REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Countdown Clock to Trumps impeachment " STARTS"

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Friday, June 19, 2020 06:16
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PAGE 69 of 75

Tuesday, December 17, 2019 9:57 AM

THG


OK, lev Parnas pays Rudy and Rudy spreads Putins' propaganda. Keep your heads in the game people. Trump is still playing with Russia. He is working with them to manipulate our 2020 elections.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:06 AM

THG


Trump is being impeached tomorrow.

tick tock

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:16 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Trump never admits he is guilty.



There is another side to that Trump wooden nickel: always say whatever you are doing is the most incredible thing to ever happen, better than anything any other human has ever done. Dimwits will believe it because simple people WANT to believe. Confrontation, learning is too hard - easier to accept and follow.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:20 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Trump is being impeached tomorrow.
tick tock



I don't even care how it turns out, just the fact that the DEMs are doing the Right thing is like finding $20 in a pants pocket. It means we have re-established some fighting cred amongst the rest of the world, Democracy is not dead, and Truth has a better chance.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:25 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
OK, lev Parnas pays Rudy and Rudy spreads Putins' propaganda. Keep your heads in the game people. Trump is still playing with Russia. He is working with them to manipulate our 2020 elections.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

Trump won't be removed by the Senate because there is no possibility that the male GOP Senators will do anything about Trump's dishonesty and general immorality, or even a very specific and detailed case of cheating with a foreign government while campaigning to be reelected: "The definition of masculinity seems to be contracting. When asked what traits society values most in boys, only 2 percent of male survey respondents said honesty and morality."

"The Miseducation of the American Boy"
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/the-miseducation-of-the-a
merican-boy/603046
/
One of Luke’s friends, who was labeled “the faggot frosh” in ninth grade, is not so philosophical. “He treats everything as a test of his masculinity,” Luke told me. “Like, once when I was wearing red pants, I heard him say to other people, ‘He looks like such a faggot.’ I didn’t care, and maybe in that situation no one was really harmed, but when you apply that attitude to whole populations, you end up with Donald Trump as president.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:37 AM

THG


Most expect Trump to get fair trial in Senate, new poll shows

Seven in 10 Americans in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll say President Donald Trump should allow his top aides to testify in a Senate trial on the impeachment charges against him.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/most-expect-trump-to-get-fair-
trial-in-senate-new-poll-shows/ar-BBY4SNV?ocid=spartandhp


What will they believe when they see a coverup? Then, what will they want done about it; and will it change their 2020 vote?

tick tock

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:50 AM

THG


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.



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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 12:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So instead of SECOND's, THUGR's, and CCs insane confabulations about ... everything ... how about some real news, with real evidence, from a real investigative reporter?

Quote:

Latvian government says it flagged ‘suspicious’ Hunter Biden payments in 2016
John Solomon
December 17, 2019

As the U.S. presidential race began roaring to life in 2016, authorities in the former Soviet republic of Latvia flagged a series of “ suspicious” financial transactions to Hunter Biden and other colleagues at a Ukrainian natural gas company and sought Kiev’s help investigating, according to documents and interviews.

The Feb. 18, 2016 alert to Ukraine came from the Latvian prosecutorial agency responsible for investigating money laundering, and it specifically questioned whether Vice President Joe Biden’s younger son and three other officials at Burisma Holdings were the potential beneficiaries of suspect funds.

“The Office for Prevention of Laundering of Proceeds Derived from Criminal Activity … is currently investigating suspicious activity of Burisma Holdings Limited,” the Latvian agency also known as the FIU wrote Ukraine’s financial authorities.

The memo was released to me by the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office and confirmed by the Latvian embassy to the United States.

Latvian authorities said they did not get any incriminating information back from Ukraine to warrant further investigation and did not take additional action in 2016.

But the memo adds to the mounting evidence that there was ongoing investigative activity surrounding Burisma Holdings and Hunter Biden’s compensation as a board member in the weeks just before Joe Biden forced the firing of the Ukraine prosecutor overseeing the Burisma investigation in spring 2016.

The Latvian law enforcement memo identified a series of loan payments totaling about $16.6 million that were routed from companies in Beliz and the United Kingdom

The UK's offshore banks are a hub of money-laundering
Quote:

to Burisma through Ukraine’s PrivatBank between 2012 and 2015.

The flagged funds were “partially transferred” to Hunter Biden, a board member at Burisma since May 2014, and three other officials working for the Ukrainian natural gas company, the Latvian memo said.

The letter asked Ukrainian officials for any evidence about whether the funds were involved in corruption and whether Ukrainian officials were investigating Burisma and the recipients of the money.

“On the grounds of possible legalization of proceeds derived from criminal activity and corruption, please grant us permission to share the information included in the reply to this request with Latvian law enforcement entities for intelligence purposes only,” the letter said.

Arturs Saburovs, the Third Secretary at the Latvian embassy in Washington, confirmed his country flagged the transactions in February 2016 after seeing public reports that Burisma was under investigation in Ukraine and that Hunter Biden served on the company’s board. He said Latvia did not receive any evidence back from Ukraine to further its investigation.

... When I first divulged Joe Biden’s role in Shokin’s firing last year, Democrats and their allies in the media and Ukrainian civil society organizations claimed it was no big deal because the Burisma investigation in Ukraine was dormant at the time Biden took action.

But since that time, significant evidence has emerged that the investigation was, in fact, active and that Burisma itself had concerns about the corruption allegations swirling around it.

For instance, Ukrainian prosecutors confirmed in December 2015 they transferred their investigative files to detectives at the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine to pursue several leads.

