REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Can we post about something else now?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, March 20, 2017 21:24
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Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ok, I get your angst about Trump. He's a pussy-grabbing racist narcissist who knows next to nothing about anything, and reacts unpredictably whenever his ego is tweaked. He bullshits constantly. Plus, he has small hands. And then ... BUT RUSSIA!.

Ok, now what?

Can we possibly talk about more important/ interesting things now? The USA is in deep deep dept. We owe the entire world's output somewhere between 10-1000X over. I know it's fashionable to think that "debt doesn't matter", but when you use your currency to pay for stuff all over the world, and your currency suddenly drops ... what then? It will be like Venezuela, or worse.

Our foreign policy is in shambles because we have been kowtowing to Saudi Arabia and the banks which hold our petrodollars. Our elected officials have been almost completely corrupted by money. Our economy, the REAL economy, is withered because most of our "money" has flowed into "financials".

We're facing massive environmental challenge.

Worse, we no longer even agree on what our problems are, how can solve them, or whether or not we even SHOULD solve them together because we're so atomized that any additional effort on our part already feels like another sacrifice for a scam that's been pulled on us too many times.

People know that something is wrong, they do. There was the Tea Party, but then it was co-opted. There was Occupy, but it was ignored. Now there is Trump, elected as a populist. This can't go on forever.

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 8:32 AM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


*Waiting for you to realize there is nothing you can do.
*Waiting for you to realize how incredibly out of your hands all this is because "they" will never let you affect change at all, even if a group does agree... mental illness will assure there will NEVER be a consensus.
*Waiting for you to get angry and feel impotent.
*Waiting for you to realize the futility.
*Waiting for you to realize it's a chronic condition.
*Waiting for you to realize "freedom" is a joke, an illusion.


Waiting for you to go back to #1.

Repeat until death.

I'm literally seven steps ahead of you.

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 8:46 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ok, I get your angst about Trump. He's a pussy-grabbing racist narcissist who knows next to nothing about anything, and reacts unpredictably whenever his ego is tweaked. He bullshits constantly. Plus, he has small hands. And then ... BUT RUSSIA!.

Ok, now what?

Can we possibly talk about more important/ interesting things now? The USA is in deep deep dept. We owe the entire world's output somewhere between 10-1000X over. I know it's fashionable to think that "debt doesn't matter", but when you use your currency to pay for stuff all over the world, and your currency suddenly drops ... what then? It will be like Venezuela, or worse.

Our foreign policy is in shambles because we have been kowtowing to Saudi Arabia and the banks which hold our petrodollars. Our elected officials have been almost completely corrupted by money. Our economy, the REAL economy, is withered because most of our "money" has flowed into "financials".

We're facing massive environmental challenge.

Worse, we no longer even agree on what our problems are, how can solve them, or whether or not we even SHOULD solve them together because we're so atomized that any additional effort on our part already feels like another sacrifice for a scam that's been pulled on us too many times.

People know that something is wrong, they do. There was the Tea Party, but then it was co-opted. There was Occupy, but it was ignored. Now there is Trump, elected as a populist. This can't go on forever.



"Oh, I looked into this stupid thread. My bad." - sound familiar?

Deflection, stat! Getting a little too hot being a Trump supporter?

How about you post whatever you want and we'll do the same?

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 11:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
*Waiting for you to realize there is nothing you can do.
*Waiting for you to realize how incredibly out of your hands all this is because "they" will never let you affect change at all, even if a group does agree... mental illness will assure there will NEVER be a consensus.
*Waiting for you to get angry and feel impotent.
*Waiting for you to realize the futility.
*Waiting for you to realize it's a chronic condition.
*Waiting for you to realize "freedom" is a joke, an illusion.


Waiting for you to go back to #1.

Repeat until death.

I'm literally seven steps ahead of you.



Nope, I've been through all that already. Not only am I seven steps ahead of YOU, I've gone on to the next level of the game!

Here's a hint: Lack of control does not mean giving up on learning.

