REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is Trump Nuts?

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 15:02
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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 8:28 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Illegal Border Crossings Down 40 Percent in February, CBP Report Says

If you believe ILLEGAL immigration is a problem, Trump might be crazy like a fox.



Back when Trump first became president (3 hail mary's) I did make mention that it might not be all bad. This could be one of those things. Specifically: obviously his becoming president was proof there were plenty of *cough* uniformed people in the world ready to believe a compulsive liar, just as I'm sure there were immigrants without proper papers who thought about sneaking into the country but changed their minds when they heard his bombast and read about illegal roundups. "That dude is nuts!" Intimidation works. If all you want to do is keep out illegals then maybe we should have a couple public hangings?

But... it's not over yet. So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself? I keep saying and people keep ignoring, "Consumers are fickle." Once the price of a banana hits $5 people will riot. Or they will just eat more Cheetos.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 8:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
. . . obviously his becoming president was proof there were plenty of *cough* uninformed people in the world ready to believe a compulsive liar

Trump asked Monday for more time to submit evidence to the House Intelligence Committee to back up his claim that President Barack Obama had wiretapped him in the waning days of last year’s presidential campaign.

Jack Langer, the House committee’s spokesman, said the panel had agreed to extend its Monday deadline but asked that whatever evidence Trump had be submitted before the committee’s first open hearing on Russian election meddling, now set for next Monday.
www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article138313303
.html


Trump lodged the allegations against Obama in a series of tweets March 4. “Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is Mc-Carthyism!” and "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"

White House spokesman Sean Spicer declined Monday to comment on when evidence would be sent to the House committee. He said, however, that his “understanding is that they will” submit evidence.

Spicer also said that Trump had not meant wiretapping literally in his tweet. Spicer said Trump was referring to surveillance in general.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 8:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In a remarkable tweet Monday by the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff of California: “We must accept possibility that Trump does not know fact from fiction, right from wrong. That wild claims are not strategic, but worse.” Schiff is not a partisan hothead, so his discussion of the sitting president was that much more striking.
https://twitter.com/repadamschiff/status/838769380104224769

“The implications are quite extraordinary,” Schiff said in a follow-up interview with NPR. In a crisis, he asked, “how much credibility will the president have left to persuade the country of what has happened, what needs to be done? How much credibility will he have with our allies to get them to back us up? So these have real-world repercussions. ... It’s the president losing the credibility of the office.”
www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519382847/rep-adam-schiff-on-trumps-wiretapping
-claims-and-russia


There is some hope, however scant, of a presidential learning curve. But trust once squandered is not easily, if ever, regained. And without it any president will remain severely hobbled.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:14 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Anybody else here think we're missing the bigger picture?

I'm not really comfortable with all of these people going to their twitter accounts. It's one thing when celebs do it, but am I the only one that's not very comfortable with public officials paid for with our tax dollars doing it?

I very much include Trump in there too.

They're all acting like little kids.

It's a strange new world we're living in today. Buckle up... It's only going to get stranger.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:19 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
In a remarkable tweet Monday by the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff of California: “We must accept possibility that Trump does not know fact from fiction, right from wrong. That wild claims are not strategic, but worse.” Schiff is not a partisan hothead, so his discussion of the sitting president was that much more striking.
https://twitter.com/repadamschiff/status/838769380104224769

“The implications are quite extraordinary,” Schiff said in a follow-up interview with NPR. In a crisis, he asked, “how much credibility will the president have left to persuade the country of what has happened, what needs to be done? How much credibility will he have with our allies to get them to back us up? So these have real-world repercussions. ... It’s the president losing the credibility of the office.”
www.npr.org/2017/03/09/519382847/rep-adam-schiff-on-trumps-wiretapping
-claims-and-russia


There is some hope, however scant, of a presidential learning curve. But trust once squandered is not easily, if ever, regained. And without it any president will remain severely hobbled.



Schiff is great - he's saying out loud what so many of us are thinking and saying.

Same for Krugman:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/opinion/trumpcare-vs-obamacare-apoc
alypse-foretold.html


"The Congressional Budget Office report on Trumpcare is out, and it’s devastating: 14 million people losing insurance in the first year, 24 million over time, with premiums soaring for older, lower-income Americans — in many cases, the very people who went strongly for President Trump. The C.B.O. thinks it would reduce the deficit, but only marginally, around $30 billion a year in a $19 trillion economy.

The assertion is that something like this was to be expected. The C.B.O. came in even worse on coverage than most predicted, but it was obvious that the news would be terrible because that’s what the logic of the situation told us. Obamacare imposes a mandate to induce healthy people to sign up, offers means-tested subsidies to make insurance affordable and expands Medicaid to take care of people with really low incomes. Trumpcare eliminates the mandate, slashes subsidies overall and redirects them to those who don’t need them and sharply cuts Medicaid. Of course that leads to a huge drop in coverage."

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:28 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Anybody else here think we're missing the bigger picture?

I'm not really comfortable with all of these people going to their twitter accounts. It's one thing when celebs do it, but am I the only one that's not very comfortable with public officials paid for with our tax dollars doing it?

I very much include Trump in there too.

They're all acting like little kids.

It's a strange new world we're living in today. Buckle up... It's only going to get stranger.

When Obama tweeted, he made sense. https://twitter.com/potus44

When Trump tweets, just now, he does not make sense. The explanation of why Trump's tweet is crazy is longer than the tweet, but that is how it is. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/841665325682827265

Trump tweeted only "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!" (for a crazyman Trump is really articulate) and a picture of the liberal media reporting job figures. I can remember last month when Trump called down hellfire on the liberal media for its LIES, LIES, LIES! about employment. Trump claimed 42% were jobless. What changed in the real world to change what Trump is saying? Nothing, job figures are about the same as under Obama. What changed inside Trump's head? Everything, because Trump wants all the news to either praise him or else he will attack it as false. He's crazy.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:02 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I'm not talking Trump vs Obama on tweets, and I'm not even going to get sucked into that argument.

I don't think any of them should be tweeting.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 5:17 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I'm not talking Trump vs Obama on tweets, and I'm not even going to get sucked into that argument.

I don't think any of them should be tweeting.

How about a longer story where Presidents talk to each other over lunch? Obama still lives in DC, unlike all other Presidents before him. They all left town forever, but Obama is renting a mansion near Trump. If Trump wants to talk face-to-face, Obama would be there in a minute since he spends his idle days as an unemployed book writer living off the advance payment from publisher Penguin Random House.
www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-cant-stop-himself

A few days after President John F. Kennedy made a calamitous early misstep—a carelessly planned attempt to invade Cuba and overthrow Fidel Castro, in April, 1961—he invited Dwight D. Eisenhower, his predecessor as President, for lunch. They met at Camp David, in Maryland’s Catoctin Mountains, close to Eisenhower’s Gettysburg farm. Outside the complex’s Aspen Cottage, Kennedy said, “No one knows how tough this job is until after he has been in it for a few months.” Eisenhower replied, “Mr. President, if you will forgive me, I think I mentioned that to you three months ago,” to which Kennedy said, “I certainly have learned a lot since then.”

This purported exchange, repeated in many histories of the time, cannot be found in Ike’s notes on the meeting, but it sounds authentic, given what we know of each man. Kennedy was certainly rattled enough by his early failure to look for advice from the general who’d commanded the Allied Expeditionary Force. Although Kennedy hired a number of smart, if not necessarily wise, advisers, he knew what he didn’t know. He was a serious reader and student of history. Ike and J.F.K. were never particularly friendly, but they both respected the office they’d held, and Eisenhower, a traditional patriot, simply wanted Kennedy to succeed. At Camp David, he offered some enduring Ike-like advice: after urging Kennedy to support, “at least morally and politically,” policies to keep Communist influence out of the Western Hemisphere, he warned, according to his notes, that “the American people would never approve direct military intervention, by their own forces, except under provocations against us so clear and so serious that everybody would understand the need for the move.”

That idea of Presidential understanding and coöperation, and of the high stakes they involve—the unexpressed faith that America’s leaders, past and present, must put the nation’s welfare first—is among the serious casualties of the new Presidency of the former reality-TV star and real-estate brander Donald J. Trump. His burst of tweets on March 4th about his predecessor, Barack Obama—sent between 6:35 and 7:02 a.m. E.S.T., and arriving like an early-morning gust of foul wind—is unforgettable for the glimpse it gave of the disturbances within Trump’s mind.

Continues at www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-cant-stop-himself

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

SECOND
If you believe ILLEGAL immigration is a problem, Trump might be crazy like a fox.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
If illegal aliens will be deported, Trump needs a plan that makes sense and money from Congress to fuel his plan.

