REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ukrainians liberated Auschwitz, and Russia "invaded" Nazi Germany

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, January 25, 2015 20:20
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Friday, January 23, 2015 11:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Even as "Yats" thunders that no one has the right to rewrite history, Yats and Schetyna rewrite history.

Quote:

For years, the history of Auschwitz's liberation was simple. Soviet forces — consisting of Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians and others — liberated the camp on Jan. 27, a day that is now honored as International Holocaust Day.

But recently this history has been called into question by some foreign officials, sparking a new political controversy.

On Wednesday, Polish Foreign Minister Grzegorz Schetyna said in an interview with a Polish radio station that "the first Ukrainian front — the Ukrainians — opened the gates of the camp and liberated it."

Schetyna's remarks provoked a swift reaction from Russia's Foreign Ministry, which said in an official statement that individuals from throughout the former Soviet states "fought in the Red Army that liberated Auschwitz."

The gates of the Auschwitz main camp were opened by Soviet major Anatoly Shapiro, a Jewish officer born in the Poltava region of today's Ukraine. In September 2006, Shapiro, who led a Red Army battalion of about 500 men, was declared a Hero of Ukraine by then-president Viktor Yushchenko.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/how-poland-kept-putin-away-
from-the-auschwitz-memorial/514791.html


This ignores the fact there were tremendously pro-Nazi factions in Ukraine at the time under Bandera (and that they continue to this day) as there were in Hungary. And the Poles weren't much better. My dad was born in Poland and while he had many great qualities he, like many Catholic Poles, was tremendously prejudiced against Jews and once said that "Hitler cleaned out Poland well enough". There was a reason why some concentration camps were in Poland, and why the Germans were able to set up the Warsaw Ghetto open-air prison, and that was because it was done with the tolerance of many (if not most) Polish Catholics.

Meanwhile Yats claims that Russia "invaded" (Nazi) Germany, ignoring the fact that Nazi Germany had invaded much of Europe ... oh, and Russia too.



Merkel was utterly silent on this. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to whitewash the Nazi past ... and the continuing Nazi presence ... of many European nations. Also, to delete Russia from the fight against fascism.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 6:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Wait, I thought there WERE no concentration camps. They were refugee camps, or some such, no ?

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Friday, January 23, 2015 6:46 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


It seems a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant about the war on the Eastern front. I've said it before, but in terms of ferocity, cruelty and casualties, it makes the western front look like a school boy stoush. Estimates as high as 21 million Russians died.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 7:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It seems a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant about the war on the Eastern front. I've said it before, but in terms of ferocity, cruelty and casualties, it makes the western front look like a school boy stoush. Estimates as high as 21 million Russians died.



Much of the secrets were kept behind the Iron Curtain, and because many simply didn't want to remember such unspeakable horror.

I remember an exhibit that came to the USA , back in the late 90's. It was a store of Soviet WW2 era artifacts , and items taken from Berlin, even some of Hitler's own private keepsakes. Pretty amazing stuff.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 7:45 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It seems a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant about the war on the Eastern front. I've said it before, but in terms of ferocity, cruelty and casualties, it makes the western front look like a school boy stoush. Estimates as high as 21 million Russians died.



I didn't realize that where you come from they did ton's of documentaries on this. Don't be ignorant, Americans certainly know what happened. To who and to what extent.

Every time Europe gets its panties in a knot we have to go over there and clean it up.


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Friday, January 23, 2015 7:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


There was still plenty of data around. Nobody wanted to acknowledge what part the Soviets and the Eastern Bloc, for better or for worse, played in the war, because it was all about 'We Won The War' Yay!!

Mind you, the behaviour of the Soviets army was disgraceful.

Quote:

As Stalin gained strength and confidence in his battle against the German invader and in his ability to manipulate the Allies, he began to make it clear that he had no intention of giving up his claims to Poland.

The advancing Red Army crossed into former Polish territory in January, 1944 and quickly began to establish control in all areas as they became conquered.

Despite a coordination of efforts between the Red Army and Polish Home Army units in their common fight against the Germans, the Soviets quickly acted to eradicate Home Army members following their victories. Immediately following the cessation of fighting, the NKWD disarmed the Poles then either absorbed them into existing Red Army units or Polish units under Soviet command. Officers were arrested with many being shot and the balance imprisoned and/or deported to Siberia.