I know that when you're up to your ass in alligators it's really difficult to focus on anything else except finding those tools which will either help you defeat the alligators or possibly escape the swamp. I'm well and truly familiar with the situation.

I have been told - and I have the experience to know for real - that stress interferes with thought. People under stress hyperfocus on their stressors. They tend to narrow their scope of thought, which means that sometimes different options and choices are out of sight ... options that might actually be better than the ones immediately in front of them. It's important to gain a different perspective, if only by looking at the night sky, or going to church, or gardening, or do whatever activities (multiple) restore calm, either by giving back control or by showing that all things shall indeed pass .... even the earth. Even the stars. (After our daughter was born with a catastrophic Grade IV brain bleed, I used to go outside and look at the stars. It did remind me that my problems were, in comparison, small. That was my church.)



WISHY, you have a deep need for control (as BTW do I) and those events which you can't control (and many times you CAN'T control them) are very frustrating, so try not to react to those things which are truly out of your control. You know what "they" say - you can't control events, you can only control your reaction to them.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 11:13 AM

DREAMTROVE


Not a chance! This is Trump'll fry fans.net!

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, I finally figured out that "virtue signaling" and "collective guilt" are different sides of the same coin.

Thinking about collective guilt ... that whole idea of "reparations" for slavery, as espoused by the "black community" ...

First of all, there's no such thing, as far as I can tell, as "the black community". That presumes that blacks share the same agenda simply based on their skin color. Saying "the black community" makes as much sense as saying "the white community" and is simply a PC was of saying "blacks" ... which sounds racist because you're defining people by their skin color! Better to say "the black community" because THAT way you're lumping people together by some presumed common cause, not just their skin color. So much better!

So, I should give up some of my wealth because "white people" benefited from slavery?

Hey, my dad arrived in the USA in 1949, and my mom's parents arrived 1910 and 1921. Slavery was about 150-200 years in the past. Then I realized that MOST families in the USA probably arrived after 1865. Irish, Germans, Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Mexicans, Jews ... what did they have to do with slavery? And then it occurred to me ... although there were American families who fought on the side of the Confederacy, there were also American families who fought on the side of the Union i.e against slavery. If blame is to be assigned to those who benefited from slavery, will credit be assigned to those who lost ... family members and/or wealth ... by fighting on the other side? And what about women? Since they didn't even have a chance to vote or own property, what is THEIR guilt in the matter?

So then, parsing this even further, what about the descendants of slave-owners? I'm sure there are still a few around. Are THEY guilty? If so, of what? Having the wrong forbears?

That's when I realized that collective guilt is ludicrous. When you see collective guilt operating on a grand scale, as in Germany, is when you see policy decisions that are no longer responsive to reality.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 1:14 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I agree with all of that. I'm sure somebody will be in here soon to shoot holes through it though.



Batman has enough White Guilt for all of us.

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 1:17 PM

BRENDA


Hey Sig. My family did both. My mother's side fought for the Union and my French Canadian great grandfather on my dad's fought for the Confederacy.

My mother's mostly Irish arrived in NA because of the potato famine in Ireland.

My dad's dad left Scotland because there was nothing left for him. My grandmother as stated before half-Indian hence being Metis and the French were in Canada for a long time.

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 1:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, see, there you go BRENDA. You're guilty!

AND innocent!

As far as I can tell, people are only guilty of what THEY do, not what their parents (and further back) did.

As it turns out, I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I am going to insist that I came up with this all on my own, but when I discussed this with my (leftist) friends, they pointed me in this direction: Someone more famous than me says the same.






-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:07 PM

1KIKI


I have a problem with the argument. While they say - be the change you wish to see - they also say - WWII wouldn't have been prevented by dumpster diving. Holding an individual personally responsible to address a social ill misses the whole 'social' part of 'social justice'. It's trying to fit an apples solution into an oranges problem.

Ultimately, if you calculate it out far enough, and apply it to everyone, reparations are a good thing. We all come from reasonably classless small primitive societies, and reparations would cause a great levelling.

