REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Evidens

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 03:16
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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Your arguments sound a lot like "six degrees of Kevin Bacon": Let's see how many people have worked with someone who worked with someone who met someone who knew someone who worked with someone who knew Kevin Bacon?

A lot of people have "connections" with Russia, if only indirectly. Hillary certainly had robust direct connections. Obama spoke with Putin almost every day. Why don't you go digging in THEIR assholes to see what you can find?

Sheesh. Your paranoia knows no bounds, does it?

I have an idea, and I think it's a lot more constructive: instead of desperately trying to find dirt on Trump retroactively, why don't we just respond to his POLICIES? If we think his policies won't work well in promoting America's interests (You'll have to define those first) then respond to THAT, instead of this undying personal grotch that you seem to be carrying. How does that sound?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 3:29 PM

6STRINGJOKER


This topic is actually becoming so boring and predictable that it's not even fun anymore.

Here's hoping there's something worth reading or debating elsewhere...

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
This topic is actually becoming so boring and predictable that it's not even fun anymore.

Here's hoping there's something worth reading or debating elsewhere...

I agree. I hope that focusing on Trump's policies and our collective interests as Americans will lead to a more fruitful discussion elsewhere. Not in THIS thread, tho!



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 6:01 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Your arguments sound a lot like "six degrees of Kevin Bacon": Let's see how many people have worked with someone who worked with someone who met someone who knew someone who worked with someone who knew Kevin Bacon?

A lot of people have "connections" with Russia, if only indirectly. Hillary certainly had robust direct connections. Obama spoke with Putin almost every day. Why don't you go digging in THEIR assholes to see what you can find?

Sheesh. Your paranoia knows no bounds, does it?

I have an idea, and I think it's a lot more constructive: instead of desperately trying to find dirt on Trump retroactively, why don't we just respond to his POLICIES? If we think his policies won't work well in promoting America's interests (You'll have to define those first) then respond to THAT, instead of this undying personal grotch that you seem to be carrying. How does that sound?




Geewhiz, that sure sounds like a pro-Russia stance! Pass - really, really bad idea. They hacked our election and they have their hand up our puppet president's under parts - we need to eradicate them from our governing, like now. Don't worry, I know you know I know you won't understand.

==============================

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Geewhiz, that sure sounds like a pro-Russia stance! Pass - really, really bad idea. They hacked our election and they have their hand up our puppet president's under parts - we need to eradicate them from our governing, like now. Don't worry, I know you know I know you won't understand. - GSTRING
It sounds to me like the security state has its hand up YOUR ass. Discussing American interests is a bad idea???? You mean, like if we take our laser focus off of RUSSIA and actually think about our future and what we need to do, that's a problem???

Is Trump trying to do anything other than what he OPENLY PROMISED (make nice with Russia) during his campaign?

NO???

Then what's your problem?

People knew that Trump wanted to make nice with Russia when they voted for him. YOUR big problem isn't that Trump is being "manipulated" in some underhanded way, you're just scared that people might actually have voted for his very openly-stated policy direction.

Jeez, do you have any idea how utterly unhinged you sound? You're just like AURAPTOR who to this day still thinks that Saddam had WMD!


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 11:03 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Geewhiz, that sure sounds like a pro-Russia stance! Pass - really, really bad idea. They hacked our election and they have their hand up our puppet president's under parts - we need to eradicate them from our governing, like now. Don't worry, I know you know I know you won't understand. - GSTRING
It sounds to me like the security state has its hand up YOUR ass. Is there ANY EVIDENCE whatsoever that Russia is manipulating Trump??
Is Trump doing ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE OPENLY PROMISED DURING THE CAMPAIGN?
No??

Then what's your problem?

People knew that Trump wanted to make nice with Russia when they voted for him. YOUR big problem isn't that Trump is being "manipulated" in some underhanded way, you're just pissed off that people might actually have voted for his very openly-stated policy direction.

Jeez, what a crybaby.




Name calling, lying and taunting - who's the cry baby??
Keep swinging and missing, hon. Trump's going down and he's going to go down hard, and it will be a great day in the USA - the world - when that happens. I'm going to break out the good stuff. Sorry you won't be able to join in the celebration. I will toast to your wretched sadness though - cheers!

==============================

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 11:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Name calling, lying and taunting - who's the cry baby??
No, I changed my description to "unhinged". Check back, I post-edited.

Quote:

Trump's going down and he's going to go down hard,
People knew that Trump wanted to make nice with Russia when they voted for him. YOUR big problem isn't that Trump is being "manipulated" in some underhanded way, you're just scared that people might actually have voted for his very openly-stated policy direction.

WHY??? Because you're utterly paranoid about RUSSIA!. Jeez, do you have any idea how utterly unhinged you sound? You're just like AURAPTOR who to this day still thinks that Saddam had WMD!

This focus on RUSSIA! is not only (mostly) pointless, it apparently excuses you from thinking about anything else ... things that might be more useful in the long-run, like "What are America's interests"?

But hey, take a little time from your all-consuming fear and meet me over in the "What are America's Interests" thread. It's OK ... you can take your eye off RUSSIA! for a few hours here and there, and think about something else for a change. Don't worry - your paranoia will still be waiting for you when you get back to it.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 1:40 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

People knew that Trump wanted to make nice with Russia when they voted for him. YOUR big problem isn't that Trump is being "manipulated" in some underhanded way, you're just scared that people might actually have voted for his very openly-stated policy direction.

WHY??? Because you're utterly paranoid about RUSSIA!. Jeez, do you have any idea how utterly unhinged you sound? You're just like AURAPTOR who to this day still thinks that Saddam had WMD!