It doesn't seem to take money - just a few high-profile verbal threats to build a wall and make Mexico pay, and a few high-profile raids and deportations - and suddenly, the upside of entering the US illegally doesn't look as big as the downside.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?
International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:11 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz!

Trump is destroying like crazy any global moral high ground the US had left.

Let’s just look at what happened on Monday (March 13). More details are at https://qz.com/931421

1) Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner parked his ownership stake in 666 Fifth Avenue—a luxury building in Manhattan—in a trust managed by his mother, Seryl Beth Kushner. That trust could soon be $400 million richer, Bloomberg reported on Monday, thanks to what’s been called a “sweetheart deal” with Chinese Communist Party-linked firm Anbang Insurance Group, that excuses a mountain of debt while valuing the stake aggressively. The deal also leaves the impression that the Kushners are profiting from their proximity to the White House, and raises questions about what the Trump administration may owe Anbang, and potentially the Communist Party, in return.

2) That’s not all. Foreign Policy reported on March 13 that the White House plans to reduce by 50% its contributions to the United Nations, pulling billions of dollars away from funding of global endeavors ranging from peacekeeping to vaccinations to caring for refugees. And a US government agency said the same day that a Trump-backed bill to replace his predecessor’s landmark health care act would leave 24 million uninsured, while raising premiums by 24%.

3) Meanwhile, asked for Trump’s reaction to US congressman Steve King’s recent racist remarks, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said he’d have to “get back to” reporters after checking with the president—leaving the impression that Trump doesn’t denounce them outright.

4) And Canada’s “Girl Guides,” the female scouting group, said it would suspend all field trips to the US, out of concern that some members might be stopped by US immigration, thanks to Trump's not sanely worded executive order.

Today’s events are just par for the course. But they’re a clear reminder of just how much things have changed in America in less than two months.
https://qz.com/931421

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




I'm glad that Girl Guides of Canada suspended all their planned trips to the US with Trump in charge and I hope other Canadian groups follow suit.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:13 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
In keeping with the theme “Is Trump Nuts?” some people have sensed that Trump is a megalomaniac, along with his other shining qualities.



Priceless image for some reason I am reminded of the giant statue Caligula had made of himself. Every day some of his minions would dress it in the exact same outfit he was wearing for the day. Trump's second term maybe?



Oh god oh god.

---------------------





Agreed THG. Because when I read that I thought the samething "Oh, god. Oh god."

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

how much credibility will the president have left to persuade the country of what has happened
I'd say a lot. Trump campaigned on illegal immigration, and he's gotten good results. Trump campaigned on repealing Obamacare, and it's in the works. Trump campaigned that there was no such thing as global warming, and Scott Pruitt now heads the EPA. And so on. Whether or not you agree with what he's doing, Trump's actions speak far louder than words to the people of the country. Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.



How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:36 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


'Credibility' iz completely meaningless in the Fox universe.

We are in danjer uv learning the hard way wut happenz wen the Nation'z polisyz colide with reality.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?
International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?

I recall that legally laboring in Mexico is far worse than illegally laboring in the USA. That's hard to believe, except if you've been to Mexico to a working ranch where cows and cowboys are treated equally brutally by the ruling decedents of the Conquistadors. Trump is not throwing Mexicans out of the USA because he wants to help them return to their rich and fulfilling lives back in Mexico. Trump has a different goal where citizens of the USA take the jobs that the illegals were doing.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

We are in danjer uv learning the hard way wut happenz wen the Nation'z polisyz colide with reality.
We should have learned that when bin Laden went from 'dead or alive!' to less than an afterthought, in 8 months. When there were no WMDs to be found. When we bombed countries for humanitarian reasons. When Gitmo wasn't closed. When Snowden told us what our government was doing - to us.

Are you saying all the bullshit, lies, and propaganda were OK up until now? But that now, NOW! it's a problem?




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

I recall that legally laboring in Mexico is far worse than illegally laboring in the USA.
Cite?
And I have to ask - do you think the US is responsible for the internal policies of Mexico, which is a democracy?




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:05 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.



How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

You still harping on that same old story? What's his name, Bernie, lost by millions of votes in the Democratic primary. In the general election he would have looked like a Commie and been annihilated, same as George McGovern was by Nixon, even after Nixon's "secret" plan to win the Vietnam War had achieved nothing for four years. And Watergate.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:13 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

I recall that legally laboring in Mexico is far worse than illegally laboring in the USA.
Cite?
And I have to ask - do you think the US is responsible for the internal policies of Mexico, which is a democracy?




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

Cite my ass. How many times has the USA invaded Mexico? Several. How much land did the USA rob from Mexico? Millions of square miles, you know, all of Texas, California, New Mexico. Having that land part of Mexico would have made Mexico a much different country. The USA violently turned Mexico into what it is today with the self-interested decedents of the Conquistadors running it for their personal benefit. I will tie that into the topic "Is Trump Nuts?" by noting it is nuts to think just because the old wars with Mexico are over, the ugly consequences of losing wars are also over for living Mexicans who never left their country even once for work, legal or illegal, in the USA. (I thank the God of War it's me receiving gas royalty checks rather than a jet setter from Madrid. Remember the Alamo!)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

No, and not the TTIP either but that's because they've kept it a secret. - SIGNY

seeekrrriiiittt! https://ustr.gov/ttip= JO



The link that you provided shows
Quote:

a summary of U.S. objectives, negotiating round and public forum information, T-TIP blog posts, facts sheets, reports, and press releases.
But no actual. yanno, copies available for analysis. When the TTIP and TTP were being negotiated...
Quote:

The European Commission is making the secret Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade deal even more secret, introducing a new rule that means politicians can only view the text in a secure 'reading room' in Brussels. ...

It's not just TTIP that is taking such extreme measures. The US-Asia equivalent, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), has a similar super-secure reading room.

Robert Smith, host of the Planet Money podcast on NPR, said: "In Washington DC they love secrecy, but even by Washington standards this amazed me. In the basement of the US capitol, there is a room, a locked soundproof room, and the only people allowed in this room are US senators, and they can't bring their assistants, they can't bring their phones, they can't even take notes in there. Inside this room is not the codes for our nuclear weapons, it's not CIA files, it's not the documents that tell us an alien landed in Roswell. No, in this room is the text of a trade deal."



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-controversy-secret
-trade-deal-can-only-be-read-secure-in-reading-room-in-brussels-10456206.html


Now, you have to realize that a LOT of people had free access to the provisions of both the TTP and the TTIP ...
transnational manufacturers
international banks
tech companies, agrobusiness, and pharma with vested interest in intellectual property

The people who were LEFT OUT? CONGRESSMEN AND MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT, LABOR UNIONS, ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS etc.

YES, IT WAS A SECRET despite your snide comment.

Quote:

NAFTA has a lot of problems, mostly economic, on BOTH ends of any trade.- SIGNY

Take away all the partisan noize and you can see the real bad guy. Big corporationz, especially oil, hav been raping & pilajing forever, long befor NAFTA. Capitalizm haz a dark side - its alwayz trying to get away with sum sort uv cheat. Its like this iz wut they teach in bizness skool!

Then why make it easier for them to screw you over?

Quote:

A better idea iz to regulate companyz that do international biz, such az requiring them to pay forin workerz at least haf uv wut American equivelents get. -JO

How do you enforce that? - SIGNY

The simpl way iz to require all payroll recordz to be submitted along with their inkum tax filingz. Naturally, if they are dealing with forin vendorz, it gets much more complicated.- JO

Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.

Quote:

JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia? - SIGNY

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz! - JO-

Good lord, how is that? Because our intentions are pure?

Quote:

A useful way uv looking at it iz that Goverment iz a mob. All goverments. It haz to be the most powerful mob in its own land and it helps if its the most powerful in its rejun. In the case uv the US, Russia and China, that rejun iz the entire planet.

A mob that lets it's rivalz expand or increase their power in any way without at least keeping close attention iz doomed. If therez a way to keep a rival from getting stronger, it iz foolish to not uze it. - JO

Why is it in OUR interests to keep sway over an entire planet? What do YOU get out of it?

Quote:

If they're so afraid of Russia, how about they look towards their own defense? It's not like they can't form their own alliances.- SIGNY

Seriously bad plan frum the US perspectiv. Seriously bad for the entire world. The only beneficiaryz woud be the armz manufacturerz. - JO

At least WE won't go broke trying to arm all of our "friends"!

