REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"Evidens". So, where are we now?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, October 23, 2017 15:44
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Saturday, July 15, 2017 1:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, basically what YOU'RE saying is a very Condi Rice/ Eric Holder interpretation of Presidential powers: If the President does it, it's legal. That's a different question, and a great evasion of my question. I'm not asking for a legal interpretation of events, just your reaction to a similar situation involving different people, one more sympatico than the other.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 15, 2017 2:10 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, basically what YOU'RE saying is a very Condi Rice/ Eric Holder interpretation of Presidential powers: If the President does it, it's legal. That's a different question, and a great evasion of my question. I'm not asking for a legal interpretation of events, just your reaction to a similar situation involving different people, one more sympatico than the other.

Send Chelsea Clinton to prison. How about that for my reaction to your thought experiment?

Signym should begin arguing, starting today, that Trump's 1 blanket pardon is inconsequential compared to Obama's 212 pardons, Bill Clinton's 396, Jimmy Carter's 534, and Lyndon Johnson's 960. That ought to make those unreasonable Democrats shut up about Trump's 1 little blanket pardon for everyone connected to the Russian hack.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, July 15, 2017 8:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Send Chelsea Clinton to prison. How about that for my reaction to your thought experiment? - SECOND
At least you're consistent!



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Sunday, July 16, 2017 8:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Send Chelsea Clinton to prison. How about that for my reaction to your thought experiment? - SECOND
At least you're consistent!

Signym, you forgot to comment on Trump pardoning Junior.

This Saturday, Trump claimed Russian hacking is a hoax.

This Sunday, Trump blamed the media for Junior’s troubles.

On Monday, Trump should give a Presidential pardon to Junior. It’s perfectly legal!

On Tuesday, the media will stop the Fake News and instead cover Trump’s Real News: the high stock market and high job numbers as revealed in his tweets.

Stock Market hit another all-time high yesterday - despite the Russian hoax story! Also, jobs numbers are starting to look very good!
9:30 AM - 15 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/886261674029854721

HillaryClinton can illegally get the questions to the Debate & delete 33,000 emails but my son Don is being scorned by the Fake News Media?
3:35 AM - 16 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/886534810575020032

I think a Presidential pardon for Trump Jr will be a great way to save the taxpayers’ money being wasted on the Russian hoax. There is nothing to investigate if nobody can be charged with a crime.

Signym, do you think that Trump's blanket pardon for Junior is a great idea?

What difference does one little pardon make compared to Obama's 212 pardons, Bill Clinton's 396, Jimmy Carter's 534, and Lyndon Johnson's 960?
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/20/obama-used-more-clemency-powe
r
/

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Sunday, July 16, 2017 8:34 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I'll give you my reaction to this in a bit, but I want to hear what you think first about the direct comparison.




I did - read it again.

Another reaction is for someone who said they didn't like Trump and that they knew voting for him would mean we'd have to do a lot of work, you sure spend a lot of time talking about everything other than those things. Geee, let me guess why... more deflection? Naw! Couldn't be! You sound a lot like FoxNews lately, rolling out the same Trump defenses again and again. You've even started down the path of first saying, "there was zero collusion, none, nada." to "there's no law against collusion! It's okay to collude with another super power. Hillary did!"

==============================

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Sunday, July 16, 2017 2:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yanno GSTRING, we'd probably get along a lot better if you would STOP trying to stuff words into my mouth. Really!

Ok, you said
Quote:

they would both be bad.
SECOND would throw Chelsea in jail. Back to that in a bit.*

Quote:

Another reaction is for someone who said they didn't like Trump and that they knew voting for him would mean we'd have to do a lot of work, you sure spend a lot of time talking about everything other than those things.
Maybe because I'm responding to IDIOTS who keep thumping the "Russia" card?

How many times have I asked you to discuss America's interests??? How many times have I tried to DRAG the conversation off Russia, or the size of Trump's hands, or whether or not Macron might have been laughing at Trump, and any number of "important" items that you (collectively) bring up, to change the focus to things like: What's really HAPPENING with our foreign policy (not the ghafla being tossed out for idiots)? What's really happening with our economy (such as it is)? What are the options for moving healthcare and the environment in a better direction?

You all sure seem to have excuses at-hand to avoid discussing anything real; mainly you just want to flog your latest (mostly irrelevant) obsession about Syria or Russia or the Ukraine or some anonymous and soon-to-be-retracted tidbit. You people are addicted to bullshit; did you know that? Not one of you can talk intelligently about anything real, like production amounts, or the real unemployment rate, or military strategy, or cybersecurity, or geopolitics, or finance, or ... anything.

Quote:

Geee, let me guess why... more deflection?
Yes, FROM YOU.

Quote:

You've even started down the path of first saying, "there was zero collusion, none, nada." to "there's no law against collusion! It's okay to collude with another super power. Hillary did!"
More misdirected trolling from GSTRING.

* FIRST, DEFINE COLLUSION. It's a crime, you know; so there must be something in the books somewhere that will give you a hint.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Sunday, July 16, 2017 3:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


There is evidence that Trump's lawyer LIED today and the Secret Service confirmed the lawyer LIED. If you're more forgiving than me, you would say Trump's lawyer gave a misleading statement on TV, but whatever you prefer, we will be seeing more lying/misleading from Trumpworld:

One of President Donald Trump's personal lawyers defended a meeting that the president's son had with Russian nationals during the 2016 campaign, suggesting that the meeting involving Donald Trump Jr. had been screened by the Secret Service.