On Feb. 2, 2016, the Ukraine prosecutor general’s office secured a court order to re-seize the assets of Burisma Holdings founder Mykola Zlochevsky. Officers went to the home, placed seizure notices and took items from the home that included a luxury car, officials said.

About two weeks later, the Latvian suspicious financial transactions memo was transmitted to Ukrainian authorities.

And then in late February, according to U.S. documents recently released under the Freedom of Information Act, Burisma’s American representatives pressed the U.S. State Department to try to help end the corruption allegations against the company. You can read those documents here.

By mid-March 2016, State’s top official for Ukraine policy publicly called for Shokin’s ouster, and less than three weeks later Joe Biden managed to force Ukraine’s president to fire Shokin by threatening to withhold $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees.

Almost immediately, Burisma’s American legal team was in Ukraine seeking to meet with Shokin’s replacement at the Ukraine prosecutor general’s office.

A summary of an April 6, 2016 meeting between Burisma representatives and Ukraine prosecutors – released by the Prosecutor General’s Office – states “false information” was used to justify Shokin’s firing.

Whatever the case, the corruption investigations were dropped in late 2016 and early 2017, and Burisma paid a penalty for tax issues.

But early in 2019, NABU and the Ukraine prosecutor general’s office announced they were reopening the investigation into Burisma, specifically to revisit the allegations about money laundering, according to the notice of suspicion released by prosecutors in that country. You can read NABU’s request to reopen the probe here.

That probe is ongoing and recently was expanded to look at other issues. And the entire Burisma episode is now part of the larger impeachment proceedings playing out in America against President Donald Trump.



FULL ARTICLE AT https://johnsolomonreports.com/latvian-government-says-it-flagged-susp
icious-hunter-biden-payments-in-2016
/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 12:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RUDY GIULIANI ACCUSES YOVANOVITCH OF CORRUPTION, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE

Quote:


Rudy Giuliani: Yovanovitch was part of cover up, she had to be ousted
By
Staff Writer -
December 17, 2019

“Trump was simply asking new Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — in a July phone call — to investigate crimes at the “highest levels” of both Kiev and Washington,” Rudy Giuliani, a personal attorney for President Trump, told Laura Ingraham on “The Ingraham Angle.”

“So, he is being impeached for doing the right thing as president of the United States,” he said.

Giuliani told Laura Ingraham on “The Ingraham Angle” that he helped forced out Yovanovitch because she was corrupt and obstructing the investigation into Ukraine and the Bidens.

Dem’s impeachment for innocent conduct is intended to obstruct the below investigations of Obama-era corruption:

– Billions of laundered $
– Billions, mostly US $, widely misused
– Extortion
– Bribery
– DNC collusion w/ Ukraine to destroy candidate Trump

Much more to come.

— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 15, 2019

He told Ingraham that he needed her out of the way because she was corrupt. Giuliani said he was not the first person to go to the president with concerns about the diplomat.

In more tweets Tuesday, Giuliani elaborated: “Yovanovitch needed to be removed for many reasons most critical she was denying visas to Ukrainians who wanted to come to US and explain Dem corruption in Ukraine. She was OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE and that’s not the only thing she was doing. She at minimum enabled Ukrainian collusion.”

— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 17, 2019





MORE AT https://saraacarter.com/rudy-giuliani-yovanovitch-was-part-of-cover-up
-she-had-to-be-ousted
/

Leave it to M$NBC to air an out-of-context 2-second clip, and THUGR to post it.

Now, I know all of the forthcoming evidence will have many of you plugging your ears and chanting Lalala I can't hear you but if you pay attention TO REALITY you'll see that the Dems are at least as corrupt as Republicans, and in the case of Ukraine probably more so.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In a long conversation with me this past November, Giuliani largely confirmed Lutsenko’s account of their relationship. He, too, saw Yovanovitch as an obstacle, hindering his attempt to dig up dirt against his client’s rival in advance of the 2020 election. “I believed that I needed Yovanovitch out of the way,” he said. “She was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody.” Giuliani compiled a dossier on the Bidens and Yovanovitch, which he sent to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and which was shared with the F.B.I. and with me. John Solomon, a journalist, had interviewed Lutsenko for the Washington-based publication The Hill. Giuliani promoted the project. “I said, ‘John, let’s make this as prominent as possible,’ ” Giuliani told me. “ ‘I’ll go on TV. You go on TV. You do columns.’ ”

More about how the efforts of Yuriy Lutsenko and Rudy Giuliani to smear Joe Biden led to a Presidential crisis at
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/23/the-ukrainian-prosecutor-behind-
trumps-impeachment


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:11 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You already fired all of your Republican workers. Nobody's fault but your own that all you're left with are the lazy Democrats that can't be bothered to vote or come into work without being so hung over that you can see it in their eyes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not fire them all. I persecuted the ones who were stealing fuel, stealing power tools, and embezzling. Firing them would have been far cheaper, but instead I hired lawyers and P.I.s to make a solid case for the D.A. The County does not have the resources or time to investigate and get felony convictions, but I do. Then the crooked Trump lovers are left to plead guilty or go to court and get a long prison sentence for lying about their innocence. I know Trump would lie and declare himself innocent, but he can stall a court for many years with his lawyers, until the prosecution gives up the criminal case and accepts a few million dollars in restitution from Trump. Trump never admits he is guilty.

Legal affairs of Donald Trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Hey man. Don't bother explaining your lies to me.

I can only go by the lies that you said yesterday when commenting on how dumb you are and how you constantly lie and/or contradict yourself.



