REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

the lying brain

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 13:13
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Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:49 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




https://www.rdmag.com/article/2016/10/study-what-happens-frequent-liar
s-brain

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/10/how-lying-takes-our-br
ains-down-slippery-slope


Study: What Happens to a Frequent Liar’s Brain

New research provides the first empirical evidence that self-serving lies gradually escalate and shows how this happens in our brains.

Small lies tend to turn into bigger ones and desensitize the brain to dishonesty, where certain areas of the brain respond less to the negative emotion. It was found that the amygdala — a part of the brain associated with emotion — was most active when people first lied for personal gain. But the amygdala’s response to lying declined with every lie while the amount of lies escalated.

“What decreased was the sensitivity to dishonesty – this was very specific to the exact amount someone lied, and it was detected only in the emotional network, not elsewhere,” said Tali Sharot.

“When we lie for personal gain, our amygdala produces a negative feeling that limits the extent to which we are prepared to lie,” said Sharot in a statement. “However, this response fades as we continue to lie, and the more it falls the bigger our lies become. This may lead to a ‘slippery slope’ where small acts of dishonesty escalate into more significant lies.”



And after years and years of lying for personal gain, what must a person's sense of reality - HILLARY'S sense of reality - resemble?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-28/meet-grifters-chief-wsj-lashe
s-out-hillary-scandals


The Wall Street Journal appears to have decided that honesty is the best policy... perhaps concerned for its reputation once this short-sighted farce is over.

First, The Wall Street Journal's Kimberley Strassel appears to have taken a stand for honest reportage in her latest op-ed, lashing out at the "griefters-in-chief" stating The Clintons don't draw lines between their 'charity' and personal enrichment.

In an election season that has been full of surprises, let’s hope the electorate understands that there is at least one thing of which it can be certain: A Hillary Clinton presidency will be built, from the ground up, on self-dealing, crony favors, and an utter disregard for the law.



http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion
-of-truth

The key finding is that people tend to rate items they've seen before as more likely to be true, regardless of whether they are true or not, and seemingly for the sole reason that they are more familiar.

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, is a law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels. Among psychologists something like this known as the "illusion of truth" effect. Here's how a typical experiment on the effect works: participants rate how true trivia items are, things like "A prune is a dried plum". Sometimes these items are true (like that one), but sometimes participants see a parallel version which isn't true (something like "A date is a dried plum").

After a break – of minutes or even weeks – the participants do the procedure again, but this time some of the items they rate are new, and some they saw before in the first phase. The key finding is that people tend to rate items they've seen before as more likely to be true, regardless of whether they are true or not, and seemingly for the sole reason that they are more familiar.


Or, as krappo proudly asserts: "Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

More succinctly, things are accepted not because they're factual, but because they have 'truthiness'.



http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-swaim-politics-lie-word-201
60619-snap-story.html


http://bottomlineinc.com/why-everybody-is-lying/



This is a moral challenge: what are you going to do? Cocoon yourself in the cozy, familiar, biased self-serving "truthiness" your government feeds you day after day? Or hold yourself to a higher standard based on facts and evidence?

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's an interesting paper.

I had an in-law who was a horror show inside, and one of the things that was the most repulsive about her was that she would lie to everyone about even the most inconsequential things. Even worse, she lied to HERSELF about what she was doing and why she was doing it, and in the end she killed her brother because she lied and lied and lied and lied to herself about his medical emergency. Funny thing was, she inherited his estate. Talk about a vulture on the bedpost!

In any case, the paper explains her quite well, and it explains Hillary too.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Sunday, October 30, 2016 7:46 AM

REAVERFAN


This explains Trump's inability to say anything true.

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 8:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Trump is what I call a "bullshitter". He can bullshit with the best of them. But when he talks about jobs going abroad, or about endless wars that can't be won, or the rigged economic system, or our broken political system, he's speaking the truth.




Hillary, OTOH, is a carefully-crafted liar. Everything she says and does has been designed to (1) keep herself out of jail (2) convince you that she's OK-enough to vote for (3) further the interests of her keepers.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


hillary lies about EVERYTHING, from her position on NAFTA to what a great success Libya was to US first-strike policy.

But hey reaverfan, if you're lying to yourself about that - and it's a common problem with hillary supporters for sure - then by all means keep yourself in that fact-free bubble you like so much.

Just remember ...



I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 1:31 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:



What Happens to a Frequent Liar’s Brain

New research provides the first empirical evidence that self-serving lies gradually escalate and shows how this happens in our brains.

Small lies tend to turn into bigger ones and desensitize the brain to dishonesty, where certain areas of the brain respond less to the negative emotion. It was found that the amygdala — a part of the brain associated with emotion — was most active when people first lied for personal gain. But the amygdala’s response to lying declined with every lie while the amount of lies escalated.



This study was custom built for you and SIG 1kiki pay attention. And while I hold out hope it's not to late for you, it would take a miracle.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 1:33 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
hillary lies about EVERYTHING, from her position on NAFTA to what a great success Libya was to US first-strike policy.

But hey reaverfan, if you're lying to yourself about that - and it's a common problem with hillary supporters for sure - then by all means keep yourself in that fact-free bubble you like so much.

1kiki, which number is bigger? 71 or 26?

Politifact fact-checked more than 300 Trump claims. About 71 percent of them rated Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire.

Politifact fact-checked close to 300 Hillary claims. About 26 percent of her statements rated Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/27/donald-trumps-top
-10-most-misleading-claims
/
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/27/hillary-clintons-
top-10-most-misleading-claims
/

1kiki, which number is bigger? 71 or 26? Spin a story for us, 1kiki.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Politifact doesn't subject hillary to the same level of scrutiny.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Politifact doesn't subject hillary to the same level of scrutiny.- KIKI


No shit.

Here are some of Hillary's whoppers from the last debate

Quote:

So I actually think the most important question of this evening, Chris, is, finally, will Donald Trump admit and condemn that the Russians are doing this and make it clear that he will not have the help of Putin in in this election, that he rejects Russian espionage against Americans, which he actually encouraged in the past? Those are the questions we need answered.
Trump, you need to answer this question- When did you stop beating your wife?

Quote:

Well, that's because he'd [Putin] rather have a puppet as president of the United States.


And again

Quote:

you are willing to spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up NATO, do whatever he wants to do, and that you continue to get help from him, because he has a very clear favorite in this race.

So I think that this is such an unprecedented situation. We've never had a foreign government trying to interfere in our election. We have 17 -- 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyberattacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin and they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing.

and more

Quote:

17 intelligence -- do you doubt 17 military and civilian...


Quote:

the United States has kept the peace through our alliances.
Kept the peace? More like waged war ...

Quote:

I also will not add a penny to the debt.
Unless Hillary gets her tax plan through ... 0% probability ... then she will add to the debt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/19/the-final-tr
ump-clinton-debate-transcript-annotated
/



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Sunday, October 30, 2016 5:22 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
hillary lies about EVERYTHING, from her position on NAFTA to what a great success Libya was to US first-strike policy.

But hey reaverfan, if you're lying to yourself about that - and it's a common problem with hillary supporters for sure - then by all means keep yourself in that fact-free bubble you like so much.

1kiki, which number is bigger? 71 or 26?

Politifact fact-checked more than 300 Trump claims. About 71 percent of them rated Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire.

Politifact fact-checked close to 300 Hillary claims. About 26 percent of her statements rated Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/27/donald-trumps-top
-10-most-misleading-claims
/
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/27/hillary-clintons-
top-10-most-misleading-claims
/

1kiki, which number is bigger? 71 or 26? Spin a story for us, 1kiki.




No debating morons SECOND. Both SIG and 1kik go around the facts so they can get back to fantasy land as quickly as possible.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


fwiw I also found hillary's omissions just as important. This is one I noticed immediately, and it has to do with the Fourth Amendment which clearly states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

And I feel strongly that the Supreme Court needs to stand on the side of the American people, not on the side of the powerful corporations and the wealthy. For me, that means that we need a Supreme Court that will stand up on behalf of women's rights, on behalf of the rights of the LGBT community, that will stand up and say no to Citizens United, a decision that has undermined the election system in our country because of the way it permits dark, unaccountable money to come into our electoral system.

I have major disagreements with my opponent about these issues and others that will be before the Supreme Court. But I feel that at this point in our country's history, it is important that we not reverse marriage equality, that we not reverse Roe v. Wade, that we stand up against Citizens United, we stand up for the rights of people in the workplace, that we stand up and basically say: The Supreme Court should represent all of us.