But that's only one part of the equation, because there would still be an active system of winnowing.

So, completely going past the reparations question, there's still the question of existing justice. And what can we do to create a more just system today, going forward. That question hasn't been addressed.




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:15 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I'm a majority Irish. Where's my INNA reparations?

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Monday, March 20, 2017 5:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I have a problem with the argument.
Which argument? The one that says there should be reparations, or the one that says there shouldn't?

Quote:

While they say - be the change you wish to see - they also say - WWII wouldn't have been prevented by dumpster diving. Holding an individual personally responsible to address a social ill misses the whole 'social' part of 'social justice'. It's trying to fit an apples solution into an oranges problem.
Good argument against individually-applied reparations

Quote:

Ultimately, if you calculate it out far enough, and apply it to everyone, reparations are a good thing. We all come from reasonably classless small primitive societies, and reparations would cause a great levelling.
"Leveling?" Maybe. "Redistribution"? okay. "Reparations?" Pointless.

Quote:

But that's only one part of the equation, because there would still be an active system of winnowing.
Yes.

Quote:

So, completely going past the reparations question, there's still the question of existing justice. And what can we do to create a more just system today, going forward. That question hasn't been addressed.
True. Part of the reason to bring up the "reparations"/ collective guilt question is to show that it's a deflection from establishing a just system. Instead of figuring out how to move forward, we wind up squabbling over the impossible, which is how to bring justice to past generations.

Hey, those people are dead. The time for reparations was then, when they were alive, not now. So I guess one lesson to learn from this whole "reparations" discussion is that since justice delayed really is justice denied, we really need a system that applies justice at the moment, when somebody is being robbed.

One symptom of past exploitation is the ability of a person, family, institution, or society to collect vast sums of wealth. NOBODY is worth a billion dollars, I don't care if you've just found the cure for Alzheimer's or cancer. (You owe your discovery to the discovers who came before, and like "reparations" it is impossible to reward people who are long-since dead.)

Since most wealth is stored in the form of money, or is converted to money in order to purchase something else, and money grants the ability to command labor=power at some point in the future, we should probably look at ALL unfair collections of money. And who commands more money unfairly than banks?

You and I, we work for our money.

Banks? They - literally- create out of thin air what most people have to sweat and slave for. So I suppose the first place to break up unfair stores of wealth is to make the currency devoid of value... maybe guarantee a minimum value (like the FDIC) but wipe out the quadrillions of dollars of "notional value" embodied by hedge funds and speculators. That would immediately wipe out the ability of banks and financiers to command poor cocoa farmers and poor renters everywhere.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 20, 2017 6:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meanwhile ....

Syria shot at Israeli jets which were busy bombing SAA positions. (Israel has been supporting al Qaeda in Syria, BTW.) In retaliation for DARING to apply its anti-aircraft missile defense system ... Syria says it shot down one Israeli war jet and damaged another, out of four attackers ... Israel vows to wipe out Syrian anti-aircraft defense.

Good luck with that, Netanyahu. I hope you have many aircraft shot from the sky.

-----------

At the pre-meeting of the G20 finance ministers in Germany: Mnuchin (Trump appointee) won. There will be NO statement in the communique about promoting global "free trade". Unfortunately, climate change was collateral damage to the globalist power-grab, and was also crossed off the communique.

----------

Tillerson, in the meantime, has just completed a face-to-face meeting with Xi Jingping on the issue of N Korea. You can tell which party takes a meeting more seriously by which leaders or ministers they send: Normally, State Department heads meet with State Department heads (i.e. Foreign Ministers). Rarely does a President or Prime Minister meet with a lesser being, and particularly so with China, which is very protocol=sensitive. But in this case, Xi Jinging met with a lesser being.