Because, YES... just like you said "ALL Republicans" vote in EVERY election in Texas, you also told us that you fired ALL of your Republican workers at the company you made up that everyone knows doesn't exist.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
OK, lev Parnas pays Rudy and Rudy spreads Putins' propaganda. Keep your heads in the game people. Trump is still playing with Russia. He is working with them to manipulate our 2020 elections.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

Trump won't be removed by the Senate because there is no possibility that the male GOP Senators will do anything about Trump's dishonesty and general immorality, or even a very specific and detailed case of cheating with a foreign government while campaigning to be reelected: "The definition of masculinity seems to be contracting. When asked what traits society values most in boys, only 2 percent of male survey respondents said honesty and morality."

"The Miseducation of the American Boy"
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/the-miseducation-of-the-a
merican-boy/603046
/
One of Luke’s friends, who was labeled “the faggot frosh” in ninth grade, is not so philosophical. “He treats everything as a test of his masculinity,” Luke told me. “Like, once when I was wearing red pants, I heard him say to other people, ‘He looks like such a faggot.’ I didn’t care, and maybe in that situation no one was really harmed, but when you apply that attitude to whole populations, you end up with Donald Trump as president.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




But... you just said yesterday that Salon says there's a very good chance that 20 Senators will defect.

Now the Atlantic is going to preemptively blame it on toxic masculinity when salon is proven wrong, huh?

That's smart. It clearly worked out well for Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator Dark Fate, Charlie's Angels, Black Christmas, Gillete's 8 billion dollar write down, Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016, yada, yada, yada...

These idiot NPCs are so good at doubling down I bet their programming would make them experts at 2048 without ever having played a single game of it.

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:47 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


I see that in the Senate, Mitch McConnell won't allow the prosecution to call witnesses during impeachment. As far as Mitch is concerned, the Senate does not need to hear from any witnesses accusing Trump. But Mitch is interested in hearing witnesses against the Bidens, if that is what Trump wants. Funny thing, V.P. Biden is not being impeached. I wonder what is going on inside Mitch's brain?

"McConnell rejects Democrats’ calls for witnesses"
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mcconnell-rejects-democrats-call-for-n
ew-witnesses-in-senate-impeachment-trial/2019/12/17/dbdc326a-20e9-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIX: You already fired all of your Republican workers. Nobody's fault but your own that all you're left with are the lazy Democrats that can't be bothered to vote or come into work without being so hung over that you can see it in their eyes.

SECOND: I did not fire them all. I persecuted ...

Well, SECOND accidentally tells the truth!

To PERSECUTE
Quote:

: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persecute

Yep, I'm sure that SECOND persecutes people, and now we have it from the horse's ass itself.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

More about how the efforts of Yuriy Lutsenko and Rudy Giuliani to smear Joe Biden led to a Presidential crisis...
Is it a "smear" if it's the truth?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I see that in the Senate, Mitch McConnell won't allow the prosecution to call witnesses during impeachment. As far as Mitch is concerned, the Senate does not need to hear from any witnesses accusing Trump. But Mitch is interested in hearing witnesses against the Bidens, if that is what Trump wants. Funny thing, V.P. Biden is not being impeached. I wonder what is going on inside Mitch's brain?

"McConnell rejects Democrats’ calls for witnesses"
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mcconnell-rejects-democrats-call-for-n
ew-witnesses-in-senate-impeachment-trial/2019/12/17/dbdc326a-20e9-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Didn't we already hear from all of the Democrat witnesses? I mean, that's what this circus was all about in the first place, wasn't it?


There's no sense in making them all perjure themselves twice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIX: You already fired all of your Republican workers. Nobody's fault but your own that all you're left with are the lazy Democrats that can't be bothered to vote or come into work without being so hung over that you can see it in their eyes.

SECOND: I did not fire them all. I persecuted ...

Well, SECOND accidentally tells the truth!

To PERSECUTE
Quote:

: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persecute

Yep, I'm sure that SECOND persecutes people, and now we have it from the horse's ass itself.

Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet. As for Trump, I want to keep him around for entertainment and the tax cuts for the wealthy. He is actually helpful to me.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:35 PM

THG


Trump is being impeached tomorrow. Fact

tick tock

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIX: You already fired all of your Republican workers. Nobody's fault but your own that all you're left with are the lazy Democrats that can't be bothered to vote or come into work without being so hung over that you can see it in their eyes.

SECOND: I did not fire them all. I persecuted ...

Well, SECOND accidentally tells the truth!

To PERSECUTE
Quote:

: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persecute

Yep, I'm sure that SECOND persecutes people, and now we have it from the horse's ass itself.

Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet. As for Trump, I want to keep him around for entertainment and the tax cuts for the wealthy. He is actually helpful to me.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Didn't we already hear from all of the Democrat witnesses? I mean, that's what this circus was all about in the first place, wasn't it?


There's no sense in making them all perjure themselves twice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

ACTUALLY - we already heard from them twice. Once was during the closed-door 'hearings' where transcripts of their testimony were going to be released; the second time was during public hearings broadcast on CNN (and elsewhere). That's the testimony I tediously watched/ listened to, that made me realize there was nothing beyond second / third / nth hand gossip and people's opinions.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I certainly have been wrong in my predictions before, but I can't imagine anything other than the House democrats voting for impeachment, and the Senate republicans voting to acquit Trump. And if the fact of the parties attached to each step doesn't tell you how POLITICAL this supposed effort at 'justice' is, nothing will.

I would prefer an extended Senate trial myself. I want to see republicans calling witnesses showing that Burisma and Hunter Biden were legitimate targets of corruption investigations (which they were and are).

But I think it'll be quick.

Either way, an acquittal will have a POLITICAL cost for democrats.

I know there's been speculation about what ELSE the deep state may try to do to get rid of Trump. So I'd like to bring up 'crashing the economy' again, which I read some time ago.

