REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Trump shared classified information with Russian officials

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Monday, October 23, 2023 22:22
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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The problem is that Trump has an appetite for chaos, while Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, do not.
Yes, because control by oligarchy is so much more preferable.

Frankly, the Dems and Repubs are gorram horrible, and our policies are so self-destructive that their preferred path will only end in tears, and worse. I would rather have a few feathers fly and hear some squawking than have things continue as they have been. We need change. And change isn't always safe or easy - just look at colonial America.

Trump is not the banner-holder that I want. But compared to the people, policies, and institutions that have ossified in DC I prefer Trump. If he can't drain the swamp, let him at least stir it up a little. If he can get rid of deep state asshats and self-dealing politicians, THEN he can leave office. Drain the fucking swamp first.

There are several things wrong with your "just look at colonial America". George Washington, richest man in North America, was the general. His army officers were the elite of the colonies. His army was only thousands because the millions of colonists would not fight on his side. The top 1% have been running it from the beginning. The first pass at a constitution, The Articles of Confederation, was replaced because the top 1% did not have enough control. The Whisky Rebellion had George Washington stomp on the 99% who won't pay the top 1%. The top 1%, the slave-owning plantation elite, went to war with the rest of the country to hold on to their wealth. The Yankee top 1% went to war to slap them down and take the wealth for themselves.

The 1% have always run the country. The other 99% can't concentrate for years at a time on fixing that problem. It never goes away because 1% know what they give up if they lose power and the 99% have amnesia about what is happening. Just wait a few months, with enough worthless entertainment or heavy drinking, and the 99% will forget again and again. Been happening for centuries. The 99% are very dependable in that way. Do I have to remind you that Trump is of the 1% and he won't be keeping his promises to the 99%?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I ASKED YOU WHAT YOU THINK. DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY THAT MEMBERS OF ANY CONGRESS WOULD IMPEACH ANY PRESIDENT BASED OFF OF GOSSIP THAT IS AVAILABLE.

YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Seriously Second. WTF is wrong with you?

If Congress can find a plausible reason, it sure would impeach Trump. Congress wants it to look like Trump had it coming, getting what he deserves. They don't want it to appear to be like they are the trigger happy cop and Trump is the 12 year old child holding a toy gun when they shoot him down. Do I need to mention that Trump is in his second childhood?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_childhood

By the way, Putin is masterfully trolling the USA:

Trump may or may not have a recording system in the White House, but Vladimir Putin says he's willing to provide a record of last week's meeting between Trump and Russia's foreign minister.
www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/world/europe/trump-putin-russia.html

“If the U.S. administration finds this appropriate, we’re ready to provide a record of the conversation between Lavrov and Trump to the U.S. Senate and Congress,” the Russian president said. The Russian word for “record” can refer to an audio recording, but the Interfax news agency quoted a Kremlin aide, Yuri V. Ushakov, as telling reporters that Moscow had in its possession a written record of the conversation, not a recording.

Officials in Washington have said that Mr. Trump disclosed to Mr. Lavrov highly classified information provided by Israeli intelligence about a planned terrorist operation by the Islamic State extremist group.

Mr. Putin dismissed that claim, saying, “It’s hard to imagine what else these people who generate such nonsense and rubbish can dream up next.”

You have to give Putin credit: he sure knows how to troll us. I can hardly wait for the first Republican in Congress to take him up on his offer.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:21 PM

THGRRI


This is all very sad.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
If Congress can find a plausible reason, it sure would impeach Trump. Congress wants it to look like Trump had it coming, getting what he deserves. They don't want it to appear to be like they are the trigger happy cop and Trump is the 12 year old child holding a toy gun when they shoot him down. Do I need to mention that Trump is in his second childhood?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_childhood

By the way, Putin is masterfully trolling the USA:

Trump may or may not have a recording system in the White House, but Vladimir Putin says he's willing to provide a record of last week's meeting between Trump and Russia's foreign minister.
www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/world/europe/trump-putin-russia.html

“If the U.S. administration finds this appropriate, we’re ready to provide a record of the conversation between Lavrov and Trump to the U.S. Senate and Congress,” the Russian president said. The Russian word for “record” can refer to an audio recording, but the Interfax news agency quoted a Kremlin aide, Yuri V. Ushakov, as telling reporters that Moscow had in its possession a written record of the conversation, not a recording.

Officials in Washington have said that Mr. Trump disclosed to Mr. Lavrov highly classified information provided by Israeli intelligence about a planned terrorist operation by the Islamic State extremist group.

Mr. Putin dismissed that claim, saying, “It’s hard to imagine what else these people who generate such nonsense and rubbish can dream up next.”

You have to give Putin credit: he sure knows how to troll us. I can hardly wait for the first Republican in Congress to take him up on his offer.







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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:38 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I ASKED YOU WHAT YOU THINK. DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY THAT MEMBERS OF ANY CONGRESS WOULD IMPEACH ANY PRESIDENT BASED OFF OF GOSSIP THAT IS AVAILABLE.


If Congress can find a plausible reason, it sure would impeach Trump.



Not what you said and not what I asked.

Try again.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 6:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I ASKED YOU WHAT YOU THINK. DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY THAT MEMBERS OF ANY CONGRESS WOULD IMPEACH ANY PRESIDENT BASED OFF OF GOSSIP THAT IS AVAILABLE.


If Congress can find a plausible reason, it sure would impeach Trump.



Not what you said and not what I asked.

Try again.

It must be fine because the Republicans did that to Bill Clinton. I didn't think they had a solid case, since it was all gossip. The public didn't think so either. The result was that Clinton's approval ratings soared afterwards. I wouldn't want Trump's approval ratings to soar so I don't want Trump impeached for what is essentially gossip. But the way Trump is getting more erratic day by day, he'll do something that is criminal, if he hasn't yet.


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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:33 PM

6STRINGJOKER


The correct answer is No. Not under any circumstances.

Bill blew his load all over Monica's dress when I was still in highschool. I had nothing at all to do with any of that.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
The correct answer is No. Not under any circumstances.

The correct answer is Yes. An impeachment is not a criminal trial, although politicians want to pretend it is to avoid responsibility with dimwitted voters for a completely political decision. There is always the empty talk of justice and evidence. An impeachment is a power play, exactly the same as an election. One side wins that has the votes to match up with the Constitutional requirements. One side imposes their values on the other, exactly the same as any election and completely unlike any criminal trial, at least any normal trial where none of the jury members are relatives, friends, or employees of the accused or the prosecutor. In an impeachment everybody making the final decision is related to the accused.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:01 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I never actually looked up the definition to the word until you said that Second.

Quote:

1.
to accuse (a public official) before an appropriate tribunal of misconduct in office.
2.
Chiefly Law. to challenge the credibility of:
to impeach a witness.
3.
to bring an accusation against.
4.
to call in question; cast an imputation upon:
to impeach a person's motives.
5.
to call to account.



That's all it is? As you said, it certainly isn't presented as that, is it?

I've changed my mind. 100% in fact.


I've had to listen to the last 4 definitions thrown around by the Left and the MSM for the last 5 months. By all means, please impeach the President. Maybe one way or another we can get to the bottom of this then and we won't still be on this Russian narrative 4 years from now.