This focus on RUSSIA! is not only (mostly) pointless, it apparently excuses you from thinking about anything else ... things that might be more useful in the long-run, like "What are America's interests"?

But hey, take a little time from your all-consuming fear and meet me over in the "What are America's Interests" thread. It's OK ... you can take your eye off RUSSIA! for a few hours here and there, and think about something else for a change. Don't worry - your paranoia will still be waiting for you when you get back to it.

Bernie Sanders said there are several things Trump is doing not in America's interests:

So you have this unprecedented attack on the media. What this guy is doing is basically telling the American people, “You cannot trust anything in mainstream media.”

Then, on top of that, he is attacking the judiciary system and Department of Justice. A judge rules against him — that is not unusual; judges often rule against presidents and against legislation — but you don't go around undermining the judiciary and calling people “so-called judges” because they ruled against you.

Then on top of that, you have his support for authoritarian leaders.

The American people, I think, whether you are a Republican or Democrat, have a hard time understanding his affection for a guy like Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has worked overtime to undermine not only democracy in his own country but also democracy in the United States.

Do you want a good relationship with Russia? Of course you do. But why would you have what appears to be a personal affection for an authoritarian leader? It is not just Putin. It is also President Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippines; it is the royal family of Saudi Arabia.

Again: You may want to make alliances, you may not; those are debates you have to have. But for a country like the United States, which has been seen, historically, as one of the great promoters of democracy, why have this affinity for so many authoritarian countries?

I have spoken to conservatives who share these exact same concerns.

Bernie has more to say about Trump at
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/22/15848468/bernie-sanders-trum
p-dangerous-authoritarian


Signym might demand my opinion and ignore Bernie's. My opinion is that Trump should resign for the good of the U.S.A.

In my opinion that won't happen.

My other opinion is that Trump voters from 2016 should give a truthful assessment of Trump before they vote again for him in 2020.

In my opinion that won't happen. But who knows what might happen in 4 years? Maybe Trump voters will be older and wiser. In my opinion those voters will only be older.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 2:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Bernie Sanders said there are several things Trump is doing not in America's interests:

So you have this unprecedented attack on the media. What this guy is doing is basically telling the American people, “You cannot trust anything in mainstream media.”-

Well, you can't. If the endless shilling by the NYT for attacking Iraq and Syria weren't good enough examples of biased-to-the-point-of-propaganda-reporting, the silence on all of Obama's failings and the endless releases of "anonymous" leaks (some of them demonstrable lies) about Trump and "Russia" should provide anyone on either side ample reason to distrust anything the press says.

Don't forget, our media is CORPORATE media. BTW, don't trust politicians either. What Trump said is pretty much a truism, and beneficial to the workings of a democracy.

Quote:

Then, on top of that, he is attacking the judiciary system and Department of Justice. A judge rules against him — that is not unusual; judges often rule against presidents and against legislation — but you don't go around undermining the judiciary and calling people “so-called judges” because they ruled against you.
He called a judge a name? Oh, the horror!

Any laws being proposed to restrict the judiciary?

Quote:

Then on top of that, you have his support for authoritarian leaders.
As opposed to Obama, who supported the Saudis and the other Gulf nations?

Quote:

The American people, I think, whether you are a Republican or Democrat, have a hard time understanding his affection for a guy like Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has worked overtime to undermine not only democracy in his own country but also democracy in the United States.
Putin has been an extremely effective leader. Under his Presidential terms, the typical per capita GDP in Russia rose by a factor of three or four, the influence of oligarchs and criminal gangs was reduced, and the jihadist threat in Chechnya was crushed. He has also "hardened" Russia's economic, military, and financial infrastructure against western meddling and threats. Can you say that any of that happened under Obama or Bush?

Quote:

You want a good relationship with Russia? Of course you do. But why would you have what appears to be a personal affection for an authoritarian leader? It is not just Putin. It is also President Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippines; it is the royal family of Saudi Arabia.
I don't know about this "personal affection" that you keep referring to. Grab me a few quotes that you find troubling.

Quote:

Again: You may want to make alliances, you may not; those are debates you have to have. But for a country like the United States, which has been seen, historically, as one of the great promoters of democracy, why have this affinity for so many authoritarian countries?
I don't know if we want to make an "alliance" with Russia any more than we want to pointlessly antagonize them. On some issues, our interests overlap and on others not so much.

Quote:

I have spoken to conservatives who share these exact same concerns.
I suppose that Trump, being a businessman, is used to getting his own way and not too much in tune with being politically-correct. But the thing about Trump, or ANY President, is that his power is limited by Congress and by the judiciary.

The more backing the opposition party has, the better they are at limiting what the President can do. Which is why it would be best if the Democrats would offer a GOOD ALTERNATIVE to Trump - something that addresses the economic stagnation that so many people have been feeling since 2008 - instead of being a bunch of whiny crybabies.

Quote:

Signym might demand my opinion and ignore Bernie's. My opinion is that Trump should resign for the good of the U.S.A.
For which YOU have offered no good reason. Unless you're agreeing with Bernie?


Quote:

My other opinion is that Trump voters from 2016 should give a truthful assessment of Trump before they vote again for him in 2020.
Also, a truthful assessment of the alternative.

Trump is doing several things that I find are important, and against America's interests as I see them. And yet, preferable to Hillary, who had already sold America out to the transnationals and banks anyway.

So, let me go back to my original premise about nationalism, and why it's preferable to globalism:

In a democratic nation, there is at least a theoretical feedback loop - from the people to the government - which is supposed to control economic, financial, regulatory, trade etc policies so that they serve the people. The feedback loop has been distorted by corporate interests and is flawed and ineffective, but it is there and it can be improved.