Any attempts by Polish underground administrators to organize or enter regular governing bodies were thwarted by the arrest of the individuals involved on the usual grounds of anti-communist activity. Already by this time the Soviets had established their own puppet government for Poland, the "Lublin" government, which began to operate in former Polish territories as they became liberated. Despite its superficially Polish character, this new administration was tightly run by the Soviets and could not prevent the Soviets from returning to their oppresive method of rule begun during the original occupation of 1939-41.

On July 29, 1944, the Soviets had advanced to and entered the eastern suburbs of Warsaw. The Polish underground was encouraged to fight the Germans by the Soviet controlled Polish Radio (the "Kosciuszko" station) in Moscow. The attack on Warsaw by the Soviets appeared imminent while the Germans decided to dig in. The Polish Government-in-Exile considered this the last opportunity to create and establish an independent, non-Soviet government in Poland.

The Warsaw uprising (August 1, 44 - October 2, 44), covered extensively elsewhere, did not succeed. The Soviet infantry stalled its advance and the air force sorties over Warsaw came to a halt. A few Home Army detachments fighting alongside the Red Army headed to Warsaw to aid the insurgents but were first disarmed by the Soviets before being allowed to proceed. The Soviets also refused to allow the Allies to use Soviet air bases to bring in supplies for the fighters (only 10% of the fighters actually possesed weapons). The Germans sensed the lull on the part of the Soviets and ultimately sent some 40,000 well equipped men to take the city, which they did. In time, following the German retreat, the Soviets finally entered the city in January 1945."




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Friday, January 23, 2015 7:50 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I feel we've had this discussion before on this board.

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 8:08 PM

MAL4PREZ


NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a totally unexpected turn of events that no one could have possibly seen coming, sig starts a thread about how poor loving Mother Russia is being unfairly blamed and misunderstood while the evil Ukrainians are claiming credit for a good act they NEVER could have done. The sig/she/he/it knows this to be true because... well, because a Russian source said so!!!

And note that poor Russia is being scapegoated by that huge, overwhelming majority of unfairly biased European/Western folk who believe that attacking Nazi Germany was a horrible crime. Yeah, because the West is all about being all protective of Nazi Germany.

*facepalm*

Translation: the "sig" is now smoking whatever the clone kiki was smoking the other day. And both of their brains are now little puddles on the floor. Very, very small puddles.


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Friday, January 23, 2015 8:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


With no real dog in the Ukraine vs Russia fight, I do have moments of curiosity and amusement ... just to see how others align with or against certain individuals.

It's kinda fun to sit on the sidelines of these skirmishes and just watch.


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Friday, January 23, 2015 8:57 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I feel we've had this discussion before on this board.

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.



I guess the idea that there were good guys and bad guys doesn't prove true in this arena. There was a lot of double, double crossing that went on, also by the Allies.

We probably have had this discussion before. The only new, new discussions are about some event in US politics which doesnt interest me in the slightest, and is playing out the same old same old anyway....

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Friday, January 23, 2015 9:20 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.


That's quite right, and that's why everything the Russians did to the Germans was justifiable ... just as justifiable as America killing 250,000 Japanese civilians with 2 A-bombs.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 9:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.


That's quite right, and that's why everything the Russians did to the Germans was justifiable ... just as justifiable as America killing 250,000 Japanese civilians with 2 A-bombs.



Easier to release a bomb over a city and fly away than to systematically rape and beat every woman you find in country,and then kill indiscriminately, as you work your way to Berlin, but I guess both are hell.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 9:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.


That's quite right, and that's why everything the Russians did to the Germans was justifiable ... just as justifiable as America killing 250,000 Japanese civilians with 2 A-bombs.



Hmmm, is this a serious response? I can't tell but perhaps the fact that you don't call me a whore in your post makes me think it might be....

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Friday, January 23, 2015 10:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


NEWSFLASH! In a move no one could have expected, MAL4 repudiates all of history and has a complete blithering meltdown on FFF.net, while trying to prove that she knows more than SIGNY about WWII. SIGNY's father was a Polish lieutenant who was captured by the Russians, escaped the Katyn Forest massacre by claiming to be a non-com photographer, shipped off to a Ukrainian tin mine, escaped, recaptured, shipped off to a Siberian labor camp, repatriated to the "allies" in UK via Iraq, joined the British commandos, was dropped into Poland as an anti-Russian provocateur, and who escaped (again) by "walking west with his hat pointing east" after the post-war deal was struck in Yalta.