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Thursday, May 18, 2017 5:35 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


And now we have Mueller taking over the investigation on the Russian Hack. So I hope that he calls for Comey's memos and holds them close to the vest. Those memos
are his Ace-in-the-Hole. When he gets a hold of those greedy bastards that sold their souls to Russia, he can question them from a position of strength; since he, and not everyone in the world, will know what's in those memos.

Of course, the White House and Trump will deny, deny, deny...but once he gets all the information, he'll have them choking on their own words. Comey should not testify until the Special Hangman has had a chance to unravel this mess.

Little-known facts such as these:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-knew-flynn-was-under
-investigation-before-he-came-to-white-house/ar-BBBfBzO?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp


Quote:

Mr. Flynn’s disclosure, on Jan. 4, was first made to the transition team’s chief lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, who is now the White House counsel. That conversation, and another one two days later between Mr. Flynn’s lawyer and transition lawyers, shows that the Trump team knew about the investigation of Mr. Flynn far earlier than has been previously reported.


It was also reported by the NY Times. Of course, there are many misinformed people that believe the Right-Wing hype of the MSM - the Mainstream Media. The Right-Wingers fall for the crap that newspapers and news outlets, like the Times, make shit up. Yeah, that's a problem! So, Trump and company are the poor little rich boys who are victims to the all-powerful and all-knowing media. So, let's see....when the MSM reports on things like Trump's wealth. Well, naturally you believe that...since he has all this money. Of course they're not lying about that.
That, of course, is factual.

One question...How can you guys tell when the MSM is lying about Trump's wealth?
I need to borrow some money.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

What if Hillary had done what Trump has done?
Hillary would do worse. Instead of cooperating with Russia to defeat an actual threat - ISIS - she'd be escalating confrontation with Russia and jonesing for nuclear war.

But you don't care about that.

Jason Chaffetz, the finger-in-the-wind Chair of the House Oversight Committee, has requested all of former FBI Director James Comey’s records detailing interactions with Trump. Cathy McMorris Rogers from the House GOP leadership backed Chaffetz’s letter and so did Speaker Paul Ryan.

It’s an extremely modest move, but it’s a significant one. The policy of shutting down all oversight or investigation is no longer tenable. And once Republicans start tugging on the string, it’s not clear they can stop the whole sweater from unraveling. Here comes President Pence.

As Ross Douthat writes, if you “read the things that these people, members of his inner circle, his personally selected appointees, say daily through anonymous quotations to the press” it’s clear that “they have no respect for him, indeed they seem to palpate with contempt for him, and to regard their mission as equivalent to being stewards for a syphilitic emperor.”
www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/opinion/25th-amendment-trump.html


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Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:47 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Were the Comey memos signed by a Notary that was actually in the meetings? Unless they were, although they might be interesting to read, I don't think anybody would actually call them the Ace in the Hole.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 4:03 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Really!? Okay, I'll bite.

The Memo establishes the mindset of one individual, Comey. But it also would produce nothing more than a "he said/he said." Comey's word against the president's. Granted, I'll give you that one. Nothing can be proved, no one can say that Trump merely wanted to exchange baking recipes with Comey.

Mueller could only ask questions regarding fact, not opinion.

Mueller: Mr. Vice President, besides yourself was there any other persons in the Oval Office on the day in question?

Pence: Yes, there was the president, Director Comey and AG Sessions.

Mueller: What happened next? Did there come a time when the president asked you to leave the room?

Pence: Yes

Mueller: Did you find that normal or did you find it a bit odd?

Pence: Normal

Mueller: Normal? So the president has done this before? When and with whom?

If Pence answers: Odd

Mueller's next question would be: How so? What did you find odd?

I don't know anything because I wasn't there. Just two men know the truth. It's Mueller's job to gather the facts and present them to Congress so as to determine
the truth of the matter. If it is that Trump, Pence and Sessions tell the truth, and that truth is that Trump did not obstruct justice. Well then, the matter will be solved in the president's favor. Nothing to see here, move along. (And Trump could stick out his middle finger at the naysayers).

Now I'm not a criminal trial attorney, but I am leaning one way.....towards Trump being guilty as charged (figure of speech, I know nothing has been proven yet).
But here's why I'm leaning toward GUILTY.

1- Trump has been known to stretch the truth a bit many, many times. (the whole birther fiasco; the wiretap bullshit)
2- The Flynn controversy, they knew he was under investigation, and the hits just keep on coming
3- the Tax returns

And that's just my short list. Every time Trump opens his yapper, various kinds of horse and bull manure appears instead of hot air. But let's say that all of the above are just gossip and hearsay. Granted, the Special Counsel must gather sufficient evidence to make his case. And from what I understand, Mueller is trying this as a criminal investigation. What are the rules? I don't know exactly, but here are some rules:

Quote:

A criminal case is brought by the local, state or federal government in response to a suspected violation of law and seeks a fine, a jail sentence or both.


If Mueller gathers enough evidence to bring Impeachment proceedings, which is a long and political process...

Quote:

First, the House of Representatives votes on one or more articles of impeachment. If at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached — which essentially means being indicted. (In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee considered the matter first.)
Next, the proceedings move to the Senate, which holds a trial overseen by the chief justice of the Supreme Court.
A team of lawmakers from the House, known as managers, play the role of prosecutors. The president has defense lawyers, and the Senate serves as the jury.
If at least two-thirds of the senators find the president guilty, he is removed, and the vice president takes over as president.



So talk of impeachment is just that, talk, well for now at least. But Mueller will likely question the parties involved and hold off on using the memos until after he has finished conducting his depositions. And, once he has finished gathering all the facts in the case. I would imagine that Mueller would use the memos as materially factual based upon Comey's prior use of said memos, or how he used these
memos in other cases. That's just a guess, but he would need to establish use of the memos as circumstantial evidence.

Basically: You walk into a room, you turn on the lights and see that the floor is wet; you look in the hallway and see the maintenance man walking around with a bucket and mop. So you can assume that he was just in the room and mopped the floor.

Of course, it would be a little more complicated than that.


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Were the Comey memos signed by a Notary that was actually in the meetings? Unless they were, although they might be interesting to read, I don't think anybody would actually call them the Ace in the Hole.


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Friday, May 19, 2017 5:33 AM

6STRINGJOKER


So yeah, not an Ace in the Hole.

I don't think anybody really respects Comey. That includes Democrats, although many might not admit it at this point in time, because "Strategy". Everybody has been a fair-weather fan of his for several years now. Whichever way the wind blows. I'd say he did it to himself, but I don't really believe that he was acting of his own accord. I think there were people pulling his strings. I just can't figure out why.

If Trump is going to get the boot, they're going to need a lot more than memos of a disgruntled ex-employee Comey to do it. He's the biggest scapegoat we've seen this century. At least the biggest since Bartman was blamed for the Cubs losing the 2003 National League Championship.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 7:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

If Trump is going to get the boot, they're going to need a lot more than memos of a disgruntled ex-employee Comey to do it. He's the biggest scapegoat we've seen this century. At least the biggest since Bartman was blamed for the Cubs losing the 2003 National League Championship.

You are assuming that Trump won't lose more ball games in the future. Trump seems to have a knack for making things that should be easy for him much, much harder.