"Well, I wonder why the Secret Service, if this was nefarious, why the Secret Service allowed these people in. The president had Secret Service protection at that point, and that raised a question with me," Jay Sekulow, a member of Trump's legal team, said on Sunday on the ABC news program "This Week."

In an emailed response to questions about Sekulow's comments, Secret Service spokesman Mason Brayman said that the younger Trump was not under Secret Service protection at the time of the June 2016 meeting that included Trump's son and two senior campaign officials.

"Donald Trump, Jr. was not a protectee of the USSS in June, 2016. Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time," the emailed statement said.

Sekulow's comments drew quick criticism, including from Frances Townsend, who advised Republican former president George W. Bush on homeland security.

"Ok let's try to deflect blame & throw those in @SecretService who protect @POTUS @realDonaldTrump @FLOTUS & family under the bus," she said on Twitter.

The Secret Service's mission is to provide physical protection for the U.S. president. The agency also protects major presidential candidates. But its role in vetting people who meet with a U.S. president or a candidates is limited to ensuring physical safety.

www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1A10Q9

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Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There's evidence that Obama lied. There's evidence that GWB lied. There's evidence that Hillary lied. And Brennan (CIA), and Clapper (NSA). Not little white lies but big, fat, nasty, consequential whoppers.

If "lying" was a crime, every single person in the USA would be in jail, right?

So, where's the crime?

*******

Here's my point: People in office have different views of things. Hillary, as far as I can tell, was much more comfortable working with the Saudis and less comfortable with with the Russians, and with Trump seems more comfortable working with the Russians and very uncomfortable working with the Iranians. But being a major power among nations, we have to work with ALL nations at some point or another, especially where our interests either overlap or conflict.


"Convicting" someone in the court of your own opinion on the basis that someone had "meetings" or "contacts" or "conversation" "business dealings" with another nation is ... I dunno ... childish? NONE of those activities are "crimes" in and of themselves; it's more important, I think, to know WHAT happened in those meetings and whether or not America's interests were betrayed. It's very possible that those "meetings" and "contacts" and "business dealings" actually FURTHERED American interests, but you will never be able to form a reasonable opinion about that unless you put away your paranoid fears and think about it. Nations don't have "friends" or "enemies", they have interests. Reacting to other nations as if this was junior-high does a disservice to our nation.

So, what are America's interests?


"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Monday, July 17, 2017 2:06 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, what are America's interests?

What truly kicked the Trump-Russia story into high gear was when the president went from dismissive tweets about the ongoing FBI investigation to firing the FBI director, having his administration lie about why he’d fired the FBI director, and then going on national television and admitting to NBC News’s Lester Holt that “when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.’”

Of all the many potential lines of inquiry into Trump’s conduct as president, Russia is the one we have an official investigation of, not because it’s the only topic that matters but because it’s the one topic that a handful of Republican Russia hawks in Congress care about enough to provide some check on Trump’s power.

But even if you don’t care about the specifics, the question it raises — can the president act as, at best, an accessory after the fact to crimes that hurt his political adversaries while blocking investigations into potential criminal conduct on the part of his friends — is quite general. It’s the question, in effect, of whether the American government works for the American people or works for Trump personally. The view that it works for Trump personally underwrites everything from his tax proposals to his indifference to his own health care promises to his casual day-to-day marination in obvious financial conflicts of interest.

Russia, in part through happenstance, happens to be where the rubber is hitting the road. But the whole truck is riding on those tires.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/17/15976576/trump-russia-distra
ction-policy

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Monday, July 17, 2017 3:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So, what are America's interests?- SIGNY

What truly kicked the Trump-Russia story into high gear was when the president went from dismissive tweets about the ongoing FBI investigation to firing the FBI director, having his administration lie about why he’d fired the FBI director, and then going on national television and admitting to NBC News’s Lester Holt that “when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.’”

Of all the many potential lines of inquiry into Trump’s conduct as president, Russia is the one we have an official investigation of, not because it’s the only topic that matters but because it’s the one topic that a handful of Republican Russia hawks in Congress care about enough to provide some check on Trump’s power. - SECOND

Hold that thought.

Quote:

But even if you don’t care about the specifics, the question it raises — can the president act as, at best, an accessory after the fact to crimes...
WHAT crimes? That's the point where GSTRING and THUGR get stuck ... can't even formulate what charges might be brought, but they're sure Trump is guilty!

Talking to a Russian is not "collusion". Even if you were to say that Jr's meeting indicates a willingness to collude, "willingness" to collude IS NOT A CRIME. Unless, of course, you fall into that group of people - like GSTRING and THUGR - who believe that "wrong thinking" is a crime.

Here's another thought: LYING ... even lying on TV ... is not a crime! Unless you're under oath, or have signed a document, or in some other specific circumstances, (libel, fraud) lying, by itself, is NOT A CRIME.

Real life example: I was certain that many people in the GWB administration lied their asses off, knowingly and deliberately, about Saddam's so-called WMD. Lied morning, noon, and night, to the American media, the American people, the UN, and our allies. They were deliberate lies that got somewhere between 100,000- 1 million civilians killed, thousands of US service and contracted security staff killed or disabled, destablized the entire mideast, and cost over a trillion dollars, and we're STILL paying for those lies!

But where's the crime? What do you charge those individuals with?