-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 20, 2017 12:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The best description of possible Chinese response to a USA border tax that I have read so far

Quote:

On the one hand, recent tensions between China and the US appeared to have been defused following this weekend's visit by US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to Beijing, where it was "all smiles" during his meeting with China's president. With warm words from Xi, Tillerson on Sunday ended his first trip to Asia since taking office, with an agreement to work together with China on North Korea and putting aside trickier issues.
No kidding

Quote:

Furthermore, as Reuters adds, preparatory work for a meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and U.S. President Donald Trump has begun, China's Foreign Ministry said on Monday, after a weekend visit to Beijing by U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. The planned summit between Xi and Trump could happen as soon as next month in the United States.

On the other hand, however, China's government is already preparing for retaliation for what it deems an inevitable first trade war step by the US, and has been seeking advice from its think-tanks and policy advisers on how to counter potential trade penalties from U.S. President Donald Trump, "getting ready for the worst," even as they hope for business-like negotiations Reuters adds. The policy advisers believe the Trump administration is most likely to impose higher tariffs on targeted sectors where China has a big surplus with the United States, such as steel and furniture, or on state-owned firms.

** China could respond with actions such as finding alternative suppliers of agriculture products**

Like Russia
Quote:

** or machinery and manufactured goods, while cutting its exports of consumer staples such as mobile phones or laptops, they said. **
Fewer iPhones? hahahaha! Where I think China has us by the balls is specialty chemicals. Those nasty, stinky, polluting manufacturers. I'm quite often purchasing small amounts of specialty chemicals to use as analytical standards, and it looks to me as if the vast majority are made in China, with only a few made in Germany or the USA.
Quote:

** Other options include imposing tax or other restrictions on big U.S. firms operating in China, or limiting their access to China's fast-growing services sector, they added.

Beijing was a particular target of Trump's rhetoric during last year's election campaign, and officials see some friction as inevitable due to China's large trade surplus, according to several sources involved in the internal discussions. China's State Council Information Office, the government public relations arm, and the Ministry of Commerce did not return requests for comment.**


"There is still room for both sides to resolve problems through co-operation and consultation, rather than just resorting to retaliation," said a policy adviser who spoke on condition of anonymity. "But we should have plans in case things go wrong."

Premier Li Keqiang said last week that Beijing did not want to see a trade war with the United States and urged talks between both sides to achieve common ground. U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin also said last week that the Trump administration did not want trade wars, but that certain trade relationships needed re-examining to make them fairer for U.S. workers.

** No major U.S. measures have been announced, and there were no public indications of Washington's intentions on trade at the weekend when Secretary of State Rex Tillerson visited China.

Meanwhile, maintaining the facade that all is well, Trump is expected to host President Xi Jinping next month.

A glimpse of the uncertain future, however, came on Saturday in a communique after a meeting of finance ministers at the G20 in Germany, which dropped a pledge to keep global trade free and open, acquiescing to an increasingly protectionist United States after the two-day meeting failed to yield a compromise. The sources said China could step up some imports from the United States and boost its investment there to help create more jobs as a goodwill gesture, but would not meekly accept any unilateral U.S. action. **


"We will have contingency plans to cope with the worst policies from Trump," said a second policy adviser. Trump has previously threatened a 45 percent tariff on China's exports and frequently said on the campaign trail that he would label China a currency manipulator, even though Beijing has not been actively weakening the yuan in recent years.

In an interview with Reuters on Feb. 23, he declared China the "grand champions" of currency manipulation. "It's hard to say his views have changed or he has become more pragmatic," said the first adviser. Mnuchin has pledged a more methodical approach to analyzing Beijing's foreign exchange practices.

** Under the three criteria set by the U.S. Treasury to determine whether a country is manipulating its currency for a trade advantage, China only meets one: running a trade surplus of more than $20 billion with the United States. The U.S. Treasury's next report on the issue is due in April. China's surplus with the United States fell by $20.1 billion to $347 billion in 2016, the U.S. Commerce Department said on Tuesday, while Chinese data put it somewhat lower. **

One of Reuters' sources said he thought it unlikely that Trump would label China a currency manipulator. "If he does that, China will let the yuan go, and the yuan will fall sharply," the source said. Weakening the yuan or dumping some of China's massive holdings of U.S Treasuries could be considered only when trade relations deteriorate sharply, the sources said.