Quote:

Also, increasing ICE and Border Patrol staffing, enforcing our immigration laws, improving visa-holder tracking, and ending or reducing H1B-style visa issuances.- SIGNY

The immigration system iz krap. Total krap. The GoPs blocked Obama frum fixing it and you want to blame Hillary? - JO

What was Obama's "fix"? Let everyone in? Legalize everyone?

Quote:

Yes, she has decades of experience being a Saudi-promoting, war-mongering, corrupt globalist bitch. Who wants "experience" like THAT? - SIGNY

You like to pin everything bad that you can think uv on Hillary and uze it az an excuse for voting for Trump. You dont seem to hav a good handl on how important the job uv Prezident iz and how rediculously unqualified he iz for it. - JO

No, I only pin the bad Hillary things on Hillary. As you may recall, I've had a lot of criticism of Obama. And you may not have been around for it, but I had plenty of scathing things to say about Bush, too.

Quote:

Dont forget the title uv this topic and that the ansr iz YES!- JO
Trump is being just like I said he would be: A LOOSE CANNON.

Well, we need a loose cannon. Trump may be a very flawed President, but still better than the alternative, which is a globalist/ deep state victory.

What are our interests? More war? Bigger more powerful banks? A flood of immigrants (which we created ourselves by destroying so many nations)? Universal control of the economy, environmental regulations and labor law by a secret group of monopolists?

What's your goal here, JO? What are you aiming at?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:07 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Cite my ass.
So, no cite. OK. Here's a listing of all of Mexico's 27 wars (not counting the 'war on drugs'), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Mexico including an 8 year war by Spain to reconquer Mexico, and only two wars that involved the US.
Quote:

How much land did the USA rob from Mexico?
I need to point out that the Republic of Texas - which was an entirely independent country not affiliated with the US government at the time, took itself out of Mexico's hands of its own accord. Mexico lost Texas to The Republic of Texas. That happened because at the time, Mexico had very few people settling the area (that was also true of Alta California) and wasn't able to defend the area against the influx of US settlers.
Quote:

The USA violently turned Mexico into what it is today with the self-interested decedents of the Conquistadors running it for their personal benefit.
And, as I see, neither of the US wars involved the US controlling Mexico proper as a subjugated land, or installing governments, or paying tribute.

And for some reason, a Hispanic coworker likes to blame Mexico's problems on the Hapsburgs - but I don't see it. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1861-1865/french-intervention

Anyway, Mexico is still a democracy, and the people still have the choice of voting for a different government if the one they have doesn't suit them. That really is up to them.




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:56 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You still harping on that same old story? What's his name, Bernie, lost by millions of votes in the Democratic primary. In the general election he would have looked like a Commie and been annihilated, same as George McGovern was by Nixon, even after Nixon's "secret" plan to win the Vietnam War had achieved nothing for four years. And Watergate.




SECOND

Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. I'm reposting these - yanno - facts, because you ignored them the first time around. And I put an especially relevant quote in larger font to help you focus on the salient point.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

CBS News exit polls suggest Trump’s win was in large part a repudiation of Hillary Clinton by a substantial number of white voters.
There are also indications that Clinton’s gender was a factor in the outcome.
Among white voters, 57 percent said Trump was not honest and trustworthy while fully 70 percent said the same of Clinton.
In the exit polls, voters were asked whether they strongly favored their candidate, liked their candidate but with reservations, or if they voted because they disliked the other candidate. While 21 percent of Clinton voters said they disliked the other candidates, more – 28 percent – of Trump voters reported that. There appears to have been more people voting against Clinton than against Trump.
It is difficult to say with any certainty, but with razor thin margins in some states, a small number of voters who might have supported Clinton (who voted for either Johnson or Stein) could have altered outcomes in some states.
Quote:


CBS News Exit Polls: How Donald Trump won the U.S. presidency

by Stanley Feldman and Melissa Herrmann

Many observers thought this presidential election would be decided by Donald Trump’s polarizing rhetoric, his history of behavior toward women and his questionable qualifications for the office.

Instead, CBS News exit polls suggest Trump’s win was in large part a repudiation of Hillary Clinton by a substantial number of white voters. While Clinton did win big majorities of minority voters, she did not get the level of support from those groups that she needed to overcome her deficit among white voters.

There are also indications that Clinton’s gender was a factor in the outcome. The gender gap was substantial. Trump beat Clinton by 53 percent to 41 percent among men while Clinton won among women by 54 percent to 42 percent. Four years ago, President Obama won 45 percent of men’s votes and Mitt Romney won 44 percent of women’s votes.

More telling is the gender breakdown among white voters: Trump beat Clinton among white women 53 percent to 43 percent. This was close to Romney’s margin in 2012. While Mr. Obama won 35 percent of white, male voters in 2012, Clinton lost to Trump among this group by 63 percent to 31 percent.

As expected, Trump did best among white voters without a college degree, beating Clinton by the enormous margin of 72 percent to 23 percent. Trump also won among white, non-college women 62 to 34 percent and white college-educated men, 54 to 39 percent. Among white voters, Clinton only won among women with a college degree by a 51 to 45 percent margin. Interestingly, among white voters, there is no evidence in the exit poll that income affected the likelihood that they supported Trump.

Clinton needed extremely strong support from African-American voters to try to offset Trump’s margin among whites. She did win 88 percent of the black vote to just 8 percent for Trump. However, this was significantly lower than the 93 percent of black voters Mr. Obama won four years ago. The falloff in her share of the black vote was entirely due to black men. Clinton won among black women by a 93 percent to 4 percent margin. Among black men she won by 80 percent to 13 percent.

Many political observers thought a significant number of Republicans would either vote for Clinton, one of the third party candidates, or stay home rather than casting their votes for Trump. According to the exit polls, Republicans stayed loyal to their presidential candidate. Some 89 percent of self-described Republicans voted for Trump; 91 percent of white Republicans did. In contrast, only 84 percent of white Democrats voted for Clinton. She did win 86 percent of white Democratic women, but only 81 percent of white, Democratic men voted for her.

Surprisingly, given all of the attention to Trump’s attitudes and behavior toward women, he did virtually as well among white, Republican women (91 percent support) as he did among white, Republican men (92 percent). Clinton was more competitive among white independent women than men, losing to Trump by a 49 to 41 percent margin among independent women and by 57 to 31 percent among independent men.

The Candidates’ Personal Characteristics

These were not likable candidates who instilled a great deal of confidence in their supporters. Many voters supported one of these candidates despite significant misgivings.

The majority of voters had unfavorable impressions of both. Twelve percent of Clinton voters and 20 percent of Trump voters had an unfavorable opinion of the candidate for whom they opted. So despite their misgivings about the candidates, something still compelled them to support one of them.

Both candidates were seen as not being honest or trustworthy by more than 6 out of 10 voters. However, among white voters, 57 percent said Trump was not honest and trustworthy while fully 70 percent said the same of Clinton. Almost 3 in 10 white voters said neither candidate was honest and trustworthy. Among this group, Trump won 52 percent to Clinton’s 32 percent. 13 percent of these voters supported one of the third party candidates.

Voters in the exit polls were asked if each of the candidates was qualified to serve as president. Almost half thought Clinton was not qualified but only 5 percent of her voters thought that. Even more voters, 6 out of 10, thought Trump was not qualified to be president. Almost a quarter of Trump voters gave him their support despite saying he was not qualified.

Voters were also asked whether each candidate has the temperament to serve effectively as president. By a slim margin, 55 percent to 43 percent, voters said Clinton did have the right temperament. Sixty-three percent said Trump did not have the temperament to be president. Just over half of all white voters said both candidates did not have the right temperament. While very few of Clinton’s voters questioned her temperament, 1 in 4 Trump voters backed him while saying he did not have the temperament to be president.

Voters were asked how they would feel if Clinton were elected president and 53 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Similarly, if Trump were elected president, 58 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Among Clinton voters, 10 percent would be concerned or scared if Clinton were elected and 95 percent would be concerned scared about a Trump presidency. Interestingly, while 94 percent of Trump voters would be concerned or scared about Clinton being elected, 17 percent said they would be concerned about a President Trump.

If many people had serious doubts about both candidates, is there a way to determine how they distinguished between Clinton and Trump? In the exit polls, voters were asked whether they strongly favored their candidate, liked their candidate but with reservations, or if they voted because they disliked the other candidate. While 21 percent of Clinton voters said they disliked the other candidates, more – 28 percent – of Trump voters reported that. There appears to have been more people voting against Clinton than against Trump.

A Verdict on Major Policy Issues?