Quote:

Russia, in part through happenstance, happens to be where the rubber is hitting the road. But the whole truck is riding on those tires. - SECOND
"Russia" is a complete distraction. It is, by your admission, only an EXCUSE to get rid of a President that you (understandably) despise (like ... yanno, kind of like trying to get rid of Obama because he's a Kenyan Muslim socialist ... but there's nothing legal or even rational about your POV. You've been whipped into a lynch mob, and are willing to overturn legal and political protections in your frenzy to "get" Trump. It's nothing but a soft coup, and every time you roll back the protections on which our democracy and civil liberties rest, they will never return, absent a revolution.

I know that it seems slow and ineffective and counterproductive to mince along, when you feel that there are so many bad things that Trump has done (or might do, which BTW also not a crime) but that's the way our system is constructed: Innocent until proven guilty. I hope you're not willing to overturn THAT, in your eagerness to gain your partisan objectives.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Monday, July 17, 2017 3:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, having been accused by GSTRING (of all people!) of "deflecting" from the more important stories of the Trump administration in favor of focusing on "Russia" ... ... this topic is going to go further down on my list of priorities.

You guys can rant and whip yourselves into an even more frenzied lynch mob, if that's possible, but I've come to the conclusion that nobody can have a one-sided rational conversation.

For the record, whenever GSTRING says about about me, or puts words in my mouth, he is lying and trolling. Example

Quote:

Siggy and Kiggy don't really believe Hillary was going to start WWIII. That's a convenient lie. There might be a slim chance that they believed had she won, Putin would have started WWIII. Otherwise, it's just another weak bogey man to cover their support for Trump.

Siggy believes Trump was the worst choice for the US and the best choice for Russia. That he will do serious damage to the US - payback or something. - GSTGRING


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61760&p=3

He's become completely delusional about me.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:11 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT crimes? That's the point where GSTRING and THUGR get stuck ... can't even formulate what charges might be brought, but they're sure Trump is guilty!

Talking to a Russian is not "collusion". Even if you were to say that Jr's meeting indicates a willingness to collude, "willingness" to collude IS NOT A CRIME. Unless, of course, you fall into that group of people - like GSTRING and THUGR - who believe that "wrong thinking" is a crime.

Real life example: I was certain that many people in the GWB administration lied their asses off, knowingly and deliberately, about Saddam's so-called WMD. Lied morning, noon, and night, to the American media, the American people, the UN, and our allies. They were deliberate lies that got somewhere between 100,000- 1 million civilians killed, thousands of US service and contracted security staff killed or disabled, destablized the entire mideast, and cost over a trillion dollars, and we're STILL paying for those lies!

But where's the crime? What do you charge those individuals with?

It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.

That’s a crime.

One of the core functions of government is to attempt to catch and punish criminals in order to deter crimes. But Trump clearly has had no interest in catching, punishing, and deterring the perpetrators of this crime.

Trump’s response has ranged from gleeful embrace of the crime (“I love WikiLeaks”) to blaming Barack Obama, suggesting Russia is maybe innocent, comparing the CIA to Nazis, and — of course — dismissing the whole thing as “fake news.” He thinks hacks that helped him win should go un-investigated and FBI directors who defy his desire to block the investigation should be fired.

I finally get Signym's point about no "crime" was committed. There was no incompetence, no malfeasance, nothing evil or immoral or wrong or even unethical because there is no "crime" definition in the law books for what Trump did. Since Trump committed no "crime" there should be no "punishment". By "punishment" Signym means calling Trump a criminal. Sticks and stones will break Trump's bones but calling him criminal will never hurt him.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

.... It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.= SECOND
If this is such a slam-dunk "crime", then why hasn't it been prosecuted? And why hasn't the FBI been given access to the DNC server itself? (My guess is that even if given access now, because the server has been under DNC control for so long, there is the suspicion that the DNC itself might have altered the evidence since the hack.)

What our security agencies are relying on is the analysis by CrowdStrike. In essence, hearsay.

So,

1) Attributions are extremely difficult to prove, for technical reasons
2) But it is impossible to attribute anything to anybody without examining tghe hardware in question, and none of our alphabet security agencies have been able to examine the DNC server specifically. (Why is that, DNC? Evidence of other crimes on the server? Maybe you should ask Hillary how the bleach bit your server?)
3) Julian Assange himself said that the source of the files ... the actual person ... was not a Russian.

None of your "evidence" is going to court because it would NEVER stand up.


******

What's really difficult to remember that even before this, Hillary was found to have an unsecured server on which she commingled State Dept and "personal" emails, then had 33,000 "personal" emails Bleach Bitted while under subpoena to make them technically impossible to recover.

I'll repeat the technical explanation here just because it's so interesting:

****
The "head" of the hard drive, which reads and writes data, wobbles just a fraction due to temperature differences, vibrations etc, so instead of writing data in an extremely narrow track it tends to create a broader band of data. When you "delete file" you don't actually erase the data, you just delete the pointer to where the data can be found, but a bit-by-bit examination of the hard drive - extremely easy to accomplish as there are disk recovery software utilities for that - can still recover the information, albeit you have to unscramble it yourself.

In order to "erase" a file from ORDINARY disk recovery techniques, you have to actually "overwrite" the data with zeros (or ones).