I still think the democrats screwed up with Clinton's impeachment. They needed to make a literal federal case out of what level of 'high crimes and misdemeanors' needed to be reached before something became an IMPEACHABLE offense. Now that the low-bar precedent has been set with Clinton, the floodgates are open for frivolous impeachments.

Finally, my opinion is that the players backing Trump are the original "Deep State' - the military industrial complex MIC. And the players trying to eliminate him are the national and foreign spook agencies - the FBI, CIA, NSA (and the other 14 US 'intelligence' agencies); and international spook agencies like MI6 and the other agencies of the 'Five Eyes'.

Over the years, especially with Obama, the US military proper has been downsized and sidestepped, while the intelligence agencies have had money and resources poured into them both for internal (Utah data center) and external (eg 'The Rat Line') operations. Obama was about doing things on the cheap and on the down-low, and avoiding public opinion. I'm sure that pinched the MIC greatly.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I see that in the Senate, Mitch McConnell won't allow the prosecution to call witnesses during impeachment. As far as Mitch is concerned, the Senate does not need to hear from any witnesses accusing Trump. But Mitch is interested in hearing witnesses against the Bidens, if that is what Trump wants. Funny thing, V.P. Biden is not being impeached. I wonder what is going on inside Mitch's brain?

"McConnell rejects Democrats’ calls for witnesses"
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mcconnell-rejects-democrats-call-for-n
ew-witnesses-in-senate-impeachment-trial/2019/12/17/dbdc326a-20e9-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Didn't we already hear from all of the Democrat witnesses? I mean, that's what this circus was all about in the first place, wasn't it?


There's no sense in making them all perjure themselves twice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Giuliani, Mulvaney, Bolton, and Pompeo didn't testify to the House committee. Mitch McConnell does not want them to testify during the Senate trial.

If these witnesses could exonerate Trump, why isn’t Trump allowing them to testify?
Trump’s defenders suggest that they could exculpate the president — but the evidence suggests otherwise.

What remains of Trump’s defense is only a question of his intent in doing the things that nobody disputes he did. A handful of witnesses (Giuliani, Mulvaney, Bolton, and Pompeo) are in a position to speak directly to Trump’s intent — all of whom have refused to testify to the House Committee. All of them Mitch McConnell refuses to subpoena during the Senate trial.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/trumps-defense-cant-save-him
/603277
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yup. Democrats in 2019 LOVE Bolton.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


repeated since I significantly edited it

I certainly have been wrong in my predictions before, but I can't imagine anything other than the House democrats voting for impeachment, and the Senate republicans voting to acquit Trump. So nothing will come of all this.

But if the fact of the parties attached to each step doesn't tell you how POLITICAL this supposed effort at 'justice' is, nothing will.

I would prefer an extended Senate trial myself. I want to see republicans calling witnesses showing that Burisma and Hunter Biden were legitimate targets of corruption investigations (which they were and are).

But I think it'll be quick.

Either way, an acquittal will have a POLITICAL cost for democrats.

I know there's been speculation about what ELSE the deep state may try to do to get rid of Trump. So I'd like to bring up 'crashing the economy' again, which I read some time ago.

I still think the democrats screwed up with Clinton's impeachment. They needed to make a literal federal case out of what level of 'high crimes and misdemeanors' needed to be reached before something became an IMPEACHABLE offense. Now that the low-bar precedent has been set with Clinton, the floodgates are open for frivolous, or ahem ! 'Trumped-up', impeachments.

Finally, my opinion is that the players backing Trump are the original "Deep State' - the military industrial complex MIC. And the players trying to eliminate him are the national and foreign spook agencies - the FBI, CIA, NSA (and the other 14 US 'intelligence' agencies); and international spook agencies like MI6 and the other agencies of the 'Five Eyes'.

Over the years, especially with Obama, the US military proper has been downsized and sidestepped, while the intelligence agencies have had money and resources poured into them both for internal (Utah data center) and external (eg 'The Rat Line') operations. Obama was about doing things on the cheap and on the down-low, and avoiding public opinion, and secretive operations fit his MO perfectly. I'm sure that pinched the MIC greatly. The MIC and the spooks could be considered the 'nationalist' and 'internationalist' branches of the deep state respectively. And Trump is a nationalist, and putting significant resources into the MIC proper.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup. Democrats in 2019 LOVE Bolton.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Do you mean in the same sense as they love Giuliani, Mulvaney, and Pompeo? All 4 could directly testify about Trump's intent in Ukrainegate because all 4 talked to Trump before, during and after Trump's infamous phone calls and his orders withholding aid to Ukraine. But none of the four have yet testified under oath. Others have lied to Congress and they go to jail. Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, is in jail for 3 years, for one example. The real possibility of jail might motivate these four witnesses to not lie, since their lies might eventually be discovered just as in the case of Michael Cohen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)#Conviction_for_pe
rjury_in_congressional_testimony


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup. Democrats in 2019 LOVE Bolton.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Do you mean in the same sense as they love Giuliani, Mulvaney, and Pompeo?



Nope I mean in the same way they love tech censorship, James Comey, the FBI, the CIA, George W Bush, Robert Muller and John McCain's ghost.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup. Democrats in 2019 LOVE Bolton.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Do you mean in the same sense as they love Giuliani, Mulvaney, and Pompeo?



Nope I mean in the same way they love tech censorship, James Comey, the FBI, the CIA, George W Bush, Robert Muller and John McCain's ghost.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Bolton, Giuliani, Mulvaney, and Pompeo will not be subpoenaed by Mitch McConnell in the Senate trial of Trump, if the trial happens, because Mitch does not know for sure if those 4 will lie to protect Trump or tell the truth to protect themselves from eventual perjury charges. Mitch knows it is much better for Trump if those 4 are not allowed to testify at all about Trump's intention to withhold aid to Ukraine until he gets reelection help from Ukraine's President.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 4:11 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Didn't we already hear from all of the Democrat witnesses? I mean, that's what this circus was all about in the first place, wasn't it?