But there's no "global democracy" to blunt policies which are set by transnational banks and industries. These trade, currency, economic, financial, regulatory etc policies are completely out of reach of anyone, except the 0.01% who have access to the secret trade tribunals and coordination committees which govern for the benefit of ... the 0.01%. You can see what the problems are by how the IMF and the "Troika" operate: strictly non-democratic and extremely exploitative of ordinary people.

Because of that, I'm very much in tune with economic nationalism, which is part of Trump's message. Also, very much in tune with NOT constantly bombing/ invading/ meddling in other nations; I think we need to focus on self defense.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:05 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Putin has been an extremely effective leader. Under his Presidential terms, the typical per capita GDP in Russia rose by a factor of three or four, the influence of oligarchs and criminal gangs was reduced, and the jihadist threat in Chechnya was crushed. He has also "hardened" Russia's economic, military, and financial infrastructure against western meddling and threats. Can you say that any of that happened under Obama or Bush?

So all the glory goes to Putin? How nice of you! You of the opinion that Trump will increase per capita GDP in America by a factor of three or four? How optimistic of you! For a factor of three, that is 7% per year over 16 years. Trump's predicting 4% per year, which will not happen in my opinion.

Getting back to Evidence from today:
Intel chiefs tell investigators Trump suggested they refute collusion with Russians
www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/intel-chiefs-trump-refute-collusion/in
dex.html


This goes further than what Trump asked James Comey to do. He wanted Comey to publicly acknowledge that Trump himself wasn’t under investigation, which was at least true. But he apparently asked the intelligence chiefs to say that his campaign didn’t collude with the Russians, which is precisely what’s under investigation. That’s like asking the district attorney to publicly exonerate a murder suspect while police are still collecting evidence.

This may not have been an order to interfere with an ongoing investigation, but it was sure as hell inappropriate, as both Coats and Rogers obviously knew.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:05 PM

6STRINGJOKER


You know what? I figured out who Second and G and T and J0 sound like. It took me a LONG time to figure it out, but it's so obvious.

They sound EXACTLY like the Anti-Obama-From-Day-One-No-Matter-What types that watched Hannity and listened to Rush every single day.


I've got news for you fools. Trump isn't going anywhere, just like Obama wasn't going anywhere.

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:08 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You know what? I figured out who Second and G and T and J0 sound like. It took me a LONG time to figure it out, but it's so obvious.

They sound EXACTLY like the Anti-Obama-From-Day-One-No-Matter-What types that watched Hannity and listened to Rush every single day.


I've got news for you fools. Trump isn't going anywhere, just like Obama wasn't going anywhere.

Why should he go away? But then again why should the MSM not cover every little detail of his Presidency? If you don't like that then Trump should be more careful with the details.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okay, SECOND, here is the crux of one your concerns, I think ....

You believe that Trump would use Putin or Duterte ... or even Hitler ... as a blueprint for how a "strongman" can gain control of a nominally-democratic nation (one which at least has multi-party elections).

First of all, I would say that is only possible when a nation is in extremis (at the point of death) ... which I think accurately describes Weimar Germany, Russia under Yeltsin, and the Philippines pretty much most of the time. People will tolerate a loss of civic freedom in exchange for practical freedoms - the freedom to buy food, to walk the streets without getting mugged, or to find a job.

Which is why it is SO IMPORTANT to get that conversation going about we Americans need and the direction that we need to be going. Also, why it is so important for a real opposition party with real alternatives and a real plan to come forward, whether that is the Democratic party or something else. Trying to sell us on "the poor illegal alien" or "the poor freedom-loving Syrians" or "Why we should all be just one big happy global family" is a non-starter. It would be awfully nice (for the Dems, and for everyone) if the DNC would collectively get its head out of its ass and be that party to come forward. Because its a poor position to be in when someone like Trump looks like the better alternative.

As for "Russia trying to destroy our democracy" ... I can't imagine what Putin would get out of generically meddling. And the only direct outcome I can imagine Putin wanting would be a President who wants better relations with Russia. But isn't that in our interests anyway? To cooperate in areas where our interests overlap?

In any case, the Patriot Act, the unlimited warrantless spying, monopolistic corporate media, Obama's star chamber proceedings, the unprecedented prosecution of whistleblowers, the constant drumbeat of anti-Russian propaganda (to the point when anyone who even demurs from participating is immediately branded as a "Russian troll" and a traitor), the constant anonymous anti-Trump gossip released by the security state, and our endless wars abroad pretty much do that already???

As far as I can tell, "the Russians" didn't make a dent in our election process. We're already an oligarchy, and our civil freedoms and ability to know what's going on in government have pretty much been worn away, anyway. The problem isn't "Russia", it's us. We need to hold our government to higher standards.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:38 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You know what? I figured out who Second and G and T and J0 sound like. It took me a LONG time to figure it out, but it's so obvious.

They sound EXACTLY like the Anti-Obama-From-Day-One-No-Matter-What types that watched Hannity and listened to Rush every single day.


I've got news for you fools. Trump isn't going anywhere, just like Obama wasn't going anywhere.

Why should he go away? But then again why should the MSM not cover every little detail of his Presidency? If you don't like that then Trump should be more careful with the details.



I'm referring to idiotic posts like this one:

Quote:


Name calling, lying and taunting - who's the cry baby??
Keep swinging and missing, hon. Trump's going down and he's going to go down hard, and it will be a great day in the USA - the world - when that happens. I'm going to break out the good stuff. Sorry you won't be able to join in the celebration. I will toast to your wretched sadness though - cheers!



I do have to admit out of all of the complainers here, you're the most pragmatic of the bunch.

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 4:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okay, SECOND, here is the crux of one your concerns, I think ....