But not a word about ubiquitous government data collection and spying - for example, the half a BILLION yahoo email accounts that were hacked at the request of the government. But exactly which agency requested it, and what the government hoped to gain by hacking a half a BILLION accounts - where clearly the VAST majority were innocent citizens going about their daily lives - well, our 'democratic' government doesn't think its citizens have the right to privacy from the government, or the right to know what the government is doing to them.

This is just like hillary's smug - and bogus - claims that Trump is unfit to have his finger on 'the button'. She knows that a president can't launch a nuclear strike just on a personal say-so. And she knows that long-standing US policy is to reserve the right to launch nuclear weapons FIRST. But that doesn't stop her from pretending otherwise.

Unlimited government spying and first-strike prerogative - those are two things she's keeping smugly unmentioned in her waddling back pocket.





I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 6:30 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
fwiw I also found hillary's omissions just as important. This is one I noticed immediately, and it has to do with the Fourth Amendment which clearly states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."




We agree, I feel Trump would be a disaster as well.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 6:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

No debating morons SECOND. Both SIG and 1kik go around the facts so they can get back to fantasy land as quickly as possible.

Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.

I don’t feel anything about Hillary, but I do feel Democratic. I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions. On the other hand, I do support continuing Obamacare based upon dead people I knew that didn't have health insurance. Trump’s pledge to wreck Obamacare as best he can does raise some passion. And I have some feeling about Trump hiding his income tax returns and all his secret conflicts of interest yet to be revealed.

Joss Whedon’s Verdict shows a different set of passions! His ad reminds us what else the 2016 election is really about:



Why Joss Whedon’s “Verdict” packs an emotional punch.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/28/13441552/verdict-whedon-sav
e-the-day

by Matthew Yglesias, Oct 28, 2016, 11:10a

On Wednesday, Joss Whedon’s Save The Day PAC released my favorite ad of the 2016 campaign season. Titled “Verdict” and available in both English and Spanish, the two-minute long ad depicts a day in the life of a Hispanic family interspersed with television and radio commentary about the pace of voter turnout — low overall but high in some areas. At the end, the news is ready to announce the winner and a little girl asks her dad, “Papi, can we stay?”

It doesn’t mention either candidate or party and is ostensibly simply part of a campaign to encourage people to vote, but anyone with half a brain sees it as a heartstrings-tugging piece of advocacy for Hillary Clinton. It had me in tears.

The ad spoke to me, personally, in a way nothing else I’ve seen this campaign season did for two big reasons.

The first is that it highlights the reality of working-class people of color, who have often been erased from discourse around the economic anxiety of Trump supporters and the multi-millionaire son of a multi-millionaire’s blue color appeal. Here’s an alarm clock set for 4 am, a man opening a store, a maid cleaning a kitchen, a cook making a living in a taco truck, etc. They’re not relaxing with their soy lattes after yoga. There are millions of people like them in the United States, and their votes are crucial to the election.

The other is that even though the past few months of the campaign have not really had a policy focus, the ad is a reminder that there is very much a policy core to Trump’s campaign.

There are millions of people Trump is promising to deport from the United States, and he’s premised those deportations on the idea that certain kinds of immigrants are inherently criminal. Meanwhile, Clinton is promising to let stay in the United States. And those millions have millions more in children, spouses, siblings, cousins, friends, and colleagues who will miss them if they are forcibly removed from the country.

After losing the 2012 presidential election, the Republican Party wrote an autopsy report, the key premise of which was that the GOP had to demonstrate a greater level of interest in Latino concerns. Donald Trump’s key premise from the moment he announced his candidacy was just the opposite — it was time to stop being PC and start getting tough; stop sympathizing with the motives of the undocumented and start calling them murderers and rapists; stop worrying about the practical and humanitarian aspects of mass deportation and start promising it; stop worrying about making nice with Mexico and start talking about coercing Mexico into paying for the wall.

Obviously Clinton’s campaign has its reasons for keeping the closing argument focus on other matters. And obviously Trump supporters are not going to appreciate this ad’s framing of the deportation issue. But this really was Trump’s original core differentiator from the GOP field. And since he won the nomination, there hasn’t been much dissent about it from other elected officials in his party.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 10:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

This is just like hillary's smug - and bogus - claims that Trump is unfit to have his finger on 'the button'. She knows that a president can't launch a nuclear strike just on a personal say-so. And she knows that long-standing US policy is to reserve the right to launch nuclear weapons FIRST. But that doesn't stop her from pretending otherwise.

1kiki, Trump can't destroy the Earth's climate with a push of a Paris Agreement button, either.

But Trump denies that there is such a thing as climate change. You can read about what he and the GOP think about climate change here, if you want:
www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/30/the-real-reason-why-trump-is-right
-and-hillary-is-wrong-on-climate-change
/

It just so happens that Hillary has an opinion about climate change that is the opposite of Trump's. There are good reasons to believe that President Trump really will break the Paris Agreement, just because he can.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Nations_Climate_Change_Confe
rence


Climate change could easily worsen the inequality that has already hollowed out the Western middle class. A recent analysis in Nature projected that the effects of climate change will reduce the average person’s income by 23 percent by the end of the century. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency predicts that unmitigated global warming could cost the American economy $200 billion this century. (Some climate researchers think the EPA undercounts these estimates.)

Future consumers will not register these costs so cleanly, though—there will not be a single climate-change debit exacted on everyone’s budgets at year’s end. Instead, the costs will seep in through many sources: storm damage, higher power rates, real-estate depreciation, unreliable and expensive food. Climate change could get laundered, in other words, becoming just one more symptom of a stagnant and unequal economy. As quality of life declines, and insurance premiums rise, people could feel that they’re being robbed by an aloof elite.

They won’t even be wrong. It’s just that due to the chemistry of climate change, many members of that elite will have died 30 or 50 years prior. By "elite", I mean "Trump".
www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/trump-the-first-demagogue-
of-the-anthropocene/504134
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 30, 2016 10:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.


You have no clue because you're an idiot - or you CLAIM to have no clue because you're a liar. My bet is on liar, because I've been EXTREMELY clear about what I don't like about hillary and I've repeated it at least three dozen times.

Here are some quotes - enjoy.



http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1 page 1

Hillary's record as Sec State is replete with serious judgment errors (private server, bombing Libya), claimed lack of information (re the US running arms out of the US embassy annex in Benghazi through Turkey to ISIS - she claimed she didn't know arms were being shipped, and then that she didn't know they were going to ISIS), and support for neo-con action (Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland, who was taped selecting the US pick for the next Ukrainian PM after the coup). And she voted for the Iraq war.
Along with her vote for the US Patriot Act, and her support of so-called 'free -trade' agreements, her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

Hillary's voting record, her warmongering record as Secy of State, her collusion with neocons, her support of prison corporations, her profitable relationship with international corporatists, her support of 'free' trade agreements (all of them) or her stated policies, for example, her support of Israel no matter what. I'm about what kind of economy we'll have, whether or not we'll be at war, and will it be with Russia, how much spying will we be subject to, and other vital questions.

her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country

The Middle East is engulfed in flames because of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (aided by Democrats like Clinton) and unintended consequences, or blowback, like ISIS.

"She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries," Saltzgaver told BuzzFeed.

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

her stated policies like for example her support of Israel no matter what

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2 page 2

second, Well, Hillary IS evil. I'd say bombing a previously stable Libya into a failed state full of despotic wannabes and jihadis, fomenting a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian government, and running arms out of Libya and to ISIS in Syria count as evil. Wouldn't you? So, let me ask again: in light of her on-the-record evilness, which she's neither renounced nor modified, why should I vote FOR Hillary? What about my future with Hillary is so awesome that I should rethink my evaluation of her?

Because, when it gets down to it, Donald is far less likely to get us into a war.

I think hillary's the person who sees the Kochs as quaint, provincial, limited, backwater - in other words, minor and ignorable - compared to the international powers they've been playing with, and on whom they've staked their future.

Trump is a chaotic unknown, but he's not beholden to the war-mongering neo-cons that the war-mongering Clinton is. This could be an existential decision. And I don't want Clinton at the helm, playing chicken with Russia, the way she did from her lowly position as Secretary of State.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=3 page 3

she supports down-ticket candidates
Except, she doesn't. Her campaign has Hoovered-up 99% of that money.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-littl
she's a democrat
Who remarkably doesn't care about 45%+ of what voting democrats think.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4 page 4

One very long article that definitively portrays Hillary the Hawk - but fails completely and without exception to explain why her bent to confrontation under every circumstance would turn out well. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-
a-hawk.html

Speaking of a corrupt party: Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

So, war with Russia is a possibility. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to change my opinion of Hillary and forgive her for Libya, Ukraine, and Syria because she's like General Leia? Mai got. Is this what passes for analysis? For thought? For reason and proportion? Is this the best reason to vote for her that Hillary's got going?