Can we say Trump did better than expected in the election because a majority of voters supported his most powerfully articulated policy positions? Exit poll voters were asked whether most illegal immigrants working in the U.S. should be offered a chance to apply for legal status or deported to the country they came from. Fully 7 of 10 voters said they should be allowed to apply for legal status. Similarly, more people opposed building a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico than supported it. And virtually as many voters (38 percent) said trade with other countries creates more U.S. jobs as said it takes away jobs (42 percent).

How did Trump win when many of his core positions were so unpopular? Some people voted for him regardless of that. Among those who favored giving illegal immigrants a chance to apply for legal status, one in three voted for Trump. Thirty-five percent of people who said international trade creates jobs voted for Trump. And even 27 percent of white voters who said they want the next president to change to more liberal policies voted for Trump.

One issue that may have motivated some white voters is the ongoing national debate over the way police treat African-Americans. The exit poll asked voters whether they think the country’s criminal justice system treats all people fairly or treats blacks unfairly. Half of white voters said blacks are treated fairly while 41 percent say they are treated unfairly. Among the first group, 8 in 10 voted for Trump. Sixty-five percent who said blacks are treated unfairly voted for Clinton.

Did Johnson and Stein Affect the Outcome?

With so many tightly contested races, the votes cast for candidates such as Gary Johnson and Jill Stein may have impacted the overall results. The exit polling asked voters they would have cast ballots for if there were only two candidates (Clinton and Trump). A quarter of Johnson voters said Clinton, 15 percent said Trump, and 55 percent said they would not have voted. Numbers were similar for Stein voters, with about a quarter saying they would have chosen Clinton, 14 percent saying Trump, and 61 percent saying they would not have voted. It is difficult to say with any certainty, but with razor thin margins in some states, a small number of voters who might have supported Clinton could have altered outcomes in some states.

-------------

Stanley Feldman is professor of political science at Stony Brook University; Melissa Herrmann is president of SSRS



In addition, you need to see the interesting graph here showing how many democrats stayed home. I can't imagine how anyone could have done worse.:

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/09/graph-shows-hillary-clinton-los
t-democrats-vote.html





Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:02 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How much land did the USA rob from Mexico? Millions of square miles, you know, all of Texas, California, New Mexico. Having that land part of Mexico would have made Mexico a much different country.



It definitely would have made the US a much different place. There almost never would have been a Democratic president without those 55 electoral votes from California.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:37 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

We are in danjer uv learning the hard way wut happenz wen the Nation'z polisyz colide with reality.
We should have learned that when bin Laden went from 'dead or alive!' to less than an afterthought, in 8 months. When there were no WMDs to be found. When we bombed countries for humanitarian reasons. When Gitmo wasn't closed. When Snowden told us what our government was doing - to us.

Are you saying all the bullshit, lies, and propaganda were OK up until now? But that now, NOW! it's a problem?



Thats your rebut to support your inditement uv the Demz credibility?

Sorry, dood. You dont get to blame much uv anything on the Demz or Obama after the GoPS wajed war agenst them for 9 yirz. The Bin Laden part iz especially erronius, sins Obama subtracted hiz ass!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:27 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The link that you provided shows
Quote:

a summary of U.S. objectives, negotiating round and public forum information, T-TIP blog posts, facts sheets, reports, and press releases.
But no actual. yanno, copies available for analysis....YES, IT WAS A SECRET despite your snide comment.



I stand corrected.



Quote:

Quote:

The simpl way iz to require all payroll recordz to be submitted along with their inkum tax filingz. Naturally, if they are dealing with forin vendorz, it gets much more complicated.- JO
Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.



Ye, I no how it wrks. But not every company or even every industry iz able to do that and thoze that can cant do it 100%. So, wen Jimmy Lee in Shen Qua iz making 10x wut hiz nayborz are, it starts to spred. Pretty soon, even the novelty fake dog doo factory haz to start paying more to keep employeez.

Quote:

Quote:

JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia? - SIGNY

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz! - JO-

Good lord, how is that? Because our intentions are pure?



Sumthing to do with the US being a nation uv lawz (more or less) rather than a jiant corrupt cleptocrasy like Russia, China, India, Pakistan.

Quote:

Why is it in OUR interests to keep sway over an entire planet? What do YOU get out of it?


Good Q. The biggest paje on my site will probably end up being the ENVIRONMENT paje. Part uv it will go into that.

The short ansr iz individual power.

Due to the great amount uv power, especially the power to destroy, available to each uv us AND to groups uv any size, the survival uv the planet iz dependent on having sum sort uv indesputable unchallenjable Cop keeping a watch on thingz. The big dog on the block haz to be a good guy.

Quote:

Quote:

The immigration system iz krap. Total krap. The GoPs blocked Obama frum fixing it and you want to blame Hillary? - JO
What was Obama's "fix"? Let everyone in? Legalize everyone?



Hard to say sins the GoPs blocked it!!! I suppoze its available sumwhere anyway.

Quote:

Trump is being just like I said he would be: A LOOSE CANNON.

Well, we need a loose cannon.



Az per abuv about power - no we do not.

Quote:

What's your goal here, JO? What are you aiming at?


Same az alwayz. Increase averaj intellijens, wizdom and empathy. Redoos evil. Contain and incapasitate the bad guyz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:30 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


OOPS! Hit the 'reply with quote' butn insted uv 'edit'. Iz there a 'delete post' butn hidden sumwhere?

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How much land did the USA rob from Mexico? Millions of square miles, you know, all of Texas, California, New Mexico. Having that land part of Mexico would have made Mexico a much different country.



It definitely would have made the US a much different place. There almost never would have been a Democratic president without those 55 electoral votes from California.

Trump should be grateful to the 21st Century Mexicans for their ancestors "giving" Texas and the Western USA to Trump back in the 19th Century. It was not a voluntary gift, but it was a wonderful thing the Mexicans did. Speaking of voluntary:

Is Trump nuts not to voluntarily let us see his taxes?

Other Presidents have voluntarily disclosed their taxes because it protects them from innuendo and speculation such as: Is he secretly on the payroll of Russian oligarchs? Did he pay no taxes at all for years in the late 1990s? Is his every position on tax policy motivated by nothing more than personal greed?

But through all this, Trump still isn’t releasing his returns. And here’s what that means: Whatever is in his returns is not great. Trump has decided he prefers the picture where the president of the United States is shrouded in a perpetual haze of corruption, self-dealing, and impropriety to whatever clearer picture would emerge from full disclosure.

So what is it that’s in those tax returns?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 7:30 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I'm not going to have a debate with you or anybody else about what we owe to the wonderful Mexicans.

If you feel so guilty about that, donate all of your money to the American Indians since all of it was made on their land.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I'm not going to have a debate with you or anybody else about what we owe to the wonderful Mexicans.

If you feel so guilty about that, donate all of your money to the American Indians since all of it was made on their land.

1kiki was demanding that I present a citation ("cite") proving that illegals from Mexico have it worse in Mexico than when they are in the USA, or else 1kiki won't believe me. I doubt that illegals left better paying jobs in Mexico to steal poorly paid jobs from good old USA citizens for patriotic revenge against the USA stealing land from Mexico. Mexicans would have to be nuts to go to that much trouble for a little revenge.

Instead, Mexicans have been coming North for a century to take the worst jobs in the USA because the worst is better paying than the average job back in Mexico and the worst jobs in the USA are wide open to anybody who wants them. US citizens quit the worst jobs sooner than illegals will. Those jobs look comparatively good to what is in Mexico. (1kiki would want a "cite" to prove that about Mexicans' and US citizens' attitudes toward work, but that's 1kiki's nutty rhetorical trick.)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Republicans are threatening to expose Trump as the emperor with no clothes

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-republicans-are-threatening-t
o-expose-trump-as-the-emperor-with-no-clothes/ar-AAolZAe?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


Not the Republican voters, but the Congressional majority is a little peeved by Trump's nuttiness. The Republican Congress might even beat some sense into Trump or kick the crazy man in the nuts, despite what Trump's voters think of their wonderful man who vowed to fulfill ‘every dream you ever dreamed’. That promise, all by itself, was a giveaway that Trump is nuts.
www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-vows-fulfill-every-dream-you-ev
er-dreamed


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:30 AM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I'm not going to have a debate with you or anybody else about what we owe to the wonderful Mexicans.

If you feel so guilty about that, donate all of your money to the American Indians since all of it was made on their land.

1kiki was demanding that I present a citation ("cite") proving that illegals from Mexico have it worse in Mexico than when they are in the USA, or else 1kiki won't believe me. I doubt that illegals left better paying jobs in Mexico to steal poorly paid jobs from good old USA citizens for patriotic revenge against the USA stealing land from Mexico. Mexicans would have to be nuts to go to that much trouble for a little revenge.