There's no sense in making them all perjure themselves twice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

ACTUALLY - we already heard from them twice. Once was during the closed-door 'hearings' where transcripts of their testimony were going to be released; the second time was during public hearings broadcast on CNN (and elsewhere). That's the testimony I tediously watched/ listened to, that made me realize there was nothing beyond second / third / nth hand gossip and people's opinions.



Trump angrily objects to impeachment, calls it ‘perversion’

In a fiery letter Tuesday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on the eve of his expected impeachment, Trump maintained that he did nothing wrong in seeking foreign investigation of political rivals.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-angrily-objects-to-impea
chment-calls-it-perversion/ar-BBY5MzF?ocid=spartandhp


It's hard to imagine any as brainless as the two of you. Then again, there's sig rappy and jsf.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 4:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I still think the democrats screwed up with Clinton's impeachment. They needed to make a literal federal case out of what level of 'high crimes and misdemeanors' needed to be reached before something became an IMPEACHABLE offense. Now that the low-bar precedent has been set with Clinton, the floodgates are open for frivolous, or ahem ! 'Trumped-up', impeachments.

1. Jessica Levinson, law professor, Loyola Law School

Let’s be clear. Conduct that gives rise to an impeachable offense need not be a violation of a federal criminal statute. Impeachable offenses are subject to a different standard. Impeachable offenses are “pubic offenses,” they include more amorphous actions like abuse of one’s office and power.

But impeachable offenses can be based on criminal behavior. There is no doubt that President Trump’s actions are worthy of impeachment. Now the question is whether Trump’s actions satisfy the elements of the federal bribery statute. I believe the better answer is that President Trump did commit bribery, but these are difficult cases to prove.

Paraphrasing a bit, the statute would require that President Trump “corruptly” asked for or obtained a thing of value for him personally (like dirt on a political opponent), that he asked for that in exchange for performing an official act (like releasing military aid). The most difficult thing to prove will likely be that President Trump acted corruptly.

However, in this case it appears that he did, it must be shown that he had the specific intent to get the information on Vice President Biden and his family (the thing of value) in exchange for the official act. This is the quid pro quo we hear so much about.

2. Jed Shugerman, law professor, Fordham University

The House Judiciary presents a solid case that Trump’s conduct constituted bribery. I would add two observations: Many people were puzzled by why the first article of impeachment was titled “Abuse of Power,” and not “Bribery,” did not cite the federal bribery statute, and did not allege bribery explicitly, even as the article deliberately laid out each element of federal bribery.

And yet this committee report spends six pages (p. 120-126)
https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20191216/CRPT-116hrpt346.pdf
going step by step through the bribery statute: an exchange of a “thing of value” for “an official act” for “corrupt” purposes. As the “thing of value,” The report wisely highlights that Trump was seeking merely “announcement” of an investigation into the Bidens, because it shows Trump was not sincerely interested in a real investigation, and an announcement would usually be counterproductive for starting a background investigation under the radar, to prevent tipping off witnesses to start coordinating their stories.

A mere announcement benefited Trump’s campaign, and that’s one piece of evidence among many of “corrupt” intent. And the report offers a thorough explanation for why the arms and an official White House visit are official acts. The report rebuts the Trump defenders’ argument that an official White House visit is not an “official act” under Supreme Court precedent.

So why not spell out this felony in the article of impeachment? The House Judiciary Committee was making a crucial point now and as a clear precedent for future federal officials: high crimes and misdemeanors do not require a statutory felony. They are more fundamentally about the officer’s abuse of power. This argument notably can cut the other way. If a president cheated on his or her taxes many years before taking office, that would be a felony but probably not a “high crime or misdemeanor” in these terms of “abuse of power.” He or she may have used his office to cover up these crimes, but that abuse would be the impeachment trigger, not the past crime.

The report quotes the conclusion from our historical study (with Andrew Kent and Ethan Leib) of “faithful execution”: The Constitution’s “faithful” language imposes a duty on Presidents “to exercise their power only when it is motivated in the public interest rather than in their private self-interest.” There are many ways for presidents to self-deal and betray the public interest without committing a felony. The Judiciary Committee wisely made this point in the articles and in its reports, while also bolstering its case with a thorough explanation of several felonies including bribery, too.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:21 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
There is another side to that Trump wooden nickel: always say whatever you are doing is the most incredible thing to ever happen, better than anything any other human has ever done. Dimwits will believe it because simple people WANT to believe. Confrontation, learning is too hard - easier to accept and follow.



Worthy uv a reprint!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 5:28 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So instead of SECOND's, THUGR's, and CCs insane confabulations about ... everything ... how about some real news, with real evidence, from a real investigative reporter?



And the punch line iz:

Quote:

John Solomon


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Great joke, Siggy!

( for anybody hoo duznt get it, Solomon iz a propagandist and conspirasy theorist. Its wut wannabe novelists do theze dayz to earn a living )

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So instead of SECOND's, THUGR's, and CCs insane confabulations about ... everything ... how about some real news, with real evidence, from a real investigative reporter?



And the punch line iz:

Quote:

John Solomon


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Great joke, Siggy!

( for anybody hoo duznt get it, Solomon iz a propagandist and conspirasy theorist. Its wut wannabe novelists do theze dayz to earn a living )

HAHAHA! The joke's on you, JO! Solomon has evidence ... documents, memos, visitor logs ... unlike Rachel Madcow, who spent three years hyperventilating about nothing.