Third World War, the Key Is On “Start”

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya

We've already talked about her negatives - potential indictments, unconcern for the working and middle class and focus on big-money interests (those free trade agreements she was for before she was sort-of against; cozy big-bank relationships), famously insincere and hypocritical on the issues, running a campaign of identity politics; revolving-door wealth through the Clinton Foundation, State Department, and individually; corruptly in bed with the corrupt minions of the democratic party, a history of VERY BAD judgment on Libya, Ukraine and Syria - which she refuses to acknowledge and correct, and, my all-time favorite, neo-con war-hawk jonesing for a nuclear confrontation with Russia (probably by miscalculation, but hey, it's not like she has a history of serious miscalculations or anything! nope, if you listen to her everything's all good!).

I'm an 'anybody but Hillary' kind of voter, for reasons I've explained more than once. But I'll go through MY reasons, again.
With the smoking ruins of US Libyan policy, Ukrainian policy, and Syrian policy laid at Hillary's feet, with her bellicose statements against Russia on her website, with her 'Israel first and always' commitment, AND WITH HER REFUSAL TO ADMIT HER EFFORTS HAVE GONE BADLY AND NEED RETHINKING - I don't want her finger anywhere near the red button.
And I don't want her spoiling for a fight against anyone else who has THEIR finger on the red button.
She's pointlessly aggressive, an inveterate liar of the neo-CON stripe who has no ethics about ceaselessly misleading the country - and risking our lives, has a history of deeply flawed judgment about the US role in international dealings - and, let me say this again ...
... shows absolutely ZERO ability to admit to and learn from the things she's done that have ALL, without exception, gone completely, terribly wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5 page 5

My concerns are VERY FOCUSED on Hillary's neo-CON agenda in the international sphere. I don't care about her persona on stage, the fact that she's a woman (and what an abysmally sexist reason to vote for someone), or even that she's for all those 'free' trade agreements as long as no one's looking

Award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill, one of the world’s leading experts on the secretive CIA drone program, commented, “So many liberals poo poo the Hillary email scandal for totally partisan reasons. If it was a Republican, they would be going bananas. People claiming emails on Hillary’s private server were not classified do not understand how classification works,” Scahill added. “It’s an HRC talking point.”

“It’s not going to happen,” Ihillary indictment due to unsecured private server) he (Assange) said. “But the FBI can push for concessions from a Clinton government. Fantastic. President Hillary being blackmailed by the FBI.

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite

Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary


Now I COULD go on for the next 5 pages from that one particular thread - and remember, all of this comes from only one-half of just one thread - but I think I've made my point.

SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.


C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 2:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

No debating morons SECOND.= THUGR
says the moron.

Quote:

Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t feel anything about Hillary, but I do feel Democratic. I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.

Joss Whedon’s Verdict shows a different set of passions! His ad reminds us what else the 2016 election is really about...

On Wednesday, Joss Whedon’s Save The Day PAC released my favorite ad of the 2016 campaign season. Titled “Verdict” and available in both English and Spanish, the two-minute long ad depicts a day in the life of a Hispanic family interspersed with television and radio commentary about the pace of voter turnout — low overall but high in some areas. At the end, the news is ready to announce the winner and a little girl asks her dad, “Papi, can we stay?”


Well, since PAPI CAN'T VOTE BECAUSE PAPI ISN'T A CITIZEN, I GUESS NOT.


Quote:

... anyone with half a brain sees it as a heartstrings-tugging piece of advocacy for Hillary Clinton. It had me in tears.
Your statement that "we" vote out of emotion is just YOU voting out of emotion.

But yanno, I think this is the first honest post from you. Mostly, you have scoured the internet looking for other people's justifications for YOUR emotions. Finally, you have spoken with your own voice.

Now about illegal immigration. It is such a tragedy that people have to flee the poverty and violence of their homeland. Like from Honduras. It was interesting that after Manuel Zelaya was deposed in a coup in 2009 - supported by Hillary Clinton - unaccompanied children zoomed up in the USA.

Or how about Mexico? Although it's not widely known in the USA, Mexicans themselves complain about NAFTA, and how it has hurt their small farmers, tossing them off the land and into poverty. http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/11/24/what-weve-learned-from
-nafta/under-nafta-mexico-suffered-and-the-united-states-felt-its-pain
And despite the history of failed internationalism and widespread protests, Mexico's elite has decided to take yet another plunge into international corporatism, this time with their oil company Pemex.

And of course, there is the War on Drugs, which has helped make Mexico a narco-state. As my Mexican friend sighs "Poor Mexico. So close to the United States and so far from God" Well, yanno, I could go on ... and on ... about the USA's interference in events south of the border, including in Brazil and Venezuela. The international elites here and there have had it so cozy for so long, they just don't want the party to stop, and they will do anything ... lie, cheat, steal, kill ... to stay on top of the pile.

So, if you were REALLY ... and I mean REALLY ... for the poor working class of any color and in any nation, you wouldn't be supporting that bought-and-paid-for hag who has betrayed the poor working class everywhere and at every opportunity. You might not be supporting Trump, but you sure as hell wouldn't be behind the woman who is really for Goldman Sachs and whoever can pay her the most money, which was stolen from people around the world.

I "get" that there are many causes which are critical, some of which hit close to your heart. And I credit you with wanting to help people. But I think that you haven't thought to the root of many problems, and that you're trying to resolve what are, at best, only symptoms. I have spent a lifetime being a do-gooder, and over time I've come to see that even with so many people pushing in the same direction, all it takes is one powerful person to undo the work of tens of thousands. So don't waste your sincere emotions on insincere people who really want just "more of the same". Ask yourself which is more important: being for migrant's rights, or bombing the snot out of people elsewhere? Unless you solve the big problems, you will never solve the small ones. You have to put things in perspective. If you're a young person, you of course have the excuse of lack of experience, but if you're over 50 you're completely responsible for the state of your mind and have no excuse whatsoever.

I also "get" that you can't possibly support Trump. At my age, I think it would be great entertainment value to see the rich and powerful shit their pants ... I have this mental image of a flock of chickens launching themselves into the air in a feather=loosening panic ... but then I have the benefit of being either very cynical or very realistic, I can't tell which. But go vote for somebody who is worth your vote, not Hillary, because she isn't worth spit on a sidewalk.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:13 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


second isn't for the poor, the forsaken, the downtrodden, the suffering, the powerless. If she was, she wouldn't have dismissed Bernie out of hand because he was stooped. second is a bought and paid for whore.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


btw, I have an answer for what to do about the ILLEGAL immigrants. And it doesn't involve deportation - OR being rewarded with citizenship. Because they're here ILLEGALLY - their punishment is that they have to pay a fine for every year they've been here and will continue to be here - and they will never, EVER, be allowed to become citizens.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
second isn't for the poor, the forsaken, the downtrodden, the suffering, the powerless. If she was, she wouldn't have dismissed Bernie out of hand because he was stooped. second is a bought and paid for whore.



I guess I give her the benefit of doubt. Unlike THUGR and KPO, who have snakes in their heads.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:45 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Poor thuggr is a brain-damaged fool who probably couldn't get out of the rain by himself if he tried. I know it because despite looking like an idiot over and over and over and over and over - he can't get an inkling that maybe he's doing something wrong - let alone how to to do anything differently. As for neo-liberal krappo, in a delicious example of karma at work, Brexit fell on top of him. And now all he has left to rally for are his own tired propaganda slogans. The world works in mysterious ways.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Poor thuggr is a brain-damaged fool who probably couldn't get out of the rain by himself if he tried. I know it because despite looking like an idiot over and over and over and over and over - he can't get an inkling that maybe he's doing something wrong - let alone how to to do anything differently. As for neo-liberal krappo, in a delicious example of karma at work, Brexit fell on top of him. And now all he has to rally for are his own tired propaganda slogans. The world works in mysterious ways.




HAHAHA!
At some point, I'll post my definition of intelligence. Right now, he doesn't make the grade.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Monday, October 31, 2016 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.

What you did is no big deal: Even my next door Republican neighbors have very expressive, well defined, extremely detailed explanations of why Hillary should not be President. They can repeat that performance for Obama, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman, FDR, etc. Did you know that FDR is responsible for Pearl Harbor? Ask the neighbors and they will tell you how FDR lured the Japanese into attacking, which made it impossible for the Republicans in Congress to keep America at peace.