Instead, Mexicans have been coming North for a century to take the worst jobs in the USA because the worst is better paying than the average job back in Mexico and the worst jobs in the USA are wide open to anybody who wants them. US citizens quit the worst jobs sooner than illegals will. Those jobs look comparatively good to what is in Mexico. (1kiki would want a "cite" to prove that about Mexicans' and US citizens' attitudes toward work, but that's 1kiki's nutty rhetorical trick.)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



An honest broker SECOND would not ask for that cite. They too would have to admit hearing for years and even decades these people saying themselves, they come here for a better life.

Unfortunately, 1kiki is one of several here that hate America so much, they can't utter a decent word about us.

---------------------


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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:35 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?
International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?




I dunno - is "International agribusiness gets diminished" a good thing? I already buy as much local as I can, will others? Do you?

"Slave labor goes bye-bye a good thing?" You seem to have no shame is making the dumbest assumptions and then asking the dumbest questions. I can't take you seriously when you do that. You pov is way too simple.

So fewer field hands/illegals means the price of produce sky rockets. How do you think Consumers will react? I made it simple for you Kiki!

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:44 AM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?
International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?




I dunno - is "International agribusiness gets diminished" a good thing? I already buy as much local as I can, will others? Do you?

"Slave labor goes bye-bye a good thing?" You seem to have no shame is making the dumbest assumptions and then asking the dumbest questions. I can't take you seriously when you do that. You pov is way too simple.

So fewer field hands/illegals means the price of produce sky rockets. How do you think Consumers will react? I made it simple for you Kiki!



A study done years ago showed if you doubled a field hands wages to $15.00, it would raise the price of cabbage 12 cents a head. Image how much better off the community would be if those field workers could pay their own way and had money to spend.

---------------------


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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:17 AM

6STRINGJOKER


At this point I say just raise the minimum wage to 20 bucks and lets see who was right.

We're all a decade or two away from being poor and completely dependent on government anyways.

All of us, except for Second.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:29 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?
International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?




I dunno - is "International agribusiness gets diminished" a good thing? I already buy as much local as I can, will others? Do you?

"Slave labor goes bye-bye a good thing?" You seem to have no shame is making the dumbest assumptions and then asking the dumbest questions. I can't take you seriously when you do that. You pov is way too simple.

So fewer field hands/illegals means the price of produce sky rockets. How do you think Consumers will react? I made it simple for you Kiki!



A study done years ago showed if you doubled a field hands wages to $15.00, it would raise the price of cabbage 12 cents a head. Image how much better off the community would be if those field workers could pay their own way and had money to spend.




As usual the smart, well thought out, well considered answer is somewhere in between the extremes. People that only see their agendas are a big problem, either side. Trump sees every issue as a deal, not people. He doesn't give a sh*t about us.

And it's obvious to most, as second alluded to, that those illegals are risking everything to get here and away from where they were, so where they were can't be too great. And now our brilliant immigration "solution" is to make here even worse than where they're coming from. Good ole' Amerikan No How!™ Problem solved, right?!?

And just like the GOP Care (pronounced "gop"), ram it through the system, like he's in a hurry. Maybe he's got some hotter business deals to take care of?

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:11 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


He'z stocking up on cigarettes, the standard curransy for prizonerz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
At this point I say just raise the minimum wage to 20 bucks and lets see who was right.

We're all a decade or two away from being poor and completely dependent on government anyways.

All of us, except for Second.

So long as Texas turns natural gas into plastic and exports liquefied natural gas, I'll have my royalty checks. But this is "Is Trump Nuts?" Trump made another seriously nutty decision today:

Trump is hiring the Bear Stearns economist who promised the economy was fine right before it went bankrupt! You are crazy, Trumpy!

David Malpass has been nominated to serve as undersecretary of Treasury for international affairs. In 2007, Malpass was chief economist at a soon-to-be-bankrupt investment bank, telling a country teetering on the brink of disaster that everything was okay. No amount of natural gas, no matter how large, will compensate for bad thinking at the Treasury if there should be another emergency like 2008. The whole USA could suffer for Malpass's (and Trump's) stupidity or insanity, take your pick in what you want to call what is wrong with these guys.

The fact that Malpass was utterly wrong didn’t stop him from trying again. In 2011, he popped back up with another Wall Street Journal op-ed urging the government to implement a policy of higher interest rates. Malpass said higher rates would lead to a stronger dollar and bigger economic growth. This is, to say the least, not how the majority of economists think this works. In 2012, Malpass warned that rejecting his advice was going to lead to a recession in 2013.

Obviously, that didn’t happen. Instead, the Fed kept interest rates low, leading to years of continuous job growth, which, in turn, led to a gradual strengthening of the dollar.

Bruce Bartlett, writing four years ago about Malpass’s poor track record, used it as a prime example of partisan bias in economic forecasting.

A perhaps optimistic view would be that Malpass was being deliberately biased in his past forecasts — trying to boost the fortunes of GOP politics as an outside propagandist while as a senior member of the Treasury team he’ll be boosting their fortunes by offering sound advice.

A bleaker view, however, would be that Malpass is a die-hard true believer who couldn’t contemplate the possibility that the low taxes and light regulation of the Bush years could be compatible with a catastrophic financial crisis. In an administration that’s already packed to the brim with Wall Street voices, that could be a very dangerous setup indeed.

www.vox.com/2017/3/15/14596938/david-malpass-treasury

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:15 PM

OONJERAH



^at Second: Look, I don't understand any of the financial principles &
maneuvers that you are explaining.
But I think you just said that with Trump & many of his like-thinking
cronies in charge, we are teetering on the brink of disaster as bad as
the stock market crash of 1929.

(So much for "Trump is a billionaire; he'll balance the budget.")



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 7:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I have serious doubts that Trump is going anywhere.

You libtards keep up the drama you're just ensuring that the GOP stays in control. Keep it up. ;)


Did you forget to capitalize "Libtard" here?

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 7:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You still harping on that same old story? What's his name, Bernie, lost by millions of votes in the Democratic primary. In the general election he would have looked like a Commie and been annihilated, same as George McGovern was by Nixon, even after Nixon's "secret" plan to win the Vietnam War had achieved nothing for four years. And Watergate.




SECOND

Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. I'm reposting these - yanno - facts, because you ignored them the first time around. And I put an especially relevant quote in larger font to help you focus on the salient point.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

CBS News exit polls suggest Trump’s win was in large part a repudiation of Hillary Clinton by a substantial number of white voters.
There are also indications that Clinton’s gender was a factor in the outcome.
Among white voters, 57 percent said Trump was not honest and trustworthy while fully 70 percent said the same of Clinton.
In the exit polls, voters were asked whether they strongly favored their candidate, liked their candidate but with reservations, or if they voted because they disliked the other candidate. While 21 percent of Clinton voters said they disliked the other candidates, more – 28 percent – of Trump voters reported that. There appears to have been more people voting against Clinton than against Trump.
It is difficult to say with any certainty, but with razor thin margins in some states, a small number of voters who might have supported Clinton (who voted for either Johnson or Stein) could have altered outcomes in some states.
Quote:


CBS News Exit Polls: How Donald Trump won the U.S. presidency

by Stanley Feldman and Melissa Herrmann

Many observers thought this presidential election would be decided by Donald Trump’s polarizing rhetoric, his history of behavior toward women and his questionable qualifications for the office.

Instead, CBS News exit polls suggest Trump’s win was in large part a repudiation of Hillary Clinton by a substantial number of white voters. While Clinton did win big majorities of minority voters, she did not get the level of support from those groups that she needed to overcome her deficit among white voters.

There are also indications that Clinton’s gender was a factor in the outcome. The gender gap was substantial. Trump beat Clinton by 53 percent to 41 percent among men while Clinton won among women by 54 percent to 42 percent. Four years ago, President Obama won 45 percent of men’s votes and Mitt Romney won 44 percent of women’s votes.

More telling is the gender breakdown among white voters: Trump beat Clinton among white women 53 percent to 43 percent. This was close to Romney’s margin in 2012. While Mr. Obama won 35 percent of white, male voters in 2012, Clinton lost to Trump among this group by 63 percent to 31 percent.

As expected, Trump did best among white voters without a college degree, beating Clinton by the enormous margin of 72 percent to 23 percent. Trump also won among white, non-college women 62 to 34 percent and white college-educated men, 54 to 39 percent. Among white voters, Clinton only won among women with a college degree by a 51 to 45 percent margin. Interestingly, among white voters, there is no evidence in the exit poll that income affected the likelihood that they supported Trump.