YEP, MAL4 knows a crap-ton of NOTHING, and is determined to prove it! And boy, has she ever!

You're an ass, MAL4. I have no effing idea what bee is in your bonnet, but you might want to get rid of it: it's disturbing your thinking.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 10:41 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Sure Sniggy. And my crazy Uncle Marvin rode "Fat Man" all the way in.



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Friday, January 23, 2015 10:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



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Friday, January 23, 2015 10:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Sure Sniggy. And my crazy Uncle Marvin rode "Fat Man" all the way in.





Wow... this proves just how far back Hollywood's warped view of America goes. I didn't think of it before, but yeah... it makes perfect sense now.

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Friday, January 23, 2015 10:55 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Easier to release a bomb over a city and fly away than to systematically rape and beat every woman you find in country,and then kill indiscriminately, as you work your way to Berlin, but I guess both are hell.


Whoa, good guess!

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Friday, January 23, 2015 11:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Except, Jongsstraw, that I have pictures of some of it. He told us of a few tricks about how to ruin a carload of grain with easily available materials, and how to kill someone with readily available materials, and some things about explosives, none of which I'll repeat here. He spoke Russian as well as Polish. He used to get a check from Her Majesty's Army: I know, because I went to the bank with him and they had to convert pounds, shillings and pence to dollars.

Just because you're a fucking lazy stupid ass doesn't mean everyone is.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 1:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... thread about how poor loving Mother Russia is being unfairly blamed and misunderstood while the evil Ukrainians are claiming credit for a good act they NEVER could have done. The sig/she/he/it knows this to be true because... well, because a Russian source said so!!!"

Are you saying Mal4 that Ukrainians liberated Auschwitz, and Russia "invaded" Nazi Germany? Because that would just be crazy.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 1:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4 went off the deep end some time ago. Maybe it was because I criticized Obama. Or maybe it was because I disagreed with NIKI. Frankly, I really don't know what set her off, but she's never been right since.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:03 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


She was also complaining about the kids in the yard back from her place being excessively noisy in the pool; and if I remember correctly, she said she wasn't sleeping well. Sadly, it seemed like she was unraveling. I don't think it was anything that happened here, tho certain items have since become a focus.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 8:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, why did Sig's dad hate Jews ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 9:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, why did Sig's dad hate Jews ?




Polish birthright? She made the case that Pols were anti-jew so I utilized Siggy's Black & White Negative Assumptive "thinking" to connect the 2.



So, because dad hated Jews in Poland, 60 years ago, she has to hate Jews now - EVERYWHERE ?

Who the hell made those rules? I think they suck.

I thought it funny and odd to hear my grandmother comments on blacks,when she saw one on t.v. It was so different than how I'd been raised.

Her life experiences were far different than mine.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 9:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Not loving, and even despising Israel is rooted in something. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but as for Israel, I am more indifferent personally, save for the fact that I see what they've put up with, how they've shown restraint, and all the good that's come from the existence of the nation, per science and technology, etc...

As for old grandparent types acting silly when blacks appeared on t.v., I guess I saw it more as comical, than really thinking about it all that much. I was younger, and having not grown up around those attitudes, I was taken aback by it. I was like 'Whoah! Where'd THAT come from ? '

I guess I never did get the memo explaining why I should hate this or that group.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So, why did Sig's dad hate Jews ? _RAPPY
Because most Poles did. You can read about it in Isaac Bashevis Singer's books, but it's a historical fact that most Poles hated Jews, and this persisted through- literally- centuries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Bashevis_Singer

But it wasn't just Poles who hated Jews. What most people don't realize is that most Europeans (and Russians) over the centuries hated Jews. The Nazi demonization of Jews didn't just spring up overnight: Goebbels made use of an already-common prejudice that existed pretty much across Europe, but was particularly virulent in central and eastern Europe. There was also a significant prejudice against the Roma (gypsies).