Which is why it is SO IMPORTANT to get that conversation going about we Americans need and the direction that we need to be going. Also, why it is so important for a real opposition party with real alternatives and a real plan to come forward, whether that is the Democratic party or something else.

"that conversation going about we Americans need": You could probably get a majority of Americans to agree that Americans need healthcare. Trump says he wants better healthcare. There is Evidence healthcare will actually get worse with the passing of the Senate’s bill. https://qz.com/1012391 It hasn’t been signed by Trump or voted on by the House, which passed a different bill, but if it does NOT get signed, healthcare will automatically get worse because of insurance companies predictively pulling out of the market.
www.vox.com/health-care/2017/6/22/15855106/senate-health-bill-death-sp
iral-cartoon


This is very strong Evidence that Trump is not thinking about the details of what "Americans need" and he will end up with what is worse for America. Trump was promoting repeal and replace without thinking about the replacement. There was a tax cut that results when Obamacare is repealed and that is about as far as Trump's thinking went. But there was so much more needing to be done and the House, Senate, and Trump have not done the necessary work. There is nothing stopping them from doing that work, other than their hastiness. If the Republicans can't get this one unsubtle, completely obvious problem solved, there is no hope for solutions to other American problems.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 4:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, if healthcare is such a critical issue, where is the Democratic PLAN to do better?

That's the problem with the Dems .... they think if they whine loud enough and long enough about Trump, the electorate will fall into their laps. They need to do better than that, or the nation will fall into complete catastrophe and people really WILL choose a strongman, just so that "something" (anything) gets done.

If you can NOT mention Trump in your next 10 posts, you'll have made great progress. Even three posts without "Trump" or "GOP" will be a big step in the right direction!





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 5:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, if healthcare is such a critical issue, where is the Democratic PLAN to do better?

That's the problem with the Dems .... they think if they whine loud enough and long enough about Trump, the electorate will fall into their laps. They need to do better than that, or the nation will fall into complete catastrophe and people really WILL choose a strongman, just so that "something" (anything) gets done.

If you can NOT mention Trump in your next 10 posts, you'll have made great progress. Even three posts without "Trump" or "GOP" will be a big step in the right direction!

There is a plan, but it does mention the President without using his given name.

Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the presidency. No one can stop them from passing a bad health care bill if they want to. But they should think carefully about what is likely to come next. Tens of millions of people losing insurance, and they’re to blame. A radicalized Democratic Party with a discredited moderate wing. The end of the assumption that a hybrid public-private model will fare better in America than a government-run system. And all this amid a presumption that sweeping health reform should be done, from the start, in the 51-vote reconciliation process, where expanding an existing government program is easier than regulating private insurance markets.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/15/15787626/mitch-mcconnell-sin
gle-payer-medicare-all


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 6:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

There is a plan
The Dems have a plan to fix healthcare? Then what is it? How will they manage to extend healthcare to everyone (or almost everyone) while still keeping premiums in sight and not busting the budget?

Yanno, this is pointless. The Dem "plan" is apparently to study nothing, propose nothing, and do nothing. That's not a plan.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 7:08 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The Dems have a plan to fix healthcare? Then what is it? How will they manage to extend healthcare to everyone (or almost everyone) while still keeping premiums in sight and not busting the budget?

Yanno, this is pointless. The Dem "plan" is apparently to study nothing, propose nothing, and do nothing. That's not a plan.

"I want EASY! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"



==============================

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 8:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

"I want EASY! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"- GSTRING


Yes, I know YOU want easy, but what about me?

Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 8:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

"I want EASY! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"- GSTRING


Yes, I know YOU want easy, but what about me?

Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.

Republicans have shown the Democrats the tricky legislative technique to extend Medicare to everyone, not just 65 and older.

The Democrats ended up with Obamacare because they were seeking a solution that was acceptable to some Republicans such as Mitt Romney. The Democrats went with Romney's Romneycare. Then the Republicans made a U-turn and none of them would vote for Romneycare.
www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2008/lessons-fall-romneycar
e


The Democrats got stuck with a Romneycare solution because their 60th Senator was treacherous Joe Lieberman.
www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/16/joe-lieberman-barack-obama-us-he
althcare


The Republicans have shown that Healthcare can be overhauled with only 51 votes, not the 60 votes in the Senate that Democrats believed necessary. Next time the Democrats have the votes in Congress and the White House, they can do what the Republicans are doing today. Sadly, the Democrats will only do it if Trumpcare is a big catastrophe, as predicted. If it is not, Democrats will chicken out, unlike the Republicans who never lack courage of their convictions.

And speaking of courage, Republicans are never afraid to risk breaking the law to get what they want as shown by this figure:


In the criminal convictions contest, the score is Republicans 89, Democrats 1. And that’s not even counting all the high-level Iran-Contra folks who probably would have been convicted of various felonies if they hadn’t been pardoned by GHW Bush.

Among Democrats, there’s been only one criminal conviction in the past 50 years, Ron Blackley, convicted of perjury for failing to disclose a pittance in consulting fees from a former consulting business in Mississippi.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/06/our-score-so-far-republicans-89
-democrats-1
/

Is it "Evidence" that Republicans have 89 criminal convictions to Democrats 1 ? No. But it should be considered the next time someone says that the Republicans did nothing criminal in 2016-2017.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 8:14 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.




More lies - a lie with every post!
Have you seen the breakdown in Congress? Dems are unlikely to get anything through a republican congress. And you know that but choose to lie and act like you don't. The most they can hope for is to stop this POS that Mitch McConnell and his gutless cronies are trying to shove through. And rather than hold them accountable you deflect to put blame on Dems who had nothing to do with it.
I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is? To embarrass yourself? The only thing that makes sense is getting paid by the post. There's no Intelligent explanation.