Now, it's still possible to recover the data using forensic techniques by examining the "side bands" of the track to look for the data that was written a bit off to the side. It is an extremely weak signal and you need extra-fine control of the head, so this is something that only a forensic lab can do.

If you want to erase data so NOBODY can recover it, you "overwrite" the disk many multiple times ... dozens of times. That way, the inherent "wobble" in the head ensure that not only is the main track overwritten, but so is the faint record off to the side.

ANYBODY USING THAT TECHNIQUE (Bleach Bit is software that does that for you) intends to hide data, not only from ordinary disk recovery techniques but also from detailed forensic FBI-style examination.

***

Aside from the fact that Hillary was never charged with obstruction of justice (Why not, Lynch and Comey?) all of her potential accomplices were granted immunity, which is a significant deviation from normal investigative procedure. It's almost as if the FBI were granting pardons.

You keep scrambling looking for some crime in which it would be difficult to prosecute under ordinary circumstances ... and impossible to prosecute unless the FBI itself gets to examine the evidence... but you keep ignoring the big fat fly stuck gobsmack in the middle of your plate.

As I have said many times over, Hillary and Trump are ethical equivalents (and don't make me pull up my old quotes, because you know I will), with Trump getting slight edge because he has had less time in government to be corrupt.

But just to recap my point to your post: "Crime?" "Evidence"? Phfffft!




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:56 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He's become completely delusional about me.



That's a tell - that I'm the William Tell of FFF forum observations.

Sorry doll, you are without question a Putin/Trump stooge, and only the Trump part because it aids Putin. Supporting Trump goes against almost everything you espoused so profusely in the past, with tens of thousands of words of anger and outrage, all now signifying nothing. I imagine the same will be true of everything you are posting now in a few years.

==============================

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

As I have said many times over, Hillary and Trump are ethical equivalents (and don't make me pull up my old quotes, because you know I will), with Trump getting slight edge because he has had less time in government to be corrupt.

Firefly murderer Rupert Murdoch's most prestigious outlet, the Wall Street Journal, ran an eye-popping editorial in its conservative-leaning opinion pages on Tuesday.

Titled "The Trumps and the Truth," the editorial scolded the president's family for withholding information about Russia-related meetings and discussions.

It said the political realities of Washington "will destroy Mr. Trump, his family and their business reputation unless they change their strategy toward the Russia probe. They don't have much more time to do it."

The editorial also said that "denouncing leaks as 'fake news' won't wash as a counter-strategy beyond the President's base, as Mr. Trump's latest 36% approval rating shows."

It was the latest in a series of eyebrow-raising editorials. Last week Murdoch's New York tabloid, the New York Post, labeled Donald Trump Jr. an "idiot" and "criminally stupid."

Murdoch and Trump have had a complex but often mutually beneficial relationship for many years.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/media/rupert-murdoch-president-trump-e
ditorials/index.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But you have to wonder, SECOND .... well, you SHOULD wonder, anyway ... why is DC so hell-bent on destroying Trump?

It's a fact which has gone from being denied ("Trump's crazy" "There's no such thing as a deep state") to suddenly being accepted, without ever having been questioned or examined in the transition.

But that's propaganda for you: to make the obvious disappear.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But you have to wonder, SECOND .... well, you SHOULD wonder, anyway ... why is DC so hell-bent on destroying Trump?

It's a fact which has gone from being denied ("Trump's crazy" "There's no such thing as a deep state") to suddenly being accepted, without ever having been questioned or examined in the transition.

But that's propaganda for you: to make the obvious disappear.

If you lived in Texas you would see this for what it is. The Texas Republicans hate all things connected to the Democratic party. It is payback time.

This week the Republican governor's priority in the special legislative session is to pass a law to prevent the spreading of "communism" and "collectivization" in city government -- the governor hates, Hates, HATES WITH CRAZY PASSION an ordinance about tree cutting in Houston, a city with a Democrat for mayor. The Republican mind is deeply disturbed by everything about Democrats.

The Democratic party is paying back the Republicans for decades of Republicans' crazy hatred. Trump's troubles are his fault, not the Democrats, who are simply and gleefully pointing out Trump is a jackass. He was before election and nothing about the office changed him for the better. Trump deserves the Democrats not cooperating with him in any way. The Republicans did the same to Obama. Trump stomps on all their priorities and the GOP is still accusing Hillary of murdering Vince Foster and raging about Hillary's email.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, I guess my point was lost in translation.

The wonderment (to me) isn't that the establishment (however defined) is "after Trump", it's that the widely disseminated VIEW of this went from total denial ...
Not happening.
Trump is just tweeting crazy-tweets about "fake news" and being "bugged".
This is all alt-right conspiracy-talk


to, according the the WSJ: So, what is Trump going to do about being targeted?

This focused campaign against Trump went from being disparaged as an "alt-right conspiracy theory" in the MSM to suddenly(!) being an unquestioned reality. But how can that the MSM do a complete turnaround without being made to address their old narrative ... either to bury it ("We were wrong") or to modify it?

I can't tell what's more disturbing ... the fact that the MSM is so adroit at "framing" the issues, or the fact that people didn't even notice that the framing suddenly changed. It's like nobody ever looks back with any sort of insight and says to themselves ... Well, yesterday I was sure that Trump was just being an idiot, and today I assume that he's being targeted.

It's the same way that people can not be thinking about "Saddam's WMD" one day, and two months later that's ALL that they're thinking about. I mean, how stupid ARE people, when they don't even noticed that their own personal responses are being manipulated?