His trip to Israel will be, at best, a delicate clean-up operation.

That’s because Trump has compromised the Israeli intelligence services, backtracked on promises he made to the Israelis over altering US settlement policy and moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, and wandered into a decades-old debate over the sovereignty of the holy city itself.

Then there is the sad fact that Trump doesn’t understand how to negotiate with foreign powers. Who knows what he will give away on his 9 day overseas trip? Who knows how mad he will make his allies in Congress and overseas? Trump may lose 9 games in a row before he returns to DC.
https://hbr.org/2016/04/what-donald-trump-doesnt-understand-about-nego
tiation

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Friday, May 19, 2017 8:03 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I can't see the future. Nobody wins all the games.

I just don't think he's under .500 right now.


I'm not happy about some of the REAL issues and choices that he's made so far, but I'm still not buying into any of this Russia narrative. Let's see some actual proof that isn't circumstantial or based off of anonymous sources or angry fired people please.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 8:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I can't see the future. Nobody wins all the games.

I just don't think he's under .500 right now.


I'm not happy about some of the REAL issues and choices that he's made so far, but I'm still not buying into any of this Russia narrative. Let's see some actual proof that isn't circumstantial or based off of anonymous sources or angry fired people please.

www.gocomics.com/tomtoles/2017/05/19


Trump mindlessly, impulsively dismisses the FBI director. He then surrounds it with a bodyguard of lies — attributing the dismissal to a Justice Department recommendation — which his staff goes out and parrots. Only to be undermined and humiliated when the boss contradicts them within 48 hours.

Result? Layers of falsehoods giving the impression of an elaborate cover-up — in the absence of a crime. At least Nixon was trying to quash a burglary and associated felonies. Here we don’t even have a body, let alone a smoking gun. Trump insists there’s no there there, but acts as if the there is everywhere.

I forgot that Trump did the same thing again: Trumped divulged classified information to the Russians. Once again, the cover-up far exceeded the crime. Trump had three top officials come out and declare the disclosure story false. The next morning, Trump tweeted he was entirely within his rights to reveal what he revealed, thereby verifying the truth of the story. His national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, floundered his way through a news conference, trying to reconcile his initial denial with Trump’s subsequent contradiction. It was a sorry sight.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 19, 2017 9:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-
highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.3bcae2e412a9


The usual unnamed officials, anonymous sources, and undisclosed reports.

And the caveat in the original WaPo story; "As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law."

There's not much 'there', there.




A true black swan event . 1kiki displays signs of cogent, rational thought.


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Friday, May 19, 2017 9:33 AM

THGRRI


If Trump goes down, he may take Pence with him. In which case it would be Paul Ryan who would take over.






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Friday, May 19, 2017 10:30 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Result? Layers of falsehoods giving the impression of an elaborate cover-up — in the absence of a crime. At least Nixon was trying to quash a burglary and associated felonies. Here we don’t even have a body, let alone a smoking gun. Trump insists there’s no there there, but acts as if the there is everywhere.

I forgot that Trump did the same thing again: Trumped divulged classified information to the Russians. Once again, the cover-up far exceeded the crime. Trump had three top officials come out and declare the disclosure story false. The next morning, Trump tweeted he was entirely within his rights to reveal what he revealed, thereby verifying the truth of the story. His national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, floundered his way through a news conference, trying to reconcile his initial denial with Trump’s subsequent contradiction. It was a sorry sight.



All the more reason that I really believe that there is no "there" there...

Humor me for a moment Second...

Take a step back and look at what is happening here. How many people have been ousted or have voluntarily left since Trump took office? How many career politicians, even GOP politicians working for Trump have been embarrassed?

He wants to prove that the MSM is fake news. What better way than to behave as if he IS guilty and flaunt that and provoke the media and the Democrats and even the GOP and cultivate this firestorm to the point where people are demanding justice with pitchforks on the steps of the White House only to lower the curtain and show that there was nothing going on at all...?

What an embarrassment for so many politicians, especially the GOP politicians that acted against him that are not going to be voted back in 2 years from now. What an EXTREME embarrassment and possibly a career killer for people like Rachel Maddow who's gone all in on this Russian narrative.


When I was young, I would drive around with cigarette tobacco rolled up to look like a joint, and sometimes with a bottle of soda in a brown bag and smoke and drink in front of cops that I pulled up next to. My plates were legal. My lights all worked. My license was up to date and I had insurance. I was provoking a response from them, and in the end there was nothing they could do about it because I wasn't doing anything wrong.


I could be wrong about this, but this is what I really believe is going on.

Nobody would act the way that he is acting unless they were beyond reproach.

Unless you are right and Trump is either crazy or senile or just stupid or all of the above....

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Friday, May 19, 2017 10:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

There are several things wrong with your "just look at colonial America". George Washington, richest man in North America, was the general. His army officers were the elite of the colonies. His army was only thousands because the millions of colonists would not fight on his side. The top 1% have been running it from the beginning.- SECOND
Actually, SECOND, it is the PERFECT analogy to what is happening today. I never said that Trump was a man of the people. I HAVE posted more than once that I thought he represented a DIFFERENT 0.01% than the one currently in control. Let's call them "the nationalists" (Trump) versus the globalists/ deep state (Hillary and parts of the alphabet agencies). See? George Washington was a nationalist elite, fighting the British Empire (globalists). Not everyone was "for" the revolution. There were many people among the revolutionaries who were intemperate, passionate, quixotic even.

Now.

Let me repeat what I've said about Trump at various times, all of which I still believe to be true ....

Bullshitter, with a slippery view of "the truth"
Always wanting to configure situations so that he, himself, is the only negotiator
Loose cannon, changeable goals
Naive (some of his policies don't mesh with other of his policies like Iran/ Syria v Russia, or infrastructural repair and tax cuts v budgetary restraint)
Not able the make the economy recover
In fact, unable to keep MOST of his domestic promises
Representing a different faction of the elite than those currently in power, not a man of the people

I knew all that before the election, and posted so. And yet .... despite his many, varied, and fundamental flaws*, I still found him preferable to Hillary. Why do you suppose that is???

And I still find him preferable, because right now, many of the American deep state (ie treasonous globalists) are squealing. And the more they make up anti-Trump/Russian shit to throw against the American psyche to see what sticks, the more I think he's on the right track. Every flurry of NEW! ANONYMOUS! allegations just make me wonder what else Trump did to piss off the deep-state asshats.

* Which do not include pussy-grabber, "golden showers" client, or Russian pawn

=========

BTW, I found your exchange with SIX to be revealing. SIX asked you, multiple times, what YOU YOURSELF thought of the Democratic hyper-partisanship, and these were your answers:

Quote:

The problem is that Trump ...
If Congress can ...
It must be fine because the Republicans ...



I've said more than once that you never post YOUR opinion or YOUR thoughts on anything, you just go to your favorite websites and post what someone else thinks. Why is that?