According to my neighbors, all were terribly flawed Presidents and should never have been elected, according to these Texas Republicans. And, by the way, Ronald Reagan was a saintly President who saved the USA! He brought about peace with the USSR!

In response to second, 1kiki wrote thousands of words on an obscure website that will only be read by a dozen people and most of those few people 1kiki finds contemptible. That is passion, 1kiki. You could have stopped at 200 words, but you couldn’t stop yourself, which is exactly like my neighbors when they talk about any Democrat. 1kiki again demonstrated the point that “Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason” and “1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary”.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 31, 2016 10:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In response to second, 1kiki wrote thousands of words on an obscure website that will only be read by a dozen people and most of those few people 1kiki finds contemptible. That is passion, 1kiki. You could have stopped at 200 words, but you couldn’t stop yourself, which is exactly like my neighbors when they talk about any Democrat.
Hmmm... I read this and thought of you, SECOND.

The differences, however, between KIKI and you are

(1)KIKI wrote logically about policy issues that were important for KIKI. You OTOH grabbed any cartoon, video, or opinion piece ... it was kind of a random sampling of hate, without any fixed target.

(1) KIKI wrote for KIKI. You didn't express your own opinion because it didn't seem like you had a one. All you had was a pastiche of other people's opinions to give shape to your animus.


It wasn't until that post about Whedon's ad that I felt that you finally spoke for yourself. Don't assume that others have the same motivation and rationalizations that you do.



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Monday, October 31, 2016 10:34 AM

THGRRI


SECOND looking at what you post in the many different threads, we see you make good points that go completely ignored. That's because SIG and 1kiki are trolling. No matter how objectively you post, if you challenge what they are claiming in any way, you will get a subjective bullshit response.

I hate having to vote for Clinton but that accounts for nothing when it comes to 1kiki and SIG. They are attacking her relentlessly because their agenda is a victorious Trump.

We're seeing that Putin's involvement in the Ukraine is being revealed through hacked emails, so his defenders 1kiki and SIG are ignoring that thread. Putin's bombing of hospitals and civilians in Syria has cost them a seat on the human rights council. No response form 1kiki and SIG. They are running from that thread as well. They are creating new threads here faster than the rest of us can keep up because the others are becoming untenable.

Love your work


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.

What you did is no big deal: Even my next door Republican neighbors have very expressive, well defined, extremely detailed explanations of why Hillary should not be President. They can repeat that performance for Obama, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman, FDR, etc. Did you know that FDR is responsible for Pearl Harbor? Ask the neighbors and they will tell you how FDR lured the Japanese into attacking, which made it impossible for the Republicans in Congress to keep America at peace.

According to my neighbors, all were terribly flawed Presidents and should never have been elected, according to these Texas Republicans. And, by the way, Ronald Reagan was a saintly President who saved the USA! He brought about peace with the USSR!

In response to second, 1kiki wrote thousands of words on an obscure website that will only be read by a dozen people and most of those few people 1kiki finds contemptible. That is passion, 1kiki. You could have stopped at 200 words, but you couldn’t stop yourself, which is exactly like my neighbors when they talk about any Democrat. 1kiki again demonstrated the point that “Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason” and “1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary”.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Monday, October 31, 2016 11:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Trump has got all the usual conservative hot buttons covered -- taxes, abortion, Supreme Court justices, etc. -- as well as a seductive pitch to the working class about bringing back their jobs. Nonetheless, race-based (and gender-based) resentment is clearly at the core of his campaign. If the Republican Party continues along the path of open white ethnocentrism that Trump has re-energized, it will be bad for the country. There is another election in 2020, you know, so this ethnocentrism will continue after Nov 8, 2016, but it will be less openly touted.

The Republican Party was unable to stop Trump during the primaries because it could never come to grips with who he really is and what he appeals to. Conservatives just won't admit that Trump normalized an unashamed race-based populism. They've never been willing to stomach the political cost of acknowledging this.

This is why Trump's Republican opponents launched such feeble attacks on him. They couldn't call him out for his racism because (a) he was just being a little more explicit about it than them, (b) it risked losing the tea party base, and (c) conservatives are not supposed to admit that racism exists. So Trump slid by, and then got clobbered by a Democrat who had no such constraints. The GOP has a very appealing message, but their mistake was to pick the wrong, maybe, messenger to deliver it with no subtlety at all.

In the April NBC/WSJ poll -- before the GOP primary season concluded -- Clinton led Trump in a hypothetical matchup by 11 points (50%-39%), but she was ahead by just two points against Ted Cruz (46%-44%), and she trailed John Kasich by 12 (51%-39%). If the GOP had picked Kasich, it would be well ahead of the Democrats, mostly because Kasich, and even Cruz, have more conventional personal histories and less weird personalities than Trump.
www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/how-republicans-ended-trump-n67166
6



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 31, 2016 1:11 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The Republican Party was unable to stop Trump during the primaries because it could never come to grips with who he really is and what he appeals to. Conservatives just won't admit that Trump normalized an unashamed race-based populism. They've never been willing to stomach the political cost of acknowledging this.



I believe "stomach" is slightly misleading - it makes it sound like they had a moral, emotional center that was "offended" and not one based on "WH at all costs - eff anyone who gets in our way!" But I take their point.

They did not (nor did anyone else) have any idea Trump's brand of open Hate would work so well, or they would have embraced it before he did. It will be interesting to see if they adjust their algorithms by 2020.



G
"They did not (nor did anyone else) have any idea Trump's brand of open Hate would work so well, or they would have embraced it before he did. It will be interesting to see if they adjust their algorithms by 2020"


Yep

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Monday, October 31, 2016 2:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Come on! Let's just gas 'em! Get it done with.

strawman

Except that's not what I posted. My solution involved FINES and change of legal status FOR BREAKING THE LAW.

Do YOU have a problem with humanely upholding the law?




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Thanks for the bump 'g'.

But I think second would have preferred you hadn't.

You see, there's a rule for propagandists. It's to never respond to anything where your lies have been exposed, no matter how provocative that exposure is. Because, well, the more attention you bring to your methods, the less effective you become.

In fact, second NEVER responds to the post. But after steadfastly ignoring it, it buries it as quickly as it can after YOU so clumsily bring it up again.

But I'll prove to you that second is a professional, or at least a wanna be.

How? you might ask. Buy posting the original, again. And also, so it doesn't get 'accidentally' buried, like second wants it to be.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.


You have no clue because you're an idiot - or you CLAIM to have no clue because you're a liar. My bet is on liar, because I've been EXTREMELY clear about what I don't like about hillary and I've repeated it at least three dozen times.

Here are some quotes - enjoy.



http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1 page 1

Hillary's record as Sec State is replete with serious judgment errors (private server, bombing Libya), claimed lack of information (re the US running arms out of the US embassy annex in Benghazi through Turkey to ISIS - she claimed she didn't know arms were being shipped, and then that she didn't know they were going to ISIS), and support for neo-con action (Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland, who was taped selecting the US pick for the next Ukrainian PM after the coup). And she voted for the Iraq war.
Along with her vote for the US Patriot Act, and her support of so-called 'free -trade' agreements, her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

Hillary's voting record, her warmongering record as Secy of State, her collusion with neocons, her support of prison corporations, her profitable relationship with international corporatists, her support of 'free' trade agreements (all of them) or her stated policies, for example, her support of Israel no matter what. I'm about what kind of economy we'll have, whether or not we'll be at war, and will it be with Russia, how much spying will we be subject to, and other vital questions.

her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country

The Middle East is engulfed in flames because of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (aided by Democrats like Clinton) and unintended consequences, or blowback, like ISIS.

"She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries," Saltzgaver told BuzzFeed.

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

her stated policies like for example her support of Israel no matter what

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2 page 2

second, Well, Hillary IS evil. I'd say bombing a previously stable Libya into a failed state full of despotic wannabes and jihadis, fomenting a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian government, and running arms out of Libya and to ISIS in Syria count as evil. Wouldn't you? So, let me ask again: in light of her on-the-record evilness, which she's neither renounced nor modified, why should I vote FOR Hillary? What about my future with Hillary is so awesome that I should rethink my evaluation of her?

Because, when it gets down to it, Donald is far less likely to get us into a war.

I think hillary's the person who sees the Kochs as quaint, provincial, limited, backwater - in other words, minor and ignorable - compared to the international powers they've been playing with, and on whom they've staked their future.

