REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

2016 Presidential debate: Round 3

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, October 21, 2016 11:00
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Thursday, October 20, 2016 6:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In answer to the question about funding Social Security and Medicare and listening to Hillary drone on and on about her (probably meaningless) tax plan .... "I will pay for everything" ... it occurred to me that there was an excellent question that SHOULD have been asked of Hillary. but a golden oppty was lost, which was

If Congress blocks your tax increases, and you cannot increase the tax revenues that you planned on getting, what parts of your programs are you willing to give up in order to balance the budget?

Applying the same logic to Trump If your economic plan does not achieve the growth that you are counting on to increase government revenues, would you consider raising taxes to balance the budget? If not, what spending would you decrease"

That line of questioning [What is your plan B?] should have been expanded to many areas to get the candidates off off their facile - but shallow -talking points.

Also, Trump's I will keep you all in suspense" was an interesting answer.

The floor is yours.


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Thursday, October 20, 2016 7:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hillary Clinton And Wall Street: Financial Industry May Control Retirement Savings In A Clinton Administration

Quote:

While Hillary Clinton has spent the presidential campaign saying as little as possible about her ties to Wall Street, the executive who some observers say could be her Treasury Secretary has been openly promoting a plan to give financial firms control of hundreds of billions of dollars in retirement savings. The executive is Tony James, president of the Blackstone Group.

The investment colossus is most famous in politics for its Republican CEO likening an Obama tax plan to a Nazi invasion. James, though, is a longtime Democrat — and one of Clinton’s top fundraisers. The billionaire sculpted the retirement initiative with a prominent labor economist whose work is supported by another investment mogul who is a big Clinton donor. The proposal has received bipartisan praise from prominent economic thinkers, and James says that Clinton’s top aides are warming to the idea.


http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/hillary-clinton-wall-street-f
inancial-industry-may-control-retirement-savings




Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Thursday, October 20, 2016 8:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


CNN thinks that Trump's late-debate dig at Clinton—"Such a nasty woman"—was what ultimately sunk him.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

That line of questioning [What is your plan B?] should have been expanded to many areas to get the candidates off off their facile - but shallow -talking points.

Also, Trump's I will keep you all in suspense" was an interesting answer.

Trump has the correct strategy for negotiating. As a seller he has enough sense to know that you never tell at the beginning of negotiations a potential buyer the minimum selling price you are willing to take or else the buyer offers you the minimum as their opening bid. That is why Presidents do not tell Congress at TV debates their Plan B before even starting the negotiation on Plan A.

Over the last few days, as Trump has begun to realize that he’s self-sabotaged a winnable race, he has taken to claiming that any loss will be the result of a “rigged election.” When his surrogates, including Pence, Giuliani and Newt Gingrich, insisted Trump was merely complaining about hostile media coverage, Trump ran to Twitter to insist that, no, no, many “polling places” are rigged too. Trump never misses an opportunity to humiliate those who would try to save him from himself.

Trump’s strategy makes no sense in terms of cobbling together a winning electoral coalition, but it is a cynical way of locking in market share for what may be his next venture: a media empire designed to fan the flames of paranoia and alienation for his populist voters, the Trumpketeers.(Mouseketeers?) Trump voters are old enough to remember the Mickey Mouse Club.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 10:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

Make America New Suckistan - he will make America so hated Internationally ...

"Will," you say? Trump has already done it.

Tehran, Moscow and plenty of other unfriendly governments are using coverage of the election as anti-American propaganda. The Persian theocracy’s censors allowed state-run television to air the third U.S. presidential debate. The network also aired the second showdown between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton two weeks ago — the first full coverage of a U.S. presidential debate in Iran.

Iranian television pundits discussed Trump’s claims that the U.S. election is “rigged.” They even used the opportunity to quote a writer who argued that our elections have been manipulated for “nearly 200 years.”

Trump made claims of a fraudulent election to bizarre speeches about “international banks.” Trump says the Iraqis’ Mosul offensive was timed for Clinton to “look good.” Trump also declared Iran “the big winner” in a Mosul victory, although it’s unclear whether he meant that it would be better to leave the Islamic State in charge there. I don’t know how to say “big winner” in Persian, but the people of Iran were saying it Wednesday night.

To say that Trump deals in conspiracy theories is an insult to the honest, hardworking Americans who think that aliens crash-landed in Roswell.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/rea
l-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:13 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:

Make America New Suckistan - he will make America so hated Internationally ...

