Meredith Shiner, American retard. by JEWELSTAITEFAN

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

graditate

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:22 PM

America loves a winner!

I knew a girl who graduated from Duke. Cute girl. Smart. Also enjoyed doing a bit of cocaine. Snuff queen, of sorts.

Christian Laettner went to Duke.

I hate Duke.

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Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

god does not equal creator

creator does not equal creation

But then, you look to Rush as the pinnacle of intellect. I'm sure the distinctions of basic English are beyond you.

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Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:41 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

god does not equal creator

creator does not equal creation

But then, you look to Rush as the pinnacle of intellect. I'm sure the distinctions of basic English are beyond you.

Creator is capitalized, with all the full intent of meaning God/ Nature / what ever. The point is that our rights are innate, ours by the mere existence of our being, and NOT something handed down to us by " man ". Contrary to the rulers , popes and monarchs of the old world, America was the NEW world.

Rush merely passed on the story. It has nothing to do w/ him, yet you try to use him as a red herring to avoid dealing w/ the issue at hand.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:04 AM

So everyone has these rights? Everyone on the planet? If they're "god-given", and not man-given via a system of laws and a government, you're suggesting that everyone everywhere has these inalienable rights.

Even the ones about not being imprisoned without due process, or not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment?

Or are those rights that only American citizens have? In which case they would truly be "man-given" rights, since they were enumerated in our constitution, written and ratified by men, not by gods. And there is no mention of any god in our constitution, either.

I would expect a so-called atheist to know these things, but you've never been the smart one in any room, have you?

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:54 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is what the brilliant thinker Rush said: "... human rights are bestowed by God via creation, that the natural state of the human being contains God-given rights." God with a capital G. Not god/ nature/ whatever --- God. (BTW, look at the word 'god' long enough and it becomes foreign and just plain weird.)

And then there's the whole 'God via creation' phrase - I presume he means the creation myth in the bible. So he's a creationist too.

And you believe him.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:02 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

This is what the brilliant thinker Rush said: "... human rights are bestowed by God via creation, that the natural state of the human being contains God-given rights." God with a capital G. Not god/ nature/ whatever --- God. (BTW, look at the word 'god' long enough and it becomes foreign and just plain weird.)

Again, Rush isn't the issue here. I was commenting on the words the Founders wrote, and why. "C"reator, with a capital C, is a clear indication of what I pointed out.

BTW ... no ,it doesn't. It's just a word. As we see it, in English. Not sure what your personal malfunction is, but I'll have no part of it. Thanks.

Quote:

And then there's the whole 'God via creation' phrase - I presume he means the creation myth in the bible. So he's a creationist too.

And you believe him.

I agree w/ him on some matters, not so much on others. Of course Rush is a "creationist", as he believes in God. Or he's said so. Your point being... ?

Rush also believes the world to be billions of years old. But again, that's irrelevant. Rush isn't a part of this story.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
So everyone has these rights? Everyone on the planet? If they're "god-given", and not man-given via a system of laws and a government, you're suggesting that everyone everywhere has these inalienable rights.

Even the ones about not being imprisoned without due process, or not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment?

Or are those rights that only American citizens have? In which case they would truly be "man-given" rights, since they were enumerated in our constitution, written and ratified by men, not by gods. And there is no mention of any god in our constitution, either.

I would expect a so-called atheist to know these things, but you've never been the smart one in any room, have you?

Only Americans have rights, dont you know.... God gave them to you when he handed Moses the Constitution carved in stone.

Wait a minute....

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:46 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Meredith Shiner on MSNBC Aug 11 2013

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 4:15 PM

America loves a winner!

It was and remains a bad law, and the GOP ( well, those like Cruz ) are applauded for their tenacity and clear vision in repealing this burden on the American public. Since this video, the GOP have taken the Senate and gained seats in the House, so that should be a clear indication that more and more Americans see things their way.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:46 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It was and remains a bad law, and the GOP ( well, those like Cruz ) are applauded for their tenacity and clear vision in repealing this burden on the American public. Since this video, the GOP have taken the Senate and gained seats in the House, so that should be a clear indication that more and more Americans see things their way.

I see what you mean, but what do you think of Meredith Shiner in that video about Cruz's Crusade against Obamacare?