Earlier this month, former commerce minister Gao Hucheng said during the annual meeting of parliament that China was not afraid of a trade war, though it hoped to avoid one. "We are willing to deal with it properly, but we are not afraid. Once the U.S. side take certain measures, we will evaluate and analyze such measures, and take actions when necessary," Gao said.

------

Finally, in a parallel report from Axios, the website cites China expert Richard McGregor who lists 5 things he believes Xi wants from Trump in order to maintain cordial relations between the two nations:

** Don't upend the status quo with North Korea: China's worst nightmare is that the regime would collapse and be subsumed by South Korea, which would make for a U.S.-ally on their border. It needs North Korea as a buffer state. Contra Washington conventional wisdom, the Chinese can't just snap their fingers and tell the North Koreans what to do. China and North Korea deeply distrust each other. So the Chinese hope Trump's tough talk is just bluster.

Avoid a confrontation in the South China Sea: Xi will likely deliver to Trump a quiet warning on the South China Sea. During his confirmation hearing, Rex Tillerson told Senators China needed to stop its island building there. The Chinese want Trump to understand they will defend their interests if the U.S. pushes back. (See our Facts Matter on the South China Sea.)

Stick to "One China": Regarding Taiwan, they want Trump to stick with the "One China" policy. Xi was furious when Trump took a call from Taiwan's president, and wouldn't speak with him over the phone until Trump agreed to support the status quo. (See our Facts Matter on the One China policy.)

No trade war: The Chinese, like everyone else, don't know what Trump might do on trade. They are closely following the reports about the tussle within the White House between nationalists (especially Bannon and Wilbur Ross) and the Goldman Sachs wing, led by Trump's chief economic advisor, Gary Cohn. As Axios revealed: trade in automobiles is the big sleeper issue.

The big picture: Xi wants a stable international environment that allows China to continue to develop and accumulate wealth and power. **

UNLIKE RUSSIA, CHINA IS ANGLING TO BECOME THE NEXT WORLD HEGEMON.
Quote:

** They abhor the prospect of military disruptions and interruptions to trade, with Xi going to Davos this year to sell China as an apostle of the open international order to all the folks Bannon would call "globalists." McGregor says China's ideal state for America is "slow and steady bourgeois decline." Anything too chaotic — Trump's MO, basically — hurts China. **

Clearly, point #4 will be the most controversial one in the coming months.



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-20/behind-smiles-china-prepares-
worst-ready-counter-all-us-trade-penalties





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 20, 2017 12:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In a close analogue to the liberation of Aleppo,

Quote:

180,000 people have fled west Mosul since the latest offensive there started on the 19 of February this year.

Hitham is 9. He is from Mosul in Northern Iraq. As the Iraqi forces continue their offensive to re-take the city, the frontline reached his home in the western parts of the city. The fighting eventually drove them away.

There are many like Hitham. Since the offensive to re-take Mosul started in October last year, 330,000 people have fled their homes. A quarter of those have already returned to their houses in neighborhoods damaged by war in the eastern parts of the city. Life there is tough. There is a shortage of clean water. Little healthcare. Schools are yet to open. But is it home.

For Hitham and 180,000 others displaced from the western parts of Mosul, going home is not an option. Fighting continues. As more than eight thousand others that early day in March, he arrived at one of the camps set up to accommodate the growing numbers of people escaping war. The path is muddy. They have fled for hours or days, after weeks of fighting and little to eat, after years under ISIS rule.



https://www.nrc.no/news/2017/march/mosul-a-dangerous-escape/

Where is the MSM - and KRAPO- bleating endlessly about the poor refugees? About the number of civilians killed?

Quote:

Fleeing IS, Mosul's civilians cart out the living and the dead

From a distance, the exhausted Iraqis fleeing parts of Mosul controlled by Islamic State appeared to be pushing their worldly possessions on handcarts.