Trump is a chaotic unknown, but he's not beholden to the war-mongering neo-cons that the war-mongering Clinton is. This could be an existential decision. And I don't want Clinton at the helm, playing chicken with Russia, the way she did from her lowly position as Secretary of State.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=3 page 3

she supports down-ticket candidates
Except, she doesn't. Her campaign has Hoovered-up 99% of that money.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-littl
she's a democrat
Who remarkably doesn't care about 45%+ of what voting democrats think.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4 page 4

One very long article that definitively portrays Hillary the Hawk - but fails completely and without exception to explain why her bent to confrontation under every circumstance would turn out well. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-
a-hawk.html

Speaking of a corrupt party: Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

So, war with Russia is a possibility. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to change my opinion of Hillary and forgive her for Libya, Ukraine, and Syria because she's like General Leia? Mai got. Is this what passes for analysis? For thought? For reason and proportion? Is this the best reason to vote for her that Hillary's got going?

Third World War, the Key Is On “Start”

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya

We've already talked about her negatives - potential indictments, unconcern for the working and middle class and focus on big-money interests (those free trade agreements she was for before she was sort-of against; cozy big-bank relationships), famously insincere and hypocritical on the issues, running a campaign of identity politics; revolving-door wealth through the Clinton Foundation, State Department, and individually; corruptly in bed with the corrupt minions of the democratic party, a history of VERY BAD judgment on Libya, Ukraine and Syria - which she refuses to acknowledge and correct, and, my all-time favorite, neo-con war-hawk jonesing for a nuclear confrontation with Russia (probably by miscalculation, but hey, it's not like she has a history of serious miscalculations or anything! nope, if you listen to her everything's all good!).

I'm an 'anybody but Hillary' kind of voter, for reasons I've explained more than once. But I'll go through MY reasons, again.
With the smoking ruins of US Libyan policy, Ukrainian policy, and Syrian policy laid at Hillary's feet, with her bellicose statements against Russia on her website, with her 'Israel first and always' commitment, AND WITH HER REFUSAL TO ADMIT HER EFFORTS HAVE GONE BADLY AND NEED RETHINKING - I don't want her finger anywhere near the red button.
And I don't want her spoiling for a fight against anyone else who has THEIR finger on the red button.
She's pointlessly aggressive, an inveterate liar of the neo-CON stripe who has no ethics about ceaselessly misleading the country - and risking our lives, has a history of deeply flawed judgment about the US role in international dealings - and, let me say this again ...
... shows absolutely ZERO ability to admit to and learn from the things she's done that have ALL, without exception, gone completely, terribly wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5 page 5

My concerns are VERY FOCUSED on Hillary's neo-CON agenda in the international sphere. I don't care about her persona on stage, the fact that she's a woman (and what an abysmally sexist reason to vote for someone), or even that she's for all those 'free' trade agreements as long as no one's looking

Award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill, one of the world’s leading experts on the secretive CIA drone program, commented, “So many liberals poo poo the Hillary email scandal for totally partisan reasons. If it was a Republican, they would be going bananas. People claiming emails on Hillary’s private server were not classified do not understand how classification works,” Scahill added. “It’s an HRC talking point.”

“It’s not going to happen,” Ihillary indictment due to unsecured private server) he (Assange) said. “But the FBI can push for concessions from a Clinton government. Fantastic. President Hillary being blackmailed by the FBI.

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite

Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary


Now I COULD go on for the next 5 pages from that one particular thread - and remember, all of this comes from only one-half of just one thread - but I think I've made my point.

SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.


C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Come on! Let's just gas 'em! Get it done with.- GSTRING
Like I said: snakes in his head. He has no idea what's real and what isn't, he's been lying to himself so long. It's impossible to have a moral standard, if you have no idea what you stand for. (That goes for you too, THUGR)

Quote:

In fact, second NEVER responds to the post. But after steadfastly ignoring it, it buries it as quickly as it can after YOU so clumsily bring it up again.
But I'll prove to you that second is a professional, or at least a wanna be.
How? you might ask. Buy posting the original, again. - KIKI



Sorry, I stepped on your post. I'll bring up the original, again, and see if SECOND has the balls, so to speak, to address it.

Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Monday, October 31, 2016 3:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.- SECOND

You have no clue because you're an idiot - or you CLAIM to have no clue because you're a liar. My bet is on liar, because I've been EXTREMELY clear about what I don't like about hillary and I've repeated it at least three dozen times.
Here are some quotes - enjoy.

Quote:


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1 page 1

Hillary's record as Sec State is replete with serious judgment errors (private server, bombing Libya), claimed lack of information (re the US running arms out of the US embassy annex in Benghazi through Turkey to ISIS - she claimed she didn't know arms were being shipped, and then that she didn't know they were going to ISIS), and support for neo-con action (Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland, who was taped selecting the US pick for the next Ukrainian PM after the coup). And she voted for the Iraq war.
Along with her vote for the US Patriot Act, and her support of so-called 'free -trade' agreements, her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

Hillary's voting record, her warmongering record as Secy of State, her collusion with neocons, her support of prison corporations, her profitable relationship with international corporatists, her support of 'free' trade agreements (all of them) or her stated policies, for example, her support of Israel no matter what. I'm about what kind of economy we'll have, whether or not we'll be at war, and will it be with Russia, how much spying will we be subject to, and other vital questions.

her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country

The Middle East is engulfed in flames because of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (aided by Democrats like Clinton) and unintended consequences, or blowback, like ISIS.

"She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries," Saltzgaver told BuzzFeed.

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

her stated policies like for example her support of Israel no matter what

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2 page 2

second, Well, Hillary IS evil. I'd say bombing a previously stable Libya into a failed state full of despotic wannabes and jihadis, fomenting a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian government, and running arms out of Libya and to ISIS in Syria count as evil. Wouldn't you? So, let me ask again: in light of her on-the-record evilness, which she's neither renounced nor modified, why should I vote FOR Hillary? What about my future with Hillary is so awesome that I should rethink my evaluation of her?

Because, when it gets down to it, Donald is far less likely to get us into a war.

I think hillary's the person who sees the Kochs as quaint, provincial, limited, backwater - in other words, minor and ignorable - compared to the international powers they've been playing with, and on whom they've staked their future.

Trump is a chaotic unknown, but he's not beholden to the war-mongering neo-cons that the war-mongering Clinton is. This could be an existential decision. And I don't want Clinton at the helm, playing chicken with Russia, the way she did from her lowly position as Secretary of State.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=3 page 3

she supports down-ticket candidates
Except, she doesn't. Her campaign has Hoovered-up 99% of that money.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-littl
she's a democrat
Who remarkably doesn't care about 45%+ of what voting democrats think.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4 page 4

One very long article that definitively portrays Hillary the Hawk - but fails completely and without exception to explain why her bent to confrontation under every circumstance would turn out well. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-
a-hawk.html

Speaking of a corrupt party: Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

So, war with Russia is a possibility. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to change my opinion of Hillary and forgive her for Libya, Ukraine, and Syria because she's like General Leia? Mai got. Is this what passes for analysis? For thought? For reason and proportion? Is this the best reason to vote for her that Hillary's got going?

Third World War, the Key Is On “Start”

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya

We've already talked about her negatives - potential indictments, unconcern for the working and middle class and focus on big-money interests (those free trade agreements she was for before she was sort-of against; cozy big-bank relationships), famously insincere and hypocritical on the issues, running a campaign of identity politics; revolving-door wealth through the Clinton Foundation, State Department, and individually; corruptly in bed with the corrupt minions of the democratic party, a history of VERY BAD judgment on Libya, Ukraine and Syria - which she refuses to acknowledge and correct, and, my all-time favorite, neo-con war-hawk jonesing for a nuclear confrontation with Russia (probably by miscalculation, but hey, it's not like she has a history of serious miscalculations or anything! nope, if you listen to her everything's all good!).

I'm an 'anybody but Hillary' kind of voter, for reasons I've explained more than once. But I'll go through MY reasons, again.
With the smoking ruins of US Libyan policy, Ukrainian policy, and Syrian policy laid at Hillary's feet, with her bellicose statements against Russia on her website, with her 'Israel first and always' commitment, AND WITH HER REFUSAL TO ADMIT HER EFFORTS HAVE GONE BADLY AND NEED RETHINKING - I don't want her finger anywhere near the red button.
And I don't want her spoiling for a fight against anyone else who has THEIR finger on the red button.
She's pointlessly aggressive, an inveterate liar of the neo-CON stripe who has no ethics about ceaselessly misleading the country - and risking our lives, has a history of deeply flawed judgment about the US role in international dealings - and, let me say this again ...
... shows absolutely ZERO ability to admit to and learn from the things she's done that have ALL, without exception, gone completely, terribly wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5 page 5

My concerns are VERY FOCUSED on Hillary's neo-CON agenda in the international sphere. I don't care about her persona on stage, the fact that she's a woman (and what an abysmally sexist reason to vote for someone), or even that she's for all those 'free' trade agreements as long as no one's looking

Award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill, one of the world’s leading experts on the secretive CIA drone program, commented, “So many liberals poo poo the Hillary email scandal for totally partisan reasons. If it was a Republican, they would be going bananas. People claiming emails on Hillary’s private server were not classified do not understand how classification works,” Scahill added. “It’s an HRC talking point.”