Even though a majority dislike Obamacare, I have seen what happens to people going without health insurance. Obamacare came years too late for them and they died because emergency rooms can't fix in the last month of their lives what should have been fixed years ago. And then I have paid to bury them. I really don't want to go back to those good old days before Obamacare. I want to be spared the expense. I am selfish about that.

But I can understand why rich people like me would be better off if the poor would just hurry up and die and be cremated -- a burial plus a headstone costs ten times more than cremation. And Obamacare costs more to run than simply dying quickly at the Harris County Hospital District. It is always about the money and the taxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_Health_System

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:58 PM

America loves a winner!

I don't care what she said about Cruz in a video from years ago. She's calling him crazy NOW, for believing , exactly as the FOUNDERS did, that our rights come from God, aka the " Creator ", and not man.

They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty.

She's in direct contrast w/ the very Founders of this country, as she mocks Cruz for his views.

That makes her a special kind of stupid.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
So everyone has these rights? Everyone on the planet? If they're "god-given", and not man-given via a system of laws and a government, you're suggesting that everyone everywhere has these inalienable rights.

Even the ones about not being imprisoned without due process, or not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment?

Or are those rights that only American citizens have? In which case they would truly be "man-given" rights, since they were enumerated in our constitution, written and ratified by men, not by gods. And there is no mention of any god in our constitution, either.

I would expect a so-called atheist to know these things, but you've never been the smart one in any room, have you?
Only Americans have rights, dont you know.... God gave them to you when he handed Moses the Constitution carved in stone.

Wait a minute....

You should be thankful that only America will suffer the consequences of Global Warming, which is why only Americans are forced to purchase ethanol fuels.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't care what she said about Cruz in a video from years ago. She's calling him crazy NOW, for believing , exactly as the FOUNDERS did, that our rights come from God, aka the " Creator ", and not man.

They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty.

She's in direct contrast w/ the very Founders of this country, as she mocks Cruz for his views.

That makes her a special kind of stupid.

Maybe the founders were confused when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency - maybe they should have spelled out the definitions of each word, and known that libtards would not be able to comprehend definitions.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:54 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Maybe the founders were confused when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency - maybe they should have spelled out the definitions of each word, and known that libtards would not be able to comprehend definitions.

(BTW, look at the word 'In' long enough and it becomes foreign and just plain weird.)

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It was and remains a bad law, and the GOP ( well, those like Cruz ) are applauded for their tenacity and clear vision in repealing this burden on the American public. Since this video, the GOP have taken the Senate and gained seats in the House, so that should be a clear indication that more and more Americans see things their way.

That's moronic. They got far fewer votes than the Democrats. If anything, it's a clear indication that their gerrymandering is having the desired effect and screwing the voters. Nobody but a complete fucking idiot would believe otherwise - which of course is why you believe that.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

"C"reator, with a capital C, is a clear indication of what I pointed out.

BTW ... no ,it doesn't. It's just a word. As we see it, in English. Not sure what your personal malfunction is, but I'll have no part of it.

So it's "a clear indication" of what they meant...

But "it's just a word" and has nothing to do with anything.

Oh, and you also idiotically claim that they could just as easily have used "god" instead of "creator".

So why didn't they?

I was not created by any god; I was created by two human beings who had sex. They are my Creator.

If you actually ever bothered to look at the document, you'd see lots and lots of capitalization that seems odd or out of place. Words like "Order", "Justice", and "Welfare" are capitalized. Does that mean the framers put welfare on a special pedestal?

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't care what she said about Cruz in a video from years ago. She's calling him crazy NOW, for believing , exactly as the FOUNDERS did, that our rights come from God, aka the " Creator ", and not man.

They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty.

She's in direct contrast w/ the very Founders of this country, as she mocks Cruz for his views.

That makes her a special kind of stupid.

Maybe the founders were confused when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency - maybe they should have spelled out the definitions of each word, and known that libtards would not be able to comprehend definitions.

Can you possibly be this fucking stupid?

Yes. Yes, you can. And you are, as you've once again proven.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't care what she said about Cruz in a video from years ago. She's calling him crazy NOW, for believing , exactly as the FOUNDERS did, that our rights come from God, aka the " Creator ", and not man.

They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty.

She's in direct contrast w/ the very Founders of this country, as she mocks Cruz for his views.

That makes her a special kind of stupid.

She's in "direct contrast" with the very people who saw fit to leave the word "god" completely out of the document that establishes this nation's government?

