.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 7:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I thought it was your first commandant.



No. Col. Klink was my first Commandant.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, August 18, 2014 9:15 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

No. Col. Klink was my first Commandant.





spoken like a good little Nazi.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yea, the reason why healthcare costs so much is because of these nice little "free enterprise" units running a fraud... and that is somehow the gummint's fault?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:15 AM

FREMDFIRMA



That's one thing what pisses me off, royally so - IMHO doctors are just mechanics for the human body, not petty tin gods, okay ?

Well, when I take my car to a mechanic, he hands me a written estimate BEFORE he puts wrench to bolt, and I can decide whether I think he's a crook, fulla shit, or trying to rip me off or not BEFORE money changes hands.

This doesn't happen in the medical profession, nope, you're stuck with whatever they choose to bill you, and some of those Chargemaster pricings are fucking ridiculous - nor can you insist on it cause most of em the billing is seperate from the practice so they don't even KNOW what or how much you'll be billed for, and that's just bullshit, far as I am concerned.

SEVEN GODDAMN TIMES I told UofM's prosthetics dept to inform me of out-of-pocket costs prior to inflicting them, twice in writing, but nope, completely ignored and that xmas what do I find in my mailbox but a bill for almost $4000.00 - this is AFTER the deductibles mind you, and for a prosthetic so poorly built and badly fitted it's unuseable, nor can I have it modified and refitted cause I cannot afford what would be billed for that.... merry fuckin xmas, yeah.

Oh, and the wheelchair thing, tis what I call bullshit cost - the provider doesn't pay that, the supplier doesn't actually bill that, it's all a sham and a scam to run out your coverage faster and fuck YOU with enormous bills you don't have the legal clout to force a write-down on.

Case in point, wheelchair via medicare, $825.69, after deductible your cost out of pocket $248.90
SAME FUCKING WHEELCHAIR, at Harbor Freight $119.99

And so forth and so on, Doctor Belk breaks it down real well here.
http://www.truecostofhealthcare.org/

-Frem

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:17 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:


Sounds like a couple great examples of why we need stronger regulations of the medical field.



Don't it though?



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Monday, August 18, 2014 11:21 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


but are you sure the whole thing isn't Obama's fault , somehow?

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Monday, August 18, 2014 5:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


From what I have heard anecdotally (before OC) about your system is that it's overly reliant on expensive, largely unnecessary testing. In the end it becomes about money making and profits, which I dont think health care, nor prisons, nor public transport nor a whole lot of other industries, should be about.

Firstly, over reliance on tests deskills medical professionals and their diagnostic abilities.

Secondly, it bloats out medical costs.

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Monday, August 18, 2014 10:43 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
From what I have heard anecdotally (before OC) about your system is that it's overly reliant on expensive, largely unnecessary testing. In the end it becomes about money making and profits, which I dont think health care, nor prisons, nor public transport nor a whole lot of other industries, should be about.





In America today, sadly, all of those things and more have become growth industries and profit centers for greedy corporations.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

No. Col. Klink was my first Commandant.





spoken like a good little Nazi.



Nope. I was one of Hogan's Heroes, after I moved from Stalag 17 but before I made my Great Escape.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:18 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yea, the reason why healthcare costs so much is because of these nice little "free enterprise" units running a fraud... and that is somehow the gummint's fault?



Caveat Emptor, perhaps?

Also interesting (but not unexpected) that you automatically conflate free enterprise with fraud.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Also interesting (but not unexpected) that you automatically conflate free enterprise with fraud.
No, unfortunately it manages to do that all by itself. Gaming the system has been a major profit center since the days of the robber barons.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:09 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Also interesting (but not unexpected) that you automatically conflate free enterprise with fraud.
No, unfortunately it manages to do that all by itself. Gaming the system has been a major profit center since the days of the robber barons.



So the guy who runs your local sandwich shop is a fraud? Everyone you deal with who's selling you stuff is a fraud?

Sort'a like saying that since some folks murder everyone is a murderer.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:00 PM

WISHIMAY


Whelp, today I went to my gyno and had my contraceptive device removed. (you'll just have to get over the TMI ) I'M FREE FROM PLASTIC SHIT SHOVED UP MY HOO-HAA!!!

Ten years I've been seeing this bastard. (today he was slightly drunk, btw, and last time I heard him say -through the paper thin walls- "Let me get rid of this damn patient next door and I can call you back" )

We've been lucky enough to have the same insurance for seven years of it. I sign in and the girl at front says "We may not be able to take your insurance because we've had something change LAST WEEK and two of the three things on your card we don't take anymore." Ten minutes later she comes out and says that ONE of them still counted, so it was OK.

THEY can't tell you how much you owe because they are so covered in paperwork they can't see their own nose.

PATIENTS need to start posting the prices of procedures and services somewhere. A couple states have forced hospitals to post non-insurance pay-up-front costs, and that needs to be in ALL states. Most hospitals don't want you to know that they charge (in my case) $26 for ONE dose of children's ibuprofen. They don't want you to know that surgery costs go up a grand every time they want to add a wing or change the flooring. They have it good. You have to MAKE them do these things, and I doubt our pussified media has the stones to make it happen...

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Everyone you deal with who's selling you stuff is a fraud?
it would be interesting to see if that's always true at least one step along the supply chain.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:35 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Whelp, today I went to my gyno and had my contraceptive device removed. (you'll just have to get over the TMI ) I'M FREE FROM PLASTIC SHIT SHOVED UP MY HOO-HAA!!!

Ten years I've been seeing this bastard. (today he was slightly drunk, btw, and last time I heard him say -through the paper thin walls- "Let me get rid of this damn patient next door and I can call you back" )

We've been lucky enough to have the same insurance for seven years of it. I sign in and the girl at front says "We may not be able to take your insurance because we've had something change LAST WEEK and two of the three things on your card we don't take anymore." Ten minutes later she comes out and says that ONE of them still counted, so it was OK.

THEY can't tell you how much you owe because they are so covered in paperwork they can't see their own nose.

PATIENTS need to start posting the prices of procedures and services somewhere. A couple states have forced hospitals to post non-insurance pay-up-front costs, and that needs to be in ALL states. Most hospitals don't want you to know that they charge (in my case) $26 for ONE dose of children's ibuprofen. They don't want you to know that surgery costs go up a grand every time they want to add a wing or change the flooring. They have it good. You have to MAKE them do these things, and I doubt our pussified media has the stones to make it happen...



I just shake my head at your system. I would gloat a little as well, only the fraudsters here who currently call themselves our leaders look to the US as the place to emulate, so in a couple of years I may do the same.

You walk into a public hospital and treatment is free, no forms to sign, no insurance documents. Whatever treatment you get, you get for free.

You walk into a doctors and the fee schedule is usually up where you can see it. Or its a free clinic. If you pay, you get a set amount back - what the government covers.

You are usually out of pocket for other specialist services and dentistry unless you are poor. Or you are privately insurered. Governments pay for some stuff and you pay for others. It doesn't seem terribly complicated.

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