Again, what most people don't realize is that Nazism was actually welcome by many in Hungary, Poland, then-Czechoslovakia, etc. There were rabid pro-Nazi factions who made even the SS blush with their vicious pogroms. And even where people didn't actively support Nazism, they allowed it to thrive. The people of Warsaw knew about the ghetto. While they were eating and drinking happily on one side of the wall, on the other side, people were starving. If you haven't already, you should see Schindler's List. Or perhaps Sophie's Choice. Horrible, cruel things were done with the acquiescence of the Poles.

It's not that there are no heroes during that time, but you won't find them categorized by nationality. Even as the governments of many nations (including Hungary, Austria, Romania, and Bulgaria, which were formal parts of the axis; and Poland, Finland, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Croatia, France, Belgium, Romania, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Norway, the Netherlands, Belarus, Ukraine, Luxembourg, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia had German axis-friendly puppet states) either fully engaged in Nazism or allowed it in their borders, resistance fighters were everywhere. Stalin was sideways to the conflict. He had his own nation to rule, and if Germany had not double-crossed Russia, I doubt that he would have gotten involved.

The only lesson I got out of WWII (and Russia, and China, and the USA, and indeed all of history) is that using some great but abstract goal, like progress, equality, and purity ... or freedom, "way of life", or manifest destiny ... or god, or justice ... as a reason to kill people, doesn't make the killing any better. Which is why I come back to what I've said before:

There is only one moral reason to kill anyone, and that is in immediate defense of your life or the life of someone else. Anything else is vaporous- it will disappear the moment that you try to lean on it. Which comes to ...



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ETA: BRENDA- I see we cross-posted. True, that. I've talked about that elsewhere and here also. There is more to the story; the drive for expansion actually goes back to Washington, who saw a great financial oppty in the Ohio Valley. Again reappears in as "manifest destiny" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/American_pro
gress.JPG/300px-American_progress.JPG
(the modernization of the land represented by this painting), and more pointedly as the competitive drive to create slave-owning states for the Southern cause, and (again) as the relief valve for southern displaced/traumatized after the Civil War. Finally, the Gold Rush.

Quote:

Not loving, and even despising Israel is rooted in something.
It is rooted in the fact that despite its manifest military superiority, Israel uses its might to maintain the largest open-air prison since the Warsaw Ghetto. The circumstances of Palestinians in Israel is pretty much like the circumstances of Jews in Warsaw. It is a complete historical irony that Israeli Jews have become like what they once feared.

This is a bit like the expansion of the USA across the west: there WERE people living there before the land was given to "the immigrant settlers" and displaced Civil War survivors. Europeans and Americans "gave" Palestine to the Jews out of a sense of guilt, but also the recognition that they didn't want to give up their land for a Jewish state, so they did the next best thing: they gave away somebody else's land.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:19 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
She was also complaining about the kids in the yard back from her place being excessively noisy in the pool; and if I remember correctly, she said she wasn't sleeping well. Sadly, it seemed like she was unraveling. I don't think it was anything that happened here, tho certain items have since become a focus.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.


Lol! Yeah, the only way someone could dismiss the pair of you as biased manipulative trolls is if they've unraveled. And complaining about screaming children is a sure sign of madness. (Where you got the sleep thing I have no idea.)

My mental health is fine bub. The only mental fissure I'm near is the one that sig and her socksister fall in whenever the topic of Russia comes up.

It is well documented in these threads that, as regards this topic, you two are bonkers. Facts have no affect on you. So I will continue to mock, and you should continue to do all you can to dismiss me.

It's funny.



*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So I will continue to mock
So basically you're a self-professed troll. I kinda noticed that you had nothing substantive to say, but were dogging me from thread to thread with insults. I hope you don't mind if I ignore you from now on, but you've gone over the edge, MAL4.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 1:38 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

sig and her socksister ...


Now that's HI - LAR - I - OUS!

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:10 PM

JONGSSTRAW





Sniggy The Piggy: "Hey Kiki, Mal4 just called you my 'socksister'."

Kiki The Psycho Sow: "Jeez, I guess our clever ruse is over".

Sniggy The Piggy: "No, never! Not as long as there's fresh sty slop in my nostrils!

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:31 PM

THGRRI





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Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

Not loving, and even despising Israel is rooted in something.


It is rooted in the fact that despite its manifest military superiority, Israel uses its might to maintain the largest open-air prison since the Warsaw Ghetto. The circumstances of Palestinians in Israel is pretty much like the circumstances of Jews in Warsaw. It is a complete historical irony that Israeli Jews have become like what they once feared.