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Friday, May 19, 2017 10:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And now we have Mueller taking over the investigation on the [alleged] Russian Hack. So I hope that he calls for Comey's memos [unprovable allegations] and holds them close to the vest. Those memos are his Ace-in-the-Hole. [HAHAHAHA!] When he gets a hold of those greedy bastards that sold their souls to Russia, he can question them from a position of strength; since he, and not everyone in the world, will know what's in those memos.
Of course, the White House and Trump will deny, deny, deny...but once he gets all the information, he'll have them choking on their own words. Comey should not testify until the Special Hangman has had a chance to unravel this mess.- SHINY

SHINY, I have a personal question: How old are you? I'm just trying to figure our how far back your memory goes, so that I don't refer to things that are outside of your experience.

Quote:

It was also reported by the NY Times. Of course, there are many misinformed people that believe the Right-Wing hype of the MSM - the Mainstream Media. The Right-Wingers fall for the crap that newspapers and news outlets, like the Times, make shit up.
Of course they do! It has been historically and provably demonstrated time and time again, and not just 100 years ago but within the living memory of almost everyone here. And yet, you continue to deny known fact.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Friday, May 19, 2017 11:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I could be wrong about this, but this is what I really believe is going on.

Nobody would act the way that he is acting unless they were beyond reproach.

Unless you are right and Trump is either crazy or senile or just stupid or all of the above....

How about this explanation: Trump needs Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to pay for deporting 11,000,000 illegals, a Texas/Mexico wall, and sundry items that are on Trump's wish list yet Ryan and McConnell have no interest in owning these items. It's Trump's list, not their list. Ryan and McConnell would pay for all these gifts, except Trump keeps playing pranks on them. If Trump goes in this direction, the Republican leadership will lose patience with him. Once that happens, Trump won't get any expensive presents he wanted for Christmas for the next four years because he has been naughty.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 19, 2017 11:24 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I could be wrong about this, but this is what I really believe is going on.

Nobody would act the way that he is acting unless they were beyond reproach.

Unless you are right and Trump is either crazy or senile or just stupid or all of the above....

How about this explanation: Trump needs Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to pay for deporting 11,000,000 illegals, a Texas/Mexico wall, and sundry items that are on Trump's wish list yet Ryan and McConnell have no interest in owning these items. It's Trump's list, not their list. Ryan and McConnell would pay for all these gifts, except Trump keeps playing pranks on them. If Trump goes in this direction, the Republican leadership will lose patience with him. Once that happens, Trump won't get any expensive presents he wanted for Christmas for the next four years because he has been naughty.



Completely besides the point again, but if I'm right I don't think Ryan or McConnell are very long for the political world. Ryan in particular was lucky he's still got a job.

I don't necessarily think what I'm suggesting is happening is a good thing... only that I believe it is what is happening. If I'm right the Left will go silent, at least for a while, there will be nuclear fallout in the MSM, and the entire GOP will fall in step with Trump.

Bigger picture Second. I think you're all being played.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 11:28 AM

THGRRI


I see SIG is trying to rewrite her history regarding Trump.






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Friday, May 19, 2017 11:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Completely besides the point again, but if I'm right I don't think Ryan or McConnell are very long for the political world. Ryan in particular was lucky he's still got a job.

I don't necessarily think what I'm suggesting is happening is a good thing... only that I believe it is what is happening. If I'm right the Left will go silent, at least for a while, there will be nuclear fallout in the MSM, and the entire GOP will fall in step with Trump.

Bigger picture Second. I think you're all being played.

I think you are wrong. There are only a few people Trump needs to please: two are the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority leader. If Ryan and McConnell die or lose their jobs, Trump still has to please the next Speaker and the Majority leader. All this crap about Trump in media is annoying the hell of Ryan and McConnell. It is not the media's fault, it is Trump's fault. Ryan and McConnell know to blame Trump for stirring up a storm in the media, which makes voters uneasy. When the voters are uneasy, it is a problem for Ryan and McConnell. They want it to stop, and if it means Pence replaces Trump because he has no self-control, then the Speaker and the Majority leader will do that unpleasant deed.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 19, 2017 1:26 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I doubt it. But you keep holding out hope that it happens.

Contrary to popular belief in your bubbles there are a lot of people right now who would be pretty pissed off if Trump was ousted with no evidence. All talk and no evidence. He might be a dick and twitter his mind too much, but there's no evidence he's done anything with Russia yet. Even you admitted as much a few posts back.

I think they're smart enough to know that. That's why they're straddling the line, so they can still jump to whatever side is safe when the shit comes down. Maybe Trump's waiting for them to come down off the fence and rally against him. He did promise to drain the swamp. That includes the GOP.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 3:24 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:


Contrary to popular belief in your bubbles there are a lot of people right now who would be pretty pissed off if Trump was ousted with no evidence. All talk and no evidence.



Wow Jack, get a clue. You're just like Trump in that you keep saying things off the top of your head that reveal nothing but ignorance. The circumstantial evidence against Trump grows with each passing day.

Circumstantial evidence is known as indirect evidence. It is distinguished from direct evidence, which, if believed, proves the existence of a particular fact without any inference or presumption required. Circumstantial evidence relates to a series of facts other than the particular fact sought to be proved. The party offering circumstantial evidence argues that this series of facts, by reason and experience, is so closely associated with the fact to be proved that the fact to be proved may be inferred simply from the existence of the circumstantial evidence.

I am still not saying the verdict is in but it doesn't look good.






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Friday, May 19, 2017 4:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Contrary to popular belief in your bubbles there are a lot of people right now who would be pretty pissed off if Trump was ousted with no evidence. All talk and no evidence. He might be a dick and twitter his mind too much, but there's no evidence he's done anything with Russia yet. Even you admitted as much a few posts back.

Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office, “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job.” Trump said, “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.” Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.” http://bit.ly/2q1HHwf I think maybe Trump spoke too soon.

Trump probably didn't realize that the Russians were already keenly familiar with Comey since the FBI is America's primary counterintelligence agency — that is, the agency that tracks down Russian spies. So they know perfectly well he's not crazy and not a nut job. I'll bet they also knew perfectly well that firing Comey was only going to increase the pressure on Trump over Russia. That's because they aren't crazy and aren't nut jobs either.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 19, 2017 5:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And now we have Mueller taking over the investigation on the [alleged] Russian Hack. So I hope that he calls for Comey's memos [unprovable allegations] and holds them close to the vest. Those memos are his Ace-in-the-Hole. [HAHAHAHA!] When he gets a hold of those greedy bastards that sold their souls to Russia, he can question them from a position of strength; since he, and not everyone in the world, will know what's in those memos.
Of course, the White House and Trump will deny, deny, deny...but once he gets all the information, he'll have them choking on their own words. Comey should not testify until the Special Hangman has had a chance to unravel this mess.- SHINY

SHINY, I have a personal question: How old are you? I'm just trying to figure our how far back your memory goes, so that I don't refer to things that are outside of your experience.


SGG is old enough to remember clearly when Nixon was Impeached, which was.....what year exactly?



Another poster claimed that if Trump took Pence with him, then Ryan would be in charge. Really??

To get clued in, some people should review the Nixon/Agnew/Ford transition. The first ever selection of the next un-elected President in U.S. history. Just think, Pence and Trump could select DOOMberg or Palin, or Guliani to be the next President.

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Friday, May 19, 2017 6:40 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

To get clued in, some people should review the Nixon/Agnew/Ford transition. The first ever selection of the next un-elected President in U.S. history. Just think, Pence and Trump could select DOOMberg or Palin, or Guliani to be the next President.