Jeezus. How about checking into reality on this?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:26 PM

THG


I saw no evidence in sigs post concerning John Soloman Jo; none whatsoever. No instead, what I saw was another useless conspiracy theory.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:57 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HAHAHA! The joke's on you, JO! Solomon has evidence ... documents, memos, visitor logs ... unlike Rachel Madcow, who spent three years hyperventilating about nothing.

Jeezus. How about checking into reality on this?

Checking into your "reality", Signym: John Solomon's new “scoop” about Ukraine and Hunter Biden debunks itself. Multiple impeachment witnesses called out Solomon’s work for being full of falsehoods.
www.mediamatters.org/trump-impeachment-inquiry/john-solomons-new-scoop
-about-ukraine-and-hunter-biden-debunks-itself


Also Trump sent Pelosi a six-page rant on impeachment full of lies. National media outlets repeated some of those lies.
www.mediamatters.org/trump-impeachment-inquiry/trump-sent-pelosi-six-p
age-rant-impeachment-full-lies-national-media


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet.
You know better than that SECOND. Statute of limitations clock reset.

tic tock

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


SIGNY: HAHAHA! The joke's on you, JO! Solomon has evidence ... documents, memos, visitor logs ... unlike Rachel Madcow, who spent three years hyperventilating about nothing. Jeezus. How about checking into reality on this?

SECOND: Checking into your "reality", Signym: John Solomon's new “scoop” about Ukraine and Hunter Biden debunks itself. Multiple impeachment witnesses called out Solomon’s work for being full of falsehoods.

Multiple impeachment witnesses lied their asses off.

If you look at transcripts of what the witnesses saw and heard, you would have figured out that they saw and heard NOTHING. Where is the EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing? Memos? Transcripts? Visitor logs? Flight logs? Telephone records?

Hello...? Earth to SECOND?

*****

Earth to JO?
JO, you pointed to some incontrovertible facts, as did I. The earth is roundish. Gold is not the most conductive metal.

But these incontrovertible facts have been established by repeated testing and recorded, consistent results. As an intelligent person dedicated to facts, why do you then ignore the necessity of EVIDENCE on which to base your various conspiracy theories?

These people who you claim "colluded" with Russia ... which Mueller never found despite years of before-the-fact "counterintelligence" operations and years of after-the-fact digging ... they operate in the REAL WORLD. They must have established a common set of goals, or at least a satisfactory exchange. They must be communicating, somehow, to account for changing circumstances. Where is this communication happening? What could Putin possibly do to the USA that the Dems and Repubs and tech giants haven't done worse?

This Russian "hacking" ... why did the NSA not capture a single packet of the hundreds of thousands of packets supposedly sent internationally? How did our premier snoop agency fail so dismally? Why do the Wikileaks files bear evidence of having been transferred to a USB stick?

This "quid pro quo" ... where is the evidence of THAT?

Your theories should be at least bounded by reality. Limitless supposition is called paranoia.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:08 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet.
You know better than that SECOND. Statute of limitations clock reset.

tic tock

Well, Signym, not literally everyone wants to kick your ass off the planet. 1kiki doesn't, but that is one Russian troll honoring another.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet.
You know better than that SECOND. Statute of limitations clock reset.

tic tock

Well, Signym, not literally everyone wants to kick your ass off the planet. 1kiki doesn't, but that is one Russian troll honoring another.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Poor SECOND. You must be feeling awfully dismal and disgruntled to have to resort to LIBEL to say anything at all.

FLIES SHIT.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SECOND: Signym, you Trump lovers are the scumbags of the world. Everybody wants to kick your worthless Russian troll ass off the planet.

SIGNYM: You know better than that SECOND. Statute of limitations clock reset.

tic tock

SECOND: Well, Signym, not literally everyone wants to kick your ass off the planet. 1kiki doesn't, but that is one Russian troll honoring another.



Quote:

Multiple impeachment witnesses lied their asses off.

If you look at transcripts of what the witnesses saw and heard, you would have figured out that they saw and heard NOTHING. Where is the EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing? Memos? Transcripts? Visitor logs? Flight logs? Telephone records?

Hello...? Earth to SECOND?



Yep, SECOND is doing its level best to not address the problem of lack of evidence. Plus, it's a fucking liar.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Speaking of lying ...
Quote:

In Stunning Public Rebuke, FISA Court Slams FBI, Says Worried About 'Other Warrants'

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court slammed the FBI on Tuesday in a rare public statement over the agency's handling of former Trump campaign aide Carter Page's warrant application and subsequent renewals, according to the Wall Street Journal.

"In order to appreciate the seriousness of that misconduct and its implications, it is useful to understand certain procedural and substantive requirements that apply to the government's conduct of electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes," reads the statement.

The punchline: "The FBI's handling of the Carter Page applications, as portrayed in the OIG report, was antithetical to the hieghtned duty of candor" required by federal investigators, adding "The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable," wrote the court, which called the recent watchdog report from the DOJ's Inspector General "troubling."

MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fisa-court-slams-fbi-rare-public-s
tatement



Quote:

Secretive Surveillance Court Rebukes FBI Over Handling of Wiretapping of Trump Aide
Presiding judge describes recent Inspector General report as ‘troubling’
By Byron Tau and
Dustin Volz
Updated Dec. 17, 2019 6:59 pm ET

WASHINGTON—A secret surveillance court issued a rare public order on Tuesday rebuking the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its handling of applications to wiretap Carter Page, a one-time Trump campaign foreign-policy adviser whose monitoring by the government has become the subject of significant public controversy.

Judge Rosemary Collyer, the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, called the actions of the FBI “antithetical to the heightened duty of candor” owed to the court by government agents....