"Will," you say? Trump has already done it.

Tehran, Moscow and plenty of other unfriendly governments are using coverage of the election as anti-American propaganda. The Persian theocracy’s censors allowed state-run television to air the third U.S. presidential debate. The network also aired the second showdown between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton two weeks ago — the first full coverage of a U.S. presidential debate in Iran.

Iranian television pundits discussed Trump’s claims that the U.S. election is “rigged.” They even used the opportunity to quote a writer who argued that our elections have been manipulated for “nearly 200 years.”

Trump made claims of a fraudulent election to bizarre speeches about “international banks.” Trump says the Iraqis’ Mosul offensive was timed for Clinton to “look good.” Trump also declared Iran “the big winner” in a Mosul victory, although it’s unclear whether he meant that it would be better to leave the Islamic State in charge there. I don’t know how to say “big winner” in Persian, but the people of Iran were saying it Wednesday night.

To say that Trump deals in conspiracy theories is an insult to the honest, hardworking Americans who think that aliens crash-landed in Roswell.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/rea
l-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate
/



Good discussion. It's hard to tell what damage, or as of yet, unrealized good will come from all the negative things Trump has said about our allies. Right now it has had a negative effect yes. Yet this is the first time foreign countries have seen many Americans are willing to separate themselves from them. It could make them better allies because they do count on the United States in a multitude of ways. This is something only time will tell.

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:06 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
It's possible - using my Super Magneto Ultra Spin Master set to Positive 11 - that Trump will do what the Republicans have been trying to do since Bush II: he will destroy the Republican party. My Spin Master says we can hope that from the Ashes and from the all too vivid memories of Trump 2016, they will build a new party based on the polar opposite of the Trump model. Trumponian Vitriol will be largely confined to a single frequency, channel 66, and only infect the mentally weak and sickly, who contribute virtually nothing to this country anyway. In other words, this could be the emotional ass whoopin' we all needed (I know, I know, I thought that was Sarah Palin too).



Funny G. That said I am hoping the republicans actually fight the democrats to become the party of the middle class. I have heard some republicans for the past few years asking out loud, when did we become the party of big business? I am hoping this is a wake up call for both parties.

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:47 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In the third debate, Trump blithely crapped on America’s most important tradition.

The United States have had 240 years of the military following civilian orders, so we’ve never had a coup. Presidents who are voted out leave office, so we’ve never had an armed revolution.

No other country in the world comes close. It’s by far American citizens’ most valuable political inheritance.

So it shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump just declared that he’s happy to throw it all away, like an underperforming casino or a 40-year-old first wife.

When asked by the moderator, Chris Wallace, if he would say “that you will absolutely accept the result of the election,” Trump replied “I will look at it at the time” — and then launched into a long diatribe about how the election is unfairly rigged against him.

“But sir, there is a tradition in this country,” Wallace interjected, “that no matter how hard fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign, that the loser concedes to the winner — not saying that you are necessarily going to be the you loser or the winner — but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying that you are not prepared now to commit to that principle?”

Trump answered: “What I’m saying is, I will tell you at the time. I will keep you in suspense, okay?”

Trump’s tantrum has to be viewed in the context of this American history:

The most remarkable thing about the American Revolution is not that George Washington took office but that he voluntarily left office after two terms.

The U.S. went on to develop a tradition of accepting election results even under the most shocking conditions. For instance, during the final stretches of the 1968 president race between Richard Nixon and Hubert Humphrey, President Johnson learned that Nixon had been privately negotiating with the government of South Vietnam to prolong the war and prevent a peace deal that would help Humphrey.

Johnson considered making the information public. However, his advisor Clark Clifford counseled him that “some elements of the story are so shocking in their nature that I’m wondering whether it would be good for the country to disclose the story and then possibly have Nixon elected. It could cast his whole administration under such doubt that I think it would be inimical to our country’s best interests.”

Here’s what Al Gore said to Bush after he conceded the highly contested 2000 election:
Quote:

Stephen Douglas told Abraham Lincoln, who had just defeated him for the presidency, “Partisan feeling must yield to patriotism. I’m with you, Mr. President, and God bless you.”

Well, in that same spirit, I say to president-elect Bush that what remains of partisan rancour must now be put aside, and may God bless his stewardship of this country.

Lots of people and things get called “un-American” and it’s almost never true. But Donald Trump is genuinely, deeply un-American.
https://theintercept.com/liveblogs/thirddebate/trump-blithely-craps-on
-americas-most-important-tradition
/

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 2:48 PM

THGRRI


Trump is totally void of loyalties to this country and our republic SECOND. Not to worry though he's through.