Doesn't anyone have a memory of what they were thinking last week, or last month, or last year, and wonder why they're suddenly focusing on something different?

There is an sailing analogy that comes to mind. It has to do with telling what direction you're going on, and whether or not you're still heading on course, or whether you're going in circles.

Back in the old days of sailing ships ... yanno, before GPS ... how did ships stay on-course with no landmarks in sight?

Well, there was the compass, good to a few degrees plus or minus. They also had the sextant to give them latitude. And of course the sun setting and rising gave them more-or-less east-west directionality, as well as the westerly wind. And IF they had a very accurate clock, they could use that (plus sunrise/ sunset time) to estimate their longitude.

But WHAT IF they were fogged in, for days or weeks at a time, as sometimes happened? What if they were in a zone of magnetic anomaly? What if NO accurate measurements could be taken? How did they know they weren't just sailing around in circles, as sometimes happened? Or might miss that tiny island in the ocean, where they needed to pick up water? Supplies were limited; it was a life-and-death question. So what did they do?

Well, they threw a VERY long line over the stern. If the rope stayed straight, they knew they were sailing in a straight line. If the rope curved, they knew they had changed direction. They could tell where they were going by measuring it against where they had been, at least for that length of rope.

See the analogy? People haven't even tossed that rope over the stern to test whether their focus today was the same as yesterday, and .... if it had changed ... to try to determine WHY it had changed. To look for clues in their media environment to see if IT had changed.

Its like everyone is depending on the GPS of the media to tell them what's important, what's real, what to look at. There seem to be no other frames of reference - no moral compass, no historic landmarks, no test against reality, and not even the memory of what they were thinking last week or last month to tell them what direction they're going in. The people who control the GPS signal control the people who depend on it.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I guess my point was lost in translation.
. . . It's like everyone is depending on the GPS of the media to tell them what's important, what's real, what to look at. There seem to be no other frames of reference - no moral compass, no historic landmarks, no test against reality, and not even the memory of what they were thinking last week or last month to tell them what direction they're going in. The people who control the GPS signal control the people who depend on it.

Would have been quicker for you to do a Game of Thrones instead of a nautical reference:
"In the Citadel, we lead different lives for different reasons. We are this world's memory, Samwell Tarly. Without us, men would be little better than dogs. Don't remember any meal but the last, can't see forward to any but the next. And every time you leave the house and shut the door, they howl like you're gone forever."

www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6nvj7i/spoilers_extended_could_the_ma
estersthe_citadel
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I like my analogy better. We're sailors in a mostly unknown sea, not dogs.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 11:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I like my analogy better. We're sailors in a mostly unknown sea, not dogs.

You have excessive faith that the average person has common sense. Perhaps if you had more real world experience with people under stress you would see that your nautical analogies about people solving their problem does not apply to average people. May I suggest you read "What not to do in a disaster"? People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc. (I've seen every one of these examples of magical thinking by people in trouble. I've not yet seen a miracle, although religion does ease some of their pain.)
www.bbc.com/future/story/20170711-what-not-to-do-in-a-disaster

I liked Kevin Drum's analog of Trump is the Godfather engaged in a mob war:

Trump Is “Curious” About His Pardoning Power
by Kevin Drum
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/07/donald-trump-is-curious-about-h
is-pardoning-power
/

From a Washington Post story today about the Trump-Russia investigation:

Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people….But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority, as well as the limits of Mueller’s investigation.

He’s just curious! I mean, who wouldn’t be? Then there’s this:

Trump has been fuming about the probe in recent weeks as he has been informed about the legal questions that he and his family could face. His primary frustration centers on why allegations that his campaign coordinated with Russia should spread into scrutinizing many years of Trump dealmaking. He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Those tax returns must really be toxic. I wonder what’s in them that Trump is so hellbent on keeping secret? It must be something pretty spectacular. Here’s the New York Times:

President Trump’s lawyers and aides are scouring the professional and political backgrounds of investigators hired by the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, looking for conflicts of interest they could use to discredit the investigation — or even build a case to fire Mr. Mueller or get some members of his team recused, according to three people with knowledge of the research effort.

The search for potential conflicts is wide-ranging. It includes scrutinizing donations to Democratic candidates, investigators’ past clients and Mr. Mueller’s relationship with James B. Comey, whose firing as F.B.I. director is part of the special counsel’s investigation.

Trump seems to be treating this whole thing like a mob war. And maybe he’s right to do so. It just makes you wonder what he knows that we don’t. And now you know why they call him "Don Trumpleone".

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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Can Trump Pardon Himself?
If the current president has proved anything, it’s that there’s a first time for everything.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/19/what-would-happen-if-trump-pardone
d-himself-mueller-russia-investigation
/

No president has ever tried to pardon himself, let alone been prosecuted after trying to pardon himself, so no court has had a chance to rule on the validity of self-pardons. Nixon considered pardoning himself just before he resigned. His lawyer advised him that he had the power, but Nixon decided against it. President Bill Clinton rendered the issue moot by reaching a settlement with his special prosecutor the day before he left office (and pardoned 140 people other than himself).

No president in recent memory has been as likely to answer the establishment’s gasps (“You can’t do that!”) with defiance (“I just did!”). As such, if push comes to shove — if he ever fears being prosecuted and he is on his way out of office — it is easy to imagine President Trump giving self-pardoning a try. There is no precedent that says he cannot pardon himself and a decent legal argument that says he can.