This is a bit like the expansion of the USA across the west: there WERE people living there before the land was given to "the immigrant settlers" and displaced Civil War survivors. Europeans and Americans "gave" Palestine to the Jews out of a sense of guilt, but also the recognition that they didn't want to give up their land for a Jewish state, so they did the next best thing: they gave away somebody else's land.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



See, it's this sort of nonsensical distoriton of facts and spreading of false propaganda which leads to the inevitable name calling and flaming in threads.

Israel doesn't use its military might to house ANY sort of open air ghetto. It defends itself from violent angry neighbors, who have vowed to destroy it, and who have repeatedly attacked her from all sides.


The plight of the Palestinians is a fairy tale. No one in the ME gives to flips about them, what so ever. They use this tale of woe as an excuse to supply arms and rockets simply to kill as many Jews as possible.



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Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:






I believe that map is in the process of being updated.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 3:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Mal4

"Facts have no affect on you."

I welcome facts - things that have good evidence associated with them. But all you seem to post are unsupported claims, backed up, if at all, by yet more unsupported claims.

For example, the claims that Russians are "trolling" the internet. One example given was that some people in the Maidan were called Nazis. Now, if people who were being called Nazis WERE in fact Nazis - and they were, as I pointed out - is that trolling, or merely a statement of fact? Similarly, there were unsupported claims that posts to The Guardian were "insulting, cajoling, combatative (sic), and ad hominem attacks...", made without either links or even minimal quotes, or any evidence at all. Claims that I could find no evidence for, evidence that someone (you reading this GeeWhiz?) should have checked for before posting.

Now, do I see evidence of coordinated response? It seems like yes. But calmly posting on-topic facts - no matter how unpopular those facts are with you - isn't trolling.

So, your side? Not so evidence-based. But should you ever decide to even minimally check out the claims you so freely accept, and post good evidence with them, I'll be happy to discuss them.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:51 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 6:24 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I doubt any one really cares what you post on this subject any more Kiki. You have put your foot in your mouth, and then shot yourself in that foot so many times that it would be silly to listen.
Evidence has been posted, over and over - your posts are little more than static.



Bingo, nailed it.

Magons - RWED has been toxic sludge for years. Glad you caught on. ;)

In fact, I made a similar post myself probably around, oh... 2007. Might have even included the word "toxic". I long ago quit taking RWED in any way seriously. It's just fun to see how these twisted brains keep twisting themselves. Helps me to remember that there really are people like this out there. Which explains a lot about how fucked up the world is, I guess.

BTW, I didn't list sig as one of the seriously twisted until she went off the deep end about Russia. Wow. Image totally blown lol!


*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Saturday, January 24, 2015 6:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Whatever Mr GeeWhiz. I very specifically, and, more importantly, very TOPICALLY pointed out the holes from YOUR post - and you can't seem to stay ON YOUR TOPIC and plug them. Instead you bail to ad hominems. So, whatever.






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:49 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:


Magons - RWED has been toxic sludge for years. Glad you caught on. ;)

In fact, I made a similar post myself probably around, oh... 2007. Might have even included the word "toxic". I long ago quit taking RWED in any way seriously. It's just fun to see how these twisted brains keep twisting themselves. Helps me to remember that there really are people like this out there. Which explains a lot about how fucked up the world is, I guess.

BTW, I didn't list sig as one of the seriously twisted until she went off the deep end about Russia. Wow. Image totally blown lol!





Hmmm, no I disagree. While there has been the resident trolls on the board, most posters could discuss most things with a semblance of civility. Sadly, it seems that those same posters now just spit vitriol, even at people they have had civil conversations with in the past and often shared similiar values. Sadly, I see that you now fit that category.


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Sunday, January 25, 2015 12:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Alas, there are several people no longer capable of reasoned discussion: G, MAL4, and THUGR (altho THUGR never was capable of reasoned discussion). JONGSSTRAW only occasionally makes sense now. TONY left because his perspective became off-balanced when talking about guns, but at least he had the sense to realize that the discussion was too much to handle. NIKI left because her liberalism came under criticism. Horowitz can't afford it. Capshaws are brain-blown. Gruvik's dead.... The list of functioning FFFs is pretty thin!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, January 25, 2015 10:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:


I agree with all of this, especially the last bit. Sig has revealed a glimpse (if it's true) about why she is so invested and feels such ownership of all things Eastern Europe/Russia from her personal history. It explains a lot, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.