MORE AT

https://www.wsj.com/articles/secretive-surveillance-court-rebukes-fbi-
over-handling-of-surveillance-of-trump-aide-11576615299



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


President Sends Six-Page Letter of Randomly Capitalized Ranting to Speaker of the House

The full text from Trump is at https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/trump-pelosi-letter-americ
an-dignity-toilet.html


For me it is a pleasure knowing that the president has trouble writing down thoughts, even when the thoughts have already had repeated to him hundreds of times by both loyalists in Congress and prime-time Fox hosts.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

... in Texas the crazy people who vote for Republicans show up to vote 100% of the time in every election. ...
You, uh, EVER going to make good on your clai ... pos ... lie?

FLIES SHIT.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:52 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Multiple impeachment witnesses lied their asses off.

If you look at transcripts of what the witnesses saw and heard, you would have figured out that they saw and heard NOTHING. Where is the EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing? Memos? Transcripts? Visitor logs? Flight logs? Telephone records?

Hello...? Earth to SECOND?

Yep, SECOND is doing its level best to not address the problem of lack of evidence. Plus, it's a fucking liar.

Signym, all that lovely physical evidence you want? That evidence is exactly like Nixon's Watergate Tapes or Trump's tax returns. The President has control of the physical evidence. Only the Supreme Court can order Trump to turn over the physical evidence to Congress. In Nixon's case, when he was ordered by the Court, he did turn over evidence. In Trump's case, the Court has not yet ruled. Even when it does, maybe in a year, Trump won't obey. The Supreme Court does not have an Army to burst into the White House and take the physical evidence out of Trump's tiny little hands. On the other hand, people who have seen the evidence, but could not place the evidence in their brief cases and remove it from the White House, have testified to what the evidence is. You can read about it here:
https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20191216/CRPT-116hrpt346.pdf

And here:
https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/the_trump-ukraine_impeach
ment_inquiry_report.pdf


Interested in the Watergate Tapes? The Nixon Library has them! Thank the Supreme Court for ordering Nixon not to destroy the Tapes in order to keep evidence away from Congress. If Nixon had ignored the Court, he would have finished his second term in office. Trump knows this, too. I expect Trump to destroy physical evidence, deny he did it, claim it is only misplaced or never existed. In the case of his tax returns, Trump will continue claims that his tax lawyers won't let him release the returns until the IRS audit is complete. The audit will never be completed.
www.nixonlibrary.gov/watergate-trial-tapes

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 9:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNY: Multiple impeachment witnesses lied their asses off.

If you look at transcripts of what the witnesses saw and heard, you would have figured out that they saw and heard NOTHING. Where is the EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing? Memos? Transcripts? Visitor logs? Flight logs? Telephone records?

Hello...? Earth to SECOND?

Yep, SECOND is doing its level best to not address the problem of lack of evidence. Plus, it's a fucking liar.

SECOND: Signym, all that lovely physical evidence you want? That evidence is exactly like Nixon's Watergate Tapes or Trump's tax returns. The President has control of the physical evidence.

Not true. In the case of the so-called "collusion" the FBI, and presumbaly the CIA and NSA (because of international communications) were all available to find and develop physical evidence, and not only that, they had a warrant to do it.

Same thing with Ukraine: There were multiple people involved in Ukraine as well as Trump in the USA with documents and records of their own.

Jeez, you're stupid. I mean, you yourself said that you hired a PI to investigate people. Why do you think the spook agencies with all of the tools at their disposal couldn't find evidence?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol

I guess Second thinks that Trump has the entire IRS locked up in a vault or something.


Do you guys thing he's self aware of how stupid he is?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Not true. In the case of the so-called "collusion" the FBI, and presumbaly the CIA and NSA (because of international communications) were all available to find and develop physical evidence, and not only that, they had a warrant to do it.

Same thing with Ukraine: There were multiple people involved in Ukraine as well as Trump in the USA with documents and records of their own.

Jeez, you're stupid.

If you recall, Trump refused to send anybody, either a lawyer, or one of his own people who knew all Trump's story/history with Ukraine, or any physical evidence such as a recording that exonerates him to those House committee meetings on impeachment.

Signym, what Trump did by withholding all evidence and all testimony was stupid as hell if he was innocent, but it was very clever if he wasn't. Same is true about his tax returns. By keeping his returns a secret, clever Trump can claim anything he wants about them. He can claim to be 10-times richer than he actually is, if he felt like it made him look better. But if Trump was not really a tax cheater, and as rich as he claims, he would allow the public a view of his returns.

What Trump did was equivalent to Nixon claiming there was never such a thing as the Watergate Tapes. Nixon wasn't that dishonest. To his sorrow, Nixon actually did admit the Tapes existed. Do you really think Trump didn't record his phone conversations with Ukraine? (I know he is a crooked business man but I record my calls because I'm not a crook.)

Trump falsely claims he only has one vague transcript of the "perfect conversation" with Ukraine and everybody who testified about listening to Trump's conversation are liars. Nobody who knows where the recording is will be testifying because that is how Trump wants it. Smart move by Trump, if he wants to claim the call was innocent.

Maybe Ukraine will someday share their recordings of Trump, but only after Trump is out of power and can't retaliate against them.

"White House Ukraine Expert Sought to Correct Transcript of Trump Call"
www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/us/politics/alexander-vindman-trump-ukraine
.html

Lt. Col. Alexander S. Vindman, who heard President Trump’s July phone call with Ukraine’s president and was alarmed, testified that he tried and failed to add key details to the rough transcript.