There are two questions on the table. First, might Trump pardon himself? It is far too early to speculate about him facing criminal liability, but he certainly acts like someone who wouldn’t hesitate to deliver himself such a plum.

Second, if Trump did it, what would happen? This question is easier to answer. If he weren’t already on his way out of office, a self-pardon would bring nearer that day. Any prosecutor who was already pursuing him would not roll over and assume that the self-pardon was valid. Instead, the prosecutor would press forward and force the courts — and surely the Supreme Court, eventually — to decide the issue. The court could potentially rule either way. But one would hope it would rule in favor of justice and the rule of law and not in favor of unaccountable presidential plunder.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 2:01 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?

The deal is that every President is under tremendous scrutiny. Obama was covered day and night, but as soon as he left office, he could barely get any coverage. Once retired, he goes on a long, exotic vacation and there is close to nothing in the news. Everything a President does gets covered and most of the coverage is gossip. Why Republicans get upset is they can't remember that this is how it is done. Is it really unfair that every dumb thing a President does gets commented on?

Trump is talking about another dumb stunt, which will get him gossiped about:
Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:16 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?

The deal is that every President is under tremendous scrutiny. Obama was covered day and night, but as soon as he left office, he could barely get any coverage. Once retired, he goes on a long, exotic vacation and there is close to nothing in the news. Everything a President does gets covered and most of the coverage is gossip. Why Republicans get upset is they can't remember that this is how it is done. Is it really unfair that every dumb thing a President does gets commented on?

Trump is talking about another dumb stunt, which will get him gossiped about:
Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp



Aside from Fox News and a few other online outlets, everything ever said about Obama in the press was good. Always. Every time. Not only was he a Democrat, but he was the first black president on top of it.

8 years committing the same war crimes I used to rally with the Democrats against GWB for and they didn't cover it at all.

Now the same shit is still happening and nobody at all is bitching about it because every day is filled with bullshit and speculation about something that may or may not have even happened.

I don't know who is really in power or what their end game is, but they sure know how to pull everybody's strings.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.




Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.



“Who attacks their entire Justice Department? It’s insane.”

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:37 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.




Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


1kiki, did you notice that you posted the same comment twice in an hour? Do you recall that last year you were playacting the role of the Hillary-hating lefty while Signym plays the righty? Did you get confused and accidentally speak Signym's lines in the script? A true lefty doesn't do what you do. Wake up Signym, the committed Trump supporter, to handle this job for you.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.




Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


1kiki, that's three times in a row you posted the same comment and yet you have not explained why you, a Hillary-hating lefty, has become a staunch supporter of Trump. You were supporting Bernie Sanders!

Have you forgotten? Or have you always been really Signym using an alternate name?

Bernie takes responibility for killing Trump's bill
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/19/bernie_sanders_if_president
_trump_wants_to_blame_me_for_killing_obamacare_repeal_bill_i_accept_that_responsibility_completely.html

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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc. - SECOND
And some people believe in Magical Democrats to save them from Evil Rethuglicans. That's you, SECOND. Another victim, frozen in magical thinking.

TRUMP ENDED OBAMA'S SECRET CIA PROGRAM OF FUNDING AND ARMING JIHADISTS IN SYRIA. This is surely a positive step away from Obama's confused "secret" CIA-backed (deep state) programs of drone strikes, foreign government destruction, and using jihadists as proxy forces in the Mideast. It's a good thing - right?

TRUMP BACKED OUT OF THE TTP. Another good thing. Right?

TRUMP REVERSED THE FLOW OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Another good thing, especially if combined with a (new) non-interventionist foreign policy and multi-national economic approach.

TRUMP BLOCKS TRAVELERS FROM NATIONS KNOWN TO EXPORT TERRORISTS, until better vetting procedures can be established. How can that be a BAD thing?


Dems are not the saintly political actors that you'd like to believe, SECOND. Most of them have their hands deeply into the pockets of transnational corporations, whom they mostly represent. Pacifying the people with crumbs ("handouts") while feasting the elite ... kinda slimy, don'tcha think? And Republicans aren't the lizard-men that you believe. Some of their proposals are very necessary. We need to re-industrialize our nation, stop antagonizing everyone in our neverending quest to dominate the whole world, and give people agency in their own lives again, as well as mitigate/ prepare for climate change.

Only the Libertarians have broken out of the DEM-GOP duality, and I only agree with THEM 50% of the times. But we need to get out of this Punch-and-Judy show.

By the way, I recall when someone else (it may have been FREM, but I don't recall exactly who) was posting the exact same thing to me. They even called it the Punch and Judy show. I remember feeling offended and horrified that anyone could imagine that democrats and republicans were so interchangeable that it didn't matter who was Punch and who was Judy. But I'll tell you, Bill and Obama and Hillary really opened my eyes.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:18 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
1kiki, that's three times in a row you posted the same comment and yet you have not explained why you, a Hillary-hating lefty, has become a staunch supporter of Trump. You were supporting Bernie Sanders!

Have you forgotten? Or have you always been really Signym using an alternate name?

Bernie takes responibility for killing Trump's bill
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/19/bernie_sanders_if_president
_trump_wants_to_blame_me_for_killing_obamacare_repeal_bill_i_accept_that_responsibility_completely.html









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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently, Rand Paul and I agree on two things, this being one:

Quote:

“Everyday I wake up and say, ‘It could have been Hillary'”

Kentucky Senator Rand Paul may have some issues with President Donald Trump, but at least it’s not President Hillary.