Agnew pleaded guilty to tax evasion for the years before becoming VP. His fine was only $10,000, and he didn't pay the $268,482 taxes until private citizens sued him in 1983, ten years after he resigned. Trump, too, might plead guilty to tax evasion if his old tax returns are subpoenaed to determine if he has some sneaky underhanded financial ties to Russia. Robert Mueller won't ignore any tax crimes he discovers accidentally, even if the crime has nothing to do with Russia or the election. There is a crime to be found or else Trump won't be so squirrelly about his tax returns.
www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/trump-tax-march/523116/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 3:03 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Wow Jack, get a clue. You're just like Trump in that you keep saying things off the top of your head that reveal nothing but ignorance. The circumstantial evidence against Trump grows with each passing day.



You didn't read the rest of the conversation. Read the rest of the conversation.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

]Originally posted by THGRRI: I see SIG is trying to rewrite her history regarding Trump.


When I find my posts and quote them here, will I finally get the apology I so richly deserve from you? Will you finally admit you're a know-nothing lying troll?

Of course not,

That's because you're a lying, know-nothing troll.

Not my most immediate project ever, but here's a hint: Even SECOND, who is about as rabidly anti-Trump as one can imagine, didn't challenge me on that post, and the reason why is that she reads with comprehension. Unlike... er.... you.






-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The circumstantial evidence against Trump grows with each passing day. - THUGR
The circumstantial evidence against Trump is about as solid as the circumstantial evidence against Iraq. Various allegations boil up but then evaporate ... the narrative is a constantly-shifting kaleidescope, none of which is meant to be remembered, exactly, or to represent anything real. It's just meant to dazzle you with images.

I'm really surprised that people who SHOULD BE old enough to know better ... who certainly remember the lies that got us into destroying Libya, and Iraq, and Panama, Yugoslavia, and Vietnam (to name a few) still swallow whole everything that the security state spits out which the MSM dutifully regurgitates. If you've experienced all of these things and presumably remember what happened and learned from it, how can you be so anchorless and rudderless? It seems to me that the press pounds on one thing one day, then switches tacks and pounds on another thing another day and there you are.... dutifully forgetting what you heard the day, or the month, or the decade before; following the latest pronouncements breathlessly without independent judgment or memory.


Well, I'm going to pull a SECOND, and quote some of the media here, since you seem to value it so highly ...,


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Just consider the accusations that have been leveled at the president:

He has betrayed the Constitution, which he swore to uphold.
He has committed treason by befriending Russia and other enemies of America.
He has subjugated America’s interests to Moscow.
He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones, like his previous marriage and divorce.

President Donald Trump?

No, President John F. Kennedy.

What lots of Americans don’t realize, because it was kept secret from them for so long, is that what Trump has been enduring from the national-security establishment, the mainstream press, and the American right-wing for his outreach to, or “collusion with,” Russia pales compared to what Kennedy had to endure for committing the heinous “crime” of reaching out to Russia and the rest of the Soviet Union in a spirit of peace and friendship.

They hated him for it. They abused him. They insulted him. They belittled him. They called him naïve. They said he was a traitor.

All of the nasties listed above, plus more, were contained in an advertisement and a flier that appeared in Dallas on the morning of November 22, 1963, the day that Kennedy was assassinated. They can be read here and here.

Ever since then, some people have tried to make it seem like the advertisement and flier expressed only the feelings of extreme right-wingers in Dallas. That’s nonsense. They expressed the deeply held convictions of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, the conservative movement, and many people within the mainstream media and Washington establishment.

In June 1963, Kennedy threw down the gauntlet in a speech he delivered at American University, now entitled the “Peace Speech.” It was one of the most remarkable speeches ever delivered by an American president. It was broadcast all across the communist Soviet Union, the first time that had ever been done.

In the speech, Kennedy announced that he was bringing an end to the Cold War and the mindset of hostility toward Russia and the rest of the Soviet Union that the U.S. national-security establishment had inculcated in the minds of the American people ever since the end of World War II.

It was a radical notion and, as Kennedy well understood, a very dangerous one insofar as he was concerned. The Cold War against America’s World War II partner and ally had been used to convert the United States from a limited-government republic to a national-security state, one consisting of a vast, permanent military establishment, the CIA, and the NSA, along with their broad array of totalitarian-like powers, such as assassination, regime change, coups, invasions, torture, surveillance, and the like. Everyone was convinced that the Cold War — and the so-called threat from the international communist conspiracy that was supposedly based in Russia — would last forever, which would naturally mean permanent and ever-increasing largess for what Kennedy’s predecessor, President Dwight Eisenhower, had called the “military-industrial complex.”

Suddenly, Kennedy was upending the Cold War apple cart by threatening to establish a relationship of friendship and peaceful coexistence with Russia, the rest of the Soviet Union, and Cuba.

Kennedy knew full well that his actions were considered by some to be a grave threat to “national security.” After all, don’t forget that it was Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him ousted from power by the CIA and presumably targeted for assassination as part of that regime-change operation. It was Cuban leader Fidel Castro’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that made him the target of Pentagon and CIA regime-change operations, including through invasion, assassination, and sanctions. It was Congo leader’s Patrice Lamumba’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him targeted for assassination by the CIA. It would be Chilean President Salvador Allende’s outreach to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship that got him targeted in a CIA-instigated coup in Chile that resulted in Allende’s death.

Kennedy wasn’t dumb. He knew what he was up against. He had heard Eisenhower warn the American people in his Farewell Address about the dangers to their freedom and democratic way of life posed by the military establishment. After Kennedy had read the novel Seven Days in May, which posited the danger of a military coup in America, he asked friends in Hollywood to make it into a movie to serve as a warning to the American people. In the midst of the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the Pentagon and the CIA were exerting extreme pressure on Kennedy to bomb and invade Cuba, his brother Bobby told a Soviet official with whom he was negotiating that the president was under a severe threat of being ousted in a coup. And, of course, Kennedy was fully mindful of what had happened to Arbenz, Lamumba, and Castro for doing what Kennedy was now doing — reaching out to the Soviets in a spirit of friendship.

In the eyes of the national-security establishment, one simply did not reach out to Russia, Cuba, or any other “enemy” of America. Doing so, in their eyes, made Kennedy an appeaser, betrayer, traitor, and a threat to “national security.”

Kennedy didn’t stop with his Peace Speech. He also began negotiating a treaty with the Soviets to end above-ground nuclear testing, an action that incurred even more anger and ire within the Pentagon and the CIA. Yes, that’s right — they said that “national security” depended on the U.S. government’s continuing to do what they object to North Korea doing today — conducting nuclear tests, both above ground and below ground.

Kennedy mobilized public opinion to overcome fierce opposition in the military, CIA, Congress, and the Washington establishment to secure passage of his Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

He then ordered a partial withdrawal of troops from Vietnam, and told close aides that he would order a complete pull-out after winning the 1964 election. In the eyes of the U.S. national-security establishment, leaving Vietnam subject to a communist takeover would pose a grave threat to national security here in the United States.

Worst of all, from the standpoint of the national-security establishment, Kennedy began secret personal negotiations with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban leader Fidel Castro to bring an end to America’s Cold War against them. That was considered to be a grave threat to “national security” as well as a grave threat to all the military and intelligence largess that depended on the Cold War.