Seems to me she's right in line with them, which makes you and Rafi Cruz the special kind of stupid.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:17 PM

America loves a winner!

EC - you're wrong. And you're on the internet. So everyone knows it. And will, for ever.

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
EC - you're wrong. And you're on the internet. So everyone knows it. And will, for ever.

And you're known to suck off kids, and everyone will know it forever. Or, as you say, "for ever."

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Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
So everyone has these rights? Everyone on the planet? If they're "god-given", and not man-given via a system of laws and a government, you're suggesting that everyone everywhere has these inalienable rights.

Even the ones about not being imprisoned without due process, or not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment?

Or are those rights that only American citizens have? In which case they would truly be "man-given" rights, since they were enumerated in our constitution, written and ratified by men, not by gods. And there is no mention of any god in our constitution, either.

I would expect a so-called atheist to know these things, but you've never been the smart one in any room, have you?

Still no answers for these questions?

Raise your hand if you thought he'd really give an honest answer. Or any answer. He's incapable of honesty.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 12:10 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Only Americans have rights, dont you know.... God gave them to you when he handed Moses the Constitution carved in stone.

Wait a minute....

Brilliant!

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Friday, March 27, 2015 12:42 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"C"reator, with a capital C ...
They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty. These should be added to the list of RapFacts®.

The quotes below were selected at random from many pages of quotes. A number of 'Founding Fathers' seem openly hostile to the melding of religion and government, and some seem disdainful of 'Christianity' in general.:

George Washington
“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”

Thomas Jefferson
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

James Madison
“Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”

John Adams
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Paine
"The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.''

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Friday, March 27, 2015 5:05 AM

So only Americans get rights given to them by god. What about the rest of us, are we just chopped liver?

I want inalienable rights, do I have to pray for them or what?

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Friday, March 27, 2015 6:09 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't care what she said about Cruz in a video from years ago. She's calling him crazy NOW, for believing , exactly as the FOUNDERS did, that our rights come from God, aka the " Creator ", and not man.

If the Founders had not laid claim to God, their Constitution would not have been ratified. It was simply politics in 18th century America. Ted Cruz and politicians like him haven't changed their methods. They still use empty rhetoric and say unprovable things to get what they want.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Maybe the founders were confused when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency - maybe they should have spelled out the definitions of each word, and known that libtards would not be able to comprehend definitions.

In polite company it was once a habit to attribute all morality to God. If you were the elite in 18th century America, it was mandatory or else you lose your place. It stopped being mandatory in the 20th century for most of the world. I do understand that a majority of Americans are still living in the 18th century. And they still believe that God is the source of all morality, but that doesn't make it a fact, even if the authors of the American Constitution had to allude to God in order to get their Constitution ratified by the legislatures of the 13 states. Those authors were politicians working within the restrictions of their time.

Consult the book Culture and the Death of God. www.3ammagazine.com/3am/surrogate-transcendence/

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Friday, March 27, 2015 7:06 AM

For those who don't know (like Jewel, who can't resist yet another opportunity to show his ignorance):

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx

The founders had nothing to do with this idiocy.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So only Americans get rights given to them by god. What about the rest of us, are we just chopped liver?

I want inalienable rights, do I have to pray for them or what?

No, you just have to be American, apparently.

Our "god-given" rights only seem to exist because men wrote them into our constitution.

Which makes them "man-given" and not "god-given" at all.

Which makes christian dominionist dipshits like Auraptor uncomfortable.

As well, we can change our constitution at any time, simply by having enough people vote on the issue. No gods are required or allowed to vote on it. So if enough "men" agree on an issue, it then magically becomes "god-given" and enshrined in our foundational document.

But all that gets credited to a "creator" with a capital C, somehow.

I think if you're after those "god-given" inalienable rights, you'd do better to pray to men to give them to you. :)

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Friday, March 27, 2015 7:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So only Americans get rights given to them by god. What about the rest of us, are we just chopped liver?

I want inalienable rights, do I have to pray for them or what?

No, you just have to be American, apparently.

Our "god-given" rights only seem to exist because men wrote them into our constitution.

Which makes them "man-given" and not "god-given" at all.

Which makes christian dominionist dipshits like Auraptor uncomfortable.

As well, we can change our constitution at any time, simply by having enough people vote on the issue. No gods are required or allowed to vote on it. So if enough "men" agree on an issue, it then magically becomes "god-given" and enshrined in our foundational document.