Clinton needed extremely strong support from African-American voters to try to offset Trump’s margin among whites. She did win 88 percent of the black vote to just 8 percent for Trump. However, this was significantly lower than the 93 percent of black voters Mr. Obama won four years ago. The falloff in her share of the black vote was entirely due to black men. Clinton won among black women by a 93 percent to 4 percent margin. Among black men she won by 80 percent to 13 percent.

Many political observers thought a significant number of Republicans would either vote for Clinton, one of the third party candidates, or stay home rather than casting their votes for Trump. According to the exit polls, Republicans stayed loyal to their presidential candidate. Some 89 percent of self-described Republicans voted for Trump; 91 percent of white Republicans did. In contrast, only 84 percent of white Democrats voted for Clinton. She did win 86 percent of white Democratic women, but only 81 percent of white, Democratic men voted for her.

Surprisingly, given all of the attention to Trump’s attitudes and behavior toward women, he did virtually as well among white, Republican women (91 percent support) as he did among white, Republican men (92 percent). Clinton was more competitive among white independent women than men, losing to Trump by a 49 to 41 percent margin among independent women and by 57 to 31 percent among independent men.

The Candidates’ Personal Characteristics

These were not likable candidates who instilled a great deal of confidence in their supporters. Many voters supported one of these candidates despite significant misgivings.

The majority of voters had unfavorable impressions of both. Twelve percent of Clinton voters and 20 percent of Trump voters had an unfavorable opinion of the candidate for whom they opted. So despite their misgivings about the candidates, something still compelled them to support one of them.

Both candidates were seen as not being honest or trustworthy by more than 6 out of 10 voters. However, among white voters, 57 percent said Trump was not honest and trustworthy while fully 70 percent said the same of Clinton. Almost 3 in 10 white voters said neither candidate was honest and trustworthy. Among this group, Trump won 52 percent to Clinton’s 32 percent. 13 percent of these voters supported one of the third party candidates.

Voters in the exit polls were asked if each of the candidates was qualified to serve as president. Almost half thought Clinton was not qualified but only 5 percent of her voters thought that. Even more voters, 6 out of 10, thought Trump was not qualified to be president. Almost a quarter of Trump voters gave him their support despite saying he was not qualified.

Voters were also asked whether each candidate has the temperament to serve effectively as president. By a slim margin, 55 percent to 43 percent, voters said Clinton did have the right temperament. Sixty-three percent said Trump did not have the temperament to be president. Just over half of all white voters said both candidates did not have the right temperament. While very few of Clinton’s voters questioned her temperament, 1 in 4 Trump voters backed him while saying he did not have the temperament to be president.

Voters were asked how they would feel if Clinton were elected president and 53 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Similarly, if Trump were elected president, 58 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Among Clinton voters, 10 percent would be concerned or scared if Clinton were elected and 95 percent would be concerned scared about a Trump presidency. Interestingly, while 94 percent of Trump voters would be concerned or scared about Clinton being elected, 17 percent said they would be concerned about a President Trump.

If many people had serious doubts about both candidates, is there a way to determine how they distinguished between Clinton and Trump? In the exit polls, voters were asked whether they strongly favored their candidate, liked their candidate but with reservations, or if they voted because they disliked the other candidate. While 21 percent of Clinton voters said they disliked the other candidates, more – 28 percent – of Trump voters reported that. There appears to have been more people voting against Clinton than against Trump.

A Verdict on Major Policy Issues?

Can we say Trump did better than expected in the election because a majority of voters supported his most powerfully articulated policy positions? Exit poll voters were asked whether most illegal immigrants working in the U.S. should be offered a chance to apply for legal status or deported to the country they came from. Fully 7 of 10 voters said they should be allowed to apply for legal status. Similarly, more people opposed building a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico than supported it. And virtually as many voters (38 percent) said trade with other countries creates more U.S. jobs as said it takes away jobs (42 percent).

How did Trump win when many of his core positions were so unpopular? Some people voted for him regardless of that. Among those who favored giving illegal immigrants a chance to apply for legal status, one in three voted for Trump. Thirty-five percent of people who said international trade creates jobs voted for Trump. And even 27 percent of white voters who said they want the next president to change to more liberal policies voted for Trump.

One issue that may have motivated some white voters is the ongoing national debate over the way police treat African-Americans. The exit poll asked voters whether they think the country’s criminal justice system treats all people fairly or treats blacks unfairly. Half of white voters said blacks are treated fairly while 41 percent say they are treated unfairly. Among the first group, 8 in 10 voted for Trump. Sixty-five percent who said blacks are treated unfairly voted for Clinton.

Did Johnson and Stein Affect the Outcome?

With so many tightly contested races, the votes cast for candidates such as Gary Johnson and Jill Stein may have impacted the overall results. The exit polling asked voters they would have cast ballots for if there were only two candidates (Clinton and Trump). A quarter of Johnson voters said Clinton, 15 percent said Trump, and 55 percent said they would not have voted. Numbers were similar for Stein voters, with about a quarter saying they would have chosen Clinton, 14 percent saying Trump, and 61 percent saying they would not have voted. It is difficult to say with any certainty, but with razor thin margins in some states, a small number of voters who might have supported Clinton could have altered outcomes in some states.

-------------

Stanley Feldman is professor of political science at Stony Brook University; Melissa Herrmann is president of SSRS



In addition, you need to see the interesting graph here showing how many democrats stayed home. I can't imagine how anyone could have done worse.:



http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/09/graph-shows-hillary-clinton-los
t-democrats-vote.html

Quote:




Interesting.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:48 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

^at Second: Look, I don't understand any of the financial principles &
maneuvers that you are explaining.
But I think you just said that with Trump & many of his like-thinking
cronies in charge, we are teetering on the brink of disaster as bad as
the stock market crash of 1929.

(So much for "Trump is a billionaire; he'll balance the budget.")

The USA is NOT teetering on the brink of financial disaster, but if Trump and his regulators follow the financial deregulation pattern of G.W.Bush, in eight years or less the USA could have a repeat of the crash of 2008 with one ugly twist: at least Bush and his people were not paralyzed with indecision during the disaster they caused. Trump and his people have totally wrong instincts & misunderstanding.

Trump would be as dumb as Herbert Hoover was about handling a crisis the size of the Crash of 1929. When in business Trump couldn't wrap his brain around a problem bigger than defrauding his investors and cheating on his taxes. As President he seems a smaller man than he was in business.
https://millercenter.org/president/hoover/domestic-affairs

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:22 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

The USA is NOT teetering on the brink of financial disaster, but if Trump and his regulators follow the financial deregulation pattern of G.W.Bush, in eight years or less the USA could have a repeat of the crash of 2008 with one ugly twist: at least Bush and his people were not paralyzed with indecision during the disaster they caused. Trump and his people have totally wrong instincts & misunderstanding.

Trump would be as dumb as Herbert Hoover was about handling a crisis the size of the Crash of 1929. When in business Trump couldn't wrap his brain around a problem bigger than defrauding his investors and cheating on his taxes. As President he seems a smaller man than he was in business.


?!

Yeah, I know, someone is wrong on the internet. No going to throw an opinion in here, just see some alternative facts that need correcting.

1) Deregulation was Bill Clinton, not GHW Bush.
2) It's hard to see how Glass-Steagall would encourage a crash.
3) The current president has far more experience in business than his precessor
4) The Hoover plan was what FDR based his 100 days on. The major difference was that FDR had congress on his side. There wasn't really difference of opinion there.

Srsly. Did a democratic ever do anything wrong or a republican ever do anything right?

If the answer is "no" then maybe you should rethink the whole democracy thing.

also this
Quote:

So long as Texas turns natural gas into plastic and exports liquefied natural gas, I'll have my royalty checks.
You signed a gas lease?

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:

Srsly. Did a democratic ever do anything wrong or a republican ever do anything right?

If the answer is "no" then maybe you should rethink the whole democracy thing.

There are degrees of wrongness, shades of gray. The shade you see depends on who you are. For example, if you were me, you'd see the following story as demonstrating in big black letters that "Trump Is Nuts". If you were a dyed in the wool Trump voter the same story is all white letters on a white background and you see no hint of gray anywhere:
Quote:

Trump campaigned for the presidency by pledging no tax cuts for the wealthy, but newly leaked pages from his 2005 taxes demonstrate how the wealthiest Americans — like Trump — would benefit from some of his tax proposals.

Trump’s proposals to eliminate the alternative minimum tax, cut the capital gains tax rate and curb income tax rates would have shrunk his tax bill dramatically if they had been in place over a decade ago. The AMT alone was responsible for roughly 86 percent of his federal tax bill.