The former Republican presidential candidate said he’s grateful every morning we’re not under Hillary’s rule, which would likely have resulted in “war everywhere,” including against American businesses.

“I always compare. Every day, I wake up, and I say, ‘It could have been Hillary Clinton,’” Paul told Fox & Friends Thursday.

“We could be at war in the Middle East because Hillary Clinton wanted to go to war everywhere, and she would be at war with American business. It could be terrible, and I think Trump’s doing a much better job than we would have gotten.”



https://www.infowars.com/rand-paul-grateful-for-trump-everyday-i-wake-
up-and-say-it-could-have-been-hillary
/

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 2:31 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
TRUMP ENDED OBAMA'S SECRET CIA PROGRAM OF FUNDING AND ARMING JIHADISTS IN SYRIA. This is surely a positive step away from Obama's confused "secret" CIA-backed (deep state) programs of drone strikes, foreign government destruction, and using jihadists as proxy forces in the Mideast. It's a good thing - right?




So now all of a sudden Trump is controlling the Deep State?? I thought you said the opposite? They sure are handy to have around - they can be whatever you need them to be whenever you need it.

==============================

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Friday, July 21, 2017 7:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So now all of a sudden Trump is controlling the Deep State?? I thought you said the opposite? They sure are handy to have around - they can be whatever you need them to be whenever you need it. - GSTRING
Uh, no, son. 100% wrong.

Apparently you haven't understood even a tiny fraction of my thoughts on the topic.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 11:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
blah blah blah ...

Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.





Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

US Launching Sunday Raids To Arrest Illegal Immigrant Gang Members

With Trump desperate for a distraction from the daily Russian collusion media onslaught, and perhaps under the advice of his brand new counsel, Reuters reports that U.S. immigration agents are set to launch nationwide raids next week to arrest teenagers who entered the country without guardians and are suspected gang members, as part of President Donald Trump's crackdown on illegal immigrants. The raids, targeting teenagers 16 and 17-years-old, will begin on Sunday and continue through Wednesday.

I'm sure liberals are wringing their hands already.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I'm sure liberals are wringing their hands already.

The pattern is so familiar that it almost starts to feel rational. Nearly every day it’s gone like this: The president or someone in his administration does something previously unthinkable, then legal pundits take to Twitter and the airwaves to ponder whether it was legal or constitutional or criminally prosecutable.

Can the president truly continue to enrich himself and his family by leveraging his office to benefit from foreigners? Can the president really fire the FBI director and admit he was thinking about the Russia probe while doing it?

Today, we have a new set of questions to toss on the pile: Can the president really pardon himself and all his friends, family, neighbors, and pets, plus fire Robert Mueller, plus threaten his attorney general?

More often than not the answer is: “norms, not laws.”

While there may or may not be specific constitutional or statutory bulwarks that prohibit what the president does every day, each time we chase them down, the formal answer is either a lawyerly “it depends” or an even more lawyerly “it depends what the courts will say.”

The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.

The Framers erected an edifice of law intended to constrain power, and the president believes that framework is made of spun sugar and cobwebs. Norms are for losers, and laws are for poor people. And now Trump has his dream team of mob lawyers and mad dogs hard at work proving that the only lawyer without a disabling conflict of interest is the one pledging fealty to him.

If Trump fires Mueller on a slender pretext of bias and conflicts of interest, or if he pardons himself and his supporters pre-emptively, it’s just not clear what the next lawsuit looks like or even whether the fixes—which are political and not legal in most instances—will manifest themselves.

There is an inspiring, entrenched public certainty that “the law” can fix everything.

And this is a problem because Americans (myself excluded) are prey to a form of magical thinking about law and the Constitution. The Framers believed the law would fix it, and that makes it easy to hope that the lawyers will fix it. The lawyers became the wizards, and the Constitution became a book of spells, and the best thing a citizen could hope to do is make a donation to a group of lawyers who could perform the right incantations and save democracy.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/lawyers
_and_the_constitution_alone_won_t_save_us_from_donald_trump.html

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND
There you go, thinking with your hormones again.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 1:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND
There you go, thinking with your hormones again.

Trump was obsessed with Hillary this morning. Not his hormones. More likely he was feeling inferior:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
So many people are asking why isn't the A.G. or Special Council looking at the many Hillary Clinton or Comey crimes. 33,000 e-mails deleted?
6:44 AM - 22 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/888726438265966592

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
...What about all of the Clinton ties to Russia, including Podesta Company, Uranium deal, Russian Reset, big dollar speeches etc.
6:47 AM - 22 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/888727293346156546

Trump is preoccupied with Hillary because she ruined his victory: he still can’t stand the thought that she got several million more votes than he did. I suspect the same is true of James Comey. Sure, he wanted Comey to help him out with the Michael Flynn investigation, but Comey’s real sin was being a living, breathing, daily reminder that Trump won only because Comey helped him out with his last-minute letter about the email investigation. This gnawed endlessly at Trump, so Comey had to go.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND RATE
Trump is preoccupied with Hillary because she ruined his victory: he still can’t stand the thought that she got several million more votes than he did.

If I were to get anything out of Trump's tweets, it's that he's being subjected to a double standard - very slight, fleeting, and peripheral contacts with Russia are under intense scrutiny, while Hillary's very substantial, extended, and lucrative contacts with Russia are ignored. Which is realistically a fair observation.