But all that gets credited to a "creator" with a capital C, somehow.

I think if you're after those "god-given" inalienable rights, you'd do better to pray to men to give them to you. :)

In all seriousness, I always took it to mean 'these rights are not something can be given away or dipsuted - they are natural rights and should exist for all'

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Friday, March 27, 2015 8:51 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
EC - you're wrong. And you're on the internet. So everyone knows it. And will, for ever.

And you're known to suck off kids, and everyone will know it forever. Or, as you say, "for ever."

known ? You doth project too much. ROFLMAO!

Quote:
In all seriousness, I always took it to mean 'these rights are not something can be given away or dispsuted - they are natural rights and should exist for all'

Yes, all of us , everywhere, not just Americans, not just Christians.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 5:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So only Americans get rights given to them by god. What about the rest of us, are we just chopped liver?

I want inalienable rights, do I have to pray for them or what?

What does your Constitution say? Or your equivalent to Constitution.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 9:54 PM

It says "god gave only americans rights, sorry about that'

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Friday, March 27, 2015 9:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, all of us , everywhere, not just Americans, not just Christians.

Except it doesn't say 'even if you are not an american' which was really the reason why guantantamo was able to be set up.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 11:08 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, all of us , everywhere, not just Americans, not just Christians.

Except it doesn't say 'even if you are not an american' which was really the reason why guantantamo was able to be set up.

You're not really this stupid, are ya ?

C'mon.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, March 27, 2015 11:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
They could have easily said ' God ', and not ' Creator ', but to him, and many of the Founders via their own writings, it was clearly the Almighty.

If they could have just as easily said "God", why didn't they?

Quote:
Maybe the founders were confused when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency

Google where and when the phrase came into being - the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with it.

Quote:
You're not really this stupid, are ya ?

MAGONS isn't that stupid, RAPPY, but YOU ARE. It's very clear from our laws and behavior that WE don't feel obligated to extend "God-given rights" to all of humanity, and so ... we don't.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, March 27, 2015 11:47 PM

America loves a winner!

And here's your sign too, Siggy.

It's not OURS to extend.

Again, you obviously failed US History, 101.

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And here's your sign too, Siggy.

It's not OURS to extend.

Again, you obviously failed US History, 101.

You say everyone has these rights.

But then you call someone "stupid" for suggesting that prisoners at Guantanamo - which is technically United States soil - have these rights.

If not everyone has them, they aren't "rights," they're privileges.

You've never taken a government, civics, or constitutional law class at any grade level, have you?

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 12:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

RAPPY, I don't mean "impose" on others, what I meant was "treat others - even foreigners - with the same respect we would give American citizens".

But in our political and military affairs, it very clear that we make large distinctions between American citizens and others. Foreigners can be searched without probable cause, detained without charges, etc etc. That's why we have the CIA versus the FBI - they're supposed to be operating under different rules, in different arenas. They have different restrictions and accord non-citizens none of our "rights". How have you lived thru so much and not noticed some basic facts?

If not everyone has these "rights", not only are they NOT "inalienable" and "self evident", they're not even rights at all.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 4:15 AM

God said unto the Israelites, go forth and know ye are my chosen people, above all others do I love thee. Shalom.

God said unto the followers of Mohammed, go forth and know ye are my chosen people, above all others do I love thee. Saalam.

God said to the Americans, go forth and know ye are my chosen people, and above all others do I love thee. Peace.

And then God cracked up laughing and said 'my work here is done, I'm off to Alpha Centauri'

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:36 AM

America loves a winner!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And here's your sign too, Siggy.

It's not OURS to extend.

Again, you obviously failed US History, 101.

You say everyone has these rights.

But then you call someone "stupid" for suggesting that prisoners at Guantanamo - which is technically United States soil - have these rights.

Has zero to do w/ US soil or not. ALL MEN , genius. ALL of us are born w/ these rights. But when someone infringes upon the rights of others, it's up to govt to step in and keep them from doing more harm. And we have.

Quote:

If not everyone has them, they aren't "rights," they're privileges.

You've never taken a government, civics, or constitutional law class at any grade level, have you?

I'll not bandy crooked words with a witless troll.

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:40 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
RAPPY, I don't mean "impose" on others, what I meant was "treat others - even foreigners - with the same respect we would give American citizens".