The Trump administration has said it would make up for lost revenue by closing loopholes, but the specific deductions Trump’s plan would eliminate have not been laid out in detail.

Trump’s promise to not slash taxes for the rich has already been called into question

I believe the Republican formulation for explaining Trump's promises is "Take him seriously, not literally." http://bigstory.ap.org/article/112dc47ef9ac4371958ae63d1aa824de/trump-
tax-bill-would-have-been-slashed-his-plans


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

^at Second: Look, I don't understand any of the financial principles & maneuvers that you are explaining. But I think you just said that with Trump & many of his like-thinking cronies in charge, we are teetering on the brink of disaster as bad as the stock market crash of 1929. - OOJ


OONJ, we have been teetering on the brink of a collapse since .... well, it would be hard to figure out when this all really started.

Was it when Nixon untied the dollar from gold and linked it to oil instead ("petrodollar") in 1973?

When Clinton repealed the Glass Steagall Act and signed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act in 1999?

Was it when we started running trade deficits in 1976, or when our cumulative trade deficit topped our entire GDP output ten years later?

Or when hedge funds racked up somewhere in the realm of 10-1000X of the entire world's output in DEBT, based on the dollar, in betting on derivatives contracts?

Or maybe it was when the Fed bought toxic assets from the bad banks which created them, spewing money into the hands of the already-wealthy?

Or maybe it was our Ponzi-style scheme of fractional reserve banking?

Whatever and whenever it happened, we are really just a pending disaster. I know its fashionable to blame Trump for well, everything, but many people in both parties had a had in setting this up. Give credit where credit is due.

Although much of our trade, manufacturing, banking, and currency problems can be laid at the feet of Nixon who opened trade with China and negotiated the petrodollar deal, Bill who pushed for Permanent Trade Relations with China even though his own administration foresaw spiraling deficits and shrinking manufacturing, http://www.epi.org/publication/issuebriefs_ib137/ and Bush who oversaw the accession of China into the WTO in 2001.

Oh, that Bill Clinton: never a "free trade" deal that he didn't like!

< insert fucked in the ass cartoon here >


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Whatever and whenever it happened, we are really just a pending disaster. I know its fashionable to blame Trump for well, everything, but many people in both parties had a had in setting this up. Give credit where credit is due.

You are using the wrong analogue of a cliff that the whole world is standing on the edge. A better analogue is that humanity is riding in thousands of buses with thousands of drivers, drivers being leaders. Any driver could crash his bus into a ditch or another bus at any moment because the driver forgot about the steering wheel. A blind driver in the biggest bus on the road, Trump at the wheel of America, could run most of the other buses off the road. The potential for disaster is because we are moving at high speeds in huge machines designed by people we don't understand and never meet with. The confusion comes from thinking that we should be living slowly, peacefully in the year 30 AD, before Jesus was crucified, if only those capitalists and their money and armies hadn't taken over the world.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

Whatever and whenever it happened, we are really just a pending disaster. I know its fashionable to blame Trump for well, everything, but many people in both parties had a had in setting this up. Give credit where credit is due. - SIGNY

You are using the wrong analogue of a cliff that the whole world is standing on the edge. = SECOND

Not "the whole world" but quite a lot of it, and there is nothing wrong my description which - BTW- was NOT an "analogy". "We" .... and by "we" I mean "they" ... the IMF, the World Bank, the Central Banks, the various heads of state but especially China and the USA .... have walked us here, step by step.
Quote:

A better analogue is that humanity is riding in thousands of buses with thousands of drivers, drivers being leaders. Any driver could crash his bus into a ditch or another bus at any moment because the driver forgot about the steering wheel. A blind driver in the biggest bus on the road, Trump at the wheel of America, could run most of the other buses off the road. The potential for disaster is because we are moving at high speeds in huge machines designed by people we don't understand and never meet with. The confusion comes from thinking that we should be living slowly, peacefully in the year 30 AD, before Jesus was crucified, if only those capitalists and their money and armies hadn't taken over the world.


That was just about the most irrational post I've read from you lately.

I wasn't posting "analogies" SECOND, I was posting FACTS: Dollar-denominated debt is somewhere in the realm of 10-1000X the entire world GDP, and the vast the bulk of that debt is funding "derivatives" speculation. We could NEVER pay that off, ever. It took many steps by many institutions and leaders to get where we are today, and yet: Here we are.

I'll leave the "analogizing" to you.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:17 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I wasn't posting "analogies" SECOND, I was posting FACTS: Dollar-denominated debt is somewhere in the realm of 10-1000X the entire world GDP . . .

I really love the way you think. No, not really. Trump is blessed with congressional majorities. One would expect his budget to be a fairly literal legislative proposal. Trump’s budget is different.

Its military spending increases would violate the Budget Control Act of 2011, meaning that it could not actually be passed as a budget. (The law itself could be amended, but that, unlike a budget, would take 60 votes). Which is just as well, because a budget that completely ignores both taxes and the domestic entitlement programs — Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, plus some smaller items — isn’t really a budget at all.

Instead, it’s simply an effort to translate a policy-ignorant candidate’s often nonsensical campaign rhetoric into something budget-shaped. Trump promised to balance the budget while cutting taxes and preserving entitlements — which isn’t possible. So huge swathes of the budget are simply missing. He promised a big defense hike, so it’s in there even though it’s illegal.

The blame for most of what has gone wrong with the USA ought not be distributed to the rest of the world as you, Signym, have just now done: "... the IMF, the World Bank, the Central Banks, the various heads of state but especially China and the USA .... have walked us here, step by step." The blame for what is wrong with the USA can be found within the budget. Trump's is a crazy budget from a crazy man. Remember, this topic is "Is Trump Nuts?" The topic is not "Is Somebody Not Trump Nuts?"

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

I really love the way you think. No, not really- SECOND
I really love the way you don't think. No, not really

Quote:

Trump is blessed with congressional majorities. One would expect his budget to be a fairly literal legislative proposal. Trump’s budget is different.- SECOND


Dollar-denominated debt is made of all kinds of parts: individual debt (made of mortgages, student loans, car loans and credit card debt), business debt (including private pensions, loans taken out to repurchase stock or for M&As), public debt (Federal state, city etc which also include public pensions), and financial debt- loans taken for speculation in futures, hedge funds, commodities, and derivatives. Of those, by far, the largest and scariest part of the debt problem is DERIVATIVES. Oh, and BTW- derivatives are denominated in dollars and ONLY in dollars, so only the dollar would get hit in a derivatives melt-down.

How do I know this? Well, people who deal in derivatives say so, and all of the bank regulators say so, too. The reason why nobody knows HOW MUCH debt there is ... but they know it's a lot ... is because THIS debt is "off book". It's the one category of loans that banks get let off the hook, for the most part.

The Federal deficit in a pimple on the ass of a much, MUCH larger problem. It's important, but it's not THE most important problem. Banks have a much bigger problem.

So, yeah- let's go for that balanced budget (BTW, Obama raised the Federal debt more than all other Presidents combined, so why weren't you bitching about that then?) but remember that there are much bigger fish to fry out there, and re-impose Glass Steagall so that our retail savings don't get "invested" in derivatives.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


HEY JO! I didn't want to have this discussion get lost in the shuffle! Right now this is one of the few intelligent ones going. By topic:

THE TPP/TTIP
Quote:

The link that you provided shows a summary of U.S. objectives, negotiating round and public forum information, T-TIP blog posts, facts sheets, reports, and press releases. But no actual. yanno, copies available for analysis....YES, IT WAS A SECRET despite your snide comment.- SIGNY

I stand corrected.- JO

And the specific problems with these "free trade" agreements isn't the usual economic one (where the people at both ends suffer a reduced standard of living and only the transnationals benefit, like NAFTA) but also a POLITICAL one:

A nation relinquishing control over its internal policies (where they conflict with "usual and expected profits" ... which is pretty much everywhere) to a private tribunal of transnational corporations. That's a one-way step. Now, what kind of leader (President or Prime Minister) would sign such a deal except a traitor? This is so much bigger than Trump versus Hillary. The transnationals will, for sure, attempt to negotiate something similar in the future, whether in a series of "bilateral" deals (a la Trump) or as part of a whole new multi-party package. All new trade deals need to be examined closely, no matter who is President.