By this time, Kennedy’s war with the national-security establishment was in full swing. He had already vowed to tear the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds after its perfidious conduct in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. By this time, he had also lost all confidence in the military after it proposed an all-out surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union, much as Japan had done at Pearl Harbor, after the infamous plan known as Operation Northwoods, which proposed terrorist attacks and plane hijackings carried out by U.S. agents posing as Cuban communists, so as to provide a pretext for invading Cuba, and after the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the military establishment accused him of appeasement and treason for agreeing not to ever invade Cuba again.

What Kennedy didn’t know was that his “secret” negotiations with the Soviet and Cuban communists weren’t so secret after all. As it turns out, it was a virtual certainty that the CIA (or NSA) was listening in on telephone conversations of Cuban officials at the UN in New York City, much as the CIA and NSA still do today, during which they would have learned what the president was secretly doing behind their backs.

Kennedy’s feelings toward the people who were calling him a traitor for befriending Moscow and other “enemies” of America? In response to the things that were said in that advertisement and flier about him being a traitor for befriending Russia, he told his wife Jackie on the morning he was assassinated: “We are heading into nut country today.” Of course, as he well knew, the nuts weren’t located only in Dallas. They were also situated throughout the U.S. national-security establishment.


https://www.fff.org/2017/05/18/russian-obsession-goes-back-decades/

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 6:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Civil wars are perhaps the most tragic and bitter, when a country goes to war on itself – and it’s brother against brother, homesteads destroyed by other compatriots.

Today, the United States of America seems to be at war with itself again. Not yet an all-out bloodletting as in the Civil War of 1861-65, but nevertheless the nation seems to be plunging into an internecine process of shredding itself, pulling down the very edifice of the state.

There’s even reports of married couples splitting in divorce because of the growing political divisions.

The governing business of running the country is held hostage by incessant political scrapping; the institutions of governance appear in meltdown from eroding authority.

This time around, it’s not northern states versus the south, or over industrialists wanting to usurp landowners, or moral questions of race and slavery. The current war is due to powerful factions within the political class not willing to accept the election of Donald Trump.

Indeed. The security state is pulling down Trump just like they've pulled down any number of other elected leaders with hyped-up "color revolutions". Destabilization is a well-practiced art among our security agencies. Just like terrorism, why would anyone think that it stops magically at our borders?

Quote:

Trump was not supposed to win the presidential election in November 2016, as far as ruling class elements were concerned. His Democrat rival Hillary Clinton was the favored candidate owing to her deep connections to the foreign policy establishment and corporate news media.

Trump’s avowed stance to normalize relations with Russia was the number-one bugbear for the US establishment which preferred Clinton’s more hawkish outlook as part of extending its global hegemonic ambitions.

As always, the American ruling class is variegated. No doubt there are powerful Wall Street and corporate factions among American capital that are indifferent about the actual election result, or perhaps even rather pleased by it. Trump, so far, seems to be rather disposed to pandering to corporate America with generous tax-breaks for the wealthy, so there is no problem there for many among the American ruling class.

Where the problem arises is more within the political class of foreign policy establishment, straddling the Republican-Democrat career politicians in Washington, the intelligence community and the security-military apparatus, the CIA, Pentagon and their assets or class sympathizers within the corporate media. This is the deep state complex, although not all within the deep state may hold the same hostile view of Trump. Enough evidently do in order to sustain a political war against Trump’s presidency.

The whole Russia-gate “scandal” just keeps running and running regardless of objective proof. Never, it seems, has so much political and media time been spent on a nebulous issue which has such negligible substance. It’s a classic case of tilting at windmills.

It's also a classic case of Americans driven into distracted lunacy by the endless media yammering over nothing.

Quote:

Earlier this week, James Clapper, the former national intelligence director, reiterated in a media interview that he has seen no evidence of “collusion” between the Trump election team and Russian state agents. Clapper then goes on mealymouthed to say: “I can’t confirm or deny it”.

People like Clapper and the former FBI chief James Comey continually hint at a Russia-gate scandal, but they never present any evidence. They should either put up or shut up. For to not do is nothing less than political witch-hunting. The purpose of which is to undermine President Trump’s mandate. And it is all given full vent by politicians and media who wittingly or unwittingly rally behind the American paranoia of Russophobia.

We may loathe Trump’s personality or his crony-style politics, but the fact is that he was elected on November 8. The question then is: do we accept the result of democracy?

It seems clear that there are elite interests within the US ruling class who do not accept American democracy and the mandate of Trump’s electors.

He could have just said: They do not accept democracy. period. They're so used to getting their way, when they are thwarted in any aspect they come down like a hammer. And many American citizens (liberals) have been bamboozled in TEARING DOWN THEIR OWN DEMOCRACY because THEY don't like the results, either. They think that they can overturn the democratic process THIS time, without threatening it indefinitely into the future.

Quote:

This is a fundamental revelation that goes to the very heart of American democracy, which we are led to believe is the best in the world.

Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, the Land of the Free. It’s evidently all balderdash, self-preening propaganda. For American democracy is being shredded by elements within the ruling system who do not accept the result of the last presidential election.

They are covering up their brazen anti-democratic assault on the electorate with outlandish and frankly ridiculous claims of Trump being a Russian agent and about his reliance on Russian cyber-hacking to get him into the White House.

The political witch-hunt continues unabated against Trump, not because of any credible evidence, far from it, but simply because those people fanning the allegations are powerful enough to make sure the witch-hunt remains a dominant focus in public life.

Last week, Trump fired the FBI’s James Comey for the good reason that he was hamming up the Russia-gate probes. The media claimed this was Trump covering up his alleged Russian links. Twist after twist.

Now this week the US media are full of claims that Trump leaked highly classified information on Islamic State terrorists to Russia’s foreign minister Sergey Lavrov during their closed-door meeting at the White House.

We have the extraordinary spectacle of US politicians and the corporate media accusing a sitting president of lying, betraying state secrets to “a foreign enemy”, and the president’s top national security advisor General HR McMaster being forced to publicly state that the claims are “false”.

In the Clapper interview mentioned earlier, he said that the US was being attacked both externally and internally. The former he said was from Russia. No evidence presented, just the usual assertion and bombast. On the source of internal attacks, Clapper blamed President Trump for “assaulting state institutions”.

The top institution of the US, the office of presidency, is being assaulted by people like Clapper and the establishment who are refusing to acknowledge Trump’s electoral mandate. Systematically, repeatedly, openly calling the president of the country a liar and traitor is the most corrosive assault on the legitimacy of government.

Ultimately, the pre-eminent institution of American democracy – the will of the people – is being assaulted by the same powerful factions.

This is what Russia’s foreign minister Sergey Lavrov alluded to when he said last week that America was “humiliating itself” by making the unfounded claims that Russia subverted its presidential election. How can the supposedly most powerful nation on Earth, as it continually claims to be, be so vulnerable to alleged Russian hackers?

The people attacking American democracy are American, not Russian or anyone else. The country is at war with itself. It is its own worse enemy, and flailing around with paranoid fears over non-existent threats.