But in our political and military affairs, it very clear that we make large distinctions between American citizens and others. Foreigners can be searched without probable cause, detained without charges, etc etc. That's why we have the CIA versus the FBI - they're supposed to be operating under different rules, in different arenas. They have different restrictions and accord non-citizens none of our "rights". How have you lived thru so much and not noticed some basic facts?

If not everyone has these "rights", not only are they NOT "inalienable" and "self evident", they're not even rights at all.

The US Declaration is not technically part of our laws, so treating non citizens differently from citizens isn't all that big an issue. ESPECIALLY when non citizens ( terrorists ) are caught on the battlefield. Damn straight we treat them differently than any Joe and Jane American, walking down anystreet USA

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, so now you're backing off of the idea that the "rights" which the Founding Fathers thought of as Creator-given, self-evident, and inalienable* are, in fact, NOT self-evident, NOT endowed by a Creator, and NOT inalienable.... because they're found in one text (Declaration of Independence) and not the other (Constitution of the United States)?

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

So these supposedly Creator-endowed, inalienable* rights are in fact easily repudiated for the sake of political convenience: that it was far easier to place them in a Declaration of Independence than the Constitution because the writers had to think about how to govern, not just how to rebel?

In other words, that these "rights" aren't inalienable, self-evident, or Creator-endowed at all, but completely created by the politics of the day?

Quote:
*inalienable:
not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated:
inviolable, absolute, unassailable, inherent

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:26 AM

America loves a winner!

No, the Founders had it right.

It's you who is confused.

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 6:42 PM

hmmmm, so do you think americans are the chosen people or what? It sounds like that's what your firebrand texan god conjuring flag waving hand on heart cruz is saying.

all this talk of god blessing americans and american exceptionialism is so offensive if you are not american. Isn't that what you hate about the fanatical muslims, that they are deluded into thinking they are on a mission from allah to bring islam to the world. how is it different to believe you are a blessed national of exceptional individuals who bring your version of the truth to the world?

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Saturday, March 28, 2015 6:51 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"No, the Founders had it right."

When they DIDN'T make it the law of the land?

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Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
hmmmm, so do you think americans are the chosen people or what? It sounds like that's what your firebrand texan god conjuring flag waving hand on heart cruz is saying.

all this talk of god blessing americans and american exceptionialism is so offensive if you are not american. Isn't that what you hate about the fanatical muslims, that they are deluded into thinking they are on a mission from allah to bring islam to the world. how is it different to believe you are a blessed national of exceptional individuals who bring your version of the truth to the world?

Don't want freedom ? Fine. Stay a slave to the crown. Fine by me.

Fact is, what the Founders did was truly unique in human history. Breaking away from the then most powerful nation on the planet to form a new form of govt. One which openly recognizes that men are free, and not destined to ruled by monarchs or an perpetual oligarchy. If you think Ted Cruz is some sort of nutjob because he actually believes in what the Founders stood for, then this country may very well be doomed.

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Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Don't want freedom ? Fine. Stay a slave to the crown. Fine by me.

Without the War for Independence, Americans would have ended as . . . Canada! Just imagine how those poor Canadians suffered terribly for centuries under the cruel rule of the Crown.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
One which openly recognizes that men are free, and not destined to ruled by monarchs or an perpetual oligarchy.

Sorry to inform you, although it is not strictly an oligarchy, America does have an ruling hierarchy based on wealth. You are obvious not in that hierarchy. Must be for a lack of money that you have a lack of power. Maybe you should leave retirement and get a job where you can bully employees.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If you think Ted Cruz is some sort of nutjob because he actually believes in what the Founders stood for, then this country may very well be doomed.

What they stood for in the end was killing those who get in their way. After the Civil War, General Sherman impugned “those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated [but] cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation.” www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/books/review/shermans-ghosts-by-matthew-car
r.html

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Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:54 AM

America loves a winner!

second - Obama came out of relative obscurity to win the Presidency. How'd that happen again ?

" Maybe you should leave retirement and get a job where you can bully employees."

Huh ? I'm no where near retirement, and don't bully anyone.

" What they stood for in the end was killing those who get in their way. "

The British weren't killing anyone, and the Founders were still hell bent on fighting for their freedom. Hell, John Adams even stood in DEFENSE of British soldiers who had killed Boston colonists. And he won, too.

But don't forget... " The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed, from time to time, w/ the blood of patriots and tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson.

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Sunday, March 29, 2015 10:21 AM