Bush to Clinton after election.


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Thursday, October 20, 2016 3:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Trump is totally void of loyalties to this country and our republic SECOND. Not to worry though he's through.

Trump is NOT through. My neighbor to the west of me has pledged his loyalty to Trump, wherever Trump goes. The same neighbor and the neighbor to the east has pledged to fight President Hillary, wherever that takes them. Do you see how that could be a problem if the neighbors are serious and not simply making a dramatic affectation? Now multiply that by all the votes Trump will get and divide by two because half are voting for Trump only because they push the button that reads Straight Party - Republican. That could be tens of millions of people intending to make the next 4 years as difficult as possible.

www.harrisvotes.com/SampleBallot/VoterBallot/E/0532-23.pdf


I should add that the neighbors to the east and west love me, but they hate each other. That hatred is to be expected from people who vote Republican. I've heard both sides' stories about their feud and the stories match, except for the part of who is in the wrong. I think both of them are arguing about a whole lot of nothing (it is about drivers ed cars using our public street) and both are crazy.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:26 PM

THGRRI


I'll spell it out. Trump will not be president. I predicted his starting a TV network after the elections many months ago.

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I'll spell it out. Trump will not be president. I predicted his starting a TV network after the elections many months ago.

I'm just thankful that all debates are finished. My nightmare was Trump bringing a two shot derringer to the debate and killing Hillary then himself. OMG, who would we vote for then? Would we have to endure another year of primaries and conventions to choose two new candidates for President? I couldn't take anymore. Luckily, I've already mailed my ballot in weeks ago. I don't need to pay attention to politics until next year.

Unless there is a local runoff election, then it is back to the polls.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, October 20, 2016 5:13 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I'll spell it out. Trump will not be president. I predicted his starting a TV network after the elections many months ago.

I'm just thankful that all debates are finished. My nightmare was Trump bringing a two shot derringer to the debate and killing Hillary then himself. OMG, who would we vote for then? Would we have to endure another year of primaries and conventions to choose two new candidates for President? I couldn't take anymore. Luckily, I've already mailed my ballot in weeks ago. I don't need to pay attention to politics until next year.

Unless there is a local runoff election, then it is back to the polls.




SECOND,ed

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Friday, October 21, 2016 3:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Anti-American sentiment has already had an effect in the Philippines.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:

Make America New Suckistan - he will make America so hated Internationally ...

"Will," you say? Trump has already done it.

Tehran, Moscow and plenty of other unfriendly governments are using coverage of the election as anti-American propaganda. The Persian theocracy’s censors allowed state-run television to air the third U.S. presidential debate. The network also aired the second showdown between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton two weeks ago — the first full coverage of a U.S. presidential debate in Iran.

Iranian television pundits discussed Trump’s claims that the U.S. election is “rigged.” They even used the opportunity to quote a writer who argued that our elections have been manipulated for “nearly 200 years.”

Trump made claims of a fraudulent election to bizarre speeches about “international banks.” Trump says the Iraqis’ Mosul offensive was timed for Clinton to “look good.” Trump also declared Iran “the big winner” in a Mosul victory, although it’s unclear whether he meant that it would be better to leave the Islamic State in charge there. I don’t know how to say “big winner” in Persian, but the people of Iran were saying it Wednesday night.

To say that Trump deals in conspiracy theories is an insult to the honest, hardworking Americans who think that aliens crash-landed in Roswell.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/rea
l-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-final-2016-presidential-debate
/



Good discussion. It's hard to tell what damage, or as of yet, unrealized good will come from all the negative things Trump has said about our allies. Right now it has had a negative effect yes. Yet this is the first time foreign countries have seen many Americans are willing to separate themselves from them. It could make them better allies because they do count on the United States in a multitude of ways. This is something only time will tell.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719


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Friday, October 21, 2016 3:16 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well said Second, well said.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
In the third debate, Trump blithely crapped on America’s most important tradition.

The United States have had 240 years of the military following civilian orders, so we’ve never had a coup. Presidents who are voted out leave office, so we’ve never had an armed revolution.

No other country in the world comes close. It’s by far American citizens’ most valuable political inheritance.

So it shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump just declared that he’s happy to throw it all away, like an underperforming casino or a 40-year-old first wife.