==============================

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Friday, June 23, 2017 8:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.




More lies - a lie with every post!
Have you seen the breakdown in Congress? Dems are unlikely to get anything through a republican congress. And you know that but choose to lie and act like you don't. The most they can hope for is to stop this POS that Mitch McConnell and his gutless cronies are trying to shove through. And rather than hold them accountable you deflect to put blame on Dems who had nothing to do with it.
I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is? To embarrass yourself? The only thing that makes sense is getting paid by the post. There's no Intelligent explanation.

==============================

Too harsh an interpretation. The GOP is the party of NO! and the Democratic Party is the party of the tentative yes. If there will be any forward progress in the USA, Signym is hinting that it will come from either the Democrats or a disruptive figure such as Trump. But Trump was only pretending. He is actually an ordinary Republican with a chaotic management style showing he lacks strong self-control of his impulsiveness. His progressiveness is a random walk with a downhill drift toward whatever will get him reelected.

It is all explained in today's article: "The health bill might pass because Trump has launched the era of Nothing Matters politics"
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/23/15854570/will-trumpcare-pass

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Friday, June 23, 2017 9:09 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:




All I see is a graph that proves that Democratic politicians are better criminals.

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Friday, June 23, 2017 9:52 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

All I see is a graph that proves that Democratic politicians are better criminals.



I think it proves that Democrats got no guts.

In the original article where the graph came from there was a mention that more Republicans would be on the graph if only the Iran-Contra scandal had been prosecuted. Republican weren't going to let any little laws get in their way. Much the same may be happening in today's Republican White House. I can't know for sure until the definitive wiki article comes out in five or ten years about what is happening today. There is too much smoke in the air and confusion on the ground to see clearly what history will show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affa
ir


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:08 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:His progressiveness is a random walk with a downhill drift toward whatever will get him reelected.


Heh - I don't see him wanting anything to do with this mess again. He misses his old King Trump days where he could deal with Russians, whores and mobsters and no one said a peep.

==============================

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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.- SIGNY

More lies - a lie with every post!- GSTRING

So everything that you don't like is a "lie? what kind of moron are you? (The answer is: the kind of moron who stays one on purpose.)

Quote:

Have you seen the breakdown in Congress? Dems are unlikely to get anything through a republican congress. And you know that but choose to lie and act like you don't. The most they can hope for is to stop this POS that Mitch McConnell and his gutless cronies are trying to shove through. And rather than hold them accountable you deflect to put blame on Dems who had nothing to do with it.= GSTRING


I've been through this before, but either your memory card or your logic circuit is busted.

I KNOW that the Dems can't get anything through Congress, you moron. But if they want ANY HOPE OF WINNING they have to show that they CAN govern, if given the chance. Which means that they need to come up with a better plan .... one which fixes the flaws in Obamcare and is durable. They have to ADVERTISE their plan, which means "take it to the media and explain how much better it is than Obamacare". They have to demonstrate to a skeptical public that it's practical and durable and able to resist obstruction by the GOP or adverse experience rates, and not fall apart like wet toilet paper.

This should be easy. If the press is truly for Democrats and against Trump/ GOP then the press will be willing to carry these non-newsflash items in order to educate the public, because it will take at least a half-year of patient explanation about the basics. And none of that "If you like your plan you can keep it" bullshit. Aside from taking public option off the table, that was another one of Obama's big mistakes on healthcare.

Quote:

I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is?
Wow, what can I say about you except the same? I'll try to find my previous post on the topic where I said pretty much the same, just to demonstrate what an idiot you are.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:25 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:His progressiveness is a random walk with a downhill drift toward whatever will get him reelected.


Heh - I don't see him wanting anything to do with this mess again. He misses his old King Trump days where he could deal with Russians, whores and mobsters and no one said a peep.

==============================

Trump raised umpteen million for 2020 and he had a campaign rally this week in Iowa. He is running. Governing is less gratifying for him than campaigning, which explains his chaotic governing style and his lack of care to avoid scandal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2020

I see that layoffs start next month at the Carrier plant Trump “saved” last winter. And the Ford Focus is moving to China rather than Mexico. Oops.

With various acts of corruption and possible Russia-related malfeasance swirling around him, Trump requires the rock-solid support of the business community to maintain his rock-solid support in congress. That means if Carrier wants to ship jobs to Mexico and Ford wants to ship them to China, nobody is going to stop them.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/23/15860812/trump-carrier-jobs

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is?- GSTRING

Wow, what can I say about you except the same? I'll try to find my previous post on the topic where I said pretty much the same, just to demonstrate what an idiot you are. - SIGNY

AH, yes, here it is. I even posted DIRECTLY TO YOU. And you even agreed with some of what I posted. You might want to be more careful when you accuse someone of "lying" and posting "nonsense" to make sure that the person isn't you.

Quote:

To be accurate, the Dems are not in "control" of Congress, so any adjustments or ideas to fix ACA in the face of Trump's promises, "I will dump Obamacare in the first week" would be a huge waste of time. So don't blame the Dems for not working too hard on that. It's in the GOP's/Trump's court and he's been clear on what he wants to do: give breaks to the rich and fund that by throwing millions of Americans into the streets. Basic math.- GSTRING

G, it doesn't take a lot of effort to put some staffers together on how to fix Obamacare and come up with a plan. The Dems shouldn't even try to pass it through Congress, because the effort would be DOA. What the Dems should do, if they want to win elections honestly (yanno, because they have better ideas) is to come up with a plan and then tell the public. IF they have a good, solid plan, they should KEEP telling the public. - SIGNY

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61635

Is mine a magic plan for the Dems? No. It's hard work, and they risk pissing off some of their biggest contributors. But that's what they'll need to do.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:52 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Is mine a magic plan for the Dems? No. It's hard work, and they risk pissing off some of their biggest contributors. But that's what they'll need to do.