“It’s not going to happen,” Ihillary indictment due to unsecured private server) he (Assange) said. “But the FBI can push for concessions from a Clinton government. Fantastic. President Hillary being blackmailed by the FBI.

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite

Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary



Now I COULD go on for the next 5 pages from that one particular thread - and remember, all of this comes from only one-half of just one thread - but I think I've made my point.



C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some "vague", "emotional", unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.- KIKI





Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Monday, October 31, 2016 8:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Sorry, I stepped on your post. I'll bring up the original, again, and see if SECOND has the balls, so to speak, to address it.

I don't address your concerns, but I do think of 1kiki and Signym when I read this about the street ranters of Washington DC:

There's the guy I pass by every morning on K Street who stands in the same spot every day and in a calm steady tone delivers a monologue about the crimes that the United States Government committed domestically. He speaks in this calm monotone as though he were at a congressional hearing on the Hill, holding forth his testimony. He just stands there in the same spot every day—a Vietnam vet—talking up a litany of accusations against the government. I'm sure everyone thinks he's a whack job. Of course, most people ignore him as they go past him. But his demeanor, his cool, elegant rational voice, his precise elocution disturbs me and makes me look away, walk on a bit faster. I keep wondering how long he has been in this town and in which one of those chrome-and-concrete blocks of buildings he worked before he went nuts. I keep thinking he must've hurried to work once upon a time, every morning, just like we do now. I keep wondering if he used to be at some point, you know, one of us. You know? Are we doing now what he had probably done a long time ago? What exactly did he do and what did he find out or know? When did he decide, he'd tell other people about it? And when did he become a nut job? All at the same time?

www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2016/10/walking-past-the-white-house
.html



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 31, 2016 8:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.




Just to make it ABUNDANTLY clear to everyone else the lie you posted that you're so desperately trying to ignore.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.


You have no clue because you're an idiot - or you CLAIM to have no clue because you're a liar. My bet is on liar, because I've been EXTREMELY clear about what I don't like about hillary and I've repeated it at least three dozen times.

Here are some quotes - enjoy.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1 page 1

Hillary's record as Sec State is replete with serious judgment errors (private server, bombing Libya), claimed lack of information (re the US running arms out of the US embassy annex in Benghazi through Turkey to ISIS - she claimed she didn't know arms were being shipped, and then that she didn't know they were going to ISIS), and support for neo-con action (Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland, who was taped selecting the US pick for the next Ukrainian PM after the coup). And she voted for the Iraq war.
Along with her vote for the US Patriot Act, and her support of so-called 'free -trade' agreements, her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

Hillary's voting record, her warmongering record as Secy of State, her collusion with neocons, her support of prison corporations, her profitable relationship with international corporatists, her support of 'free' trade agreements (all of them) or her stated policies, for example, her support of Israel no matter what. I'm about what kind of economy we'll have, whether or not we'll be at war, and will it be with Russia, how much spying will we be subject to, and other vital questions.

her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country

The Middle East is engulfed in flames because of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (aided by Democrats like Clinton) and unintended consequences, or blowback, like ISIS.

"She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries," Saltzgaver told BuzzFeed.

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

her stated policies like for example her support of Israel no matter what

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2 page 2

second, Well, Hillary IS evil. I'd say bombing a previously stable Libya into a failed state full of despotic wannabes and jihadis, fomenting a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian government, and running arms out of Libya and to ISIS in Syria count as evil. Wouldn't you? So, let me ask again: in light of her on-the-record evilness, which she's neither renounced nor modified, why should I vote FOR Hillary? What about my future with Hillary is so awesome that I should rethink my evaluation of her?

Because, when it gets down to it, Donald is far less likely to get us into a war.

I think hillary's the person who sees the Kochs as quaint, provincial, limited, backwater - in other words, minor and ignorable - compared to the international powers they've been playing with, and on whom they've staked their future.

Trump is a chaotic unknown, but he's not beholden to the war-mongering neo-cons that the war-mongering Clinton is. This could be an existential decision. And I don't want Clinton at the helm, playing chicken with Russia, the way she did from her lowly position as Secretary of State.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=3 page 3

she supports down-ticket candidates
Except, she doesn't. Her campaign has Hoovered-up 99% of that money.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-littl
she's a democrat
Who remarkably doesn't care about 45%+ of what voting democrats think.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4 page 4

One very long article that definitively portrays Hillary the Hawk - but fails completely and without exception to explain why her bent to confrontation under every circumstance would turn out well. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-
a-hawk.html

Speaking of a corrupt party: Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

So, war with Russia is a possibility. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to change my opinion of Hillary and forgive her for Libya, Ukraine, and Syria because she's like General Leia? Mai got. Is this what passes for analysis? For thought? For reason and proportion? Is this the best reason to vote for her that Hillary's got going?

Third World War, the Key Is On “Start”

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya

We've already talked about her negatives - potential indictments, unconcern for the working and middle class and focus on big-money interests (those free trade agreements she was for before she was sort-of against; cozy big-bank relationships), famously insincere and hypocritical on the issues, running a campaign of identity politics; revolving-door wealth through the Clinton Foundation, State Department, and individually; corruptly in bed with the corrupt minions of the democratic party, a history of VERY BAD judgment on Libya, Ukraine and Syria - which she refuses to acknowledge and correct, and, my all-time favorite, neo-con war-hawk jonesing for a nuclear confrontation with Russia (probably by miscalculation, but hey, it's not like she has a history of serious miscalculations or anything! nope, if you listen to her everything's all good!).

I'm an 'anybody but Hillary' kind of voter, for reasons I've explained more than once. But I'll go through MY reasons, again.
With the smoking ruins of US Libyan policy, Ukrainian policy, and Syrian policy laid at Hillary's feet, with her bellicose statements against Russia on her website, with her 'Israel first and always' commitment, AND WITH HER REFUSAL TO ADMIT HER EFFORTS HAVE GONE BADLY AND NEED RETHINKING - I don't want her finger anywhere near the red button.
And I don't want her spoiling for a fight against anyone else who has THEIR finger on the red button.
She's pointlessly aggressive, an inveterate liar of the neo-CON stripe who has no ethics about ceaselessly misleading the country - and risking our lives, has a history of deeply flawed judgment about the US role in international dealings - and, let me say this again ...
... shows absolutely ZERO ability to admit to and learn from the things she's done that have ALL, without exception, gone completely, terribly wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5 page 5

My concerns are VERY FOCUSED on Hillary's neo-CON agenda in the international sphere. I don't care about her persona on stage, the fact that she's a woman (and what an abysmally sexist reason to vote for someone), or even that she's for all those 'free' trade agreements as long as no one's looking

Award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill, one of the world’s leading experts on the secretive CIA drone program, commented, “So many liberals poo poo the Hillary email scandal for totally partisan reasons. If it was a Republican, they would be going bananas. People claiming emails on Hillary’s private server were not classified do not understand how classification works,” Scahill added. “It’s an HRC talking point.”

“It’s not going to happen,” Ihillary indictment due to unsecured private server) he (Assange) said. “But the FBI can push for concessions from a Clinton government. Fantastic. President Hillary being blackmailed by the FBI.

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite

Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary


Now I COULD go on for the next 5 pages from that one particular thread - and remember, all of this comes from only one-half of just one thread - but I think I've made my point.


C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.





And THANKS for the opportunity to bring it up again!

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Monday, October 31, 2016 9:36 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.




We understand fine, little trumptrollistan. You're a whore for Russia, we get that. You are whole heartedly a nut for the Drumph. You haven't been coy about it. We've noticed your obvious spread thigh position and we are well aware of the ship you're sailing.

I only await to see you come back and defend your position of Hillary hate 3-4 years from now after she's been Prez and none of the horrible predictions you scream about now have happened. I don't need to bother to ask *again* if you are willing to do the same. I know you aren't. I know what a coward you are. Can't stand up to your own convictions. Because you're a troll and you don't really care if you're wrong as long as you get you nickel per word for your posts. pffffft. Loser. :p

Kik/sig have already owned up to the fact that they will bitch out. They won't come back to assess the position they are currently taking. It's not in their character to own up to how wrong they will be proven to be, after HRC is pres and there is no war with Russia, there is no Armageddon, there is no end to humanity and the American way.