Quote:

The simpl way iz to require all payroll recordz to be submitted along with their inkum tax filingz. Naturally, if they are dealing with forin vendorz, it gets much more complicated.- JO

Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.- SIGNY

Ye, I no how it wrks. But not every company or even every industry iz able to do that and thoze that can cant do it 100%. So, wen Jimmy Lee in Shen Qua iz making 10x wut hiz nayborz are, it starts to spred. Pretty soon, even the novelty fake dog doo factory haz to start paying more to keep employeez.- JO

What you are talking about is a regulatory requirement: make payroll receipts and tax filings a necessary submission. Let's assume that extends to subcontractors and sub-subcontractors and down the the individual who has been "scraped off" the wage system and is working as a sub-sub-subcontractor him/herself. THEY have to submit their income statements, too!

Hey, I work in a regulatory agency, and we demand a lot of paperwork, and yet all of that paperwork has not prevented some terrible environmental crimes. So you need actual inspectors ... people going to the shops and homes to examine their standard of living etc to make sure that the paperwork is correct. And then, assuming you find a violation, you still need to have a hearing ... at which point the vendor will devolve responsibility to those below* ... and then assign a penalty. What's the penalty?

*the problem of "shared responsibility" where each party is guilty only of a small part of evil-doing. It makes participation much easier on the conscience of the individuals and much harder to prove guilt.

Quote:

JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia? - SIGNY

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz! - JO

Good lord, how is that? Because our intentions are pure?- SIGNY

Sumthing to do with the US being a nation uv lawz (more or less) rather than a jiant corrupt cleptocrasy like Russia, China, India, Pakistan. - JO

So being a nation of laws instead of a "giant kleptocracy" explains why we have been destroying and exploiting nations for years and why the system that WE stand behind- the IMF, the World Bank, and Free Enterprise has created a situation where 8 people own more than the bottom 50% of the world, and we have the largest wealth gap .... ever? Oh, you mean THAT "nation of laws"??? Hmmm.... maybe there's something wrong with our laws, then, because they don't seem to be preventing kleptocracy very well.

Quote:

Why is it in OUR interests to keep sway over an entire planet? What do YOU get out of it?- SIGNY

Good Q. The biggest paje on my site will probably end up being the ENVIRONMENT paje. Part uv it will go into that.

The short ansr iz individual power.- JO

Okay, you got me there. I have no idea what you're saying.

Quote:

Due to the great amount uv power, especially the power to destroy, available to each uv us AND to groups uv any size, the survival uv the planet iz dependent on having sum sort uv indesputable unchallenjable Cop keeping a watch on thingz. The big dog on the block haz to be a good guy.- JO

Can't figure this out, either.

If you're saying that individuals SHOULD have power, I disagree with that concept.
If you're saying that individuals DO have power, I disagree with that concept too. Most individuals have no power at all, not even over their own lives.

And then you propose that there has to be some "big dog" to ride herd on this group of death-dealing individuals, because that is the only way to survive.

And then you make some kind of tautology that the big dog has to be the good guy, but no way of defining what "the good guy" is or ensuring that the big dog WILL be the good guy.

I'm totally flummoxed. What are you saying? I feel that you're making sense, from your assumptions, and that your statements are connected, but I don't know how. Please explain.

Quote:

The immigration system iz krap. Total krap. The GoPs blocked Obama frum fixing it and you want to blame Hillary? - JO
What was Obama's "fix"? Let everyone in? Legalize everyone?- SIGNY
Hard to say sins the GoPs blocked it!!! I suppoze its available sumwhere anyway.- JO

I'm not blaming Hillary for whatever Obama did, I'm only blaming Hillary for what she said she would do, most of which I disagree with. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/ I have my own plan which I like a lot better.

Quote:

Trump is being just like I said he would be: A LOOSE CANNON. Well, we need a loose cannon. - SIGNY

Az per abuv about power - no we do not.- JO

Not understnaind what you said about power, I have no idea about this either.

Quote:

What's your goal here, JO? What are you aiming at? - SIGNY
Same az alwayz. Increase averaj intellijens, wizdom and empathy. Redoos evil. Contain and incapasitate the bad guyz.- JO

First of all... does this apply worldwide? Do you feel that it is ethical to impose your views on others? and how do you intend to do this?


I do agree about the environment by the way.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:06 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

There are degrees of wrongness, shades of gray. The shade you see depends on who you are. For example, if you were me, you'd see the following story as demonstrating in big black letters that "Trump Is Nuts".


The problem with "Trump hate" for me is that it's ridiculous to pretend we don't already know exactly who Donald Trump is. I remember Ivanka being born. I remember her and him being in the news nonstop for most of my life. We know exactly who he is. I was discussing the idea of Trump as a politician at RPUSA almost 15 years ago and they said "Trump is only in it for himself. And his family."

That said, I'm sure he'll do things for the inner cities, for America, but probably not unless he's getting something out of the deal.

I don't think there are dyed in the wool Trump voters. I think he's to the left of me, and I'm a moderate dem.

HINT: Lose the tax story. I mean this sincerely. I'm an undecided american, re: Trump. I think Trump is in it for Trump. Trump wants to convince me otherwise. I don't know how I vote in 2020. You want to make sure I vote for Trump? keep thumping that tax syort. And throw in a "but Russia" for good measure. And really, that's jsut my solid advice. Some arguments are losers. presidents are 1%ers, and 1%ers dodge taxes. We get that.

"Trump — would benefit from some of his tax proposals." Yes, but nothing compared to the benefit of Rex Tillerson's trillion dollar oil deal, which, btw, I support. And me a moderate dem and environmentalist. I'm almost a one issue eco-voter, but I just judge for myself what I think is bad for the earth and I know a lot about it. So, oil deal? I like it.It gets rid of a lot of bad energy policy like fracking, which I hate. Alternative Energies? I love 'em. Trump, not so much. But I think he'll be overruled on that. As I said, I'm undecided. I don't know. On Hillary? I was decided. No Hillary. Never Clinton. So, Bernie, even though I can't stand socialism, I like Bernie. And Stein, because, it's a protest vote, "Go Earth!" hug a tree, etc.

I'm not so atypical from what I hear. I like peace, prosperity, clean air, clean water, and no coporate monopolies. I don't really care whether anyone else pays their taxes. Federal Taxes are for Discretionary Spending, which means military, which means war. So yeah, no one should pay taxes,including Donald Trump. He should build hotels and casinos, that employee people. Taxes just kill people. Entitlement spending, that comes out of FICA. But this:

Quote:

Trump’s proposals to eliminate the alternative minimum tax, cut the capital gains tax rate and curb income tax rates would have shrunk his tax bill dramatically if they had been in place over a decade ago. The AMT alone was responsible for roughly 86 percent of his federal tax bill.

Good for him. Get rid of the AMT, please. Why?I know what you're thinking, this guy who make <20k doesn't know what's good for him. But here's my argument

If you earn 20k, you spend it all on goods and services, commerce.
If you earn 100k, you pay at least half in taxes, and 20-40k on commerce.
people earning 1 million? they spend maybe 50-100k on commerce, and the rest they invest.

So, my income goes to commerce, where i buy things. The price of those things is determined by the value of the dollar (a mix of how much America is producing as an industrial power, and how much oil* we own) and how much Tax the merchant who is selling me goods and services has ot pay in taxes. And AMT is 7% of that. So, it's just a chip, but we can knock it down, then good. No one in this country wants to pay it, and I don't want to pay the higher prices that result from them paying it.

Quote:

The Trump administration has said it would make up for lost revenue by closing loopholes, but the specific deductions Trump’s plan would eliminate have not been laid out in detail.

Okay, the income of the federal govt. goes down. So what. It doesn't run school or repair roads, pay for healthcare or food stamps, it just goes to war with people who have never seen a soda fountain or Disneyland, they've probably never seen a Disney movie in osme of the places we're bombing.

Quote:

Trump’s promise to not slash taxes for the rich has already been called into question

Donald Trump said he would slash taxes repeatly in his campaign. Where are you getting that he said he wouldn't?
Quote:


"Any reductions we have in upper-income taxes would be offset by less deductions, so there would be no absolute tax cut for the upper class," Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC in November.


Okay, but that's the Goldman guy. Trump said the big earners would create the big jobs, and they should get a tax break. I think he said that in the debates. I disagree that they'd do that, but I'm prepared to be wrong. I know I'd hire more people if I have more money. But who knows.

Basically, I think this is his economic plan, and he pretty much said so. I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but I'm not going to jump up and down on ti just because Olberman and Maddow don't like republicans. Maybe that's what makes America great again. I'm not naive or stupid, but the liberal govt. control version was tried by CLinton, Bush and Obama, and it did not work out well, so I'm willing to listen to someone else's economic plan.

What I want to know is what the fuck are we doing in Yemen?

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