There is nothing stopping your Trump from making your wishes come true. Nothing other than he has no interest in your wishes, other than to use them, against your best interests, in his persuasion routine. He makes you look like a sucker for voting for him.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/139541975641/the-trump-master-persuader-i
ndex-and-reading-list


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 11:03 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Meanwhile, the Dems who are getting paid to represent us should start doing their jobs and figure out a way around this conundrum. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be workable.- SIGNY

More lies - a lie with every post!- GSTRING

So everything that you don't like is a "lie? what kind of moron are you? (The answer is: the kind of moron who stays one on purpose.)

Quote:

Have you seen the breakdown in Congress? Dems are unlikely to get anything through a republican congress. And you know that but choose to lie and act like you don't. The most they can hope for is to stop this POS that Mitch McConnell and his gutless cronies are trying to shove through. And rather than hold them accountable you deflect to put blame on Dems who had nothing to do with it.= GSTRING


I've been through this before, but either your memory card or your logic circuit is busted.

I KNOW that the Dems can't get anything through Congress, you moron. But if they want ANY HOPE OF WINNING they have to show that they CAN govern, if given the chance. Which means that they need to come up with a better plan .... one which fixes the flaws in Obamcare and is durable. They have to ADVERTISE their plan, which means "take it to the media and explain how much better it is than Obamacare". They have to demonstrate to a skeptical public that it's practical and durable and able to resist obstruction by the GOP or adverse experience rates, and not fall apart like wet toilet paper.

This should be easy. If the press is truly for Democrats and against Trump/ GOP then the press will be willing to carry these non-newsflash items in order to educate the public, because it will take at least a half-year of patient explanation about the basics. And none of that "If you like your plan you can keep it" bullshit. Aside from taking public option off the table, that was another one of Obama's big mistakes on healthcare.

Quote:

I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is?
Wow, what can I say about you except the same? I'll try to find my previous post on the topic where I said pretty much the same, just to demonstrate what an idiot you are.




It's simple: either you're staggeringly naive or you are lying. Yes, if I disagree with one of your lies, you are still lying.

This should be easy.... One of the dumbest things ever posted on FFF. It shows an immeasurable lack of understanding. This isn't like shopping for groceries. You sound like Trump: "Who knew Health Care was so hard?!?"

Where were you when Obama and the Dems spent what, 100+ days trying to craft O-care??? Do you think they took that much time to craft a shitty bill???? So why didn't it come out great like the pretty ponies and shiny candy bill you want now? Why do you think the Bloody Obvious never gets done??? Use all of your intelligence to answer that if you have to.

==============================

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Friday, June 23, 2017 11:09 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I can't imagine what you think the point of you posting such easily observed nonsense is?- GSTRING

Wow, what can I say about you except the same? I'll try to find my previous post on the topic where I said pretty much the same, just to demonstrate what an idiot you are. - SIGNY

AH, yes, here it is. I even posted DIRECTLY TO YOU. And you even agreed with some of what I posted. You might want to be more careful when you accuse someone of "lying" and posting "nonsense" to make sure that the person isn't you.

Quote:

To be accurate, the Dems are not in "control" of Congress, so any adjustments or ideas to fix ACA in the face of Trump's promises, "I will dump Obamacare in the first week" would be a huge waste of time. So don't blame the Dems for not working too hard on that. It's in the GOP's/Trump's court and he's been clear on what he wants to do: give breaks to the rich and fund that by throwing millions of Americans into the streets. Basic math.- GSTRING

G, it doesn't take a lot of effort to put some staffers together on how to fix Obamacare and come up with a plan. The Dems shouldn't even try to pass it through Congress, because the effort would be DOA. What the Dems should do, if they want to win elections honestly (yanno, because they have better ideas) is to come up with a plan and then tell the public. IF they have a good, solid plan, they should KEEP telling the public. - SIGNY

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61635

Is mine a magic plan for the Dems? No. It's hard work, and they risk pissing off some of their biggest contributors. But that's what they'll need to do.

-----------




Huh? You just proved my point again, thx!

More "is she naive or stupid?" from SIGGY: "G, it doesn't take a lot of effort to put some staffers together on how to fix Obamacare and come up with a plan." Yep, we'll have that done by noon. Clue: Ideas are easy! Solutions are HARD!

==============================

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Friday, June 23, 2017 11:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


GSTRING If "ideas were easy" why haven't the Dems come up with any?

The ideas are NOT easy, they take time. Which is why the Dems need to put some staffers on that NOW. It doesn't take a lot of political capital to do THAT.


Quote:

Where were you when Obama and the Dems spent what, 100+ days trying to craft O-care???
Following it every step of the way. Writing and calling my Congresspeople, papers, and NPR. I probably know more about its provisions than you do.

Quote:

Do you think they took that much time to craft a shitty bill????
YES!!!!

Quote:

So why didn't it come out great like the pretty ponies and shiny candy bill you want now?
Because they still want their big donations from the insurances and pharma? Because they were afraid of a blizzard of negative advertising ("Harry and Louise") as happened to Hillary when she proposed her health care reform in 1993?

Quote:

Why do you think the Bloody Obvious never gets done???
Because the rich have a stranglehold on the purse strings, and Congress - instead of pursuing votes from its constituents - is busy pursuing money.

Quote:

Use all of your intelligence to answer that if you have to.
Seems like you should have been able to do that yourself, if you had any intelligence to spare.

One good thing about the latest Democratic results, from Hillary to Ossoff, is that despite spending beaucoup bucks the Dems STILL LOST. Maybe this bitch-slap by reality will tell them that you can't buy elections, and pursuing campaign contributions may have become counterproductive.