America’s Civil War II is underway and it’s a war over whether democracy in that country exists or not. Old Glory is being shot to pieces and the victors have yet to emerge.

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/201705161053671216-america-civil-wa
r
/

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 9:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Well, I'm going to pull a SECOND, and quote some of the media here, since you seem to value it so highly ...,

Too long, didn't read. I am going to pull a Signym, who is all opinion all the time. Trump has not released his tax returns. There is tax cheating that Trump does not want revealed or else he would have long ago kept his promise to make those returns public information. And then there are his properties and loans. Every one of them is a perfect opportunity for Trump to receive a bribe. None of this has been investigated; any irregularity could be enough to send him to jail. The media can’t cover any of this because it does not have the power to subpoena documents and witnesses or to wiretap. The deep state has been protecting Trump, leaving the media with only cruel gossip about Trump, who hates being gossiped about.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:51 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I can't tell if Second is being sarcastic or if she actually meant what she said there. "The Deep state has been protecting Trump".

You should play Signey more often Second.



I don't actually ever recall Trump promising to release his tax forms. I'm not saying it didn't happen, and maybe you could show me a video where he said it, but I thought he just deflected any questions about it.

Whether or not the public or even the MSM have it is moot. They might need a subponea to make that available to the public, but they do not need that to investigate it themselves. That's called an audit, and the IRS can do it to anybody they want at any time for any reason.

That leaves two possibilities on the table regarding Trump and his taxes.

1. There's nothing damning in them.
2. The "deep state" or whatever you want to call it is protecting Trump.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 12:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

That leaves two possibilities on the table regarding Trump and his taxes.

1. There's nothing damning in them.
2. The "deep state" or whatever you want to call it is protecting Trump.- SIX

There's a third possibility, and it's that the deep state isn't getting much traction with the tax return issue.

Just think about all of the negatives that have been trotted out about Trump: "pussy-grabber", "golden showers" client, tax returns, conflict of interest, anti-Muslim, anti-gay ... most of those flashed in the pan and disappeared. The one thing that reliably gets people's attention is scaring them with some sort of "national security" story. Otherwise it's just "meh" from a lot of people.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Saturday, May 20, 2017 1:52 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

That leaves two possibilities on the table regarding Trump and his taxes.

1. There's nothing damning in them.
2. The "deep state" or whatever you want to call it is protecting Trump.- SIX

There's a third possibility, and it's that the deep state isn't getting much traction with the tax return issue.



That is a 3rd possibility. I don't even see T or G talking about that one anymore. But the fact that Second brings it up again now must mean that somebody is still talking about it occasionally in the MSM even if it isn't a major focus.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Like A LOT of things claimed about Trump, I'm keeping my eye out for, yanno, evidence. And like everything else, I'm still not seeing any. That this is still being flogged indicates somebody thinks it's gaining ground.

We must be a nation of the gullible.

Whoever said advertising doesn't work?




Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:01 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

That leaves two possibilities on the table regarding Trump and his taxes.

1. There's nothing damning in them.
2. The "deep state" or whatever you want to call it is protecting Trump.- SIX

There's a third possibility, and it's that the deep state isn't getting much traction with the tax return issue.



That is a 3rd possibility. I don't even see T or G talking about that one anymore. But the fact that Second brings it up again now must mean that somebody is still talking about it occasionally in the MSM even if it isn't a major focus.



SECOND brings it up because She understands what's going on outside these threads. You are clueless and SIG has a pro-Russian agenda. She is in the business of deflection and misinformation. She posts false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive. Put another way, she is a troll.






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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:06 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I find it humorous because you spend so much time listening to the MSM and eating up all that bullshit that you have any more of a clue as to what's going on than I do. You're a funny guy T.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


From another thread:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61377&mid=10308
40#1030840

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
There has been talk of Investigations into Russia causing influence in our Elections, particularly the November 2016 General Election. This is one topic. It may have relevance because the revelations of so much of Hilliary's Criminal Actions, Obstructions, and Falsehoods were supposed to be kept under wraps by the MSM Wing of the Democrap Party, and other Democraps as well. And, although Russia is unlikely to have forced Hilliary to commit these crimes, Russia may have had a hand in exposing Hilliary's vast accumulation of Criminal Acts.

This is the topic where actual investigations - several of them - exist.
Quote:


There has also been pretend talk of hoped-for investigations into Trump and Russia colluding in regards to influencing the Election. This nonsense has no merit, but the Democrap drumbeat has constantly tried to comingle this with the prior issue in hopes of coloring the perceptions of those not paying attention. This is a second, and separate topic.

This is the drumbeat of "Collusion" from the MSM and other Democraps. No investigations exist for this false narrative, but Libtards sincerely hope that drive-by media watchers will co-mingle this meritless accusation with the valid previous topic.
Quote:


Now there is talk of having an investigation into the failure to generate an investigation into the above meritless topic, unrelated to the possibly merited first topic. This is a third topic, separate from the first, but a spin-off of the second topic.



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Like A LOT of things claimed about Trump, I'm keeping my eye out for, yanno, evidence. And like everything else, I'm still not seeing any. That this is still being flogged indicates somebody thinks it's gaining ground.

We must be a nation of the gullible.

Whoever said advertising doesn't work?


Evidence that Russia assisted in revealing Hilliary's crimes to the American Public - may be forthcoming, but what would be the point?

Evidence that the Trump Campaign colluded with Russia regarding the campaign - none so far, or on the horizon, and most officials agree there never will be any evidence found of this.

What about evidence of the actual known collusion to affect the Election? The collusion between Hilliary and CNN? Few do not know that CNN gave Hilliary the answers to the "Debate" questions before the so-called "Debate" - so where is the uproar about this known collusion?

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.


This seems like faulty logic. Sometimes the existence of the intelligence defines what the source was and who to kill to close the source.
Quote:


The reason you can’t publicly articulate this defense is that it’s ridiculously damning. A president who can’t be bothered to familiarize himself with briefing materials can’t be conducting high-level diplomatic meetings with the foreign minister of Russia.
www.vox.com/2017/5/16/15648948/trump-pivot


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Monday, May 22, 2017 1:39 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Here we don’t even have a body, let alone a smoking gun. Trump insists there’s no there there, but acts as if the there is everywhere.


What would an innocent man do? How would he behave? Wouldn't he want the authorities to overturn every rock to prove his innocence? Or would he, as you say, confuse and confound them to teach them, and the MSM, a lesson.

Quote:

He wants to prove that the MSM is fake news. What better way than to behave as if he IS guilty and flaunt that and provoke the media and the Democrats and even the GOP and cultivate this firestorm to the point where people are demanding justice with pitchforks on the steps of the White House only to lower the curtain and show that there was nothing going on at all...?


Whaaaaaat! Yeah that makes sense!

So basically Trump wants to fake out the MSM Fake News. Seriously dude!? If you're innocent or if you feel that there's nothing there, wouldn't you cooperate with the outfit investigating you. "Oooo, I know", says Trump, "I'll embarrass and humiliate them and then fire the guy who's directing the investigation. That'll teach 'em."

WRONG! That just gets everyone's attention, in the most wrong way possible. Here's what an innocent (sane) man would do:

He would cooperate..."OMG what a freaking nightmare!" (Marisa Tomei, I love you).
Yes, what a novel idea! He would volunteer to be interviewed, he would turn over any and all documents, he would even submit his tax returns - all to prove that he had nothing to do with it. But Nooooooooo, he listens to a bunch of Russians.