OTOH - YOU'RE preoccupied with the legally meaningless bit of popular-vote fluff. Meanwhile, there's a whole set of concerns that Hillary didn't address across the entire country, that caused people to not vote for her across the entire country.



It's an interesting map. I would have expected Chicago to be far more prominent. I would not have expected Mississippi and the Carolinas to be as prominent.

There's probably good party information to be gleaned from it. For example, California has a very capable and popular democratic governor. And the governor of Louisiana is also a democrat, as is the governor of N Carolina. OTOH the governor of Illinois, the state where Chicago hardly makes a dot on the map, is republican. It's a pretty good topography of how democrats lost state governorships, state legislative houses, the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:10 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

If I were to get anything out of Trump's tweets, it's that he's being subjected to a double standard - very slight, fleeting, and peripheral contacts with Russia are under intense scrutiny, while Hillary's very substantial, extended, and lucrative contacts with Russia are ignored. Which is realistically a fair observation.

OTOH - YOU'RE preoccupied with the legally meaningless bit of popular-vote fluff. Meanwhile, there's a whole set of concerns that Hillary didn't address across the entire country, that caused people to not vote for her across the entire country.

Whatever happened to the Trump who said “You have 40 days until the election. You have 40 days to make every dream you ever dreamed for your country come true.” He’d “fulfill every single wish” they have for his presidency.

Conservatives aren’t supposed to tell the public they’ll “make possible every dream you’ve ever dreamed.” On the contrary, at a root, almost crude level, conservatives believe in telling the masses, “Everyone can’t have everything.”

More to the point, the right’s core beliefs dictate that it’s ridiculous for the public to even look to the state and political leaders to fulfill their dreams.

And yet, here’s a Republican presidential candidate, who has no real understanding of what he’s talking about, effectively saying the opposite: Everyone can, in fact, have everything, and a President Trump will make it happen.

Did Trump forget?

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.




Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


1kiki, unanimously Congress does not agree with you about Trump/Russia:

Congress to Pass Trump-Proof Russia Sanctions

The House and Senate have reached a deal on a bill that would impose new financial sanctions on Russia and allow Congress to review and veto any attempt by President Trump, or President Pence, to independently ease those sanctions in the future. The Senate, looking to punish the Kremlin for meddling in last year’s presidential election, passed a version of the bill by a nearly unanimous margin in June, but it has been stalled in the House for weeks due to procedural issues, pressure from industry groups, and a White House bent on weakening the proposed congressional-review power. On Saturday, however, negotiators from the House and Senate ironed out a deal that did not include the changes the Trump administration wanted.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/congress-reaches-deal-on-
trump-proof-russia-sanctions.html

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:20 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So?

Congress voted us into Iraq. Congress passed many 'free-trade' bills. Congress does a lot of backwards things. Just because Congress does something doesn't make it wise and necessary.

Aside from cringing - again - over something really stupid that Congress has done - again - why should I care?





Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So?

Congress voted us into Iraq. Congress passed many 'free-trade' bills. Congress does a lot of backwards things. Just because Congress does something doesn't make it wise and necessary.

Aside from cringing - again - over something really stupid that Congress has done - again - why should I care?

The Evidence is sufficient for Congress to override Trump's power to set policy with Russia, even if insufficient to impeach Trump. And if I am not forgetting, you wanted Trump because he would ease tensions with Russia. Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite. WWIII over Ukraine and Crimea, here we come!

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:43 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


On exactly the same kind of 'evidence' (ie repeated assertion without basis) that got us into Iraq.

I see Congress doesn't learn from past grievous mistakes.

Now, since I was completely against the war in Iraq because my bullshit alarm was going off non-stop, I've learned to trust my bullshit alarm.

And my bullshit alarm indicates this is bullshit.






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
On exactly the same kind of 'evidence' (ie repeated assertion without basis) that got us into Iraq.

I see Congress doesn't learn from past grievous mistakes.

Now, since I was completely against the war in Iraq because my bullshit alarm was going off non-stop, I've learned to trust my bullshit alarm.

And my bullshit alarm indicates this is bullshit.

But the Iraq War actually happened; do you want a war with Russia, with Putin playing the role of Saddam Hussein, except this time Saddam really does have weapons of mass destruction? Congress can make that happen because all they need is the Secretary of Defense siding with Congress against Trump.

Repeating, you wanted Trump because he would ease tensions with Russia. Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite. WWIII over Ukraine and Crimea, here we come!

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:16 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite.
Trump has nothing to do with it. The Deep State got us the Iraq War, it's going to get us the Russian Mother of All Wars. The same Deep State anus that Hitlery had her lips firmly pressed to. The same Deep State that illegally unmasked US names, the same Deep State that gave us 'golden showers', the same Deep State that lies CONSTANTLY about the supposed agreement of 'all' (which apparently means 4 out of 17) intelligence agencies about Russia, the same Deep State that funds and arms ISIS - as exposed by Benghazi, the same Deep State that's been the source of an endless stream of anonymous and unverified claims against Trump ... and on and on and on.

But whatever.

You seem to believe that just because the bullshit comes from a side you like better, it makes it smell better. You seem to think your partisanship makes everything right. So just keep on cheerleading the effort like you've been doing the whole time.

I hope you're happy with how it's all working out.






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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