I await yet another pointless and misdirected personal attack from you.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 12:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump congratulates himself for influencing Comey's testimony with White House tapes ruse
Washington Post - 1 hour ago

President Trump gave his first interview in more than a month on Thursday, and the result - airing Friday morning on Fox News - included Trump congratulating himself for his suggestion that there might be tapes of his conversations with former FBI.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/06/23/trump-congratulates-
himself-for-influencing-comeys-testimony-with-white-house-tapes-ruse
/

Trump should not be playing these kind of games if he wants to keep the Special Counsel away from indicting him for obstruction of justice, but Trump won't stop himself from bragging about it on TV. He is asking for trouble.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 12:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND: Yeah, yeah. Whatever.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 12:09 PM

6STRINGJOKER


He's just trolling, like he's known to do.

More evidence that I'm right and there is nothing nefarious going on.

Although at this point I think we've wasted enough taxpayer dollars on this.


Maybe not though.... I'd love for a legitimate investigation to be carried out full force that finds nothing and teaches everybody a lesson about the current state of the MSM.

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Friday, June 23, 2017 12:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
He's just trolling, like he's known to do.

More evidence that I'm right and there is nothing nefarious going on.

Although at this point I think we've wasted enough taxpayer dollars on this.


Maybe not though.... I'd love for a legitimate investigation to be carried out full force that finds nothing and teaches everybody a lesson about the current state of the MSM.

Trump is trolling his spokeswoman in the White House. What's interesting here is that what he said on Fox isn't the official White House position. White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders denied Thursday that Trump's six-week-old tweet about possible tapes was meant to threaten or influence Comey. But then Trump, as he often does (most notably when he suggested to NBC that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation), just went out and basically said it himself.

So who are you going to believe? Trump? Or the White House staff and all Trump's lawyers? You can't believe both because they contradict each other.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 1:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
He's just trolling, like he's known to do.
More evidence that I'm right and there is nothing nefarious going on.
Although at this point I think we've wasted enough taxpayer dollars on this.

And probably enough words.

The reality is that Trump wasn't trying to do anything other than what he campaigned on, so there's nothing secret or nefarious going on, and what we're seeing is the deep state having a shit-fit about it (and spreading anonymous gossip to the willing media) and liberals like SECOND and GSTRING piling on because they just don't like Trump.

A lot of the recent posts don't even have anything to do with "evidens" anyway and don't even belong in this thread, so unless some really spectacular "evidens" shows up in the news or in this thread, I'm outta here. Really, I'm just tired of the same paranoia and whinging.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 1:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The reality is that Trump wasn't trying to do anything other than what he campaigned on, so there's nothing secret or nefarious going on, and what we're seeing is the deep state having a shit-fit about it (and spreading anonymous gossip to the willing media) and liberals like SECOND and GSTRING piling on because they just don't like Trump.

You don't like Trump either. You're pissed that when Trump ran for president, he sounded like a populist. He attacked the elites. He promised to help the working class. He championed economic nationalism, vowing to put America first. "Today we are not just transferring power from one administration to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people."

Now that he’s in office, Trump is governing like a conventional Republican. More privatization, more tax breaks, more spending cuts. He’s hired bankers and billionaires and industry lobbyists to work in DC.

This is not the stuff of Signym's populism dream.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 1:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The reality is that Trump wasn't trying to do anything other than what he campaigned on, so there's nothing secret or nefarious going on, and what we're seeing is the deep state having a shit-fit about it (and spreading anonymous gossip to the willing media) and liberals like SECOND and GSTRING piling on because they just don't like Trump.

You don't like Trump either. You're pissed that when Trump ran for president, he sounded like a populist. He attacked the elites. He promised to help the working class. He championed economic nationalism, vowing to put America first. "Today we are not just transferring power from one administration to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people."

Now that he’s in office, Trump is governing like a conventional Republican. More privatization, more tax breaks, more spending cuts. He’s hired bankers and billionaires and industry lobbyists to work in DC.

This is not the stuff of Signym's populism dream.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Okay, one last response to your ridiculous trolling, which sounds a lot like THUGRS utterly baseless claim that I only recently "changed my position" on Trump. I never thought Trump would, or could, restore the American economy. I've said quite often that he was a loose cannon. I only voted for him on three issues; do you recall what those were? AND YET, BETTER THAN HILLARY.

Wow, you still don't get it, do you SECOND? When will you stop recycling the voices in your head?

I await yet another pointless and deceitful personal attack from you, SECOND, which I most likely won't reply to.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, June 23, 2017 2:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump's Oath! I'm feeling let down by Trump:

Today I take an oath of allegiance to all Americans. For many decades, we’ve enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidised the armies of other countries, while allowing the sad depletion of our own military.

We've defended other nations’ borders while refusing to defend our own.

And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America’s infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.

We have made other countries rich while the wealth, strength and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon.

One by one, shutters have closed on our factories without even a thought about the millions and millions of those who have been left behind.

But that is the past and now we are looking only to the future.

We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital, in every hall of power – from this day on a new vision will govern our land – from this day onwards it is only going to be America first – America first!

Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families.

Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every bone in my body and I will never ever let you down.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trump-inauguration-s
peech-full-transcript-35386639.html

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Friday, June 23, 2017 9:55 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:... or the nation will fall into complete catastrophe and people really WILL choose a strongman...



Then I will win!

I can hoist a 100 poundz over my hed with my rite arm. (about 90 with my left)

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:33 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Don't be modest, Data.

I know you can hoist at least 1,000 lbs over your head. :)

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Friday, June 23, 2017 10:44 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Today on Fox & Friends, Trump said that had he not alerted Comey to the possibility of having been recorded, the former director of the FBI would have lied.