"White House transcript of Trump's first phone call with Ukrainian President"
www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/read-white-house-transcript-trump-zele
nsky-call/index.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nobody gives a fuck dude. Let it go.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:56 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I got curious and looked up what these supposed groundbreaking documents might be. Now, SECOND's link didn't say anything about documents specifically (it was generically 'documents and testimony'), but it did reference the report and cited very specific page references https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/the_trump-ukraine_impeach
ment_inquiry_report.pdf
216-227, 229.

So I looked them up and scanned though them They are NOTHING that the 'Intelligence' Committee doesn't already have through other means, if they exist at all. For example, they seem to want WH communications with Vindman (and other people who've testified). But Vindman has already testified - twice (once in the closed door testimony and once in the public testimony) - about his communications. And there were none. He was asked under oath if he ever had any direct communication with Trump. And under oath he said no.

In fact - having watched/ listened to the testimony, NOBODY but Sondland every talked directly with Trump about Ukraine. The testimony was filled with "I came to the understanding ...", "I was told that Pence wanted ..." It was all someone's OPINION about what they thought Trump might want, and second, third, ... nth hand GOSSIP.

As for Sondland, the one time he asked Trump directly, Trump told him "I WANT NOTHING."

And yanno - it's the intelligence arm of the Deep State that wants to take Trump down. If they had the goods, they would use them.

FLIES SHIT.


It makes me curious why SECOND is posting all this ridiculous stuff. Does he think it's going to change reality?




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Wednesday, December 18, 2019 2:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm stuck between answering SECOND with I don't give shit about your confabulations and offering a more thoughtful reply like KIKI's.


I guess I'll go with "thoughtful".

SECOND, you have to do more than throw a temper tantrum about Trump is you want to make a case. You claim that Trump ... what? Strong-armed Zelenskiy? Colluded with Russia?

Like I said before, these are real people and they have to operate in real space, not in your imaginary world. Let's look at the notion that Trump strong-armed Zelenskiy.

How did he do it? Who did he talk to? Some people (Vindeman, Ciamarella supposedly) actually listened to the phone call between Trump and Zelenskiy, but NONE of them claimed that the transcript was inaccurate. And there's nothing in the transcript that's problematic.

So you're left supposing that there were OTHER phone calls or OTHER communications. Did anyone call Ukraine? Did anyone fly there? Were there visitors to the WH or other meetings elsewhere? Who attended them? What about the OTHER end of this interaction? Anyone from Zelenskiy's office complaining? (Zelenskiy himself says no pressure.)

If the House Dems really wanted to impeach Trump, it seems to me that there were a lot of places that they could have looked, but they either didn't - or they did and found nothing because nothing was brought to Congress to warrant an impeachment.

I think the Dems were hoping to "put Trump on the stand" and have him make a fool of himself, but he wisely stayed out of it because there was absolutely no upside to trying to defend yourself over nothing.


JO, SECOND, CC, THUGR, WISHY: you can drive yourself nuts (or have someone do it for you) by repeating over and over again stuff for which there is no evidence or makes no sense. But when events happen and you want to know THE TRUTH, try and evaluate this from first principles. It's like the (apparently) staged "gas attack" in Douma (official report from which 20 OPCW inspectors are now dissenting).

There is a gas attack - what kind of footprint and evidence does is leave? The munitions (cylindes, chemical weapons shells, rocket bodies and so forth), the symptoms of the victims, and the residues of the chemical weapons themselves - not only in the bodies and blood of the victims but also in their hair, clothes, and environmental samples.

Same with with "collusion" ... these people aren't communicating using telepathy. There have to be contacts, phone calls, tranmsissions, meetings, emails ...

MH17 - metal fatigue and microfractures indicating the speed of rupture (was it an explosion? High explosive? Decompression?) The damage holes, debris field, trace metal found on edges of damage holes, satellite imagery and ground-based radar, black box recording, shrapnel found on the ground, etc etc.

Start from first principles. Imagine the event and ALL of the necessary steps that would leave traces. Create a bit of a checklist BEFORE you start parsing the news. Think about what would be necessary to convince a reasonable person (you) that something happened. Remember, you can never prove a negative, so you will never find proof that NOTHING happened: You can always "what if" yourself into ever-less-likely scenarios. That way leads to paranoia so don't do that. Try to reel in your "what ifs" baxk to reality.

Don't be satisfied if only one or two (OR NONE) of the possible evidence is discussed

And be ESPECIALLY WARY wary if the accusers toss up a lot of distractions and emotional appeals OR FAKE STORIES, or if the accusations keep shifting faster than you can track them, because if that happens, you are likely dealing with a PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN.

In the Saddam had WMD hoax .. well, most pieces of "evidence" brought forward (Those aluminum tubes weren't for nuclear centrifuges because they didn't have the right specs, they were rocket bodies. That "yellowcake" contract was almost immediately exposed as a forgery) were exposed almost immediately as FAKE NEWS, and the remainder (a grainy photo of a nondescript building in the the desert, testimony from Curveball that made no sense at all) were unconvincing. The entire narrative - that we should be fearful of Saddam's "nuclear bombs" even tho he was 8000 miles away and had no means of delivering them- made no sense at all. Meanwhile, a REAL investigation (Hans Blix) was going on.

DID THAT STOP THE PROPAGANDA BLITZ?
NOT ON YOUR LIFE!
The WH simply ramped up Project Fear and put it in overdrive, blizzarding the media with an endless kalaidescope of ever-shifting allegations and images intended to stampede the American people into war.

And guess what?

Mission accomplished!

THIS SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH TRUMP BTW.


YOU DON'T HAVE TO REACH CONCLUSION RIGHT AWAY. It's OK to withhold judgment until more reliable facts are in. All that means is that you won't be stampeded by propaganda.

Just, yanno, a piece of advice.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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