When asked by the moderator, Chris Wallace, if he would say “that you will absolutely accept the result of the election,” Trump replied “I will look at it at the time” — and then launched into a long diatribe about how the election is unfairly rigged against him.

“But sir, there is a tradition in this country,” Wallace interjected, “that no matter how hard fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign, that the loser concedes to the winner — not saying that you are necessarily going to be the you loser or the winner — but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying that you are not prepared now to commit to that principle?”

Trump answered: “What I’m saying is, I will tell you at the time. I will keep you in suspense, okay?”

Trump’s tantrum has to be viewed in the context of this American history:

The most remarkable thing about the American Revolution is not that George Washington took office but that he voluntarily left office after two terms.

The U.S. went on to develop a tradition of accepting election results even under the most shocking conditions. For instance, during the final stretches of the 1968 president race between Richard Nixon and Hubert Humphrey, President Johnson learned that Nixon had been privately negotiating with the government of South Vietnam to prolong the war and prevent a peace deal that would help Humphrey.

Johnson considered making the information public. However, his advisor Clark Clifford counseled him that “some elements of the story are so shocking in their nature that I’m wondering whether it would be good for the country to disclose the story and then possibly have Nixon elected. It could cast his whole administration under such doubt that I think it would be inimical to our country’s best interests.”

Here’s what Al Gore said to Bush after he conceded the highly contested 2000 election:
Quote:

Stephen Douglas told Abraham Lincoln, who had just defeated him for the presidency, “Partisan feeling must yield to patriotism. I’m with you, Mr. President, and God bless you.”

Well, in that same spirit, I say to president-elect Bush that what remains of partisan rancour must now be put aside, and may God bless his stewardship of this country.

Lots of people and things get called “un-American” and it’s almost never true. But Donald Trump is genuinely, deeply un-American.
https://theintercept.com/liveblogs/thirddebate/trump-blithely-craps-on
-americas-most-important-tradition/


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Friday, October 21, 2016 5:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.






Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Friday, October 21, 2016 6:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The proof of the pudding, so to speak, will be when Hillary announces her Cabinet.*

When Obama announced Timothy Geithner as his Treasury Scy instead of Sheila Bair, my heart sank. The crisis of that moment was financial system collapse, and Obama in that historic moment could have chosen the path of FDR - he had landslide support and a majority in Congress, and IF he had chosen to do meaningful things Congress would have remained Democratic. Instead, Obama chose "business as usual" and ordinary Americans, understanding that they had been betrayed, voted Democrats out of Congress two years later.

The crisis TODAY is "war with Russia", and the signal appointments that Hillary would make would be Scy State, Scy Defense, and Scy Homeland Security. There are more than enough neocons already vying for a slot in the Hillary Cabinet, such as Michael Morell, who infamously said "kill Russians and Iranians and threaten Assad", and "Birth this thing" Victoria Nuland. Apparently, Morell doesn't see the downside war, war, and more war, and neither does Vicki.

I finally waded thru the post that MAL4 was so anxious for me to respond to, in which she challenged me to come up with predictions for the disasters that would occur under HRC, and while I can take a reasonable guess from Hillary's past record that she is strongly neocon, and that for her and ESPECIALLY her backers, "business as usual" means more war, hybrid war, proxy war, and provocation; there are any number of "black swan" events that could shape her Presidency: Most of the important events which have shaped the past few Presidencies have been unlooked-for by most people, such as 9-11, Katrina, and the financial collapse.

The first one that comes to mind is another financial/ economic collapse. The US economy - and indeed ALL western economies - is like a thin layer of oil floating on a vast sea of debt. And the primary debt-makers (lenders) are banks (not the USA government, which is a mere tightwad when it comes to creating debt) which are heavily invested in derivatives, to the tune of 6-10X the WORLD (not USA, world) GDP. The only reason the USA gets away with it is because it is the world reserve currency. The only things holding up the value of the almighty dollar is the almighty military and almighty habit. But when confidence in the dollar is broken, it could go into an almighty death spiral. But not to worry: should the banks collapse, the one investment that they MUST make good in is derivatives, and your bank accounts will be considered unsecured loans to the bank in that event, and used to shore up their business model.

The second black swan is Hillary's health. She is NOT a well woman. Anyone who has suffered a clot in her venous sinus has already had some form of hydrocephalus, and anyone who is on long-term coumadin has a 30% chance of a massive brain bleed, even if well-managed. Hillary herself may not be "the decider-in-chief", and part of the reason why she has so many wealthy backers is because they realize that, unlike Trump, Hillary is a meat puppet, and would only become even more so with time.