What Trump has yet to grasp is that each time he questions Comey’s integrity, he’s also implicitly questioning the integrity of the FBI officials and Mueller’s team who are currently investigating him.

Trump persistently acts as a man who sees himself as the target of an investigation he wants to thwart, undermine, and swiftly curtail. He has zero interest in assisting the investigation or supporting its conclusions.

He thereby provides compelling reason for the investigators to be tireless, tenacious and resolute in their pursuit of the truth.

http://warincontext.org/2017/06/23/trump-slanders-comey-in-fox-friends
-interview
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 23, 2017 11:51 PM

6STRINGJOKER


They should probably get to it then.

They must be hourly...

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


President Trump has a new morning ritual. Around 6:30 a.m. on many days — before all the network news shows have come on the air — he gets on the phone with a member of his outside legal team to chew over all things Russia.

The calls — detailed by three senior White House officials — are part strategy consultation and part presidential venting session, during which Trump’s lawyers and public-relations gurus take turns reviewing the latest headlines with him. They also devise their plan for battling his avowed enemies: the special counsel leading the Russia investigation; the “fake news” media chronicling it; and, in some instances, the president’s own Justice Department overseeing the probe.

His advisers have encouraged the calls — which the early-to-rise Trump takes from his private quarters in the White House residence — in hopes that he can compartmentalize the widening Russia investigation. By the time the president arrives for work in the Oval Office, the thinking goes, he will no longer be consumed by the Russia probe that he complains hangs over his presidency like a darkening cloud.

It rarely works, however. Asked whether the tactic was effective, one top White House adviser paused for several seconds and then just laughed.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-is-struggling-to-stay-calm-on-ru
ssia-one-morning-call-at-a-time/ar-BBD4bKs?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


It’s not seriously disputed by anyone in a position of authority in the U.S. government — apart from the president himself — that Trump holds his high office in considerable part because a foreign spy agency helped place him there. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell agrees it happened. So does House Speaker Paul Ryan. The House number two, Kevin McCarthy, even joked about it.

There are two stories that when taken together are Evidence. The first story has Republicans opposing action against Russian hacking before the election. The second story has President Trump not taking action against future Russian hacking. The Trump campaign may have been a wholly passive and unwitting beneficiary. But then again, adding the two stories together and you have a single story that Republicans know they gain political advantage from Russian hacking.

1) The intelligence on Putin was extraordinary on multiple levels, including as a feat of espionage.

For spy agencies, gaining insights into the intentions of foreign leaders is among the highest priorities. But Putin is a remarkably elusive target. A former KGB officer, he takes extreme precautions to guard against surveillance, rarely communicating by phone or computer, always running sensitive state business from deep within the confines of the Kremlin.

The Washington Post is withholding some details of the intelligence at the request of the U.S. government.

From a source deep inside the Russian government: Putin’s specific instructions on the operation’s audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage Hillary Clinton and help elect Donald Trump.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell voiced skepticism that the underlying intelligence truly supported the White House’s claims. Key Democrats were stunned by the GOP response and exasperated that Obama let Republican opposition block any pre-election move.

Read the whole thing at
www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-put
in-election-hacking/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_russiaflipper-7a-desktop%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.96c838f9e7c1


2) Trump AWOL On Stopping Next Russian Election Hack
www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/trump-white-house-has-taken-little-
action-stop-next-election-n776116


The Trump administration has taken little meaningful action to prevent Russian hacking, leaking and disruption in the next national election in 2018, despite warnings from intelligence officials that it will happen again, officials and experts told NBC News.

"This attack is really the political equivalent of 9/11 — it is deadly, deadly serious," said Michael Vickers, a career intelligence official who was the Pentagon's top intelligence official in the Obama administration. "The Russians will definitely be back, given the success they had…I don't see much evidence of a response."


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:11 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
President Trump has a new morning ritual. Around 6:30 a.m. on many days — before all the network news shows have come on the air — he gets on the phone with a member of his outside legal team to chew over all things Russia.

The calls — detailed by three senior White House officials — are part strategy consultation and part presidential venting session, during which Trump’s lawyers and public-relations gurus take turns reviewing the latest headlines with him. They also devise their plan for battling his avowed enemies: the special counsel leading the Russia investigation; the “fake news” media chronicling it; and, in some instances, the president’s own Justice Department overseeing the probe.

His advisers have encouraged the calls — which the early-to-rise Trump takes from his private quarters in the White House residence — in hopes that he can compartmentalize the widening Russia investigation. By the time the president arrives for work in the Oval Office, the thinking goes, he will no longer be consumed by the Russia probe that he complains hangs over his presidency like a darkening cloud.

It rarely works, however. Asked whether the tactic was effective, one top White House adviser paused for several seconds and then just laughed.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-is-struggling-to-stay-calm-on-ru
ssia-one-morning-call-at-a-time/ar-BBD4bKs?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp



Yeah... That sounds like it happened.

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Yeah... That sounds like it happened.

Trump is not giving the orders that need to be given to prevent future Russian hacking of the 2018 election, 16 months from now. Trump has shown no interest in the question of how to prevent future election interference by Russia or another foreign power. I'd call that Evidence. Or "Evidens" however you spell it.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/trump-white-house-has-taken-little-
action-stop-next-election-n776116


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:00 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by second:...
There are two stories that when taken together are Evidence...



You shoud edit to ad "Post #9" to that.

I had to go all the way back to paje 6 to find wut number we are on.

I got that newz from Rachel Maddow and wuz going to post a link here, but its the same story.

I mulling over wether to post my opinion in forumz or on my website. America haz sum serious thinking to do.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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