By the time they reached Reuters journalists it was clear that their cargo was far more precious, and more tragic. One man lifted a grubby, fluffy blanket to reveal the dust and blood-covered body of a child, one of several piled up on the cart.

"This is my son. He is gone," he said, describing how his family's home had been hit by an air strike. Iraqi helicopters have been pounding west Mosul with missiles as its troops push into Islamic State's last holdout in Iraq.

"This happened because of air strikes. These were in their homes and the air strikes killed them," the man said, showing other small bodies, cut by shrapnel or debris, on the cart.


http://in.reuters.com/article/mideast-crisis-iraq-mosul-bodies-idINKBN
16O1ME



About ongoing war crimes?
Quote:

Iraqi Troops Using Indiscriminate Weapons in Fight Against ISIS

Worrying evidence is emerging that fighting against the Islamic State (also known as ISIS) in west Mosul is dirtier and deadlier to civilians than the fight to retake the city’s eastern part.

A citizen journalist posted photos and video of Iraq’s emergency response division, a special police unit, firing inaccurate rockets into west Mosul on February 17. These weapons are commonly known as improvised rocket-assisted munitions (IRAM), and they are inherently indiscriminate.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/03/15/iraqi-troops-using-indiscriminate-
weapons-fight-against-isis


There's no doubt about it: War is hell. Particularly when one side is intent on using civilians as a human shield. ISIL is making a stand against the liberators in the Old City of Mosul.

People in Mosul were not universally against Sunni extremism. ISIL (funded by Qatar) is just one face of that, al Qaeda (backed by Saudi Arabia) is another.

Quote:

According to a recent report a new Sunni insurgency is already taking root in Iraq as the U.S.-led coalition continues to weaken the Islamic State's territorial strongholds, particularly in Mosul. The report, by the Washington D.C.-based Institute for the Study of War, warned that al Qaeda's top leadership will likely capitalize on ISIS's continued losses and attempt to gain influence within splinter militant groups opposed to the Shia-led government of Iraq. Al Qaeda has always remained active in Iraq despite being overshadowed by ISIS in recent years. Al Qaeda chief Ayman al Zawahiri last August urged its Syrian branch to rebuild alliances in Iraq and resume a "long guerrilla warfare."


http://www.nrttv.com/En/birura-details.aspx?Jimare=5314

Focusing on ISIL is just coddling Saudi Arabia's proxy-terrorist army.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 20, 2017 1:03 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ok, I get your angst about Trump. He's a pussy-grabbing racist narcissist who knows next to nothing about anything, and reacts unpredictably whenever his ego is tweaked. He bullshits constantly. Plus, he has small hands. And then ... BUT RUSSIA!.

Ok, now what?

Can we possibly talk about more important/ interesting things now? The USA is in deep deep dept. We owe the entire world's output somewhere between 10-1000X over. I know it's fashionable to think that "debt doesn't matter", but when you use your currency to pay for stuff all over the world, and your currency suddenly drops ... what then? It will be like Venezuela, or worse.

Our foreign policy is in shambles because we have been kowtowing to Saudi Arabia and the banks which hold our petrodollars. Our elected officials have been almost completely corrupted by money. Our economy, the REAL economy, is withered because most of our "money" has flowed into "financials".

We're facing massive environmental challenge.

Worse, we no longer even agree on what our problems are, how can solve them, or whether or not we even SHOULD solve them together because we're so atomized that any additional effort on our part already feels like another sacrifice for a scam that's been pulled on us too many times.

People know that something is wrong, they do. There was the Tea Party, but then it was co-opted. There was Occupy, but it was ignored. Now there is Trump, elected as a populist. This can't go on forever.



"Oh, I looked into this stupid thread. My bad." - sound familiar?

Deflection, stat! Getting a little too hot being a Trump supporter?

How about you post whatever you want and we'll do the same?



Yeah, what G said

---------------------

SIG says I'm a deep state troll.