FYI ppl who may have missed it: I offered a challenge to sigkik re the fictional Trump presidency vs HRC. Come back in 3-4 years and own your predictions. Sig/kik can't handle it. They won't stand and face their doomsday trauma about Hillary as opposed to mine against Drumph. I wonder why? No actually, I don't. I know exactly why, and so do the Russian trolls.

sigkik: bitches might doubt me now but ought to believe me later when reality proves me right. You won't, but I will know. I will quote this post and your reply to it. If you are courageous enough to reply, that is. Doubt you'll take a definitive stand.

Here it is again: I say if HRC is elected there will be no war with Russia and no collapse of America as we know it. Things will continue close to status quo. I say that if Drumpth is elected there will be dire consequences to the American judicial and political system.

sigkik bitches if you disagree own up now. Or be labeled...

...cowards.

See you in 2020.


*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*


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Monday, October 31, 2016 10:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You're a whore for Russia ... You are whole heartedly a nut for the Drumph. You haven't been coy about it.

Then you should have no problem finding ample quotes supporting your claims. Because without them, you're just another liar going blah dah blah dah blah ... endlessly.

GO GIRL! FETCH!




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Monday, October 31, 2016 10:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


second

SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.




Meanwhile, just to make it ABUNDANTLY clear, again, to everyone else the lie you posted that you're so desperately trying to ignore.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every 1kiki post is another demonstration of philosopher David Hume’s key fact about human nature: that we are more influenced by our feelings than by reason.
I don’t have 1kiki’s passionate hatred for Hillary based on whatever are 1kiki's emotions.


You have no clue because you're an idiot - or you CLAIM to have no clue because you're a liar. My bet is on liar, because I've been EXTREMELY clear about what I don't like about hillary and I've repeated it at least three dozen times.

Here are some quotes - enjoy.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1 page 1

Hillary's record as Sec State is replete with serious judgment errors (private server, bombing Libya), claimed lack of information (re the US running arms out of the US embassy annex in Benghazi through Turkey to ISIS - she claimed she didn't know arms were being shipped, and then that she didn't know they were going to ISIS), and support for neo-con action (Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland, who was taped selecting the US pick for the next Ukrainian PM after the coup). And she voted for the Iraq war.
Along with her vote for the US Patriot Act, and her support of so-called 'free -trade' agreements, her record is full of indications she'd be an interventionist hawk, escalate confrontations with Russia and China, use and expand spying on ordinary people, and support corporations at the expense of us, the people of this country.

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam

I agree about her hawkishness. It seems to me that she wants to continue provoking Russia, under the assumption that Russia won't respond directly militarily, especially not with nuclear weapons. She's going to presume on Putin having endless restraint, though he's already said he'll use nuclear weapons if threatened. She seems like she'll keep poking the Russian (nuclear) bear with no goal or stopping point. So, where does her confidence in her omniscience come from? Is it because Libya went s well? Or Ukraine? How did Syria turn out? Either Libya et al turned out exactly according to plan, or she's pathological.

Hillary's voting record, her warmongering record as Secy of State, her collusion with neocons, her support of prison corporations, her profitable relationship with international corporatists, her support of 'free' trade agreements (all of them) or her stated policies, for example, her support of Israel no matter what. I'm about what kind of economy we'll have, whether or not we'll be at war, and will it be with Russia, how much spying will we be subject to, and other vital questions.

The Middle East is engulfed in flames because of Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (aided by Democrats like Clinton) and unintended consequences, or blowback, like ISIS.

"She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries," Saltzgaver told BuzzFeed.

her stated policies like for example her support of Israel no matter what

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2 page 2

second, Well, Hillary IS evil. I'd say bombing a previously stable Libya into a failed state full of despotic wannabes and jihadis, fomenting a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian government, and running arms out of Libya and to ISIS in Syria count as evil. Wouldn't you? So, let me ask again: in light of her on-the-record evilness, which she's neither renounced nor modified, why should I vote FOR Hillary? What about my future with Hillary is so awesome that I should rethink my evaluation of her?

Because, when it gets down to it, Donald is far less likely to get us into a war.

I think hillary's the person who sees the Kochs as quaint, provincial, limited, backwater - in other words, minor and ignorable - compared to the international powers they've been playing with, and on whom they've staked their future.

Trump is a chaotic unknown, but he's not beholden to the war-mongering neo-cons that the war-mongering Clinton is. This could be an existential decision. And I don't want Clinton at the helm, playing chicken with Russia, the way she did from her lowly position as Secretary of State.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=3 page 3

she supports down-ticket candidates
Except, she doesn't. Her campaign has Hoovered-up 99% of that money.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-littl
she's a democrat
Who remarkably doesn't care about 45%+ of what voting democrats think.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4 page 4

One very long article that definitively portrays Hillary the Hawk - but fails completely and without exception to explain why her bent to confrontation under every circumstance would turn out well. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-
a-hawk.html

Speaking of a corrupt party: Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

So, war with Russia is a possibility. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to change my opinion of Hillary and forgive her for Libya, Ukraine, and Syria because she's like General Leia? Mai got. Is this what passes for analysis? For thought? For reason and proportion? Is this the best reason to vote for her that Hillary's got going?

Third World War, the Key Is On “Start”

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya

We've already talked about her negatives - potential indictments, unconcern for the working and middle class and focus on big-money interests (those free trade agreements she was for before she was sort-of against; cozy big-bank relationships), famously insincere and hypocritical on the issues, running a campaign of identity politics; revolving-door wealth through the Clinton Foundation, State Department, and individually; corruptly in bed with the corrupt minions of the democratic party, a history of VERY BAD judgment on Libya, Ukraine and Syria - which she refuses to acknowledge and correct, and, my all-time favorite, neo-con war-hawk jonesing for a nuclear confrontation with Russia (probably by miscalculation, but hey, it's not like she has a history of serious miscalculations or anything! nope, if you listen to her everything's all good!).

I'm an 'anybody but Hillary' kind of voter, for reasons I've explained more than once. But I'll go through MY reasons, again.
With the smoking ruins of US Libyan policy, Ukrainian policy, and Syrian policy laid at Hillary's feet, with her bellicose statements against Russia on her website, with her 'Israel first and always' commitment, AND WITH HER REFUSAL TO ADMIT HER EFFORTS HAVE GONE BADLY AND NEED RETHINKING - I don't want her finger anywhere near the red button.
And I don't want her spoiling for a fight against anyone else who has THEIR finger on the red button.
She's pointlessly aggressive, an inveterate liar of the neo-CON stripe who has no ethics about ceaselessly misleading the country - and risking our lives, has a history of deeply flawed judgment about the US role in international dealings - and, let me say this again ...
... shows absolutely ZERO ability to admit to and learn from the things she's done that have ALL, without exception, gone completely, terribly wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5 page 5

My concerns are VERY FOCUSED on Hillary's neo-CON agenda in the international sphere. I don't care about her persona on stage, the fact that she's a woman (and what an abysmally sexist reason to vote for someone), or even that she's for all those 'free' trade agreements as long as no one's looking

Award-winning journalist Jeremy Scahill, one of the world’s leading experts on the secretive CIA drone program, commented, “So many liberals poo poo the Hillary email scandal for totally partisan reasons. If it was a Republican, they would be going bananas. People claiming emails on Hillary’s private server were not classified do not understand how classification works,” Scahill added. “It’s an HRC talking point.”

“It’s not going to happen,” Ihillary indictment due to unsecured private server) he (Assange) said. “But the FBI can push for concessions from a Clinton government. Fantastic. President Hillary being blackmailed by the FBI.

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite

Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary


Now I COULD go on for the next 5 pages from that one particular thread - and remember, all of this comes from only one-half of just one thread - but I think I've made my point.


C'mon second, please PLEASE double down on your lie - that I have some vague, emotional, unexpressed, poorly defined animus against hillary that you can't quite put your finger on - only this time, for the camera! I dare you, you lying cunt.




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.





And THANKS mal, for the opportunity to bring it up again!

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Monday, October 31, 2016 10:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh btw mal, aside from you being a chronic liar - and how does that feel?, btw - I actually did respond to your challenge - twice. Once in response and once where I quoted myself to point out to you I answered it. But you must have missed it both times, or claim to have missed it both times, either because you're insane, illiterate, or a liar. I'd want to see to that if I were you. Repeatedly missing chunks of reality that you seem to be paying attention to, or claiming that you're missing them, doesn't bode well for your mental or moral health. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60745&p=1




I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 2:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.- KIKI

We understand fine, little trumptrollistan. You're a whore for Russia, we get that.