What is it that I do that needs "excuse"? Do I name-call? Do I accuse you of being an NSA-bot? Do I accuse by innuendo- Yanno, like I think you just did about me? Do I post insulting pictures when words fail me?

Yanno, I think the only you don't like about my "behavior" is that you simply don't like my POV. But instead of arguing the point from evidence and logic, you get all emotional about it, and do ... well, just what you did.

Quote:

In 18 pages of posts about Russia and Ukraine, to only marginally assign any responsibility to Russia is pretty unfathomable imho. Imagine an 18 page thread 'America Invades Iraq' in which someone continually cited Russia's past bad behavior as a way to divert and deflect attention from the US - wouldn't that seem just a bit shifty? Wouldn't that be the very definition of someone who couldn't have a reasoned discussion?
NO IT WOULDN'T. I would look at that and see whether or not there was such a threat, such a strategic imbalance of power that a nation really was forced into some sort of action. I would be prepared to discuss it in detail.

And BTW - people do that here ALL OF THE TIME. Especially THUGR, who sees Russia at our doorstep as the entire and only excuse for America's foreign policy. It just doesn't jump out at you when "your side" does it because ... well, because you don't even see it. In future, just look how often THUGR says some version of "the Russians made it do it". Or how often RAPPY says "The jihadists made us do it". That is the sum total of their argument.

Quote:

"If you disagree with me you must be incapable of reason."
G, the reason why I say that you're incapable of reason isn't because you disagree with me, it's because you haven't yet demonstrated reasoning skills. (And neither has MAL4 lately, and THUGR never) One of the things that you do CONSTANTLY is confuse allegation with evidence. Just because somebody said that somebody did something doesn't mean that it happened that way, but you frequently bring that level of discussion to the board. Then you get all pissed off when I insist in evidence, and call it some sort of "deflection".

Really???

You're not looking for discussion, you're just looking for agreement. Well, you're going to have to argue your own arguments, I'm not going to do it for you, so tone down the emotion and bring your points to the table and we can go over them one by one. But stay on topic, stop name-calling, and bring something here besides allegations. If you can manage to do that, we'll get along just fine.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, January 25, 2015 2:47 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.



Why don't you try redirecting the RWD's into conversations that spark real debate based on honest posts. You can do this by rewarding these type threads with your participation while ignoring threads started for the purpose of spreading lies and propaganda. How about you try that before giving up and leaving this discussion thread to the trolls.

What say ye?

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Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:09 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:






I believe that map is in the process of being updated.



Putin sure is trying.


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Sunday, January 25, 2015 5:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.



Why don't you try redirecting the RWD's into conversations that spark real debate based on honest posts. You can do this by rewarding these type threads with your participation while ignoring threads started for the purpose of spreading lies and propaganda. How about you try that before giving up and leaving this discussion thread to the trolls.

What say ye?



I've tried in many threads. It doenst get very far before devolving into a flame war.

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Sunday, January 25, 2015 5:29 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.



Why don't you try redirecting the RWD's into conversations that spark real debate based on honest posts. You can do this by rewarding these type threads with your participation while ignoring threads started for the purpose of spreading lies and propaganda. How about you try that before giving up and leaving this discussion thread to the trolls.

What say ye?



I've tried in many threads. It doenst get very far before devolving into a flame war.



I get that. Maybe we could ignore the obvious finger pointing agenda selling posts and continue on. Posters who do not get responded to may change their approach. If you always give in to the child throwing a fit, then they will always throw a fit. Get where I am going with this?


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Sunday, January 25, 2015 8:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I get that. Maybe we could ignore the obvious finger pointing agenda selling posts and continue on. Posters who do not get responded to may change their approach. If you always give in to the child throwing a fit, then they will always throw a fit. Get where I am going with this?
Yes, it means we should ignore
you, who can't seem to post anything other than "russian trolls"
Jongsstraw, who can't seem to post anything other than pictures of pigs
G, who can't seem to post anything other than finger-pointing (allegations), and
MAL4, who can't seem to post anything other than insults.

Get where I'm going with this?

But, yes, I think it is an EXCELLENT idea. I'll start forthwith.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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