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Monday, March 20, 2017 1:11 PM

1KIKI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I have a problem with the argument.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Which argument? The one that says there should be reparations, or the one that says there shouldn't?

d'Suoza's argument that invalidates the reparations argument by invalidating the idea of fairness and justice.

Quote:

While they say - be the change you wish to see - they also say - WWII wouldn't have been prevented by dumpster diving. Holding an individual personally responsible to address a social ill misses the whole 'social' part of 'social justice'. It's trying to fit an apples solution into an oranges problem.
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Good argument against individually-applied reparations.


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Ultimately, if you calculate it out far enough, and apply it to everyone, reparations are a good thing. We all come from reasonably classless small primitive societies, and reparations would cause a great levelling.
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"Leveling?" Maybe. "Redistribution"? okay. "Reparations?" Pointless.
I was just noodling on the idea of 'how'. But I think, rather than attempt calculating exacting fractions and amounts recursively into the past, one could shortcut to the end - which is that since we all came from equality, we would return to equality. If reparations is a tool to that end, that would be a good thing. But that's a huge and impossible if.

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But that's only one part of the equation, because there would still be an active system of winnowing.
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Yes.


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So, completely going past the reparations question, there's still the question of existing justice. And what can we do to create a more just system today, going forward. That question hasn't been addressed.
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True. Part of the reason to bring up the "reparations"/ collective guilt question is to show that it's a deflection from establishing a just system. Instead of figuring out how to move forward, we wind up squabbling over the impossible, which is how to bring justice to past generations.

Hey, those people are dead. The time for reparations was then, when they were alive, not now. So I guess one lesson to learn from this whole "reparations" discussion is that since justice delayed really is justice denied, we really need a system that applies justice at the moment, when somebody is being robbed.
You and I, we work for our money.

Banks? They - literally- create out of thin air what most people have to sweat and slave for. So I suppose the first place to break up unfair stores of wealth is to make the currency devoid of value... maybe guarantee a minimum value (like the FDIC) but wipe out the quadrillions of dollars of "notional value" embodied by hedge funds and speculators. That would immediately wipe out the ability of banks and financiers to command poor cocoa farmers and poor renters everywhere.



THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL






Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, March 20, 2017 3:05 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


For the past two years, 1kiki and SIG have been trying to move the focus from Russian global atrocities, to the lies and misinformation they post about America. Now you can add dreamtrove as a third head to the hound of Hades. All three heads fervently tying to keep the truth from escaping out into the light of day. All you three managed to do is put Russia front and center and keep it there.

If you're not into authoritarian rule. Then Russia is a threat to your way of life as well.

---------------------

SIG says I'm a deep state troll.oh me, oh my.


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Monday, March 20, 2017 4:39 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.



I think we broke the Kiki again. She has given up any pretense of telling the truth and is just going to go with raw lies.

Tell me dear, how can I be both "but Putin!" and love him at the same time?

I think if you are going to make sh*t up so blatantly you might as well have some fun and say I hate Firefly too.

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Monday, March 20, 2017 4:51 PM

1KIKI



Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
You anti-American troll, you!




Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, March 20, 2017 9:19 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

or do whatever activities (multiple) restore calm, either by giving back control or by showing that all things shall indeed pass .... even the earth.


You know what "they" say - you can't control events, you can only control your reaction to them.





You think I'm "not calm" and I think you are completely oblivious. You think you are far ahead, and I think you aren't even on the board. NOTHING ever changed by "remaining calm" or another word for it "OBLIVIOUS AND USELESS" History is made by the passionate and the angry, change almost always comes from violence. Because people have to be hit over the head to get ANYTHING...


Btw, I'm no more stressed out than anyone else, so I don't know what the fuck you are rambling about. EVERYONE THAT IS NOT OBLIVIOUS HATES SOME ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES. We ALL want to be somewhere else, or doing something else. Yer lying if you say you don't.

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Monday, March 20, 2017 9:24 PM

1KIKI


Boring. Pointless.

putting you back on ignore




Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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