He insults the FBI (and other intelligence entities), he fires the lead US Attorney investigating the Russian Syndicate, he fires the acting Attorney General
investigating the man who lied to the Vice President (about his ties to the Russian Syndicate) and then, just for kicks, he fires the director of the FBI investigating the Russian Syndicate for hacking and tampering the very fabric of our American way of life. The cornerstone of our existence - Democracy.

I'm sensing a pattern here. If there's no there there! Then why the charade? Why go to all the trouble simply because you hate the media (a group of people that have made him rich beyond his dreams, aside from his father)? Why raise suspicions and doubt about your legacy as president? Are you that hard up for attention? Didn't mommy give you enough hugs when you were a little boy? Didn't Ivanka?
(okay, that was a low blow) But really, you think he wants to teach them a lesson.

If confusion is his endgame, then he has failed miserably. Do you think that the guys over at the FBI will say that there scared of being fired, and won't work full tilt until they uncover his dirty deals? Collusion, conspiracy, money laundering, meets with Russian officials, turns over coded documents, bars the American press from an important White House meeting.

You might want to ask if I think he's being framed? A Big Fat NO! This is the most crooked motherfucker on the face of the planet. I'm ashamed of this president.


SGG


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Monday, May 22, 2017 2:27 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by second:There are only a few people Trump needs to please: two are the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority leader.


He only needz to pleez Putin.

If you take that perspectiv, everything he duz makes sens. Anything that makes the GoPs happy iz only insidental to serving Putin.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, May 22, 2017 8:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:There are only a few people Trump needs to please: two are the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority leader. - SECOND

He only needz to pleez Putin.
If you take that perspectiv, everything he duz makes sens. Anything that makes the GoPs happy iz only insidental to serving Putin.



JO, does Putin have "the" vote that guarantees impeachment?

No?

Is Putin on the NYT/ WaPo/ CNN/ MSNBC editorial Board?

No?

Does he have moles in the FBI?

No?

So tell me, HOW does Putin manage to save Trump's ass?

I'm not being sarcastic, I expect a serious and thoughtful answer. One which I'm afraid you will refuse to provide.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Monday, May 22, 2017 9:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.- SECOND

This seems like faulty logic. Sometimes the existence of the intelligence defines what the source was and who to kill to close the source.- JSF


Yanno for WEEKS ahead of this meeting, it had been mentioned in the press that onboard laptops were being banned from flights originating from some countries.

Anyone with two neurons could have guessed that they represented a terrorist threat. Anyone with three neurons could have picked out a very short list of possible suspects (ISIS most likely, al Qaida a distant second), and anyone with five neurons and a little bit of intelligence information could have picked out where this information could have reliably come from: The Middle East, but not Saudi Arabia and its partners, or Iran and it's partners, or Russia and it's partners. That leaves a very short list of Israel, Turkey ... and ...? (nobody)

Since I'm certain that Russia has its own intelligence services, I doubt that Trump COULD have told Russia anything that it hadn't either discovered on its own or figured out by reading our newspapers.

And if that's not the "classified information" that Trump shared, what was?

There are (now, once again) anonymous sources claiming unspecified things about nothing in particular. Apparently, the constant "leaking" of insinuations isn't enough for anyone to detect a pattern?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Monday, May 22, 2017 6:30 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So tell me, HOW does Putin manage to save Trump's ass?



He duznt reveal the dirt. Or the $$$.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, May 22, 2017 7:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I see SIG is trying to rewrite her history regarding Trump.- THUGR

When I find my posts and quote them here, will I finally get the apology I so richly deserve from you? Will you finally admit you're a know-nothing lying troll? Of course not, That's because you're a lying, know-nothing troll.

Not my most immediate project ever, but here's a hint: Even SECOND, who is about as rabidly anti-Trump as one can imagine, didn't challenge me on that post, and the reason why is that she reads with comprehension. Unlike... er.... you.- SIGNY



So, I went back and looked at some of my olds posts about Trump. I didn't get through even half of the "Trump just because ... nah I can't say it" thread and here are all of the "great" things I've said about Trump


Quote:

Trump is a salesman... For Trump, the one driving factor seems to be - really- the art of the deal. It's a challenge for him to sell ... an investment, a TV show, a book ... candidacy. Unlike most of Trumps critics, I've listened closely to a few of his stump speeches, and I realize that 90% of what Trump is saying is sales pitch.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=2

Trump is a national capitalist

n addition to being somewhat manic (IMHO) Trump is a bully.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=3

I'd be the last person to say that Trump is a great Presidential candidate. I've looked at his business record and listened to his speeches, and what this guy is is a hypomanic (or maybe even manic) who's a great salesperson with no follow-though
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=5

First of all, it said everything I already said about Trump. That he's hypomanic most of the time, and a narcissist
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=6

Well, I've been saying for a while I think there's something not quit right about that man. You don't have a permanent case of hypomania without being a little off. ADHD also crossed my mind, which would explain the difficulties in school, complete lack of filter between brain and mouth, general sleeplessness, and need for attention.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=6

you [second] keep asking if I really think Trump will do this or that, and my answer is "no". I have said, more than once, that he's a loose cannon. A VERY loose cannon.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=7

Assuming this [TRUMP'S MEDIUM-GRADE MANIA] is shown to be true, for an armchair psychologist I guess I'm not too bad. I've been saying this almost since I started posting about Trump. So this armchair dx isn't new, at least not to me.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=9

this is a good sampling of Trump. Some of it is awkward, some of it is self-aggrandizing, a little bit of it is cringe-worthy, but there are also many rational, reasonable statements in it.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=11

FINALLY! Something about what Trump actually has said, not about what the DNC thinks Trump "will" say (Trump will Crumble Under Tough Questions).... or about Putin (Too many posts to count, because you folks are obsessed with Putin)! Or cartoons about Trump, claiming to know what Trump thinks, or nasty nude paintings of Trump, or all of the other irrelevant anti-Trump propaganda you all have posted.

I agree. I listened to Trump's Q&A before veterans, and most of the questions were "What will you do about (fill in the blank"? and I have to say that he managed to avoid answering most of the questions by simply criticizing previous administrations, or by providing general answers ("I'm going to make the VA something to be proud of") without providing any specifics.

And what Trump says reveals a person who is, unsurprisingly, totally unfamiliar with how government works. In Trump's world, when he says something, people scurry to get accomplished. OR they drag their feet and wait for Trump to come to his sense because they know he was just thinking out loud. Not so in the WH! Although the President has vast administrative powers, some of Trump's greatest goals will require an OK from Congress.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=13


The great things about that thread is that so many people quoted me, it would be impossible for me to post-edit my comments. These quotes are an accurate copy of what I wrote back then.

And this isn't even from the thread where I was calling him a bullshitter!

I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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Monday, May 22, 2017 7:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And here is THUGR, salivating at the thought that Trump had a prostitute pee on him in a Moscow hotel
Quote:

I for one am glad our law enforcement is taking a serious look at this!

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61366

KPO, doing the same thing ...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61303



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.


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