The third black swan is, of course, entirely self-made, and that is active direct war with Russia and possibly China, including cyber warfare.

Another potential black swan is natural disaster. Could be solar EMP, it could be an epidemic which reaches our shores like Ebola again (but more successfully this time), but the most likely is a climate disaster. Bush had his Katrina, Hillary may be faced with something just as dire.

Whatever the black swan event, Hillary will use it to create even more security agencies in the USA and attempt to control the internet. Maybe she will create some sort of "Secretary of Truthiness"




*Vice President,Secretary of State portrait, Scy Treasury, Scy Defense, Attorney General, Scy Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Friday, October 21, 2016 9:14 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The proof of the pudding, so to speak, will be when Hillary announces her Cabinet.*

* Secretary of Commerce

Commerce? [sarcasm] Is that your idea of an important appointment in order to know what Hillary really will do?[/sarcasm]

Nobody believes it, but politicians mostly keep their promises.

It is a scholarly conclusion that approximately zero normal people believe: Politicians make good-faith efforts to enact their campaign promises, and they are generally pretty good at getting the job done.

Political campaigns are full of big public pledges, and academic research indicates that those pledges are mostly kept. They are mostly kept by American presidents, mostly kept by members of Congress, and mostly kept by foreign politicians, too.

It’s important to recognize that politicians are constrained from delivering on their promises by reality. PolitiFact rather harshly throws everything Obama said he would do but didn’t deliver on into a “promises broken” bucket, even though in the majority of instances the fact that the promise has not been fulfilled can be laid at the feet of Congress rather than Obama.

There is probably no politician in American history whose dealings have been as extensively researched, investigated, FOIAed, subpoenaed, hacked, and WikiLeaked as Hillary Clinton. Despite this, many people regard her as sphinx-like and unknowable — yearning for even more secret documents to reveal what she really thinks and what she will really do as president.

Academic research on politicians and promises suggests a simpler method: Check her campaign website. In other words, Clinton’s promises tell us a lot about what will happen if she wins the election, and they tell us even more about what she will seriously, energetically try to do.

The best-kept secret in politics is that presidents mostly do what they say they’ll do — so paying attention to what the woman who is very likely to become president says she’ll do is worth your time.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/21/13317060/politicians-keep-p
romises



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 21, 2016 11:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The proof of the pudding, so to speak, will be when Hillary announces her Cabinet.*
* Secretary of Commerce = SIGNY

Commerce? [sarcasm] Is that your idea of an important appointment in order to know what Hillary really will do?[/sarcasm]

Is that the best you can do, SECOND? I provided a complete list of Cabinet-level positions simply as information, so that people wouldn't have to hunt up that info themselves. There's no need to be snarky about it. Unless, of course, you just want to be a jerk.

Quote:

Nobody believes it, but politicians mostly keep their promises.
Nobody believes it because it mostly isn't true. America is ruled by an oligarchy, not a republic and not a democracy.

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/artic
le/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B



Quote:

It is a scholarly conclusion that approximately zero normal people believe: Politicians make good-faith efforts to enact their campaign promises, and they are generally pretty good at getting the job done.
There's that word again: "believe". Don't you mean "accept"?

Quote:

Political campaigns are full of big public pledges, and academic research indicates that those pledges are mostly kept. They are mostly kept by American presidents, mostly kept by members of Congress, and mostly kept by foreign politicians, too.

The paper that I cited indicates that "people" mostly get what the wealthy want, because "people" and the wealthy mostly want the same decisions.

HOWEVER, even when a majority of people want something that the wealthy don't want, they don't get it. Example: the public option health insurance.

Quote:

Academic research on politicians and promises suggests a simpler method: Check her campaign website. In other words, Clinton’s promises tell us a lot about what will happen if she wins the election, and they tell us even more about what she will seriously, energetically try to do.


"Do. Or do not. There is no try."

The reason why politicians are able to keep many of their promises, as shown in the paper that I linked, is because most of the time there is no serious elite opposition to most of their promises. However, those promises which seriously skin the elite in some way won't be fulfilled.

That's why I focused in Hillary's tax plan as the least likely to make it through, which puts many of her other domestic plans in jeopardy. She will either get only minor tax concessions, spend as planned, and let the Federal debt go higher,

Or she will have to cut back on her plans in order to not increase the debt. My guess is that she will let the debt go higher, because it is more painless, in the sort run, to put everything on credit.





Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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