OMFG, you've gone off the deep end. I can't help but worry how you're getting on in your life, because anybody who is THAT delusional has got to have few kinks in the job and personal sphere. R U OK?

In any case ....
Quote:

Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia

For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-dona
ld-trump.html?_r=2


Quote:

Instead You are whole heartedly a nut for the Drumph.
You've got us mixed up. I'm the one for Trump, KIKI is actually just against Hollery.

Quote:

You haven't been coy about it. We've noticed your obvious spread thigh position and we are well aware of the ship you're sailing.
Isn't sailing a ship just a little difficult from that position??? Mixed metaphors are not your friend, MAL4!

Quote:

I only await to see you come back and defend your position of Hillary hate 3-4 years from now after she's been Prez and none of the horrible predictions you scream about now have happened. I don't need to bother to ask *again* if you are willing to do the same. I know you aren't. I know what a coward you are. Can't stand up to your own convictions. Because you're a troll and you don't really care if you're wrong as long as you get you nickel per word for your posts. pffffft. Loser. :p

Kik/sig have already owned up to the fact that they will bitch out. They won't come back to assess the position they are currently taking. It's not in their character to own up to how wrong they will be proven to be, after HRC is pres and there is no war with Russia, there is no Armageddon, there is no end to humanity and the American way.

FYI ppl who may have missed it: I offered a challenge to sigkik re the fictional Trump presidency vs HRC. Come back in 3-4 years and own your predictions. Sig/kik can't handle it. They won't stand and face their doomsday trauma about Hillary as opposed to mine against Drumph. I wonder why? No actually, I don't. I know exactly why, and so do the Russian trolls.

sigkik: bitches might doubt me now but ought to believe me later when reality proves me right. You won't, but I will know. I will quote this post and your reply to it. If you are courageous enough to reply, that is. Doubt you'll take a definitive stand.
Here it is again: I say if HRC is elected there will be no war with Russia and no collapse of America as we know it. Things will continue close to status quo

Well, since we're already at war with Russia and we're close to collapse already, "status quo" will take us just about to where I've predicted.
Quote:

I say that if Drumpth is elected there will be dire consequences
Such as?

Quote:

to the American judicial and political system.
sigkik bitches if you disagree own up now. Or be labeled...
...cowards.

Tsk tsk. Name calling already?

The funny thing is, I'm with KIKI on this. I seem to remember specifically addressing your post on the topic. R U sure you're OK?




Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 10:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
second . . .

1kiki, please give a separate, unique and complete response for every point mentioned below. Nothing less than your very best will satisfy the fireflyfans.net community, 1kiki:

Harry Reid wrote a letter to FBI director James Comey accusing him of withholding "explosive" information about close ties between Donald Trump and the Russian government. Reid sparked a firestorm of activity:

CNBC reports that Comey opposed having the FBI's name on a report accusing Russia of interfering with US elections. "He believed it to be true, but was against putting it out before the election," said CNBC's source. That's odd in light of the fact that Comey released much more damaging information about Hillary Clinton a mere 11 days before the election.

David Corn reports that a "former senior intelligence officer for a Western country" says that he informed the FBI in July that the Russian regime has been cultivating Donald Trump for five years. "Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance," the former spy said in a memo. He claimed that Russian intelligence had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him"

NBC News reports that the FBI is conducting a preliminary inquiry into the "foreign business connections" of Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign manager.

Frank Foer reports on the very peculiar transmissions between a Trump computer and a computer owned by Alfa Bank—a Russian bank run by oligarchs close to Vladimir Putin. The transmissions began early this year, peaked in early August, and then abruptly ceased a few weeks ago when a New York Times reporter began inquiring about them.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/10/press-corps-goes-crazy-russia-t
oday


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:10 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You're a whore for Russia ... You are whole heartedly a nut for the Drumph. You haven't been coy about it.

Then you should have no problem finding ample quotes supporting your claims. Because without them, you're just another liar going blah dah blah dah blah ... endlessly.

GO GIRL! FETCH!




Here you go 1kiki. These are just a few of the many threads that expose you over and over again to be trolling on behalf of Russia.


Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria
Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin Putin Putin Putin Putin
Syria and Ukraine: point to point comparison
A sensible discussion about Russia's threat to the USA
Putin sending Peace Envoy to Ukraine
Russia suspended from 2016 Olympics?


____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:17 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: Well, since we're already at war with Russia and we're close to collapse already, "status quo" will take us just about to where I've predicted.



Wow - we're at war with Russia! If that's true then we better have someone qualified as our next president. What would be best: having a former First Lady and current Secretary of State as our president or a groping, racist real estate agent?



SIG jumps to her fictional future so she can proclaim herself as right. Very telling and very disturbing indeed.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:39 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
SO EXPLAIN TO US ALL HOW YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE AGAINST hillary.




We understand fine, little trumptrollistan. You're a whore for Russia, we get that. You are whole heartedly a nut for the Drumph. You haven't been coy about it. We've noticed your obvious spread thigh position and we are well aware of the ship you're sailing.

I only await to see you come back and defend your position of Hillary hate 3-4 years from now after she's been Prez and none of the horrible predictions you scream about now have happened. I don't need to bother to ask *again* if you are willing to do the same. I know you aren't. I know what a coward you are. Can't stand up to your own convictions. Because you're a troll and you don't really care if you're wrong as long as you get you nickel per word for your posts. pffffft. Loser. :p

Kik/sig have already owned up to the fact that they will bitch out. They won't come back to assess the position they are currently taking. It's not in their character to own up to how wrong they will be proven to be, after HRC is pres and there is no war with Russia, there is no Armageddon, there is no end to humanity and the American way.

FYI ppl who may have missed it: I offered a challenge to sigkik re the fictional Trump presidency vs HRC. Come back in 3-4 years and own your predictions. Sig/kik can't handle it. They won't stand and face their doomsday trauma about Hillary as opposed to mine against Drumph. I wonder why? No actually, I don't. I know exactly why, and so do the Russian trolls.

sigkik: bitches might doubt me now but ought to believe me later when reality proves me right. You won't, but I will know. I will quote this post and your reply to it. If you are courageous enough to reply, that is. Doubt you'll take a definitive stand.

Here it is again: I say if HRC is elected there will be no war with Russia and no collapse of America as we know it. Things will continue close to status quo. I say that if Drumpth is elected there will be dire consequences to the American judicial and political system.

sigkik bitches if you disagree own up now. Or be labeled...

...cowards.

See you in 2020.



You're correct about SIG and 1kiki being cowards. There is thread after thread here abandoned by them. They run once the posts exposing them as dumb liars and trolls start to accumulate. This is especially true when reported facts become to much for them to deny ( Russia invades Ukraine ). Although at times they still prod on. Like 1kiki and the Russian doping scandal. That was a hoot. Or Syria as they refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing by Russia and instead post more propaganda. Many times they don't even change the topic. They just start a new thread so they can try again to troll more successfully.

It's also funny how you mentioned earlier about sock puppets and we now have posters who haven't been here for years popping up to support them.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Tuesday, November 1, 2016 1:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You're correct about SIG and 1kiki being cowards...
Who have already responded to MAL4's demand.

I might respond once, or maybe even a couple-dozen times on the same topic, but I'm not going to respond 200 times. AFA "abandoning" threads .... dood, at some point, there is no reason the keep making the same point over and over.

1) Yes, Russia helped the Donbas. No, it was not an "invasion". There are many forms of conflict - proxy war, cyberwar, information war, hybrid war - trying to jam the definition of "invasion" on the Ukraine is stupid and pointless. If anything, the Ukraine represents a "proxy war" on BOTH sides.

2) Russia's and Syria's warcrimes in Syria ... KPO hunts for every little nugget of propaganda, spin, and information that he can find, like a pig hunting for truffles in the forest ... and winnows out every piece of contradictory information to concoct a tale of woe. It's too bad that he doesn't go the the sources themselves ... the White Helmets and "rebels" who freely show off their APCs and mortars and TOW missiles, who freely brag about blocking humanitarian aid coming in, and freely brag about keeping people from using humanitarian corridors going out, quite often with a black flag in the background somewhere, or someone raising their index finger to heaven (the ISIL sign), shouting "Allahu Ahkbar" repeatedly ... to develop a more honest picture of the real on-the-ground situation of who is doing what.

3) I accept the decision of the MH17 investigation, unless further evidence comes out to the contrary.

So, will this be the end of your constant, baseless, pointless accusations? Or are you just fucking loonie-tunes?



Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100


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